The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

26. Increasing Lifetime Value and Decreasing Acquisition Cost by Holding Attention w/ Jay Acunzo

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Everyone has an experience of your company. Are you in control of it?

While the cost of keeping customer attention continues to rise, many marketers are still relying on industry trends and best practices to maintain engagement. What if your brand could be the one to set the trend?

We dove into this idea with Jay Acunzo, founder of Marketing Showrunners, to better understand how to drive audience attention through valuable experiences. You might be surprised at what we uncover in this episode of The Customer Experience Podcast.

I'm GOINGTA bust down the door to myVP's office and say enough. One off one hit wonders where's our series where's,our network of shows. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host, ethand Baute, Hey! Welcome! Back to the customerexperience podcast! You were in the right place for a great conversationabout content marketing generally and shows. Specifically, we have a formersports writer who spent three years as a digital media strategist at Google.He was the head of content at hub spot. He was the VP of content community at aVC, firm and now he's doing his own thing. Is the author of the book breakthe wheel and the founder of marketing show runners, so he helps PeopleProduce pee to be shows in order to engage their communities. Jaakunzo.Welcome to the customer experience podcast appreciate the untrail thanksfor Havpning Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm really excited you know you have awealth of experience, but the theme seems to be for me: digital and contentand community there's a really nice intersection there, and I think that isreally all about a customer experience pre during and post transaction. Let'ssay so so, let's get into it. I always start with the definition ofcharacteristics of customer experience. From your perspective, yeah, I like thewhat Andrew Davis who's a buddy of mine, who's, a speaker and author, but heruns a youtube series called the loyalty loop, which is incredible, sohe defines it as an interdaction with your brand. That leaves an impressionor not, and I love that part or not right, because I think everybody has anexperience of your company and the question has really become not whetheror not you have a customer experience. I know we talk a lot about that as ifit's like a discreet thing, it's not everybody has an experience of yourcompany. The question is whether or not you're proactive about cultivating agood one, and I think that really is the tipping point between a greatcustomer experience and to Jews point something that doesn't really leave animpression or maybe even leaves a bad one love it. You brought and thit's thereason. I always ask everybody with all these smart people with differentbackgrounds. The same questions, the wrinkle you'V vadded here- is this:This idea that it's happening, whether or not your thinking about it orcontrolling it, t is going to happen no matter what, and you also there's alsoimplior, that concept of being remarkable and remarkable just beingworthy of being mentioned again, and in this case you, you know, you've offeredthe potential for a completely flat, not remarkable experience, yeah Yeu. SoI did twenty part documentary series podcast series where we went insidetwenty of the best. What we thought were the best be to be brands thatreally cared about customer experience because for a while Anbe to beespecially brand customer experience, these were like for our consumercounterparts. You know what I mean. It was like a dirty word to bring up rhanda D and no longer so we went inside twenty of these companies, ranging fromyou know the recently public zoom all the way down to small startups thatmaybe some people have heard of but they're doing really innovative thingsand one of the things we looked at was: how do you define Brandt and link it tocustomer experience because it really is and what we landed on as a show wasbrand, is how others experience, there's that word, the collectivebehavior of your people and so like just to break that down really quickly,because I think it's important to get that definition, because then you canbe proactive. Like I said before, about developing your customer experience,others, it's not just existing customers or prospects soon to becustomers, it's potential partners and existing partners. It's investors, it'sthe team, it's potential employees, it's everybody, the press right, youname it comarketing partners. So it's how others experience there's that wordagain and they will have an experience,...

...whether you cultivat Ed or not, rightthe collective behavior of your people, because what is a company? What is abrand? What's the IP of Your Business, all this stuff? We use these are justempty shells or modicers. To summarize the collective behavior of a group ofpeople right, we as people make the work happen and so to address yourcustomer experience to build a great brand. You don't have to look for. Idon't know some collateral, that's lacking or some kind of hidden bestpractice. You need to start with the people who are doing the work andreally get them aligned and have good leadership and and good talent, etce,etc, because the rest doesn't quite take care of itself. You don't want tobe laze fair about this stuff, but it really becomes a lot easier right. Sobrand is how others experience the collective behavior of your people.It's a great definition. You did two things that are like one of thesebackground themes on the show that I really enjoy and continue to exploreand you've connected a couple of them. One is the relationship between exemployee experience in customer experience and the other one is thepotential synonymous relationship between customer experience and kind ofbrand experience. Some people have used those words interchangeably so y. ugave me new language, for it really love it talk about before we go further.You just mentioned a twenty twenty episode series for you and Marketingshowrunners a what are you trying to do with marketing showrunners and how areyou serving people and what is what is a show in this context? R? We justtalking podcast or you know, talk a little bit about marking showrunnerssure, so the company itself is a media and education business to helpmarketers create serealized content to build passionate audiences. But thereason it exists, I think, is far more interesting, Tho people which is we'reliving through this huge shift in marketing and it's been unfolding formany years, but we're not overtly talking about the shift. We're talkingabout the industry's reaction to the shift things like content marketing.The shift is marketing used to be about grabbing attention. You know a fewchannels existed, you'd, run campaigns, things would start and stop you'd wantimpressions and views and all that stuff. Now marketing can no longer beabout grabbing attention. It has to be about holding it and when you holdattention, everything else gets easier number one but number two. All thesethings we talk about is marketers kick in, namely two measurable benefits. Thelifetime of value of the people you reach goes up because they spendsignificant time with you. They trust you. They take actions with you, so theLTV of your existing audience or altv for people who are in Sass becausethere's another LTV, which is for the user of the product right. The LTV goesup the then because of that loyal, engage, passenat passion, audience yourcost of customer acquisition comes down because that audience starts this wordof mouth flywill right, because what is better than an army of people who adoreyour company can't get enough of your content and your business, your product,your people, and they share that message out to the world. So LTV goingup, Kack going down customer acquisition costs going down and thatsound you hear is every CMO on the planet. drooling like that is the holygrail of marketing really, but we're not talking about what it takes to getthere, which is the whole detention and there's no gaming. That system you haveto genuinely deliver something worthy of people's significant time investment,and there is this precedent. There's this vehicle, that is world classbeloved by everybody and Audience Centric to do that to hold attention.It's called a shout. It's just that this is a new muscle for marketers,from making pieces of content to making a series a show, an original series, sothat could be video that could be audio. You see people doing newsletters thathave this journey arc to them, they're, not just updates once a week theyactually build on each other. So you have all these serialized contentinitiatives coming out and and you're now witnessing moving from one offshows like bombams, great podcast, to whole strategies. Whole arms of teams,whole networks, male chimp, presents Shopifi originals profit well, which isa startupbout of Boston, has four different video series that all connectto each other to tumble you through that experience, keep using that word.I guess, is appropriate, but you're,...

...seeing this evolution from grabbingattention with pieces of content to holding attention with one show, andthat show is a side project to now entire teams and strategies andnetworks, and it's like Oh, my gosh. We need a home for this stuff. Let's bringthe community together and push this forward because it's great for thebusiness, it's great for the audience. So marketing showrunners was bornearlier this year to kind of put a steak in the ground and say we're goingto call this show running because it is it's just not from marketing.Historically, now it's a part of marketing we're going to bring togetherthe best and brightest and teachat each other. How To do this? Incredibly welland and so kind of our sweet spot is a marketing executive who really believesin this shift and wants their business to execute on it and all the parts andpieces that go into planning and producing and marketing and measuringlove it. Let's break that down just a little bit like tactically. I havethree questions you can take them in any order, one just for folks whoaren't familiar with the language you know, breakdown show running. Let's USHart there like Showin, is common powerlance, just not to the averagemarketer in two thousand and nineteen. Exactly so, we don't have to reinventthe wheel. A showrunner in TV, for example, is the individual or group ofindividuals. That's essentially the mini CEO of that program or group ofprograms. So if you run a a network of shows, so a showrunner is bothresponsible for the creative direction and the the dataday management andstrategy of the show, and so in a marketing sense. You know this is veryfamiliar to a lot of content. Marketers they're, like Oh yeah, like contanmarketer, means a lot of things, but the sweet spot. I think, t thestrategic type of leader that a lot of companies want as their CMO as theirSBP, their VP their director of content. However, whoever is owning kind of theroll up of all the content, marketers and agencies and freelancers thatperson has to be equal parts. You know they're their dual minded. They have tobe strategic and analytical and logical and think about when this goes out intothe market and how that helps our business and the audience as well, andthey have to care about the asset. It's like no commodity content coming out ofour walls, not yet another. How do we create the only and all the systems andprocesses that a leader has to keep in mind to do that can be very difficult,so my forecast, if you will tnat somethingI'm typically prone to doing, but because this business I have one. Ibelieve that you're going to see that title within the next twelve, maybeless months in businesses in brancs- that's all products and services,because it's very common in media, but it's you know what big media does. Ithink marketers do next yeah th you tied together a number of relatedthemes, including this idea of being more of a media company. So my otherquestion there just for people that are super intrigued. They buy the premisethey're like yes, is a consumer. I recognize this. I am more engaged withsome of these companies thet're doing this type of work. What types of showsyou know in terms of serialized content- and let's say you know we let's saybombom expands from the customer experience podcast and we do a videoshow. Typically, on Facebook, we also put on Youtube called the bombcast,which is more specifically videocentric like talking about video strategy. Youknow if we wanted to add two or three more shows to the portfolio. What typesof shows are these and then to the word community. Do you see companies tappingcommunity members in order to produce shows, on behalf of the brand in thebrands portfolio of shows? So let's start there, which is the idea ofcommunity, because I think you're seeing this shift. When you talk aboutmoving from grabbing attention to holding it, you talk about measuringsuccess in very different ways. You know just want a giant top a funnel.You want velocity down the funnel because I think that's the roll of theshow it doesn't sit on the top or the bottom there's benefits there too. Itstraightens the whole thing, because people feel they have a relationshipwith you. So the velocity down the funnel the trust is there so y? U Youstart to measure things like subscribers and timespent not clicksand views all these things change, but really at the fundamental human level.You Move Your Business from carring...

...about traffic to audience to community,so traffic is people that come and leave right. They clicked on an article.They have no idea who you are from Google and they read the article theyinject that knowledge of their brains. They don't subscribe. They don'trecognize your brand, they just get the content and they're out. Maybe they addit to an RSS reader or collector like pocket, and they even remove the brandan doing so right so they're in there out they're passing by its traffic necessary insufficient though audience is more a to be audienceis.What the listeners to this show start out us. It's US talking to each otherand really talking to the audience. A to be community is like ATB, be talkingback to a and be TC and CDD and FG and gdj like it's an intercenactivity. It'sa sense that you're part of something bigger than yourself you're in part ofa movement. I think that's what shows do really really well. They create thismovement, this interconnectivity, because who doesn't love that idea oflike wait, you watch that show. I love that show you listen to that podcast.Let me recommend my next favorite so when we move from audience or trafficaudience to community now, what we have to do is we have to reorient how webuild the assets in our businesses to do that, we can't let the ideal lead,like it's cool, to do a video show talking to experts, because, first ofall, everyone's doing that we have to start with the brand itself and thinkabout what does the brand represent in the world? What changes when they buyour product? What do we believe in like creating a show, is creating a bigimportant asset that should be central, not a side project and it's veryvisible, and it should own a feme in the market and spark that movement, soit's very important to your brand. In your experience, however, if you'relooking at other shows for inspiration to start it's difficult to map thatback to your brand, let me give you a quick example. I was talking to a showrunner named John Benini who's. The director of marketing at a startup inBoston called databox that databox helps you aggregate all your sources ofmarketing and product data into one DASHBOART, and I was talking to himabout his podcast for the business groundup, where they talked to expertsand successful people about building from the ground. Up just like lots ofother shows John is really skilled, but it's the concept that was lacking, so Iaskd them wel. What is databox do what changes and he was like. Well we'rereally passionete about this idea that when you see a big report from your CEO,where your Cmo or your department head, you don't really know how your workspecifically contributes to that number. Yeu have t a sense, maybe it's brokendown to smaller numbers you have to hit. But when you talk about the health ofthe business, which is what the databox product shows you analytically, youwant to know that, like your micro actions your day today, contributionsand motion contributed to the overorl business success and so databox helpsteams do that which Spurs alinement and clarity and all this good stuff. I waslike excellent. Even if you make only a minor change to the show map it to that,if you're going to keep talking to successful people about how they builtfrom the ground up every episode pluck out three or five or pick a number fivesmall things they did that added up to big success. So if you talk to XYZfamous people in Marketing Dave appeared on all these other showsyou're competing with, but not like this not like you talk to them becauseyeah they're talking about their book but they're talking about the fivemicro decisions they made that added up to the best seller right and that onlyhappens on the databox podcast groundup. So that's what I mean when you starttalking about shows it's not about grabbing it trends, it's about! Lookingat your brand thinking about what you represent and having that manifestthrough some kind of concept in your show, so good. So a lot of things there talk about the core value peace there alittle bit more! So do you! What is your engagement with? So I know youwork with a number of great companies. Are you helping them at that level orwhen you're engaging with people around this theme? Are you typically startingat values, purpose mission, or are you...

...finding a lot of people already knowthat and you're just helping them map that into how do we walk that out andturn that into content yeah? It's funny, because you just turn that problem overfrom multiple angles and there's probably sixteen more different ways:people approach, thes, stuff and then historically for the last three years.They would come to me because I have a podcast called UNTHINKABLL, which isjust me. annouted me in a producer, tally Gabriel, but historically I wasdoing it alone, but it sounds like there's a whole team involved, and it'sjust because I think I looked harder at the process and the strategy than mostpeople. So I'm proud of how delicious the sound is. It's ultimately amarketing and business show, but it doesn't seem like it is it's just it'sentertaining and and delicious. So people would come to me and say how youdo that we'd like to do that, and so I was like. Oh, I could make money doingthat, so I started to actually create shows for brands and because the wayyou just l line that up is so poignant because everybody was coming to me witha different question and different flavor of problem, and I realize thatthey don't need client services. They need education and community. Likewe're all doing this in a black box, it feels like a black box where weinventing the wheel every time like, let's I've managed to connect myself toall these very smart marketers and strategic leaders and now tech, vendorsbuilding products solely for showrunners and marketing. It's crazy!It's happening I'm about a year too soon, which is good. It's exactly whereI want to be, and I'm like well, because they have no idea how to sevenstart and TNOT start like how to launch a podcast Hundre, an one start likewhere I'm a CMO. How do I encourage my team to think about holding attention?How do I encourage my team to think about cerial Iz content, I'm going tobust down the door to my VP's office and say enough? One off one hit wonderswhere's our series where's our network of shows. How are we holding attention,earning trust and building that passionate Fan Bass, because I want toincrease LTV and lower kack right, I'm the I'm, the team leader. They didn'tknow how to come at that. So so I ditch the client services after doing about adozen shows for companies like Wistia and drift and flipboard, and I decidedto do the educational rote so to your question. There's no one right way tocome act this stuff, so it has to be bespoke. It has to be because it's sucha big asset. It has to be about talking to the right people internally and theright customers externally to think about what is it we're trying toaccomplish? What's our aspiration for our brand, what do we are alreadyrepresent and also like what should we own outright in the market that isunasailable that no competitor can copy, because t e can copy our tips andtricks block posts and no one will bat an eye, but if they cot the our showthat is brand Ip, it is ours. It is identifiable so when you're throwingthat big rock into the lake so to speak, it does take a lot more strategicplanning and that's super dependent on the business so good you offeredearlier before, and you just echoed it at least the way I heard you use youtossed off really quickly. The only and it reminds me of you know you don'twant to be the best you want to be the only in in that way, you're being yourbest self, which reminds me a little bit before I go to the way. I alwayslove to wrap up these conversations. You Ere a book called break the weewhich gets into best practices, which I have to assume you address, questionbest practices, honing your intuition and doing your best work, I'm going togo out on a limb and say that in questioning best practices, it's aboutnot aspiring to be the best but aspiring to be the only and being yourbest self talk a little bit about why you wrote the book and maybe a couplekey premises in there that that folks can take away sure. I think, especiallyin marketing, but it really affects all O business with his book, which is whyI wanted to write it. We've misconstrued the goal of our work,because the goal is not to find best practices. The goals define the bestapproach for you, but unfortunately, whether it's the education system orthe system of work that we're part of who ere never really told that D ortaught how to do that, and so what I sought out in two years of doingresearch and telling stories on my podcast and then culminating in thebook I sought out. Can we put a system of asking good questions in place as akind of like mental filter so that we...

...can press any best practice or trend orpast precedent? Any new idea we have through that filter and some thingswill make it through some things will get stuck and most things will get kindof halfway or pieces of hit will lead through because the goal iscontextualized or context based decision making not deciding in avacuum in a boardroom in general copy cat. None of that, because that leadesthe commodity work so throughout the book we look for who has done somethingthat seems anti or counter the best practice. When you talk to them, theyexplain it in logical terms. It doesn't seem risky. Why and the really the bigrealization for me- and this came from doing the show tha the series I'mthinkable is they pointed to something in their own unique context as how theyrationalize this countercultural or antidespractice decision they weren'tbeing rebels, they weren't geniuses or visionaries. They were very logical andstrategic, almost safe in their path, and it seemed that way because theypaid more attention to one of three things or all. Three. Their context ismade up of one their team, the people doing the work to their customers, thepeople they aim to serve specifically not a generic persona, these people andthen three their resources right, because I'm not so, and so I'm not thatbrand. We have a finite number resources, not just monetarily, buttime and goals and all that stuff. So if you look at those three things,first, you set up a decision making filter to make tough decisions fasterwhen you're surrounded by way too much information which spoiler alert iseverybody in business today. So that's that's the purpose of the book. It doeshelp with making shows for sure, but I think it's so much more than that isjust how we approach making decisions at work. It does I this filter, I've al.I came up as kind of a brand marketer. I was not doing a ton of directresponse, a came up and broadcast, and it was this idea of building a brandfilter of what we do, what we don't do, what a e we, what happens that we don'ttalk about, because it's not worth talking about to reinforce the brand ordemonstrate that we live the brand or whatever you know what Dore wecelebrating. So it's just. I think this connects back to your point of it,helps you with shows, but a lot more, it's. I think it all ties to this kindof North Star brand filter. Who Are we? What are we about? What are we uniquelyequipped to do in the world, and how are we going to go forth? I love it. Ialso love your take quick take on visionaries. There is that they don'tsee the future. They just see the present much more clearly because theyrpaying attention in a very intentional way, a hundred percent of best practice,even a trend. If it's a new trend where, like it is a hot new trend, will reallyeven that is a lagging indicator right, because it build up over time to becomea trend to become more ubiquitous than not and so we're most of US based ourdecisions on ligging himdicators. These vision aries that we lawd again theydon't see the future. They can extrapolate to the future easier, buttheir real magic. Is They just look at the present and they update theirknowledge constantly. Based on that, so the switch is rather than a like, anexpert which cares about absolutes act like an investigator, which cares aboutevidence and asking really good questions is the Hamemark. So I thinktha the question I d ask your listeners and your viewers is like what, if westopped obsessing with everybody else's supposed right answers and got reallygood at asking ourselves and our teams the rink questions. I think when westart from that PREMIS, we can build up more original thinking in a way thatfeels logical, like it makes innovation and creativity feel within our graspand strategic instead of lofty and out of touch or yeah you're, some visionaryout of pedestal. I just don't believe in that, so good. It's about empoweringyourself empowering your team members. I love this curiosity play that you'recalling for I wish we had more time but town or your time and our listenersrelationships are our number one core value at bombomb and here on the show.So I always love to give you the chance to thank or mention someone mormultiple people. Some people have done that. We've had a positive impact onyour life for your career and a quick mention of a company that you think isdoing experience the right way. I have to shout out Andrew Davis. I mentionedhim at the top of the show for how he...

...defines customer experience. He hasbeen a tremendous friend in mentor for me over the last four or five years,where you know from my speaking business and getting that off theground and really showing me the ropes behind the scenes, because it's stillkind of a black box industry to talking through the development of thisbusiness marketing showrunners to you, know, survicing stories for unthinkable.My podcast, like he's, done the big in the small without expecting anything inreturn, and so I've therefore tried to give him as much possible hype andgratitude and stuff in return is possible, like that's the benefit of areal relationship to your point, so injew Davis is someone that peopleshould keep an eye on. I have the shout him out check out his loyalty, loopvideos, so loyalty loop is his series on Youtube. It's unbelievable for allmarketers. So That's Andrew Davis for loyalty, loop and as a business, goesI'm really impressed by the evolution of Wistea. I think they're goingthrough this similar phase. We talked before the show about how we've bothbeen part of businesses that were like teenagers kind of growing from start upto large growth stage companies and that could be really awkward just likeany business. Wisdyau has tripped and sumbled its way forward, but they havethis clear vision based on the founders and they're, really gracefully evolvingfrom creating one off individual videos to creating series of videos theywatched their first one last year it was a four part, Doki series, but nowthey're, actually starting to plan behind the scenes. Some shows and someproducts that help parketers make shows so keep your eye on withtia. I thinkthey tremendously care about the evolution of business from a humanstandpoint, which also then leads for them to them. Having tremendous empathyfor their customers and their prospects, and everybody involves in theirbusiness, they gay their customer experience. So with Yia gets my lovethere. Yeah that series they did last year was really cool and the findingsare interesting too. You are very obviously a wealth of knowledge, greatperspective, fresh perspective, very encouraging and opening, I think, fordoing better. Work is very inspiring to me, and I have to imagine it's due inpart to all of the conversations you've had with other people and that you'veproduced for yourself on your own podcast. For people who want to followup with you. How can they connect with you or unthinkable or marketing? Showrunners whare are some good ways for people to follow up on this greatconversation. So there's one wiy to listen and wont want Wy One way to readso the way to listen is to check out on thinkable, which is my podcast. It'sgoing to sound a lot different than most business podcast. I hope that's agood thing for people who are interested and then the way to read ismarketing. showrunners has a monthly email, because I want to respectpeople's time. It's a monthy email that shares one big idea that can change howyou view marketing and create not only better shows, but just better work andaroundup of resources that are kind of packaged in funny random ways. Sothat's the marketing show runners website has a subscribe button right atthe top and we're fortunate we're early, but we have marketers from redbull andShopifi and sales forest and adobe all the way down to startups, and so I'mvery lucky. I think I think we're putting our finger on something a lotof people care about and, most importantly, I think, we're ushering inan Arro where marketing has to be based on experience and it can't be based onjust tricking your way forward into someone's life. It's got to begenuinely worth their time, so I like that idea of marketing overall, and sothat newsletter is kind of where we share the best ideas that we've bothfound and created every month once a month so good. I love your philosophyJaacunzo. This has been fantastic. I appreciate your time so much continuedsuccess to you and I'm about to go subscribe to that email. Well, first,all thank you for having me to the listeners or the viewers. If you madeit this far, I'm somebody who believes that marketing is not about who arrivesit's about who stays, and so I just want to say like thanks for stickingwith us. This is it's a commitment, so thanks for sticking aound for thisepisode, Yeah very good thanks. So much have a great afternoon yoad clear communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance,so pick up the official book,...

Rehumonize Your Business, how personalvideos, accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in ordertoday at Bombamcom book, that's Bomb Tombcom book thanks for listening tothe customer experience. podcast remember the single most importantthing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for yourcustomers, continue learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribingright now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombomcom podcast.

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