The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

107. Improving Retention (From the First Hello) w/ Gowri Ramkumar

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Customer retention has always been important, but nowadays it feels absolutely vital. Trust, honesty, and relationship are the 3 broad categories of customer retention — but how to boil them down into actionable tenets?

 

In this episode, I interview Gowri Ramkumar, Customer Relationship Manager at Document360, about her guiding philosophy for customer support.

 

Gowri and I talk about…

 

- The relationship between customer experience & customer success

 

- How sales teams should act like doctors

 

- How honesty is required at every single level of communication

 

- How trust comes first

 

Check out this resource we mentioned during the podcast:

 

- Gowri’s podcast is Knowledgebase Ninjas

 

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

Customer success to me is helping customers get the most out of a product. So it could be like getting on a support goal to help them with any issues they have, or right from the demost stage or right from your initial requirements of gathering call, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte three simple things you and your customer success team can do to improve customer retention. That's what you'll get here on this episode, and those three things come from a woman who serves as customer relationship manager at three high growth software companies, including document three hundred and sixty. She's applying her background in engineering, it and testing to improve customer service and customer success, and she hosts the knowledge based Ninja's podcast. Gowery Ramkamar, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you, Eaton, for the brilliant introduction to to me and my profession. I'm really looking forward to connect with you today and shad, make experience awesome. Before we get going on, just tell us a little bit about the knowledge based Ninja's podcast. How long have you been hosting it and what are you trying to do with the show? Fantastic. Yeah, so knowledge based Ninja's podcast is a community event or activity we try to do for the documentation community. So when we started marketing documentary and sixty to the market couple of years ago, we were looking at various options of bringing this community together and one of the ideas that came out was a podcast, because we could see huge contributors to this community and we just wanted to hear from everybody, right from small company to all the way to big companies, how they are using documentation, what are they doing, what's their process, etc. So the I think this podcast started, if I remember, maybe less than a year ago, but it's it's got an amazing response so far. So I have spoken to various guests from different company size and it's amazing. Yep, awesome. I love it. The keyword they use there, I think, is community. This and the podcast format does such a nice job of allowing people to have real conversations at depth about the work that we're doing every day, and so I wishould continue success on that and again, welcome to this podcast. We're going to start this conversation where we always start, on the customer experience podcast, which is your thoughts or definition of customer experience. When I say customer experience, worry. What does that mean to you? So customer experience is the process of creating a positive association with your brand. So it covers lots of things. So it's like how satisfied or your customers every time they interact with your company. It just doesn't stop when the sales finished. It's all the way till the customers with you. How many other year it goes awesome and for you, you know, this has been kind of a background, not a debate, but you know something that different people, as we define it, from with different people in different roles, in different positions and different perspectives of customers and the customer experience. People see the relationship between customer success and customer service and customer experience a little bit differently. What do you think is the relationship between those two? I mean, you already addressed smartly the idea that it obviously continues post sale into the customer success and customer service experience. But when you think about customer success and customer experience, what is the relationship there in your mind?...

Super so customer success to me is helping customers get the most out of a product. So it could be like getting on a support goal to help them with any issues they have, or right from the demost stage or right from your initial requirements gathering call. So it's a customer success to me is how are you helping your customers to get the more out of your product. So to me both are two different things, but they overlap a lot in multiple ways. So, if I can say in one word, customer success is an important part of customer experience. So they work together. They have to, though you might have two separate teams looking after your prospects leading them to a customer but then your customer success is is an integral part of your customer experience. So all put together, is what you get your customers out of? Excellent. I really like the the separation there. CS is an important part of CX, but it is a part of the overall experience. I agree. So tell us a little bit so you know you're with KVII, but you represent multiple products and brands, including document three hundred and sixty. Before we go further for contacts, I think what you're doing is really interesting. Tell us a little bit more about the structure that you're operating in. Great so Kobai as a company was started back ten years ago and we have our flagship product, but three hundred and sixty, which we started selling to the enterprise companies two thousand and twelve on word. So as a business we've been in this industry for over ten years and for us, customer experience or customer services really super important because being multi product company, you never know where you get your customers from. My first product customer might all of a sudden get interested in my product too, and product three or civil as hundred and sixty, document one hundred and sixty. So if we keep a customers happy with one product, when the need comes for another product, it's very, very easy for us to convince. So right now we have right now we have three to four products and we are aiming to get more into the industry. So that's why it's important for me to make sure I know the customers from all the three products and if, when and when we sync up with them on relationship calls. Very often we do ask them, what's your requirement? Has Your requirements change? Do you know we have a documentary hundred and sixty? So it also gives us that a leverage to, you know, cross sell different products. Absolutely in the solve new and different problems that customers maybe have in common and they didn't know that you provided that solution. Really good. Let's go specifically into document three hundred and sixty. Tell us a little bit about document three hundred and sixty. Who is the ideal customer for that and kind of what do you solve for them? What problem are you addressing for folks who participate in that product? So Fair so, as I mentioned, we've been in the so industry for ten years or so. So we before document three hundred and sixty was released, we had two other products which are enterprise products, mist three hundred and sixty and civilis thre hundred and sixty. And the only way how we can help our customers is by having good documentation on our releases, on or product features, various videos, help contensif use etc. So we use documentation heavily so when we were looking at various options to write the documentation for these product, unfortunately we couldn't find a tool that will satisfy all our requirements. So, being a software company without HMM, that looks like a good gap. So let's let's start a product.

So it all started back to two and a half years ago, and we are see who he came up with this idea to build documentary and sixty, and the whole journey is an amazing one to listen. So, if you leave me, I will talk for twenty four hours about Dogumn, three hundred and sixty. But it all started with a four week hackathon where we pulled everybody in the company, right from low level department to all the way to the sales team or the entire company. A think at that point we were around sixty of them. So we all worked together on a four week Hackaton period and we built the first framework. So even before the Hackathon, our ce who spent about two months brainstorming various frameworks and ideas, and after they hackathon we worked again for six seven months and we release the first version of documentary hundred and sixty. So just to tell you what this documentary and sixty documentary. Hundred and sixty is an online knowledge base management solution. So anybody who who would like to manage their knowledge base fus user guides documentations online, documentary and sixty is a solution for you. Awesome. I love this story of we have a problem that we can solve for ourselves because the market doesn't provide it. And No, by the way, if this is a need that we have, this is certainly a need that other companies have and we could turn it into a product. It's outstanding. I think those of US could, because I'm with you on this. Those of us who have products that we can use in order to sell and serve our products more effectively are certainly in an advantage position because you know so many people inside your organization deeply understand not just the product itself, but why the product is needed at a deep level and how to use it, and so you know bomb of course we use our own software to do all the things we need to do, including selling and serving our software. Before we get into the three tips to improve retention, do you have like a guiding philosophy or what are some of the premises that you approach customer service and customer success under kind of what guides you and the folks that you work with in terms of connecting with your customers and helping them achieve success. Shield. So, as I mentioned, documentary is actually coming from our own pain points, right. So that's not only with document through sixty, any product we build so far, the flagship product, this sixty, is also actually coming from our own pain point of not having a good monitoring solution for for integration, BESTOC integration platform. Because we understand the pain point, it becomes even more easier for us to connect with our customers, either through customer experience or customer service, because when somebody comes to us with X, Y Z requirement, we can actually relate to our own pain point we had before we brought any of these products. So it's easy to talk their language because we know what they are looking for and we can exactly tell this is what we had as a problem, and that's why we have this feature in in our product and the moment we speak their language, it's so easy. You know, they know, they feel that they've been understood very well and it's a very smooth right. So, in fact, I I won't even call my team as a sales team. I always tell them that we are not there to preach our product, we are there to solve their problem. So we should act like a problem solve where somebody, like a doctor. So when you go to the doctor, the doctors politely and quietly listens to it, to your problem right. He is not very excited when you tell your problem. He quietly, calmly listens, then he real trates your problem and then tries to suggest a medicine for you. So so. So that's what I tell my team. You should treat yourself as doctors. Be Customers or prospects who come to you. They have...

...a problem in hand and they are looking for somebody to listen and suggest. If we don't have a medicine, we should say we don't have a medicine. It's faft because we we are not expecting everybody's problem to be sold by your product. But if we have we should be calm and address day at paint points. So I hope I answered your question. Yeah, I really like this analogy and I think it's such a health healthy approach both to the sales and the service side of it, and I especially appreciate kind of what was implied in your response there, which is this honesty that we may not be the right solution for you. I mean it seems so obvious and so intuitive, but I think you know, when we think about the sales side of customer relationships, I think it's easy for a lot of people to come up with stories and examples of when maybe they were over sold something or sold something that they actually didn't need. So I appreciate what you shared their can you think this just occurred to me? Can you in the answer? Maybe no, but can you think of an example of a time when a customer and document three hundred and sixty proposed an idea that you that maybe you were able to create a feature around or solve a problem that you even as a user, and kind of the origin of the product? You know, your own pain was the origin of documentary sixty. You're like, oh my gosh, this is great not just for this customer but also for us, and you went and built it. Oh, absolutely, so that's that's how we grow. So, though, documentary sixty s birth was from our own pain points. The first couple of releases, or even three four releases, I should say, was our pain points that we brought as features. For example, we have a backup and restore capability in the product and we also have category level access, security group access to the product. So these were some of the pain points we had because when our team, when the company, grew from one product to three products, we wanted a documentation for all three products, but not all writers to have access to all the products. So we wanted to have that segregated access for creating contents. That was not available in many platforms. So that's one of the features we have in documentary sixty. You can give restricted access to your writers. So not everybody is doing everything and not every every department sees everything. Now what's happening is when when we started getting customers, they of course have a lot of requirements to us. So we have a dedicated feedback platform where customers can come and ask what they want, and it also gives us other customers opportunity to vote on those features, because if you have a requirement, it will we want to know whether that's the same requirement for other customers as well. So we advertise those requirements, we make it public, other customers and prospects can vote for it and the more vote a feature gets, we bring that into the product. So we have brought many features that was requested by our customers as as product capability, and this level of interaction, this level of relationship, is actually making us what we are right now. So customers really appreciate that and they feel like we are part of their team. Yeah, I like it. That Co creation definitely brings people in and a deeper way where you're not just a product provider but in fact a partner in their business and you know a lot of their suggestions can help your own business, which is great. So let's go into those three simple things that teams can do to improve retensition. Obviously, in a recurring revenue business, which extends far beyond software companies, almost everything is is being sold from on a subscription basis at this point, retention is obviously critical to the business model working. So your role is obviously critical to the success of the organization, not just to the customer. I guess those two are inseparable. Share with us those three things that you're trying...

...to do regularly to improve retention and we can take them one at a time here. Sure. So, since ours is some multi product company and the three products as of no, we have three. The three products are very different in nature. Couple of them are enterprise products and which is being in the market and use bay customers for over eight nine years, documentary sixty, is is a different product. So we still have customers from the very initial days when we launched this to sixty, so they've been using for eight nine years. So when it comes to customer attrition, we see very little touch word. I don't know why, because I sincerely think it's because of the way we connect with our customers in the initial days. So when we collect their requirements, we are very open. When they say they want five features, for example, if we are able to satisfy only tree, we tell them upfront we have right now only three, but you can put that as a feedback and we will be able to get that as a feature to you in our root web. So I think that's one of the reasons why we think the attrition rate is very low for us, and that's one of the policies we follow all the time, looking after your customers right from your initial days of conversation with them. So once you understood their requirement, once they know what you are providing they are happy and they connect with you. Once they become our customer, then what you do with them also matters a lot. So I think you asked me for three simple things you can do to improve your retentions. Right. So one first thing I would say is looking after your customers. Just make sure, not, not until the sale is done, right, all the way, even after they become your customer, looking after them. They requirements, their pintpoint should still be in your mind, because they can leave you at any point. Given given the current term model of subscription, it's easy for a customer to keep jumping one for a product to another, right. So, so that's that's one of the things. So looking after their needs and connecting with them more often. So make sure you are there for your customers, not until the sale is closed, until they are your customer, be sure to be for them. It could be a simple, hallow message, you know, if you've not heard from them for a long time, you can just simply say hi, we've not spoken for a long time, how are you doing? Blah, Blah Blah. That that makes that connection more strong. And I think the last point I would say is be honest. As I've been mentioning right from the beginning. You don't need to oversell anything. So if if you know you can't do certain things for them, just be honest and say this is what our product is and this is what our SCOPEUS. I know we are not meeting each other's requirement, but is this something you would like to take forward? So I think that honesty is required at every single level. So that, though, these are the three things that we try to keep throughout the entire company, if even within the development team, not only with the sales team, technical support, everywhere you go, we try to speak the same language. Yeah, I think honesty it's so interesting in these relationships, or just like all of the other relationship tips in our lives, our relationships with our team members, with our family members, with our friends, like honesty is the foundation for trust, of course, and trust is the key to maintain the relationship over a long period of time. I also appreciate your diligence to understand the customer and their requirements, their pain, the the again, the the kind of doctor approach of discovering, listening, leading and then considering prescription. I like the CO creation element as well. There's a lot of really good stuff going on there. On a transition a little bit, because I...

...think your background is very interesting. I would as a marketer and a communicator. I would describe your background as technical. You've got an engineering degree, you've got a computer science background. You built a career in testing. How do you feel like that background set you up for success in customer relationships and customer service? Yeah, I think my background has definitely helped me a lot because when I did I did my engineering in computer science and engineering. Back I graduated in two thousand and two. The only reason I took computer science and engineering was at that point that's the only degree, apart from doctor where you will get a good job. So that was my only motivation to take that course. But by the time I finished my fourth year I knew very well that I won't be able to quote. So I'm there. I was ready poored in coding. So coding was something not for me. Then I started doing lecturing. So I started my career as a lecturer in university and then after three four years, my family situations changed. I moved to a different country. Teaching was not an option there at that point. So I start I started looking what do I do next? Then I looked at testing as my next opportunity to grow, because I don't want to code. So with my testing background and my computer science background, these two combinations put together, when I talk to customers, they when they ask something, I will be able to tell right from that requirement whether that's something that can be done from our product or not, because I know a bit of the technicals technicality of the product as well. So when they ask me or when when my team comes in checks with me, I tell them, HMM, this might not be possible with our current architecture, so we might need to double check with the development team. So I think definitely the testing career, which I did for quite some time. With my testing experience, we kind of try to understand from the customers point of view what they are trying to get from us. So all the three care of put together, I think I'm really enjoying the job I'm doing right now. Awesome for people who are listening that maybe and say ails or customers success. What are some tips you can give them to understand their brothers and sisters in testing roles? You know you've obviously been on both sides of that. What can you maybe offer to people that are operating in customer facing roles to help them understand testing and testers in the testing process? Absolutely so, when I was doing my test manager or test analyst role, one thing I always wanted to make sure is I understood what they are telling me to do. So if a business, anernerst gives me a specification document, I read through the document and I need to make sure that understand every single point that's mentioned in the document before even I start my testing activity. So to anybody who wants to take this as an opportunity, I would say you listen to what the customer wants and try to be in their shoes. So imagine you are a customer and how would you like to get that requirement? Turn from a product through which feature. So you need to understand what you've been told to do or what you are doing. So the moment you understand what you want or what you've been asked to do, everything else becomes easy. You know this is what you need to do, this is how you approach and this is how you get get the result test. So for me there's not many tips to give, only one. Listen, understand and then implement excellent. I have a feeling that you've kind of previewed where I wanted to go next, which is, you know, the...

...goal of this show is to create more conversation across marketing, sales and customer success, all in service of creating and delivering a better experience for customers. And you know, even when our organizations are very healthy from a cultural standpoint, we can still get kind of siloed in our team. So I like to create a little bit of this kind of cross conversation. You've already talked. I feel like you've a very healthy relationship with your sales team, but what do you wish more salespeople knew or understood about customer success and customer service. Shure. So, as I said, when you are doing sales, you should not focus on the sales because for me, a sales is lost not at the end of the hello, because for me, the team of what we have here in Kowai is not a sales team, it's a problem solving or a nurturing team. So you need to see what did the customers want, and when do they want, how do they want and what are they expecting from you? So once you have an answer to all these little small how? What? When questions. Then you need to treat yourself as okay, if I were that customer, how or the eye react to this particular scenario? So you put yourself in their shoes and then you try to answer, not to please them but to get what they want. And always make sure you know their pain points, because they have a pain point and that's why they've come to you. So you understand if if you don't know, ask ask them. I'm not able to follow you. Is Everything okay? Can you please tell help me a little bit more with an example. The more question you ask to the customer upfront in the initial days, the more answers you you you don't need to feel at the end you know why you lost the customer or why this customer is not replying to my queries, because initially the relationship is very, very important. You need to build the trust between you and your customers by asking more questions. Once you have that feeling of I've been understood by my str or salesperson, then your customer experience is a piece of cake. Really interesting is a thought that occurred to me and it's I don't think it's genius at all. But in hearing you provide that response, I mean I have this kind of concept that customers success starts on the sales side of the relationship. Would you say that that's maybe fair to say the success of the customer starts? I mean I actually I know you do, because I've heard you say it essentially in this conversation. is in sorry, sorry, in a rupped but the work that you do at front understand the customer, it starts at a very, very beginning and that is the beginning of the success of the customer. Correctly, a many people think that I've lost that customer because I did not do my job properly. I did, or I did not follow up with the customer regularly or I did not listen to them. So but actually the sale is lost at your very initial conversation of or hello. So for me, I always tell my team that your first few conversation with your customers or prospects is to build that trust. So first you build your trust. After that, whatever you tell in whatever manner, because the trust is there already, your customers will listen to you because they know that your initial hard work of listening to them is there and the trust is built. Again, I'm coming back to this doctor example, because that's one example I give my team all the time. You go to the doctor and you tell the doctor your problem because you know the doctor's doctor has got the experience and they are ready to listen. And once...

...you build the trust with the doctor, the doctor, whatever the doctor prescribes, I'm sure you will consume without asking a single question. Right. So that's the level of trust you need to build with your customers. And when, right now I'm not doing much of sales activity because we've got big teams and a lot of people to do the job I was doing. But when I started with Kowai, I started from ground. So I started my career as a sales to as Dr and then we put the framework, we put the processes, and once it started rolling out, that's when we started taking more people, and then I used to train them on all these things. So when, even now, I get email from the customer whom I was dealing eight years ago, so the email will be very simple. They will simply say hi, I'm planning to buy your other product. How are you? I'm so happy to see such emails because I'm not talking to them every day I'm not talking to them or at all because but the sale was closed. They are still using our product. Happy days. But when you see the customers coming to you and wanting to talk to you again and again, I think that's a that's a different fleshure it is. I share that joy with you. I you know, I was the first marketer. I was the only marketing person on the BOMBOMB team for a couple of years, years and years ago, and I've sent a ton of email on behalf of the company for my personal email address, and so I'm still communicating with people who've been you know, we've been are going to market. Was In about two thousand and eleven. So we've been, you know, actively selling and supporting for about nine years now, going on ten. And I have customers who I haven't communicated with, like you and like five, six, seven eight years, who just reach out kind of cold they maybe need something or want something or whether I want to check in. But you know that relationship is still there at some level and it really is a joy to be in touch with as many customers as possible, even over long periods of time. I want to get one more question in before we go to a couple of my favorite questions of the entire conversation because it's about the relationships you've built in your life and your career with brands and with people. But you know you host a podcast about the knowledge base and you're interviewing all kinds of people. You said they're from businesses big and small, for folks who have some responsibility there or you know part of their success relies and having a healthy knowledge base. What are a few tips or themes or emerging trends, anything that you're hearing by hosting these conversations that might be helpful for people who are looking to improve the knowledge based experience for their customers? Shure what I hear very often from from my guests. To some I always ask this question to them. What is your documentation process at Xyz Company, Audio Company? Very often I hears they get in world right from the beginning of product or discussion or product building stage. So documentation or creating your knowledge basis not the last step in your product release. You need to get involved in various conversations right or different levels, so when you're ready to launch your product or when you're ready to launch a release, you know exactly what you're writing and what your content is aimed at and again, coming to what customer persona your contents are going to be consumed. So the team involvement or the technical writers involvement is not at the last stage, it's at every stage, is of the product or a release cycle and various teams. So it's just not with one team. They collaborate. Ay Talk to information security team, they talk to project managers, they also to talk to their customers support team, because customers support team is who...

...the customer stock and the ticket conversations are happening on various technical support right. So, so this is something that a lot of my guests share with me and it's amazing to it kind of takes a different perspective to your documentation team, right. So you might be thinking, okay, once the product is ready ready to be launched, the it gets to the product documentation team and they look at the product and they do a documentation. That's not the case at all many companies, either it be a small, small one or large organization, the level of interaction is is very deep. And another thing what I we found is when we started with this podcast, we never thought that we will have guests from these many different titles. So we have guests from Ui Ux Development, we have technical writer and we have documentation manages. So once, once we started interacting with all these guests, that's when we realize documentation is not a small, poor portion, you know it is. It is huge on its own and this Uyu x is so very upcoming, Ada, I should say, in documentation. Excellent. Thank you for that. To really interesting insights into the first one in particular. It reminds me of so many things. If we want to do it well, we need to involve all of the stakeholders very, very early and to create some cross functional teams, if not at least conversations and processes to facilitate success at the outcome. But it needs to start from the very, very beginning of you know, let's say, a piece of product development. Really good if you are listening to this conversation and you've enjoyed it, I've got a couple more that I think you will also enjoy. Episode Seventeen with our chief customer officer at Bombomb, Jonathan Bolton. He built our CS team from the ground up, including, you know, hiring and managing the folks that have built our knowledge base and and again. That's episode seventeen with Jonathan Bolton, JB, and we call that one the best customer experience delivers an appropriate experience. And then, more recently on episode seventy four with Steph Caldwell, who at the time had built two CS processes at cool software company in Chicago called Narrative Science. She since transition to sales. So it was really interesting Gery to hear your background is in str she's gone the other way where she's built a couple CS processes and now is in sales. And we call that using tech to scale the human touch, finding that balance of what jobs are appropriate for machines to do themselves, what jobs should machines do to hand off to humans and what jobs should humans be doing from the get go. And that was episode seventy four with Steph called well, dowry, this has been awesome. In before I let you go, I want to do a few things in the first one is to give you the opportunity to thank or mention a person who's had a positive impact on your life or your career. Sure so. I think I would like to thank my family members, and they've never influenced me in any way, not in the wrong sense. They've let me do anything I want. So when I wanted to become a lecturer, they let me explore that opportunity. When I wanted to do testing, they let me do it. Then when I wanted to not work for some time, they let me do it. So and so this level of freedom is really important for you to grow as a human as somebody whom you enjoy being. So I think I would like to thank my family members, right from my mom till till my husband. So if I was told to do certain things in certain ways, I'm sure I might not have enjoyed it. But what I'm doing right now is something that I wanted to do and that's really helping me to bring the best out of me and intern it is also helping the company as a...

...whole to bring the best s Das, to bring the best customers support team, because the end of the day, I'll be happy if I if somebody can make what I was doing without without my presence. So that's that's what I feel as a success. To me, that's awesome. I really appreciate that call out in that love and trust in support allows all from the people around US allows us to be the best person we can be. That's awesome. And how about giving a thanks or a mention to a company or a brand that you use as a customer that you really appreciate the experience they deliver for you? Sure, so I think I would like to thank fresh works, because fresh works as a company we always look up for if we want to do anything, both on the sales or on the customer support or customer happiness side. So the way they have grown as huge in the last ten years very similar to our growth. Like they started with one product, then they slowly build many products surrounding the same ecosystem. So right now they have many products making sure that they all can be cross sold to the same customer base. So I think that's one bro one company we always I would like to mention here because they've got a they've got a brilliant strategy to help their customers. Excellent. And if someone wants to follow upon this conversation, if they enjoyed it, if they want to learn more about you or about KVII or about documentary six year, they want to check out the PODCAST, we're some places that you would send people to follow up on this sure always coboy Dot Co. Just look at our history page, our growth. How did we start this whole company? And we do a lot of community activities. So there are a lot of white papers. Whatever a product you want, there are a lot of white papers written by huge players and in the community and you can always email us, contact at coboy dot co and you will get the required support from us. So podcast, just drop me a linkedin message and I'll be there to host you, as a host has a guest super and for folks who are listening, we write up short write ups on all of these episodes. We drop in some video clips and video highlights of these and we also drop in links to some of the things that we talked about throughout the conversation. So if you did not write those links down, or you didn't write down knowledge based and Ninjas, or you want to connect with gowery on Linkedin, I'll have all those links at bombombcom slash podcasts and we do that for every episode. Gowery, thank you so much for your time. I enjoyed it very much and I hope you have a great rest of your day. Thank you, ea then, for this wonderful opportunity to talk about my progress, the growth and the company. So I'm really looking forward to see this going live and, yeah, enjoy, stay safe and take it off yourself and your sewn things. Clear, communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do, which is a little guidance. So pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and...

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