The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 week ago

229. Factoring Human Emotions Into Data-Informed Decisions w/ Vaishali Dialani

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

CX isn’t just a feel-good function - even if feelings are its foundation. We invest in customer experience to improve business outcomes. This includes lowering the cost of acquisition, improving activation and engagement, increasing retention and expansion and more.

In short: we invest in CX to grow revenue.

This episode's guest is Vaishali Dialani, Customer Experience Analyst at Konabos Consulting. She is a Customer Experience Analyst that helps increase said revenue by working at the intersection of CX professional and business analyst. The takes a cross functional approach to CX because it applies to multiple teams in her company and avoids viewing CX as a standalone function.

This episode covers:

  • How should you install a CX function if there isn’t already one in place?
  • What is an effective way to collect qualitative customer feedback?
  • How do we mix human emotions into the data mix?
  • What are a few themes or trends in customer experience right now?
  • What are some companies that are effectively utilizing customer personalization? 

More information about Vaishali and today’s topics:

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes, and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the Customer Experience Podcast. Here's your host, Ethan butte c X isn't just a feel good function, even if feelings are its foundation, We invest in customer experience to improve business outcomes, to lower the cost of acquisition, to improve activation and engagement, to increase retention and expansion. In short, we invest in c X to grow revenue. Today's guest is a customer experience analyst who helps make that happen by operating at the intersection of c X professional and business analyst. She's also held titles like Head of Customer Experience and Head of Communication and Customer Engagement. So we're talking c X in practice today, gathering customer requirements, embedding c X and organizational culture while working cross functionally, and improving outcomes by making data informed business cases. By Shalli Diolani. Welcome to the Customer Experience Podcast. Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. And that's a lovely introduction. I'm super thrilled for our conversation today. Yeah, me too. I love the work that you're doing. We've talked about it a little bit, so I'm excited to dive deeper into and share with other people. But before we get into that, we're going to start where we always start, which is a customer experience. When I say that to you, by Shalli, what does it mean? I think it's an intangible feeling with tangible results. So for me, I look at it as a perspective of integrating emotions, human emotions and humanizing the brand for the customer at that level to give them the better experience as possible. I love it. What is it humanize the brand? You know, it's one of those things that you read in a LinkedIn poster. Here someone say it's like a drive by comment. Give me a little bit more on what it means to you to humanize a brand. For me, it speaking the same language as the customer, not as the I T guy or a product manager or the finance guy. So for me, it's about taking the language and the communication style of the customer kind of embedding that into the business. Um rather than the other way down to looking at it. It's an outside in approach rather than an inside out approach. I love it. It's so useful. I think about what you just shared that I've thought about a lot from a marketing perspective, you know, when you're trying to decide how to write an email sequence, or how to write a landing page, or how to create anything that someone's going to interact with, that idea of not just understanding them, but understanding how they express themselves, the language that they use, etcetera. But I like that you broadened it out to I mean, anything that we're working on in order to connect with or serve a customer could be probably improved that way. Yeah, hundred percent. I think we don't emphasize enough on customer needs. And as much as you know, today's see X has become the talk of the town that everyone wants to be a part of, like the c X expert. But and c X is defined and perceived in so many ways. It really is so simple that everyone really complicates the whole thing. Tell me a little bit about that. It's funny, like when I was you know, sometimes I feel like a c X pretender even though I've hosted, I think this would be like episode two D thirty or something like that, UM, because I am a little bit from the outside and I did come to the party three or three and a half years ago, like a lot of the folks that have jumped on lately, and I feel like I'm I'm oversimplifying it. But you say we're over complicating it. To talk a little bit about that, like, what does it mean to over complicate customer experience? How simple can it really be?...

So I think when I talk about over complicating it UM is because everyone talks about c X and the zillian amount of you know, frameworks, models, UM and other kind of requirements people are trying to gather. The terminology used is really overcomplicated. It's very simple. If we know, as voice of customer initiative, there might be only three or four ways that you can really use particular models and get that out, and then those models can be very dynamically based on different client needs and customer needs. But that does not mean you need to get in under the ten models and try to just over complicate the same thing. Already write the same thing in just different languages and different terminology. Is just to get additional work. Um So, I think it's very It's actually very simple, but people just overcomplicated. We are trying to make people's lives easier and that means and only then be able to offer and customer experiences. But if you're not really if your own process as a c X professional is not simple, how are you going to get the customer needs right and get and make the experiences better for them? I find that very encouraging. Um So, you recently joined an organization called Canobos. Tell me a little bit about what what you all do? You know, what types of people are you serving and what types of problems are you tackling for them? Oh? Yeah, it's a very interesting space to be a recently transition from a fintech company with a consulting film and just when you fail, you know it all. You're carrying the same core values and principles of c X, but you're implementing it in a whole different place because with a um with the consulting firm, the opportunity to grow allows you to explore and implement c X strategies across different domains such as e commerce, education, fintech, and so many more, which is just amazing because you just see you then kind of realize even more than implementing it in different domains, keep taking the same strategy across but just having a dynamic feature to it. It's pretty much the code is just simple customer experiences. And so what we do at Cornimbos is really make people's life simple UM by rethinking the entire strategy from a business perspective to a customer experience focused perspective of understanding who the person nas are, what they need, UM, what are the kinds of tools and vendors they're using, what they need to really rethink brand strategies. It's an overall were consulting from where we work with UM a lot of clients and kind of facilitate that I technically and customers strategy requirements to be able to give them their their customers again the best journeys ever awesome. Where does a you customer experience analyst plug into that process? Like when you get like, let's let's just make up a scenario. I know that you're just getting into it, but UM, new clients, the problems default UH like laid out in made clear they've committed to move forward you're starting an engagement, when does a customer experience analysts get involved in what does that work look like? So a customer experience and this really gets involved at the start as soon as the sale or has been made. So it's more about the client has agreed to get on board with us, and that's when I cackin. It's not that I really lay out in scope like a customer service professional really lays out in scopes that scope of work and says the client my thing, that's only an ex problem when as and when you start digatting period, I actually wait, excess cost because of why and why was caused? BECAUSEL said so, I think we need to fix that more about fascinating conversations with clients, understanding them and their business is...

...from a consultant on and this point of view, and then scoping it out and sharing it with my team to be able to say, right, I think now it's time to get the solution architect on board or the solution producer on board, because now conversations are kind of moving forward. We understand that who the personas are, what their segment is, what kind of journey mapping are they're looking at? You? Then create as is and to remodels, and then you involve you know, the other people and stakeholders in the process. Super talking a little bit about the business analysts side here, I mean is is it is it as simple as making data informed decisions through the lens of business outcomes. In particular, UM talk about business analysts as an element of your work compared to something like more broadly data analysts or similar. So, I think a data analyst is definitely very very different and the business and is quite focused on the requirements. Now, what's different from a business analyst, you point is that it looks at a business holistically, from I T requirements to business requirements to customer needs to x y Z and operational problems. It gives a entire business view, which you know, we as a consultant agency then take and say, right, we have decoded the entire department from department department, decoded the whole business, and now we've identified operationally there's an x y z, I T, there is an x y Z, and there is customers a complete x YZ that no one is even focused on. So we take all of these findings and that findings in scope of work. UM is so called in the business and this term is gathering requirements. And then you kind of take this whole thing, document it, um, categorize it, and then share it with the team and say, right, I need three or four people on board to kind of you know, who are subject matter experts such as the I T guy, the solution architiccult, the operational the guy, and then we sit down and brainstorm together on how it's like a university project. Right that you say, right now, let's see what we can do with it. And it's so exciting and it's awesome. If I had asked that question first, I would have not asked when you started to get engaged. It makes sense that you get engaged at the beginning of a process and a relationship. Let's let's talk a little bit about you, right, So the work sounds interesting. You have a marketing background. You were in partnerships, building and managing partnerships, probably with an eye to business results. Um, you managed CRM. Again, I already mentioned head of Communication and Customer Engagement, followed by head of Customer Experience. Talk a little bit about this, uh, this line from the beginning of your career to where you are now. And I'm asking in part on behalf of someone that is like you described, I am interested in customer experience. That does sound like an interesting and exciting area to get involved in. I am seeing and hearing more about customer experience, but I don't even know where to start. I want to give some encouragement or or specific insights or tips, perhaps to someone who is managing partnerships or someone who is working in CRM or you know, customer data or similar. UM talk a little bit about your journey, like how did that go for you? Is it um? How intentional were you about it? And how did maybe in hindsight, how did each step into the next? I love the question. I think the transition was never planned and didn't kind of think that I would land up, but I am, and this would be my journey the way I decided. So I joined now Money back when I moved from the UK after doing my post graduation after my m b A and UM while I was being rehired by them, I already knew the customer based really well in my research skills are very strong, so when I got on board, I knew that I had a cold passion for customers. That's what I knew, and I knew that. Over the last three years that I'm involved with them, I have done from operations, I've been a part of different segments and different departments. That has allowed me to really be very cross functional. And when you're working in a startup, I think that's the beauty your a startup, right, You gather so...

...much, you learn so much. Not one day is similar to the other. Even if you're doing you know, customer communications, you need to understand if the I D problem is fixed so you can communicate back or if a financial revenue as like X y Z that you always have to communicate internally to be able to communicate externally. Um. And when I started doing focusing on customer engage, when it was more like, right, if I want to run a promotion home, learn need to inform internally what is hard does that look like for the customer in the app? And then we've worked with a very closely worked as a UX Research or with the Idea where we rebranded the entire app and a lot went on like understanding who the customers are, what their needs were, what their requirements were with their researchers. So I feel even as a business as as a c X analyst, you know, you call it requirements, but actually it's research. So in the c X what you would call it research. So I feel again that's what I'm trying to say. They're not different, They're just used under different umbrellas, and that's why they feel they're different. Maybe the documentation is likely more text version in a as I c X, I'm list roll, but as a head of customers please, I was designing more journey mapping more. So I think that pretty much the same, but the communication still stays the core. And I think after you know, two years, beget that money, I realized like I'm missing something. You know, you feel like I went through midlife crice. I'm gonna been a tost you for five years? What's my niche? You know? What am I doing? And so I went through this whole self awareness and self RESPROPEX perspective. But I was like, okay, let me start. Let me list out everything that I've done and then kind of find a pattern to it. And then when I say identifying a pattern to it, I was like, wait, this makes sense. So everything was a core to the customer and then I was like to research has been my domain data has been my domain, X y z that have been my domain. And then I started researching because luckily, thank god, I was good at it, and I was like, what am I doing? What am I doing? And then I came across customer experience and I'm like that this is what I've been doing, so I knew it seems very long. So it wasn't something that that was kind of like organic. It was. It was a combination of the two. Um. But I think definitely as a tip that I would and then I got certified as a cc XP professional. So as a tip that anyone entering, you know and being like who who have a similar background like me, I want to dive into customer experience, I think definitely be very proactive and mindful. It's very important to get you know, carried away in our day to day lives and kind of not realize where we are and what we are doing. UM, So we'd be very very conscious and mindful at every step about I'm doing. This is just making sense, what's my next move, what's my next career transition? So that would definitely be one second, be open to every opportunity because you don't know what's that going to take you. Like I started as a research or five years back, I didn't even know the world research. I just all supposed to google everything, so you know, I think, and then you can dive into different aspects of research. And obviously my MBAs skills can I read really helped me through it and also my primary skills. So I think a lot has to do with being being able to understand what your pat is and then if you really feel that's your strong connection, you get certified into it because then you kind of feel recognized for what you do and have strong belief that you are right. I think we all are. We lack confidence. We feel there's so many out there. What is one extra going to be? You know what? What is one ext I'm going to make a difference. But I think everyone and and the best thing I love about c X community is so close knit. I have literally connected with over a hundred c X professionals or more official um and I've chatted personally with them to understand that what they're doing is what I like and everyone has such a unique story to tell them. Then I realized that why am I being scared about and what am I being scared out? Like everyone has a different journey. In my...

...journey is very different, and I have to own what I do and what my experiences are. Maybe it's not. Somebody else is and somebody else this might be different. So you can't compare one journey to the other, but you definitely have to have faith in yours and really takes intentional steps towards growing that so good, so much good stuff in there. Okay for starters, I guess just a couple of things that I personally want to want to plus up. So my title chief evangelist is a little bit like customer experience analysts. There aren't everyone doesn't have one, and not everyone knows what it means. Um and I'll say the same thing. I joined the company that I'm at now. I joined when we had a few hundred customers and almost no revenue to where we are today, which is tens of thousands of customers and uh, you know, dozens of billions of dollars in revenue. In the early days were a lot different than today. And so this like joining a younger company. Like if someone listening is in a very large organization, they maybe feel pigeonholed in their doing. You know, a limited range of stuff over and over and over again, and they're just looking, can I jump into another pigeonhole inside this organization? Going to which is valid? It's perfectly valid if you enjoy what you're doing, no sweat on that. But um, joining a younger company you are forced to be exposed to a much wider range of activities. You get called into a wider variety of things. The problems are less well defined and less well understood. So this research component you have to do. Like I think about the work that I was doing here at bom bomb eight years ago compared to today, and I loved all of it, or else I wouldn't be here. But it was like to your point, joining a younger company you learn a lot more and you get a more holistic picture of how the business operates because the business needs you to know that, and the bigger the company yet because it really needs like everyone needs to have purpose, needs to know that the work that they're doing matters. And you might get some of that insight, but not in the same way. The other thing to m b A. I mean, I hear a lot of people beat it up, like, oh you know, it's a it's a waste of time and money. It's just a piece of paper. And I we won't go down that road because you've already plused it up, but I just want to plus it up again again. Its whole purpose isn't to make you UM an expert at anything in particulars to give you exposure to every seat at the table and pretty much any business do you want. You need to understand finance, you need to understand accounting, You need to understand operations. You need to understand sales. You need to understand marketing, you need to understand leadership principles, you need to learn how to read all the financial statements. Like you just get this exposure to a wide range of things that helps you no matter what your specialty turns out to be. The last thing I want to say is joining that the doing your c X certification awesome and what I have not done it yet. But what I really appreciate is, you know you heard a couple episodes of the podcast, this podcast you reached out to me. I saw your background is like, first of all, I just want to connect with everybody, like you said, and UM, because I wanted to know your journey, like how did you find the podcast, How did you get into c X, how do you think about it? And is there we were talking, I was like that we need to do this as a as a reporting conversation. So um, so this idea of reaching out to people, whether it is in c X or whatever else you're interested in doing, people want to say yes, People like to help, People like to connect with other people. People want to test their ideas and theories and perspective by talking with other people about them. People want to talk to you. At my point, so, um, really well done. There is there anything I said that you have to like go back on? No? I think I absolutely agree. You have to own your journey and a lot comes from that. If you feel nervous about what can't like you very well said. No. Money has grown and evolved, and you know, I'm so excited that I got a first movie advantaged because no one else can have a defined process. And when you're kind of work in such a space, the opportunity and the growth that you can you allow yourself to be exploded to really hunks you very highly and allow and offers you that...

...long steering you know, growing curve sleep road. So I truly believe that, take that chance if your heart believes in it, and you know, work for the people, because it is so important to work with right people. I cannot emphasize that enough. You know, even if they're working for a small company. But if you're not allowing you growth opportunities, or the people that you're working with do not trust and believe in you, it really it really affects your work right balance. It really also impacts on the c X culture the organization, and and you will never be able to imbed that in the in the culture because if you're not allowed to be grown, you can't really make any other difference there. So know that right place is very like in the right place is very very important for you, really good. I want to There's so many directions I want to go, so I try to keep them in order in my head so that we take them logically, so that someone could follow along with it, so that you don't have to try to guess with your by head. Let's go, let's just go where you write where you were right then, um, and I'll kind of formulate it into a question here. It's this you know, c X in the organizational culture, a lot of the people that I've talked to UM, you know who I've interacted on the podcast or because of the podcast in particular. Some of them have a formal c X function UM, or a c X consultant or or you know, advise outside like a third party that's helping them with it. Others don't, but they want to talk about UM again. I guess to go back to my question about UM you as a c X analyst and how should other think people think about the role? Go to like leadership, UM. Speak to a leader here. If you don't have c X installed, UM, how should you think about it? How should we go from? This? Is like an ethos or a cultural component of ours? We are truly customer centric. We ask good customer oriented questions, but we don't have a c X function. Why should we formalize that function? If we feel like maybe we're doing things pretty well and we're pretty customer centric, UM, how how should a company think about that? And perhaps how do we go down that road and make it a meaningful UM part of the operation. Yeah, very very very good question, and that's something I think many companies struggle with because they think they're doing this right. Initiatives for the customer UM and you know, of a customer focus. But I think a lot has to speak about the way they measure UM measure their business. If they are measuring their business based on you know, plody based on numbers, then I'm not sure if they right customers, you know, they're truly customer centric or focused UM. A lot has to do a combination of qualitative and quantitative KPI s. It has to do with what percent of customer service problems are you solving? You know, if you're if there are tickets being raised, how is that journey within the organization from a customer service whose agent being then kind of mapped into a board roomer decisions are being made. Is that customer really being heard or are we just making up something for the customer and saying, oh, we're actually the customers entered because X y Z will RELEASTI like KPI or like increase the revenue and things like that. So I think the first and the foremost thing that organizations to do is retrospect and reflect on their board board directors who kind of make the decisions and say what is our journeys and how we kind of using matrix UM and also who who is who's involved in that room? Is it only you know, the product manager and the data data I'm marketting analytics manager, and the tech guy and the financial person. Then I'm not sure if there's a room for a customer centric if it's truly a customer centric organization, right, where is the voice of the...

...customer? Who is the customer advocated while you're making those decisions in the room and trying to build a product or a journey map, which is not a great experience with the customer at all. So FO should definitely retrospect understand who is involved in the decisions and then which part and who's kind of facilitating the customer problems in that room. That would really start giving a right direction if if they had the right part as an organization. Really interesting. I've certainly talked a lot with a number of different people about balancing qualitative and quantitative data as we're trying to validate a theory or make a decision or that type of a thing. I've not heard about a qualitative KPI. I think that's really provocative and I hope people think a bit about that. Let's go deeper into I guess I don't know if I'm drawing a false line or not or a false you know, polarity, but like human centerate versus data driven, UM, make the business case that or or just speak in that direction towards you know, I think everyone's proud when they make a data informed decision. And typically that's a quantitative data informed decisions, probably insufficiently qualitative. But like in this context, how how should people be thinking about feelings and motivations? Um? How do you collect some of that? How do you process it? How do you weigh it in with the you know, product usage data that is just talied essentially tallied and trended perhaps or talied in average perhaps or whatever? Like how do we get feelings, motivations and human centricity into the mix? Like, how do we make it a meaningful part of the conversation in a meaningful part of the decision making process. I think it's someone who's listened to the show. Probably we all know that that matters, But I think, um, not everyone knows what to do with that. With that like that one, you know, how do we cap the feelings and motivations and human centricity in this mix? Consist? Very exciting? Yeah, it's a very exciting, UM question. Honestly, this is this is one question everyone. It's like mystery everyone's trying to solve and stay consistent at because I think everyone starts off really well but does not kind of maintain a momentum on it or a kind of really gets lost in the day to day operations of how the business runs and probably constantly fire fighting other problems, and then kind of and then the customer sort of becomes lost in the site. So I think, UM, back to your question, I think the first and the foremost thing is being able to use data. Now, when I say data, I'm not referring to um the KPI of the metrix that we measure, but really looking into say fire based data. Look at two convulsions, looking at different ident Now, the problem is that you don't know what you're looking for, but you know there's something there that you need to understand. That's the trick there. Okay, that's the trick there. You're just constantly looking at something and you say this seems really off. And that's when your analytical skills side of say, I've looked at you know, your bait. Like I said, you're you're breaking everything. You're not building things because they're built in a certain way. You're going to first break them all and look at each block or each component and say, okay, I'm gonna pick X and Z and Y and A because these who components look very complicated. And now you can look at these components from any department perspective. Now you can look at it from like fire Base, which is probably um you know why the app is being used, or you can look at it from a perspective of data analytics, or you can look at it from a perspective of you know, our customer service calls or customer service problems and ticketing. So you kind of pick those different elements or those different blocks from those particular categories and say this...

...is very interesting and as and when you start looking at it and you know the business really well, you'll really be able to identify and say, wait to hold on, I've seen an increased number in Firebase, and I've seen an increased number of calls. Let's connect these two and then try and understand what happened there. Why would customer calling and why did that event or anything get triggered or what happened there or did the app crash or things like that. So you can pick up two different components and then you actually speak to those customers you are ident so that's a piece of data out of it, and then you kind of identify what those customers will speak to them. So now you're using qualitative and integrated emotions and when you speak to those customers, try and understand how they felt, what they felt, why they felt, and at which situation they felt that. Right, So now you're allowing those customers to express them emotions, express their feeling. You, as a customer experience profession are now working towards integrating human emotions into data to event decisions to kind of provide a solution for them. Now, when you're using this method, it's very powerful. It's so powerful because now you've done this once and you know what emotions say. Maybe the user the customer felt scared, de motivated, and and you know and probably um sad. So these are three emotions we're going to take in place. Now we know if a situation as such happens where the app stops crashing or the website crashes, he feels sad, de motivated, and fearful. Now you can always integrate these emotions and make sure and then that's that's the kind of problems. You know that, Now how do you drive and provide solution for them? You speak to them, So what can we do next time? Your customers will give you answers to your problems, but you just have to hear with them. You constantly have to hear them. And once you've kind of done this whole process and now it is a it is a process. It's not something that they want to get an answer today like that. You know it's not. It's it's a process. So once you kind of do that piece and you get results, and you say, this is the challenge. This is a motivational driver. And next time, if a customer feels sad, let's do this and then kind of take the service and say we've tested hypothetically that if a customer is that we will give him an ex reward. And if he gets an ext reward, you kind of test an experiment that measurement and see what happens is he continuing to convert, if he's not continued to convert, If he's not continuing to convert, you do a research and say, oh, wait, he told me he was at and I tried this, so why this didn't end to work? And then you kind of having different ADA tests and what it's working with? What is so I think this is a core part of being consistent with this whole process is to embed it into the culture of the young ization and have everyone involved as a team. Because now you can't get I T based data and it's customer service based data randomly, right. You have to involve different people, so it has to be a buying from different stakeholders internally were willing to share that data data are not going to have that resistance towards their silos. So that's where you start working from a competitive workspace or collaborative workspace where you know you're in goal is to offer the best customer experience to the end users. So good and I think what I mean, what you did for me was was an answer in a different way. The question from earlier is you know, why should someone listening who doesn't maybe have a formal c X function um think about installing one, and you just did. It's how do we bring all of this disparate data together? How do we do it outside the bounds of a representative from each team is coming together where we you know, even in a healthy culture, we're still kind of protective of our space and protective of our dietation as an organization and all...

...these and as an individual, etcetera. And so it's it's you know, a c X person or a c X organization or a c X function, isn't uh you just use a generic term, like like an objective third party. I mean, you're equally motivated for the benefit of the customer and the benefit of the company, but you do come with this holistic approach where you know, you don't value anyone part of the organization anymore than another. You're really the mind and the voice and the motivation of the customer, even if the sales team is customer motivated, even if the product team is interviewing customers as they're putting you know, designing new things, etcetera. UM, it's this ability to see across the functions in a way that doesn't come with the burden or baggage of being inside any one of them. UM, and into the thing you can build trust in your role. To your point, I also heard that kind of implied in this you know, getting information from here, in information from here, like if you're a trusted resource that transcends anyone team in order to benefit all of the teams by benefiting the customer. It just seems like a smart thing for almost any organization to do. YEA, And I think that's the beauty of a c X. It doesn't have to fit in, it's born to stand out. Um and I feel a lot has to do with the personality. I'm a person who doesn't kind of fit in. I stand out in what I do. And once you start, it goes back to, you know, using your core values as an in personality and kind of implementing that and putting it in your work life. You're not different. I think many people have, you know, a particular personality when they at work versus a different personality and then the personal lives. But as a c professional maybe personally, I don't think i'm that. I am the same person. And when you are the same person, you allow emotions into business, you allow things into business. You allow your personal um personality characters to be a part of your work. And when you kind of do that, you actually subconsciously humanizing the brand is subconsciously humanizing the the business, and it is so beautiful It's so beautiful to be able to see that first time and actually get that validated from the customers and the way they respond or in the in the engagement they have, or the retention that you continue to grow as a business. I think it's just so beautiful, so good. Um. What are so you're talking with a variety You're talking with a variety of companies. Um. You know, in your role you're also active in engaging with people in the c X community. More broadly, what are a few themes are trends in customer experience right now? Is it personalization? Humanization? Is something that comes up? Um? You know, what are what are some of the themes that you're hearing? Like? What are what are people working on or ex I did it about or struggling with or looking forward to? Um? I think now everyone's quite interested in how do we measure c X. That's become the top of the town. Now it's no longer about journey mapping and ideation or reviewing stage. Everyone now is talking about, right, we're already doing this, how do we implement c X into this? But wait, hold on, abou, how do we measure how do we really show it to the world that this SAP works and this is currently I think the biggest challenge that everyone's trying to kind of overcome. UM So I think definitely that. And then and then based on different businesses, um A lot has to do with humanizing and personalizing the experience for the customers. And when I say this, I was reading a very interesting block yesterday and it said how is the user on boarding different than a customer on boarding?...

And it was so interesting because even as a user onboarding, the users not necessarily and customer right it's not purchase anything, is probably just barely interested in your brand because he's read something. And then how do you kind of allow him his experience to be more self helped based versus a customer who is more likely to invest or is interested in your business, you kind of give him more tutorial So how how the journeys are so different? And that's that's the kind of personalization I'm refering. I'm not referring to a personalization based on just adding the customer's name anymore and say how higish alie, It's not that anymore. It's more about complete different journeys based on what they're feeling at that moment from where they come and that's the core pus Like that is just amazing. Imagine the technology that we have right now with us to be able to do that, and now I think everyone is moving in that kind of direction as well. Yeah, that's really interesting a to to find that, And if I do, it'll be in the post for this episode, which we put up a nice little post for every single episode at bombom dot com slash podcast with video highlights, links to some of the things that we talked about, et cetera. And so if you're listening and you remember this episode or another one, um, you can always go to bombom dot com slash podcast, scroll them, click through. You can meet the guests kind of through video clips, and uh, you know, see some of the things that we talked about. I try to do a pretty good job around and that stuff up. And it's a really interesting line that you drew, and specific to the way you were talking about personalization. When I'm talking about that with people, I'm talking about it as meaningful personalization so that we can immediately set aside. I mean just that I I call it dear first name, you know, like awesome. It's so common as to be meaningless. We're blind to it. The only time it ever comes to our attention is when it's bad and you actually get dear first name, or it's like I got one it was so funny that never mind, I got one that greed to me by my last name and made a playful comment about you know, the idea of a dear first namement. Actually, so it's like the next iteration of dear first name anyway. Personally, yeah, meaningful personalization personalization that's felt, personalization that makes someone feel like you see me, you understand me, you know where we left off with um, etcetera, etcetera. UM. I also talk about that by the way, I think a lot of people are intimidated by them by by the data hygiene required to do that, the planning required to do that, the tools, tech and people required to do that. And that's why I just say, hey, do you want do you want meaningful personalization that's in your control? Send a video and just greet them with your face, uh and speak to their problem with the question or the opportunity or whatever like it. It's the same. It's a similar effect um for a non scaled environment or for an individual who doesn't necessarily have the backing of a lot of resources. Oh, I love it. I love how you mentioned how I love it because you're very well mentioned about the data points and the different people involved, and no one kind of sees that. Uh so it's a real struggle. You can't get any of the other stuff right if the back stuff is not very clear, uh hundred to seventh grade. Yeah, it's a really different podcast, I think, Yeah, it is this one already. So, and there are a number of things I haven't asked you yet that I intended to, including picking up on idea and human centered design, but um and even design in general. That's probably another conversation. But even the best in the business, I mean, let's just go to an easy one, like an Amazon. Right. They have mountains and mountains of data, they have a ton of money, they have a huge team, and I still get advertisements for products I've already purchased, right, So they can't even close that gap of like, they know I looked at it, they know I looked at it two or three times, and four other competing products, but I'm still getting ads to buy something I've hard Like that's the best in the world. Arguably UM, and I guess I guess I'll...

...turn that into a question for you, UM when you think about this UM, and I am going to ask you a similar question at the end that I ask every guest, But I guess I'll kind of pull it forward, maybe get a different response. I mentioned Amazon. I think that's an easy go to in terms of UM, collecting data, using data, well, personalizing the experience, etcetera. But when you think about UM human centricity, UM and meaningful personalization, what are some companies that you look to UM, either in terms of you know, reading stuff from their team members or even just experiencing it yourself. Like, what are a couple of companies that people should look to as maybe exemplars in this kind of meaningful personalization and maybe he like a more human experience. No, that's a very tricky question. It is I personally feel that every every sector might have one UM because you know, you're not using too many apps, So what you still feel like UM? I think pat M is a very good one. It's an Indian fintech brand. I think that's amazing because they kind of allow you to do a lot of things and personalizing experience, but also give you rewards for things UM and I really look up to them and they have a very strong UM design and experienced team as well, So Patium definitely one of the India's biggest brands. Another one is all which is again I'm picking up Indian brands because I really really I feel like they are most stronger compared to the West at this point of time, and especially because India's growing as a technology UM hub as well, so I think Another one isn't all Out, which is a writer app and it allows you to like book rides similar to Uber and Kareem, which is very good because it's exactly it tells you thinks that Uber does, but it's more about but we take this route is faster and this person will be at your place quicker comparatively, so it's not giving you any one option and you're just like stuck. But it's also gives you suggestions on places that you can then visit around, so it's a lot more things that you can do on the app, which I personally love UM. Another one I would look at is numb She, which is basically um a Brandon online e commerce band for in the UA, and that allows you to shop online, and I was recently acquired by no One, which is also a very good platform to you. So I think these are a couple that I can just think on top of my head at the moment. And of course Google and all go, you know, the big names go without saying of course, yeah good. That's why I asked you, because I only know the big names, and and you have a different inspective because the first time we talked, you were I believe in Dubai, and you were kind enough to meet me at almost midnight, which is like I'm was at that hour. Uh. And now you're in the Pacific time US Canada, North America, and you're kind enough to join me at six o'clock in the morning, So you are awesome. I've enjoyed this conversation. I've got a couple more questions for you. But but for folks who are listening, if you've enjoyed the themes and topics that we've covered here with to Shali, I want to point you to two more. One of them is episode to twenty five, a pretty recent one with Justin Zaluski. He's the director of product design and strategy at Studio Science, and we talked, of course about journey mapping, but we also got into the service layer, designing service blueprints to go underneath the journey map, UM, and how to design projects and prioritize them, and some of the other questions I had for you that I didn't get to you yet. UM. And then so it's tow with Justin Zaluski and then a little bit earlier episode one with Janelle st S who is awesome. She's the chief insights officer at User Testing. In their whole m O is to make it easier as you're doing research on any project, did any stage to get true human...

...insights, and so we talked about that process. She's been with User Testing for years and um wrote a fantastic book about it too, so we talked a little bit about the themes in the book as well. So that's justin Janelle. Before I let you go, I would love to have you think or mentioned someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career, and then to give a shout out to another company, your brand that you personally appreciate for the experience they deliver for you. UM. I think there are so many in this community that I have just been loved to buy, so picking one is very, very difficult. But I would definitely like to thank the entire Customics Beiing's Professional Association for being a huge part of my success and um really supporting me because every cc XP or a c xp A member has really contributed and supported my entire journey through through thick and thin, honestly, so it shows out out to everyone UM and in terms of another b and that has really impacted me. I definitely a shout out to now Money and they are a core part of me and will always be wonderful. Again, I will link those up at bombom dot com slash podcast This is going to be I just looked it up episode, So go to bombom dotcom slash podcasts you're listening, like right away, they'll be right at the top. If it's not, just hit Seymour and scroll down. Um, before I let you go, last thing, if someone enjoyed this, they want to learn more about you, they want to connect with you, They have some c X follow up questions. How can people connect with you or with the rest of your team? Yeah, sure so they can definitely reach us out on my personal LinkedIn, which is super Thank you so much. I appreciate you, I enjoyed the conversation, and again I have more questions, but those are for another day. Here's a fun fact. Video e mails and video messages aren't about video at all. They're about you and about the other person or the other people you're sharing that video with. Videos are about your tone, intent, enthusiasm, gratitude, concern, and all those other rich human nuances missing from your typed out messages. Save time, add clarity, convey sincerity. Send video messages from Gmail, Outlook, iPhone, Android, salesforce outreach, Zendesk, LinkedIn, Slack, and beyond with bomb bomb. Learn more and try it free at bomb bomb dot com. Thanks for listening to the Customer Experience Podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit bomb bomb dot com. Slash pot, Gasp.

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