The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

28. No, Your Customer Isn't Always Right w/ Jaime Casap

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today’s guest is Jaime Casap, Chief Education Evangelist at Google

Jaime helped launch G-Suite and other applications in schools, and he sincerely believes that education can disrupt poverty and transform lives.

In this episode, Jaime talks about what Google’s doing that didn’t seem possible five years ago, why he thinks the customer is always wrong, why “What do you want to be when you grow up?” is the wrong question, and how companies should prepare for the arrival of Generation Z.

If you think about GMO, Gmail was a solved this. You know, emails, a solved problem. No, it wasn't right. And so what we found where the problems in there? We didn't ask customers, Hey, you want a new email platform? Right, the chrome book was solving a problem. So so it's about identifying a problem and sometimes your customer doesn't know what the problem doesn't mean you sure and ask him. Doesn't mean sure and talk to him. I'm just saying that you got to go beyond that the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey, I am so glad you're with us on this episode of the customer experience podcast. I know you're going to be glad you're here to today we're talking about education, technology, innovation, generation Z and a whole lot more. Today's guest spent several years at accenture and Charles Schwab before joining Google, where he's been for more than a dozen years now. As the education evangelist, he helps launch g suite and Google APPs into schools and universities. He believes that education and technology can disrupt poverty and transform lives. Jamie cassup, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you very much. That's one of the best introductions I've ever heard. That great, you know. So we're all in the right place, so good. Hey, I have a bunch of questions that I know you're going to enjoy thinking about and talking about, but I'm going to start here where I start with every guest, which is your thoughts or your definition or characteristics. When I see customer experience. What comes to mind to you? Yeah, I think it's funny that you mentioned that, because I just had one of these. It's a delight. It's it's like your you feel great about the interaction. Right. So this idea of having this interaction, and I don't know if I can share the story. You can edit this out maybe if it's not appropriate, but I had one of these interactions with polar pro you know. As you know, I'm shooting these youtube videos and I bought these filters and I lost one of the caps for these really nice filters, and so I email polar pro and I said, Hey, I lost you know where can I order another one? I need another cap for my for my nd filter, and I like hey, we got a bunch of the office. Don't worry about it, will just send you one right. No, no charger shipping, no, nothing like that kind of experience is how I define really good customer experience. It's this idea of having a positive experience and they send me one and it's great and you know, and I couldn't be more delighted and I get to share those stories, right, and that's the whole point of having a good customer experiences, that you get to share those stories with other people. Yes, who it's there? I hear kind of two themes. One is kind of this frictionless thing, like Oh, that was easy ezier than I expected. And then too, is that I have a friend or and advocate over there. They just happen to sell filters and other related products. But it's this, we're in this with you. It's a relationship so good. So you've so much great content available online. So if anyone wants to see keynotes or a tedx talk or Jamie's YouTube channel. Just Google Jamie CASS UP, jaim E ce a sap. We might get into some of those teams. I highly recommend any of the keynotes. That said that, several of the people he spoken for of put up there. So we may not get deep into those teams. But I do want to start with this kind of competitive landscape situation. What are you in Google doing in education? That a kind of frustrates Microsoft and apple and be was maybe thought not to be able to be done. But five years ago, like you guys can't do that. Like what are you doing? So for folks who are listening, just some context, like what are you doing in the education space with Google? Yeah, and this is going to part of this is going to sound like a corny answer or some kind of corporate answer, but it's absolutely true. I've...

...going to go over thirteen years. I have no idea what apple and Microsoft are doing. I could, I don't care what they're doing. That's not what I focus on and this is a sounds like one of those answers, but it's absolutely true. All I care about our our users, right. All I care about the users that are using up our tools and being able to provide them the best experience and also to be able to take their ideas and take the experiences that they're having and use that to build whatever is that we're building. So that's the mindset that we have, that's the mindset my team has. And Look, Microsoft products are great, apple products are great. I haven't you know, I have an IPAD, I have lots of different types of tools. It's about finding the right tool for the right job. But what we focus on is being able to provide our users, and that's always a bad word into technology stakes, are customers, if you will, the best experience that they can have. And so when we launched Google APPS for education, it was this first. It was this tool for universities, because lots of people and lots of universities weren't giving their customers, their students, a good experience, and this was a way for them, for the universities, to give them a good experience. And so that's why Google APPs, that we now d call you, not called G suite, took off and did really well. But the thing I think that people thought we would never be able to do well, and is with the release of chrome books, the right they I think people thought that chrome books weren't going to be very successful or people would say, Hey, what are you doing? I don't understand what why are you getting into this? And again, if you think about what a chrome book can do in education, it has two really good benefits. Number one is it gives the individual good experience. Right, they bowed up. In a couple seconds, they're up and running. The battery last all day. You know, you have a simple experience. It's great. But the real benefit is for the administrators. And I used to have this joke that when I did these chrome book presentations, I used to say the day I dread the most out of any day of the year, the day I wish I could work, is December twenty five. And you get that puzzle. Look as to the summer twenty five. I'm like yes, because that's the day my inlaws get their new technology that I now have to implement. And If to colleges, educated people can't do this, can't implement technology. What is it like for an organization has a thousand people, tenzero people, Hundredzero people, and with the chrome book was able to do for those customers is be able to give them the tools that they needed to be able to launch a large number of devices and manage those devices, and I think that's why the chrome books have been successful. And so I think that we are in the education space because we build really cool tools and we have really cool platforms that can be used in education, and that's what we're doing. So in the two layers there you have this students, has customers, and you already listed a few very specific benefits of the chrome book there. But then, of course, did the decisionmaker or the buyer in this scenario is the administrator, and so you're providing easy implementation and back end reporting in these kinds of things for them. Yeah, no, it's more about like so when a student take that chrome book, that that administrator can control that chrome book? Can this determine what website says? Student can see there's no chance of virus is getting on these devices. So so when when they when you do a take home program, for example a Oneto one, take your machines home, you're not worried about all these other machines coming back and drop in a bunch of viruses and bugs into your system because you've basically extended the cool the school system to wherever those students are, because when they're using that device it's like they're using them at school. It's not like they're even if they connect through their home network, they're still going through the through the setup that you have for them. So it's you're still responsible for love it. Going to the going back to the you know, let's say,...

...a couple college educated parents. I bet they wish they had to say he's of implementation, just children's own devices. Before we get do a wide range of stuff, because you're a very interesting and expressive person. taught. Let's stay on. Let's stay on this, this evangelist role with Google a little bit. I did a chief of angelist series for another podcast with evangelist from apple and Amazon and inside and terminus. For you, what is the role of an evangelist? Me Just just give the quick ones over here. How did you find yourself in it? What are the benefits to Google and what might someone who's listening to this, you know, a salesperson or a marketer or a leader, like what or maybe some signs that they might need or want a similar role in their organization? Yeah, I know. So I think it's a great question. Because this is not something that I set out to do. This is not a job that I wanted. It just kind of turned into one, and I think that's part of it too, is this organic growth. And for me I actually was listed. You know, I listened to myself. When we launch Google, ask education. I was working with universities and I was working with K twelve institutions. I was like education manager a google or something like that. Right, our team was very small. We started out with two people, you know, at this point we have like three or four people. And I actually went into the presentation in Michigan and the executive for technology for the State of Michigan was in this presentation and he came up to me after my presentation and he's like you're not. I don't know what your title is, but you're not. Whatever your title is, you are an evangelist right. You are bringing good news and and I'm like Oh, okay, and so it kind of stuck and it kind of grew from that and, as you mentioned, in the technology space there's lots of these evangelist roles. But for me, I think I'd made a decision ten years ago where I didn't want to be a salesperson, and there's nothing wrong with being a salesperson. I just think there's a place in time for that. I wanted to have a point of view, I wanted to have a perspective so I can get up on stage and talk about technology and education and generation Z in the future of work and has nothing to do with Google. Has To do with these ideas, in these concepts. I believe, obviously, that Google builds the best tools, or I wouldn't be working there. And so I think that's the tie in. And so an evangelist isn't about, you know, being a sales pitch person for your products and services, and evangelist is there to bring good news to people. And for me, the can use like one of the things that I say in my presentation, because people in education here this all the time. They hear this idea that education is broken, that it doesn't work, which is a funny concept considering that we've built the superpower of a nation on the back of the education system that we built in this country. Right and by the way, it's also worked for millions and millions and millions and millions of people, and I get and has it worked for everyone? Absolutely not. But it's a different conversation to say hey, education is broken, everything you do sucks and you should go away. Compare that to look what we need to do is bring education to the next level. Education has been very successful for the last hundred and fifty years. Now we need to look at the future and ask ourselves and do what our forefathers and education did and ask ourselves what's the right education system for the future that we face. So it becomes a calling rather than a defensive mechanism that people tend to I get it. You've spend your whole life and career working in a space and someone comes in from the outside and tells you that you're terrible. It's a so I think it's the approach right. So to me, I always a part of the way you think you you talked about my youtube videos, is to have a different perspective, to have a different point of view that doesn't necessary fall in line with the conventional wisdom and to be an advocate, even if sometimes it's against what your company's doing or against the policy or an idea. So it's sticking to those principles and having a perspective and a point of view. I love the...

...constructive approach. There of you know there is a better way to do this. Then that's all broken. Right, there's nothing constructive about that's all broken in addition to it being just a gross exaggeration. Sure, you flip another question on its head. So I just want your thoughts or feedback on this. So in when your presentations, you offer what do you want to be when you grow up as the wrong question. Yeah, and and flip it and say what problem do you want to solve and offer that as a better question. And for me as someone who, Gosh, it's been several years since I finished a master's degree, which was several years after an undergraduate bachelor's degree and which was, you know, four years after a high school education. For me that it's super resonated for me within my own job, and I know the folks listening will kind of like this contrast to speak a little bit to how you arrived at this thought and how you how you talk about it. Yeah, and again, this is using the same kind of model, which is you know, I talked to students and I asked students, Hey, how many of you have been asked what you want to be when you grow up, and every single hand goes up and or I say to my audience, is it was a great question. Again, it was a very good question for a very long time. When we have like a hundred jobs, when jobs are pretty stable, when you can do an assessment in fourth grade about what you were going to do in a future, and mine was an irs agent, we had jobs that were pretty stabled. Change happen much slower back then. That question made sense. Now we need to come up with a new question, given a fit, given what we face. Sixty five percent of the jobs of the future don't exist today. Jobs the constantly shifting and changing much faster than ever before. I'm working for a company you that then exist twenty years ago, right. So the better question is, or the new question, if you will, is what problem do you want to solve? What's the problem that spins in your head? And, by the way, there's other part to that, which is how do you want to solve that problem? How do you want to take the skills and the passions? But of what you had to solve that problem, because there's tenzero ways to solve a problem. What's your angle on it? What's your perspective, what's your point of view on solving that problem. Because if you, if I was a student, and you said and I said you, Hey, I want to I want to solve climate change, your first instinct does an adult, might be to come to me and say, Hey, you need to be a scientist, you need go study science. But if I'm a videographer, if I'm a film producer, if I'm someone who likes to take photographs, the way I I might solve that problem is to go document climate change or to go educate other people about climate and there's lots of ways to solve a problem. So what problem you want to solve? How do you want to solve it? And then you can start thinking about what do you need to learn? What are the knowledge, the skills and your abilities you need to have to solve that problem, and how can you start building those knowledge, skills and abilities? And I think this is where it comes in, where today you have the whole world that your fingertips right you that that's the good news, is that you can learn anything today at a speed that's never been possible before. What classes can you take online, offline, white at MIT, at Stanford, at Harvard? What you know? WHO's solving that problem today and how do you connect with them? How what? I had a student reach out to me a couple of days ago and she's like, Hey, I want to solve the education problem. Here's my angle on it. Love to talk to you absolutely. Let's set up a card. I'll talk to you right. So. So, there's so many different ways to think about this, but it's basically based on I'm I'm sure you've read Daniel Pink's book drive right about what motivates all of us as human beings. It's the same three things. Purpose or problem do you want to solve? Autonomy, how do you want to solve it? And mastering. What do you need to learn to solve that problem? That's where the whole package comes from. So good. I love that translation of the book. I haven't. You know, they resonate with you and if anyone has not read the book it's a highly recommended read. Or there's a really nice animated video that's a twelve minute introduction to the core concepts of it. I haven't.

I didn't make that connection so easily. I love what you did with that. The customer is always wrong. Do you have any thought this star? Sorry, moving on to a new idea, new topic here. The customers always wrong. Will talk about that? Yeah, so I this idea that the you know, this old again old model about the customers always right. I always found that as fascinating. I always found that that idea to be not, first of all, not true. Like what does it's the old Henry Henry Ford quote. Right, if I ask my customers what they wanted, they'd ask for a faster horse. Right. Like sometimes your customers don't know what they want and it's better to solve their problems. And so if you focus on a customer and try to solve their problems or pre able to create stuff that that makes their life easier, they might not always know what's right, and so it's being able to do that, and you do that through observation, through data collection, through as. I'll give you an example. The one of the things that I was working with the university, with the Arizona State University, with the their union people. Right, they had a fire, they burned down part of the Union. So they were rebuilding and they wanted by help and thinking about what it should look like. What are the what are the things that they need to build? And I always think about asking customers, the students, right, like a passive, aggressive suggestion box, right, like like ask you know what they want. They might give you an answer, but that might not be the right answer, or they might just give an answer because you're asking for one. They might not have thought of it or they might not care about it. Is as much as you think. So what I suggested it was let's just watch them, let's just see what they do and what we found. We're students coming into the union with their care the end of their cord of their laptop, like looking everywhere for a plug. Right. They might not have said, hey, we want more outlets. That might not be top of rum eye. or we would see students coming in and it's the middle summer and they're wearing hoodies, with their hood on because the air conditioners too cold. Right. So we can observe and get to answers so much better than asking them what they what they want in that scenario. Gosh, it seems like you could ask them what problems they think they have as part of it as well. Yeah, it's supposed to ask him for the solution, ask them about their problems. Sure. Yeah, no, ask him. You know how what's your experience like that? There's nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that this idea that you know, you build what your customers want isn't necessarily like you know, if you think about Google, for example, as a company, not even because I work there, search was a solved problem when when Google started, right, we had alt this, we had Yahoo, we already had search intoes. Right. If you think about the chrome browser, right, the brows and anet browser was a solved issue. Right, we already hadn't. If you think about GMO, Gmail was a solved dish. You know, emails a solved problem? No, it wasn't. Right. And so what we found where the problems in there. We didn't ask customers, Hey, do you want a new email platform? Right, the chrome book was solving a problem. So so it's about identifying the problem. And sometimes your customer doesn't know what the problem doesn't mean you sure and ask him. Doesn't mean sure him, talk to him. I'm just saying that you got to go beyond that. Yep, and that's just that's the essence of an iterative and innovative approach. That these solve problems aren't actually necessarily solved. It all, even if the customer might feel like they are right by the way. Shark. You know, if you watch shark tank, I'm I love watching my wife and I love watching shark tank, and every time you sit there you're like why did I think of that? Or like, you know, like those, the solutions that some of those people have come up with were solutions two problems that you never identified. Right. So, how would you ever identify? Even though this clear act, you see the thing, you're like the Scrub Daddy, of course, right, like here's a gazillion dollar company, the guy created this thing and and you're like a you know, we've been watching dishes for a thousand years and this...

...guy came up with this idea and it solved the problem, lots of problems, and it was just brilliant. Like. So. So, yes, asking customers, talking to customers, absolutely, but observing them, watching them, you know, getting to know they're, what their problems are, by doing those things, is absolutely beneficial. So good. And for all the folks who are listening to work at software company's obvious. So your data can give you a lot of you know, if you can't stand in a student union and watch where people are coming and going and how they're behaving. You can still watch their behavior through feedback channels on how the software is being used and where they go and what they do and how long they spend there and all that new idea. Generation Z doesn't care nearly as much about satisfaction as they do about relationships. Yeah, yeah, so I've been speaking a lot about generation z and the things that they care about and I've been talking the mostly the universities and businesses that are about to face generation z right, whether they are potential customers of clients or even future workers. Here's an example. Three different studies shows showed me that seventy percent of generation Z doesn't want to work for you at all. Right, they want to do their own thing, and that is going to have a huge impact. Now when you and I your my your might not be as old as I am, but when I was a kid, if I wanted to start a business, I had to get an investment, I had to get a store front, I had to get equipment and material and whatever I was going to sell the customers had to be something that's common across the board, because I wanted to bring them. Most people into my store that took a lot of effort. Today we live in a longtail economy. You can create a niche about anything and focus on that specific niche and sell things from your basement, sell things from your from your garage. I can start a flat earth t shirt company and so hundreds of flat and well, unfortunately, thousands of flatter of teacher based on that like. So there's so many little niches that you can start in now that we live in this long tail that you didn't you don't have to have a solution for the common person. You can have a solution for a niche and and a problem solving issue for a niche and then focus on that. So to your point about you know so parted. So that's generation Z in terms of work and what they're looking for and what they want to be able to do and if they and this ties back to what you're saying, if they do want if they do work for your company, they want to have meaningful employment. They know that seventy percent of Americans are disengaged with the work. They know that this idea of status and what kind of car you drive and what kind of house you live and doesn't matter to them. They want experiences they want. They want to have a relationship, and so, whether they're going to work for you or whether they're one of your future customers, they want the relationship, they want the experience and they want to know that you're doing things in an ethical way. They want to know that you are doing the best you can for humanity and society, because this is the climate change generation. This is the problems are being generation. Right. So, Gretta, the girl in Norway or Switzerland, I always get those countries confused. She started environmental movements with students and she's got billions of students some hundreds of countries, protesting climate change on Fridays from school. She did this all from her home and she was just nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize and if she wins that will be two teenagers that have won the Nobel Peace Prize in the last five years. That's who this generation is. I love that you made the connection there between employees and customers, because the the theme is the same, it plays out the same this kind of you know something that I didn't expect, although in hindsight it makes perfect sense. In starting the podcasting out. You know, a few dozen conversations in is the relationship between the employee experience and the customer experience, how they both matter if you're going to attract and recruit and engage and retain this generation of workers. A lot of...

...these factors come to come into play. And so you recruit differently and you know, our Friday lunch here at the office looks and behaves a little bit differently for that nature of meaningful and purposeful employment. And, Oh, by the way, when you go down that road and you start installing these things in your business in a real tangible, practical, meaningful way, it's not just scratching the edge of a younger generation, it's good for everybody. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, and it's attractive to customers as well. Howard Stern as one of the best interviewers of all time. Yeah, these are great topics. The so. So I didn't just for you, by the way. Yeah, yeah, like I did a video. I did it one of my youtube videos is the joke is Howard Stern as a voice in my head and I was trying to make a point with that video, which is you have a voice in your head. Who is that voice in your head? And oftentimes we think that we're the voice in our head and we're not. Are. The voice in our head comes from our experience, lots of factors and for me Howard Stern was that voice my head since I was in high school. I've been listening to him from in high school and he is developed into one of the best interviewers of all time because he's engaged, like you are, in this conversation, in the conversation he's just not thinking about what the next question is, he's not thinking about, like, what the response as, he's not thinking about what he sounds like. He's asked some very stupid questions over the years and listening to him do interviews, but he gets to some really good answers and he gets some really good questions because he's listening, he's put and, as the said in the video, he's playing jazz and interview. He's going off whatever it is that you're saying and then taking that track and at the same time he's trying to understand not so much about, like what you do, but who you are and that those are important things. And I can't tell you how many times someone and a Howard Stern interview, how many times he makes news because somebody will reveal something and a Howard Stern interview. But I can't tell you how many interviewees have said I can't believe I'm about to say this is. Oh, I can't believe I just told you that, or I can't believe you knew that, and and they dive deep. The great one of the Great Stories is Colin O'Brien, who you think of is the spoofy guy on TV, who's a funny guy, and he interview and in the interview he talks about mental health and how he's the dealt with the pressure and just he's such a great interview and I feel like when I talk to people, when I talked on airplanes, for example, I don't get into this to the like where you from? I'm from New York, or I got a friend and you know Dan right like you, I don't like those conversations. I get into deep conversations about things because Howard stern has been the voice of my head all these erves. That reminds me of something I literally just engaged in on Linkedin. It was a quote of a guy who was on the podcasts sales coach with the trusted advisors. The name of his company, Gutting, Charles Green, and he said stop focusing so much on your elevator pitch and start focusing on your elevator question. As you were sharing your observations about Howard Stern, I was thinking about how valuable that approach is to a to the discovery process in a sales situation, where a good salesperson is going to ask meaningful questions, you know and truly listen, not just to move through the list of questions and take a note down so I know how to you know, I know what path to send them down, but but to truly listen. Again, getting back to to solving problems that the person may not know they have or you have a solution that they didn't anticipate. And then to hear you talk about the airplane made me think of that. Like elevator questions. Did of elevator pitch, like what roads do you like to go down with strangers on airplanes? Yeah, so, I that's a great exact I don't so I have these giant headphones. People Confuse me because I'm in the public space and because I'm...

...not a lot because I do a lot of presentations. They think I'm an extrovert and I'm not an extrovert, I'm an introvert. I like the best time in my life is when I like all week I've been home and I will sit in my studio and not leave, like I love being in here. And because of that, I when I travel, I have giant headphones on and I am and I don't usually talk to people, but if I get into a conversation, at the end of the conversation we're either friends or I have Your Business Card, you have mine and we're connecting and because I try to get into these de conversations. So, for example, I said a friend of mine, she's an artist in Pittsburgh. I met her on an airplane and she had was shoe sitting next to me and her boots were all painted it up right. There were like all like drops of paint. So obviously she was an artist, and so I looked at her and I saw her boots and I said, Hey, I think you got something on your boot right, like as a joke, and that started into you know, you think, and we got into like and then she'll say she'll say I'm an artist and I'm like, you know, like what, like finger painting, so I tried to be sarcastic and blunt and funny and I skip by the like what's the weather like in Texas? Like we don't get into that. I try to get a look. Did you always want to be an artist? That like how will show me what your work looks like. Well, why did you do it this way? So I get into these deeper conversations with people and that my relationships with people have started on our planes because we get into those deep conversations. So good specific insights for sales and for customer success. They're really for anyone work in a professional capacity. Be sincerely interested in the people around you. A people love to talk about themselves and be you're going to learn a ton by engaging people in unique ways. The other thing that I find when you ask people questions that are kind of unexpected. I call it how's the weather like? When you move past the house the weather question right, people learn a lot about themselves and it becomes a meaningful experience for them. It's like, yeah, why did I become an artist? Right, let me conjure a story I haven't told in some time for this for you. My neighbor in at the airport here. So that kind of goes into something I wanted to explore with you, which is you travel a ton, you speak a ton. I've Seen Your Business Card basket in your youtube videos. You don't get rid of business cards. I've seen your badge rack. I only have one badge, by the way. It's from me. We did our first ever event just earlier this month than it was. It is just awesome. So I only have spoken that nearly as much as you. How often you travel and speak? It varies, but last year was a crazy Yar. I had three hundred thousand miles of travel last year, but I also went to Australia twice. I went to Hong Kong. I was in some European country at some point. So this year, I just actually checked yesterday, is about the fact I just on American Airlines. I was at seventy fivezero miles this year already. So I'll easily cross a hundred thousand miles for a year, but it varies. So I've been home all week. I am next week I'm in La twice. I'm speaking. I'm doing a commencement speech for for a college at the end of next week, and so these day trips here and there. So at all varies. It depends and I turned down, you know, ninety percent of the request that I get to come speak, mostly because the schedule. You can't, I can't clone myself, I can only be in one place at a time. But also I'm trying to limit the amount that I travel because I have a family, I want to be home. I got projects, I got my youtube channel that I want to kind of crank on a little bit, but I also can't pass up an opportunity to change what I say change minds, right. That's really I don't go speak to make myself feel better. I'm an introvert. I don't go to say I can hear my own voice. I go because I'm trying to convince you of something, I'm trying to change your mind, and so my talks are persuasion talks. I try to change your mind or, at least for a very split second, give you a different point of view, a different perspective, and I can't. My favorite thing that someone can say to me, and I just got this Linkedin, linkedin requests and you know, in the introduction paragraph it's...

...a you know, Jamie, I heard you speak nine months ago and that question that you ask is still bothering me today, like that's that to me a success? Give any specific technique or like where did you get your your kind of philosophy or approach with regard to persuasion in particular? Yeah, and you can tie that also to the question, because I also teach a communication class at the school that I help start. The thing is Coding Academy and Phoenix, and I was going in there every couple of weeks and teaching ten graders communication skills and presentation skills and ill you will get this question all time. How do you become a good speaker, a good presenter? And the answer is a very boring answer, which is you do presentations. That's it. You just you just do them and and that's how you get better. I don't get nervous when I the last time I got nervous I spoke in the White House and east wing with George Washington staring at the back of your neck. I was very nervous then, but I usually don't get nervous. I get excited about these presentations because I get to change people's minds and I like like being up on stage and talking to people. But how you become persuasive to me is by sharing a different point of view, a different perspective through stories, right. And so, for example, one of the things that I'm focusing on lately is this idea of digital skills. Right, how our students? We've given our students a past. We say to them, Oh, you're just born with technology, you just naturally know how to use technology, you're just around one technology, therefore you're an expert technology. We give it. We've given them a pass and we've and we're that's harmful to them. They don't know how to use these tools. They don't know how to search, they don't know how to this, a stanfords that chosen this. The eighty percent of elementary school kids can't tell you the difference between a sponsored website and a real news site. Right. So they don't not easy tools. And so I am at my desk because I'm writing, I'm thinking, like what's how do I make people understand it's right? How? And usually it's by tying something to their life. And so I came up with this analogy, the best one I can come up with, and I say it's like cars. All of you are brought home in a hospital, in a car. You Sat in the backseat of that car, facing one way, then facing the other way, then you graduated to the booster seat, then you moved up to the front seat. You spend your whole life in a car. Did any one of your parents say to you? Look, you were just born with cars. You just naturally know how to use a car because cars were around when you were born. Here's a car. No, we taught them how to use cars. Were your parents taught you how to use a car? They gave you the rules of the road, they gave you the official rules and then they gave you the cultural rules right where you live. They gave you how not to be a bad person, how to be offensive driver, how to be a defensive driver, and then they testing you to make sure you knew how to drive, and then they freaked out for the first year after you left the house. Would buy yourself in that car, right, but for that, to me, is the same thing. Just because they're born with technology, we just handing them the key, the keys and said, okay, you're good. They're not. So I try. My persuasion comes from trying to tell stories or trying to relate whatever concept I'm trying to build to their lives so that they can see it from their point of view. I love the analogy as a way to connect with someone and again, as you offered earlier, just to make people see something differently, to change the perspective a little bit. Like, I know it is like that and that is messed up. I have been thinking about it incorrectly. For people who are listening. WHO HOSTS SPEAKERS? You know people, you know a lot of people, put on events, either internal or external, and they invite guests and whatever. Yeah, as someone who's spoken hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times, yeah, what can someone do to make sure you have a great experience as a speaker at their event? Like, what could a host do? What could a company do? What could the people, you know, supporting the event do to make a better experience? That's a great question. No one's ever asked me that question before and it's something I've obviously given a lot of thought to because it's my experience.

So no, that's a that's a really good question. No one's ever asked that question. So the pens on what you're you know, if you are someone who is paying someone to come speak, you know you have an expectation for that, right. So there's a whole process. I'm you know, if a speaker's bureau says hey, we somebody wants to hire you to go speak at this event, there's this kind of expectation about what you do with the person does and how you set the whole thing up. But if you are asking someone to come speak at your events for free or just covering their expenses, which happens to me a lot right because of the role that I'm in, there is things that you can do, even if you're not paying the person to how even if you are giving them a good experience, and the the greatest experiences I have is when I show you know, you show up at midnight at a hotel that they booked for you and you go up to your room and on your room is like a small bottle of wine and some nuts in the car that says Hey, welcome to Houston, thank you so much for coming. That just means so much, right. That's like all these people care that I'm here and they're thankful that I'm here. That's one example something that you can do. Another thing I always find interesting is at the end of your talk. It most of the time you don't get anything, specially if you're doing it for free, for your time. And I love when someone hands me, you know, a bag of gifts, and I don't mean like expensive things, I mean like a t shirt from your company or, you know, a new speaker or whatever it is, but something, something that says I thought about you speaking here, I thank you for you speaking here. Here's a little gift for you that you that remind you of this experience. Right like. That happens a lot, but it happens less than you would think, and so those types of like I guess they all fall into the same category, right, which is I'm thanking you and thinking of you in this process. And and here you go. You know, something else could be hey, when do you come in? And we want to arrange for a car servers to pick you up right, like just the little things that you can do to say I'm thinking about you, sacrifice in your time and your energy and your and your passions to come do this. Those are always great. I love it. It's just it is really it's the gift of attention. Yeah, forethought and a little bit of the time that goes into it. It doesn't have to be expensive and it works not just for speakers but for anyone. They's just showing people that you care. Hey, this has been awesome. Yeah, I could go a lot longer, but we both have other things we have to do today and I've no idea where we are on time. But I'm going to close with you where I always close relationships are our number one core values here at bombomb and on the show, and so I like to give you the chance to thank or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or your career and give a shout out to a company that's doing customer experience really well. You already did it off the top, but maybe the one sure you know, and that's a that's great that you're able to do that and I you know. So for me, I and it's a group of people right, it's the educators in my life. Specifically, when I think about educators in my life, I think about Mrs Riddick and fourth grade, and the reason why I think about her is because I still remember handing her my first kind of carent events paper and and I would skate by with school work and I do the bare minimum and I would always pass or at least get bees. I didn't care that much. But she was the first teacher who took one of my current event papers. This is fourth grade, and like there we was so much read on that I thought she spilled like blood on this thing. Right. So she handed it back to me and she's she can give me a gray she goes, this isn't good enough and then just walked away from me, like like she knew that I knew it wasn't good enough, right, and that that just pissed me off and I'm like, Oh yeah, I can do better than this, I'll show you. And so educators like that. There's my math teacher in ninth grade. People think they're terrible at math. They don't know math. My math teacher ninth grade was entertaining. He was totally into it. He showed me the Matrix,...

...right, what I call Matt like. He said something and I've kind of made it my own since then. But the fact that math is everything. Right, if you understand math, you understand the matrix. Everything has math in it. There's nothing that doesn't have math in it. And when you see the world that way, from that perspect of that point of view, it does so much for you. So my teachers, my Fourth Grade Teacher, my ninth Grade Teacher, my college professor's. I often tell the story when I was in even in college, and I was going to graduate. I wanted to go to graduate school. One of my college professor said You should apply to the Kennedy School at Harvard and I said no, kids like me. I grew up in house kitchen, I grew up a single mom, I grew up on a welfare and food stamps. I said kids like me can't go to Harvard. I get eating a lot. I've at Harvard Right. Obviously I was wrong. I could have gone at Harvard. I would have done well at Harvard. I've spoken at Harvard, but I didn't know it at the time. And so when I talked to students, I say pay attention to the educators and what they tell you because they know you really well. They're comparing you to the hundreds of other people and students that they've met. So they're giving you good feedbacks. So pay attention. So as a group, it's the educators in my life and that's why I'm so passionate about educators and teachers and the impact that they can have, because when I saw one of the things I say to teachers is that the impact that you have on students goes on for generations and generations and generations, because I have my kids and my kids are doing well because of the same fourth grade teacher and a ninth grade teacher. That's the impact. So, as a group, it's the educators in my life, someone who's given me a good customer experience. What you know, the example that I gave earlier is the polar pro example right, this idea that we've built a relationship like you know, here's a free thing, because we think that we're going to do business again in the future and I know you're going to buy more stuff from us. So here's a free thing. Any organization that does that, that gives you that kind of attention, that gives you that kind of experience compared to a terrible experience that I had was another company that I won't name because you know, but that to me is a good customer experience, and so polar shout out to polar pro for what what they've done. Another one, just in the same kind of category, is road microphones. They release the product, the wireless microphone that I've been using that if you watch my videos and they one of the the wind little guard things falls off a lot. So when I told them that, they said send me, you know, give us your your mailing address. We're making a new one. Will send you a new one when it's out. That kind of like we're in this together for the long haul. Is the kind of experience that you're looking for and what I think the future generation is going to be looking for as well. I love it. I specially love this idea because we do this with software, right. So when people email us or call in with something that isn't working properly, because software is hard and it doesn't always work, you know, will put them on a list. You know, we'll communicate with them and then we'll put them on a list so when we make a resolve there, will reach back out. I've not heard that, a story like that for a tangible, physical product. That's really, really cool. The other thing too, and I I'll just expand this for the for the common listener to this show. You know this idea of teaching and educating you probably is Jamie was telling you this you're probably thinking back to some of the teachers in your life, but think also about your opportunity to mentor formally or informally, the people that are in your organization, either on your team or not on your team. These impacts that you make on them, they carry you forward in their life and in their experience. They carry the company's name forward and they are a representative of your wars and of your companies. As I you know, you hope some people stay forever, but you also need people to go, or they need to go, and so when they go off and do their next great thing, you can be an important part of that and you'll never know the impact that you make on all the people that you work with if you take care to pay a little time and attention. Jamie, this has been awesome. For folks it aren't familiar with Google. I'm just...

...kidding. If people want to follow up with you, what are a few ways you can follow up with you? Yes, so first twitter. I'm on twitter. It's at JCASAPO. Talk about customer as a customer service Rep told me five years ago, ten years ago, when I learned this, when I said my user name was JAC ASAP and she's she says back to me instantaneously. Oh, just call as soon as possible, and I'm like, I'm thirty five years old and I've never thought about that. Right. So, so it's JC ASAP. By message button is open. Anyone in the world can send me a message. Linkedin is the same thing. It's Jac a sap or Jamie Casso. Reach out on Linkedin and I, as you mentioned a couple of times, and I thank you for that, I just launched a youtube channel on this idea of, you know, advice and career advice and thing in perspective and I'm trying to bring up topics and I have a whole list of topics that I'm going to be talking about on this channel and I'm trying to do it in a fun way while I'm traveling to wherever it is that I'm traveling for different ideas and different topics. And so you can reach round subscribe on Youtube as well. Same thing. It's JACASAP. Awesome and for folks, I again and you can just Google Jamie cassup and you'll find a bunch of keynotes. You want to learn about the future of work and go deeper into education and technology, so much good stuff. I sincerely appreciate your time. I enjoyed it. I know listeners enjoyed it as well, and I appreciate you. Yeah, and I enjoyed as well. Thanks for having me. A timeline by ray. Very fast, cool. Thanks so much. Have a great afternoon. Thanks you to clear communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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