The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 11 months ago

110. The Inbound-Freemium Connection w/ Nicholas Holland


People are coming to your website because they actually want to evaluate you. Who you are online is something that absolutely impacts your business — whether positively or negatively, depending on how you’ve scaled. 


In this episode, I interview Nicholas Holland, General Manager and Vice President of Marketing Hub at HubSpot, about marketing considerations for improving website experiences.


Nicholas talked with me about:


- Why websites are so crucially undervalued right now


- The metrics that matter in on-site experiences


- What’s ahead for marketers in 2021


- Free vs. freemium at HubSpot and beyond


Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

I ask everybody: Are you in the rightchannels? Are you leveraging the data that you have or could have, and areyou effectively having something help you orchestrai an all of this? The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host, ethand Beaute, no matter your product or service, yourcustomers are checking out your website well before they're, ever talking toyour team or making a buying decision or taking the next step whatever thatmight be. So this onsite experience is a critical part of the customerexperience and one that, in my opinion, is a bit overlooked, undervalued orunderserved. So today's guest is more than prepared to help us with that anda lot more we're going to be talking some free and freemium as well. Hefound it and led three companies, including a microfunding and mentorshiporganization, just put entrepreneurs a microsites company in a botitueconsultancy, providing product management and custom Weban mobile apsnow he's at hub spot where he recently enjoyed his five year anniversary. Inthat time, he served as director of labs, which is a pretty cool title andVP of product in marketing. Today he's the general manager and Vice Presidentof Marketing Hub Nicholas Holland, welcome to the customer experiencepodcast aieten thanks for having me excited to be here, yeah me too. I lovethe topics that we're going to be taken on here and you're, the guy to discussthem, but before we get into it, I would love to be like you're, aNashville guy. It's part of your linked in URL. I have observed as someonewho's visited Nashville several times is definitely in it place. Get me aquick go at Nashville. What makes it awesome and how do you feel about it? Ayou know have thought in the past used to really talk about how one plus oneequals three, and it was like an all in one solution. F, flike natials, likeall in one city, you get four distinct seasons. It's awesome for singles youngpeople, families. It's got a pretty diversified industry as crazy as assound, so obviously, we're really well known for music and tourism, but healthcare is really big here. We've got a lot of stuff in like the auto industry,and the other part is, is it's like it's not it's like in the middle partof the United States. So you have a bunch of people who come here. So it'sa really interesting. Bland of you know if you're sitting in a room with tenpeople, you might have three locals and seven people whove moved here and Ijust kind of makes for a real friendly city. So it's got the all in one city.It's awesome. I love visiting it and I know a couple. People who've movedthere from a variety of places, all right. So, let's start where we alwaysstart Nicholas when I se customer experience. What does that mean to youou, I'm familiar with that question on your podcast and I would say thatthere's two parts that I think I would leave with your listeners and I tellPeopleis that one, it's all of the...

...touchpoints, we all kind of know themechanical, it's all of the touchpoints that the customer goes through in theirlead up to them, buying something and, of course, potentially building Thairrelationship afterwards. So the first thing is, I think people don't everlook at it but like if you can map all those out, even in just an outline,it's a long journey, but the part I thought might be interesting for youraudience. Is You ever give a presentation and you kind of step back?You've got twenty slides or you've written a memo, and you ask yourselflike what am I really wanting people to remember here? I think customerExperiencis, like that lingering residual muscle memory of how they feelabout the interaction with you and if you could step back and say like whatdo? I want people to remember about what their interaction has been with me.It totally changes the way you think about everything I love it and that youknow I just had a guest recently, a guy named Jeff Kayler, who is a magician bytrade but is doing a lot of customer experience. Work and the parallels arefantastic and he really did a nice job seeying. Something that you reallyraised up here and I think, is right on you can map this stuff, but even if youdon't go into the detail of every single touchpoint again, we all knowthe mechanics. If you just pick some of the most important ones and go with thelanguage that you use. There's like what do I want people to remember. Howdo I want to make people feel in this moment, if you just pick three or fourof those you're going to dramatically improvementic claourins or customers,haveit's awesome, so most people know hub spot, but you know for courtesy ofthe one person listening who doesn't give us a little bit about hub spot,maybe even go specific to marketing hub like who's your ideal customer. What doyou Sall for them sure to the one person who does know hov spot, welcomeand glad to introduce us, so heps pot originally started off as a marketingautomation platform. Specifia specifically doing this concept calledimbound, which was good for Marcers at basically said: Let's be good marketersgive value to get value, let you do content marketing and then it lets youobviously engage and nurture those people over the years we've expanded towhere we also want to put the customer at the center, and so we call it now agrowth platform and it comes to the crm and that crm powers, a myriad ocustomer interaction, so marketing hub it has a cms that it powers also has asales acceleration tool and then service, and so the way to think aboutit. If anybody's listening is like, if you needed a front office platform toreally provide a powerful easy to manage, but awesome experience for yourcustomers from the beginning attract to the engage and then to the delight sothat they come back again and refer others. We call that a flywell. That'swhat helps whyt. Does I really like that vision being realized? It'sinteresting. I've looked at. Obviously I've been paying attention to hub spotfor well over a decade, I would say- and I've learned so much from you knowall the content you've provided from the privilege of being able to talk tofolks, like you and it's interesting. I see this. You know as I get deeper intothis customer experience. Conversation that's ongoing. It reminds me of likeother trends of like companies having Cros or revenue operations, stead ofsales, OPS and marketing opps. You know...

...this idea of really tying together themarketing sales customer success. Customer Service Peece, together kindof under one roof, more collectively, aligned in part, I think, to managemore effectively all those touch points in a long customer relationship yeahthe you know. Ultimately, I think for yearswe've been aware of the customer experience even back into the s when mydad worked for some of the computer companies like Tandy. I remember themtalking about customer service and the smile and the experience when somebodywalks in to buy a computer and all that stuff. I think the reality is is thatyou know the customers have more power now. I think the competition is alittle bit more difficult to diffrenciate, because everybody's kindof you know running at a breakneck pace to compete, and I think that data andtechnology have become critical, not only just a win, but also just to saycompetitive. So if you take all of that and throw it into a bucket, what youhave is this world, where people are feeling the pains of more silos,they're feeling the pains of systems that you know they pick technology issupposed to help them, but it's disjointed and it's breaking down thecustomer experience it's breaking down their ability to see this picture, andso, when you talk about things like the revops role, that's coming outoperations and revenue ops. All of that really is a symptom of the fact thatyou know organizations are looking for people to tie the data, the systems andthe experience together, and so one of the ways that I me specificallyNicholas is my d. my task it Hulp Pot, is to always think about wheremarketing is going. You know I tend to think about marketers or, like thearchitects of that flywill, they kind of they should be the best trained tounderstand what the experience should be and they're motivated financially,if they're sitting at the revenue table they're motivated by it because now ondo they get credit for leads, but also, if you get customers to repurchase orthings like that, you know ut easier to keep a customer than to get that. So ifthey do that well, like the revenue operations, people and systems like hubspot and things like that, they just make that easier tied. All together,give you oversight of the data, help you spot the friction points and theproblems, and all of that really is in service when it all comes down to it islike the the you know that we say a lot of times. The way you seil is the wayyou win. You know. Basically, if the customer has that good experience, theyhave that lingering residual good feeling, then you have a better shot ofbasically them being part of that flywill buying from you again etce. Soit's all kind of in service of the stuff we've been working on for decades.It's just that the complexity keeps going up. The speed keeps going up andthe need for us to, but we don't there's not more people, it's stilljust us, so the need for systems to help us to do that. Its scale keepsgoing up and that's kind of how. I think, that's how I think thatmarketers are struggling N, how we can help them yeah. I really like that.You're that you're assigning the responsibility for managing theexperiences to marketers the same thing like Matt Sueezy at sales force WHO'sbeen on. The show is the same and a lot of the depending on who is coming on ointo these conversations with me. A lot...

...of folks see it of course, coming outof CS, but you know, I think, that's an organization by organization piece, butI appreciate your advocacy of marketing in it and it's certainly certainly anargument that I'm very familiar with and would definitely get behind. So youtalked about you know the pace of growth, the pace of change, etceteetcer. Let's kind of go what feels now a little bit old school. Give me youropinion on this. You know I feel like, especially in the face of like socialchannels and new features of some of the tools that were using, I feel likewebsites and especially blogs, feel a little bit overlooked and undervalue doyou buy that? Do you think that's true in if so raise up its importance forpeople that maybe put up a site? They maybe tweeted it a little bit. You knowa year and a half ago, but it's basically you know they're notdedicated to it as a critical part of a the customer experience and be you know,business growth and strategy yeah. Oh Man, there's a lot to impack there. Letme start with like a small couple of anecdotes that I think are interestingand then I'll pull back the number of times. I've heard that email is dead. The number of times I'veheard venders come out and tell me that forms are dead, and yet we see they're still as strongas ever. In fact, innovations are a plenty in those areas. Makes me realizethat, like you have to always go back and askyourself what is the the tool itself? What pain is it solving? What kind offunction is it in? So you no, we go into email. Obviously, it's it's a wayto communicate asynchronously and it's a broad universal medium that everybodyhas so so the deal is if you have a bad message, it's not effective. If youhave a good message, it is effective and and as more noise comes in there,it's harder for the user and as spam, protection and filters get better,there's more ability for you to get your noise. Your message across samething with forms, they're, ugly, they're, antiquated they're long. Youdo a bad job, poor performance, you make them slick, multistep, you're,getting into nice validation you helping the people out hit goes upanyways, I bring all tha ut, because websites are in the same vein. Iremember back in the I think in two thousand and six I was having astarting o a web design and eventually came a web application company Al Stuff.In and I remember, I made this statement at presentation one time: Doyou know why everybody has a website, you know it's becauseeverybody else has a website. You know the other day that they just know theyneed one and back then it was true was like everybody had a website becauseeverybody else had a website and they would redesign a website often becausea marketer would want to show that they were adding value, and that would bethe first thing they do hand. They took a role and man that went on for years.It was like you e, Get a new marketer every three to five years. You Ould Geta new website, and then you would basically do it because everybody elsehat and it wasn't driving real business value. The reality is that marketershad to level up technology had to level up business owners often had to levelup. I mean a lot of times. People would do a single ten to twenty five thousanddollar investment in the site and they didn't want to talk about it again forfive years, and I think now, where...

...we're at is a couple of things havehappened. So the first is that everybody expects to be able to getinformation. asynchonisally about you and so not having a website is aliability. I think everybody's pretty clear on this podcast that that's thecase, but having a website, that's actually pretty poor out of date. Youknow, Y, U you know the sites Fer, you see like a copy right, two thousand andeighteen, and it's two thousand and twenty now you're like what's going onto Botte rignt, that's actually a liability to, because it shows thatbasically, you aren't paying attention, you aren't focused, you aren't freshand new. This is actually you talked about social we're, seeing that now onsocial as well, which is people having antiquated social account. It'sactually more of a liability to have your last post be seven months ago,because it looks like you're a defunct out of business operation, so the barhas moved up where we all are in the game whether we want to be or not, andso every business owner- and I see a spectrum of them that think that thisis more like a tax or they just do it. Because of they're and they're behindthey're struggling they're actually hurting themselves, then you haveeverybody else, who's doing it because they think that it's you know it's yes,I understand I need to do it Etcea, I think, there's a chunky middle there,and now you have this new group, but they're not even like early adoptorsanymore. IULL. Call these like the innovators. It's like whe're a lot ofthe leaders in marketing a, and you know I don't know who, how you'relistener still, but they have steppd back and they say my God. This is thefront door to my business and think about the pandemic. This is like youknow. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on office renovations andsignage and all O Sai. We want to look professional. Our brand is important.Your sit is no different, but, more importantly, now people are coming toit, not just looking for a pretty face or a brochure they're looking to it,because they actually want to evaluate they want to get information. They wanta price check. They want to do a bunch of stuff along that journey, and sothis is a long answer, but effectively now a lot of marketers are starting tosee that, like the site has direct an indirect influence on revenue, andthere are things you can do to accelerate that, and many marketers arerecognizing now that they didn't have the tools or the reporting or themanagement structure around it, but now those that do that that treat it assomething that grows business. They began to get more interative on it.They work on it every month or every week. They, basically you know whatthey say is whatever gets measured, gets managed. They do that and theybegin to see that now, as you begin to get more and more percentage increasesof conversions or leads etca, it's having real business impact, that iswhere things are now and the there's a variety of tactics that drive that, butthat's where I think a lot of people's heads should be at awesome so much toto go back to by the way, if you're listening to this- and I encourage youto hit that sixty second back button, maybe twice depending on how long thatwas, but so much good stuff in there, an whatd ave made me. You know like onekey idea in there that I just want to bottom line. Is that you know marketingten fifteen years ago was campaign driven, you would plan it, you wouldbuild it all, and then you would release it and then you would move onright, N, Tet's to ten or twenty...

...fivesanddolar website. You're. Talkingabout you know, and then- and today it's just live. It's oungoing when Ifeel fortunate to have been in a business before a joining Bombom, wherethe work was live every moment of every day was a misse opportunity, and so Iat least had that mindset. If not, you know the experience to do the thingsthat you describe doing really. Well, let's go one step deeper here, becausethere's so much I want to do in a short amount of time with you. So let's goone step deeper there on some of those tactics like you know what metricsreally matter or what are what' some low haing fruit or some overlookedopportunities for people that are like Oh yeah. I guess we did do that websitelodge eighteen months ago. You know what are where a few things you wouldsteer people to in terms of like state of the art, Best Practices, and perhapshow do we keep customers top of mind in this decision making and execution?Rather than just you know, a conversion rate which does reflect you an behavior,but it doesn't reflect the human perse so like just go one step deeper interms of like websites in general. If someone wants to like do a quickevaluation make a handful of improvements, whereare some places,you'd steer people from practical standpoint yeah. I think if I was starting off withsomebody and just giving him baseline stuff, I would actually couple things. I would ask them tosecret shop themselves. We secret shop ourselves, there's no technology here,there's no like magical answer. It's literally you basically either paysomebody or you have I mean it's funny and Hewspit will sometimes have familymembers will do it and you have them go through it and effectively. You spotthe firn that way and you began to work on and crazy is firtion, so you havethem Goo Toan. What's crazy is the friction that they find maybemisspelling. It may be links that are broken, and maybe things like that, soI would do secret shopping number two. I would basically have them dosomething when it's after hours, because the thing is you know, rareconversation and live chat is really coming into play. Is that people aredoing a lot of their work when it's after hours they've been working allday now they want to work with your business after hours, and so how welldo you? Let them do that? How well can they self serve themselves and answertheir own questions? So there's that the number three thing I would do isthat you've got a baseline journey on your side. Al Rippe probably have likefill this out for a quote or get a ETA schedule, an appointment or call us orsomething like that. We came out with something called adaptive, page testing.You know it's a fancy way of saying that, like you should be doing some abtesting periodically and I don't think people do that, and I think it's scary,I think a lot of people don't do it because they don't know how to, but Iactually simplify a big time as essay like you know, just step on, go look atthe page like a normal human and just say: I'm going to go change a fewthings that I'm particularly curious about and then run that experiment. Youcan go, get th experimenting software for using Cubs Pot, it's really cool.We came out with something where you literally just make a separate versionin the system will tell you who wins, but that's some basic testing there justo see. If you did a Dr, you know two...

...different changes. What would do that?So? I think that ultimately, people don't know what non insiders thinkabout their the journey. They don't ever watch see it. I think people don'tbasically learn how to service people whenever they don't want to talk to ahuman or they want to do something after hours, and I think a lot ofpeople don't even run the first experiment. You know you want to be ingood shape. You want to be a good marketer, but you won't even go to thegym. It's really tough, and so I kind of ask people where they are on thatjourney. Of course you got the same thing of like looking at your analytics,your bolance rates and all that stuff, but I think those three things are onesthat I would have everybody do to get over. The Hump really good, let's gohire level people listening to. This will start listening to it near the endof two thousand and twenty, which is the most interesting year, probablythat I've been alive in my own experience, that's a separate. It's aseparate, podcast conversation. You know your job, as you said, is to likeknow where this is going in general. So you know for marketers or people whocare about marketing. You know. Is You look ahead to two Thousanda, twenty one,two thousand and Twentyt, two thousand and twenty two. You know what are youthinking about? I think three things we think about breadth of channels. Ithink that it's been, it's not been as fast as some people think, but it hasbeen pretty clear for a while that customers are diversifying to they wantto talk to y. You know they want to at mention you on twitter. Then they wantto send you a private message, maybe a DM. Then they want to chat with you onthe website. Then they may want to post on your facebook page. Then they maywant a text message, get a text message alert from you when their appointmentis then they want to. You know they use what APP so. Can you use that it's onand on to the channels or diversifying? So I think about the breadth ofchannels, and I ask each marketer, you know hey if you were to look at yourcustomer base right now and just think of all the channels that they use intheir personal lives. You know what are those channels and which ones are younot in, and should you be in so there's a breath of channels, then there's adepth of channel I look at which is you know. Marketing is not rocket science,its the right message to the right people at the right time. It's a wecall, THA system of engagement. The reality is. Is that to pull that off?Is Super Super Difficult because it's super asy to do a blast, but then maybehet's not right for everybody, but to give a one to one message at theperfect time that they want it super difficult. So we talk about the depthof information that you have on them and and and the ability to be able topersonalize it to segment to target. That's why I lot. I talk about like crmpowered marketing. A marketer should be a coowner of the CRM, so, whether it'slike the company crm or the marketer has a crm themself that sings to it.They should have that level of data. The last is orchestration. You know ifyou're a marketer and you feel like you just don't like I go back tooptimization when they say I just don't have the time to do it. That's a greatsignal that effectively they are spending a ton of time having toorchestrate all these different systems, datasets, etc. And so I think that whenI think about where things are going, I ask everybody: Are you in the rightchannels? Are you leveraging the data that you have or could have, and areyou effectively having something help... orchestrate all of this we'Ren,really nice helpful framework again and looking forward to putting together theshort notes on this one? What wo do for every episode of Bombom, docom, Lashpodcast, and you can see Nicholas and you can see me- I keep myself in it,but if you want to bring some of these episodes to life, we always do that atBombomcom. Slash podcast, I'm goint to switch up years a little bit, because Ithink it's a really important and interesting conversation. I would Iwould love to hear from your perspective, like the hub spot journeyinto fremium. You've obviously been a part of it in a couple of your rulesthat Hap spotof course, including now talk about fremium as a direction forhub spot, and then maybe you can take it anywhere. You want, but maybeadvantages, disadvantages any assumptions as you were, as you were,going on this journey that Ou that were spot on or dead wrong, like anythinghave to like talk about the motivation and maybe some of the decision makingand learnings along the way. A bunch of things came together that helped us getthere. So the first fremium is a well known tactic effectively for thoselistening. If you get a chance to read Chris Anderson's book on free, iteffectively start studying like how Jello use free and Gillette use free,etce and what it comes down to is, when you do a freemium model, you're,effectively, building a relationship or trust at no cost. You know, of course,there is some cost, it's freese in like puppies and beer, but at the end of theday it's like it's. You know you give a chance to have a much lower cost tobuilding a relationship and the companies that do that. What they thenrecognize is that they are starting Tho customer journey and they're starting ajourney of building trust, so someone has done their evaluation, that's offbrand or off asset and then they've come and it's the first time. Youstarted to build that trust. So for us in particular, we started our journey along time ago. withinbound, we said Hey, give value away to get someone'scontact information and build a relationship you give value to getvalue and that used to always come in the form of e books or content, blogpost, etc. Over time, though, what you realize is the second trend is softwareis eating the world. So you've heard that if you followed a lot in the andthe COM, age, etcetera, softwares, eating the world and what thateffectively means is that we are on computers all day, long, we're on ourphones all day long and so anything that helps our life. That's you know onthose devices is software. So, as you begin to look at your customer base,you begin to ask Yourself: Oh okay, I want to give value to get value. I wantto build this trust with fremeum. I can give away content or I can give awaycode, and so you've got a content funnel and now you got a coke about,and it's not as complex as a lot of people think you know, I see a bunch ofcompanies giving way excale templates, giving away calculators, they've builta little biddy MICROAPP that they've done is really awsome. So for us wethought to ourselves. We want to give value before we get value, follows ourethos of inbound. We want to build trust early on. That was that and thenwe effectively believe that software is...

...eating the world. So how could we givepeople an experience of our software to do that, so we started with Freemium,so we've got the freecrm. We then followed on and moved on to bringingdown free tools and marketing forms ads, email that were down there. Then webrought on the free help desk, and so you know when I look at helpsfir rightnow, you know I call it like what an amazing platform and value I would havekilled for this whenever I was doing my startup dates and it's all free. So wehave all these free tools that we give and it allows you to build the trust itallows you to effectively. Let people start to get something of value beforethey get that and then for us. The way we've structured it is that we havesome branding powered byhubs pot on there, and if you don't like that, thenof course you can pay, it has some limits. If you begin to use it as abigger company, you can of course pay but outside of that it's not an agwuire,it's not cripple where it's actually good value. So the pitfalls, though, ofthat of what we've learned, is that if you do a freemium funnel, especially ifyou're making live software but's a calculator, maybe not the same or adownloadable, but free users expect everything, just like a paid user, butthey pay you nothing, and this can be crippling nd hard on people. But for uswe love it because one of the things that we are looking for is feedback onthese tools as well, and so free users give you an enormous amount of feedback.You know they will tell you exactly things that they don't like. They willleave the software F. They don't want to, and so you know long story shortfor your users. You can give code away to attract users, but you do need torealize that they have expectations to the journey is starting in. So if yougive it away, you are building that trust in your free software should meetthe needs that they want, but they do have high demands and they don't pay,and so you should learn how to basically get into that. But it is avery, very powerful technique that almost every software company is usingnow, and this is the reason why yeah, I love it for folks that are listening, Imean the graters that help spot release like years ago, like it was bineblowing to me at the time. So I love this language. You provided aroundcontent funnel versus code, funnel really really good recommendations. Youknow, hob spot is obviously an awesome company you're, my third and a halfguest, as I like to think about, I had the entire a longtime sales guy. I hadMike redboard who, at the time, was GM of the of the service hub Tadhockinberry, who is not a hub spot employee, but you know coauthoredinbound Organia, which was one of my favorite books that I read last year.You know at your five year anniversary your look of course past it, but youknow talk about your progression from director of labs, which again is one ofthe coolest titles. I've ever seen to vpgm of marketing have like thoughtsreflections like anything. You want to share about your experience within theorganization. It's been a fun road. I think things that would be interestingto your listeners. When I first came into contact with hupspot. I looked atthe culture deck it's on. Slag. Chair is a place. You can go. Look at it man,I thought to myself wow, you know one...

...ors, don't usually codify their culture.I highly recommend it and, more importantly, what I love is that thatculture code comes up still today. You can be in the middle of a meeting andno matter what tour level or title you are in the company. If someone wants totag, you on, you know violating something on the culture code or notbeing empathetic as an exampled. thand everybody listens, so they take thatseries. That was, that was a real good observation. When I came to Hubspot tothe director of labs was an interesting thing which you know it evolved ourthinking over time, but we tend to think about an hub spot. How do you putenergy into what you have to do today to serve customers versus investing inthings you might have to do tomorrow? You know the book, the innovator'sdilemmas is, you know effectively. You did something awesome. You had inovatedeverybody and you've got it, but if you try to hold onto it everything elsemooths you know, and so that's been really challenging, and so labs wassome of the first efforts to where do they put some brainpower intoinnovation versus just you know: Servicing Customers today, we've sinceevolved to where every team puts you know some percentage of their time intoinnovation. But I think that was an observation and en I think last I thinkthe other part that we've learned here tat have spot. Is You know people talkabout putting the customer at the center of stuff, and I didn't really appreciate for yearswhat that meant, because I didn't really quite understand all of the datapoints that come with a customer. I didn't understand really honestly evenough new marking. Will I didn't understand that you know, even when youget the envoice, it's part of your customer journey. You know when you geta late bill when you get like that's all part of it, and you know the Best Ican tell you is that you know what I started to give us an anecgote is it'swhen you buy a product and right after that, you get an email from the companyoffering you to buy that product. That's an example of where I juststarted to recognize just how much more we should know about our customers toreally make it good for them, and the bar really has continued to move up formarketers to get that done so, but those are some of the journeys I'vekind of come along with, and I'm really, I feel fortunate to work at a company.That's like we are banging our heads on this problem every single day, yeah.It's awesome I, and for folks that are listening inbound organization. If youwant to get into culture and some of the processes in frameworks, Dan tyranand tod hockenberry do a great job. Breaking that down and kind of. Welcomeyou welcoming you into that culture. I really enjoyed that one very much andthank you for sharing some of those personal details to, and it is funny Imean so many of us like as a marketer myself. You know you think about the customer from Your Own PerspectiveHut, trying to think about the customer, interacting with your work and the workof your team members that you heard about in the weekly meeting with yourfellow marketers, and so you think about the emails they're, opening thesocial post that they're looking at the videos that they're watching EtceteaEtcra and it's so easy to lose sight of this more holistic view, and that's whyit's been such a pleasure for me to... these conversations with peoplethroughout different organizations, from marketing to sales, to Cs andbeyond, and I love that you went to the envoice there, because it's just a kindof perfect little microcosm of that matters a lot it matters a lot and noone's in general. Historically, not many people have thought about. That isone of those moments that matter and how does someone feel when they getthat invoice? And you know how can we manage that better? So, if you've beenenjoy this conversation, you will also probably enjoy episode. Forty with DanTyre, who again, is the sixth employeet hub spot in a longtime sales executivethere, his trained a bunch of people and we called episode forty, thebiggest transformation in prospecting in thirty years. That one was in factabout video. So we talked a bit about Communio, wit, video yeah and thenepisode. Forty five with West Bush, who was the author of product, led growthand the founder of the product led institute, and we talked he's bigfremium guys how blaunched a bunch of fremium services, and so we call thatone, the modern buying process and product led growth. So you can get somemore kind of pros and cons, and is this right for me? We exclusively focusthere. So if you found some of Nicholas's insights there and things toconsider and some of the things they learned on their journey and thephilosophy that drives it, that's a full conversation there on episode,Forty five so Nicholas this has been awesome. I really really appreciate youtaking the time to do it, but before I let you go and a give you a fewopportunities in the first is to think or mention someone who's had a positiveimpact on your life or your career. Appreciate that I would like to thankmy grandfather. He said something one time that, I repeat often he said youknow Nicholas Rarely, will something maker break you rarely will one thingmake you super successful or one thing completely break you it's possible, butrare. He said the way to look at it is it's the culmination of all the littlethings that you do so is like I tend to think of it is marbles. You know if youwant to get towards a goal, if you want to be in a certain place in life, ifyou want to change something, you know every time you make progress towardsthat, it's a white marble. Every time you don't do that to blue marble, andso you know, if you begin to do that, and you think about your jar. Are theremore white marvels in there than blue marbles, and I think that that's it'shelped me understand when I am making progress Whyam and when I'm not makingprogress. Why I'm not so that's there? I love it power of habit and discipline,among other things, so good. I've only had a handful of folks mentioned familymembers. I love that you went with your grandfather how about Nicholas acompany that you really respect or a brand for the experience that theydeliver for you as a customer. I love Taco Bell. I think that I've loved them since I've been young,so it could be partially some sort of Notalgia, but you know if you thinkabout it from a customer experience tampoint. I love that it's fast. I lovethat it's squarely focused on value.

It's a good taste for an excellentprice. I love the fact that it's open lated. I love the fact that it'sbasically six ingredients mixed up in all sorts of crazy ways, t that sothere's you know gotta. I would love to talk to the product person behind theirMINU because I'm like I know you can't put a new ingredient in there. But howdid you come up with this but overall- and I just think ultimately to it- it nails all of thefundamentals for me as a customer, so there is Taco Bel, that's awesome and Ilove these site like I have not thought Ol much about Taco Bell, but this ideaof taking six ingredients and mixing them and do a variety of products likeI've seen so many case. Studies of businesses that introduce unnecessarycomplexity by bringing in new ingredients to expand the menu, whichthen means I need new equipment, which then means I have a higher cash lay out.I need to train my employees differently. I love it Sim becausethat's how you keep the value and I've never connected the dots until you justsaid that, but we we do something inside a hub spot. We call primarycolors reporting as a primary color. Automation is a primary color. The datathat we stores a primary color content as a primary color, anyways and what'sfunny, is obviously we work with the marketers. We work with the salespeopleto service people, but those primary colors are the things that we heavilyinvest in that raise the boats up for everybody, so man think about that. Sosix ingredient, six primary colors, five par main colors of it, thenonnegotiables, the things that not onnegotiabe the very large whitemarbles, that's the bowlders. This is good awesome. I really enjoyed thisNicholas were recording this on a Friday. So I wish you an awesome Fridayafternoon in a wonderful weekend. People want to follow up on thisconversation. How can they connect with you or with marketing hub or with hubspot wors in places? You would send people if they enjoyed this yeah peoplealways wide open. You can catch me on twitter. You can hit me up on Facebook,My messengers Nicholas Dodel, dot, Holland and, of course, Youcan email meat in Holland that have spotcom so just yeah anytime. You want to wrap anybodyabout marketing hit me up awesome. Thank you so much. I really reallyappreciate your time all right. Thank you. So much cheers clear communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance,so pick up the official book, Rehumonize Your Business, how personalvideos, accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in ordertoday at Bombamcom book, that's Bo, mb, Tombcom Boock, thanks for listening tothe customer experience. podcast remember the single most importantthing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for yourcustomers, continue. Learning the latest strategies and tactics bysubscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombomcompodcast.

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