The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

103. Building Relationships With Your Customers’ Customers w/ James Lloyd


Two sets of customers don’t equal just two customer experiences. Customer experiences are myriad — especially in B2B healthcare technology, where your customers can grow 5x in a month.


In this episode, I interview James Lloyd, Co-Founder and CTO at Redox, about serving both his customers (healthcare software vendors) and his customers’ customers (health systems).


James talked with me about:


- Managing multiple user experiences


- What healthcare can learn from other markets & vice versa


- The wild & mysterious world of telehealth


- What is the cynefin framework, anyway?


Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

We are all patients and we reallythink about it is how can we make sure that the best minds in theworlder are working on helping solving healthcare? The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learnhow sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomesand exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customerexperience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte, managing multiple customer experiences,designing a buyers journey for tech tools and infrastructure, adapting key technologies and buildingteam resilience during and post pandemic. That some of what will walk through todaywith a gentleman who holds three bachelor's degrees, one in German, one in mathematicsand one in physics. He's the cofounder and chief technology officer at redoxengine, the modern API for healthcare, or for their home page right now, the simplest way for vendors and provider organizations to exchange health data. JamesLloyd, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Yeah, thanks so much for havingme. Yeah, so you recently moved from, was it Madison,Wisconsin? Today, compared to your expectations six months in, what is betterabout Denver than you expected and what is maybe surprising or perhaps even disappointing relativeto your expectations? So the thing that's better is I really as a visitor, you don't quite get to value the proximity to the mountains of just likean everyday type experience, and so I've been loving the access to nature andthe weather that we have here. And then what's surprising is just everything thatcomes with living in a slightly larger city. I think I'm pretty much right downtownin Denver and you know in Madison as a basically a college town ofa few hundred thousand people. And Yeah, there's just there's lots of interesting thingsgoing on all the time, some awesome, some less awesome, andyeah, so just the just the the lifestyle of being in a larger cityhas been has been one of the surprises, for sure cool. On the upside, traffic is probably amazing right now relative to when you moved here.On the downside, that will ramp up while everything gets even more interesting anddynamic. For a year in a great spot. It's fantastic and I hope, you know, when it's more safe and fun and cool to spend timewith people in person, I'll come up and see you something. Yeah,so you are the first CTO on the show and I'm really excited to havea customer experience conversation with a cofounder and CTO, not that that's exclusively whatdefines you, but to get started, when I say customer experience to you, what does that mean? What does... conjure? Yeah, so forme the customer experience goes every you know, really starts with the upfront expectations anddesires of the folks who maybe may have a problem and that they're lookingto solve, and then all the way through the experience of leveraging our productsin our platform and and ensuring that their lives get a little bit easier andthat we can have an impact in the world as well. So maybe alittle bit of something that's kind of interesting about about Riadocks, as we viewourselves as a as a platform where our users are typically software developers, butwhen we think about customers overall, we think about the companies that are creatingtechnology and healthcare, as well as the patients that are involved in receiving care, as well as the organizations and providers who are servicing and providing that care. So we have inevative kind of whose maybe paying us. We view ourkind of ecosystem is involving lots of customers who all have an experience that we'retrying to drive. That's awesome. I love the problem orientation in particular thatyou introduced. I don't think there's enough conversation about that, although you knowyou hear in pockets, and I appreciate in particular the idea that you aretaking into account kind of the customers, of your direct customers, and includingthem, as you know, obviously fellow stakeholders in the problem solution dynamic thatyou're in with your customers, that to say customers to ready times there andyou already, you already took one step toward it, but go ahead andlean into it further. For people who aren't familiar, tell us a littlebit more about Redos, like who is your ideal customer or customers, andwhat problem do you solve for them? Absolutely so. reducks is a dataand techchnology platform in the healthcare space and we really help technology vendors get theirservices and technology in the hands of patients and providers and as lightweight and lowfriction way as possible. And one of the things that's kind of interesting abouthealthcare, and I'm sure many of the listeners have have maybe unfortunately run acrosssome of these problems as patients, but the healthcare world, and especially thedata world within healthcare, is is fairly fragmented. Every hospital, every healthsystem runs their own data center, highly customized, highly bespoken, antiquated infrastructureand systems in play. And as a technology vendor in this space, ifyou want to scale your products to many customers, which would be many hospitalsor health systems, managing all of those complexities and all of that bespoke natureof each of those systems can be really challenging, and so one of theways that we help reduce that friction is... providing a single API and developerexperience for the technology vendors so they can connect to our platform once and thenwe have a robust network and way to kind of standardize all of those differentinstance of all the different health systems. So we work with about eight hundredor so health systems today, which roughly equates to about twenty to twenty fivepercent of the the overall kind of US landscape and we have about three hundredor so software vendors that are their customers of ours and they range everywhere fromten person company to Fortune One hundred type companies. And Yeah, so thoseare those are kind of who we typically work with. But in general werewe really love working with folks who are making the world a better place forpatients or providers and really delivering innovative technology to the healthcare landscape. And ourgoal is really to take on as much of the burden of building a productand healthcare so that the folks who are working at those vendors can can reallyfocus on their end users and their value props and not have to worry aboutthe complexities of just dealing with healthcare. It's really the interesting when so thecompany is what, six and a half years old ish? Yeah, aroundthat. Yeah, we we have an interesting starting story then probably. Well, I wouldn't way. What I was going to ask specifically is, Imean this is obviously a problem and it's a very, very big one.So at the outset, you know, how did you view the scene andwhat were some of the kind of like the primary motivators will like what wereyou running after at the time and it has that evolved over time, andhas your view of the customer evolved over that time as well? So shareanything you want on that, like like go back to the beginning. Whatwhat were you trying to do with the time, and how has your perspectivechanged over the past six years or so? Because, again, I really likethis idea of respecting your customers, customers, because that is the trueway to be a partner with your customer rather than just a vendor, isto take on their problems, take on their opportunities and really help them servetheir customers more effectively. I really appreciate that. What I'm wondering is,is that how you thought about a six and a half years ago? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So. When we first got started, myself andthe two other CO founders, we actually worked at a large electronic health recordcompany. So this is the this is the type of software that doctors andnurses are typing your allergies and diagnosis into, you know, eight ten hours aday, and learned a lot about the the environment and also the waythat those folks were not being really well supported by by technology. And youknow, at that point a lot of the health healthcare technology industry looked alot like the productivity space in say, the early two thousands, where youjust got everything from Microsoft. You Got Outlook and word and access and exchangeserver and everything like. You just got... all bundled together. And aswe saw the the world going through the Gmail and then you have targeted appsfor each thing and you use a sauna and it connects to your the allthe other tools with apis. There was a sort of hypothesis that that thatkind of shift would also take place in healthcare because the demands that the providersand patients were having we're evolving quicker than the kind of large, monolithic softwarevendors could could keep up with. And so our initial kind of first stepinto this was to actually start a healthcare technology accelerator. So we were tryingto be part of helping proliferate all these new very targeted applications and we didthat for about a year before we realize that we could not figure out howto make any money bring an accelerator. We had to pay rent and buyfood and stuff like that. But through the process we learned that. Welearned some some of the challenges to scaling a company and we saw, wesorry about ten different companies, since we saw all their challenges all the andone of the biggest areas was just how do we how do we connect sharethis information? And so as we were starting the accelerator, we and thebackground were building a suite of technology for all those accelerator companies to use.And as we are kind of coming to conclusion we probably needed to just becomea single company rather than running an accelerator, we were looking around and saying,so we just join one of these companies that we have the accelerator orwhat? And then the idea of becoming actually the technology platform company. It'sas the company itself kind of went out because we had we already had abit of product market fit, because we're scratching our own itch, and wehad a bunch of mentors that we had built up in the accelerator and theyall told us like all, yes, is a each problem, you gotto go solve it. And so from from kind of day one, theidea was standardization will provide efficiency in a way that new entrance to the marketwill be okay with it. They'll want to be told this is this isthe right way to do it and there's only one way to do it.And through that kind of standardization and building a network around that agreed upon andkind of canonical language, we can really unlock and really lower the baried entryto a lot of the integration space. And then the other ideas was wasthat this should be really, really simple to use. Like we want peoplewho do not have a masters and healthcare administration needed to be able to developagainst the API and healthcare as a ton the jargon and it's you know,there's no there's a lot of actual complexing to it. Right it takes peopletwenty years to get a to get an empty or something like that. Sowe're trying to abstract and simplify as much as possible so that the folks arebuilding our platform can do it safely but also do it really easily. It'scool. And what are the disc what are the disciplines of your two othercofounders? Are they? ARE THEY TECH ORIENTED? Are they? Do youhave like a kind of just kind of a natural leader who love software?Do you have like a sales like?...

Who are your cofounders and yeah,that stage. Yeah, so all three of us are still really heavily engagedin that in the company today. So Luke is our CEO and he's reallyengaged on the outside like the finance, operations kind of management and and andpeople side of the company. And then Niko is our is our other cofounder, and he's really externally facing and market oriented and has a background in economics. So he's sort of is an interesting combination of both are really academically orientedeconomist as well as sort of like the frontman of the band, and heused to do all the pitches and and everything like that, and so thesedays he's he runs our podcast actually, and he also, you know,engages with government groups on upcoming standards, regulation and and there's a lot ofthat kind of externally facing activity as well. So in early on we we definitelyall did every role and so it's but those are sort of kind ofwhere we where we focus today. Cool. It sounds like a really nice balanceand congratulations on, you know, getting this far. It's obviously ahuge need and I think, on behalf of people listening who don't quite knowall the guts behind their experience with with medical providers. I'm sure they appreciateany of the friction you've removed. So let's get into the kind of buyersjourney piece of it. You know, you have a go to market andso I'm clear, and so listeners are clear. Are you primarily like isyour is, for example, your sales team or sales and marketing? Arethey primarily going out to the other software companies, or are they going outto the healthcare systems or both? And talk about like again, kind ofjust generically speaking, buyers journey for technical tools and infrastructure. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So we've definitely had a number of experiments and lessons learned andkind of varieties of answers to this question. But what we do today and kindof our bread and butter is through engaging directly with the software vendors asas kind of who were our go to market. Motion is really towards thetowards the software vendors, but we really think about it actually as kind ofa fly wheel and and sort of really the first entry point is with bringinga new software vendor onto our platform, and so that's why we as wewe market into our sales but we really think about it more as once thatsoftware vendors on our platform, they will then work with one of their customers, which will be a hell system, and as part of that we willbuild a relationship with that health system as well, and then we'll learn aboutsome of their needs, some of their upcoming vendors that may be struggling ormay meet our services. We can engage with them and then those software vendorsmight bring us to other health systems, and so there's sort of a feedbackloop that that can develop as part of...

...that. And so now when wethink about account management or customer success, then it starts to get really pointedin both directions, where we want to like, help folks scale and havetheir technology and business strategy aligned with what we're seeing, and you know,we have really aligned in symtoms of helping those vendors scale, but we alsoreally want to work with a hell systems to make sure that their initiatives forthe year or whatever maybe, can be well served by the by the groupsthat we work with, and help them get those easily as well. SuperInteresting. I can see a scenario where you are partnered with a software vendor, they they land a new health system but I would guess that within yourecosystem there are probably that that health system might be using two, two orthree other technologies that are part of your platform that they maybe didn't know thatthey could connect them all. That's that's right. And this, this iswhere the benefit of the sort of network approach really really takes hold. Ishistorically this would have been in a dozens of ours project for somewhat at thathealth system each time and through what we do there's there's a decent amount ofusability and efficiency that comes from just kind of amortizing that initial work with thehell system across all the different vendors that they could want to work with.Really interesting. I see immediate parallels with some of the partnership and integration workthat we do here at bomb bomb through our our VP of partnerships and integrations, Rebecca's Foma, and this kind of again, I mean I don't networkeffect flywheel type thing where now all the sudden we are of more value tothe customer. A we get to meet our partners customers and, if should, they participate with both of us were now more valuable to that customer thaneither one of us was individually. I see the benefits of it right away. I would assume that you have friends were involved in a variety of otherroles in businesses. What are some of the parallels here from the way thatyou're approaching this in healthcare? If you talked with other people just to kindof walk this out and make it even more mainstream to people working in awide variety of businesses? Of course I see the parallel right away, butyou know, have you had that type of conversation with some of your friendsor colleagues in other businesses? Yeah, yeah, so maybe maybe one ofthe best analogies that I can think of outside of healthcare would be a companycalled plaid, which is in the the financial technology space and they're a littlebehind the scenes to and really focused on developers as users as well. Butif you've used a product like theven mo or Robin Hood or any of those, whenever you're transacting the money from that APP to your bank and back andforth, that's actually plaid behind the scenes, and so they're they're kind of managingall these APPs on one side and all the banks on the other sideand kind of playing that network role, and I think they we're doing somethingfairly similar, but from, you know, patients and providers on one side andall systems on and hospitals on the...

...other side. So it's that thatmay be a maybe a different industry with an interesting analog. Yeah, I'mgoing to kind of bounce back a few minutes here. You talked about kindof a CS or account management approach to both sets of customers. Is thatone team? Is that different teams, or is it like from a functionalstandpoint, because it's so interesting. Again, this is kind of that multiple customerexperiences piece. Like for us, will sell one account to one solopreneur or whatever they're doing. But we also set out. We have,I think our biggest account is, you know, twenty five hundred seats orso and literally everything in between. So when we organized see us around that. Obviously we have kind of groups of customers that have kinship in either sizeor industry or that type of thing, use cases, etc. And that'sjust a matter of you know, that's it seems to me, less ofan obvious cut, because some of the cuts are arbitrary, but here you'retalking about two different communities and you're truly serving them in two different ways.To the degree that you're getting people who have some exposure familiarity in that businessor industry. Obviously that background is going to be a little bit different,or those totally separate functions or like how what's the interface there? Yeah,yeah, so we we have one customer success organization and within that team thereis actually specialization, but they can kind of float between between as needed.And there's actually three areas of specialization, where focusing on hell systems is oneside and then within the vendor side there's actually we actually split it into twobuckets as well one and it's really based on who our champion and stakeholders atthe vendor are. One of the interesting things about our businesses. Sometimes it'svery financially or business driven, you know, maybe the buyer or the champion mightbe vp of sales or someone like that, and then in other casesit's very technologist driven, somebody who's looking for a component to their infrastructure,and it can be a VP of engineering or VP of product who's driving it. Those are very different customer success engagements. So if you do a quarterly businessreview, do you do a quarterly architecture review? And and so wekind of split it on on those angles as as well from a customers ofthe standpoint. Cool, let's talk about your customers, customers the healthcare experiencewhere obviously in the middle of the pandemic, who know? I mean it continuesto take twist in terms for recording this, if is you're listening orrecording this, you know, midsummer, late July. I think it'll releasein several weeks. So just I offer that for context for folks, becausethis is a dynamic situation. But obviously there are so there's some higher leveltruths that transcend any kind of immediate day to day, week to week trendsin cases and that type of a thing. Talk a little bit about what you'veobserved in, you know, with these multiple customers in terms of,I guess, pandemic era healthcare experience.

What are some key trends there andmaybe how are you responding or how are your customers responding? Yeah, absolutely, so it's been. It's been really interesting. As a kind of aplatform company, we have sort of a portfolio of applications that are customers ofours and they service all variety of problems in the healthcare space, from patientbuilding to reducing time and the weight room to doing diagnostics and doing telehealth visitsand things like that. And there are pockets of our customer base that haveseen really massive growth and demand over this period. So folks who are doingdiagnostic Su testing for Covid, folks who are doing tell a health for doctorswhere you used to have to go into the clinic and now you can doit over a video and folks are doing remote patient monitoring to make sure patientswho got discharged are still fine at home and don't need to come back in. Things like that are really growing in demand. We've seen some of ourcustomers grow literally x in the course of a month, things like that,whereas some of the other maybe some of the efficiency folks or some of thefolks who are less oriented towards the response to Covid, have seen a bitof a slowdown in the in their demand. And so for us it's been aninteresting kind of concentration of demand within a certain part of our certain subsetof our of our platform. And then on the health system side, andknow a little bit, unfortunately, a lot of what has slowed down haswe're also the primary profit centers for the health system. So health systems arenot doing great financially right now and many of them have had to furlough someof their administrative staff, which means that the folks that we too typically engagewith either on the IT team or to get that initial kind activity and integrationset up with the hell system, maybe strapped or maybe not even there rightnow. So there's been some some interesting kind of rink wrinkles coming up withthat. But yeah, I think the the folks who are folks who weredirectly engaged, are are definitely growing, going fast and having a having apretty large impact from from our perspective. So yeah, it's been it's beenreally interesting having these conversations through this period. Obviously in healthcare has come up before, obviously not as intensely as this this conversation, but you know,it's been interesting in that, you know, as talking with Brian Gilman, who'sadvantage and they help people kind of essentially move a lot of activity tothe cloud and you know, we're talking about something that we've observed here atbombomb to which, especially with larger companies that are thinking about adopting our technology, which allows you to record and send video messages, which you know,it was useful five years ago or eight years ago just as it is today. But people feel that need or that that desire much more acutely. Andso some of our larger deals that were kind of stalled, like for anyof a variety of reasons that large,...

...larger deals tend to stall, multipledecision makers, etc. Just like all of a sudden back on the fasttrack, like people that kind of ghosted you a week or two or threeback all of a sudden can't get enough of the conversation. They want tomove it forward, forward, forward, and so what have you seen againwith either kind of customer group in terms of the resilience required in this periodand or the rapid adoption of technology and particular, if you made any observationsthere, because I'm hearing this kind of in conversation. A lot of peopleare like that. We're maybe on the fence or we're unclear. Are Allof a sudden go, go, go, and in some cases you have todo it yesterday. Kind of yeah, yeah, I think. I thinkthat's especially true in healthcare. I've I've seen some folks say, youknow, things on twitter and stuff like that that like in healthcare technologies advancedmore in the past three months and it did in the past decade before that, and I think a lot of that is because of, you know,the old additive necessity is the mother of innovation, and we have a crisisto respond to and everybody's stepping up to the plate. We have a lotof customers who've, like in a weekend, made a drive through testing application whenthey don't do anything like that normally, and so there's been a lot ofnew innovation there and I think also a lot of the change control andPolicy and governance and procedures that normally exist within the health system. And forgood reason, just, you know, because of the critical nature of thecrisis. Of they've they've been we don't need to put this through a monthlong review before we just start using it, and so that's that's really leaped frogsome of those some of those processes as well. So they both ofthose really contribute to to some of the some of the acceleration. Cool kindof a random question, but it occurred to me of course. Is isyou're talking like, okay, there's a lot of data probably moving through thesesystems. You're obviously intimately involved in that as the connector any tips for peoplewho are considering so, for example, we've had a for a into muchmore regulated industries over the past three years in particular. They want what wedo, but they also like there's some you know, there's a lot ofcompliance. So we're, you know, moved through stack to type two andall that type stuff. Healthcare, of course, is even more intense thanmost businesses, probably even as much or more than financial services, for example. Any tips for people that are looking to move their technology or their softwareinto markets that have even some partial here's partial movement toward the level of regulationand healthcare? Anything that you all have learned along the way or caution?Yeah, or a just like practical tips for people that are looking to moveinto those types of markets? Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I think meif you've gone through something like like a sack to or like a PCI typecompliance. Yeah, those are those are...

...our kind of similar the thing thatI would call out as different is just the the kind of breadth of considerationsaround specific like data fields and getting into HIPPA, which is the kind ofpatient privacy regulation. There's a lot of things that are considered Phi, whichis protected health information and and so being sensitive about that and sometimes it caneven go further than that and go into there. What are they sharing?kind of permissions between different users and conductor see things that nurses can't and andsome of some of that kind of user level like role base, kind ofcontrols, and so I would say all of that is definitely going to bein play if you start to get into into the healthcare space. And thenthe other the other thing that I think is often daunting for folks coming intohealthcare is just the the breadth of the just the breadth of data fields ingeneral. Right, so if you're in financial technology, you have like accountnumber, a transaction amount, who it went from, who went to,and there's there's there's, you know, you're sort of thinking on the orderof like tens of fields maybe, whereas in healthcare, you know there's ahundred thousand different medications, there's three hundred thousand different types of diagnosis and andyou know, I can going on lab tests and allergies and all there's there'sa large set of data to deal with. That just adds a level of complexitythat that is oftentimes folks haven't had to deal with coming from other industriesinteresting again, this another one's kind of random. I think it'll kind ofbring together the conversations that we're having here. You know, typically I'm talking withmarketing leaders, sales leaders, CS leaders, and you have built someof those bridges just through conversation here, but I'd love to give you thechance as someone coming from kind of a product Dev side, Dev side inparticular, what do you wish more folks kind of in in those roles knewor understood about about product and Deev, the process required, the way youthink about customers, anything that comes to mind like in order to again mygoal here is to kind of build the bridge through conversations we can all serveour customers, who were effectively, and so I'd love while I have you, you know anything that you wish more marketing, sales or CS people knewor understood about kind of the tech side of the business? Yeah, absolutely, I think one of the one of the more interesting things could be inthat is a way that the team's just generally operate and quite a different numberof iterations on the types of tasks that they do. So, you know, given salesperson may try to close ten deals this quarter, or maybe youknow may take thirty intro calls this month there, you know, something likethat, whereas for a product engineering team,...

...they may have one initiative for thenext three to six months, and the level of predictability and kind oflaw of large numbers that that can give you some some confidence and certainty andin your forecasting. On the sales, marketing customer success side, like doesn'tquite play out the same way on the product engaging side also, at leastat least for us, a lot of the things that we're doing are likenobody in the world's done it before. Rights their brand new and you gointo and your would have eyes wide open and you try to make sure youmake the right decisions, but you know, you really don't have a baseline interms of what to expect in terms of how hard is this going tobe even or what are the challenges were going to come across in a monthfrom now and things like that. And so I think there's there's actually areally interesting framework. If I have a chance to they on Soap Fox,I'll talk about it. Called Canevin. It's a Welsh word, I think, but it's basically kind of breaks problems into four domains, simple, complicated, complex and chaotic and complex or those ones where you you only know likepoint a from point B, you only know like the outcome once you inhindsight, like you don't really know the path, the best path to take, and a lot of engineering is in that world, whereas a lot ofsales and marketing tends to be in the complicated world where there's lots of stepsbetween amb but you could kind of map them out ahead of time, andI think having that men mental model has been helpful for me to understand andtalk to all the different stakeholders and folks about the kind of the world's leaseeach side live in and kind of purage that gap. So it's awesome.I'm glad I ask that question and in it is. It's interesting, Ithink you know, as you said, I'm like, I totally see it, but I never thought about it in that way before and it's absolutely true. And so I think you know, I guess to use a word thata lot I guess a lot of people are using often now, is isempathy. Know's just some empathy for that, for that process in the lack ofpredictability. It's really interesting approach. I love what you all are upto. You know, one of the ways that we talk about the importanceof customer experience on the show and whenever I talk about it is, youknow, again, some of these dynamics like hyper competition and product parity reallyraising up the importance of the experience we create and deliver for our customers,and I really think you all are at the heart of it. You know, the way you talked about already kind of lowering the barriers to entry andand and allowing things to happen more quickly and seamlessly. It's just it's areally I think it's so important for broad, broad innovation. I think the workthat you're doing is really cool and important. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, and we actually have an internal kind of phrase that we use, which is we are all patients and we really think about it is,how can we make sure that the best minds in the worlder are working onhelping solving healthcare and I bury a sentry make that make that population smaller,and so as much as we can expand the group of people working on atthe better will be cool. I just...

...have to hope that there's someone elsethinking about the insurance side of it, because that part is the most painful. Hey, if you are listening to this episode and you've enjoyed it sofar, I've got a couple more that I know you will like. EpisodeEighty three with Brian Gilman. He's the VP of product and Solutions Marketing Advantage. I already kind of talked about this one in our conversation, but heshared the three pillars for postcris this customer communication, and it was really allof the customer touch points, not like marketing communication. We did talk abouttell a health we talked about content contact centers, we talked about business continuitysome level resilience. That one was a really intense one. And then episodesixty eight with Josh Feedi, who's the founder of a software company called salesreach up in Minneapolis. That one was pret Covid, but we did talkabout creating and delivering better buying experiences, with video in particular. And sothat's episode eighty three with Brian Gilman episode sixty eight with Josh feedy. James, before I let you go, I love to give you two opportunities here. The first is to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact onyour life or your career, and the other is to give a mention ornot, or a shout out to a brand or a company that you reallyrespect for they wait for the way they deliver for you as a customer.Yeah, absolutely so. I think the the person I want to mention isactually a coworker of mine, but he and I go back to a previousemployer and he had an impact on me basically on on day one of myprofessional career. Who and is his name is Andy Kitson. He's currently ourVP of people operations that redocts, but came up through the engineering team andif anybody's interested in having a great speaker on on running a distributed team orbuilding team cultures in a system's way of thinking, he would be a greatperson to reach out to. And then I think the the group that Iwould I'm probably going to try to flip your question a little bit because Iwould like to give a shout out to one of our customers, which isa company called curative. In the past two months we've helped connect them toalmost all of the state public health registries and they are performing hundreds of thousandsof covid tests every week and they're doing amazing work. Killer we need moreof that and we need more data on what's happening when, where, why, how, around the results of those tests, especially from a geographic standpoint. Absolutely yeah, cool. Thank you for flipping that. I appreciate it. If folks have enjoy this conversation they want to follow up with you orReados. Were some places you might send people? Yeah, absolutely. Soyou can reach out to me on on Linkedin. My name is James Lloyd, and then redox's website is Redos enginecom and we also are on twitter.It just at redocks. Yeah, and would love to hear from you ifthere's any way we can help or just have a conversation. Awesome. Wecover a lot of really interesting topics.

I love doing it from your perspectiveas a cofounder and to CTEO. Again, I really appreciate what you're doing toa improve customers experiences and be to open up the doors for more innovationin a space that really, really needs it. So we should continued success. Thank you so much for your time and for folks who were listening.If you want links to some of the things that James mentioned, there,including the gentleman. I've already forgotten his name, but I'm going to I'mgoing to find him and add some links there if you want to reach outto him. So so we always round the stuff up, we put invideo clips, we do a short write up and I had some relevant linksat Bombombcom podcast. That's just bomb bombcomas podcast. Again, thanks, thanksfor listening and thank you, James, for spending time with us. Butyou clear communication, human connection, higher conversion, these are just some ofthe benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easyto do with just a little guidance. So pick up the official book.Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learnmore in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks forlistening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers.Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcastplayer or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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