The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

18. Create Delight to Keep Customers for Life w/ Jordan Olivero


What’s a surefire strategy to solidify your reputation for offering a superior customer experience?

We’ll give you a hint. It involves tacos.

Jordan Olivero is the director of customer success at Swimlane. He visited our podcast recently to discuss the power of moments, doing things that don't scale but doing them anyway, giftology, and being your own PR firm.

Olivero read The Power of Moments a year ago and it transformed the way he looked at the customer journey. They broke down the things that are common to any memorable lasting impression.

Those are the places where you have an opportunity to make a moment that really lasts. In customer experience,the moments that are particularly powerful or memorable often have one of these three traits:

  • They are pits in the journey.
  • They are peaks in the journey.
  • They’re at a transition in the beginning and the end.

In customer success be trying to use apersonal touch: versa, cosmy touch when the moments really matter just like inmarketing one when the marktins become very sopicificated. As you know, whatso has or our vs Poer, we know Wen o Machin, send us a message: You're listening to the customerexperience podcast a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businesses,restore a personal human touch throughout the customer line cycle, getready to hear how sales marketing and customer success experts surprise anddelight and never lose sign of their customers. Humanity here is your hostEfen beaute. Welcome back to the customer experiencepodcast we're talking about the power of moments, doing things that don'tscale. You know they don't scale, but you do them anyway, about gift ologyabout being your own pr from inside your company. For you and your team,I've got a gentleman here, who's the director of customer success atswimling. He was a customer success and business consultant and advisor foryears. He spent a dozen years at IBM and depart as the senior manager ofcustomer success. Jordan, alivaro welcome to the customer experiencepodcast. Thank you. E than it's thrill to bee with you today, thanks for atingme yeah, we some of our team members, met up with you up in Denver at acustomer success, Meetupso you're right up the road from us, that's rigntoborrow it. You ceam highly recommended, I'mexcited for this conversation, and I want to start where we always start,which is defining customer experience. I argue that it's the single mostimportant thing, oure companies produce and deliver, but I think it has avariety of definitions. How do you look at customer experience? Well, I thinkhe customer experience is a combination of different impressions that we giveto a hostoer by delivering on our brand promise. I think it's a function ofcustomers, success, other function being in customer outcomes, h desired,alcomes that the intended the customer pended in purchasing the othe soft wor,the prodeficers, and so I yeah customer experienceis crucial and we when, whendone very well compliment to doucomes an indrives, the retension expansion,an comperies Ar goking forward. To that, that's awesome. I love that you touchedon brand. That's another way that that we've talked about it here. On the show,before brand, being this kind of holistic, all encompassing thing thateveryone is ultimately responsible, for you say that customer Experiencis, afunction of cs where does brand sit for you is that a marketing function,brandeas is a marketing function. If Our promise from Howe positioners orelatives O oure competitors, is one of Ot revens in the SE and Axcllens inservice and that high personal touch, then we need to deliver on that kind ofpromise. WE WON'T SCHEDULE AND AUTOMATE EVERY SINGLE PAS point will lighelyhave touchpoints that are not stall, that are highly personal, so we Gan wehumanize hat that a awesome. I look forward to following upon doing things that don't scale, because it's one ofthoe things H. Ithink a lot of people see it on paper they're like cannot do it. We can't dothat that once skils, I'm looking forwar to that, but before we go gettoo much deeper just for context, so that people can understand where comingfrom. As you share your experience, ind your expertise tell us a little bitabout Swimlang. What is that all about? How is your team? How are you doingthere? What's Twinling all about yes, Olins, all about the analysts who areoverwhelmed with the number of alerts ther getting the kind of word an Alysedoes is often very administrative, and quite mondaying, so swinling does isremoves that Mondan task from Besoberin some of their day today, and it gives abad times they're highly productive, so that they can't work on or oreinteresting, complex, complex kinds, aof things SOS Wen lay. I'm sorry is aplatform of does automation and Orgestration,ELEGAS and Y that Pressuro the AAs to thet it's good. It sounds like anothertheme that we've had on the show before,...

...which is this: finding that that new,healthy balance between humans and machines, letting the machines do thething that machines are good at and letting humans do the do. The complexand interesting analytical work so love that what types of analysts are wetalking about like who are you know if you were to describe two or three ofyour ideal customers? Who are these people? Ideal customers tend to besecurity, operation CETTERS, which are responsible for protecting t e, thebrand that they were for in some cases, there's MSS ps out there who are manageTe, curiou, servive priors, who wil protect oother brand, but they'll do itas a service Thos, he kind of organization, the guys at Grove ordepartments that need to be highly productive because there's a talentshortage out there today, there's just not enough people that are capable tohandle the kind of volume from all these all these attacks by the offense,so we're helping in desvents protect these brands of these entitiseorganizations, government agencies and we're just making them overdeath. Soit's when the O love it, and I love the name. It reminds T I was a high schoolswimmer, so it's like Han this penl Sim lane markers and watching the blackline on the bottom of the pools. You try to keep moving forward so good, sowe had a really great conversation before we hit record, and so I want to.I want to get into some of the things that we only drove by really quicklyaround this. This idea of customer experience and being everyone'sresponsibility, but see us having a special role in that one of the booksthat really inspired you that we just chatted about briefly, was fromChippandan Heath, we're kind of in that vein of business. Psychology, researchbased popular and approachable, highly functional, I think, of like Dan Pinkin that same zone, talk a little bit about the power of moments and how thatcomes into play for you, I ethe power of moments a year ago andit really transponedh way. I looked at the customer jourty and I like theresearch because they broke down the kinds of things that are all are commonacross any memorable lastipressions that we have othe things that you mayhave done in college. You still talk about things that happen in yourchildhood, likely didn't haven by ASET. They haven by design so help me. Do theSames wor of bank o your customer experience and Hese these moments thatare powerful or nummerable or Alasting for customers los an have three commontrace e ther ther types of moments that are really important: There's the pessin tha and that experienting the journey there's the peaks ind thejourney and the there's the transition the beginning. An that end. Those arethe places where you have an opportunity to make a moment that thatreally last Becaseto, so we look as as Swimlane as a team looked across thecustommerjurity, we started with right out of the decision points to buyswiming up until they make the Iden to renew or pan or their for workingbusiness with US owit at the crossocame, where all the touchbons and where wewho always been touch at this moment in time, and how can we avoid those pits?First make things a little more litl, wor pleasans producing thefrictionproduce customer of the team. I just reduce that effort that they have tospend in dealing with us. How can be easy to deal with and I coun go on andon about. You know these transitions might Getyo more examples. If, likethose yeah that'd be great, you know it sounds like you've matt the entirecustomer journey, so a how did that project go, how many people wereinvolved? Where did you start and then b? How do you identify kind of thepeaks in the pits and are you designing? Are you creating specific moments, ouldkind of tie everything you started with there just tied together a little bittighter and maybe start with like who took this on mapping the customerjourney because it's obviously a big deal. I think a lot of people thinkthey have sight into it, but it sounds like you really mapped it at some levelof detail. We didn't have it a detail. I go ye ost, okay, my first onet Iasked if they had one the didn't. Yes,...

...we got in Ta White Board. I got wetboard in a room. Bosine themes inside started, wite boarning Wat. We thoughtthat journing look like and that just I just brought a lot of a lot ofconversations with e table. We got clarity around WHO's going to own mhuch,PA part of the process. We dentifies TAT. Sorry, is this a cross, functionalteam, or is this the CS Teama? Well the CSTEAM as made up of professionalsverism support as CS this oat o call a CX, a parent organization on the CEO.Now that groove is itwell in chags the last SEK AD seven months of Benyear,we've brought in marketing n sales to the conversation and first look at thekickoff, the kick off being a beginning and an opportunity that said that thatthe Toaland that pays wit poster- and we talked about Ka Wha qe- do todelight that costume refors. The end of that call that they feel like they'rein good hands, they're not going to be left out of the drive. So we did is askthe CEO to recor video. He use the cellphone in some instances when he'son the road, traveling or someof the disease in the office, and he justmaded with thirty. Second, forty five second video personalizing Itto, thethe customer using their names, maybe referencing their view. Specific partsof the of the deal that were important and then N, then press ot, said it tome. We included it inside of that kickoff all Wa with the customer andthe cose of that call. It was oftin you find all the customers Nitin your head,smiling and getting the good sense. This comedy swimmling thats humanizedthis part of the process and and iitros that's excellent. I mean that is apowerful moment for people. So CEO records truly personal video to makesure that every kickoff call ends with this feeling that this company caresabout me. That's right. It's great, so talk again about peaks and pits, so itseems like maybe you felt like there wasn't enough positive momentum comingout of that kickoff call. So you found a way to address it with acrossfunctional team, talk about some other peaks and pits that youidentified, and maybe one or two examples of how you resolve those. WHATCOMES TO MIND IS OT pit in the inimimenation process, so we am ont giving specific dethelsaround how long it takes toget ot with Swimlin. It was obvious to me that if we couldreduce the time to first value, we would, in the costomers mind, increasetha, preceive the value and realize value and during their their contractwith us, so we looke at Measurian verse time, the first value and then sa okay.What can we do to decrease this this time to get there? wheree Harts Fer,contributing anxiety where o people have to serve the final answer to thequestion when they ask me: Why is it taken so long to get of and running?That's a ready flak. We need to do something about that and, as a teamwant to look out ways to reduce that time to forspon and what is or yourcustomers what is first value and do you have any tips on for people who are listening, that thatmight not be highly conscious of of First Valu, so for us at Bombam, ourfirst value is getting that first video sent and getting that first reply backright. We want that Aha moment where someone says it's the same thing you'recreating on your kickoff calls. Is this? Oh, my Gosh! This is a different way tocommunicate, and so it's important, I think it's super important, not justfor CS, but for everybody recognize what first value is just theconversation alone is healthy. How did you all arrive at yours yeah we hadediscussing around that? Is it Benot haw moment that matters or is it full value?Oris it half Li? It's not that important, where you land for as longas you're, starting to measure these leading and lagging indicators andasking a costomer logs a good idea to what your goal and when do you thinkwe're going to get there ask them. You know the Wind Wuester, how how we knowwe've arrived. So what we like to look at is: Are we truly deliberati value?That means TA? Swimline is oen running in production, with data, angestedintegrations done, workwis created and is contributing true, true, automation,IHE and reducing some of that work.

That was once antended. That's good,implied right there, R, actually HEU said it. Maybe its explicit it's notimplied. Is that having this clear agreement with the customer is superimportant like what is value to you and let's make sure that we're both on thesame page? So I don't assume one thing and you sume another. I think you're ingreat shape and you're extremely disappointed. We have you know a d. Wego on without being clear about that. That's where we start, and I culk oncall I jup on. Why did you buy swomlie and I may have heard it im the sellar?In fact I do this transition wort. The sales am to understand the REASONIS whythey lost Im Languag. I want to hear not just pror no, but I want them tosay front of the their broner team to so. The entire team of this enterpriseaccount understands what direction we're hading toward ATA thing fiture.Well, if from that vanish, wint really made me, we design everything elsearound echeeting that and we go back to I later we say you mentioned bat sixmonths ago. We want tod, keep this. We have fantasic what's next right andthat's the conversation is not too hard is really sipe. One antactling justclarify the objectives and then being clear about that plan to get there, butnot overwhelming thet, and then they deliveri of that's great talk about thehandoff there. You just kind of talked about a little bit of a sales to see shandoff. The sales person has already told me what, in their own language andin their own perception what the customer eeds in wants and so you'remanaging that handoff. What are some other handoffs that Yo mapped out andwhich ones were particularly right for improvement? This is a big one. Thesales to customer successs often fill with tention, and I understand why, ifI have I'm not going to speake righ urblly just speak pro experiencethereare times where I don't give the benefit of the doubt that the person'sgoing to treat this costom the way that I thinkthey should be to are they going to deliver and they probably sales thinksthe same thing about USTOM success. Will they deliver on this? I put mybrand astate my personal Radestay, for this customer brought him in Comon,guys yo got a deliver lik. That question. Is there and and attention isgot because we all are, after the same struggle that I had initially was. Iwanted to be the hero, and so I didn't pay enough attention to this and why Ishit into and Bundance minset, and then with that apon is mindset I parteedwith sales to enable them to be successful. An e turn I was to startedby asking he question: What is it that you need to see us do to feel reallyconfident that that you can Hande over the customer to us now and then justdeliverin on that, and it took time tos time every time to time an IBM to alittle bi time here, but we're in a great place. I love it's such a healthyway to approach relationships, not just externally with customers butinternally, as well with your teammates, because you're really talking about amindset shift there right, I mean an abundance. Fine set, it's just a changein the way you look at the is. Everything else is happening. The same.You just view it differently. Ind, the outcomes are dramatically differentright. We design the process so that the custumeris the hero, I were tryingto tell a story and weretheir guide and we want them to be the hero. Hit'sNowere, just shipping, the Vatans we guide to God along their jourey andwhic, is really in Transpir trups. So we just try to work with each otherthat there's this this handoff, where the custor doesn't feel like therepeating the same thing, the different people ois, one Wen, you want to beable to communicate, Emot, the community and understanding and notwayter them. It's great talk to me now about some ofthe things that don't scale. I don't imagine you're, probably turning onfive hundred new accounts a day, and so the CEO needs to make five hundredvideos a day. That's one that can probably scale to a point talk aboutsome other things that you've chosen to..., even though on paper it doesn'treally add up. It looks like I don't know if we could scale this in customer success. Ye Try to use apersonal touch: versa, cosboby touch fhen the moments really matter justlike in marketing wonder when the markets become very sophifficated. Asyou know, Wut So has r our vs weird. We know in the machine send us a messagean we know when a real human temas a messege. So we try to scale thoseannouncements, maybe around a new release being available or aknown issueor a fixes now outvailable. But when I'm speaking to Repeto as theyn older,these are Enterprie countsl over hundred kge. So they ed know that thisis a highly relevant message and so I'm speaking directly in a realway context,seingt one O one e in cases for them and oftentimes a train on that video.It may not be a recorded video, but these Zolians- you don't have a callwith me and see us without my videa lot and then thatapproach to cos withcustomers as now spread. Other parts of our organization, where more of mycollege are turnd on their vidts and having a little more nonivablecommunication having a space to recognize, increases, trust inpreciprosity, and those are some things that we've been thinking about when wedo these. These wonder one things: Oh O woring about plasees these gifts, O thegifts that we send out ar unnecessarily STELA. We pay high attention to thesepeaks wo. They Sein that first value or have gooneline a second newse case. Wetry Ino sand a day, meanful gift, and we don't send in theround Christmastime but times of the year, where its as expected right when you're about torenew now that we try to do it at these surpriding moments, because those tensis, I really important, you're speaking my language by the way and talkingabout trust and reciprocity through face to face communication reallyconnecting with people eito eye rather than just simply voice a voice. It's ait really goes a long way something else you introduced before. I reallywant to talk to you about this customer advisory board that you just ran. Wewould have done this a few weeks ago, but Y you're preparing for this reallyawesome event that I'm excited to hear about, but talk to me a little bitabout building the culture of your team and advocating for CS internally insidethe organization, especially for the customer success leaders who arelistening absolutely so the customer advizer were Ol talk to first heten. Iwill talk to talk about a customer kind of culture of Ostr success. So adviyboard is something that a lot of companies tries to initiate oproductmanagement perspective to get an ahead of where the customers are going.theyovide, these Sener Level Folcus into group of maybe ten to twelve peoplelike we did, and we asked seme questions. Where are you making thatYour Business Wer in this Securitiy orgistration automatison respons,theyll man Wy you Bya product to solve this ollusion? Are you getting thereturn on the Investment Yo may, where some things or problems, you think weneed to address and fine solutions to and the next year or two we didn't askthemto to rank features and solutions be ask them to rain probems. Let us take on the heavyliity of finingsolutions and cratersn as the experts, but we want our our biggest rostomersar ost influencing custome of their huge advocates for us to all guideus,so that was a full day and a half efvent at I oched it here in Denverlate February, when great we had the exeutive team there in about twelve talother customers Cooln, and where did they come from all over the world oracross the country? We invited a view from Australia, an Europe but t theycould have make it so most peop egronin coutry, that's awesome, and so how didyou? How did you pick them again? These were these were some of your longestterm clients or your highest value, clients ore like what was it you knowfor someone thinks okay, I want to do...

...something like this. I want to getgreat customer intimacy. I want to build even deeper relationships withthem. I want to learn from them directly and by the way,congratulations on going to problems over the product itself. Again, justgoing back to Henry Fords, who you know I would have given him faster horses orwhatever you know that, but kind of classic line is like when you talkabout the problems, it's up to up to the team in the company to figure outthe creative solutions that make sense for them, but for someone thinkingabout putting something like this together, how like what Wul just theweal, basic nuts and bolts of from okay? Let's do this to okay, it's happening.Okay, Il First, I say Goto Mike Gosp, Michael Seppy. He is the authority anda great trusted adviseor on this or a lot of this material in line I in Polthem a few times he's a great guy. So first off we get private crytos dotheir a second start of many, an at least sportify ones, out slepter venueand then start to think about your Ini light. have an Invi come from the CEO,those invice quid bes, zolong spanning customers or brand new cusers. Whatyou're looking for is people who are eally Voug EDTO. Your vision werereally excited by your products and Hav a tegic perspective. This is not usergrout, so be careful about the the level and seniority of the people theyelite. This kind of convetion a that yeah. Absolutely that's goodsand! It'ssowas this at a hotel which is it Ayour office like o downtown US station. TheCRAWVORD Rozel was the the Veny of Fer goasons and then across the street,Ostovelt US ther, stat room of fantastic venue and the flive bottom ygratitude and advange of that Toyouhat, nice and glad you got such greatfeedback on the event to as it concluded. So double back talk to meabout building the culture of of CS inside the organization at large forsure I star, with asking teams to observe, share their good badexperiences with France. What was outstanding and what wasn't? Why talkabout with yhour colleagues, this Omthat, I had one conversations anpassing but hot a month into starting to swinglan. We had O big all hands andCE. Give me a couple hours with everybody in the whole company here intown to just Ju, spend time on costmers andsess. So it took about forty fivediys to go through a dishdeck but really spend the next hour on the Alfongame. Tey Call it turn. Busters and Ju. Designo scrash had a number ofdifferent risks to pretension presented to the tendifferent teams. There were five fie w head ahead and that each of Nemberpared a response that how they uld handle that risk, and then both teamspresented what they would do and the rest of the company voted, which teamof the better better response. It just started to get everyone's thinkingabout. Okay retention matters, I spasion matters. It's five o seventimes more dos effective to sell to your customers than define acquire anew one, and so it just taked the culture to think about this. Now I didhave a collegue and told me, Jordan. This is just what I can mont ago. Sowhen you, when you spoke to the whole company I was suspicious, I wasn'tquite sure we were going to be able to achieve what Hal we actually come toachieve and and give a lot of pros, and it was a private PRI praise, but werethere in save stating sometime a the sut that culture celebrating successesin the journey, highlighting comments and customers in the company life slashyhounel is a big one and then Castin, I e Melli vision. I think I think I I think I did that early on andnowwe're starting to make a pastance to those as a great little checklist ofactionable stuff. So if you're listening hit that thirty second backButton D write a couple of those down, because those are just really simple:straightforward, practical things, as you say them, I say: Well, Gosh, that'sso obvious at the same time, there's so...

...many of these things that were just notdoing that are easy, low hanging thing. So congratulations on getting broadercompany buying into customer success. The net result is a better customerexperience, especially with the journey mapping that you've done. One of our core values here, abombamband on the customer experience podcast his relationship. So I alwayslike to give you a chance to think or mentione someone who's had a positiveimpact on your life or career and to to talk about a company that you think isdoing. Customer Experience Really Really Well Tat. Phil Gruer comes to mind, he's a local,her and bolder am, and I met ten years ago, and since we started our PROESSIOArelationship when I was working, Ivm is a great adviser, Ga advice of my career.Then I shit didn Voth it later when he invited me to join his team and workfor him, and that was such a g lit because he not only many oversol. My abilities etput me into e position where I use my strents. I was stressed jowers and then,when his boss asked me to work for him, he didn't hold on he. Let me go and anddid even the thing that was not on his self pinturs. So I always love a greatrelationship. Go Sein together, occasionall and I say oe rivers,someone. I want to just called out and think that's great we're all lucky. Ifwe have one person in our career like that, and hopefully we all have a fewof them. Is there a company that you've had a great experience with recently orgreat higreat experiences over time, a company that kind of stands out to youas someone who really puts the customer first, I'm trying to think of one has standsabove a rest. I can think of a few examples that thin will leave into ourconversation. One is is tobole about ten years ago, five, ten years ago,they used to without notice, freely give Freegryos to costomers that theyjust Lik Git it to, and I thought that was a really unique way to create thelight. Fhrough surprise it wasn't expected. It wasn't some kind of punchcard where you get by Tan. You get one breet. It was just this. Thisdelightful encounter that you Hav wit their rat. That's what comes to mindhe's then, I probably think of others. I becan it's tough to beat a freeburrito. That's right! That's a good one! So do you think that was likerecognizable faces, or do you think it was just kind of random, like I'mfeeling this lady I'll give her a Burito? I like this guy, it's possiblerecognizeis basis. I think that's. What's one of the things O, what theydid they created advocates as a result, they would even as par with me, forexample, by invited need to be unther farmty. This is going back, agood Goshdoes almost ten years now and that farmsing was a bunch of people theywanted to create as the evangulets and they educated us on their whole foodwith the tirity brand and the process and how they think and why hey thinkthat way, the's a Solin Group of people, but we we LAUFENSIC, we necame a tegalsfor their brand with our networks, and I thought that was a really interestingway. Tho Wet oprose. The US experience. That's really interesting, were youjust a customer at the time, or did you have some professional relationship orlike how did that get going? How many of there were you? This is fascinatingto me. I didn't know about the farm team, though it's true it's twothousand and ten Thisi, two thousand and eleven as when I, when it startedyeah and ironically, an Gointo this a little bit and cut us out if you want,but it was. I was at a Chicago location, reman, see about in the line as o Bolraand in that moment, because I was so detreted by the farm team and what wasgoing on. I divighted him to speak, that college school band of En rewasgoing to school and and he accepted the ivitation and a month later he came,and I introduced him o kind of executives and he talks about it andmore needs it. So those kinds of...

...interaction with brand just just reallydevelop this oyalty genuine interest. That's excellent, Hey Jordan! This hasbeen really fun. I think there are a number of superpractical takeaways, I'mlooking forward to going back through my notes for people that want to stayconnected with you or they want to connect with swimlane where're, someplaces that you might send Hem anxesty, so Tulin Swimmingcom, pretty pretspratforward. For me, love the conneck of anyone is listening. Jordan Olivarocomgreat place we go or on twitter tordn Ollver one this, but it awesome. Thank you so much for yourtime today really look forward to to connecting again and connecting inperson up in Denver some time afforrd to it. To thank you on the Brad you're. Listening to the customerexperience podcast, no matter your role in delivering value and servingcustomers. You're intrusting, some of your most important and valuablemessages to faceless digital communication. You can do betterrehumonize. The experience by getting face to face through simple personalvideos, learn more and get started. Free at Bombomcom. You've beenlistening to the customer experience podcast to ensure that you never missan episode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player or visitvombomcom. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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