The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

104. Differentiating Far Beyond Product, Features, or Price w/ Stacy Sherman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You need to acknowledge that employee experience (i.e. happiness) is a bridge to customer experience.

 

In this episode, I interview Stacy Sherman, the Head of Customer Experience & Employee Engagement at Schindler Elevator and the Founder at DoingCXRight, about the EX/CX intersection. 

 

Stacy and I chatted about:

 

- The role of video in EX and CX communication (one of my favorite topics)

 

- The heart and science approach to interest in CX

 

- Why Stacy spends nights and weekends on elevating the customer-centric culture 

 

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

When your employees are really intentional and edit are happy. They then transferred to the customer. The customer sees it and feels it, especially the frontline. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. humanizing Your Business, in differentiating your brand, in differentiating far beyond product features or price. That's the mission of today's guest, and she's got a heart and science approach to doing it. Her background is in Account Management, ECOMMERCE, sales marketing and user experience, digital marketing and conversion optimization and related disciplines, with companies like at and t and verizon, as well as brands like Martha Stewart. An American girl, she currently serves as director of customer experience and employee engagement at Schinl Elevator, where she manages and coaches team members in more than sixty field offices. She also coaches and consults and customer experience at doing CX Rightcom Stacy Sherman, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Hi, thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited about the story because in this conversation because of two things in particular. One your experience in corporate America with very large organizations, as well as your passion for doing this and doing some of it at night and on your own time and things and helping other people in their businesses with it. So that's one. The other one, of course, is the bridge between employee experience and customer experience, and I love that that's in your title and in one of your many roles and hats that you wear these days. So I'm looking forward to getting into it, but will start where we always start, which is customer experience. When I say that to you, stacy, what does it mean? Yeah, so customer experience. Let me first by saying that customer service is a very long time used word. Customer experience is rather a new concept, or a methodology, I should say. So customer experience is looking at the way customers and prospects go through interactions with a brand. So from the moment that a cut, that a prospect, a person learned, it becomes aware of your service or product to the experience of actually buying it and getting it set up and using and paying and getting help, and that get help is that customer service, right calling for help, and so it's really looking at designing the entire journey, setting those those experiences, validating them with customers, real customers, to make sure that their expectations are met with what you designed. And then that's that's the big picture. But the key is that if the beginning, let's say how they learned and bought and got set up, was great, seamless easy, but if getting help when there's an issue is a high level of effort, that customers very likely going to leave and, even worse, they're going to tell others. So to your question, it is much more than just customer service, which is about the get help, an important phase of the journey. But people have to look at the entire holistic view and that's customer experience. That was fantastic. There were a couple of things I really, really liked and I'll mention a couple of them. First, as you talked about expectation management. It's so important and that's one of the reasons that we need to look at everything and make sure that it's all consistent,...

...because each touch sets up an expectation, hopefully a good one, and you need to continue to liver over and over and over at every one of these touch points. You also went straight you just like straight out of the gates on that definition or your thoughts on he went straight to the operationalization of it, which, you know, a lot of us that are not as we're not practitioners the same way that you are. Some of us aren't too who are in this community that I'm trying to build around this, including myself, aren't students of it and practitioners of it quite the same way that you are, and so I love that you went straight to the operational aspects of it, because I think that's so key and I hope to get into some really practical takeaways for those of us who are, you know, aware that this is an emerging discipline, that it is there are nuances to it that is beyond customer service, customer support, even customer success, which in and of itself is kind of a practice and some language for some things that have a foot in the past but also have a lot of new aspects to it too. so that's a fantastic go at customer experience. You also do a lot with employee experience and employee engagement. So a couple things you could do here that would be really helpful. One is talk about employee engagement versus employee experience and or build a bridge from customer experience to employee experience. Yes, so, just like I described the customer journey, there's also a journey for employees. So right from the moment they learn about your brand and they become you know, the hiring process and the onboarding experience and then their first ninety days and so on. So it is the leadership in these companies have to build out what's the best in class journey for the employees and what's that experience. Engagement is what happens when it's a good experience. So if, as a leader, which I'm very conscientious and intentionals, to make my team feel that they are valued, that the that their views matter, that they're empowered to do what's right for internal and external customers, then they're more likely to be more engaged. And what I've studied and have begun to approve with data is that when your custom when your employees are really intentional and and they're happy, they then transferred to the customer. The customer sees it and feels it, especially the frontline. So that makes sense absolutely. Yeah, they are the ones who deliver the experience to the customers for the most part, especially the customer facing rules, obviously, and I like the way you separated employee experience from Ploye engagement, that the engagement is the outcome of doing it. Well, let's tie kind of the first pass in this last pass together a little bit. I feel like, just like a lot of people maybe want to punt customer experience into a customer success or even customer service organization. My feeling, and you would know a lot better than I would, my feeling, is that a lot of people want to punt employee experience and employee engagement into hr or talent management talk. Is that what's happening in is that a mistake? Is that an okay place to start? Like, what do you think about that? Yeah, that's a that's a huge topic. I'll share my views, which is that you do need a customer experience Cxo, a champion at the top. Right. How with that said, there has to be a very close partnership and collaboration with marketing, with human resources, with operations, finance, with everybody, and drive that drum beat and the best practices and helping everyone understand how they own the customer experience. It's not one person...

...or department, it's everyone. It takes a village, but you do need a champion at the top. And then when it comes to the HR topic, they're obviously the first in line to the hiring customer centric people and it's important that they are mindful to hire people and ask the right questions to make sure you bring the right people in that support the culture, the customer centric culture. When it comes to the Voice of employee, I call it Voe, which is some similar to voice of customer voc you have to partner whether if HR owns that element of it, then it's just a close partnership. If this customer experience team owns that element, I think there's a lot of value to that, because then you can really marry the voice of customer in the voice employee when you are deciding new features, new products, new market messaging. I really believe you need to take both and marry it to come up with your business strategy. I love it at the at just the outset of your response there, when you said Cexos, like okay, this is good. Wouldn't it makes sense if you were to be in a position to assign someone to this, whether it's a cxo or a similar title, to marry the X and CX functions? Yes, my opinion is yes, there are some companies. I'm learning, I'm actually studying a lot of different corporations. How are they structured? You know, I believe that HR has certainly a lot of human elements and benefits and those things that keep you, you know, retention. But when it comes to employee feedback as it relates to your business lines, that is a huge responsibility that I do believe x and Cx have to come together. And if, if that's not how your company is aligned, you still do it right, you still you the partner with them, or you do it and you give everybody that feedback, but it's important. Or do you have any we can do this one quickly because I know this would be an entire episode on its own, but I just want to double back into VOC and Voe. I think most people who listen to a show like this would be familiar with VOC voe. Is something they probably haven't heard as often. Could you just do a quick drive by, if you were to, if you were to do like a thirty minute consultation with a business leader who is, you know, is aware of these ideas but not really intentionally practicing them, what would be you're just like really quick take on a few key measures around VOC which I think most people would be able to relate to. In what do you do parallel to kind of capture voe? And I know that's a huge, huge question. So if you can have as much time at as at it as you want, but I would hate to miss the opportunity to get like, you know, what are three or four collection points or measures or ways to start paying attention to VOC Voe? Yes, so it's really important when a company, or department, let's say, is developing a new let's say a new product, or could be an existing product with a new feature. So the old way would be you would design it and you would go to market, throw it out and and hope it sticks, hope the customers want it, and there that's all old news. Okay. And yes, and then you can get some customer feedback and surveys, and that's the old way. The new way that you actually could con turn whatever your new product service feature into a differentiator is starting with...

...the customer at the table and do concept validation. Ask Them, right, you could have literally a piece of paper, it could be a sketch. What do you think about x? What's your view on all these value propositions, about x? Rank in order, what really resonates to you? And elaborate on those questions. And, by the way, if you had these features, what you're willingness to pay? Right. So there's all this prototype testing, concept validation with customers before you even invested into this new big idea. And then you go through that agile process of development, and the key is to because I know a lot of product teams have deadlines and this is about quality over speed. But in that whole phase that I just described, you also, and you do, get customers quantitative and qualitative feedback. You also go to your employees, to the employees who are going to have to go sell and promote this new product or feature or service. So you ask them what about the solution makes sense to you, and you could actually ask them about maybe some of the training material that you're putting together, what's missing, what's confusing. So you co create with all the people all involved. The one caveat, and I can't say this strong enough, which is never replace the employee feedback instead of going to customers. And I've seen companies do that where they'll take that shortcut and say, well, let's just go to the salespeople and ask them instead of asking the customer. And you really have to do both. You cannot replace a customer. A customers view so good. You have to wait collect it all way at all. And it's interesting. It's, you know, as I think about some of the customer feedback that we get, you know there's there's obviously a balance. I like the way you approach it, by the way you approach it from someplace different that I'm operating in my mind right now, which is, you know, you get customer feedback in a variety of channels and a variety of ways, whether it's cancelation feedback or support ticket feedback or survey responses or, you know, unsolicited offers via email or social media or whatever, and it you have to weigh, you know, how important is this voice versus that voice versus that voice, and I really love your caution here not to take three employees feedback for proxy for the you know, a fair proxy for the three hundred people they talked with in the past week, right, because it's filtered in its processed. I agree with you that the employee, the customers, voice is super important and specifically there's, let's bring this a little bit into communication, something I've been really excited about in handling a lot of direct customer feedback, which I choose to do a lot anytime we do surveys in those types of things. You know, we have people that are a little bit more hardcore than me from a quantitative view processing the data, but I always volunteer to take the qualitative feedback and try to turn it into into meaningful things quantify to some degree because I love seeing the language people use. It comes with like a weight and a character and the words that they choose in these types of things. And so you already mentioned internal communication with employees to make sure that they understand where we're going with the big ideas and all of that, and that's that's one piece of communication. Where are some other internal and or external communication tips that you have in terms of making sure that everyone's on the same page and or that you're collecting the right stuff and some of the themes that...

...you've already spoken to. Yeah, so in terms of customer feedback, it is really, really important to definitely ask your customers the right questions and if you don't ask them the right questions, obviously you're not going to get the actionable feedback. You need to do something with it. So it's a science in an art in terms of the questions, but also you have to close the loop and that means taking that feedback, and we're talking about the structured feedback for this moment, not not talking about social media and ratings and reviews, because that's also feedback. That is part of the puzzle that has to be has to putting that on a shelf for a moment because it is equally important, but taking the feedback and getting it into your cells, your branch your sales offices, your product teams, you're marketing teams, so that they can actually understand what the customers saying and then use that to drive their business decisions and also let the customer know what you're actually doing because of their collective feedback and what happens is a lot of times, I know I've given feedback to companies and then I think it's a sin, like some dark hole, like it never gets anywhere, and in customers need to have trust and belief that you're going to give feedback, you're going to do something with their feedback. Otherwise, don't waste their time. They'll actually become a detractor and unhappy because you wasted their time. Yeah, it's so interesting. I just did a two thousand seven hundred Mile Road trip with with our teenage son to visit several college campuses. One of them was actually open for an in person tour, which I thought was pretty interesting, and they did a nice job of keeping us safe and distant from one another. But obviously I engage with a variety of brands and companies and I I took care, just for fun, to fill out for feedback surveys kind of over the past week or so. It's that kind of came to me and what you're talking about is something I just immediately acutely feel. Is like some of them were long and I just like would honor them. I just walk them out and take the sub questions that open up after you give them like you know they have hidden questions at all. So we're asking our customers to do so much, and I love your call here to close that loop and let them know what is happening, because the little thank you screen isn't enough. A five dollar starbucks Gift Card is enough. Like I'm now somewhat emotionally invested. I would say the same thing for employees. Would you say the same thing with regard to employees? Because something that we do at bombomb is we do a twice annual all employee kind of survey. It's a little bit like an employee nps at some level and there's plenty of open fields, and so what we do is a leadership team is kind of round up some of the feedback and then, if it's some of the loop closing is more appropriate to an individual and some of the loop closing is more appropriate to a department or a team and some of it's a appropriate to the entire company. Do you have any thoughts or feedback on closing the loop with employees as well? Yeah, so. Well, I want to answer this from bridging the customer and the employee together. So what I see too often over the years is that we have a tendency to focus on the negative, and I'm encouraging. We talked about customer engagement, employee engagement before. This is how you do it. When a customer especially calls out a particular name that really delighted them and that they're grateful because Joe Schmo did, you know, went out of their way, you have to take that feedback and celebrate that person, thank them. We don't do that enough as human beings and focus on the wonderful human factors and and just always think...

...about what's wrong, what's where? Do we coach to be better? Yes, you need that, but you need even more substantially to demonstrate what great looks like. So Voice of customer, they give feedback. I don't care what channel it is, online, offline. Make sure that the bosses are getting that feedback and they're taking the time to acknowledge the great employees, because that's going to feed them to do more our excellence. I love it one of these. This brings me right to something I was it really excited to talk to you about, among a variety of other topics, which is video. Something that we do this all the time internally. And we teach people to do the same, which is you know, and I've done this many times for myself, if I'm in a leadership meeting and I hear that a front if I hear a frontline employees name from a midlevel or a senior manager and it kind of crosses my radar, I will vary. Often just make a note in like once a week I'll go through these little notes that I have of people I want to thank or acknowledge or check in with or whatever and just hey, just want to let you know, as in a meeting earlier this week and so and so mentioned your name and the great work that you did with this thing. I just want to say I really, really appreciate you in the feedback I get by doing that. With a video is just through the roof. It like it just it's so much different. What is your interest in video with regard to some of this customer communication or employee communication? Yeah, I'm a huge, huge proponent of video. I've been playing with the technology, including bomb bomb, and I love it and the reason is because I know even for myself, my email inbox is so huge I can't possibly get to all of it. Personal email work, email, text, you know, different communications flying at us all the time and so and I know people don't really read, but when you get a video as specially when it says one minute, thirty seconds whatever, it's like, okay, let me hear what they have to say, and it grabs you right away. And so I've been playing with that and testing it out and then responses are like even the family members are like, I was having a bad day. Your video just absolutely brightened me up and I'm like wow, you know, that was so easy, so quick. The feedback was phenomenal. So I think that I know that video is here to stay. It is the future and what people need to do, because I'm speaking from experience, is to not be afraid of the technology. I think that gets in people's way to do something different. So when companies like bombomb make it easy to actually use the technology, if that's a low level of effort, there's a higher chance that people are going to use it and tell others. Yeah, I really appreciate that. I love that you're using it for personal effect as well. I mean it's just it's it goes to something you said earlier and I forget the exact language but this is kind of be a bridge to to another topic I want to talk about with you, about your work and the way that you approach it. But you mentioned something about, you know, letting someone feel heard or letting someone feel seen in, and it's that element. There's there's so many moments, whether it's the the kind of internal leadership and management example I offered or the personal example that you mentioned, is just this taking this thought that I have, like, Oh, I need to see how she is or oh my gosh, I just heard this interesting piece of news about I'm going to reach out and congratulate and or thank him or whatever, making it into an action, but making you to do an action that people can feel that like that, that sincerity, that enthusiasm or that concern or that interest or those softer side elements that are really difficult just like type out and get through effectively. Yeah, I mean that's that's the beauty...

...of video, because you can't really convey from the heart. You could feel it, you could feel the energy went through a video and I believe, especially during pandemics like this, that we need to find these creative ways to keep connection, to keep the feelings and address the feelings even more sensitively, and that's that's what's going to change, I believe, the way we communicate, in the way we do business. I completely agree into the employee engagement side, to the degree that we can equip and empower our team members to do the same like something that has kept me. I will have been a bomb nine years full time in September, which is just absolutely insane. It's twice as long as I've been anywhere and the thing that always brings me back and brings me to life is connecting with customers and knowing that we're helping them or that they're getting real impact and in like when they feedback some of the stuff that you're doing in a positive way and give you these little stories and moments. And so I know that so many of our team members are highly, highly engaged because they have those same interactions with customers where they maybe send a video to follow up on a support ticket and they get this reply back that says, oh my gosh, that's amazing. And so you start to see more first names showing up in some of these other feedback loops and feedback channels because they feel some attachment, not to the company or the brand, but to Jessica right, because I feel like I know Jessica down and she was so helpful to me anyway. So you mentioned in your response they're again, you know, you mentioned art and science, you mentioned heart, you mentioned feeling a couple of times. Your approach to CX is a blend of heart and science and I love for you just to speak to that because just in you know, we connected before this conversation. I've spent some time on your website and I love that you're explicit about it and I think it matters and I just be curious to hear about it in your own words, like making sure to be explicit about heart and science. Yes, and, by the way, the customer service example you gave before with that video. The reason why it works is it's so personalized. Right. There's no cookie cutter approaches anymore to any business. The more personalize it is, the more that it stands out. So heart and science to me is about so customer experience. There's definitely a method, all G on how you do it and there's the basics and then there's some really sophisticated techniques and platforms. So the science of it is a lot of the data that comes from that methodical approach. And even when you think about the basic level, if it's one on one customer interviews, if it's focus groups, if it's surveys, there is the element that you get numeric scores, so it becomes the scores and there's predictive predictability, modeling and future behaviors based on the data you have. So's a lot of data analysis data scientists who really are doing so well in this field because it's needed and we know people are not just buying on price, they're buying on experiences. So there's a science to it. But then there's the heart, because at the end of the day, a business is a business. We're buying from people who are in the company and even some of my friends have said, Oh, my boss like I can't, I can't be here, and I'm like that's just a person, that's not the company is bad. It's just happens to be that you have a disconnect with your boss. But you know and same thing if you have a bad experience with an employee, it's not the whole entire company is bad, but the reality is perception is reality and it does affect the whole image, so that the heart...

...to it is really diving into the qualitative feedback and understanding what's said and what's not said. And it does all come back to the sentiments and the feelings behind the numerics. So that's why they're both really important. You can't make any judgments calls without both pieces. I love it, and one colors the other. Right. You can have some of those qualitative feedback and it might drive some questions that you can get answered through the data. Likewise, you can sit and pour over the data, but it's missing this context that even one little story from the qualitative side will completely change the way this report looks. Yes, absolutely so. Again, I mentioned this off the top, but you're obviously all in. You are actively studying, you're doing it by day in a formal corporate role. You're doing it nights and, I assume, weekends for fun and interest, in passion, doing some consulting, content development, etc. Where did in? You also acknowledged in the beginning that that there is something new about customer experience as a discipline. So this is obviously not something that you were doing, at least under the label CX. You know, I've or ten years ago, what was the kind of the dawn or spark or catalyst for your obvious passion for customer experience? Like, where were you in your life for your career? Where where something clicked in you're just like all in, or was it a slow build? Yeah, that's a great question. So I kind of have two answers in my mind. One is back in high school, long time ago. I won't I won't reveal how long ago. There was no Internet then and I was I remember I was in a marketing advertising class and we were studying consumer behaviors and actually was all about subliminal advertising and I was fascinated by subliminal ads and and they were probably magazines at the time, and what's the message say? And that what makes people move and and take action, and I was fascinated and that pivoted me to go to college and I studied all marketing and consumer behaviors. So it's clearly in me to go that path as opposed to accounting or engineering law. And then after college I ended up in a sales role at ATNT and continued on to get my masters in marketing. And when I was finished with my masters, that's when Google became Google and just the beginning of it and the world online. In fact, my thesis was what's the Internet? It's Hilarious to read it now, but and and so life goes on. Right. I went in and out of telecom and different industries and then about five maybe longer, two thousand and thirteen ish, I was at verizon. I was doing marketing at that time and my boss said to me you're now going to do customer experience in this BOC thing and as I as I call it, threw me a ball and I'm and I'm like what is this thing? And he's like, I don't know, go figure it out, and so I did. And that was really the beginning of how I start to really understand and that was an e commerce channel. So really understanding when traffic came, millions of people to verizoncom understanding, well, what's going to make them actually take out their credit card and pay and making sure there's no friction along that customer buying journey. And so there was so much around the online digital experience turned it into Omni channel, the buying online, pick up...

...a store, and so it evolved and to the ants. To finalize the story is that when I got an opportunity where I am now at him Elevator Corporation, I had a decision to make, which was do I want to continue down the path that I knew a long time, which was sales and digital marketing, or do I want to continue down a career path really around CX customer experience, because the new role Shin there was very much elevating the customer centric culture and bring new ideas to the organization as the CX leader, and so I want that path and the beautiful thing is I we have a marketing department and and customer experience and we work together. So it's a collaborative thing. It takes a village and I love this. I will. I am. I think the answer of why I spend so much time on it is because it doesn't feel like work. So when you do what you love and love what you do doesn't feel like work. Yeah, what a healthy habit in I guess. So many followed questions. I guess I'll start with what are you doing with doing CX right? Yes, so it started as a blog several years ago and I really encourage people to find their voice, whatever they're passionate about and just write, just just write, just get it out there. When I launched this I had no idea if anyone would ever read anything I had to say. I thought maybe I'd be maybe my family and you're one. You do a lot wrong quickly and then your two and three, it starts to really take traction and you, you, you learned so much and now where I am now is working on my dreams, which is writing books. I coauthored two books. One's out on kindle now and paper back in a few weeks and then a second book coming in October. And mentoring people. I love. That's my favorite part, so that I could help people who either want to get into the field and don't know where to start or people who are experts and want to take it to the next level. And I want to do some Ted talks. I want to do I have a lot of a lot of dreams. So I'm adding them up. But but it's my own train ride right there's no speed. It's what comes naturally when I have my spare time. I love it. I love that you're it was just such a healthy hobby. is so wonderful and it's so naturally occurring. What a what an awesome thing to be trusted enough by a supervisor to be thrown that ball. You know, and here we are years later and it all makes sense in hindsight. But you would have never seen it coming then. Not only didn't I see it coming then, but if that literally that ball, that that that symbolic ball, if that wasn't thrown to me and it was thrown to my neighbor, I wouldn't be sitting here today, I wouldn't have known all the things I know and I wouldn't have gone for the certifications I did. I wouldn't have I wouldn't be here where I am now. So everything happens for a reason, I think. I know also that while I felt really frustrated that that that boss threw me something and couldn't help me because he didn't know, it made me tougher so that anything that comes my way now I figure it out. It did then and now I can again. So it's a good lesson. It's awesome and really that's a nice summary of life in general. You know, you can either like duck and cover or just play it safe, or you can just go figure it out when things come your way, and it's some cases we...

...don't have any other option. No, and I think the times were living and right now, where nobody can predict anything. Right, like I'm sending my kids back to college in, you know, she very shortly, in days, and I don't know. Tomorrow the call can come. NOPE, no school or, you know, total change. So I think that's our new way of life of not knowing, being prepared to catch the balls and learning what to do with it. Yeah, and I hope that we in this. This is, I guess, not really related to the to the topic at hand necessarily, although it is in some way. This is the heart side of it. I hope that in light of that, that that we can trust each other as team members and a customers and service and products suppliers, to just trust that everyone is doing their best in light of the crazy situation. Give a little bit of space, give a little bit of patience, give a little bit of grace and, you know, just do our best together. I love that you said that and I want to do a quick recommendation for and there's no I have no incentive whatsoever to give this recommendation, but you just said, like everyone do their best. There's a book that changed my life called the for agreements, and the fourth agreement is always do your best, and it sounds so simple, but each of the agreements don't assume anything, be impeccable with your words, don't take anything personally and always do your best. And each one has a lot of meat behind each of those sections. And I had an epiphany actually a couple weeks ago. I wrote an article, it's in Forbes now, about how this principle applies to business too, and so I encourage people to read the book and apply to their lives, because then more people will do their best, they will have more empathy and magic happens. I love it. They'll be better people and better team members and problem better customers too. That's awesome. I'm so glad. I I entertain that, as sometimes I wonder in my own head like him, I taking this off course. That's awesome. I'm so glad. So, for folks who are listening, we do short write ups on all of these episodes. We take video clips from these episodes to kind of so you can meet the guests a little bit differently than just spending time in your ear buds with her. I also round up some links and so of course they'll be access to stacy's linked in profile. Have doing CX right hooked up. I'll have the for agreements hooked up. I will I will find that article in forms and Hook that thing up. And so if you're enjoying this podcast, of course you should subscribe in your preferred player, but you can go an extra step by visiting Bombombcomas podcast. In there you of course you can get what I offered there for every episode. In addition, you can check out other episodes. So like, if you like this one, here are a couple more that I think are on theme that you'll also enjoy episode seventy three with Christopher Wallace. He runs a consultancy called interview group, I nnar. So obviously it's internally focused and we called that one marketing to your employees, not just to your customers, which we did a really nice drive by on earlier. But that's what his entire business is about. Is like rolling out big initiatives like in lot very large companies, and making sure that all the frontline people that need to execute it and deliver the experience don't just know what's going on, which I think is often taken for granted but also are cognitively and emotionally bought into it, so that it's a delivered with some level of excitement. And since Dirty Se's episode seventy three with Christopher Wallace and then episode eighty with Gil Cohen, we titled that one employee Experience Design how, why and where to begin, and my conversation with him is one of the reasons I was so excited to hear you separate employee engagement from employee experience with that was something that we talked about in that conversation as well, in designing an employee experience in order to create a higher level of engagement...

...and then ultimately, of course, deliver a better experience for your customers as a consequence. So, Stacy, before I let you go, I need to ask you a couple more things than I'll give you an opportunity to send people wherever you would like them to connect with you, but first I always loved to know, and you did a nice shout out to the for agreements, but is there a person that you would like to mention who's had a positive impact on your life or your career? So many people, I would say, as a sort of my career, but as I entered the CX space. Who is I've mentioned him a lot, so if people have heard other shows, they'll they won't be surprised, but it's Chephiken. Great Dude, you know. You know shallow. Okay, so and and he's worth reinforcing again because he, as I said, he's he's famous. You know. No, no, no question about that. He's famous and he never forgets where he came from and he helps people like me, when I was first starting out to now, he's there. He's there for me, he's been a mentor, he's been so giving of his time. He had me on a show and he he just gave me a voice and continues to do that. So that's my answer. I we need more ships in the world. That is awesome. Chef hike in Hyka and he's hiking on twitter. He I agree. He's an awesome guy. He has been on this show and you know, just to hear you say that, that's a person who's obviously going about his life and his work in a way that is going to leave a very positive legacy. Mutual friend of ours, Dan Ginghis, who I recently spoke with and who has also been on this show referred to him as the Godfather. Is like, well, of course he's The godfather of, like you know, customer he's one of those people who did just a fantastic job of building that bridge from customer service, as its traditionally been done, and broadening it out to to experience in in which calls back to your definition of customer experience. Yeah, funny you mentioned Dan getting us because I was on his show yesterday and another great good another great guy. And and the theme right that the invisible thread between those two guys and some others is that, and hopefully people will say that about me on other people's podcast one day, and that is it's about showing up authentically right this right now. There's no script, it's just coming from the heart and and that's what those two guys do and and many others women see in Cx as well. That that's that's how you know, that's how you build trust and admiration and paying a forward. That's what it's about. I love it. That's also how you build a community and advance and movement. In this case it's the movement to make customers experiences better. Speaking of which, can you think of a company or brand that you really appreciate, a respect for the experience that they deliver for you, stacy, as a customer. Yes, so again people are going to know this answer, but that's okay because I feel good about it. And that is trader Joe's. I love that. From the minute I walk in the door, people say hello. So basic, right, but they say hello. They there's a journey right when you walk into when you leave from the register and then bagging your stuff, but they're talking to you and they're giving you recommendations about the products. And when you walked in originally and you didn't know where something is, other markets, the the you know, someone in the staff will just point to an aisle and you're guessing where is that? Where do they just point? Trader Joe's the walk you...

...to the actual product. They'll open the bag and I'm like no, don't, don't waste it on me. And like no, no, it's okay, we want you to really like it, you know. So it's just filled with a lot of wow moments. That's that's my point. Love it. It's people who care and and it seems like the culture itself is probably pretty fun and I've seen trader Joe's on a number of lists that specifically treat their employees well, which just is a reinforcement of what you've shared with all of us here today, which is that a great employee experience be gets a great customer experience. It's almost impossible to produce a fantastic employee experience and not have a great customer experience as a consequence. It's true and I am so excited. I'm going to be writing an article shortly. I interviewed some people at Trader Joe's and what it's like and and so I obviously we talked about it. That's consumers, but I'm going to be writing about it from the inside. So awesome, be fun, great teas and if that happens to release, before I release this episode, I'll put that it won't bombomb thatcom slash podcast. Okay, cool, yeah, yeah, this has been awesome. I really enjoyed it so much. Again, there are several other places we could have gone, and so I'll have to have you back, but in the meantime, if people enjoyed this, where would you send them to follow up and learn more and connect with you and maybe read some of your articles and that type of thing. Yes, I welcome that at doing doianng C X, right Urghtcom, and it's filled with the resources and tools and tips and white papers on how you can accelerate your skills and your practice, no matter where you worked, no matter what industry you're in. I'm happy to help. Awesome doing CX, writecom. Check it out. Thank you so much for your time, stacy, and thank you for listening to the customer experience podcast. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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