The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

15. You Have 100 Days to Create or Lose Lifelong Customers w/ Joey Coleman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You've got a hundred days to make customers for life.

Do you know what tools to employ to guarantee they’ll stay?

Joey Coleman does. He is a speaker and writer who's deeply steeped in the customer experience. He's the founder and chief experience composer at Design Symphony [TK: there is no URL for “Design Symphony” - this link is to his consulting website joeycoleman.com], and the author of Never Lose a Customer Again, Turn Any Sale into Lifelong Loyalty in 100 Days.

Coleman visited our podcast recently and shared his secrets to converting customers for life.

Golf and customer experience and customer serviceare used interchangeably, and I personally avoid that because I see customer service asbeing a reactive behavior. You're listening to the customer experience podcasts, a podcastdedicated to helping today's growing businesses restore a personal human touch throughout the customer lifecycle. Get ready to hear how sales, marketing and customer success experts surprise anddelight and never lose sign of their customers humanity. Here's your host,Ethan Butte. Congratulations, you've successfully brought on a new customer. But guesswhat? They are on the clock. You've got a hundred days to makethem a customer for life. According to today's guest, who you are goingto love, great energy, great insights. He's a speaker and writer who's deeplysteeped in customer experience. He's the founder and chief experience composer a designsymphony, something he's been doing for more than a dozen years. He's theauthor of one of the best books that I've read in the past year.Never lose a customer again. Turn any sale into lifelong loyalty in one hundreddays. Joey Coleman welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thanks so much.He's, then, absolutely thrilled to be here. I am a huge fanof bombomb I'm a huge fan of the work you all are doing in themarket place and was tickled bank when you reached out and ask to find likecome on the show. It's a real honor, so thank you. Yeah, thank you for participating in and I didn't know how familiar you were withwhat we were up to and we're just chatting before we hit records. SoI think we'll get into the power of video because in never lose a customeragain. You really provide a number of different ways to employ it for thatmore personal and human touch. But will start here with where I always start, which is defined for me and for the listeners, customer experience. WhenI say customer experience, wors that mean to you? What is it,conjure? What are its characteristics? Yeah, so to me, customer experiences afeeling. It's the emotions that your customers undergo or navigate through or havethrust upon them by their interactions with you. I think often customer experience and customerservice are used interchangeably and I personally avoid that because I see customer serviceas being a reactive behavior, what you do when something goes wrong or whenthe customer raises their hand and says I need help or I need something,whereas customer experience is a proactive activity. It's what you do, before thecustomer even raises their hand, or maybe even before they've become a customer,to make them have a deeper connection with your brand or your product or oroffering, to make them have a more personal connection with who you are,what you're doing and the kind of build that into the actual touch points andinteractions that you create for them. So you've offered something that's completely holistic.You've identified something that's really important. A lot of people, when we talkabout how to implement customer experience, will punt it and leave it down inthe customer success customer support team. Have you? You do a ton ofspeaking, teaching, consulting, writing in all of your consultation. Like,what have you seen or how do you advise people to raise it up outof these silo thing because even a really good company where people communicate well acrossteams and stuff, there's still a silo to Oh, he's a Sales GuyOh he's a marketing guy. Oh she's a customer success person. How dowe raise this up so that it is integrated from start to finish across thesetouch points? Sure? Well, I really appreciate that because I grew upin Iowa in a little farming community and you drive past any farm and yousee lots of grain silos and silos are absolutely fantastic on a farm and they'reabsolutely horrific and an organization. I understand why they were created. I understandthe benefits of the organizational hierarchy and creating departments based on function, but intwo thousand and nineteen and beyond that just...

...doesn't work anymore because the customer wantsyou to have complete insight into their relationship with you. They don't want tobe punted down the line to the next division or the next apartment. SoI think it's important for your employees to be able to have a clear lensinto the full scope of the relationship with the customer as it relates to theexperience and how do we elevate that conversation out of customers six says. Ithink we have a couple of challenges historically that are starting to change number one. If you look at the bulk of CEOS and senior leadership teams, theycame up through the ranks of sales or marketing. They didn't come up throughthe ranks of account management. It's not a criticism on how they got there, it's the reality of the path that, depending on who studies you look at, represents forty, two seventy percent of senior executives. So the CEOis predisposed to acquisition over retention just by the very nature of their own personalcareer. On top of that we throw economics. Economic shares that more moneyis spent on marketing and sales and acquiring that is spent on retention. Sowhen many organizations, where the dollars go is where the attention goes, there'sa predisposition to focus on bringing them in the door instead of keeping them oncethey've come in the door. The third problem we run into, and thisgets to those silos issue, is in very few organizations is customer experience itsown silo. Usually it's reporting up to whom sales are marketing, who arepredisposed to talk about acquisition instead of retension. So we have hierarchical issues, wehave structural issues, we have budgetary issues, and that doesn't even beginto be the tip of the iceberg. When we consider the phrase that formany years was the mantra and businesses around the world this is business, notpersonal, and so this belief that we were supposed to isolate feeling and emotionfrom a business interaction or people saying, Joe, you don't understand, wesell be to be. Okay, this is business to business. Well,folks, at the end of the day there's a human at the other sideof that. This is ht H, this is human to human and theresearch actually shows that even in bbb setting, when a customer and to be tobe environment makes a purchase, they still feel the same buyers remorse thata customer who makes an individually personalized purchase feels. And in fact the stakesmay even be higher, because in your home life, if you purchase thewrong rice cooker, no one's getting fired. In Your Business World, if yousign up for the wrong crm software or by the wrong HR platform orby the wrong chairs for the office, you might end up losing your jobbased on your B tob purchase decision. So I think there's a lot ofreasons why customer experience ends up not being a bigger part of the conversation.But what we're starting to see with the most cutting edge and progressive firms iselevating that role, creating a chief experience officer who supports directly to the CEO, not to another person in the C suite, so that voice of thecustomer, no pun intended, is being heard more often. So good,I think. The well, I'm just going to give you a line fromthe book to pick up on that. Was Right there. This, youknow, you're talking about the connection which human connection, personal connection, personalized, customized. These are all words that are very well seen throughout the book. But you wrote to never lose a customer again, you must meet yourcustomers where they are in their emotional journey. Talk about because you know where youare. Here is one really important aspect of connecting is empathy, andI read empathy. They're like this, meeting people where they are emotionally.It, to me, is the medium and more fun way to say empathy. Why is empath so important? I think you've already talked about why.It's hard. Right we're there's a cultural shift that needs to happen to besincere and to practice real customer empathy as opposed to, you know, leavinga seminar and saying, like, I...

...heard about empathy and I feel different, like there's a gap there. And you talked about some of the historicalstructural foundations that prevent it. But you know, why is empathy so importantand how are people doing that? Well, what does that look like in reallife? Even I love that you alighted on the concept of empathy,because you're right, I don't refer to it by specific word necessarily in thebook and that was a conscious decision on my part that I don't think we'rethere yet. I think we're close. That's going to be a future bookbecause I think that empathy is going to become the great differentiator in business.And here's why. The computers, the AI, the robots, can figureout everything else very quickly and very easy the hardest thing, if you talkto AI researchers, for them to figure out is going to be empathy.And the problem is empathy, which, I would imagine you and I wouldagree, is one of the most useful skills as a human being to have, is a skill that, as in general, is not taught in anyeducation model. If you want to find it in a book, you reallyhave to look hard and what you usually get is something that is way overlytechnical about the science and psychology of emotion or very lip service. Oh Yeah, you need to be more empathetic. I think the benefit of empathy anda business setting is that it acknowledges the emotional journey the customers on. See, the most obvious place this shows up is right after the purchase. Now, I imagine all of your listeners are familiar, or the great majority arefamiliar, with the phrase buyers remorse. The research shows us that when wemake a purchase, even though we're excited about the purchase, dopamine floods ourbrain. We feel joy, happiness, euphoria. This is going to bethe product or the service. It's a answer to our dreams. Almost asquickly as we make that purchase, a clock starts ticking and is the dopaminerecedes. Those feelings are of joy euphorian excitement are replaced by feelings of fearand doubt and uncertainty, in common parlance, buyers remorse. The problem with thatfrom a business setting is, while we're all back at the head officehigh fiving and celebrating that we just landed the new client. The client issitting in their office alone, wondering if they made the right decision. Wordan emotional peak. They're in an emotional trough and if we don't acknowledge theDelta between those two points and take action to close the Delta between those twopoints, we're in for a pretty nightmarish ride going forward. Where one partyin the relationship is feeling joy, you for any excitement, the other oneis feeling feared out and uncertainty. And if you've ever gone to a horrormovie with somebody who doesn't like scary movies, that's kind of a reference point,maybe from our personal lives or we can see they don't want anything todo with it. They want to get out of it as quickly as possibleand if we don't address that we're in for problems. So you said we'reon the clock in this scenario and part of the subtitle there's the hundred days. Is it? Is there magic to the first hundred days? It's aboutthree months. It's a quarter, little bit more than a quarter to use. You know business. Sure outside of business, as anyone thinking quarters no, not that I'm aware. I think. I think football players may target.It's a completely different context. Right. So, yeah, talk about talkabout the clock and talk about the hundred days. Maybe in this specificbuyers or Morse Dyna make it, but be but even above that, likewhy, what does that window all about? Yeah, so the what fascinates meand that this is where the original genesis for the whole idea behind neverlose a customer again came from. I found myself reading a study one night, and yeah, that's how exciting my life was, on bank retention,Bank customer retention, and what the study pointed out was the fact that thirtytwo percent of people who open a new bank account will have closed that bankaccount before the one year anniversary. I don't know if you've opened a bankaccount recently, then it's not fun. It's not a joy as it takesa long time. You have to go in in person, you have toshow ID, have to give them money, you have to wait your old accountto all the checks. Are The payments clear? You have to setup direct deposit, you have to get...

...a new ATM card, maybe newchecks. It's not fun. And yet almost a third of those people leavebefore the one year anniversary. But what really got my attention is that overhalf of those people leave in the first hundred days. And I started lookingat how banks behaved, and they reward new clients sign up bonuses somewhere betweenday ninety and one hundred. Why? Because they've learned that if they keepyou today one hundred and one in the typical bank, they'll keep you asa customer for a minimum of five years. This sparked curiosity in me and itled me to say, if bankers, who is a general rule, usuallypay pretty close attention to the bottom line and the numbers, are willingto accept thirty two percent annual churn, annual defection, what about folks thatdon't pay attention to the bottom line? And what I found in looking atindustries around the world from every corner that you might imagine, is that somewherebetween twenty and eighty percent of new customers will either actually leave your business inthe first hundred days or will mentally check out and decide that when the termof their contract is over, they will not renew. I think this isthe biggest threat facing business today that hardly anyone is talking about. Why?Because it's not as sexy to talk about retention is it is to talk aboutacquisition and as a result, companies are bleeding out their hemorrhaging off the sideof their operations and nobody seems to be paying attention. Yeah, we callthat selling out of a hole. I mean obviously as a software company ona subscription basis, monthly or annual. You know, it's obviously a bigdeal that we pay attention to and we look at it is selling out ofa hole. It's like, why are we going to make acquisition build thecompany out of a hole? And we need it. Yeah, it's tough. Well, and what's interesting in the software come industry, if I may, the group of people that have figured this out the most are the VC'sthat specialize in software is a service, because if you look what's happening inSilicon Valley and in the VC world, they are giving enhanced valuations to companiesthat have smaller churn rate. It's the first time that across an entire industrythis is happening at scale and the valuations are anywhere from three to five xgreater for a company that has a lower churn rate than the exact same productwith a higher churn rate. So they've figured it out and, as theold line in DC's and politics goes, follow the money wherever the money isgoing. That's usually the trend that you want to be part of, whichis paying more attention to your churn and defection so important because it speaks toall the things that to me, if you have a very, very lowchurn rate, it's not just about the churn rate in the ability to stackthe revenue in the SASS model, even though it is the upstream implications ofthat, or that you're doing so many things well that you must be awell run company. You know who's providing a great customer experience. So,and that's just the outbound perception. What about the internal perception of employee experience? So what we find is that we enhance customer experience, we by defaultenhance employee experience. They're two sides of the same coin, and so asyour customer retention increases, your employee retention increases. And we look at twoof the biggest line item costs in most businesses. It's the amount of moneythey're spending on people and the amount of money they're spending on marketing and sales. So if I can help you improve the margins in both of those,I dramatically increase the overall profitability of your organization. And we don't even so. For the being counters, that makes them happy, but for the peoplewho have hearts, not to say that being counters don't, it makes themhappy because they feel better about coming to work. Morale goes through the roofand I will say that is the thing that I have noticed the most fromcompanies who have implemented the methodologies I talked about in the book and if implementeda first under day strategy, the number of personal messages I get from readersand people have been in the audience when I speak. That's a joey.The thing that shocked me was I'm keeping my employees. My employees are moreexcited to come to work, they're coming up with better ideas, they're goingthe extra mild, they're doing more and...

...it's like wow, the correlation andthe connection between these two is so strong, but most companies never get to thatconversation. Yeah, it's pride in ownership where you can flip that switchwith half or two thirds or three quarters of the team members. It's justa it's a positive upward spiral or a halo, a factor, whatever youwant to say to like we're getting more good than we ever thought out ofit. So good, so in the book, one of the things thatgot me excited, and thank you again for mentioning your awareness and appreciation ofwhat we're doing with our business, you talk a lot about video and thatgot me so excited because it's something I've been thinking about and talking about andpracticing and teaching for years myself. But you know you do it through yourwe don't. We won't get into the details of your eight part framework.I recommend that you go out in purchase to this is for the listeners,not you joey it. I can see you already have a couple of couplecopies here. I cannot recommend highly enough. Never lose a customer again. It'sfun to read, it's super practical and there's an eight part framework frombefore this person is even close to being a customer all the way through retentionand advocacy, and it's a really smart play. But what got me reallyexcited about weeding it just what let me up was all the applications that yousaw for video. Can you talk a little bit about you gave in thebook, at the end of every chapter, really provocative questions and really practical nextsteps around you basically make give video equal footing as in person, email, on the phone, etceter you break down the different channels that we canuse to connect and communicate with people and you give video equal weight, whichI haven't seen in a book like yours before. So I I was justexcited to ask you about video a little bit. What, what about videois so exciting for you and what are some of the great moments in awell delivered customer experience that that you've seen that really got you excited? Well, a couple of thoughts on that Ethan. Number One, I think video isuniquely positioned halfway between the digital world and the analog world, and whatI mean by that is it gives us the closest proximation of an in personmeeting without having to be in person. So it gives us all the benefitsof being able to do connection at a distance and at scale without needing tophysically go there, but because they can actually see us and they can watchour body language and see our enthusiasm and see the way we're moving, because, depending on who studies, you look at you know what, sixty toninety percent of what we read and why we trust someone to appreciate them iswhat we can see visually. It allows us to bridge that gap. Numbertwo, and part of the reason I love what you've done with bomb moombis it's a technology that is actually pretty easy to use and your software makesit incredibly easy to use in an era where it's only recently become easy touse. It used to be if you want to send a customer a video, you better have a fulltime videographer on staff to shoot the video, toedit the video, to add music and etc. Whereas now the research actuallyshows, at least in a sales context, he had held selfie video shot onan Iphone, with poor light being an adequate sound, converts better thana studio shot video. Why? Because it feels more authentic, it feelsmore real. Additionally, we're at a weird time in human history where rightnow, video sent via text message right so either facetime videos or some quickshot video that's texted over are generally reserved for communications with immediately immediate family members. Being on the road and sending a video back home for the kids towatch, connecting on facetime with Graham and GRANDPA on Sunday night, whatever itmay be. So we're at this interesting conflux or period in time where thesetype of personal videos are normally reserved for family and there's barely a company onthe planet that I can't go to their website and find some mention of thefact that when you become a customer of...

...ours, you become achncorp family.We consider you as family. That kind of messaging, the fact that wemight use a communication tool that's already predisposed or subpossos to be a tool forfamily members in a business context, I think takes the relationship to another levelvery quickly. Then, when it comes to examples of company using videos,oh my gosh, you're right. I mean there's forty six case studies inthe book. I tried that from small, medium and large companies from all aroundthe world. I tried to pick companies that were doing really creative things. Couple quick touches. Number One, there's a company called Zajek's that's anonline ECOMMERCE business that makes Jim wipes okay, I don't know if you've ever beenin the gym working out and you've seen the residue to do with thehuman who worked out before you on the bench. Well, Jim Wipes allowyou, in an environmentally friendly, antiseptic way, to clean off that bench. So there is an a nonvoluntary DNA transfer. Okay, they sell theirJim Wipes online. You go online. There are many businesses that sell onlinethat are dying to have a human connection with their customers right because they nevermeet them in person. What sajects does is that is brilliant, is theday that you buy, they send you a confirmation email. Now a lotof ECOMMERCE companies send confirmation emails Zagics in beds of video that has a pictureand or a gift of the employee holding a clipboard that says thank you ethanor thank you joey or thank you the name of the customer right. Soimmediately you see that is the thumbnail you want to click play right in thesame way that you're hold up a sign right now, you've got to youknow on a day exactly, so if somebody holds up that video, they'regoing to watch and what they do is that watching the video? It justthanks him from the order it's personally shot. It's less than a minute long.Here's the interesting thing. There's actually a mistake in the book, andevery author hates it when there's a mistake in the book right, but it'sthe nature of publishing. About two weeks after the book came out, theCEOS objects called me and he goes, Joey, we gave you the wrongdata. I'm like, Oh man, are you kidding me? What's from? Me Goes, we gave you the wrong data on how many of thepeople that get the confirmation video actually watch it. And I was like,Oh, and I'm my stomach just drops. He says, yeah, we didn'thave it properly connected on the back end. So is it turns outthe number we gave you was too small. It's seventy eight percent of our customerswatch the video completely on a confirmation video. None of your listeners thatwork in ECOMMERCE. No. The typical read rate on a confirmation email issomewhere between four and eight percent across all industries. If you've got a seventyeight percent watch to completion rate with somebody that you have no relationship other thanthey just gave you some money to buy your product that they've never received ornever tried before. You're doing something right. So that's one example of a companythat is incredibly using video in a way that I don't think many companiesare using video to create that kind of personal and personalized connection really early inthe first hundred days. I like that you drew out their personal versus personalize. It's a line I like to draw out a lot. Like to me, I use personalized for the very a variable data inserts or the really nicenetflix email like hey joe, you watch the first five seasons of parks andrack. Guess what season six is available? Might like it, and I do, and that's awesome. It's personalized, it's super relevant. I forward itto my wi or you might forard it to your wife or whatever,and and you know it's really helpful. But this personal element where you letsomeone know that it's just for him or her. Just walk that out forpeople, because I think one of the themes I want to explore in theseconversations with smart people like you is, you know, we need to beable to scale our businesses and in so personalized and customized, machine driven,even if there's a human touching it at some point, is great. Butwhen, when, in a scale business, can we afford to get truly personal, because I think a lot of people say, well, I don'thave time for that, I can't afford...

...that, of course, implied ineverything you share so far. Focus. I don't know that you can affordnot to do it right. Exactly. All right, right, but butcoach people. Coach people into that a little bit like when, when canyou rely on the machine and when you need a real human to put areal moment into the experience in the life cycle. Yeah, I mean atthis point even I think it's probably more art than science. It's difficult toknow exactly when you need to do it. But I'll tell you how I usuallysee it play out. Typically, when somebody starts a business, theyare hyper personal in their communications. Why? Because they have one or two customersthey can afford to be. They have all the time in the world. They've finally got someone to sign on for their product or their service andthey're holding that person very carefully in the palm of their hand, creating personalcommunications with them in every touch, right there, right there. But then, if we found our job right, our business grows and we start tohave some level of success, we hire more employees, which by default makesthe connections less personal, because you have more people serving the same client,people serving the client who they may never meet or may not even know isserving them behind the scenes, not to mention we have more clients. Sothen we have a tendency to shift from the personal to the personalized. Inthe ideal scenario, we create more generic things that are personalized or we usemachine learning or ai to be able to make messages that feel personalized, likethe Amazon and Netflix recommendations. But we all know is a computer doing that, not a human. In my experience, the best companies are the ones thatcome full circle that. Once that is established, they layer new Ising on top of it. That brings it back to the personal and nowthey call out the specific messages. It doesn't take that much to send apersonal message to a client once a quarter. It really doesn't, even if youjust said all the clients I'm responsible for. Today is the third Fridayof the second month of the quarter and this is my personal day where allI'm going to do is shoot videos and send custom messages or custom emails orcall my clients are go visit them in person and I'm going to really makeit about them, not me. You don't have to do this all thetime. The pushback I get from most folks is jo you can't do thisat scale, it's too hard. When you know what business is hard.That's what you've signed up for. If you don't want to sign up tobe in busit there's a lot of other jobs you can go do that aren'tas hard as running a business. Okay, and I think you need to.Most business owners need to do a better job of empathizing and teaching theiremployees about the importance of this, because here's something I've come across recently toI've observed this for a while, but it kind of got brought into thebig picture very recently. You can't ask your employees to create a remarkable experiencefor your customers if they have no idea what a remarkable experience is. Andthe bar for customer experience, at least in the United States, and Iwould pose it globally, is lying on the ground. Okay, there's thetypical person has very little context. Quick story in how this came up.I was working with a CEO. He wanted to bring me into work withthis whole team. He said, Joey, we want to deliver first class RitzCarlton White Glove Service. It said Great. We got everybody together.I said here's a question. Before we start the daylong workshop, I'd liketo ask some questions and raise your hand if this applies to you. Howmany of you've ever flown first class? The CEO proudly raised his hand,the head of sales raised his hand. No one else raised their hand.As a great how many of you've ever stated or Rich Carlton? The CEOraised his hand, the see or the head of sales put the hand downand no one else had their hand up. He said okay, last question.How many of you have ever had a meal where it was delivered bywaiters wearing white gloves? Even the CEO put his hand down. I turnedto the CEO and I said it's very difficult to ask our team to deliverfirst class rich Carlton White Glove Service if they don't know what that is.And I think the same thing applies to every business. If you want youremployees to deliver remarkable experiences. You need to be a remarkable employer. Youneed to deliver remarkable experiences to them and...

...once they have the taste, they'regoing to want to pay it forward, they're going to want to give itto other people and they're going to have a context for what that looks likeand they're above all, they're going to know how it feels to be onthe receiving end. And once I mean you said it before, he saidit before. I just put it together now. Like knowing how it actuallyfeels and being able to a recognize how fun and exciting it is to experienceit and then, on the other side, how fun and exciting it is towatch people experience it or get those email replies or to get those unsolicitedpieces of feedback from your customers as you're doing this. It's just lights themup. I love this, this theme of this relationship between employees and customersand having to model the behavior right and being able to experience it. Thatthe best way to deliver great customer experiences deliver great employee experience. It remindsme the service profit chain, which is a really great research piece that linksall of these things. It starts with internal service, quality and hiring,interviewing, hiring, on boarding, training, equipping everybody well produces that loyalty andsatisfaction that they may in turn light the customers up on, and ithe gets the things that we spend all of our time focusing on, whichis revenue growth and and those types of long down the line outcomes. Butit starts exactly where you are, right here, with employees who truly understandwhat it feels like to receive what the boss is asking to be delivered.Now I think it's easy for people to especially with all the great stories youtell, to say, well, you know, this happiness, surprised,delight, wow moment thing is what we're really shooting for. But I feellike what is overlooked often times when we talk about customer experience and share someof these stories, is that is the desired result or the desired outcome.Can you talk about the role of that? It's not like well, give themthe result and then surprise and to like them like. Try about therelationship there so that no one misses the site that this isn't just about doingcrazy, delightful over thetap stuff for people. It's actually giving people exactly what theypaid for absolutely well, and I appreciate that distinction, Eathan, becauselet's say you go out to a really fancy restaurant and you order your mealand the waiter comes over and he says, Mr Coleman, it's my pleasure topresent you with your meal, but it's the wrong meal. I don'tcare how nice the lead in sends was, I'm not happy. I'm not gettingwhat I ordered. When I originally put together the eight phases of thecustomer journey, I'll be honest, there were only seven and a good buddyof mine, Muchel port, fellow author speaker, heard me speaking and he'slike, Joey, I think you're missing a face. And I sat withthat, I kid you not, for almost a year. was about ninemonths, and I was in the process of writing the book and I'm like, what am my missing? What am I missing? And I realized Iwas missing phase six of the eight phases, the accomplished face. And what dawnedon me is it was so obvious to me, and I don't saythat from a place of Ego, that you had to deliver the product orthe service they wanted, that I admissed that many companies don't do that right, and so I went back and I looked at it and the accomplished phaseis what happens when a prospect decides to do business with you, back whenthey're just kick and tires in the marketing and sales part of the relationship or, as I call it, the assess part of the phase. They havea goal in mind, they have something they're hoping to accomplish. If youdon't navigate them through to accomplishing that goal, they will never become a doctor,they will never be loyal, they will never become an advocate referring newbusiness to you. So you have to get that done and you have toremember that that's what we want to deliver. That's what we want to focus on. We need to keep eyes on the prize that we have these surpriseand delight moments around it in how we deliver it. But if we don'tget them to the finish line, we haven't achieved this. Good Buddy ofmind, Phil Jones, who's also a fantastic speaker and writer in the salesspace, was recently. I was in...

...the audience. Why he was speakingand he was telling this analogy about a wedding dress. So when somebody's buyinga wedding dress, if you ask people who sell wedding dresses, what isthe person hoping to accomplish? What is the finish line? It's wearing thewedding dress on the wedding day, but that would be incorrect. Really whatthey're hoping to accomplish is to get the photos back from the wedding day andbelieve that they looked beautiful in that dress. So if we're move on our wayto the finish line, but our customer has a different idea of whatthe finish line is and it's ten yards past where we are, it's liketrying to sprint in a hundred yard race and stopping at the tape. That'sa mistake. All the best world class runners run through the tape. Theysaid, a finish line ten yards behind what the person actually wants. So, if nothing else, I think looking at what the customers said they wantand really deciding if that's really what they want or if there's something further beyondthat. That should be your internal target that you're trying to get them to. That singular shift in thinking I've seen revolutionized businesses and how they operate andtreat their customers. I think running through the tape is such an easy andpowerful visual piece. You know if you're running through the tape you're hitting theend of the race as defined right and in this case, hitting the desireto result at full speed, right, and so that the caution of notrunning through the tape is like you're going to slow down and maybe not evenget there. You wrote a line toward the end of the book and itmade me. It jumped off the page to me and it made me think. Well, it reminded me of how I think about some of the workthat I'm doing every day and what gets me really excited and he keeps mecoming back as excited as I was seven years ago, and it's this remarkablecustomer experiences have the potential to create a happier world. That this work.It's not just about providing satisfied employees, although that is part of making ahappier world. It's not just about making happier customers, although that's part ofa happier world. It's not just about hitting your financial targets, which isalso part of a happier world for you and whoever you report up to andwhoever that person reports out to. Why did you take it to such ahigh level and what do you mean in that statement? Because it feels reallybig to me and aspirational and it just got me all it up. Why? I appreciate that, because that was the intention with which it was written, and I will tell you that some of the people that read the bookin advance pushed back on it a little and we're like, Joey, you'regetting a little Hoogie Pooja. You've been really tactical, you've been strategic,you've been given US case studies how to do questions, and now at theend, you're going to get all soft and fluffy. Why is that?Why else are we here? Why else do we get up in the morning? Why do we choose to leave the people we love the most, ourspouse or significant others, are children, are friends, and go to anoffice or log on to work and do something all day, every day?If not to improve the planet, if not to improve our place in theplanet, our friends place in the planet, our clients place in the planet,are Co Workers Place in the planet? I really believe that it has theopportunity to make for a happier planet. And here's wine. It's not justa soft statement. You hinted at it before. We live in anera where, if we look at a technology analysis, we are more connectedthan in any other time in human history. I've had the opportunity in the lasttwo weeks to literally fly to the other side of the world and meetpeople who I had never met other than through Linkedin. I've had the opportunityto jet back and forth here, there and everywhere to do zoom calls,skype calls, connect with all kinds of people who I've never met and neverwill meet. And yet, if you look at what the psychologist and thepsychiatrist are saying in the social scientist,...

...we have never had a time inhuman history where humans felt more disconnected, alone, vulnerable, unheard. Andso I think there is an opportunity, by creating remarkable experiences, to haveour fellow humans feel, even for a moment that they matter, to havethem experience something unexpected that says, even though we've never met, even thoughyou just purchased something from me, it would normally be seen as a transactionalinteraction. I'm going to do my best to make a smile to make youlaugh, to make you feel like you matter. That, I think,is a huge, big audacious goal that is actually really easily attained on acase by case, person by person basis. So good. I just want tolet that at a minute. That like it's exactly right. I mean, why are we doing all the things that we're doing? And it's oneof our deepest human needs, of course, is to connect with other people.And and to your point of it's not personal, it's business. It'snot business, it's personal. Like this separation. It's so nice to havesomeone out there who's consulting with some of the biggest companies on the planet thatare really setting the tone for what business culture is like today, and knowthat you're in those rooms helping drive and provoke in this way. And Ithink there's a lot of kinship out there too. I mean our mission,as stated on our website, is to rehumanize your business by helping you rehumanizeyour communication, to put the Messenger back into the message. But are nonstatedor not publicly stated, goals to rehumanize the planet. We want people towork in a more personal and human way and to get those connections that you'retalking about. I mean when you can't fly halfway around the world to meetthose people. I've always called it be there in person. When you can'tbe there in person, you know more recently it's make any email as warm, personal and effective as an in person appointment. So there's a lot ofkinship here. A I could obviously go all day because I have fourteen morequestions that I just lined out in case. I didn't expect that I would,and I didn't. Relationships are our number one core value here, andso I always like to give folks who spend this kind of time with meand with our listeners a chance to think or mention someone who's had a positiveimpact on his or her life or career in to prop up a company that'sdoing some of these things that you think are important in delivering customer experience.Do someone who's doing it a good way. So give anyone you like to shoutout. Oh Wow, they're you know, it's kind of like askingsomebody who has multiple kids to name their favorite. All right, you knowit's a challenge. There's so many. I mean, as I mentioned,there's forty six that are in the book. There's read your dead hundred sounds likeas the yeah, it's funny. The dedication. It's engine bring thatup. The the acknowledgements at the end of the book were sixteen pages longand when I did that, the publisher was like you need to cut thisdown a little, and even my agent, I love my agent dearly, it'slike, Joe, you're going to write more books, and I waslike, but on the off chance that I don't, if I get hitby a bus, if something goes awry, I need to thank all the peoplethat brought me to this place, because it wasn't just the people herein the last year or two years or five years or almost twenty years thatI've been doing customer experience. It was all of those people. So there'sso many folks to mention. Let me take this in two different directions.If I made the recovering attorney, and me always likes to answer a questionby changing the question and making the rules fit my own way. People thatsomebody inspires me in a business and inspires me there the business has people thatinspire me too, but will do two different approaches. So the person whoinspires me, I'm going to go right now with my two sons Laughlin andchillon. They are five and three. What inspires me about them is theyare one hundred percent experiential, one hundred percent all day, every day,morning, noon and night. You have to be present with them, youhave to be creating experience with them,...

...you have to be created in connectionwith them. They are a daily and regular reminder of what the actual standardin human humanity is when we start, and then it gets trampled and tampeddown over time and we begin to accept less. I want to change that. I want to get it back to what it was when we were kids. In terms of a company, there's a fairly new brand, I'd saythey've been in business for about maybe eighteen months, hopefully I'm getting that right, called Pela case. PELA case they make an environmentally friendly, one hundredpercent compostable cell phone case. Their story is absolutely incredible about why they dothis and I think more and more. I'M gonna go on a little randif I can. Ethan, if we sit around and wait for the governmentsof the world to solve these environmental crisis, we all get to burn together.I'm sorry. I worked in politics, I grew up in politics, Ilove politicians. I know that sounds crazy, but I love the serviceethic of government, but it is moving so slow in a world that ismoving so fast that it is far past the time for businesses to take thelead on this. In my personal APP in it, Pela case is oneof these companies that said look, we're not going to sit around anymore.People are buying cell phone cases and every time they get a new cell phone, of course it's a different model and a different design into different size,so they have to throw out the phone and the case. We're going tocreate a case that, instead of throwing it out, you planet in thebackyard. It's compostable, you can grow stuff in it and I love companiesthat are doing that and their story has caught fire. They are growing atan incredible rate and one of the reasons I love them as a company is, and hopefully he's okay with me sharing this publicly, the CEO just reachedout to me as a buddy of mine and we've known each other for awhile as friends. We've never formally worked together, and he said, canwe get on the call, because I want to talk about how to docustomer experience at scale. What do we do when we are selling in retailstories around the world and online and offline, and we know who some of ourcustomers are but we don't know who all of them are. How dowe get them engaged, not only as customers and inexperience, but engaged inour mission of making a better planet? That's the kind of conversation that hasme excited. That's the kind of conversation that I think the most forward thinkingand successful businesses on the planet are starting to think about, and that's whyPLA case is somebody that I'm paying attention to. So good and you're exactlyright. I could. I could monolog as well about the role and reallythe responsibility and the opportunity to business has to solve so many problems and inI don't know if you read the responsible company from Avannechoinard and the CMO atPatagonia, but it's problems on an industrial scale can be solved on an industrialscale and government regulation is not solving problems on an industrial scale. We doneed some of it anyway. Oh we yeah, of course. So,like, I don't really need to go. We need to counter it with somethingother than high paid, high powered lobbyist who write loopholes in so thatthe biggest offenders can get out. And that's not just me going on anenvironmental rant for anybody that's on the other side. I'm just asking you tolook at your own personal consumption and ask yourself, is that more or lessthan your parents, and is it more or less than your grandparents? Allthe statistic show it is exponentially more. Oh, when there's more people.So at some point something breaks. I don't know about you, it's gettinghotter in the summer, it's getting colder in the winter. I don't likethat and that makes me nervous. Well, and in addition to is it morethan your parents, is it more than you need? Right, like, totally, totally want is a thing and wed and there's some there's someupside to satisfying some of your wants and...

...scratching some of these more superficial itches, but the conflation of wants and needs I think drives a lot of thelot of the trouble that we're in. Agreed. Okay, now, Imean I need to drive up and spend an ESPEC. Whatever time you havefor you, let's do it. Let's do what I'd love to. Okay, Hey, before we let you go, thank you for that. By theway, how can people will connect with you? What's the best wayto learn more about never lose a customer again, to connect with you,to learn more? If it's a few of these ideas were really citing orinspirational for people, what's the next step they can take? Sure a coupleways. Number One, the book is called never lose a customer again.It's available everywhere. You might buy a book. We've got a hardcover,we've got an Ebook, I always say on podcast. We also have anaudiobook, which you've enjoyed listening to me. I actually narrate the audio books,so I will read you the book as you go to sleep or asyou work out. So happy to have you check that out. That beamazing. I also have a podcast called the experience. This show, it'sa weekly show about thirty minutes, where we do little snippets of Customer ExperienceDelight. We tell the positive stories. We're all about celebrating the businesses,the organizations, the nonprofits, the governmental entities that are doing remarkable things thatneed to be celebrated, and we have got a lot of different segment types. We have some fun with that. The best way to connect with meis on my website. It's Joey Colemancom. Joey like a five year old.You probably know somewhere Coleman cool em an, like the camping equipment,but no relation Joey Colemancom. There you'll find a more information about me,my work, blog, post videos, etc. And would love to havemore people join the conversation because my goal is to raise that bar that isI described is on the ground and the way it's going to get raised isby more people not only expecting remarkable experiences when they do business with other ouranizations, but delivering remarkable customer experiences to their customers, their friends and their familyalike. So good, an important mission and your obviously sincere about it.In your enthusiasm is contagious, and so thank you for those opportunities for folksto follow up. Hey, if you're listening to this and you enjoyed thetime you spent with Joey Coleman today, it would be so helpful to meand to the podcast into other people who need to hear this conversation ones likeit. To go leave a review at Apple podcasts or itunes. I appreciateyou so much for listening. Thank you, Joey, for your time. Ireally, really enjoyed it, and continued success to you. Thanks,Youthan. Appreciate being on the show. You're listening to the customer experience podcast. No matter your role in delivering value and serving customers, you're entrusting someof your most important and valuable messages to faceless digital communication. You can dobetter. rehumanize the experience by getting face to face through simple, personal videos. Learn more and get started free at bomb bombcom. You've been listening tothe customer experience podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribeto the show in your favorite podcast player or visit bombombcom. Thank you somuch for listening. Until next time.

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