The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

1. Trust, Neuroscience & The Customer Experience w/ Ed Powers

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If your customers can’t trust you, how long will you stay in business?

Probably not long. You’ll dwindle, flounder, and grasp for meaning and a customer base, but at the end of the day, if your customers don’t feel like they can trust you, you may as well close up shop.

You're, listening to the customerexperience podcast a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businessesrestore a personal human touch throughout the customer life cycle, getready to hear how sales, marketing and customer success experts surprise anddelight and never lose sign of their customers. Humanity here is your hostEcan Beaute, hey thanks! So much for playing thisepisode. Glad you're listening in I'm really glad that you're here and I'mglad to have our guest this week, ed powers who I know as a long timeconsultant into software companies into the SASS space around how to reduceturm but specifically, among other things, he's got an amazing frameworkfor building real human relationships at scale. Ed Welcome to the customerexperience podcast! Thank Se. You thin great to be with you. That's mybackground with you, but you've got certainly a more nuanced andinteresting background that I shared there. Can you just let folks know whoyou are where you coming from, and what you're up to sure you fon? Well, I'vebeen in business about thirty years, or so I have spent some time in sales andmarketing. I was in operations and quality, I've run organizations and startups bigcompanies, and I spent about fifteen years or so in consulting and thesedays, I'm back in an operations role at a company and South Denver called andtelesecure and we're in the managed it security business. So that's a littlebit about me and right now we were talking before I'm in the midst ofwriting a Buk, so that's been kind of a hobby of mine. That's awesome! I is thetheme of the book similar to kind of where we're going to take thisconversation today. Yeah. Absolutely the book is really about the customerexperience and applying neuroscience to that. So how do you make your customerexperience brain friendly and how does that warm up your interactions and howdoes that drive, customer, rettention...

...and loyalty, cool, I'm sure trust. Youknow when we talk about building relationships, tat, scale and andneuroscience and brain friendly. I'm sure trust is the essence of this. Canyou just paint a broad picture about where we're going to go over the nextfifteen to twenty minutes? Yeah Trust is, you know, I'm sure everybody'sheard the addage. You know people do business with people, they know likeand trust, and you know it's intuitively obvious that that's thecase, but there's also some interesting empirical data. That also supports thatthereve been some studies among the the loyalty researchers that really showwhen customers are buying something a product or a service and there's a riskassociated with that they tend to rely much more strongly on their sense oftrust and trust is kind of the blue in our social environment, of whether it'syou know an intimate person that we have in our lives or businessassociates or friends. You know you need to trust them. So we'll talk a lotabout about that whole idea. Sure so trust is one of those words kind oflike customer experiences where I say it and you know what it means, but youmight have a different understanding or definition forth, an somebody else. Howdo you in the in the context tof this conversation? How do you define trustlike what are it's key components? Yeah and- and I really like the thedefinition- that of trust being a willingness to accept vulnerability orrisk when you work with someone, so it's it's your comfort level right thatthat you can be vulnerable. You can be your true self, you can say somethingwithout repercussions, you're not going to be judged. You know so so trust is really this. The sense of comfort, safety andsecurity working with someone else and the psychologist say that it reallybreaks down into three major components: it's ability, benevolence and integrityand ability is competency. You know, consistency and behavior. Benevolenceis caring for someone that there's...

...there's genuine commitment to sharegoals and integrity. Is, you know, doing the right thing, even thoughsometimes it can be the hard thing. So the the example that I use is, you knowthink of your doctor right and so is. Do you trust your doctor? Well, let's,let's run the litmus test, is she a good healer? Does she genuinely careabout? She was a person that just a patient- and you know if you have tohave a difficult conversation. is she going to shoot straight with you and ifthe answers yes and all of those conditions, you probably trust yourdoctor right? That's a great example, and I love those three elements thatyou broke out there again ability benevolence and integrity does justsound like the words I would associate with someone I like yeah, exactly andapparently trust, and so you know when these things arethere's a process thereright like. I need to sense the benevolence in you, even if I don'tassign those words in my mind to you and my experience with you and that'sjust one of the three components. How do we come to trust each other? How dowe build this in people's minds through experience? Yeah, it's a great questionand there's been some my interesting neuroscience on that. You know we talkabout earning someone's trust right. Well, we actually learn about trust.Trust is a learning process and, like you say it comes through the experience.There's a neural scientist by the name of Luke Chang, who did a interesting experiment usingsomething called the trust game and the trust game is a is an economicexperiment that has been around for a number of years and it's like aninvestment game. So you work with other players in this game and you investmoney with these other players and it pays a big return, but some playerswill return that money back to you. I take your money, they invest you'll,see what they get back. Some of them will share it back and then other oneswill keep it for themselves. Right know what they do. Is They that you playthis game over and over again and you...

...learn which which partner istrustworthy in which one is not and the proxy for that is the amount of moneyyou invest with that person. So in that experiment, what they do is they reagthe game? Of course? And you know they have some players that are, and youknow, will return the money, eighty percent of the time and others thatwill return only twenty percent of the time and through the course of playingthe game you kind of learn. While this person I can trous that person, I can'ttrust and you can actually see that it actually, when you measure the amountof money, that's invested, low and behold, it's a reinforcement. Learningis that through those experiences you learn who can be trusted and who can'tand one thing that Chang also studied, which is really interesting. He has amathematical model that shows as very predictable and there's two elements tothis. There's there's what you learn over time and there's what you learndinitially. What do you believe about kind, ofthe person and whach? Youbelieve, tends to set the stage for how you behave throughout that experience.With that other person, it's really interesting, so Lupe Chang. If you wantto look him up Cha Ng. So if one component is where we start and theother component is, is what we learn through experience. What is the, wheredo we get our initial beliefs about trust? I have to assume that variesacross the population to some people probably grow up in much more trustingenvironments. I'm sure some of it is deeply instinctual and part of thehuman experience we're in general. We our initial baseline starting points.You know, for example, I think about tipping when I met a restaurant. Istarted twenty percent. If someone does an amazing job at Gro, up to twentyfive or even thirty percent, and if it's terrible, they might go down tofifteen percent, I'm really not the ten percent guy. So I have a baseline andthings get better or worse, and I feel like that's what you're talking abouthes people have some kind of an initial belief for a baseline for how trustingthey are of other people. Where does that come from yeah? Like you say lot,some of it is environmental and theieare individual differences andsome people genuinely and more trusting and there's actually there's an agetopendency as well as the older you get,...

...the more tresting you are, which isinteesting but but generally we use. You know the Braian lacks a lot ofshortcuts and ittends to use what other information, what whatever informationis available at the time to make these initial assessments, but we always doit automatically. We do it subconsciously. If you were to knowsomebody you know like you know, the Mafia is always this person is a friendof ours or as a friend of mine and because of the association you knowfrom someone else you you set expectations about that other personbased upon what you hear from someone that you trust. So that's one way, butin this case there was something really interesting and researches have knownthis. For quite some time is that just showing someone of face is enough toset a trust expectation about someone else, so just showing a faceis isimportant ind. What they found was that, just by showing a face, a smily face oran angry face that alters people's behavior there. I forms an initialtrust belief, so it doesn't take very much at all to get someone to set like a littlecondition in their brain and e. Once they have that thet lanker, then they,then they work with that anchor just like in your tipping example. Excellent.So obviously, then this is a deep part of the human experience. I have toimagine that our billy to judge based on faces and have impressions based onfaces as part of our deep survival instinct or something like that. how DT was what are the dynamics behind access to the human face and and allthe things that it triggers in US yeah it's interesting. It's one of the firstfills we ever learn as an infant right before we can talk, we can recognizefaces, and so we're hardwired for that and they've shown that in less than ahundred millon seconds, which is about three times faster you, then you canblink your eye. You process a face, ind. What you do is you look at the eyes andthe mouth, and what you're really...

...looking for is their emotional state.We attribute an expression to an emotional state in the eyes of themouth, are very descriptive for us and we can instantly tell as this personthis new person that I'm seeing for the first time is this aur friend Erfo. Toway is this person going to do me good or are they going to do me harm andthat we have wiring in our brain? That goes to our Ourmingala, which is ourour fear, detector and Ar also imprints on our memory. So we immediately makethis association by looking at the face. Then we say I can trust that person.That person looks a little shady to me and we do it subconsciouslyautomatically. Whenever we see a face like instantly yep yeah, that's you.You give me new language and new understanding for something I've knownand even taught before, which is that human emotion expression through theface is both universal in a nate. We all do it from birth, that's Theanapart, and we all do it across history. Across cultures across societies, weall do it the same way. So even if someone is sitting with a translatorand the translator hasn't hasn't translated the person's words to youfrom another language, you still have a sense of you know: Are they angry? Are theyclear or they excited? Are they happy etce? So we do a lot of work in videoat bombomb here and so something a lot of people run into, because obviouslythe implication. What you're saying is in our businesses, sharing our faces ina variety of ways. More often is going to be a benefit to us, but a lot ofpeople get hung up on. I got a face for radio kind of stuff talk about that right. So for someonewho lacks the confidence to appear more often, whether in video or whether inphotos or whatever live, video chats or video emails or whatever talk aboutthat dynamic does. Did this any face, work yeah, actually any face does workand it's funny they can even they've done experiments where they're, justthree dots right. There's the two dots...

...where the eyes are the little dot forthe mouth, and we recognize that kind of face. That's how hardwire we are.You know we ever when you see the front grill on a car. You see a face or ys.You know a rock formation or clouds you see at face, so we were hyper sensitiveto look to interpret anything that looks like a face, but in terms of oftrust, it's really the expression and not not the the nature of the faceitself unless you're dating, of course. Now, if you're dating there is somescience that shows people like symmetry in the face and people will fixate onthat and whatever. But if that's not your goal, you just need to look intothe camera. You know I straight ahead and smile and that's really all that'snecessary to create a sense of trust. I love that I'm going to be scanningthe environment for faces even more intentionally now than I was before youintroduced that, but I've experienced all the things you describe in cloudsand rocks and things what are the business implications here so just tokind of connect the dots as we wind up. You shared a lot of compelling research.I think all of it makes sense you've spoken directly to the one of thethings that motivated me to start this podcast in the first places you Kno,where does the human belong in the customer experience, whether it's atangible product or an intangible product or the or the product, isn'texperience itself? Button is down a little bit around this research whereoes this point, what can someone do differently over the next day or weekor month, or what can they teach their team? You know how might we operatedifferently in light of this information at sure, and it's you knowwhat's interesting in these economic experiments and again these arelaboratory conditions where they measure things and they control thevariables, but in the laboratory environment they have found by sharingby showing a face that cooperation or the trustworthiness in theseinteractions increases about fifteen to twenty percent depending upon theexperiment, and there's been a lot of experiments that have kind of verifiedthis idea. So if you could just show your face and get fifteen to twentypercent higher cooperation with a...

...prospect or customer, that's a slam dot.Why not right it's a simple thing that gives you a little bit of an edge inthat fifteen to twenty percent? Maybe all you need, so what I tell people is,you know, put your face everywhere, put your face on your website. Put it inyour signature line and your email. You know if you have like little mailorcars put a face on that. You know we all look at social media. We look atfacebook. Well, do we look at? Do we read stuff? Now we look for thepictures of the people and t that we know we are attracted to those faces sowherever you can put your face out there and that's what I really loveabout Ambam, what you guys are doing, because it's really incapsulating this and it's it's makingit easier for people to show their faces and to tell their story, and inthe very beginning, when you're building a relationship you want tohave every advantage, you can to set that bit to get people to have thatinitial trust, belief and the more you do that the more you get on the rightpath. Now, at the end of the day, you have to still act in a trustworthyfashion. Right ability of benevolence and integrity are all very important ifyou, if you yourself or you, work with your company who is incompitent ortheir, you know their cheaters or whatever the truth comes out and peoplewill learn their lesson. They'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but intime you know they're Goin, to they're going to wake up to the way that youare. So you obviously the way you look has to match your actions at the end ofthe day, that's what's ultimately important, but getting that initialnudge getting that initial direction forward, gitting you that thatappointment that you're, seeking with that new prospect. All of these littlethings add up and put you in a position to be successful. It's excellentintegrity, my language on integrity is consistency. Ind Word indeed, you know.Are you going to do the things that you promise, whether there's or promises onyour website or promises on the phone or promises that you can actually getcustomer support when you need it etcetera? So these things really add upability, benevolence and integrity. There are a lot of ways to do it, butultimately the experience should be at...

...some points. Human and I think Ed Ioueshared a lot of really great recommendations and great research onthe importance of this human aspect, which is trust based and obviouslydeeply embedded in our in our psyches or anything. You want to rap on to wrapup with her anything. You want to share with folks that we maybe didn't touchon. No, I think, that's it, and I really. I appreciate you going downthis path, ething, because you know a lot of times. We get, we get wrappedaround the Axellen, metrics and processes and deliverables andcontracts, and you know we do lose sight of this human. This human natureand business is all about people. It's all about the. How do we experienceeach other? How do we learn and grow and learn to trust each other and dobusiness and hopefully do business again? You know that's. That is a humanprocess and we need to pay very close attention to that. So I would justrecommend to your listeners to give it a try. You know, take a run at it. What,since I've been talking about this people have come back and said you knowI gave that a go. It's unscientific, but man, it just feels differentcustomers seem to respond a little bit better. So I would say you wout to go.That's excellent! Thank you! A if someone wants to connect with you EDand build some no like and trust with you. What are some of the easiest waysfor anyone to connect with you? Well, I'm available on Linkedin I connect topeople all the time I send out a little. You know storiesabout this little snippets and I'm in the middle of writing a book. Sohopefully, when I do that I'll, let you know when that's available and but definitely linked in, as is a goodway to connect great ed powers. Thank you. So much for your time today on thecustomer Experience Podcast, I will definitely have you back when you'reable to button down that book, because thereare a lot of topics, I'd love totalk with you about that. We didn't even get to touch on today. So Iappreciate your time so much and have a great rest of your week, thanksYouv, when I appreciate it as a lot of fun, you're listening to the customerexperience podcast, no matter your role...

...in delivering value and servingcustomers, you're intrusting, some of your most important and valuablemessages to faceless digital communication. You can do betterrehumonize. The experience by getting face to face through simple personalvideos, learn more and get started. Free at Bombomcom you've been listeningto the customer experience podcast to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player or visit Bom bomcom.Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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