The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

20. Why Obsession Is the Missing Ingredient in Your Customer Experience w/ Matt Knee

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

“Obsession is the complete micromanagement of the customer experience.”

According to Matt Knee, Founder and President of MyCompanyWorks and author of the book Startups Made Simple, obsession is a superpower.

Steve Jobs, Herb Kelleher, and Jeff Bezos each have/had it. There aren’t a lot of great companies whose founder wasn’t obsessed with seeing their vision of the perfect customer experience come to life.

Listen in to hear Matt share why obsession is so important and to hear about another superpower he thinks is even more important.

If you have something to get done, it will get done. You will impose your will on reality. You're listening to the customer experience podcast, a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businesses restore a personal human touch throughout the customer life cycle. Get ready to hear how sales, marketing and customers success experts surprise and delight and never lose sign of their customers humanity. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. All right, if you are looking for better ways to start, grow or systemize your business, including the customer experience, you are in the right place. Our guest today makes starting and running a business simple, fast and inexpensive for entrepreneurs and advisers. His company landed on the ink five thousand. They have helped more than Fiftyzero entrepreneurs start and manage their businesses over the past seventeen years. And, of course, as someone who knows startups and entrepreneurship so deeply and so well, he's also the author of startups made simple, mattne, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thanks you even glad to be with you. Awesome. So we're going to start where I always start, and that is the definition of customer experience. When I say customer experience, what does that mean to you? What do you think about? Well, when I hear is it's a very emotional thing to me. You know, it started a long time ago when I just had these really fans plastic experiences with with other companies and I started realizing that chess is an emotional thing that I'm having here. I'm actually connecting with these Tu I feel like this company knows me or they care about me. Maybe they don't. They don't even do that in reality. It could be a scaled kind of automated thing. But even if it's just a feeling that that I get when I interact with certain companies, and you can see it it sends to brands like Apple, people are fanatics about it. You make an emotional connection with someone and they will wait in line for days to get your products and they...

...will love you and seeing your praises forever. So for me it's always been kind of just an emotional connection. I love it. I've asked that question to more than two dozen awesome people and I've not heard it express so closely tied to the emotion in the feeling before. For you personally, what was an Aha moment? You know, you just mentioned apple there before we started recording. You talked about Southwest Airlines. What was a moment where you knew that southwest, for example, made you feel different? It started very long ago when I first started taking southwest airlines. Then you just got so entertained by their stewartists or Stewart attendants or whatever, and they were actually hilariously funny and that was such a different experience from playing don't talking back in early two thousand one, even before their early two thousand what flag, I was just awful and it was just so sterile and southwest. Really it really made a difference in that industry. It's done is as recent as of course, you mention an apple. You know I'm a fanatic for their products. I see them, I almost have to have them. It's like they know me when they come out. So just the very those are kind of very standard answers, but I have noticed in my own company if things don't feel right on how we're building stuff, whether it's a very it can be very tactical stuff like emails. How do they look? How does the website look as a field? To The colors match to the it does it emotionally come together as one whole? I guess is is where my concept comes from and it's what I try to assess on as a founder. I like that. I like that you said the word obsession and what you're talking about there none of us consciously says to ourselves, unless you're a designer. Man, this website really comes together and nicely and makes me feel like I'm going to, you know, a smart, clean, safe, productive place. But it's that feeling that we get. So the cool thing about what you did in your book, startups made simple, is that you broke it down into superpowers, is...

...what you call them. You have them in four categories, energy, vision, execution and leadership. I'd like to spend a few minutes on because I think it's the one most closely tied to customer experience. I'd like to spend a few minutes on the superpower number seven, product obsession. What does obsession mean to you in this context, and who should have this obsession? Very simple. It's complete micro management of the customer experience from the beginning by and it has to, almost always has to be the founder. It's pretty if there's a you know, another senior executive that that is passionate about it. But there's not a lot of company, gray companies, that don't have a founder that wasn't the driving force. If we go to even all the ones we've are we're all going to talk about over and over Steve Jobs at apple the driving force, or Kelliher at southwest the driving force. On that, Jeff bezos Amazon the driving for these people are micro managers when it comes to the experience. They go down. I mean we're talking Jeff Bezos knows that product page on Amazon like the back of his hand. It's not like he delegates that out. He knows exactly. I mean for better or worse. You know, there's a lot of criticisms on the Amazon product pages, you know, but it's what his vision is of an ideal customer experience. And then I don't even need to go into the store, as I read a few in my book about Steve Jobs and his obsession. I mean this guy, this guy would not purchase a vehicle or would purchase a new vehicle every few months just so it didn't have to have the California license played on it, because it broke the esthetics that he wanted to have on a day to day life. I mean just amazing stuff like that, and that's what I'm saying about obsession. Like if there's a misspelling on my website, the email design, it does not vibe with the actual website design, if we've done a logo change and the logos aren't match up or something that drives me bumpers. So in I think it has to be the founder that says hey,...

...you know what, this is incredibly important to me. Maybe I'm a little obsessive, please understand this is so important to drive this experience and I think it has to be founder again. So that is a great answer and you you went to these high level leaders. The cool thing about that is that typically I would think that an early start up founder would be obsessed for a while and then maybe kind of turn some of that off, but you've you know, you're talking about multi billion dollar companies and still having that leader that's deeply obsessed. And that actually goes into one of your primary tips in that section, is is having written standards, talk about the importance of documenting or organizing, because because what you're talking about here with this micromanagement, in this obsession is very, very high and very specific standards dictated from the top, and I use dictate specifically, and so you know, to make it work and to make it work across large teams and large organizations. I'm assuming that's that's where you go to. Written standards talk about the importance of organizing the standard specifically and documenting and sharing them. Well, you know, it's right in the title of my book about system so it is. It is. You can systemize these things, these things that are supposedly creative and intuitive. You can make systems for this and there's a lot of companies that have a very, very good system at building great experiences for customers. So, whether it's a roadmap, whether it's dog fooding, you know what we call a dog food and using your own product, and you wouldn't believe how many people don't use that. Many founders don't even know their own product having and use it and once they do, their horrified to find out that it's all over the place. It doesn't have a great vibe it. It doesn't have to feeling at all. There's miscommunication, you know whatever. So systemizing to me involved at least at least an annual touch point experience. That means you document what the customer goes through step by step for your product or for Roducts,...

...your main products, as it were, work dog food it yourself. Order, go through your website, order it, go through your catalog, whatever it is, go to your retail location, you go there and you experience that whole thing and too end and you find out work in the magical touch be added throughout that thing. And it can be very difficult to do depending on the complexity of your company, but I think it's critical to do it at least once a year something some places probably even more that it if it's so important. But I was reading recently that every and be storyboards the hut, the entire thing. So they put every step of the way from going to their website to actually walking in the front door of that rented AIRPNB, they did a storyboard and they make sure each touch point on there was kind of, you know, a magical kind of sirs, and I think that's what it takes. That's a great recommendation. As you were talking, of course, I was walking out. As you were saying, this can sometimes be very complex or time consuming. I'm already thinking about the multiple subscription levels we have in the different ways people engage with us and walking through each of those. You know, it's an individual or for a team subscriber and all these other things, and we also have storyboarding up for different aspects of it. So great tips there. You also advocate their focusing on the customer. Right. So, you know some people think, when they think of like a Steve Jobs, just go back to him again, that he's just an obsessive person. He has a very particular esthetic and he really wants to focus or talk about the importance of focusing on these things, not just to control them, but specifically for the benefit of the customer. Well, I mean you have to you have to think as the customer because as founders, as you know, employees at that companies, we've tended to believe just, you know, the whole company is our little little piece of it. You know, you're doing marketing, you know, I'm doing product whatever here. Maybe I'm doing customer service. So your customer service person thinks you're a customer service...

...company. Your engineers, if you're an engineering company, your CEO, thanks, you're, you know, on operations tide company. That's actually not what the customer seas at all. They don't see your day to day. They have no idea what you do on a data they don't care about your problems day to day. They just care about what it's like for them to deal with your company. And that's why you got to you got to turn around, you got to make it about them. And it's hard because you have to basically forget how your company works. And this is, I've called this before, almost a scheduled the amnesia. So when you're going to do your walk through, you have to forget how any in the back end works. You know, may I'm going on my owner forms. I'm thinking about, oh Jeez, the engineers that fixed the load speed and love. Well, you know, you need to approach the whole thing as if you have no idea what the back end looks like, how the procedures work with that company. All you care about is your experience. So if you can kind of get at that level, I think that's where the true geniuses like Steve Jobs and Jeff beagels kind of lie at it. Just they know exactly. They're able to look at it with, I guess, kind of crush out. I guess would be the main thing that. Yeah, the Amnesia is definitely hard to come by. I know when I've tried to do the same thing, you know I'm always a one step ahead. Like I always try to is word daydreaming and strategizing these other things. I'm always just kind of like, that's cool, but we're going to need to do this, this, this, this, this to make it happen, and so it's really difficult to to create that separation. I think that's probably why some companies higher secret shoppers and that type of thing, to create a little bit more of a true objective view. You also talk a little bit within product Obsession About Superior Service. You've already given several examples of that, but you have anything you want to share on either the importance or some some executables around truly providing a superior service? Like what a superior for you? It's actually that one. I take straight out of our core D that's one of our core values and the reason why it's so critical superior service. And you will see that a...

...lot of the companies we talk about, pretty much all of them can can be tagged with that kind of a description, because it's pretty much the only differentiator you can have when your competitors or one click away these days. So you know, I can go. You know, when I'm researching a product, I'm on Amazon, maybe I'm on another website, maybe I'm on another person's, you know, better companies, website, whatever. I have no idea the real difference, you know, in the products, you really don't experience you know until you get it. It's the support and the actual service that you get that's probably the easiest differentiator to do. This is amazing to me that a lot of companies, especially startups, don't, don't focus on this. You know, they won't answer emails for days, they'll have in a lot chat, they'll hide their phone number. You know these things and I'm like, wow, that's easily one of them. That's easily one of the ways you can differentiate yourself between your thousands of competitors or hundreds or even dozens. So if you're not focused on service, you better have some other really, really good aspect of your product. Like it. It has to be so good that they don't care to services back. You know what I'm saying? So, so, even even then, if you had had a great product and great service, cheese. I don't even I don't even know how you lose with that. Frankly, right, that means that every customers producing additional customers because they can't not talk about you, like the companies we've already been talking about many times. I loved it in that passage there you offered very specifically communication channels as the specific mentions around service because, just as you know, you don't have to get everything perfect. If someone comes in with a question or even a complaint or a problem or something, you don't have to nail it on the first try. You just need to communicate with them and let them know they've been heard, let them know that you're working on it and let them know that a solution will be or some kind of resolve will be forthcoming. I think that that communication, and timely communication,...

...is so key because in the absence of no you know when someone's waiting for a response or waiting for a return phone call or whatever. I don't know about you, but I think on average, you know, our minds go to the negative, like, Oh, it must not be going in my favor, or else I might have heard back by now. Or what's going on there? Maybe there's no one there, maybe I'm not going to get my money back, all these other things. So availability and communication is is one of the easiest ways to set yourself apart in terms of service. Let's go to superpower number eight, because I think it's really important. I think it's especially important because you've already alluded to the you know, the cross functional nature of customer experience and and how a lot of people are responsible for it. Talk a little bit about the agency mindset. What is agency in particular, and how would you, how are you advising early stage people to build that mindset? So agency mindset. A lot of people probably aren't aware of the word being used in this banner, usually agency. They think like advertising agency or whatever. This is the concept of if you have something to get done, it will get done. You have in you will impose your will on reality and you will get things done that need to get done. You don't have to be reminded, you don't have to be prodded, you don't have to be constantly retrained, coached or anything. Somebody with an agency mindset they have a task to whether it's given to them or whether it's you know internally, you know from their own will they get it done, and we've translated. Is the easy you know, agency is kind of the fancy word. The other one that most people are familiar work is the phrase get or dumb, and it's the country right next stars and whatever the that comedy was. It just get or done, dude. Do they get the task done? And this is so it's easily the number one superpower, I think, in my out of my sixteen, it's my my number one favorite. It's...

...easily, I think, the most important for any founder. It's basically imposing your will on reality. So if your person that can get things done, you're unstoppable in life. Yeah, I will, especially the way you described it right off the top. They're of imposing your will on reality. I'm going to make this happen, even though it doesn't exist right now. is about to existent, as about to happen. Let's say someone is a little bit I would say this is probably, as in a characteristic of most hardcore entrepreneurs and founders. But let's say someone needs to develop that more as a skill or you want to cultivate it in one of your team members. How do you develop that mindset for someone that might not be strong in that area, because what I'm thinking of here is, you know, based on what you've already shared here, is okay, know what the standards are. I know I need to experience the product and get a sense of what's good and what's bad about the experience and I need to focus on the customer and I need to be great at service. But that involves getting a lot of things done. Some people aren't as strong willed or don't necessarily even have that sense of of I guess it's considered an internal locus of control. Is another way to talk about agencies like I control what happens. How can someone cultivate that in themselves and or in their team members? I believe everyone has an agency. With that you just have to like the fire. So the example of the book that I use is that say, you know, just casually I mentioned to a friend maybe they only a thousand dollars. I say hey, you know, I kind of need that money back and I have it. You know, at the end of the day, and you know most of the way, he's going to happen is not going to happen. That's you know, just you know. Let's tell you a pas on stamp basically. But if they needed a thousand dollars for a life saving medication that they could only acquire by hustling, running around, maybe bagging, pleading, maybe even stealing to save a loved one's life, that's going to get done. Okay. So it's just it's a matter kind of changing your mindset on is it important for me to get this done? Am I going to place importance on...

...that? If you can kind of change your mindset on that, I think that's set number one to change your mindset on how you even think of the concept of how you get things stuff is it? Is it a must do, or is it maybe I'll kind of do it and, Geez, it's not working out as harder than I thought. I just you know them. You need to work on developing just a little changing your mindset on the second very important thing is that a lot of employees, you know, when they think about mind you, like you mentioned, they said they get intimidated. I think I think the reason is a lot of them overthinking. You know, what I read about in the book is there's a very, very martial mindset to people with agency. So how do you lose weight? Well, you exercise and you eat less. I mean literally, that's a person with with agency. That's kind of how they think they're not going to go into well, depending on your bottom type, and if you adopt the lowcarp Diet and you know a thousand things and Oh Geez, you have to do this specific exercise for you know, if you overthink it, which is the bane of intelligent founders, by the way. They just overthink everything, if you start having this Marshall kind of mindset, also military mindset. I mentioned the famous yoga quote in the book do or do not? You know. It's there's no truck. So I think it's just a mindset change, but it's also just a stop overthinking change. Yeah, it's really great. You also had another great quote around there from Carl Young. You are what you do, not what you say or do, which is just not that far away from there. To love that devastating. It like if you don't have because I found that quote many, many years ago and I was like, Oh my God, I'm not even you know a lot of people say what they you know, and that's their whole identity. But it just people care what you do, not what you say. So, and that's a big way to get to agents take because starting to think like that, that's great.

Also produces integrity. When you do what you say, will do, you know, and it's a wholeness within yourself and in your relationships with other people. I want to give you a chance to talk a little bit about, you know what I think we've been talking about a lot of the things you've learned over the past twenty years working with so many different types of companies. I want to give you the chance to talk a little bit about about your company, which is called my company works. And you know, what type of experience are you providing them? What is it typical engagement look like? And and maybe what are a few things that you know over the past seventeen years as you've been building and running this company in order to help other companies or help other people build and run their companies? You know, what does that engagement look like? What are some things you've learned about the way you're serving them that you've may be tweaked or improved or stop doing or added to the process? Well, yeah, so my company works like company Workscom is our central we take all of our orders online. So many, many years ago there was kind of this complicated process where you had to approach the secretary of State or your local county filing office to go do all these things. Obviously this process has been massively digitize. Even some states do the the thing. But what we do is we help people start companies in all fifty states and all types, WELC's corporations, as corporations, you name it. So we provide a lot of kind of the silly red tape paperwork course startups and we've served over Fiftyzero people at this so we think we're pretty good as far as the experience. It's a very simple thing. So I mean it's so simple it's actually panicky to some of our clients. They actually think, Oh my God, that's it. It's quite ten minutes on. Yes, it really is. So we've simplified it to the point where we take very basic data. We need to know the company name, we need to know a few names of in addresses of the owners and a little bit of data sometimes about stock if you're going to do a corporation. We provide plenty of help...

...and walk throughs about these things. We know the questions are going to ask, so we've answered them a thousand times already, and the online, you know, in either on our website or any order forms themselves. So what we've done over the years, because we continue to simplify that to the point where, again, it's actually panicky to some people. They get submit and Geez, in a couple of days they have a whole company, even when the tax id you know, everything is already done and they can't believe it. So and are bragging about that. That's just something we it took seventeen years to get there, you know. So the customers now are way more demanding. And they were two thousand and one they thought this was magic, that they could do this online. By two thousand and nineteen they they have a much high we have competitors all over the place. They're trying to undercut us. So we have to we have to really up our games. So what we've done is we've built a lot of tools, a lot of free tools, a lot of customer experience tools, I guess you could call them. For example, once called our start up wizard. It shows them exactly step by step to do the postformation things. A lot of people don't know how to issue the stock in their company or adopt the operating agreement or there's some weird things. If you want venture capital, eighty three be elections, these various things. We organize that in a very, very simple step by step wizard as custom bies to your state and he so you chose the Delaware LLC. Everything is already there for you, step by step, to guide. So that's very important. We notice a lot of our clients over the years we're having a hard time staying on top of the recurring stuff. So that's like your in your reports, you know, any renewals, stuff like that. So we built in and a report alert. So that's just another beefit of using our service. You come in, not only do you have to not think about the whole starting of the company, you don't really have to think about the maintenance of it. So well, this will send you these alert and we'll huven show you if you don't use us to like, for example, file you're in your report. We show you how to do it. So you do yourself. You're not pay us to do it.

So this is another free kind of thing that we've provided over the years. But I will mention that a two thousand and one customer is a dramatically different animal from a two thousand and nineteen. Customer expectations are way higher for service experience everything else. Yeah, you shared a lot of really, really good stuff there, and I'm going to bottom line it this way and correct me if I if I skip anything, not to minimize it. Anyone could just bounce back and listen to it all again, but it's know who your customer is, pay attention to the way that expectations are evolving. Look for places that add value, and by add value I'm not using the word value generically. I'm saying find ways to solve other problems that your current customers have and use that as part of the service experience to differentiate yourself from competitors. Geez, I don't disagree with one one Sintilla of that. That's exactly perfect, exactly. I would describe it awesome. I'm I got one more question for you, just because it's you know, it's something that we talked about talking about before we hit record, before I go to my standard clothes here. I want to know what are one or two of the most fatal mistakes that you see startups making that can take them under and maybe how can how can those one or two fatal mistakes be avoided. So I go really heavily into avoiding mistakes in my book, and the reason why is I think mistakes, avoiding mistakes, are is much, much better strategy than a thousand different to do list items that you can do that are like a positive thing. So what I mean by that is if you can just avoid some of the big, big mistakes, your chances of success increase dramatically. I mean dramatically. So I've discussed before that some of the life choices, you know, smoking, drinking, divorce, drugs, you know these things, bad relationships, just just trying to just avoiding the bad things, that, bad decisions and like easily put you in the top twenty percent. And the same principle applies...

...for business. So if you want to talk about one or two, first one founder disagreements. I speak from literal experience on this, but I have spoken to hundreds, if not thousands, of people. We have to deal with this at my company. You know, Oh Geez, I'm it's not working out with my partner. How do I get rid of it? You know, it's like no, they're stock involved. Now there's legal issues you have, you know, things that you need to take care of. So what I always say is you you figure out exactly how much that person is getting in stock and how much work it requires for them on an ongoing basis, because there's nothing that's going to hurt feelings more than someone who who gets twenty five percent of the company but they never even show up for the meetings or whatever. They did one thing for the first maybe three months, maybe six months, and then just disappeared. But they own, you know, the Court of the company but everyone else is working a y r. So just absolute devastating thing to companies. It's destroyed more startups than I can imagine even before. It doesn't matter how whether the product is if the founders, hope, get along. Wow, what a really, really bad time you're going to have. And then here's my second kind of a Dendom of that. Really, really reconsider the fifty split and stop if you're have two founders or the thirty three. Thirty three, you know, if you have three, really reconsider that. A lot of people. A deadlocks your whole company. So even flip a coin, someone's going to get fifty one, someone's going to make forty nine. That allows someone to prevent the deadlock in your company so to kind of move along. The second biggest one is easily marketing. I think a lot of people, you know, they really have the field of dreams. You know, build it and they will come, and that is Geez. That is you read about great products or that happened and it just took off and wow, demand just kind of generated itself, and that in a real world cheese. You know, the better marketer win every time. So if you don't think you're cool enough to do sales, of...

...cool enough to do marketing, cool enough to have to actually go out there and actually work at that provoding your product, I would advise you to rethink that. There's a whole chapter in my book about growing it. We go over that very simple things again again. It's just not making mistakes. Have a decent website, have some decent marketing materials. You know, have a strategy for dealing with leads. You know, having a posted note on your computer is not a strategy for dealing with leads. Even a spreadsheet is way better than that. Have something, build some systems out and you will dramatically, dramatically. Those two alone the founder issues in the marketing easily. That talks to I think, simple but proven and difficult to execute advice. Really good stuff. And just to tie the avoid mistakes thing to customer experience, trying not to Piss people off, and you're already ahead of a lot of really terrible companies. That be a fun separate podcast, but we need to wrap up here. Matt. I've really enjoyed the time and I always like to give you because relationships are our number one core value here at bombmb and here on the customer experience podcast. I like to give you the opportunity to think or mention someone or people who've had a really positive impact on your life or career and to give another shout out, even though we've done a few, to a company that's doing customer experience really well. Well, as far as a person, and I'm not saying it's related to customer experience, but it's more of a philosophy of business, is all Robert Khant. I don't know if you know him. He's famous on twitter. It's at the ball and AB Al. His twitter count is the source of so much wisdom. I mean that they're calling him the angel philosopher. At this point he's he's also a start up boyd been just so influential and he's not one of these you know, agro go, get them, you know huscle Hustle, hustle...

...business. You know he's he met Tates for an hour day before even gets to work and he doesn't do anything. He doesn't like to fun and he's got to eat. Runs angelist. If you've heard of that company? Yeah, so and owns angelists. They think guy is the most unstressed, low stress, you know, insightful guide ever seen in my life. Really really appreciated. I use a lot of his quotes in my in my book, so loving. He's been very, very influential on me. As far as the company's Jeez, you know, it's hard to to not sound, you know, kind of just mundane. But you know, southwest has always been just a beautiful experience for me over deck at literal decades. I live in Texas and the S S, so you know I was a kid in the S, but in the s that's even that. Back then they were awesome. Amazon and Apple. I think I I support those two companies right now like basically unconditionally. There's there's almost nothing they do at this point to discipline. stuff going. And then recently, I will just have a shout out to select quote, I was buying a simple you want to talk about, Monday and I was buying a life insurance policy. You know, you're getting older, you have kids, you think about these things. You like that is be awful. Select quote did an amazing job. I mean their emails even showed you. You get an email at the top of it's a little tracking weater. They show you exactly where you are in the process and how many more steps is going to go. Here's The d signature and here's the quote and Click here to accept it. and Bam, a couple days later, after they get the medical records, which they did on their own, I didn't have to go to my doctors. I mean the whole thing was done and I was like wow, this is really amazing. So that is shows you what a good bust our experience they do and I'll tell everyone about it. I'm telling you right now, all your listeners, it's awesome. That is to benefit right there of delivering great customers, Customer Experience and Superior Service. To use some words from your book is that it ought your existing customers make new customers for you because you've done so well by them. Matt,...

...this has been a pleasure. How can someone connect with you or with my company works? Well, my company Workscom, obviously, is our headquarters for everything related to startups. We have a ton of content on their blog. He rings in a twitter ors that my company works me personally. You can hit me up at Matt Mecom and Matt K and ECOM or our twitter matt me, and my emails on the website as well. You need to reach out. He just want to say hi. Awesome, Matt. I really really value your time and your insights. Continued success to you. I love what you're doing. I think entrepreneurship is so important, so vitally and fundamentally important to the health of our nation and to the world in general, just people getting out their solving problems and creating jobs for each other. I think it's awesome what you're doing, which you continued success and if you, the listener, enjoyed this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe to the customer experience podcast so you don't miss more great conversations like this. One. You're listening to the customer experience podcast. No matter your role in delivering value and serving customers, you're in trusting some of your most important and valuable messages to faceless digital communication. You can do better. rehumanize the experience by getting face to face through simple personal videos. Learn more and get started free at bomb bombcom. You've been listening to the customer experience podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player or visit bombombcom. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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