The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

15. You Have 100 Days to Create or Lose Lifelong Customers w/ Joey Coleman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You've got a hundred days to make customers for life.

Do you know what tools to employ to guarantee they’ll stay?

Joey Coleman does. He is a speaker and writer who's deeply steeped in the customer experience. He's the founder and chief experience composer at Design Symphony [TK: there is no URL for “Design Symphony” - this link is to his consulting website joeycoleman.com], and the author of Never Lose a Customer Again, Turn Any Sale into Lifelong Loyalty in 100 Days.

Coleman visited our podcast recently and shared his secrets to converting customers for life.

Golf and customer experience andcustomer servire o used interchangeably, and I personally avoid that, because Isee customer service as being a reactive, behavior, you're listening to the customerexperience podcast a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businessesrestore a personal human touch throughout the customer line cycle, getready to hear how sales, marketing and customer success experts surprise anddelight and never lose sign of their customers. Humanity here is your hostEfen beaute. Congratulations you've successfullybrought on a new customer, but guess what they are on the clock. You've gota hundred days to make them a customer for life. According to today's guestwho you were going to love great energy, great insights he's a speaker andwriter WHO's, deeply steeped: Ind customer experience he's the founderand chief experience composer at Design Symphony. Something he's been doing formore than a dozen years he's the author of one of the best books that I've readin the past year never lose a customer again turn any sale into lifelongloyalty in one hundred days. Joy Coleman welcome to the customerexperience podcast thanks. So much he's then absolutely thrilled to be here. Iam a huge fan of Bombam, I'm a huge fan of the work you all are doing in themarketplace and was tickled bank when you reached out and asked if I'd Lekecome on the show, it's a real honor. So thank you yeah. Thank you forParticipang and I didn't know how familiar you were with what we were upto and we're just chatting before. We hit Recordng, so I think we'll get intothe power of video because in never lose a customer again. You reallyprovide a number of different ways to employ it for that more personal andhuman touch. But we'll start here with where I always start, which is definefor me and for the listener's customer experience when I say customerexperience. Where does that mean to you? What does it conjure? What are itscharacteristics? Yeah, so to me, customer experiences, a feeling: it'sthe emotions that your customers undergo or navigate through, or havethrust upon them by their interactions with you, I think often customerexperience and customer service ar used innerchangeably, and I personally avoidthat, because I see customer service as being a reactive behavior, what you dowhen something goes wrong or when the customer raises their hand and says Ineed help or I need something, whereas customer experience is a proactiveactivity, it's what you do before the customer even raises their hand, ormaybe even before theyv become a customer to make them have a deeperconnection with your brand or your product, O you're, offering to makethem have a more personal connection with who you are, what you're doing andthe kind of build that into the actual touchpoints and interactions that youcreate for them. So you've offered something. That's completely holistic.You've identified something that's really important. A lot of people when,when we talk about how to implement customer experience, will punt it andleave it down in the customer success customer support team. Have you you doa ton of speaking teaching consulting writing in all of your consultationlike what have you seen or how do you advise people to raise it up out of thesilo thing, because even a really good company, where people communicate wellacross teams and stuff, there's still a silo to oh he's, a sales guy? Oh He's amarketing guy, oh she's, a customer success person. How do we raise this upso that it is integrated from start to finish across these touch points? Sure?Well. I really appreciate that, because I grew up in Iowa in a little farmingcommunity and you drive past any farm, and you see lots of Greein silos andsilos are absolutely fantastic on a farm and they're, absolutely horrificin an organization. I understand why they were created. I understand thebenefits of the organizational hierarchy and creating departmentsbased on function, but in wo thousand and nineteen and beyond that. Justdoesn't work anymore, because the...

...customer wants you to have completeinsight into their relationship with you. They don't want to be punted downthe line to the next division or the next department. So I think it'simportant for your employees to be able to have a clear lens into the fullscope of the relationship with the customer, as it relates to theexperience and how do we elevate that conversation out of customer success? Ithink we have a couple of challenges. Historically, they are starting tochange number one. If you look at the bulk of CEOS and senior leadershipteams, they came up through the ranks of sales are marketing. They didn'tcome up through the ranks of account management. It's not a criticism on howthey got there. It's the reality of the path that, depending on whose studiesyou look at, represents forty to seventy percent of senior executives.So the CEO is predisposed to acquisition over retention just by thevery nature of their own personal career. On top of that, we throweconomics, economic shares that more money is spent on marketing in salesand acquiring that is spent on retention. So when many organizationswhere the dollars go is where the attention goes, there's apredisposition to focus on bringing them in the door instead of keepingthem once they've come in the door. The third problem we run into- and thisgets to those silos issues and very few organizations. His customer experienceits own silo. Usually it's reporting up to whom sales are marketing, who arepredisposed to talk about acquisition instead of rettention. So we havehierarchical issues. We have structural issues, we have budgetary issues andthat doesn't even begin to be the tip of the iceberg when we consider thephrase that for many years was the Montra and businesses around the world.This is business, not personal, and so this belief that we weresupposed to isolate, feeling and emotion from a business, interaction orpeople. Saying Joe, you don't understand, we sall be to be okay. Thisis business to business well, fulks, at the end of the day, there's a human atthe other side of that this is htoh. This is human to human, and theresearch actually shows that even in bbb setting when a customer to be to beenvironment makes a purchase, they still feel the same buyers remorse thata customer who makes an individually personalized purchase feels, and infact the stakes may even be higher, because in your home life, if youpurchase the wrong rice cooker no one's getting fired in Your Business World.If you sign up for the wrong crm software or by the wrong HR platform orby the wrong chairs for the office, you might end up losing your job based onyour bb purchase decision. So I think, there's a lot of reasons why customerexperience ends up not being a bigger part of the conversation, but whe we'restarting to see with the most cutting edge and progressive firms is elevatingthat role, creating a chief experience officer who resports directly to theCEO, not to another person in the sea suide, so that voice of the customer nopunintended is being heard more often so good. I think the well I'm just going to give you a linefrom the book to pick up on that was right there. This you know you'retalking about the connection which human connection, personal connection,personalized customize. These are all words that are very well seenthroughout the book, but you wrote to never lose a customer again. You mustmeet your customers where they are in their emotional journey. Talk aboutbecause you know where you are here is one really important aspect toconnecting his empathy, and I read empathy there like this meeting. Peoplewhere they are emotionally to me is the medium and more fun way to say empathy.Why is ampyfe so important? I think HEU've already talked about why it'shard right were there's a cultural shift that needs to happen to besincere and to practice real customer empathy, as opposed to you know,leaving a seminar and saying, like I...

...heard about empathy and I feeldifferent, like there's a gap there, and you talked about some of thehistorical structural foundations that prevent it. But you know why is empathyso important and how are people doing that? Well, what does that look like inreal life e en? I love that you alighted on the concept of empathybecause you're right, I don't refer to it by specific word necessarily in thebook, and that was a conscious decision on my part that I don't think we'rethere. Yet. I think we're close that's going to be a future book, because Ithink that empathy is going to become the great differentiator in businessand here's why the computers, the AI, the robots, can figure out everythingelse very quickly and very easy. The hardest thing. If you talk to AIresearchers for them to figure out, it's going to be empathy, and theproblem is empathy which I would imagine you and I would agree, is oneof the most useful skills as a human being to have is a skill that is ingeneral, is not taught in any education model. If you want to find it in a book,you really have to look hard and what you usually get is something that isway overly technical about the science and psychology of emotion or very lipservice. Oh Yeah, you need to be more empathetic. I think the benefit ofempathy in a business setting is that it icknowledges the emotional journey.The customers on see the most obvious place. This shows up is right after thepurchase. Now I imagine, all of your listeners are familiar. The greatmajority are familiar with the phrase: buyers, remorse the research chows usthat whenwe make a purchase. Even though we're excited about the purchase.DOPA mean floods, aure brain, we feel joy, happiness euphoria. This is goingto be the product of the service. It's Eeng answer to our dreams, almost asquickly as we make that purchase the clock starts ticking and as thedopemine recedes, those feelings are of joy. Aufory and excitement are replacedby feelings of fear and doubt and uncertainty in common PARENC, pyersremorse. The problem with that from a business setting is while we're allback at the head office, high fiving and celebrating that we just landed thenew client. The clien is sitting in their office alone, wondering if theymade the right decision word an emotional peak they're in an emotionaltrough, and if we don't acknowledge the Delta between those two points and takeaction to close the Delta between those two points, we're in for a prettynightmareish ride, going forward where one party in the relationship isfeeling joy, ouforein excitement the other one is feeling feared out anduncertainty and if you've ever gone to a horror movie with somebody whodoesn't like scaring movies, that's kind of an reference point, maybe fromour personal lives or we can see, they don't want anything to do with it. Theywant to get out of it as quickly as possible and if we don't address thatwe're in for problems, so you said we're on the clock in this scenario andpart of the subtitle there is the hundred days. Is it? Is there magic tothe first hundred days it's about three months? It's a quarter little bit morethan a quarter to use you know business shure outside of business. Is anyonethinking quarters? No, not that I'm aware, I think I think football playersrigt or it's a completely different context. So yeah talk about talk aboutthe clock and talk about the hundred days, maybe in this specific buyers,remorse, tynamicit, but ib, but even above that, like what is that windowall about yeah? So he what fascinates me and that this is where the originalgenesis for the whole idea behind never lose a customer again came from. Ifound myself reading a study one night and yeah. That's how exciting my lifewas on bank retention, Bank customer retention and what the study pointedout was the fact that thirty, two percent of people who open a new bankaccount we'll have closed that bank account before the one year anniversary.I don't know if you've opened a bank account recently. Even it's not fun.It's lot of joys. It takes a long time you have to go in in person. You haveto show ID aftor give hem money. You have to wait your old account to allthe checks or the payments clear you...

...have to set up direct deposit. You haveto get a new ATM card, maybe new TREX, it's not fun, and yet almost a third ofthose people leave before the one year anniversary. But what really got myattention is that over half of those people leave in the first hundred daysand I startd looking at how banks behaved and they reward new clientsignup Bonuses Summer Between Day Ninety and one hundred. Why? Becausethey've learned that if they keep you today, one hundred and one in thetypical bank they'll keep you as a customer for a minimum of five years.This sparked curiosity in me, and it led me to say if bankers who is ageneral Wule, usually pay pretty close attention to the bottom line and thenumbers are willing to accept thirty, two percent annual churn annualdefection. What about folks that don't pay attention to the bottom line andwhat I found in looking at industries around the world from every corner thatyou might imagine, is it somewhere between twenty and eighty percent ofnew customers will either actually leave Your Business in the firsthundred days or wi'll mentally check out and decide that when the term oftheir contract is over, they will not renew. I think this is the biggestthreat facing business today than hardly anyone is talking about. Why?Because it's not as sexy to talk about retension is it is to talk aboutacquisition and, as a result, companies are bleeding out their hemoraging offthe side of their operations and nobody seems to be paying attention yeah. Wecall that selling out of a hole, I mean, obviously, as a software company on asubscription basis, monthly or annual. You know it's obviously a big deal thatwe pay attention to and we look at it as selling out of a hole it's like. Why are we going to make acquisitionbuild the company out of a hole and we need to yeah it's tough whut and what'sintering in the software com industry? If I may, the group of people that havefigured this out the most are the vcs that specialize in software is aservice, because if you look what's happening in Silicon Valley and in theVC world, they are giving enhanced valuations to companies that havesmaller turn rate. It's the first time that across an entire industry, this ishappening its scale and the valuations are anywhere from three to Fivex,greater for a company that has a lower turn rate than the exact same productof tha higher turn rate, so they've figured it out and thes the old line inBCS and politics goes follow the money wherever the money is going. That'susually the trend that you want to be part of which is paying more attentionto your turn, an defection so important, because it speaks to all the things that to me. If you havea very, very low thurn rate, it's not just about the churn rat and theability to stack the revenue in the SAS model, even though it is the upstream implications of that orthat you're doing so many things. Well, that you must be a well run company.You know who's, providing a great customer experience so and that's justthe outbound perception what about the internal perception of employeeexperience. So what we find is that we enhance customer experience. We bydefault, enhance employee experience, theyre two sides of the same point, andso, as your customer retention increases, your employee retentionincreases and we look at to the biggest line item costs in most businesses.It's the amount of money, they're spending on people and the amount ofmoney they're spending on marketing in sales. So if I can help you inprove themargins in both of those, I dramatically increase the overallprofitability of your organization and we don't even so, for the beencountersthat makes them happy, but for the people who have hearts not say thatbeing counters, don't it makes them happy because they feel better aboutcoming to work. Morale goes through the roof and I will say that is the thingthat I have noticed the most from companies who have implemented themethodologies I talk about in the book and have implemented a first hundredday strategy. The number of personal messages I get from readers and peoplehave been in the audience. When I speak Tootd, say joy. The thing that shockedme was I'm keeping my employees. My employees are more excited to come towork, they're coming up with better ideas, they're going the extra milethey're doing more and it's like wow...

...the correlation and the connectionbetween these two is so strong, but most companies never get to thatconversation yeah. It's pride in ownership. What you can flip thatswitch with half or two thirds or three quarters of the team members? It's justa it's a positive upward spiral or a Halo effector, whatever you want to sayto like we're getting more good than we ever thought out of it, so good. So inthe book, one of the things that got me excited and thank you again formentioning your awareness and appreciation of what we're doing withour business. You talk a lot about video and that got me so excitedbecause it's something I've been thinking about and talking about andpracticing and teaching ever yeaers myself. But you know you do it throughyour et. We won't get into the details of your eight park framework. Irecommend that you go out and purchase. This is for the listeners that you Joa.I can see you already have a couple couple copies here. I cannot recommendhighly enough. Never lose a customer again, it's fun to read it' superpractical and there's an eight part framework from before this person iseven close to being a customer all the way through retention and advocacy, andit's a really smart play. But what got me really excited about weeting it?Just what lit me up was all the applications that you saw for video.Can you talk a little bit about you gave in the book at the end of everychapter, really provocative questions and really practical next steps aroundyou basically make give video equal footing as in person email on the phoneetceter you break down the different channels that we can use to connect andcommunicate with people and give video equal weight, which I haven't seen in abook like yours before so I was just excited to ask you about video a littlebit what what about video is so exciting for you and what are some ofthe great moments in a well delivered customer experience that that you'veseen that really got you excited well a couple of thoughts on that eat Hannumber one. I think video is uniquely positioned halfway between the digitalworld and the analoge world, and what I mean by that is, it gives us theclosest proximation of an inperson meeting without having to be in person.So it gives us all the benefits of being able to do connection at adistance and that scale without needing to physically go there, but becausethey can actually see us and they can watch our body language and see ourenthusiasm and see the way we're moving, because, depending on whose studies youlook at, you know what sixty to ninety percent of what we read and why wetrust someone to appreciate them is what we can see visually. It allows usto bridge that gap number two and part of the reason I love what you've donewith Bommam is it's a technology that is actually pretty easy to use, andyour sofpware makes it incredibly easy to use in an era where it's onlyrecently become easy to use. It used to be. If you want to send a customervideo, you better have a full time videographer on staff to shoot thevideo to edit. The video to add music and Etcea, whereas now the researchactlor shows, at least in a sales context, a hadheld selfie video shot onan iphone with poor lighting and adequate sound converts better than astudio, shot video. Why? Because it feels more authentic. It feels morereal. Additionally, we're it. A weird time in human history were right. Now,video Sentdi, a text message right so either facetime videos or somequickshot video, that's texted over- are generally reserved forcommunications, with immediately immediate family members being on theroad and sending a video back home for the kids to watch connecting onfacetime with Graham and GRANDPA on Sunday night, whatever it may be. Sowe're at this interesting conflucx are period in time where these type ofpersonal videos are normally reserved for family and there's barely a companyon the planet that I can't go to their website and find some mention of thefact that when you become a customer of...

...ours, you become ACTMECORP family. Weconsider you as family, that kind of messaging the fact that we might use acommunication tool- that's already predisposed or subpasos to be a toolfor family members in a business context. I think, takes therelationship to another level very quickly, then, when it comes toexamples of company using videos. Oh my gosh you're right, I mean there's fortysix Ke studies. In the book I tried hat from small medium in large companiesfrom all around the world. I tried to pick companies that were doing reallycreative things. A couple quick touches number one: There's company calledZOJECTS: That's an online e commerce business that makes Jim Wipes. Okay, Idon't know if you've ever been in the gym working out, you've seen the resideof the human who worked out before you on the bench. Well, Jim Wipes allow youin an environmentally friendly aniseptic way to clean off that bench.So there is an nonvoluntary DMA transfer, okay, they sell their gymwipes online. You go online. There are many businesses that sell online thatare dying to have a human connection with their customers right because theynever meet them. In person, what sachict does s that is brilliant is theday that you buy. They send you a confirmation, email now, a lot ofECOMMERCE companies send confirmation emails zocics in beds of video that hasa picture and or a gift of the employee holding a clipboard that says thank youethan or thank you, Joe Youre thankying, the name of the customer right. Soimmediately you see that as the thumbnail, you want to click play rightin the same way that you're holding up a sign right now, you you know eoneJaeah exactly so. If somebody holds up that video they're going to watch andwhat they do is that watch you, the video just thanks them from the order tpersonally shot it's less than a minute long. Here's the interesting thing,there's actually mistake in the book and every author hates it when there'sa mistake in the book right, but it's the nature of publishing about twoweeks after the book came out. The C of sojects called me and he goes Joey. Wegave you the wrong data. I'm like! Oh Man, are you kidding me what's prommygoes. We gave you the wrong date on how many of the people that get theconfirmation video actually watch it, and I was like- and I my stomach justdrops- he says yeah, we didn't have it properly connected on the back end. Soas it turns out the number we gave, you was too small. It's seventy. Eightpercent of our customers watch the video completely on a confirmation,video nony of your listeners that work in e commerce kno the typical reed rateon a confirmation. Email is somewhere between four and eight percent acrossall industries. If you've got a seventy, eight percent watch to completion ratewith somebody that you have no relationship other than they just gaveyou some money to buy your product that they've never received or never triedbefore you're doing something right. So that's one example of a company that isincredibly using video in a way that I don't think many companies are usingvideo to create that kind of personal and personalized connection reallyearly. In the first hundred days, I like that you drew out there personalversus personalizeit's, a line I like to draw out a lot like to me. I usepersonalized for the veryvariable data inserts or the really nice netflixemail, like hey joe, you watch the first five seasons of parks and Rakguess what season six is available right. I like it, and I do and that'sawesome. It's personalized superrelevant. I forward it to my Wato.You might forward it to your wife or whatever, and- and you know it's reallyhelpful with this personal element where you let someone know that it'sjust for him or her just walk that out for people, because I think one of thethemes I want to explore in these conversations with a smart people likeyou is, you know we need to be able to scale our businesses and and sopersonalized and customized machine driven. Even if there's a humantouching it at some point is great, but when, when in a scaled business, can weafford to get truly personal because I think a lot of people say well, I don'thave time for that. I can't afford that,...

...of course implied in everything youshare so far, O okays. I don't know that you can afford not to do it rightexactly right right, but but coach people coach people into that, a littlebit like when, when can you rely on the machine nd when you need a real humanto put a real moment into the experience in the life cycle? Yeah,I mean at this point even I think it's probably more art than science, it'sdifficult to know exactly when you need to do it, but I'll tell you how Iusually see a playout. Typically, when somebody starts a business, they arehyper personal in their communications. Why? Because they have one or twocustomers they can afford to be. They Hav all the time in the world. They'vefinally got someone to sign on for their product or their service andthey're, holding that person very carefully in the palm of their hand,creating personal communications with them in every touch right, theyre rightthere, but then, if we found our job right, our business grows and we startto have some level of success. We hire more employees which, by the fault,makes the connections less personal because you have more people servingthe same client. People serving the client who they may never meet or maynot even know, is serving them behind the scenes not to mention we have moreclients. So then we have a tendency to shift from the personel to thepersonalized. In the ideal scenario, we create more generic things that arepersonizer. We use machine, learning or ai to be able to make messages thatfeel personalized like the Amazon and Netflix recommendations, but we allknow as a computer doing that not a human. In my experience, the bestcompanies are the ones that come full circle that once that is established,they lay or new icing on top of it. That brings it back to the personal,and now they call out the specific messages. It doesn't take that much tosend a personal message to a client one supporter. It really doesn't. Even ifyou just said all the clients, ime responsible for today is the thirdFriday of the second month of the quarter, and this is my personal daywhere all I'm going to do is shoot videos and send custom messages, horescustom emails or call my clients Ar Gold visit them in person, and I'mgoing to really make it about them. Not Me, you don't have to do this all thetime the pushback I get from most folksis Joe. You can't do this itsscale, it's too hard. When you know what business is hard, that's whatyou've signed up for. If we dodn't want to sign up to be in Visitut, there's alot of other jobs. You can go. Do that aren't as hard as running a businessokay, and I think you need to most business owners- need to do a betterjob of empathizing and teaching their employees about the importance of this,because here's something I've come across recently to I've observed thisfor a while, but it kind of got brought into the big picture very recently. Youcan't ask your employees to create a remarkable experience for yourcustomers if they have no idea what a remarkableexperience is, and the bar for customer experience, at least in the UnitedStates- and I would posit globally, is lying on the ground. Okay, there's thetypical person has very little context, quick stor, an how this came up. I wasworking with Co. He wanted to bring me into work with this whole team. He saidJoey. We want to deliver first class Ritz, Carlton White Glove Service,isaid great, we got everybody together, said here's ha question before we startthe daylong workshop, I like to ask some questions and raise your hand ifthis applies to you, how many of you 've ever flown first class, the CEOproudly raised his hand. The head of sails raised his hand. No one elseraised their hand as a great how many of Youve ever stateed a rich Carlton,the CEO raised his hand, the CE or the head of sales put the hand down, and noone else had their hand up. He said, okay last question: How many of youhave ever had a meal where it was delivered by waiters wearing whitegloves even the CEO put his hand down. I turned in the CEO and I said it'svery difficult to ask our team to deliver first class rich Garlton WhiteGlobe service. If they don't know what that is, and I think the same thing applies toevery business. If you want your employees to deliver remarkableexperiences, you need to be a...

...remarkable employer. You need todeliver remarkable experiences to them and once they have a taste they'regoing to want to pay it forward, they're going to want to give it toother people and they're going to have a context for what that looks like andthey're above all, they're going to know how it feels to be on thereceiving end, and once I mean you said it before, you said it before. I justput it together now like knowing how it actually feels and being able to arecognize how fun and exciting it is to experience it and then, on the otherside, how fun and exciting it is to watch people experience it or get thoseemail replies or to get those unsolicited pieces of feedback fromyour customers as you're doing this it just lights. Hem Up. I love this. Thistheme of this relationship between employees and customers and having tomodel the behavior right and being able to experience it that the best way todeliver great customer experiences to deliver great employee experience. Itreminds me the service profit chain, which is a a really great researchpiece that links all of these things. It starts with internal service qualityand hiring interviewing hiring onboarding training. Equippingeverybody well produces that loyalty and satisfaction that they may in ternlight the customers up on and it be gets the things that we spend all ofour time, focusing on which is revenue, growth and and those types of long downthe line outcomes. But it starts exactly where you are right here withemployees who truly understand what it feels like to receive what the boss isasking to be delivered. Now I think it's easy for people to,especially with all the great stories you tell to say. Well, you know thishappiness. Surprise Delight. Wow moment thing is what we're really shooting for,but I feel like what is overlooked off in times when we talk about customerexperience and share. Some of these stories is that is the desired resultor the desired outcome. Can you talk about the role of that? It's not likewell give hem the result and then Surpria delike them like Tra about therelationship there, so that no one misses the site that this isn't justabout doing crazy, delightful over the top stuff for people, it's actuallygiving people exactly what they paid for. Absolutely. What and I appreciatethat distinction eeds in because let's say you go out to a really fancyrestaurant and you order your meal and the waiter comes over and he says MrColeman, it's my pleasure to present you with your meal, but it's the wrongmeal. I don't care how nice the lead in sennse was. I'm not happy, I'm notgetting what I ordered when I originally put together the eightphases of the customer journey. I'll be honest, there were only seven and agood buddy of mine, Michael Port Fellow Author Speaker, heard me speaking andhew's. Like joly. I think you're missing a face, and I sat with that. Ikid you not for almost a year was about nine months and I was in the processariving the book and I'm like what am I missing? What am I missing and Irealized I was missing- face six of the eight phases the accomplished face andwhat dawned on me is. It was so obvious to me- and I don't say that from aplace of ego that you had to deliver the product of the service, they wantedthat I had missed that many companies don't do that right, and so I went backand I looked at it and the accomplished phase is what happens when a prospectdecides to do business with you back when they're tust kick and tires in themarketing in sales part of the relationship ors, I call it the assesspart of the phase. They have a goal in mind. They have something they'rehoping to accomplish. If you don't navigate them through toaccomplishing that goal, they will never become a doptor, they will neverbe loyal, they will never become an advocate referring new business to you.So you have to get that done, and you have to remember that. That's what wewant to deliver. That's what we want to focus on. We need to keep eyes on theprize that we have these surprise and delight moments around it and how wedeliver it. But if we don't get them to the finish line, we haven't achievedthis. A Good Bunny, F, mind, Phill Jones who's, also a fantastic speakerand writer in the sales space which...

...recently I was in the audience. Whilehe was speaking- and I was telling this analogy about a wedding dress, so whensomebody's buying a wedding dress, if you ask people who sell wedding gresses,what is the person hoping to accomplish? What is the finish line? It's wearingthe wedding dress on the wedding day, but that would be incorrect. Really. What they're hoping toaccomplish is to get the photos back from the wedding day and believe thatthey looked beautiful in that dress. So if we're moving our way to the finishline, but our customer has a different idea of what the finish line is andit's ten yards past, where we are it's like trying to sprint in a hundred yardrace and stopping at the tape. That's a mistake. All the best world classrunners run through the tape. They said a finish line, ten yards behind whatthe person actually wants. So, if nothing else, I think looking at whatthe customers said they want and really deciding, if that's really what theywant, or if there's something further beyond that. That should be yourinternal target that you're trying to get them to that singular shift inthinking I've seen revolutionized businesses and how they operate andtreat their customers. I think running through the tape, is such an easy andpowerful visual peece. You know if you're running through the tape you'rehitting the end of the race as defined right and in this case hitting thedesire result at full speed right and so that the caution of not runningthrough the tape is like you're going to slow down and maybe not even getthere. You wrote a line toward the end of the book and it made me it jumpedoff the page to me and it made me think wel. It reminde me of how I think aboutsome of the work that I'm doing every day and what gets me really excited,and it keeps me coming back as excited as I was seven years ago, and it's thisremarkable customer experiences have the potential to create a happier world that this work. It's not just aboutproviding satisfied employees, although that is part of making a happier worldit's not just about making happier customers, although that's part of ahappier world. It's not just about hitting your financial targets, whichis also part of a happier world for you and whoever you report up to andwhoever that person reports out to. Why did you take it to such a high level?And what do you mean in that statement because it feels really big to me andaspirational and it just got me all lit up. Why I appreciate that, because thatwas the intention with which it was written, and I will tell you that someof the people that read the book in advance pushed back on it a little andwe're like Joey Youryou're, getting a little HuJI pooji. You've been reallytactical: You've been strategic, you've been giving US Kase Studies. How didyou questions and now, at the end, you're going to get all soft and fluffy?Why is that? Why else are we here? Why else do we get up in the morning?Why do we choose to leave the people? We love the most oure spouse orsignificant others, our children or friends, and go to an office or log onto work and do something all day every day, if not to improve the planet, ifnot to improve our place in the planet, our friends place in the planet orclients place in the planet or coworkers place in the planet. I reallybelieve that it has the opportunity to make for a happier planet and here'swine. It's not just a a soft statement. You hinted at it before we live in anera where, if we look at a technnology analysis, we are more connected than inany other time in human history. I've had the opportunity, in the last twoweeks, to literally fly to the other side of the world and meet people who Ihad never met. Other than through Linkdin I've had the opportunity to jetback and forth here there and everywhere to do zoom calls skipe callsconnect with all kinds of people who I've never met in never will meet. Andyet, if you look at what the psychologist and the psychiatristersaying and the social scientist, we...

...have never had a time in human historywhere humans felt more disconnected alone, vulnerable unheard, and so I think there is an opportunityby creating remarkable experiences to have our fellow humans feel even for amoment that they matter to have them experience something unexpected. Thatsays, even though we've never met, even though you just purchased somethingfrom me, it would normally be seen as a transactional interaction. I'm going todo my best to make his smile to make you laugh to make. You feel, like youmatter that I think, is a huge, big, audacious goal that is actually reallyeasily attained on a case by case person by person basis so good. I just want to let that sit aminute that, like it's exactly right, I mean why are we doing all the things thatwe're doing and it's it? One of our deepest human needs, of course, is toconnect with other people and and to your point of it's not personal, it'sbusiness, it's not business. It's personal, like this separation is sonice to to have someone out there, who's consulting with some of thebiggest companies on the planet that are really setting the tone for whatbusiness culture is like today and know that you're in those rooms, helpingdrive and provoke in this way- and I think there's a lot of kinship outthere to I mean our mission, as stated on, our website is to rehumanize yourbusiness by helping you rehumanize your communication, to put the Messengerback into the message, but are nonstated or not publicly state goalsto rehumanize the planet. We want people to work in a more personal andhuman way and to get those connections that you're talking about. I mean whenyou can't fly halfway around the world to meet those people. I've alwayscalled it. Be There in person when you can't be there in person, you know morerecently, it's make any email as warm personal and effective as an inpersonappointment. So there's a lot of kinship here. I could obviously go allday because I have fourteen more questions that I just lined out and Jut. I didn't expect that I would- and Ididn't relationships ar number one core valuehere, and so I always like to give folks who spend this kind of time withme and with our listeners a chance to thank or mention someone who's had apositive impact on his or her life or career and to prop up a company. That'sdoing some of these things that you think are important in deliveringcustomer Experience d, someone who's doing it a good way, so you haveanyhone you like to shout out. Oh Wow there. You know it's kind of likeasking somebody who has multiple kids to name their favorite. U, you knowit's a challenge, there's so many. I mean, as I mentioned,there's forty six that are in the book. There's I reor Ted undre sap like asyeah yeah. It's funny the dedication it's intereing o bring that up. The theacknowledgments at the end of the book were sixteen pages long, and when I didthat the publisher was like you need to cut this down a little and even myagent. I love my agent dearly e's like Joe you're, going to write more booksand I was like, but on the offchance that I don't if I get hit by a bus ifsomething goes ary, I need to thank all the people that brought me to thisplace because it wasn't just the people here in the last year or two years orfive years or almost twenty years, that I've been doing customer experience. Itwas all of those people, so there are so many folks to mention. Let me takethis in two different directions. If I mad, the recovering attorney in me,always likes to answer a question by changing the question and making therules fit my own way, people that somebody inspires me in a business thatinspires me there. The business has people that inspire me to, but will dotwo different approaches. So the person who inspires me I'm going to go rightnow, with my two sons, locklon and Challen. They are five and three. Whatinspires me about them is they are one hundred percent experiential, onehundred percent all day every day morning, noon and night you have to bepresent with them. You have to be...

...creating experience with them. You haveto be creating connection with them. They are a daily and regular reminderof what the actual standard and Hemi humanity is when we start, and then itgets trampled and tamped down over time, and we begin to accept less. I want tochange that. I want to get it back to what it was when we were kids in termsof a company there's a fairly new brand I'd, say: They've been in business forabout maybe eighteen months. Hopefully I'm getting that right called Pila casePela case they make an environmentally friendly one hundred percentcompostable cellphone case. Their story is absolutely incredibleabout why they do this and I think more and more, I'm Gonno go on a little ran.If I can, even if we sit around and wait for the governments of the worldto solve these environmental crisis, we all get to burn together. I'm sorry Iworked in politics. I grew up in politics. I love politicians. I knowthat sounds crazy, but I love the service ethic of government, but it ismoving so slow in a world that is moving so fast that it is far past thetime for businesses to take the lead on this. In my personal opinion, Pela caseis one of these companies. That said, look we're not going to sit aroundanymore. People are buying cell phone cases and every time tey get a new cellphone. Of course. It's a different model and a different design in tedifferent size, so they have to throw out the phone and the case we're goingto create a case instead of throwing it out. You plan it in the backyard it'scompostable, you can grow stuff in it and I love companies that are doingthat and their story has caught fire. They are growing at an incredible rate,and one of the reasons I love them is a company is, and hopefully he's. Okaywith me sharing this publicly, the CEO just reached out to me as a buddy ofmine and we've known each other for a while, as friends, we've never formallyworked together and he said. Can we get on the call, because I want to talkabout how to do customer experience at scale? What do we do when we areselling in retail stores around the world and online and offline, and weknow who some of our customers are, but we don't know who all of them are? Howdo we get them engaged not only as customers and inexperience but engagedin our mission of making a better planet? That's the kind of conversationthat has me excited. That's the kind of conversation that I think the mostforward. Thinking and successful businesses on the planet or starting tothink about, and that's why Pela case is somebody that I'm paying attentionto so good and you're. Exactly right, I could. I could monologue as well aboutthe role and really the responsibility and the opportunity that business hasto solve so many problems and in I don't know if you read theResponsible Company from Evan Schuinard and the CMO Patagonia, but it's youknow, problems on an industrial scale can be solved on an industrial scaleand government regulation is not solving problems o an industrial scale.We do need some of it anyway. Ohwe yeah, of course, like we need to counter it with somethingother than high paid high powed lobbyist, who write loopholes in sothat the biggest offenders can get out, and that's not just me going on anenvironmental rant for anybody. That's on the other side, I'm just asking youto look at your own personal consumption and ask yourself: is thatmore less than your parents, and is it more or less than your grandparents?All the statistic show it is exponentially more, Oh and there's morepeople. So at some point something breaks. I don't know about you, it'sgetting hotter in the summer it's getting colder in the winter. I don'tlike that, and that makes me nervous well and in addition to is it more thanyour paents? Is it more than you need rightlike totally totally want is athing, and we and there's some there's some upside disatisfying, some of yourwants and scratching some of these more...

...superficial itches, but the conflationof Wantson needs, I think, drives a lout of the lot of the trouble thatwe're in agreed. Okay. Now I do not need to drive up and spend it ISPEC.Whatever time you have for me. Let's do it. Let's do hat I'd love to okay, Heybefore we let you go. Thank you for that. By the way. How can peopleconnect with you what's the best way T to learn more about never lose acustomer again to connect with you to learn more f. If a few of these ideaswere really exciting, your inspiration for people? What's the next step, theycan take sure a couple ways number one: The book is called, never lose acustomer again it's available everywhere, you might buy a book. We'vegot a hard cover. We've got an Ebook, I always say on podcast. We also have anaudiobook which you've enjoyed listening to me. I actually narrate theaudiobook, so I will read you the book as you go to sleep or, as you work outso happy to have you check that out, that'd be amazing. I also have apodcast called the experience. This show it's a weekly show about thirtyminutes where we do little snippets of Customer Experience Delight. We tellthe positive stories we're all about celebrating the businesses, theorganizations, the nonprofits, the governmental entities that are doingremarkable things that need to be celebrated and we have got a lot ofdifferent segment types. We have some fun with that. The best way to connectwith me is on my website. It's Joey, Colemancom, Jo Ey, like a five year old,you probably know somewhere Coleman, Co, l e man like the camping equipment, butno relation joy, Colemancom. There you'll find more information about me.My work, blog post, videos, ETCA and would love to have more people join theconversation because my goal is to raise that bar that is, I described, ison the ground and the way it's going to get raised is by more people not onlyexpecting remarkable experiences when they do business with otherorganizations, but delivering remarkable customer experiences totheir customers, their friends and their family alike. So good, animportant mission and you're, obviously sincere about it and your enthusiasm iscontagious, and so thank you for those opportunities for folks to follow uphey if you're listening to this and you enjoyed the time you spent with JolieColeman today, it would be so helpful to me and to the podcast indto otherpeople who need to hear this conversation ones like it to go. Leavea review at Apple Podcast, a rid tunes. I appreciate you so much for listening.Thank you, joy for your time. I really really enjoyed it and continued success to you. Thanks you,you than appreciate being on the show. You are listening to the customerexperience podcast, no matter your role in delivering value and servingcustomers. You're intrusting some of your most important and valuablemessages to faceless digital communication. You can do betterrehumonize. The experience by getting face to face through simple personalvideos, learn more and get started. Free at Bombomcom. You've beenlistening to the customer experience podcast to ensure that you never missan episode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player or visitvombomcom. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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