The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 week ago

220. Why Repeat Customers May Not Be Loyal Customers w/ Shep Hyken

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Repeat business is a goal everyone should aim for. But turning it into loyalty means creating an emotional connection between your customer and your brand. 

Ask yourself this: What am I doing right now with this customer to make sure that they’ll come back to me and not my competitor next time? 

In this episode of our Human-Centered Communication expert series (which originally aired on September 3, 2021), Steve Pacinelli and I interview Shep Hyken, Chief Amazement Officer and Customer Service Speaker at Shepard Presentations, LLC, about the drivers behind customer loyalty — as well as some loyalty killers. 

Join us as we discuss:

  • Why customer service is a philosophy of mind
  • How to differentiate between repeat business and loyalty
  • What the common loyalty killers are
  • How to hire to avoid apathy
  • Ways to leverage presentation skills to define success 

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog. 

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for the Customer Experience Podcast in your favorite podcast player.

The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. More than one guest on this show has referred to chef hike in as the godfather of customer experience. He's a C X and customer service expert, a New York Times Wall Street Journal in USA Today bestselling author, and he's featured in chapter eleven of our Wall Street Journal Best Selling Book Human Centered Communication. My Co author on that book, Steve Passonelli, joins me as a CO host in this conversation with chef. I've generally walked away from work for several weeks thanks to the bomb bomb sabbatical program so we're bringing back some of the most popular episodes from our human centered communication series. Here. CHEF shares with US why customer services a philosophy, how to differentiate between repeat business and loyal business, what the common loyalty killers are, how to hire to avoid apathy which is one of the loyalty killers and ways to leverage presentation skills to improve our success. Here's me, Steve and chef hiken. Today we are talking with Shep hike in and he's a returning customer, returning visitor to the customer experience podcast. The last episode was packed full of great content and if you don't know who Shep is, well you probably do know who sheep is. He's written, is it eleven books now, sheep? Eleven different books? Well, uh, eight, plus a re boot which, if you want to count that when it's okay. But I've written at least eleven articles um a month for the last I don't know how many years, which which brings you to New York Times best selling author, USA Today Best Selling Author, Wall Street Journal best selling you know a lot of people say they're best selling author and it and it doesn't come with New York Times or Wall Street Journal or USA Today, with books like yeah, yeah, right, yeah, Hey, and by the way, nothing wrong with being an Amazon best selling author, because once you are, you are, and that means there had to be a lot of books sold that day for you or that week for you to be able to make that list and that, and that's why we have you on the show, because you're you're raising our egos up, because we are best selling authors. Thank you, chef. We appreciate that. I'll tell you I am pretty pretty proud of for a fleeting moment, I had a book come out back in well, it's the one that hit the New York Times list. No, actually, strike that, it's the first one that hit the Wall Street journalist. was called the cult to the customer, and for a fleeting moment it was the number one book of all books sold on Amazon, of all books, not just business books, all books. That's a pretty but it was just for a moment in time. And and something tells me that you might be back. Oh, see what I did there. See what I did there. Oh, that's good, that's good. I mean the new book. I'll be back. How to get your customers to come back again and again? That's right. So, so Ethan, why don't you kick us off with the first question? Yeah, so, chef, for folks, just a final button. Their customer service expert, customer experience expert. He has been teaching this, he's been writing about it, he's been speaking about it for decades. So, chef, I'm especially excited to hear the difference, perhaps, or the similarity between your answers to this question. You did it the first time you were here. We talked a lot about be amazing or go home. CHEP.

When I say customer experience, what does that mean to you? Sure great question, because people often confuse customer service with customer experience. Services in experience Um and experiences just much larger than customer service. So, uh, customer services the interactions you have with people. By the way, customer service is not a department, it's a philosophy in my mind, that be that's become embraced by everybody in an organization. But when you have trouble, you call somebody and what you call customer service. How about we just say we'll call customer support? Or how about a better name for them is, uh, customer retention, because if they do a great job, you're gonna love them and want to come back because of the great job they do. But Anyway, I digress. Experience is all interactions you have with the company, and that's the people in the company, the website, the experience you have receiving the product, opening and opening a product, the you know, if you go to a grocery store, the you know just getting into the store, how it looks pushing a card around, as a card to have a squeaky wheel, or is it? You know, all of these are part of the experience. When you go and receive something really cool like an iphone and you open the box, that's an experience, right. But mixed into that experience or a bunch of interactions that you have with the people of the company and even if you're dealing on a website, and that website, that digital experience, is is taking place of an actual person saying can I help you? Can I help you find your items? Uh, can I now check you out and get you to pay me for it? So all of that, to me is part of this service to the company offers. So Um years ago there was an organization and the Malcolm Baldridge Award for excellence. And what was really fascinating these companies. By the way, this was like the new today's version would be jd power type of awards. But back then all these companies in different categories signed up, big small, and they all answered the same questions, an extensive questionnaire that took days to complete. About sixties some odd percent of those questions was based on the experience related people to people. The rest of it was quality of the product and everything else. So that's experience. Experience is much bigger, but service is such a big part of that. Yeah, quick follow up there and then we're going to dive into I'll be back. Do you see customer experience, because I know you consult companies, large and small, fortune one hundred, you know, and and true SMB s and everything in between. Um, in your observation or experience or recommendation or preference, do you like customer experience to be similar to customer service and that it's a philosophy or an ethos or a cultural quality, or do you like seeing ahead of a small team and that you liked seeing an organizationally titled and structured? Right. So the first I I want everybody to think of this as a culture. I want everybody to understand how they fit into either the service experience that customers have or the actual experience. And give you an example. Somebody in the warehouse who never sees a customer may pack a product and when the customer receives it, they open the box and it's like, you know, the paper land there. It wasn't packed well, the products obviously bounced around all the way to their doorstep and it's broken. Okay, well, that's a pretty bad experience and it's due to the warehouse employee not taking the time to do it right. Hence their lack of effort created a bad experience, which then turns into a service experience when the customer has to call complain and get it rectified. And, by the way, anything that creates friction, and you know I'm big into talking about eliminating friction and creating convenient experiences, means you should do everything you can to avoid...

...the customer having now this is I wrote a book called I'll be back, and then, at the same time, I'm gonna get ready to tell you you don't want the customer to come back, provided the reason they're coming back is for a problem. Okay, you want them to come back because they love doing business with you, not because you're trying to fix the problem. But nobody is perfect and there are going to be problems, and what you want your your customers to say is that even when there's a problem, I know they can count on me. That's why I always love doing business with them, because I can count on them. That's important to have that confidence. so Um everybody behind the scenes who may have no interaction at all with a customer is either supporting an internal customer, and that is also part of customer service, or they're doing something internally that's going to impact the experience, which is all part of the experience. Nobody is left out of this equation. I can go into the company, the biggest company in the world, and I can break down the different journeys that customers have and at some point every single department will touch the customer in some way, either through experience or service. Even the engineer that's designing the rubber o ring for the whatever piece of machinery. They know if they don't make it right, the customers call them back with the problem. So I'm assuming, you know, a couple of weeks before we launch human centered communication, I'll be back how to get customers to come back again and again. Uh is going to be launched several weeks prior, I'm assuming. Obviously C X plays a major role, customer Centricity, I would guess employee centricity as well, and just overall human centricity. What was the spark, uh, that made you want to write this book? You have so many books out already. What was the spark for this one? I know this spark. When I write a new book, it's because I feel I have enough material to do it, and that comes through the ongoing writing of all the articles I write. I write for four every week. I write my own new, uh, you know, column every week that I sent out to my newsletter list as well. I was posted on the blog. I reade a few other articles throughout the week and at a certain point in time ago. Well, I've written a lot of new material that I haven't ever published before in Book Format. So that's one way it starts. But I also thought, especially as I was playing in the pandemic world, where I had a little bit of time to really understand what customers were experiencing. Um, it's time to really write a book about getting customers to come back, because right now there's a lot of companies that are working to getting their customers to come back to the way business was as usual. Um. So there's not really much reference in the book to the pandemic, but at any time that there is a downturn, whether it be a pandemic, whether it be economic, like here in the US. Two Thousand and eight and nine we had the recession, two thousand and one we had nine eleven. These downturns were opportunities to win customers forever if you did it right. But the whole concept of I'll be back, I just don't know where it came to. Like one night I woke up and said that's the title of the book how to get customers to come back again and again. Then I start writing it and I start realizing there was a very famous actor in a very famous movie that used this line I'll be back. Now the book really didn't have anything to do with it up until that moment when the spark went off. I go I'm writing a lot about terminating. You know, why would a customer terminate the relationship with you? So, by the way, for those that haven't figured it out, I'll be back. Arnold Schwarzerer, the Terminator who used the line I'll be back in a number of movies. The first one in the terminator when he said to the police officer sitting behind the desk, I'll be back, came back and blew up the whole police station and then the next movie he was the good, good guy fighting the bad guy and he said, I don't remember who he said I'll be back, but he used it and I think eight movies, about sixteen, Fifteen or sixteen times, different meetings, somewhere funny, somewhere, you know, serious, to create that tension and and it was. It was great. So, uh, that's where it came from, uh,...

...you know, from the idea. That's where I started to think of. How about the Arnie? Let's give everybody who does a great job and Arnie. It's like the award, and I named it after the man himself, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and whether he knows it or not, um, but if you do a great job, you get customers to come back, you get the Arnie. And again, didn't start out to be a book that tied into that, but sure enough, I mean even as you if you look at the font on the cover, that is actually a font that you can get and it's called the I'll be back, and it's called the Terminator Font, Terminator Font, and that's what it is. It looks very similar to what was in the movie back and I guess the nineties. Anyway, that's the impetus of that, the spark that started at all nice. Now I don't know if Arnold Schwarzenegger listens to this podcast. If he does, or if you do, no matter who you are, email me Ethan at bomb bomb dot com or hit me up on Linkedin. Ethan view, let me know how you like the show and if you are Arnold Schwarzenegger, let me know so I can share that with chef hi could Um. So obviously we're talking about loyalty, uh, and I would love for you just to do a pass on the core components of loyalty and maybe a tip associated with a couple of them. Obviously, loyalty is emotional in nature. I think people can tend to forget that when they're getting into the mechanics of what we're gonna do and how we're going to deliver, etcetera, etcetera. You've already referenced it once in in this podcast already, but I think a lot of the emotional component is probably delivered in human to human interactions. Um, perhaps is the biggest influence, but we can also emotionally affect customers other ways. Breakdown loyalty talk about the key components and maybe give a tip around them, if you can sure. First let's start with the big tip, and it's the breakdown, and that is customer loyalty is not about a lifetime. People think it is. People that loyalty means are with US forever or they've been with US forever. If you want to break it down, let's break it down in smaller parts. How about this? Let's talk about this time. What am I doing? This is the question to ask yourself. What am I doing right now with this customer to make sure that the next time they're going to come back to me instead of the competitor? And that's it. You're focusing on this time and you could be in any situation, especially if you're in a contentious situation. Ask Yourself, boy, am I handling this in such a way that's going to get the customer to come back? If you're just in the process of selling somebody, am I doing it with such grace and appreciation that the customers gonna say, I love doing business with this person, I can't wait to come back. Focus on the next time every time. So that's how I break down loyalty. Now let's talk about loyalty as a concept, because this is really important. We talked about this in the book at great length. There is a difference between repeat business and loyal business, or repeat customers and loyal customers. What's the difference? Well, it's sometimes subtle, because you think you have loyal business when you see customers coming back again and again and again, but what you actually have is repeat business. Now, no doubt I love repeat business and you should too. Everybody should love it and this is what you should go for. But turning it into loyalty means there's some emotional connection and it could be that customers saying I love that person who always takes care of me. I love doing business with them, and I mentioned this before, because they always take care of me when there's a problem. You know, even when there's a problem, I know I can count on them. But if you look at repeat business, what are the reasons customers come back beyond the emotional connection? And this is also good, because a lot of people create these loyalty programs that are really marketing programs. Get customers come back, like if I give you a punch card, I own a restaurant and give you a punch card punch this every time you come in the six meals free. You know that kind of thing. Well, I'm giving you an incentive to come back that's tied to me doing something very nice. You know you and I are friends. If I've got to say hey, if we go together, you know I want to go to dinner with you next Tuesday night, I promise I'll buy. Will that gets you go out with me? What does that mean? You're really...

...my friend. If I didn't offer to buy, would you still go with me? I think you. Hopefully you guys would. But but that's kind of like taking it to that more personal level. So keep that in mind. Loyalty programs are marketing programs, frequent fire you know, programs where you get points and perks like free upgrades. If they took away that, if all of the airlines took away all of those perks, which airline would you still want to fly on over all the others? Okay, so that's the difference. No, no problem with that. By the way, understand that a reason somebody might go to your store instead of a different one might be because you're closer to their home. But if somebody moved in closer than you would you lose that business. So I'm just giving you some examples of why you should start thinking about your repeat customers and understand why they're coming back versus just, you know, uh, thinking that they're loyal. Loyal is created to loyalty is created to an emotional connection at some level. Yeah, really good, and in the first portion of your response there I just want to reiterate for listeners, you're essentially CHEP calling for being present, which I think is so important. It's key, by the way, to to being human centered in your approach to communication. We have presence, being present, actively listening, actively engaging. Coming with intent was also part of your response, like what am I doing in this moment? What am I doing with this person? What am I doing in this interaction? So, so important. I think if more of US got out of default mode and we're more intentional, more focused on the other person and and operated present in the moment, that that customer service and customer experience across the port will be much, much higher. Yeah, that and I think I love the way you said that. I'm actually gonna listen to that, I'm going to transcribe it, I'm gonna put it into my own words, and that's the best example of how this thing works. This is why I love talking to you, Ethan. By the way, Steve and Ethan are brilliant. If you haven't figured this out, give us some loyalty killers. What are some big mistakes? So actually, in one of my books a while back, I came up with the idea of the loyalty killer. Like you know, things that you say that aggravate the customer, and it started out with just phrases like we can't do it, it's our policy. Well, my policy is to not do business with people that say it's our policy. You know, I remember walking into a bank and I needed something notarized and they said, Oh, we're really sorry, but that person went on vacation won't be back for a week and a half. It's like really, this is why I do business with you. You can't help me. But you know, here's the concept terminating the business. This is where the chapter, and I'm looking at its chapter fourteen, titled Your Terminated. Um, they used to be your customer, but now ten likely reasons, and I'll just give you a few of them. Um, this is the likely reasons your customer would terminate you. And the number one reason is apathy. You know, you just you know. I didn't care about the customer and they felt it. And number two is rudeness. Now I just did my achieving customer amazement study where we surveyed over a thousand consumers and we asked them the top reasons why they wouldn't want to come back and do business with somebody. And guess what? Number one was rudeness, or Actually Apathy First, then rudeness, and then it came to knowledgeable people not being able to help. And there were other things, other areas like I couldn't find how to connect with customer service when I needed them, or couldn't connect with the company. But number one apathy, number two, rudeness. Number three, contact information not easily available. UH, number four, couldn't connect with Oh, this is a good one. Couldn't connect with the channel that they wanted to communicate with you on. Now, in today's world, people don't just pick up the phone and call. They can call, they can email, they can text, they can go to an...

APP, they can go on any what about half a dozen social media channels and how many other ways they have to connect with you wherever your customers truly are. That's where you need to be, and I'm not saying you need to connect on every single channel that's out there, but there need to be the options that are available to the majority of customers that you're looking for and understand, and I'm looking for the status as I speak. There is a great chart that shows what the workforce looks like today and what's going to look like ten years from now. And if you're not focused on millennials and Gen z you are missing the majority of your buying customers. Unless you sell retirement homes, then you're looking at boomers right now. What's the what's the drive? If if apathy is number one, what's the main driver of apathy? What are the mistakes that that companies are making that are making employees apathetic? Great Question. So the short answer to that is, uh, the right hiring. Next would be hiring with the right train and on onboarding and training that gets them to where they need to be. Because here's the thing. I can hire the most technically skilled people in the world, but if I don't have the right personality to my company, then I'm gonna be missing an opportunity with my customer. As well as eroding the culture inside my organization. Also throw one other piece out there that you might not even be able to blame it on employees if the leadership hasn't clearly defined what that service experience is supposed to be. I call it the I I call them Mantras, their short, one sentence or less phrases that really truly crystal clear define what you want customers to experience. And, by the way, it could be part of your vision and mission statement, but it shouldn't. It usually isn't the vision of mission statement. It's oftentime separate example, Ritz Carlton, nine words Long, were ladies and Gentlemen, Serving Ladies and gentlemen. You come to work, you learn that right away and they train you to it. And, by the way, you could be the nicest person in the world, hospitality minded and be able to do whatever it is you're supposed to do. Work Behind the desk, make change, check people in and out, be a housekeeper, may whatever. But if you haven't been taught really what that vision is, you can't you can't be focused on it. So that's a great example. And when you come to work there, they start training you. There's twenty four gold standards and then there's a number of other initiatives behind it that I would call the non negotiables that make that mantra come to life. So that's another problem. Um I interviewed for one of my books. At the time he was the worldwide senior vice president of customer experience for American Express and they have call centers, support centers all over the world. Interestingly, part of his compensation was based on the success of those front liners. Part of the compensation of managers and supervisors are based on their people doing a good job. So they're gonna do everything they can to get the right people in their trained them properly and make sure it happens. Now, the reason I bring this up is because, and asking him about how you get the right people. This is what and by the way, his name is Jim Bush. This is what he told me. He said, chef uh, if you give me a choice of hiring somebody that's had ten years of Support Center experience, they know how to, you know, manage all the computer screens and move from one program to the next and flip from one screen to the next, that's great, but if the other person has not had any of that experience. Yet they worked in a hotel for the last five years, maybe at the front desk, maybe the banquet server, whatever. I'm going to take the person with the hospitality mentality because I can train them to the skills. Now that's around about saying way of saying hire the attitude, train the skill, which is something we've heard of, but this is where it really the rubber hits the road and it comes to life. There was a medical system hospital, a group of hospitals, uh, and they had a nursing shortage and actually there were enough nurses for them to hire, but...

...not enough nurses with the right personality for them to hire, and they were willing to shut down a small portion of their hospital because they couldn't fill the hospital with the right personality. Now that's putting your money where your mouth is. They were afraid that if the wrong personality was there, treated the customer, was the patient and their family members, the wrong way, they were going to erode everything that brand was working to achieve. Such a powerful example of internal culture employee experience. You talked quite a bit about training. Um Training is it's not irrelevant, but it like it's not going to make as big as impact if we as we would like, if we don't get the right people in the door, it kind of goes back to where we were on intent. Like what is your mindset going into these transactions? Um, were these instances or these moments? Is it one of hospitality, where I want you to feel welcome and comfortable and competent? You know, the so much, so much good stuff there, UM, which so this is a little bit of a transition and I'll ask it one way, Steve Alaska another. But you know, just to this training concept, I mean at some level, with through your consulting, through your speaking, through your workshops, through your teaching, through your entertaining. By the way, if you have not seen a chef hike in presentation, it will move you in some ways, including putting a smile on your face. Um. And ultimately it's about transforming people, um, at some level. And so I was wondering if you could share a couple of insights, because you're expert at this. What are you focusing on as you're putting together or even delivering a message in order to connect with, engage and transform somebody to hopefully make a difference in their lives or their work or their attitude, like we're a couple of key ideas that that you've picked up over the years. Wow, thank you for asking because it kind of talks to my process in the way. I think before I ever walk on stage. One of the questions I asked my clients, and this is what I called the magic question, and I'll tell you why, because it really puts them into the future and makes them think, what would it take for this to be considered a success? And that's almost the exact phraseology. I simply ask, if we were to get together a year from now, what would have to happen for you to feel that this was a successful program it could be the speech that I'm doing, it could be our training programs at some of our trainers deliver Um, but they will define success for me this, by the way, it's not an easy question. I may not even get the answer at that moment, but I may ask them to come back and give it to me because if we were to move forward, I have to know what that looks like in order to achieve the end goal, which is success. Right. So that's a big question. The other questions are, if you could just choose three things you absolutely want this audience to remember, and this also helps to find the success criteria. What would that be? And they'll they'll be very specific. Once in a while I get somebody that just writes down quick answers. By the way, we start with a pre programmed questionnaire. If it's not written, I will get on the phone, just like or a zoom call or whatever it is, just like we're doing here, and I will look at each other or talk to each other about what that criteria is. I have to have that answer because that's how I'm going to design the speech. I know it could go into a very generic speech and you know what, even if I did something generic, it's probably pretty good. But why not make it exactly what that client wants? So is that the question you're asking? Um, you know, because I want to make sure I give the audience what they need. By the way, as a speaker, I recognize I want to get the laughter, I want the applause. I would love a standing ovation if the audience would give it to me. But getting the standing ovation doesn't mean I made my client happy. What makes my client happy is when the information that they want me to impart that's tied to my expertise, is delivered in such a way that's going to give people to act and eventually they do. How do you make sure the learning? So you take a company like like Bom bomb, and we have tens of thousands of customers and we are trying...

...to make our customers change their habits and change what they do on a day to day basis. How do you make the make sure the learning is actually sticking with them, our customers, and it creates real change, you know, for them. So one of the things that you do so well is customer success, and let me share with those that might not be familiar with the term. Essentially, customer success is what you're doing to get your customer to be successful with your product and want to use your product and want to, you know, in your case, your subscription model where people pay month to month when it keeps subscribing to your product. For many companies it's just what am I doing to make sure they come back, and you're doing that. You're a video company. You're doing it through video and Steve, I know how many times have you and Ethan, both of you, how many times I'll be seeing you and your colleagues in my inbox telling me this week we're going to teach you to do this, you know and so, and you're doing it through video, through content programs, webinars, if you will. But I hit that three syllable word Webinar by the third syllable. I'm almost sleeping. It's so much better than that. Okay, so, but that's part of what good companies are doing, is they're creating a program so that, once the customer buys, they are taught how to best use the product and be successful with the product or service. It may be as simple if, and, like you say, I sell close in a store. I mean, what can I do to make sure they're successful? You know? Well, you can afterwards, send a thank you with a short video with tips on how to care for your clothes. You know, don't put it in the dryer. It's gonna fall apart. You knew that when you bought it. I'm reminding you again now. You know. So, uh, that misery if not managed well. But it's a moment of magic when you remind them about something good. You know, engage with the community, Um, and you do that so well. So engagement doesn't mean I'm gonna send you messages that are all about marketing. You guys can answer this more than I can. I get the feeling that probably eight of what you send me is not about selling me, it's about making me better with what you do. Is that an accurate statement or is it even maybe even closer to yeah, for you, for sure, we want to be helping and and not selling. And helping is helping you accomplish your goals and what you need to do. But when you're sending all these messages to me, I've already bought. I don't need to buy. I mean what are you gonna Upgrade me to it? I mean, I don't need a second subscription just for me. But you're trying to make me more successful. You want me to use your product, you want me to love your product, you want me to be so connected to that product that you'd have to pry it away from me on my deathbed. No, I just want to observe. I mean guidance is one of of our you know, it's not a stated core value of ours, but internally with Steve and me and the rest of the team that that Steve Leads for the organization, I mean this, this guidance piece of being, of service and values really really important to us. And ultimately, what we're trying to do too, you know, beyond selling, is make this normal. Like I want to stop teaching people the video use cases because they're observed all the time, because, you know, a quarter of the emails that they're getting have videos in them or a third of the linkedin messages that they get have videos in them, because it's an appropriate medium for that message in the experience they're trying to create. Like we want to normalize this practice. As a consequence, will probably sell some accounts, but we think business in life cannon should be a lot more personal and human, even when we're restricted to these digital channels. And so, yeah, we're trying to give you new ideas all the time. So let me respond to that comment with a concept that I even talked about, with my concept of convenience.

About two and a half years or so ago, I wrote a book titled The Convenience Revolution. By the way, there's a chapter on convenience and no friction in the new book which references some of that but makes the point we're trying to eliminate that when something like video came out and bomb bomb video. When I first subscribe, which was at least six seven years ago, I was I think I came in in your first year of business. Maybe somewhere close to that, maybe not, but I've been around a while. I lose track. Last year it's like I lost track of a whole year. It's like it didn't even it seemed to vanish. But Anyway, I digress. Up your concept of video emails was what I would consider a breakthrough thought process. You know, there were some other competitors out there, but it was breakthrough thinking to create a product that's so easily sent email without bogging down the system and having huge files to open on the other end. Uh so that was breakthrough thinking. Then it became a trend, right, would you say? You know, people are starting to trend up, and now I think this is where you want to go with it. It isn't happening now, but I think this is where you ultimately want to be. It's an expectation. Once it becomes an expectation, it becomes table stakes. It means your education for your customer isn't about selling them bom bomb video. It's about now using bomb bomb to be even better than what others are doing so. Let's talk about convenience as an example. Prior to the pandemic, if I wanted to order food to be delivered, there are plenty of restaurants around my area that we're happy to deliver that food for me at no charge. Okay, then, guess what happened? Pandemic hit and everybody is starting to try to create this level of convenience. Will deliver your groceries where? A car dealership will bring the car to you to test dride. You don't even have to come to the dealership. I sell clothes. Come on or go online, take a picture of a few things you like. We know your size, you've been before. We'll bring it to you. You know. So delivery all of a sudden becomes a really big thing. But guess what comes with delivery? Now that it's kind of expected, people are willing to since it's no longer something to separate you. Let's charge for it, because everybody's doing it and everybody's going to charge for it. Becomes a premium service. So that's when you know the trend became an expectation, when people were willing to pay for this. Now, guess what a year ago when we did our a C A report. Uh, we asked the question would you be willing to pay what would you be willing to pay more for, etcetera, etcetera, and we got the basic stats at customers are willing to pay more for great service. The service includes convenience, it's if it includes delivery, they'd be willing to pay. Wow, before that they were getting it for free, but now it's part of the equation. But guess what, it's also expected that you're going to provide did, even if you are going to charge for it anyway. That's the key. It's breakthrough, trend expectation. If any follow up questions before we wind us down? All right. So, uh, you know, we're extremely grateful and happy that you're a part of of the next book that we have here, chep Um. Is there anyone or any particular topics for human centered communication? And actually, let's do let's do it for both books. Let's do it for I'll be back. What topic are you most excited for people to read about? And I'll be back. And then for human centered communication. You know you didn't get to read all the other chapters from the other guests. I read a lot. I read quite a bit. Which one, which one, out of the other chapters? Are you really excited for people to get a hold of? Two for both? Wow, a tied from the chapter that I was involved in. This is one of the reasons why video is a standout. Um, UH, technology, if you will, is your first chapter.

You know, digital pollution, we're getting emails, bombarded with messages. What makes somebody stand out? That personal message. Uh, that just makes it real clear. Hey, I'm a real person doing business with you and I'm gonna treat you like we're doing business human to human. By the way, you may say I do business with the X Y Z company. You're really doing business with the people in the X Y Z company. So I really love that. And that's where that human centered communication and all that falls into it. Um, you know, Gosh, where do I start here? I mean there's the year of video. I think we're in the decade of video, not just the year of video. I think that in the late teens of this century we were starting to ramp up and I think we're hitting really a point where it's you're still in the early stage compared to where it's going to be, but I love that we're here in the year, or maybe now this decade, of video. Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm I'm glad you got to to rip through it. We'll get one of those advanced reader copies to you as soon as we get those in our hands. For folks who are listening, the year of video is the title of Chapter Thirteen, I believe, with Dan Tire of Hubspot. His conversation with Steve and me is already available here on the customer experience podcast. Lauren Bailey of factor eight and Girls Club, Matthew Sweezy of salesforce, a mutual friend of our. CHEF. Our conversation with Matthew is already released, coming soon to the customer experience podcast, video and sales experts Morgan J Ingram Mario Martinez Junior, Julie Hansen. It's a really cool series that we're doing. Uh. Thank you so much for being part of it, chef. Before we let you go, Steve's got a couple of questions that I asked you last time you were with us on on the customer experience podcast. We'll see how the answers change. Thank you. Mentioned someone that has had a positive impact on your life or a career. Wow, there's so many people. Um, one of my mentors was bud dietrich. Is that who I talked about before? And I had all right, yeah, I looked him up and what a what a cool story. I'm yeah, but is a he's passed away. He would be about a hundred about now. Um, he, when I first started my business, said to me, chef, you can spend all day writing your speech and practicing your speech, but you could do that nights and weekends if you would spend forty hours a week at marketing and selling yourself and save the rest of that, you know, work for you know time when you can't talk to people, you'll be successful. What he was saying is the job isn't doing the speech, it's getting the speech. And so many times people that we create created this great product. People would want to buy it, but the job isn't just to have the product, it's to sell the product right. And boy, you know the bomb bomb video and I here I am going to give you a little plug. The BOM bomb video program is a great resource. If I'd have had bomb bomb back in the nineteen eighties when I started, heck, there wasn't even the Internet back in the eighties. But boy, you know, have we come a long way. You know, we would have been so much further ahead of the game. Uh. And part two of this question. Give a head nod or some accolades to a company that is just smashing it with customer experience, something that you had a great experience with, perhaps recently, where you're like they are doing it right. Maybe I would add them into a book someday. Wow, well, I probably already have added them into a book. Uh, I don't know if I gave you this answer before, but you know I'm big fans. I've already mentioned the rich Carlton Um. Amazon is an amazing company at a number of different levels. Some people are you know, they're big and now they're kind of rebellious towards you know, some people are rebellious towards them just because they've been that successful and they are truly disruptors. But take a look at why and how they disrupted. Ace hardware another great one that learned to deal with the disruptors. Um I was...

...at once asked by a client, would you help us find an executive, a CEO at a company that's disrupted their their industry. I said I think it would be more interesting to find the CEO of the company that that experienced disruption and overcame it, which is what ace hardware has done, Um, you know. So those are some companies that I admire and if you want all the reasons, I can start going and listing them all. But is that awesome? Is that the answer? Good? Absolutely. Yeah. It also reminds me, like your take on an ace hardware there reminds me a little bit about best buy, who, Um, you know, could have gone the way of circuit city, but found a way to like to to compete against a lot of disruption. So this has been fantastic. Chef, thank you so much. Thank you again for spending time with us. I think we spent over ninety minutes together talking in advance of of writing the chapter that you're featured in in human centered communication. Thanks for breaking down a little bit of H I'll be back with us here in this conversation for folks who enjoyed this and they want to follow up. Um, you obviously want to send him to hike in DOT COM, you've already mentioned. I'LL BE BACK BOOK DOT COM, DOT COM, or it'll be back book dot Com. Uh, you know, because the story apostrophe. Is there any place else you can send people to follow up, connect, learn more, etcetera? Sure, I mean, by the way, when you're there, please. I promise you know spam. You'RE gonna get a great article. If you sign up from a newsletter. If you go to my youtube video channel, it's CHEF TV DOT COM. CHEF TV. I also have a TV show called be amazing or go home. That's on Amazon prime and Apple TV and Roku, etcetera, etcetera, and you can go there. OR BE AMAZING DOT TV will get you some of the episodes we've we've made them available on on our website. So be amazing DOT TV awesome. I will round those links up. If you did not write those down a there's a thirty second or sixty second back button. You can use that. Or you can also always visit bombomb dot com slash podcast. Video highlights, short write ups, links to the some of the things we talk about and, of course, full embedded audio. That's searchable too. That's at Bombom DOT com slash podcast. Yep, I can thank you so much. Great to be your man. Thank you, guys. You guys are as, I like to say, amazing. In the future will be virtually selling and serving more often, but the channels we're trying to connect and communicate through our noisy and polluted and our faceless digital communication is both visually and emotionally impoverished. So how do we stand out? How do we truly connect? How do we make people feel like people and not like numbers? Get answers to these questions and more from more than a dozen experts, including a marketing futurist from salesforce, the first salesperson at Hubspot, two co founders of Ven Gresso and an emotional intelligence x with seven US patents in the analysis of facial coding data by the Wall Street Journal Bestseller Human Centered Communication, a business case against digital pollution. Learn more about human centered communication at BOM BOMB DOT COM slash book. That's BOM BOM DOT com slash book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit bomb bomb dot com. Slash podcast.

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