The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

216. Creating an Environment of Continuous Coaching w/ Morgan J Ingram

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Our Human-Centered Communication expert series is back! Listen to our most popular episodes with guests featured in our Wall Street Journal bestseller to pick up perspectives, strategies, and tactics to break through digital pollution and make real, human connection. 

Taking a teaching focus means truly listening to and identifying with the customer, and it’s built on a continuous coaching environment. To learn and to teach takes agility, vulnerability, and relatability. Find out how a 3x LinkedIn Top Sales Voice cultivated those traits in himself. 

In the fourth episode of our Human-Centered Connection expert series (which originally aired on August 10, 2021), Steve Pacinelli and I interview Morgan J. Ingram, Director of Sales Execution and Evolution at JB Sales Training, about personal communication strategies. 

Morgan chatted with us about:

  • Why no single role “controls” the customer experience
  • What he learned from being open on LinkedIn
  • How to become one of the 2-5% of people who take action on what they hear
  • Why becoming relatable and vulnerable was one of his best career moves 

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog. 

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The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Something we've been talking about quite a bit over the past year or so here on the customer experience podcast is the idea that your customer experience will never be better than your employee experience. and to the e x side, and as an employee at bomb bomb, I'm pleased to tell you that I'm taking advantage of the Sabbatical program so I've got several weeks off here. But the podcast continues, but the way that we're doing it is re racking some of the most popular episodes from our human centered communication series. So about a year ago I was joined by a co host for several episodes of this podcast. He is my longtime friend and team member, our chief marketing officer at Bom bomb and my co author on two books, Rehumanize Your Business and human centered communication. And with that second book, The Wall Street Journal Bestseller Human Centered Communication. We brought in eleven of our expert friends to inform a philosophy and practice, to provide strategies and tactics to help us truly connect with other people despite the digital divide. One of those expert friends Morgan J Ingram. He's the director of sales execution and evolution at JV sales with John Barrows and team. He is a video pioneer. He's featured in chapter thirteen of the book, a chapter we titled People First, prospecting, and in this conversation he talks through why no single role controls customer experience, what he learned by being open and vulnerable and honest on Linkedin, why the sales cycle should be smoother for the buyer in some ways to get that done, why so few people actually take action based on what they hear in videos and podcasts and other education that they're consuming, and why relatability was one of his best career moves to make. And now me, Steve Passonelli and Morgan J Ingram all excited this week for Morrigan J Ingram. He's the director of sales execution and evolution, which is a sweet title, by the way. At JB sales training. Uh. He's the creator of the one up Formula Podcast, three times linked in top sales voice, the creator of the SDR chronicles. And what we really like about Morgan and why we asked him to be a part of the book, is because he leads with the heart of a teacher. If you follow Morgan on Linkedin, you follow him online, you'll see that he posts with the heart of a teacher. He's training, he's educating, he's engaging, uh, and so we couldn't think of a better person to involve in the book and the podcast. All right, welcome Morgan. Welcome to the Hey, I'm happy. I'm happy to be here. I always enjoy interviews with you. Also excited to I have into another conversation. Yeah, so we'll start on this show where we always start, Morgan, which is customer experience. When I say that, what does it mean to you? So this is this is really interesting that this question is coming up because it's been something that I've been studying like very hardcore for the past like three months and when I think of customer experience, I immediately think of Disney so and everything that they do, right to the wristbands to how they help people, even if I don't even don't know this, like this is when I was like, Disney is just crazy. So basically, Walt Disney literally would buy pretzels snacks and eat it and count how many steps so that he knew and when he was done with the snack or the piece of food. And we need to put a trash can here. But it's the most wild like that's crazy, like who's doing that? So, like, I've been doing a lot of studying on the customer experience of v I P, like how to like basically make people feel special with v I P programs and making them feel a part of the entire experience. So so my answer is, when it comes to customer experience, it's about making people feel like they're part of the word I'll put air courts, the community, but I think it's actually making them have an emotional feeling and bonding towards the brand, just beyond a logo that you see right when you go to Disney world, right and you see Mickey Mouse, like, Yo, I want to take a picture with Mickey Mouse, but I'm here in the land in six flags. Yo, I don't know. I'm not gonna take a picture with anybody. Six flags right, like, like I'm just trying to ride the rides. But like, if I this is like Yo, we gotta get a picture with Mickey Right. Star Wars, the same thing. So, like that's what I think about customer experiences. Like creating an emotional bond with the customer, so the retention levels are high and also they're willing to be advocates and share their experience...

...with others. Yeah, I love it. Well done in that emotional connection is the thing. Uh, it's so fun to ask that question to people with so many different backgrounds and I love that you're diving into it. I think it's an important conversation and happy to have you in it. Follow up on it and I'll ask it in kind of in two layers. Like one, I know that you're teaching and training and engaging with typically sales teams in a variety of different organizations. So, Um, for maybe what you've seen in other companies and maybe how you think about it at JB sales yourselves. Um, do you prefer to think of it as like a role or a title or a position or a responsibility of a person or team or you prefer to think about making experiences for customers better through culture, ethos, kind of this transcendent thing that everyone is engaged in, like what are you seeing out there? M Hm. So, yeah, let's go. This is the first part in terms of is it does one role control of the experience? I think the answer on that is no, all roles control the experience. So let's let's give an example. So when I tell when I train SDRs, I tell them that you are the first contact, typically if it's net, if it's net, new and cold for that organization to know what you're about. So if they having a bad experience where your email is not as good, you do a connected pitch that's like gonna make someone annoyed, or you do a coal call that's really off. Like that's the first impression, right, and now they're gonna be like, I don't really know if I want to deal with that brand, right and so. So strs deal with the customer experience because they're the first touch. It's the same with an a e. like a s will hop on the call and the person would be like hey, have you done any research on my company, and they're like no, and it's like wait, what? So like now I don't I don't really care about this conversation anymore, like I'm trying to get up this call as fast as possible. So the customer experience is not just when the deal is closed and it's not just for someone who is in customer success or customer experience. The experience is a sales cycle, right. I want people to feel comfortable and I want to be relatable to the buyer, because if I'm not doing those things, then why would you buy for me? And also, the buying process should be made simple, not complicated. Right, the more complicated something is, the more you're like, yeah, I don't, I don't want to buy this, like you're making this way too hard for me. And I think a lot of times the sellers, and when I when we train people and we coach people, is that you have to really be focusing on. How can you make this a great experience for someone? Right, because you can always go probably find another product that does the same thing similar summarily's right. It's the same thing when you go to the dentist, like if the Dinnis isn't given a good experiences, all right, cool, I's gonna go too their dentists. There's a lot of DNNIS is out here, right. So it's the same thing. You have to come into the sales cycle and be like, how can I make this a great experience for the buyer that it's very smooth. I have I set up the next steps, I tell them what the next steps are, I tell them what expectations are and I try to solve that problem them. And it's the same for the SDRs too. Now on the second end is the on the culture piece. Now, this is really interesting is that, if you think about this from a content perspective, I'm gonna go this route. Most webinars are boring and they suck. It's just just period like they're just awful and that's why people leave like in five, ten minutes. And again, the big piece of that is everyone's very focused on just the content. Now, the content itself, right, if I'm just there for just the content, then I could go and just listen to the reply. I don't really need to be here, right. It's the same thing with a concert, right, if the artist just comes out and just pulls out like they're no paddling. Hey, I'm just gonna read the lyrics out to you all like yeah, I can't just listen to this at home, right. So, so the key is with the Webinar, right. And do you think about the culture? I think the concerts, and I would love to hear what conscious really stood a to you about the concerts. That I remember is I remember being experience, like I felt like I was like I was there and it was an emotional connection. And it's the same thing with webinars. Is that, at least what I run a webinars, or the webinars that I really enjoy, is that it's experience. Right, they're engaging with the audience, they're asking questions, they you know, they maybe they have music in the background. These are things that we have to be thinking about, because this is like this is like the really interesting point. This is my last point, is I think sometimes when it comes to marketing and sales, we forget the things that we enjoy and we don't try to add the things that we enjoy inside of the business of what we're doing. Yeah, super important point. I typically hear that point made in the negative, which is like you hate when this happens to you. Why would you do it to other people and I think that's kind of a common thing. I think less common is the way you positioned it, Morgan, and it's really smart, which is what do you really enjoy? Why don't you do more of that for your customers? I also love to hear from someone WHO's a professional sales trainer and SDR coach, uh, that you're teaching experience is really you know, we...

...agree that it's this transcendent thing, that's his cultural thing. So I love that, Um, that that you're teaching it from your seat, so go into your seat a little bit. Steve mentioned off the top. I totally agree. It's a really cool title. Um, break that down for a sales executive director of sales execution and evolution, like what's your core role, and then maybe speak specifically to the evolution piece, because I think I know what it means, just knowing you as I do, but I'm curious to hear it in your words. Yeah, so John and I were like, what's the title we can make up that no one else has and see how it relates to my actual role, because I don't you don't want to just come on and be like yeah, my role is just sales trainer, that's that's boring. I was like, we gotta we gotta do something more than that, John. So we we came up with a couple of ideas. We landed on director of sales execution evolution, and it's been that title because it makes the most sense. And so what that means is that on the day to day I am still executing and and most people who go through sales trainings, and this is a critical piece, and I'm gonna tell you all why is that. They have one they've never sold anything before, but they're training you, which is like that doesn't this doesn't make any sense. And then number two is they haven't sold anything in the past years. So they have really old examples, like hey, let me pull up my roller decks, and it's like the roller decks like all right, you know, this is outdated. Right. So that those are two things that typically happen. And so the model we have, and the model that I'm in is that you have to execute daily. So I'm prospecting daily, closing daily, running a sales running sales cycles, handing the objections, all those sorts of things. Is what I'm doing on the daily. So I'm able to relate to the audience, and the reason that's important to what I said earlier is that people in the training can sense that, especially senior reps, like I'm doing harding with senior reps, and then they'll they'll test you, they'll ask questions, hold up, like what do you think about this? Because I want to see, like do you actually know how to sell right? And if you answer those questions, then they're like okay, this person actually knows they're talking about. But if you can't answer those questions, you're gonna get destroyed in those strikings because they're gonna be like itself. So like that, people really resonate with that, you know, feedback of these kids like, and we always get this is an organization. It's like hey, like, this is real, because we know that you're actually still doing this right and you're just a guide in a sense. And so that's why it's like really important on why the this role is created, because I'm executing on those things and I'm also creating content. I'm also engaging with an audience, doing webinars and we just as mentioned the beginning, I have a podcast. So I'm doing all these things. So when I talk about time management and I talk about priorities. It's not that I'm just sitting on Linkedin all day long, like no, I'm actually like doing all these things. So, like I have to be diligent of my time. So when someone says, Hey, I'm too busy, I'm like, okay, like I am too like, let me show you what to do right. So we all could be successful here. So that's what the execution pieces. Now the evolution part is where I believe one of my core skill sets is innovation, and I recently read right of a lifetime, Bob Iger. If you have not read it and you're listening in, I go get it immediately because it's it's an incredible book. And one thing that he says in the book that his mentor told him is innovate or die. Innovate or die. And that's how I feel about sales, is that you have to innovator die. A lot of people say, and you all know that's like, oh, video, like it's a fat I don't know about that. I'm like all right, like it's still gonna be around in five years and like you, you've better learn how to use it. Like I'm not trying to like peddle this on either. Like you better learn how to use this, because it's gonna be important, like and so that's what the whole key was, evolution. So my role is to take the foundational structure we have at JV sales and then enhance it. So I'm like, Hey, video, like, let's figure out how to do linked in video. Let's how to learn how to use that, the sales cycle, linked in sales navigator. Let me show you exactly how to do that right. New Ways Open on the phone, let me talk about that. Digital direct mail. I'll talk about that too. I am willing to do things outside of the box because I don't I don't have any emotional feeling towards a channel, and this is my is the last important point that I'm gonna make. Is I don't get married to something. Look, a channel. A lot of people are like, I did this twenty years ago. This is the thing that I do. I don't care about anything else. Okay, it's twenty years ago though, right. You know, like Disney is still not making movies in black and white. They evolved a little bit, right. So, like that's the thing, like you have to be innovating. You can't get married to something because it worked even five months ago. Nowadays it's like, yeah, I did that five months ago, it doesn't work. I don't get married to it. I only care about the process of evolving and innovating and that's the evolution. You know, you you...

...basically just answered the next question that that I was going to ask, but I'll ask it anyway just to make sure that there's nothing left to uncover there, because you mentioned the experiences, the sales cycle. It's the process and in our last interview you talked a lot about agility and experimenting and learning and evolving, and you just mentioned all those things while talking about the evolution role. You know, of your title Um and talk to us. Is there anything else to offer about agility and changing your approaches and maybe how soon to do it, or maybe when the customer provides the trigger or the customer changes, you know, a more human centric approach, like what causes you to to make those moves quickly and to test and measure? That is a fantastic question, because we can, you can go super deep on on this. On this there's a lot here, so let's go my my first thing that comes to mind and this is something that everyone can do, and I would probably probably say two to five percent of people do this. And when I say I would actually love to hear your percentages. So webinars, podcasts, like we're doing this right now. How many people, percentage wise, do you think we'll actually listen to anything and actually take any type of advice and actually do it? Do? You said two to five. I said two to five, and I might be being generous. Yeah, I think you are. You are, and I think it's for a couple of reasons. I think one, people don't take enough time to digest and process and make sense of what they're cancer. Like. I think a lot of people read a bunch of books, they listen to a bunch of podcasts, but they don't create the additional time to kind of do what you're proposing. For me, it's to reflect on it at some level and figure out what I like, what I didn't like. Sometimes it's taking notes. I mean I've seen Steve, Steve Uses is ipad pro and like takes all these notes by hand. Like I've seen some of those. So it's like like that exactly, like we're so focused on turning the next page or reading the next chapter or reading the next book or listening to the next episode that we don't take the time to like really get into it and like episodes that I love, I'll straight download onto my phone and listen to the same episode two or three times over the period of maybe a couple few weeks um just so I can experience it in different ways and try to absorb it. So, anyway, two to five could be generous. I'll go like one to four. What do you say, Steve? I say we're in the BALLPARK. Yeah, yeah, okay, so that's fair. So so we agree that it's like one to five scale. Right. And so my take on this from an agility standpoint, and I started to do this in the past two to three months, is when I listen to a podcast, I find one thing, one thing to go do, like immediately. So I'll give you all an example. I listed the podcast fifteen minutes and she was talking about her name is Jasmine Star. She was talking about writing a letter to yourself for the end of the year. Now most people will hear that like that's woo woo, that's crazy, that's a mystical aspect, that's stupid. I was like all right, I don't really know, like it doesn't hurt me. This is gonna take me twenty or thirty minutes to write myself a letter, and if it doesn't work, I'll just say it doesn't work. But if it works, that's incredible. Right. So I was like, yeah, I wrote the letter literally, what three days ago? I did this, and then I put an envelope and I was like, all right, we're gonna see if this works at the end of the year, like. But the thing is, like that was quick. I didn't have to think about it, and that's that's the point here, is that when it comes agility, you can't think about it. You know, I'm a huge fan of like superhero movies and things that nature. You think of the Flash, the flash just he's got super speed, he just runs. He doesn't think about he's like Yo, I can run fast. That's it. That's what I do right, like he doesn't think about it. And the same thing is, like I think we overthink the information we get that Oh, someone's gonna make fun of me, someone's gonna be mad at me that I did this. Honestly, I think we overthink. It waits too much. People don't care as much as we think they do, and so as we could just take one thing from podcasts on a Webinar and actually do it and then see, like, if it works or not, that's really key. And I would think number two to layer into the agility piece is that when you're listening to these podcasts, listen to a podcast, because this kind of goes through the questions Steve, like listening to podcasts that have your customers on them and hear what they're talking about, to be like Whoa, okay, like I did not know. That was a huge obstacle, like maybe we need to go update our product or maybe we need to figure out a service on this. And I think a lot of people don't take the time to actually listen to their customers on podcasts. And it's gonna be different for everyone because, you know, they may not have one or you may have to go take a deeper dive, but I promise there's a reddit out there right there's a podcast, there's an interview, there's a youtube, there's something. You can find it. And those are the two points I want to make to add on to the agility piece. To add to that. Do you think that SDRs and B drs today have enough latitude to one be agile and and do the things...

...that they need to do because they're in the role, and then to actually action upon it, or are they handcuffed by by the way that that most teams are structured? Yeah, okay, that's a fantastic question, because there obviously going to be some leaders out there that are like, what are you doing? And so my answer to the question is, because I know some people are gonna think about this, Morgan, I don't have time. You have time. That's that's a fallacy. I was able to hit over when of the hitting quota and I also had a youtube channel. So y'all can do it like I promise. And so by the fall up to that, though, is there is a blocker on the leader, for sure, because some people may be like, you're doing a little too much here. So this is where you have to pick the right topics to fur agility right. So if they don't allow you to do things in your prospecting motion, I would say maybe it's time to reconsider as a whole, because that you should, they should give you some autonomy to be creative. But if you want to say that that's fine, so you need to figure out, okay, instead of agility on my sales skills, I need to get agility from my creative mindset. They can't take away how you study, how people buy, they can't take away your mindset, they can't take away your drive, they can't stop you from being more driven that. That wouldn't make no sense. So now what you need to do is like, okay, I gotta think agility in a different way. So you just gotta study different topics, because if they're not gonna allow you to do the sales stuff, you still need to sharpen your mind and to be fast and to think about things differently so you could talk to your customers differently. So that would be my suggestion. there. Does that make BDR the toughest role in sales? But I mean I'm gonna say that the STR and b Dr Role is the toughest role in sales. You know, obviously some a s would be like, all right, closing stuffer. Okay, sure, but the thing but might. But the thing is with this, though, it's because of the circumstance of a B D r Str right, you're getting into your coming into a role. Me, I didn't know what crm even was right, and I have to go learn technology that I'm not familiar with, and now I gotta go talk to c suites and VPS and managers. Probably eighteen percent of managers actually know how to coach. So, like, you have a lot of odds against you, like as an a e, like I say, it's a I'm not saying it's the easiest role in the world. That's what I'm saying here. All I'm saying is that you already probably have sales experience, you probably have a better manager, you probably have better resources, you might have inbound giving you leads to sell, right, but as an outbound bt R str like you have to go home. You have to figure that out and there's not a lot of people that can really coach on that. So that's why it's a huge obstacle and it's a it's a mental game, because when you close the deal, people are like yeah, that's awesome, yeah, awesome. You schedule a meetings, like all right, you gonna can you schedule another big meeting? Like, what are you doing? It's like what? It's just a different game. Yeah, who, Um, you know, I get that. I get that feeling a lot and I think it's a really fair question. Like is it the toughest job in sales? Is it the toughest job in assass organization, running organization that has it? Um, in your perspective, like that, the time that you do spend on Linkedin the people that you do engage, in the community that you've built around the things that you care about, Um, and in the training that you're doing. Like who's doing it well? and Or, if you don't want to like name names, Um, what are some of the best organizations doing? I know you said, like I infer from your your previous answer, that you know the eighteen percent of probably doing it well because they have good managers. But like, Um, you know who's doing it well? Or what are the better organizations doing to support this this role, or how are they structuring it? Or you know, what are some of the good things going on out there in BDR SDR World From The coaching perspective? Yeah, like, like who who has a BDR SDR team that is performing well and is well supported, is is well developed? Like, what does that look like today? Yeah, I mean I can point to just a couple of teams that I've just worked with and I've just been thoroughly impressed. Um, I would say first and foremost, I always give and they got acquired, but I always show love the workfront. So you know what Justin high like, Oh, just good people across the board, like that team is just just just very strong. But obviously that team is completely grown. Sin Is getting inquired, but they just do a great job of enablement. I mean I was just so impressed by what they did from an able and standpoint, the weekly coaching that they had, how they drilled in the topics, like how they kept people super discipline and how they had just a good track to promotion. Like they just did a really great job. And you know, also give love to snowflake. You Know Lars, you know he's he's been in the game for a very long time and the way that he sets up structures for his teams and the way he operates it is always phenomenal. And then I'll show love to Kevin Dorsey as well, Katie, and he's also from what I know of him and the feedback I know from other reps, he does a great job of coaching too. And the key here is that from all three of those people that I mentioned, and a I have a lot...

...of respect for them, is because they do to things. They do too. They do two things right. So they're teaching you on sales, but they're also teaching you, like on you as a person. And I think what happens a lot of the Times is people only focus on the metrics. So like, uh, you're not doing good at cold calling. She should do more calls. It's like, wait, no, there's a lot more. They're like maybe something is going on in life. Right, maybe you actually need to figure out that it's this one thing that they're doing in the call that you could fix, and it's actually not more calls, it's their intros awful. So if they make more calls, is actually worse. Right. So people, I don't think, are diagnosing when they're coaching the sales skills and also they're not not diagnosing the person. And from those three individuals, I know they do that really well because I know them personally, but also as well, like I know from what they've built over and over and over again, that they have those coaching organizations and they could build other coaches and leaders, because I've also seen their leaders do the same thing too, and so like those are three organizations like a point too, because they just have consistent and contain penuous coaching environments. It's not just you got on boarded, good luck, which most oversations. Unfortunately, that's what happens. That's why it's so hard for bd r s RS, because like okay, cool, you got certified, good luck, and then there's nothing else there. It's just like I gotta go figure out myself, which could be an obstacle and hard for some people because some people aren't driven to go find the information. Yeah, I love that. I love that layer of not just coaching to the to the metrics and the software and the activities per se, but being a whole complete person in the role and just that, like, I mean, we've all experienced in our own lives, or else I don't think we have the privilege of doing things like hanging out on a podcast for work. Um, you know, we've all benefited from people who cared about us as individual human beings and invested in us that way, and it's it's just so key. It helps. I know it's helped me show up as a better person every single day. Um, you know that I have the support, and I mean it sounds soft, but the care of the people around me, it just makes a world of difference. Um, slight shift in conversation and even a shift a little bit away from C x. But Um, you know, Steve mentioned off the top, linkedin top sales voice for three years running, probably four. I forget when they announced it. But you know, Um, you know what was your approach to the network, to linked in? Um, that do you think, Um, that that earned you that that recognition? Like, what was it? What did you see in the network, or what was your approach to it, or how did you invest in it in a way that it was so rewarding for you and that earned you that type of recognition? What do you think? What do you think that dynamic was? Yeah, so I would say that when I first got on Linkedin there wasn't a lot of people posting videos at all. So, like was I started pretty content like six years ago. So there was no videos whatsoever. There was only blog post. Those blog posts written by people who had a little linkedin influencer thing next to their name, and then people who were consultants or sales trainers, obviously building their brands so they could get business. But I didn't see any sales leaders posting. There wasn't a lot of marketing leaders really posting. There wasn't a lot of reps posting, like there just wasn't any of that really happening. A lot of people that I saw posting were for their company to re share something. Hey, do you want to check out this job, or like a recruiter, like there wasn't there. I didn't know. There was no like influence. Right. There was like nobody. It was just kind of like yeah, these people are good at what they do. They post content, and that's because it's their job, right, and those people probably were elected to even do it, but they had to do it right. So my thing was that, like the people that posted those, not all, but some of the people that posted them, it was like they were coming from an untouchable place. And what I mean by that is like Hey, I've reached this spot and this is the spot that I'm at, and there's it's very hard to relate to someone like that. Like okay, you're way over there, so I'll listen to you, but like it's hard to relate. And so the reason that I've seen that consistency and continuously will is because I aim to be relatable and vulnerable. So when I first came out with the ST chronicles, it wasn't me saying I'm the best str of all time. You need to listen to me, which some people's content. When I got into like Linkedin, like that's what they were saying, stuff like that, I just was like, yeah, I'm an str I'm doing all right. I suck at this actually. So if you want to follow my journey on how I actually get better, feel free to join me. Like that was me. I was willing to be vulnerable, I was willing to be relatable and I didn't come from a spot of this is me and and and. The thing is the reason that I was really focused on that is because I got advice from the man himself, Gary V, on this, because when I was creating content I was right out of college, so I was twenty three right.

So so think about this outrageous concept. A twenty four year old kid just starting in sales, with four months into the role, is out here on linkedin posting content. That's absurd. Like six years ago, that's just ridiculous. That shouldna be happening. So the thing is like, but I but I knew I needed to do it. So I was like what should I do? I remember like commenting on a facebook post, something like that, and he got back to me and he was like hey, like all you need to do is like not front, like you just see the document what you're doing. You need to be like this is what I am. Don't say like you've closed a million dollar deal, because someone's gonna like call you out and you're gonna get roasted. So like just stay when you're lane, you schedule meetings. This is all you need to do. And I was like, all right, cool, I'm listening to advice. I'thing to do it, and I took that advice and everything pan out to the way it is. So, like it's interesting because sometimes people will comment on my post and be like day, did you? Have you done this before? I'm like yeah, everything I post I'd done before. Like why would I post something I haven't done? I know people might do that, but like that's not me. That's a waste of time. Like I'm to tell you what I've actually done, so it can be relatable and you could feel it. So I think that the two factors really is relatability and being vulnerable and people could feel that because they're like Oh yeah, like he's not coming from a place of like I'm better than you. It's just like I'm just guiding you in a journey and hopefully you want to come along and learn some things. You're talking about authenticity and being relatable, which brings the rate to my next my next question, because I was scrolling through Linkedin one day and I see this post that just blew up with I don't know how many comments. It's like h three hundred comments. It was you and it was a post about your playstation. You're like, I just hooked up a playstation. I got these. You bought like five games or something. I forget how many it was, but it was like you dialed it said, so you got it in with the games the playstation, and it was just the interaction was just nuts. Talk about the the approach that you take in bringing your personal life onto linkedin two and and how, and I know you're not doing it to generate sales, but how does it connect? Like a post like that, like does that help you sell as well, just being more human and relatable? Yeah, so back backstory on it is that I have always been extremely career minded and focus. So, like when I first started off, it was just like sales, sales, sales, sales, sales, that's it, right. And I think I got to a point where someone even like told me, like a friend, was like hey, like, you know, every time you talk it's just about career. But like, I know you know more things than that. End You could talk about other stuff, but the only thing you talk about is this, is this. So like you almost disconnect yourself from the audience as just this one thing that you do, because and no one really knows who you are, so they can't feel like they could connect with you. They may be like this is great insight, right, this is great knowledge, but but I don't but I don't know you. So it's it's hard to actually like relate like even more, relates to even more than before, right, because when I said relatability, they were relating to the journey. They're relating to what I was saying, but I never like made it very personal. So there was no personal relation, right, just to just to clarify that point. And so I was like, all right, I I hear that. That's reasonable. I should be a little bit more open. So people can like see me as a person, right, and I always tell people is sales, is what you do, it's not who you are. And I got that advice from my mentor and that's what made me realize I need to be a little bit more open and like things that I like, because there's probably up there people out there who paraly like the same thing to me. Right. So the so it's like the very first post I decided to do, I was like, all right, let me just try this, and I did playstation. Yeah, I did a playstation two post and I was just like, all right, let's see what happens. I was like, Hey, y'all, I'm a huge Gamer playstation too. It's probably one of my favorite systems. My favorite game is this game, and what's your favorite game? Crazy, I was like what is going on? People are like, Oh, I don't know, you're a Gamer. They're like, Yo, this is my favorite game. It's like best post on Linkedin and I was like what's what I was like. I really did not expect this. I was just like okay, like this is pretty dope. So then I kept doing it. I was like, all right, game boy. Then I was like, alright, PC games all right, Star Wars Games, and then people were just like fired up and I realized I was like wow, like I should have just like been this open like the whole entire time, like I was so concerned about how people were going to react to me or be like like I don't want to follow a warror anymore because he's not giving sales advice. When, in return, to answer that question you asked, is that people who actually relate to me more like people, will hop on a call and be like hey, like, I actually saw you post up playstation too, like I'm actually a big place to too fan and this is like a VP. I'm like, okay, like we can talk about playstation two. And we talked about places too for like fifteen minutes, right, and then we talked about what we need to do. But it's just that it's a different...

...type of poor building, I've realized, and it creates better relationships and it does be to some sales at the end of the day, and people are willing to reach out and we could talk about those things, but I I never thought about just being open that I actually would lead to more open conversations and it's been really cool, or really cool on that. In Our last interview you were talking about conversations versus presentations, which you've credited to Uh Roderick Jefferson, and that's I mean you just described. That's what you do right there and Linkedin, you're creating conversations. You're not just presenting and pitching and presenting. Uh, you're opening it up. How are you doing that? You know, in other mediums as well, not just linked in and UH in your meetings or presentations or videos, etcetera. Yeah, I think one of the things is that the stuff behind me. So everyone, for the most part, always comments on the Mama mentality. They always say, oh, that's awesome, that's great, and so, like I put that there to like no, that's me, so I want you to see that. So I create that relatability there, um in time. In terms of the meetings, I always try to pay attention to what's in the background of the zoom, like what's going on, like in terms of they have like something hanging up or something like that, like someone may have, like I saw someone that had like an Iverson Jersey and I was like hey, like, what's your take on Iverson? Right, and we talked about Iverson for a while, right. So it was like that was cool. So, like I always just pay attention to people's backgrounds, not like in a creepy way, but I just want to see, like you have that back on the back of you for a reason, right, and you probably want people to ask you about it. Most people just don't ask for whatever reason. I'm actually just curious, like hey, before we even get to the conversation, like out of curiosity, like what is the reason for that? Right, like why do you have that? Is that a tiger? Stephen thinks the tiger behind you. Think. It's like yeah, it's like what is that about? Right. It's like I would I would ask too, like because I'm actually gally curious, and that's the piece. Like I'm generally curious about things. I'm not just like asking to ask, but I really want to know. And so, like that's how I incorporate it in trainings. If we had like a week of training and then we come back the next week, I always ask people, Hey, what what was the highlight of the weekend? Right, so this is just a tip for everybody. There's like a whole study on this. It's in Vanessa. Than Edwards Book Cap Captivate. Yes, so she talks about how there are certain phrases that we use that people just don't like, but we say them, like how's your day going, or like how are you doing, or like what's the way? Like things like that, right, and so, like you can ask someone how they're doing and you're gonna get a generic answer. But instead what she talked about is, like what if you say, like what was the highlight this weekend, or like what's been the highlight in the past twenty four hours? It gets you thinking differently and it's like HMM, so instead of asking people like Hey, what do you do for work, that's a boring question, right. So what you should ask people is, like tell me where your day to day looks like, because that's different. Right. Then you're like, oh, like my day to day, like yeah, morning, this is what I do, their afternoon, etcetera. So you get more information. And so my point, and when I'm bringing it back to is that when it really comes down to making sure that you're having these meetings and trainings and bringing out these certain things, I always just pay attention to what peoples surroundings are and then I'll ask people like Hey, what was your highlight this past weekend or like what's been a highlight this week? You know what's something exciting you're looking forward to, because there's are questions that people don't get asked and it really opens up the conversation to learn a lot more about that person dropping knowledge bombs. You can see why he's a part of our upcoming book here. Um, speaking of the book, we're super grateful that you participated in this project with human centered communication and, uh, we know you've you've had some access to some of the other sections of the book here and there. What chapter or person or just topic are you super interested in getting out there in front of people? So, so, I'm really excited. Two, read, reread Dan Tears section. So so dance. So shout out to Dan on this. So I knew Dan. Wow, I connected with Dan like before I even got into sales, before I even created the S R chronicles. Actually connected with him on a platform called Blab. I don't know if any of you'll even remember this platform. All right. So, basically, so, this this is this is wild. So blab is very similar to clubhouse, which you all probably seen or like played around with it before, and but it's video format, so it's four it's basically four spots you can be in and you know you're talking whatever. People can like clap and give you props if you're saying something good and you can collect claps. It's actually it's actually pretty cool. It's got no sunset it, but it's actually a good platform and basically people in the audience can also comment and give you feedback as well. So I was doing a podcast. I was basically doing like a podcast Blab with another person and Dan was one of the people that we interviewed and he just gave just incredible insights and I always remember him just drop been knowledge everywhere, and so I've always followed him ever since...

...then. So when I saw him in the book, I was like, Oh wait, Dann, what up? It's been a minute, it's been an I haven't talked something like in six years or something like that, but I've always just followed his content and stayed stay tuned and he always goes a good insight. So that will be definitely some good some stuff in there do that so awesome. Like Dan is one of these guys that you just ask and he shows up. You Ask and he answers the question you ask. He makes the introduction like just such a good dude. I love that. I just love that you connected with the years ago on a platform that I've never heard of. UH, yeah, yeah, so so again, for folks who are listening, we we brought eleven of our expert friends, like Morgan J Ingram, who you've just spent the past that I know, thirty five minutes with, and Uh and brought them into this conversation about how to be more personal, how to be more human, how to put humans at the center of the work that we do so the outcomes wind up in a situation that benefits people. I mean that's the reason we're doing all this work. So if you've been joy this conversation with Morrigan, Um one, he mentioned Vanessa Van Edwards. She was our guest on this podcast on episode fifty four, unlocking the science of video. Uh Dan tire back on episode forty of this podcast. The biggest transformation and prospecting in thirty years. By the way, that transformation is video email. It's so crazy, Morgan, that we spent all this time talking with you we never really even talked much about video. Video is a huge theme in the book and the chapter that Morgan has featured in has a ton of awesome video advice. Dan was also our guest again in this series that we're doing this summer on episode so feel free to check that one out before we let you go, Morgan, Steven has a couple of questions that I traditionally ask all the guests, but Steve gets to do it now. Yeah, I just got a crappier version of true. So, Morgan, this is your opportunity to thank or mentioned someone that just had a major impact on your life and and your career. Yeah, so I want to show love to Ralph Barci, and the reason I want to show love to him is because this is even. This is this is just funny. So he wrote a blog post back in twenty I'm trying to remember, and basically it was like this is what you should be doing to be a great str basically that was like the premise of the block, because I was trying to figure out like what even an str was, because I was about to get moved into that role, and so one of the things he mentioned was, hey, you should start a youtube channel as an str and share insights with your audience. And that's the way to grow your brand and that's gonna be a way to learn more information about n SDR because you'll be able to interview other sales leaders, and so I was like that's really interesting, and so I tweeted him and was like, Hey, has anyone started a youtube channel for SDRs, I could say, and I called it like something different. It was like str like playbook or something. I was gonna call it, but I changed the name and I was like hey, like, has anyone done this? And he's like no, like no one's done it. You'd be the first one, and so I was like all right, I'm gonna do it and he was like like he liked. He's kind of like okay, like you know, everyone says that, and so I remember like having that as a focus and I remember, like four months later, as an str like I created it and I like sent him the first video and he was like Oh, like you were serious. I was like yeah, like why would I not do this? Like you said, this is what someone should do, and that goes back to what I said earlier. So many people will overthink that concept. They're like, well, I gotta get a producer, I gotta go to camera. I gotta Learn Youtube. I just like you know, I literally have my macbook they gave me for work, and I was like, I'm gonna go film in and I'm gonna go fill them in one of the call rooms and just like figure this out right and and that's the big thing is you just gotta Take Action and start. But I'll definitely show love the route barsity and still to this day he's a friend and he's still a mentor and I still talked to him. That's a great story. How about a company that has just provided you with amazing, an amazing customer experience, where they just want a of and beyond a brand or a company that really stands out, and it could be anything. So I I gotta Shall Love Them. Stance. All right, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with stand sucks like like, like beyond belief, like and and here, and here's the reason why. So I used to go to New York like almost every single month for sales training. Got A lot of clients there and I would always go to the stance store and in Soho and so when I would go down, when I would go there like and again, I want to went once a month. Right. The people remembered me. They're like, Oh, what up? I was like what? They're like yeah, I'll see you, like because I go pretty frequently there because my brother in there too. So like I would say for the weekend and I would probably go twice sometimes. But the thing is, like they'd be like Yo, look what's up, and like we would have conversations. My other friends live in New York would go over there and so like what I would buy things. They would be like hey, so, like I'm gonna let you know, like here's like the new drop that's gonna come...

...out next month. So like if you come by next month, like these are things that you should pay at digit to. And then he was like, Hey, I've seen you bought a lot of socks since here. Like we actually have like a secret pack if you want to check that out. And so he would like show me like the secret socks. Right. And like obviously, like I'm a huge advocate because I kept coming but like as I as I kept showing up, that kept showing me more things. So like when people say, Oh, Morgan, so fire about stands, like yeah, because like when I went to that store, like they always hook me up. They remembered who I was. Like they were really cool about it, and it's actually this really cool because, like in other locations. So like when I was in Phoenix for vacation, I went in the stand store and like I talked to doe for like thirty minutes. They didn't know who I was, but like we just talked for thirty minutes and they were just like really relaxed, cool and I was talking about like wilacs stands and stuff. So like for me, like the customer experience that they have, at least when I go in there, is always top notch, which is why the only socks that I wear a stance. I love it. That is such a common theme when we asked these questions, when we've asked well over a hundred times now, that theme of essentially they see me as an individual human being and kind of meet me where I am and based on what they know. Um, you know, not every business can do that the same way, but we have tools available that can help us do that. And, of course, I think it also goes back to where we started, which is a cultural element where this is important. This is how we do it around here. This is the way Morgen Ingram feels is how we want everybody to feel. That's how we do it. Like so many, so many good lessons, probably if we spend another ten minutes on yours, but we don't have it. We're gonna let you get on with your day. We're gonna get list let listeners get on to maybe another episode. But before we do, where would you send people if they want to follow up on the work that you do, if they want to connect with you on some of the various platforms that you engage with people on, if they want to check out one up? Like? Where would you send people who have enjoyed this conversation? Yeah, so, I mean first and foremost, if you want to follow me or if you have a question. Actually the best place nowadays actually hit me up on Instagram at Morgan J Ingram. So check me out there. Very simple to find. Um, in terms of the PODCASTS, it's called the one up formula with Morgan J Ingram. It's on spotify, I think, Google podcasts and also apple podcasts. Feel free to check that out. It's and the focus is around understanding what people do outside of their working career that make them successful. So you learn a lot, like about eating habits, Yoga. I'm into like infred sauna now, like I've just learned so much. I'm like that's weird, but I go try it. You and Steve can go down. I go go deep on that topic. We'll have to rather bring you on, Steve, because like it's just you. I literally have learned so much, like I'm in infreend Saunas every Friday now and I'm like what am I doing in my life, like who am I? So? So, yeah, if you're into that red light. Yeah, if you are into those things and you want to figure out how to become more holistic, right, become more of you, uh, the goals that podcast. We have some pretty awesome people on their corporate Bros, on their things of the nature and Linkedin all that. I'm on there too, so Morgan j Ingram can follow me there. Awesome. We will round up a bunch of these links. We do video highlights from this. So if you've been listening and you want to see Morgan, you want to check out some of the core passages that he shared here, Steve said, like just a bunch of gold in this one, and so we do those video highlights, we do the full audio, we do links to the things that are mentioned. All at bomb bomb dot com slash podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and Morgan J Ingram, thank you so much for a participating in human centered communication and be spending this time with us. In the future will be virtually selling and serving more often. But the channels we're trying to connect and communicate through our noisy and polluted and our faceless digital communication is both visually and emotionally impoverished. So how do we stand out? How do we truly connect? How do we make people feel like people and not like numbers? Yet answers to these questions and more from more than a dozen experts, including a marketing futurist from salesforce, the first salesperson at Hubspot, two co founders of VN Gresso and an emotional intelligence expert with seven US patents in the analysis of facial coding data by the Wall Street Journal Bestseller Human Centered Communication, a business case against digital pollution. Learn more about human centered communication at BOM BOMB DOT COM slash book. That's BOM bomb dot com slash book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit bomb bomb dot com slash podcast.

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