The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

28. No, Your Customer Isn't Always Right w/ Jaime Casap

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today’s guest is Jaime Casap, Chief Education Evangelist at Google

Jaime helped launch G-Suite and other applications in schools, and he sincerely believes that education can disrupt poverty and transform lives.

In this episode, Jaime talks about what Google’s doing that didn’t seem possible five years ago, why he thinks the customer is always wrong, why “What do you want to be when you grow up?” is the wrong question, and how companies should prepare for the arrival of Generation Z.

If you think about GMO, Gmailwas a solved this. You know, emails, a solved problem. No, it wasn't right. And so what we found where the problems in there? We didn't ask customers, Hey, you want a new email platform?Right, the chrome book was solving a problem. So so it's about identifyinga problem and sometimes your customer doesn't know what the problem doesn't mean you sureand ask him. Doesn't mean sure and talk to him. I'm just sayingthat you got to go beyond that the single most important thing you can dotoday is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn howsales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes andexceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experiencepodcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey, I am so glad you'rewith us on this episode of the customer experience podcast. I know you'regoing to be glad you're here to today we're talking about education, technology,innovation, generation Z and a whole lot more. Today's guest spent several yearsat accenture and Charles Schwab before joining Google, where he's been for more than adozen years now. As the education evangelist, he helps launch g suiteand Google APPs into schools and universities. He believes that education and technology candisrupt poverty and transform lives. Jamie cassup, welcome to the customer experience podcast.Thank you very much. That's one of the best introductions I've ever heard. That great, you know. So we're all in the right place,so good. Hey, I have a bunch of questions that I know you'regoing to enjoy thinking about and talking about, but I'm going to start here whereI start with every guest, which is your thoughts or your definition orcharacteristics. When I see customer experience. What comes to mind to you?Yeah, I think it's funny that you mentioned that, because I just hadone of these. It's a delight. It's it's like your you feel greatabout the interaction. Right. So this idea of having this interaction, andI don't know if I can share the story. You can edit this outmaybe if it's not appropriate, but I had one of these interactions with polarpro you know. As you know, I'm shooting these youtube videos and Ibought these filters and I lost one of the caps for these really nice filters, and so I email polar pro and I said, Hey, I lostyou know where can I order another one? I need another cap for my formy nd filter, and I like hey, we got a bunch ofthe office. Don't worry about it, will just send you one right.No, no charger shipping, no, nothing like that kind of experience ishow I define really good customer experience. It's this idea of having a positiveexperience and they send me one and it's great and you know, and Icouldn't be more delighted and I get to share those stories, right, andthat's the whole point of having a good customer experiences, that you get toshare those stories with other people. Yes, who it's there? I hear kindof two themes. One is kind of this frictionless thing, like Oh, that was easy ezier than I expected. And then too, is that Ihave a friend or and advocate over there. They just happen to sellfilters and other related products. But it's this, we're in this with you. It's a relationship so good. So you've so much great content available online. So if anyone wants to see keynotes or a tedx talk or Jamie's YouTubechannel. Just Google Jamie CASS UP, jaim E ce a sap. Wemight get into some of those teams. I highly recommend any of the keynotes. That said that, several of the people he spoken for of put upthere. So we may not get deep into those teams. But I dowant to start with this kind of competitive landscape situation. What are you inGoogle doing in education? That a kind of frustrates Microsoft and apple and bewas maybe thought not to be able to be done. But five years ago, like you guys can't do that. Like what are you doing? Sofor folks who are listening, just some context, like what are you doingin the education space with Google? Yeah, and this is going to part ofthis is going to sound like a corny answer or some kind of corporateanswer, but it's absolutely true. I've...

...going to go over thirteen years.I have no idea what apple and Microsoft are doing. I could, Idon't care what they're doing. That's not what I focus on and this isa sounds like one of those answers, but it's absolutely true. All Icare about our our users, right. All I care about the users thatare using up our tools and being able to provide them the best experience andalso to be able to take their ideas and take the experiences that they're havingand use that to build whatever is that we're building. So that's the mindsetthat we have, that's the mindset my team has. And Look, Microsoftproducts are great, apple products are great. I haven't you know, I havean IPAD, I have lots of different types of tools. It's aboutfinding the right tool for the right job. But what we focus on is beingable to provide our users, and that's always a bad word into technologystakes, are customers, if you will, the best experience that they can have. And so when we launched Google APPS for education, it was thisfirst. It was this tool for universities, because lots of people and lots ofuniversities weren't giving their customers, their students, a good experience, andthis was a way for them, for the universities, to give them agood experience. And so that's why Google APPs, that we now d callyou, not called G suite, took off and did really well. Butthe thing I think that people thought we would never be able to do well, and is with the release of chrome books, the right they I thinkpeople thought that chrome books weren't going to be very successful or people would say, Hey, what are you doing? I don't understand what why are yougetting into this? And again, if you think about what a chrome bookcan do in education, it has two really good benefits. Number one isit gives the individual good experience. Right, they bowed up. In a coupleseconds, they're up and running. The battery last all day. Youknow, you have a simple experience. It's great. But the real benefitis for the administrators. And I used to have this joke that when Idid these chrome book presentations, I used to say the day I dread themost out of any day of the year, the day I wish I could work, is December twenty five. And you get that puzzle. Look asto the summer twenty five. I'm like yes, because that's the day myinlaws get their new technology that I now have to implement. And If tocolleges, educated people can't do this, can't implement technology. What is itlike for an organization has a thousand people, tenzero people, Hundredzero people, andwith the chrome book was able to do for those customers is be ableto give them the tools that they needed to be able to launch a largenumber of devices and manage those devices, and I think that's why the chromebooks have been successful. And so I think that we are in the educationspace because we build really cool tools and we have really cool platforms that canbe used in education, and that's what we're doing. So in the twolayers there you have this students, has customers, and you already listed afew very specific benefits of the chrome book there. But then, of course, did the decisionmaker or the buyer in this scenario is the administrator, andso you're providing easy implementation and back end reporting in these kinds of things forthem. Yeah, no, it's more about like so when a student takethat chrome book, that that administrator can control that chrome book? Can thisdetermine what website says? Student can see there's no chance of virus is gettingon these devices. So so when when they when you do a take homeprogram, for example a Oneto one, take your machines home, you're notworried about all these other machines coming back and drop in a bunch of virusesand bugs into your system because you've basically extended the cool the school system towherever those students are, because when they're using that device it's like they're usingthem at school. It's not like they're even if they connect through their homenetwork, they're still going through the through the setup that you have for them. So it's you're still responsible for love it. Going to the going backto the you know, let's say,...

...a couple college educated parents. Ibet they wish they had to say he's of implementation, just children's own devices. Before we get do a wide range of stuff, because you're a veryinteresting and expressive person. taught. Let's stay on. Let's stay on this, this evangelist role with Google a little bit. I did a chief ofangelist series for another podcast with evangelist from apple and Amazon and inside and terminus. For you, what is the role of an evangelist? Me Just justgive the quick ones over here. How did you find yourself in it?What are the benefits to Google and what might someone who's listening to this,you know, a salesperson or a marketer or a leader, like what ormaybe some signs that they might need or want a similar role in their organization? Yeah, I know. So I think it's a great question. Becausethis is not something that I set out to do. This is not ajob that I wanted. It just kind of turned into one, and Ithink that's part of it too, is this organic growth. And for meI actually was listed. You know, I listened to myself. When welaunch Google, ask education. I was working with universities and I was workingwith K twelve institutions. I was like education manager a google or something likethat. Right, our team was very small. We started out with twopeople, you know, at this point we have like three or four people. And I actually went into the presentation in Michigan and the executive for technologyfor the State of Michigan was in this presentation and he came up to meafter my presentation and he's like you're not. I don't know what your title is, but you're not. Whatever your title is, you are an evangelistright. You are bringing good news and and I'm like Oh, okay,and so it kind of stuck and it kind of grew from that and,as you mentioned, in the technology space there's lots of these evangelist roles.But for me, I think I'd made a decision ten years ago where Ididn't want to be a salesperson, and there's nothing wrong with being a salesperson. I just think there's a place in time for that. I wanted tohave a point of view, I wanted to have a perspective so I canget up on stage and talk about technology and education and generation Z in thefuture of work and has nothing to do with Google. Has To do withthese ideas, in these concepts. I believe, obviously, that Google buildsthe best tools, or I wouldn't be working there. And so I thinkthat's the tie in. And so an evangelist isn't about, you know,being a sales pitch person for your products and services, and evangelist is thereto bring good news to people. And for me, the can use likeone of the things that I say in my presentation, because people in educationhere this all the time. They hear this idea that education is broken,that it doesn't work, which is a funny concept considering that we've built thesuperpower of a nation on the back of the education system that we built inthis country. Right and by the way, it's also worked for millions and millionsand millions and millions of people, and I get and has it workedfor everyone? Absolutely not. But it's a different conversation to say hey,education is broken, everything you do sucks and you should go away. Comparethat to look what we need to do is bring education to the next level. Education has been very successful for the last hundred and fifty years. Nowwe need to look at the future and ask ourselves and do what our forefathersand education did and ask ourselves what's the right education system for the future thatwe face. So it becomes a calling rather than a defensive mechanism that peopletend to I get it. You've spend your whole life and career working ina space and someone comes in from the outside and tells you that you're terrible. It's a so I think it's the approach right. So to me,I always a part of the way you think you you talked about my youtubevideos, is to have a different perspective, to have a different point of viewthat doesn't necessary fall in line with the conventional wisdom and to be anadvocate, even if sometimes it's against what your company's doing or against the policyor an idea. So it's sticking to those principles and having a perspective anda point of view. I love the...

...constructive approach. There of you knowthere is a better way to do this. Then that's all broken. Right,there's nothing constructive about that's all broken in addition to it being just agross exaggeration. Sure, you flip another question on its head. So Ijust want your thoughts or feedback on this. So in when your presentations, youoffer what do you want to be when you grow up as the wrongquestion. Yeah, and and flip it and say what problem do you wantto solve and offer that as a better question. And for me as someonewho, Gosh, it's been several years since I finished a master's degree,which was several years after an undergraduate bachelor's degree and which was, you know, four years after a high school education. For me that it's super resonated forme within my own job, and I know the folks listening will kindof like this contrast to speak a little bit to how you arrived at thisthought and how you how you talk about it. Yeah, and again,this is using the same kind of model, which is you know, I talkedto students and I asked students, Hey, how many of you havebeen asked what you want to be when you grow up, and every singlehand goes up and or I say to my audience, is it was agreat question. Again, it was a very good question for a very longtime. When we have like a hundred jobs, when jobs are pretty stable, when you can do an assessment in fourth grade about what you were goingto do in a future, and mine was an irs agent, we hadjobs that were pretty stabled. Change happen much slower back then. That questionmade sense. Now we need to come up with a new question, givena fit, given what we face. Sixty five percent of the jobs ofthe future don't exist today. Jobs the constantly shifting and changing much faster thanever before. I'm working for a company you that then exist twenty years ago, right. So the better question is, or the new question, if youwill, is what problem do you want to solve? What's the problemthat spins in your head? And, by the way, there's other partto that, which is how do you want to solve that problem? Howdo you want to take the skills and the passions? But of what youhad to solve that problem, because there's tenzero ways to solve a problem.What's your angle on it? What's your perspective, what's your point of viewon solving that problem. Because if you, if I was a student, andyou said and I said you, Hey, I want to I wantto solve climate change, your first instinct does an adult, might be tocome to me and say, Hey, you need to be a scientist,you need go study science. But if I'm a videographer, if I'm afilm producer, if I'm someone who likes to take photographs, the way II might solve that problem is to go document climate change or to go educateother people about climate and there's lots of ways to solve a problem. Sowhat problem you want to solve? How do you want to solve it?And then you can start thinking about what do you need to learn? Whatare the knowledge, the skills and your abilities you need to have to solvethat problem, and how can you start building those knowledge, skills and abilities? And I think this is where it comes in, where today you havethe whole world that your fingertips right you that that's the good news, isthat you can learn anything today at a speed that's never been possible before.What classes can you take online, offline, white at MIT, at Stanford,at Harvard? What you know? WHO's solving that problem today and howdo you connect with them? How what? I had a student reach out tome a couple of days ago and she's like, Hey, I wantto solve the education problem. Here's my angle on it. Love to talkto you absolutely. Let's set up a card. I'll talk to you right. So. So, there's so many different ways to think about this,but it's basically based on I'm I'm sure you've read Daniel Pink's book drive rightabout what motivates all of us as human beings. It's the same three things. Purpose or problem do you want to solve? Autonomy, how do youwant to solve it? And mastering. What do you need to learn tosolve that problem? That's where the whole package comes from. So good.I love that translation of the book. I haven't. You know, theyresonate with you and if anyone has not read the book it's a highly recommendedread. Or there's a really nice animated video that's a twelve minute introduction tothe core concepts of it. I haven't.

I didn't make that connection so easily. I love what you did with that. The customer is always wrong. Do you have any thought this star? Sorry, moving on to a newidea, new topic here. The customers always wrong. Will talk aboutthat? Yeah, so I this idea that the you know, this oldagain old model about the customers always right. I always found that as fascinating.I always found that that idea to be not, first of all,not true. Like what does it's the old Henry Henry Ford quote. Right, if I ask my customers what they wanted, they'd ask for a fasterhorse. Right. Like sometimes your customers don't know what they want and it'sbetter to solve their problems. And so if you focus on a customer andtry to solve their problems or pre able to create stuff that that makes theirlife easier, they might not always know what's right, and so it's beingable to do that, and you do that through observation, through data collection, through as. I'll give you an example. The one of the thingsthat I was working with the university, with the Arizona State University, withthe their union people. Right, they had a fire, they burned downpart of the Union. So they were rebuilding and they wanted by help andthinking about what it should look like. What are the what are the thingsthat they need to build? And I always think about asking customers, thestudents, right, like a passive, aggressive suggestion box, right, likelike ask you know what they want. They might give you an answer,but that might not be the right answer, or they might just give an answerbecause you're asking for one. They might not have thought of it orthey might not care about it. Is as much as you think. Sowhat I suggested it was let's just watch them, let's just see what theydo and what we found. We're students coming into the union with their carethe end of their cord of their laptop, like looking everywhere for a plug.Right. They might not have said, hey, we want more outlets.That might not be top of rum eye. or we would see studentscoming in and it's the middle summer and they're wearing hoodies, with their hoodon because the air conditioners too cold. Right. So we can observe andget to answers so much better than asking them what they what they want inthat scenario. Gosh, it seems like you could ask them what problems theythink they have as part of it as well. Yeah, it's supposed toask him for the solution, ask them about their problems. Sure. Yeah, no, ask him. You know how what's your experience like that?There's nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that this idea that youknow, you build what your customers want isn't necessarily like you know, ifyou think about Google, for example, as a company, not even becauseI work there, search was a solved problem when when Google started, right, we had alt this, we had Yahoo, we already had search intoes. Right. If you think about the chrome browser, right, the browsand anet browser was a solved issue. Right, we already hadn't. Ifyou think about GMO, Gmail was a solved dish. You know, emailsa solved problem? No, it wasn't. Right. And so what we foundwhere the problems in there. We didn't ask customers, Hey, doyou want a new email platform? Right, the chrome book was solving a problem. So so it's about identifying the problem. And sometimes your customer doesn'tknow what the problem doesn't mean you sure and ask him. Doesn't mean surehim, talk to him. I'm just saying that you got to go beyondthat. Yep, and that's just that's the essence of an iterative and innovativeapproach. That these solve problems aren't actually necessarily solved. It all, evenif the customer might feel like they are right by the way. Shark.You know, if you watch shark tank, I'm I love watching my wife andI love watching shark tank, and every time you sit there you're likewhy did I think of that? Or like, you know, like those, the solutions that some of those people have come up with were solutions twoproblems that you never identified. Right. So, how would you ever identify? Even though this clear act, you see the thing, you're like theScrub Daddy, of course, right, like here's a gazillion dollar company,the guy created this thing and and you're like a you know, we've beenwatching dishes for a thousand years and this...

...guy came up with this idea andit solved the problem, lots of problems, and it was just brilliant. Like. So. So, yes, asking customers, talking to customers,absolutely, but observing them, watching them, you know, getting to know they're, what their problems are, by doing those things, is absolutely beneficial. So good. And for all the folks who are listening to work atsoftware company's obvious. So your data can give you a lot of you know, if you can't stand in a student union and watch where people are comingand going and how they're behaving. You can still watch their behavior through feedbackchannels on how the software is being used and where they go and what theydo and how long they spend there and all that new idea. Generation Zdoesn't care nearly as much about satisfaction as they do about relationships. Yeah,yeah, so I've been speaking a lot about generation z and the things thatthey care about and I've been talking the mostly the universities and businesses that areabout to face generation z right, whether they are potential customers of clients oreven future workers. Here's an example. Three different studies shows showed me thatseventy percent of generation Z doesn't want to work for you at all. Right, they want to do their own thing, and that is going to have ahuge impact. Now when you and I your my your might not beas old as I am, but when I was a kid, if Iwanted to start a business, I had to get an investment, I hadto get a store front, I had to get equipment and material and whateverI was going to sell the customers had to be something that's common across theboard, because I wanted to bring them. Most people into my store that tooka lot of effort. Today we live in a longtail economy. Youcan create a niche about anything and focus on that specific niche and sell thingsfrom your basement, sell things from your from your garage. I can starta flat earth t shirt company and so hundreds of flat and well, unfortunately, thousands of flatter of teacher based on that like. So there's so manylittle niches that you can start in now that we live in this long tailthat you didn't you don't have to have a solution for the common person.You can have a solution for a niche and and a problem solving issue fora niche and then focus on that. So to your point about you knowso parted. So that's generation Z in terms of work and what they're lookingfor and what they want to be able to do and if they and thisties back to what you're saying, if they do want if they do workfor your company, they want to have meaningful employment. They know that seventypercent of Americans are disengaged with the work. They know that this idea of statusand what kind of car you drive and what kind of house you liveand doesn't matter to them. They want experiences they want. They want tohave a relationship, and so, whether they're going to work for you orwhether they're one of your future customers, they want the relationship, they wantthe experience and they want to know that you're doing things in an ethical way. They want to know that you are doing the best you can for humanityand society, because this is the climate change generation. This is the problemsare being generation. Right. So, Gretta, the girl in Norway orSwitzerland, I always get those countries confused. She started environmental movements with students andshe's got billions of students some hundreds of countries, protesting climate change onFridays from school. She did this all from her home and she was justnominated for a Nobel Peace Prize and if she wins that will be two teenagersthat have won the Nobel Peace Prize in the last five years. That's whothis generation is. I love that you made the connection there between employees andcustomers, because the the theme is the same, it plays out the samethis kind of you know something that I didn't expect, although in hindsight itmakes perfect sense. In starting the podcasting out. You know, a fewdozen conversations in is the relationship between the employee experience and the customer experience,how they both matter if you're going to attract and recruit and engage and retainthis generation of workers. A lot of...

...these factors come to come into play. And so you recruit differently and you know, our Friday lunch here atthe office looks and behaves a little bit differently for that nature of meaningful andpurposeful employment. And, Oh, by the way, when you go downthat road and you start installing these things in your business in a real tangible, practical, meaningful way, it's not just scratching the edge of a youngergeneration, it's good for everybody. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, and it's attractiveto customers as well. Howard Stern as one of the best interviewers ofall time. Yeah, these are great topics. The so. So Ididn't just for you, by the way. Yeah, yeah, like I dida video. I did it one of my youtube videos is the jokeis Howard Stern as a voice in my head and I was trying to makea point with that video, which is you have a voice in your head. Who is that voice in your head? And oftentimes we think that we're thevoice in our head and we're not. Are. The voice in our headcomes from our experience, lots of factors and for me Howard Stern wasthat voice my head since I was in high school. I've been listening tohim from in high school and he is developed into one of the best interviewersof all time because he's engaged, like you are, in this conversation,in the conversation he's just not thinking about what the next question is, he'snot thinking about, like, what the response as, he's not thinking aboutwhat he sounds like. He's asked some very stupid questions over the years andlistening to him do interviews, but he gets to some really good answers andhe gets some really good questions because he's listening, he's put and, asthe said in the video, he's playing jazz and interview. He's going offwhatever it is that you're saying and then taking that track and at the sametime he's trying to understand not so much about, like what you do,but who you are and that those are important things. And I can't tellyou how many times someone and a Howard Stern interview, how many times hemakes news because somebody will reveal something and a Howard Stern interview. But Ican't tell you how many interviewees have said I can't believe I'm about to saythis is. Oh, I can't believe I just told you that, orI can't believe you knew that, and and they dive deep. The greatone of the Great Stories is Colin O'Brien, who you think of is the spoofyguy on TV, who's a funny guy, and he interview and inthe interview he talks about mental health and how he's the dealt with the pressureand just he's such a great interview and I feel like when I talk topeople, when I talked on airplanes, for example, I don't get intothis to the like where you from? I'm from New York, or Igot a friend and you know Dan right like you, I don't like thoseconversations. I get into deep conversations about things because Howard stern has been thevoice of my head all these erves. That reminds me of something I literallyjust engaged in on Linkedin. It was a quote of a guy who wason the podcasts sales coach with the trusted advisors. The name of his company, Gutting, Charles Green, and he said stop focusing so much on yourelevator pitch and start focusing on your elevator question. As you were sharing yourobservations about Howard Stern, I was thinking about how valuable that approach is toa to the discovery process in a sales situation, where a good salesperson isgoing to ask meaningful questions, you know and truly listen, not just tomove through the list of questions and take a note down so I know howto you know, I know what path to send them down, but butto truly listen. Again, getting back to to solving problems that the personmay not know they have or you have a solution that they didn't anticipate.And then to hear you talk about the airplane made me think of that.Like elevator questions. Did of elevator pitch, like what roads do you like togo down with strangers on airplanes? Yeah, so, I that's agreat exact I don't so I have these giant headphones. People Confuse me becauseI'm in the public space and because I'm...

...not a lot because I do alot of presentations. They think I'm an extrovert and I'm not an extrovert,I'm an introvert. I like the best time in my life is when Ilike all week I've been home and I will sit in my studio and notleave, like I love being in here. And because of that, I whenI travel, I have giant headphones on and I am and I don'tusually talk to people, but if I get into a conversation, at theend of the conversation we're either friends or I have Your Business Card, youhave mine and we're connecting and because I try to get into these de conversations. So, for example, I said a friend of mine, she's anartist in Pittsburgh. I met her on an airplane and she had was shoesitting next to me and her boots were all painted it up right. Therewere like all like drops of paint. So obviously she was an artist,and so I looked at her and I saw her boots and I said,Hey, I think you got something on your boot right, like as ajoke, and that started into you know, you think, and we got intolike and then she'll say she'll say I'm an artist and I'm like,you know, like what, like finger painting, so I tried to besarcastic and blunt and funny and I skip by the like what's the weather likein Texas? Like we don't get into that. I try to get alook. Did you always want to be an artist? That like how willshow me what your work looks like. Well, why did you do itthis way? So I get into these deeper conversations with people and that myrelationships with people have started on our planes because we get into those deep conversations. So good specific insights for sales and for customer success. They're really foranyone work in a professional capacity. Be sincerely interested in the people around you. A people love to talk about themselves and be you're going to learn aton by engaging people in unique ways. The other thing that I find whenyou ask people questions that are kind of unexpected. I call it how's theweather like? When you move past the house the weather question right, peoplelearn a lot about themselves and it becomes a meaningful experience for them. It'slike, yeah, why did I become an artist? Right, let meconjure a story I haven't told in some time for this for you. Myneighbor in at the airport here. So that kind of goes into something Iwanted to explore with you, which is you travel a ton, you speaka ton. I've Seen Your Business Card basket in your youtube videos. Youdon't get rid of business cards. I've seen your badge rack. I onlyhave one badge, by the way. It's from me. We did ourfirst ever event just earlier this month than it was. It is just awesome. So I only have spoken that nearly as much as you. How oftenyou travel and speak? It varies, but last year was a crazy Yar. I had three hundred thousand miles of travel last year, but I alsowent to Australia twice. I went to Hong Kong. I was in someEuropean country at some point. So this year, I just actually checked yesterday, is about the fact I just on American Airlines. I was at seventyfivezero miles this year already. So I'll easily cross a hundred thousand miles fora year, but it varies. So I've been home all week. Iam next week I'm in La twice. I'm speaking. I'm doing a commencementspeech for for a college at the end of next week, and so theseday trips here and there. So at all varies. It depends and Iturned down, you know, ninety percent of the request that I get tocome speak, mostly because the schedule. You can't, I can't clone myself, I can only be in one place at a time. But also I'mtrying to limit the amount that I travel because I have a family, Iwant to be home. I got projects, I got my youtube channel that Iwant to kind of crank on a little bit, but I also can'tpass up an opportunity to change what I say change minds, right. That'sreally I don't go speak to make myself feel better. I'm an introvert.I don't go to say I can hear my own voice. I go becauseI'm trying to convince you of something, I'm trying to change your mind,and so my talks are persuasion talks. I try to change your mind or, at least for a very split second, give you a different point of view, a different perspective, and I can't. My favorite thing that someonecan say to me, and I just got this Linkedin, linkedin requests andyou know, in the introduction paragraph it's...

...a you know, Jamie, Iheard you speak nine months ago and that question that you ask is still botheringme today, like that's that to me a success? Give any specific techniqueor like where did you get your your kind of philosophy or approach with regardto persuasion in particular? Yeah, and you can tie that also to thequestion, because I also teach a communication class at the school that I helpstart. The thing is Coding Academy and Phoenix, and I was going inthere every couple of weeks and teaching ten graders communication skills and presentation skills andill you will get this question all time. How do you become a good speaker, a good presenter? And the answer is a very boring answer,which is you do presentations. That's it. You just you just do them andand that's how you get better. I don't get nervous when I thelast time I got nervous I spoke in the White House and east wing withGeorge Washington staring at the back of your neck. I was very nervous then, but I usually don't get nervous. I get excited about these presentations becauseI get to change people's minds and I like like being up on stage andtalking to people. But how you become persuasive to me is by sharing adifferent point of view, a different perspective through stories, right. And so, for example, one of the things that I'm focusing on lately is thisidea of digital skills. Right, how our students? We've given our studentsa past. We say to them, Oh, you're just born with technology, you just naturally know how to use technology, you're just around one technology, therefore you're an expert technology. We give it. We've given them apass and we've and we're that's harmful to them. They don't know how touse these tools. They don't know how to search, they don't know howto this, a stanfords that chosen this. The eighty percent of elementary school kidscan't tell you the difference between a sponsored website and a real news site. Right. So they don't not easy tools. And so I am atmy desk because I'm writing, I'm thinking, like what's how do I make peopleunderstand it's right? How? And usually it's by tying something to theirlife. And so I came up with this analogy, the best one Ican come up with, and I say it's like cars. All of youare brought home in a hospital, in a car. You Sat in thebackseat of that car, facing one way, then facing the other way, thenyou graduated to the booster seat, then you moved up to the frontseat. You spend your whole life in a car. Did any one ofyour parents say to you? Look, you were just born with cars.You just naturally know how to use a car because cars were around when youwere born. Here's a car. No, we taught them how to use cars. Were your parents taught you how to use a car? They gaveyou the rules of the road, they gave you the official rules and thenthey gave you the cultural rules right where you live. They gave you hownot to be a bad person, how to be offensive driver, how tobe a defensive driver, and then they testing you to make sure you knewhow to drive, and then they freaked out for the first year after youleft the house. Would buy yourself in that car, right, but forthat, to me, is the same thing. Just because they're born withtechnology, we just handing them the key, the keys and said, okay,you're good. They're not. So I try. My persuasion comes fromtrying to tell stories or trying to relate whatever concept I'm trying to build totheir lives so that they can see it from their point of view. Ilove the analogy as a way to connect with someone and again, as youoffered earlier, just to make people see something differently, to change the perspectivea little bit. Like, I know it is like that and that ismessed up. I have been thinking about it incorrectly. For people who arelistening. WHO HOSTS SPEAKERS? You know people, you know a lot ofpeople, put on events, either internal or external, and they invite guestsand whatever. Yeah, as someone who's spoken hundreds and hundreds and hundreds oftimes, yeah, what can someone do to make sure you have a greatexperience as a speaker at their event? Like, what could a host do? What could a company do? What could the people, you know,supporting the event do to make a better experience? That's a great question.No one's ever asked me that question before and it's something I've obviously given alot of thought to because it's my experience.

So no, that's a that's areally good question. No one's ever asked that question. So the penson what you're you know, if you are someone who is paying someone tocome speak, you know you have an expectation for that, right. Sothere's a whole process. I'm you know, if a speaker's bureau says hey,we somebody wants to hire you to go speak at this event, there'sthis kind of expectation about what you do with the person does and how youset the whole thing up. But if you are asking someone to come speakat your events for free or just covering their expenses, which happens to mea lot right because of the role that I'm in, there is things thatyou can do, even if you're not paying the person to how even ifyou are giving them a good experience, and the the greatest experiences I haveis when I show you know, you show up at midnight at a hotelthat they booked for you and you go up to your room and on yourroom is like a small bottle of wine and some nuts in the car thatsays Hey, welcome to Houston, thank you so much for coming. Thatjust means so much, right. That's like all these people care that I'mhere and they're thankful that I'm here. That's one example something that you cando. Another thing I always find interesting is at the end of your talk. It most of the time you don't get anything, specially if you're doingit for free, for your time. And I love when someone hands me, you know, a bag of gifts, and I don't mean like expensive things, I mean like a t shirt from your company or, you know, a new speaker or whatever it is, but something, something that says Ithought about you speaking here, I thank you for you speaking here.Here's a little gift for you that you that remind you of this experience.Right like. That happens a lot, but it happens less than you wouldthink, and so those types of like I guess they all fall into thesame category, right, which is I'm thanking you and thinking of you inthis process. And and here you go. You know, something else could behey, when do you come in? And we want to arrange for acar servers to pick you up right, like just the little things that youcan do to say I'm thinking about you, sacrifice in your time andyour energy and your and your passions to come do this. Those are alwaysgreat. I love it. It's just it is really it's the gift ofattention. Yeah, forethought and a little bit of the time that goes intoit. It doesn't have to be expensive and it works not just for speakersbut for anyone. They's just showing people that you care. Hey, thishas been awesome. Yeah, I could go a lot longer, but weboth have other things we have to do today and I've no idea where weare on time. But I'm going to close with you where I always closerelationships are our number one core values here at bombomb and on the show,and so I like to give you the chance to thank or mention someone who'shad a positive impact on your life or your career and give a shout outto a company that's doing customer experience really well. You already did it offthe top, but maybe the one sure you know, and that's a that'sgreat that you're able to do that and I you know. So for me, I and it's a group of people right, it's the educators in mylife. Specifically, when I think about educators in my life, I thinkabout Mrs Riddick and fourth grade, and the reason why I think about heris because I still remember handing her my first kind of carent events paper andand I would skate by with school work and I do the bare minimum andI would always pass or at least get bees. I didn't care that much. But she was the first teacher who took one of my current event papers. This is fourth grade, and like there we was so much read onthat I thought she spilled like blood on this thing. Right. So shehanded it back to me and she's she can give me a gray she goes, this isn't good enough and then just walked away from me, like likeshe knew that I knew it wasn't good enough, right, and that thatjust pissed me off and I'm like, Oh yeah, I can do betterthan this, I'll show you. And so educators like that. There's mymath teacher in ninth grade. People think they're terrible at math. They don'tknow math. My math teacher ninth grade was entertaining. He was totally intoit. He showed me the Matrix,...

...right, what I call Matt like. He said something and I've kind of made it my own since then.But the fact that math is everything. Right, if you understand math,you understand the matrix. Everything has math in it. There's nothing that doesn'thave math in it. And when you see the world that way, fromthat perspect of that point of view, it does so much for you.So my teachers, my Fourth Grade Teacher, my ninth Grade Teacher, my collegeprofessor's. I often tell the story when I was in even in college, and I was going to graduate. I wanted to go to graduate school. One of my college professor said You should apply to the Kennedy School atHarvard and I said no, kids like me. I grew up in housekitchen, I grew up a single mom, I grew up on a welfare andfood stamps. I said kids like me can't go to Harvard. Iget eating a lot. I've at Harvard Right. Obviously I was wrong.I could have gone at Harvard. I would have done well at Harvard.I've spoken at Harvard, but I didn't know it at the time. Andso when I talked to students, I say pay attention to the educators andwhat they tell you because they know you really well. They're comparing you tothe hundreds of other people and students that they've met. So they're giving yougood feedbacks. So pay attention. So as a group, it's the educatorsin my life and that's why I'm so passionate about educators and teachers and theimpact that they can have, because when I saw one of the things Isay to teachers is that the impact that you have on students goes on forgenerations and generations and generations, because I have my kids and my kids aredoing well because of the same fourth grade teacher and a ninth grade teacher.That's the impact. So, as a group, it's the educators in mylife, someone who's given me a good customer experience. What you know,the example that I gave earlier is the polar pro example right, this ideathat we've built a relationship like you know, here's a free thing, because wethink that we're going to do business again in the future and I knowyou're going to buy more stuff from us. So here's a free thing. Anyorganization that does that, that gives you that kind of attention, thatgives you that kind of experience compared to a terrible experience that I had wasanother company that I won't name because you know, but that to me isa good customer experience, and so polar shout out to polar pro for whatwhat they've done. Another one, just in the same kind of category,is road microphones. They release the product, the wireless microphone that I've been usingthat if you watch my videos and they one of the the wind littleguard things falls off a lot. So when I told them that, theysaid send me, you know, give us your your mailing address. We'remaking a new one. Will send you a new one when it's out.That kind of like we're in this together for the long haul. Is thekind of experience that you're looking for and what I think the future generation isgoing to be looking for as well. I love it. I specially lovethis idea because we do this with software, right. So when people email usor call in with something that isn't working properly, because software is hardand it doesn't always work, you know, will put them on a list.You know, we'll communicate with them and then we'll put them on alist so when we make a resolve there, will reach back out. I've notheard that, a story like that for a tangible, physical product.That's really, really cool. The other thing too, and I I'll justexpand this for the for the common listener to this show. You know thisidea of teaching and educating you probably is Jamie was telling you this you're probablythinking back to some of the teachers in your life, but think also aboutyour opportunity to mentor formally or informally, the people that are in your organization, either on your team or not on your team. These impacts that youmake on them, they carry you forward in their life and in their experience. They carry the company's name forward and they are a representative of your warsand of your companies. As I you know, you hope some people stayforever, but you also need people to go, or they need to go, and so when they go off and do their next great thing, youcan be an important part of that and you'll never know the impact that youmake on all the people that you work with if you take care to paya little time and attention. Jamie, this has been awesome. For folksit aren't familiar with Google. I'm just...

...kidding. If people want to followup with you, what are a few ways you can follow up with you? Yes, so first twitter. I'm on twitter. It's at JCASAPO.Talk about customer as a customer service Rep told me five years ago, tenyears ago, when I learned this, when I said my user name wasJAC ASAP and she's she says back to me instantaneously. Oh, just callas soon as possible, and I'm like, I'm thirty five years old and I'venever thought about that. Right. So, so it's JC ASAP.By message button is open. Anyone in the world can send me a message. Linkedin is the same thing. It's Jac a sap or Jamie Casso.Reach out on Linkedin and I, as you mentioned a couple of times,and I thank you for that, I just launched a youtube channel on thisidea of, you know, advice and career advice and thing in perspective andI'm trying to bring up topics and I have a whole list of topics thatI'm going to be talking about on this channel and I'm trying to do itin a fun way while I'm traveling to wherever it is that I'm traveling fordifferent ideas and different topics. And so you can reach round subscribe on Youtubeas well. Same thing. It's JACASAP. Awesome and for folks, I againand you can just Google Jamie cassup and you'll find a bunch of keynotes. You want to learn about the future of work and go deeper into educationand technology, so much good stuff. I sincerely appreciate your time. Ienjoyed it. I know listeners enjoyed it as well, and I appreciate you. Yeah, and I enjoyed as well. Thanks for having me. A timelineby ray. Very fast, cool. Thanks so much. Have a greatafternoon. Thanks you to clear communication, human connection, higher conversion. Theseare just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sendingevery day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pickup the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improvecustomer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcombook. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the singlemost important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experiencefor your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right nowin your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (180)