The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

29. Making B2B Marketing More Personal w/ Brett Chester

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Most companies forget that an actual person is on the other end of their marketing campaigns. Brett’s experience working with companies all around the globe to help them improve their marketing reminds listeners that every touchpoint is going to reach a human at some point. The better equipped you are to ask smart questions, the more effective your customer’s journey will be, and the more sales you will make. 

As a customer acquisition expert and the VP of Marketing for SiteTracker, Brett shares his secrets to making customers want to engage with your company through asking the right questions, and personalizing the marketing process.

He reflects on his experiences working with major clients around the globe and informs listeners on how they can be more effective marketers. 

...witted to be celebrating the individuals thata successful in order for us, as market has to recognize and learn fromthe challenges that customers are experiencing. The single most important thing you can dotoday is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn howsales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes andexceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experiencepodcast. Here's your host, Ethan Beute. Hey, thanks so much for clickingplay on this episode of the Customer Experience Podcast. Today we're talking demandJin and growth marketing. We're talking customer acquisition and nurturing. Today's guest isa selfdescribed marketing Geek. He's launched an advertising start up and worked at traditionalAD agencies in Australia. He was the customer Acquisitions Manager for Europe, theMiddle East and Africa for a chain of online casinos, and he's presently inthe Silicon Valley as vice president of marketing at site tracker, a project managementplatform for critical infrastructure like telecom utilities, renewable energy and smart cities. Retchester. Welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you so much for having andit sounds like I've had an amazing and illustratus career. It seems like it'sgone past. Why so fast? That's good. That's is it is.It always looks that way in hindsight. It really is cool. I lovethat's one of the most fun things about doing the podcast is obviously connecting withfolks like you directly and allowing other people to listen in on the conversation,but even the kind of the research phase alone and see the shape in thearc of different careers and and how people find themselves. I feel like justthe way you talk about your works, I'm excited to speak about it withyou than we the way you write about your work. It feels like you'reabsolutely doing the right thing and that it that really lights you up. Thankyou so much. It does, believe...

...it another I started off at lawschool and I had the law so much and was sitting on a beach andSonny, Sydney, Australia, and that's how I fell into marketing. Sothere's a chance for anyone out there. You know what, before we getto my standard opening question, look, what was the moment, like whatwas the flip there where you said I'm out in it? Who did youdisappoint in that process? Did Not disappointing that process. I was on trackto be the youngest barrister in Australia's history actually. So, aside from disappointingmy family, I didn't really end up disappointing them over the long time actually, now that I think about it, yea. But I was literally standingat the Little Bitch in Sydney, Australia, Cold Camp Cove, which is justa harbor beach, and I was introduced to somebody who said, hey, we're looking for someone that's pretty smart to come in and think about marketingchallenges, and my favorite subject at a university was a marketing subject, andI thought, okay, like, I'm going and have a chat, seewhat happens, and that was that was my start in online casinos. WhereI stand in marketing? Back then it was really interesting. Demand Marketing meantsending a million CDs to a suburb in London and seeing how many people wouldrespond, and that was always obviously associated with a code of some description sowe could attribute it back and you'd have to wait two months before you sawsome results. Nowadays, of course, we can do everything in real timeand it's that discipline that I created back then that drives the success that Ihave now. That's awesome. I it is I call the shipping out ofCDs. That's obviously the the AOL model, exactly most things. I am wonderhow many millions of pieces they sent. So, before we go any farther, I like to start with with getting folks to kind of talk aboutcustomer experience. When I see customer experience, what does that mean to you?What are some of its characteristics? How do you think about it?Yeah, customer experience for me is the...

...whole life cycle of engaging with thebrand. You know, there's not a single touch point or channel that weshould ever ignore when it comes to customer experience. If you think about it, you've got everything from the first touch by walked part us to store andsmelt it, all the way through to the follow up email after I've boughtsomething because I wanted the receipt sent to my email rather than to me inperson. I think that it's not just one single point of touch and thechallenge, specifically for me as a marketer, when I think about it is,you know, how do I make sure that all of those touch pointsare considered when we're building campaigns anywhere? So, you know, if you'reout there thinking about customer experience, just remember that there's somebody at the otherend of that thought process that you're trying to not only inspire to perform anaction but to engage with you at the most human level, and that's,you know, really difficult. In Betab software, which is where I work, you know, I've had a raft of experiences, obviously from online casinos, where we're speaking immediately with somebody WHO's trying to engage in an activity,all the way through to, you know, be to be marketing, where we'retrying to solve for problems that those people have that they might not necessarilyagree they have or want to admit having. So every single time that you touchthat person is a time for you to be selling, and I thinkit's a golden gecko quote. who wasn't it always be selling or always beclosing, something like that, but you need to remember the other person theother end of the spectrum that you're talking with. Love it. That's athat's a really popular theme in general, I've seen it for several years now, is like be to be BTC. Really it's all just age to age, human to human exactly, which is a really healthy attitude. And thenthe other thing you offered there in particular is that having some foresight in imaginingthat the touch points in advance is always really helpful. You'll never get itcompletely because you know it's going to people...

...touch point. But so before wego farther for context, just talk a little bit about site tracker, reallyinteresting platform. I especially I was interested the way you talked about, youknow, problem they might not know they have or one they might not notlike to talk about or acknowledge. And then the other side of that toois you offer a solution that they might not know is available. It's aproblem they're just going to continue suffering with. You know it not imagine that there'sa solution available. So talk about site tracker in the work that youguys are doing as a team there. Yeah, it's it's a really interestingproduct and a really interesting space. I've had the pleasure of working across acouple of different startups and this is the first startup that I've been at wherewe've had not only amazing product market fit but an amazing management to aim tosupport it, and so obviously our growth numbers reflect that. But essentially whatwe do is we are a project and asset management platform. So if youimagine one of our customers as a company called Verizon, you've probably heard ofthem, and what we do for Verizon is allow them to deploy and maintaintheir network so that we can all make telephone call walls and watch Netflix onthe go. So what that means is that they have mobile cell towers andalong with Mobile Cell Towers they have small cells and of course that's what's supposedlygoing to be powering G which is the new wave of technology that's coming downthe pipeline. And what we allow them to do is make sure that thedeployment of all of those assets, that the small cells or the tower antennas, get put at the right place at the right time so that they canhit their road map and that they can do it efficiently and effectively. Soit's a really interesting challenge and it's quite fulfilling to know that where you knowpowering critical infrastructure for the country, but at the same time, if you'rea project manager that started out twenty years ago in the deployment of Cell Towersfor verizon or any of the manifestations of...

...that company over the last twenty years, you probably would have been working in a spreadsheet of some description, andfor the longest time that basically meant that you'd build out this two hundred linechart that would say I do this and you do that and maybe, ifyou were lucky, you had a project management software like Microsoft project and you'dassign a gang chart to it so you can share that with your boss.But in reality, the world that we're moving into now, where we're goingfrom two hundred thousand towers that supported the infrastructure in the US to eight hundredthousand small cells over the next five years. So I'll say that again. Twentyyears, two hundred thousand flowers, five years eight hundred thousand small cells. That's a lot of work. So the inevitable consequences is that people arefalling behind, they're not able to do the deployments that they need to do. Thankfully, verizons one of our customers, and so they're deploying on time andon budget, most importantly on budget, and they're bringing their cell towers ona much faster than anybody else, which basically means the fulfilling their promiseto their customers, and we're helping them do that. So it's quite rewardingand that's happening across all sorts of different businesses and the utility space and inAlternative Energy v Charging and, believe it or not, party cities one ofour customers because they need to spring up new stores when Halloween comes around.And guess what, it's a repeatable task that's super easy for you to completein our platform. So it's really rewarding and a great software. So good. I hear then, or I imagine, that it's a relatively complex sale andit probably has a nice medium size sales cycle soon for you, asVP of marketing, having just come off that definition of customer experience, inknowing that it's all the touch points. We're a few for a complex sale, for for a problem people might not...

...know that there's a solution for whatare a handful of the key moments in the life cycle or key moments inthe experience that you like to really make sure our well managed in and welldelivered. Yeah, it's a great question and I think I'll answer it withthe question that I ask myself all the time, which is, if thereare people out there suffering with the problem and they don't know that they necessarilyhave that problem, how do we introduce that concept to them? And that'sthat's a challenge for be to be market as everywhere. Right. No onewakes up in the morning and says I need a project management solution. I'vebeen doing this in next cell for twenty years. I need to change.Unless that's a brand new business or it's a transfer of knowledge from one companyto another. It's not really the the day that somebody wakes up and goesthis is what I need, I'm going to search for it in Google.So it's quite hard for you to think outside that paradigm if you're not usedto it. So the way I like to think about this is in acouple of different ways. The first is let's create some awareness, let's getit out there, let's get this thought process out there, and I'm notsure when this is going to air, but we're releasing a campaign next Mondaywhich is talking about being a hero of change and literally about empowering people atcompanies like the ones we're targeting to be heroes of change, to accept thatthey have an opportunity to help their business out and to step up and raisetheir hands, because one of the big barriers is is that I don't wantto say anything. Why would I buck the status quote? So making peoplefeel empowered that they can change the status quote is super important for us,and creating that awareness that there is a problem is obviously aligned with that.So what I'm thinking about there the types of marketing opportunities and challenges we haveand how that relates to customer experience. I want to make sure that wehave both the awareness problem checked off as...

...well as the experience checked off.And Yeah, what does that mean for us next week, on Monday,when we launch this campaign? It means that, quite literally, we're goingto be at a show. We're going to have the best booth that anyonehas at that showed by far, and I don't say that in an arrogantway, just that I can see the effort that we've put into it andI know that it's going to be the best booth and to the most minutedetail. At that booth we've got hero packs for these heroes of changed totake away with them very, very targeted messages. Inside that pack is likea Cape, quite literally, with our logo on it, so people canrun around like lunatics talking about how they're a hero of change. But,more actionably, we've actually gotten to the granular details where we've said, howcan I take my learnings from this event and action them when I get back? So we've given them a step by step guide on things that they needto do. So again, what I'm thinking about is activating people to think. This is what it is that my challenge is be giving them a anexperience that they can take away with actionable steps. So what I've done isactually sitting there their shoes say well, I'm at a show, I'm atan event. It could be a boondoggle where I could just sit around andhave a couple of beers, or I could actually take something away from this. So, you know, we've thought about all the little details, fromthe shade of grass that we've got on our booth, we've got some beautifulbig green walls to the fragrance that were actually putting in the booth so thatwe make feel people feel welcome and at home. So it's all about theexperience. It's about the end to end cycle and putting yourself in the shoesof your buyer to let them know that you know there's a solution for themout there. I think one of the most valuable and important things you sharethere is the idea that your customer is the hero and that you are thereto equip and empower them to be successful. Exactly, exactly. So, sayTres, say trackers, not the...

...hero. No, exactly. Yeah, we've got some fantastic metrics that make you the hero, but you're theone that uses our solution. You're our customer and and making sure that youcan champion not only yourself but our solution to your peers and your bosses oryour reports even is what's going to grow your career and it's what's going tomake you successful. We have a blog series that we wrote called projects alive, and in projects a life, we interview feel as project managers, peoplethat just getting out there and changing the game for their business, but atthe same time we're also interviewing, you know, a professor from Rutga's whobasically wrote the book on Project Management. And so what I'm what I'm tryingto show here is is that we need to be celebrating the individuals that aresuccessful in order for us as marketers to recognize and learn from the challenges thatour customers are experiencing. Otherwise we're just going to be bashing our heads againstthe wall. So good. It's how I learned. So I've been I'vebeen here at bomb on, the software company I work at, for almosteight years and over that time I've told so many customer success stories and shareduse cases and things, and you really it's in that process of organizing thatinformation and building that relationship to get not just the permission but all that detailsand the tactics for how they're being successful with the software that really allows youto speak to other people like them really well. So I love what you'reup to there. I'm going to stay on this kind of like human tohuman track here, because you're right there, you know, speaking to the individualand celebrating the individual and then empowering other people to give themselves permission tobe success as full as well, because a lot of people just don't wantto welcome it's this. It's part of a common superhero story to just towalk out your Cape Right it's like this. Exactly. I've been given this power, but I need to you know, as part of the origin story.It's like I need to deny this...

...power. I can't accept this power. Is Too much responsive to all this stuff, right. So, yeah, exactly. So you've worked globally, obviously in Australia, across North America, Asia, Pacific, Europe, Middle East Africa with with the casinos.Talk a little bit about the differences maybe in customers or customer expectations were incustomer experience across all these different regions or flip side of it, there reallyisn't any fundamental difference. People are people are, people are people. Liketalk about that and you've truly worked globally and it in a really sounds likeyou've done some a lot of direct response marketing. So like there's a lotof like are there differences around the globe in your observation and experience? Yeah, definitely. Look, I think the short answer is yes, and thelonger answer is obviously more nuanced. I think that if you stought to thinkabout let's just pok language for a second. Obviously language is important if you're goinginto the French market or the Japanese market, you need to be inlocal language. So if we just assume for a second that there's a youknow, we accept that local language is something that we have to do,particularly in specific market. It's I think that, at the end of theday, there are things that make it culturally different for you to communicate.You know, I was in Luxembourg a couple of weeks ago at a tradeshow called art summer, which is Vota phones largest supplier conference, and thereI had the pleasure of meeting everyone from Nobel laureate to the Prime Minister ofLuxembourg through to the average Joe who is using the software. And the realityis that, culturally, your difference is Europeans are tending to be more politethan Yanks, which is okay, but they they're also more formal at thesame time. So I think respecting the cultural norms in the area that you'reworking in, knowing those cultural norms and obviously addressing them in advance makes sense. It's, dear, Mr something in...

Germany it's not, hey, frank, until you get to know them. So accepting those cultural norms is superimportant. That No side of things is that ultimately they're suffering with the samechallenge as you are. They are the same person. You know, frankin Midwest Ohio or wherever it is is the same as the frank from BadenBaden. It may just be said frank or frank, it's the exact samechallenge. So you know, as as a marketer, as an individual whois constantly looking for a way to know, humanize the experience, what I'm tryingto do is forget about the cultural norms and cut to the root ofthe value of what solution we're trying to provide or the problem that they're experiencing. And that's at the core of everything that we do. And of courseyou then wrap that in those those subtle differences, but I think it's ayes no. Address the subtle differences, but make sure at the end ofthe day you're speaking to the challenges that you're solving for do I could giveyou loads of different examples across different businesses, from a guy called why won't sharehis name because he's a from unlie casinos, but he lives in Kuwait, where gaming is illegal, but he's still, to this day, hasone of the largest affiliate networks in quit for this online casino chain, becausewe established the foundation what it means to be a casino goer in Qwait backin the day. And he's still bringing in a hundred to a hundred andfifty thousand us a month out of his affiliate network, Him and five guys. All the way through to what I just shared with you about the thePM in Luxembourg, the prime minister over there. It's yeah, I askedhim, or I asked his aid, how does he like to be referredto Mr Prime Minister? And he goes no, just call him his firstname. It's like, well, I'm...

...not going to do that. Sothere are cultural ones. You need to be sensitive to bots. Selling thevalue and selling the solution to the problem is always what everyone wants to hearand what they should hear. Yep, and then there's the human nature layer, where we are all a lot more similar than we think. So youare a great linkedin post on the process of process to generate in marketing,the right information to make a sale. And it was based on your effort, failed effort, and to sell a laptop bag in just a couple minutes. Can you unpack that a little bit? I found your steps just as sensibleas your approach to working with people across cultures and regions. Look itwas. It was the most eye opening opportunity for me. And then,to tie it back, obviously, many years later I had the fortunate experiencebetween finishing high school and going off to university to work at what would bethe equivalent of best buy in Australia. I was very lucky to start thereand operations roll and then very quickly move into the head of operations position.That came with its own challenges, like how does a seventeen year old managerteam of six people who have been there and done that? But yeah,once you kind of ignore that and move on. I was in a situationwhere there were no sales people on the floor looking to sell and the headof sales comes over to me and basically sa get out there and you know, you know all of this stuff, get out there and sell to thislady. So I walked up to her and had a chat and she toldme that she was interested in a laptop bag. And by goalie did Ishow her every single laptop bag we had. I was so proud to know everysingle fixture feature, where every zip was, what color, ever isit was, whether this was napper leather or just plain old bake leather.I showed her everything that you could possibly imagine on over fifty or sixty differentlaptop bags. Bless her heart, forty minutes later she kind of turned aroundto me and said, you know what,...

...you've given me too much to thinkabout. I am going to have to have a think on this andcome back. Oh really, that's you should get choosing one of those like, why are you leaving? She's are you've just told me too many things. I need to think about this. Meanwhile, what I realize afterwards,by walking in and having a chat with Kent, who was the head ofsales, you goes like what happened? You know, she was primed,ready to buy a laptop bag when I told her everything that she needed toknow, and he he basically slapped me over the back of the head andsaid, you know, what laptop did she buy? What laptop did sheneed the bag for? Oh, I never asked. And tying that backto modern day marketing and even modern day sales, when we're thinking about softwareselling, we need to do discovery. We need to ask simple questions ofthe people that are visiting our website or are engaging with us in some fashionand just get to know them. Like you know, we're selling to peoplethat are looking to buy things, but if we don't understand the paradigm inwhich they're operating, in which their life exists, what never going to beable to sell to them and we're just going to confuse them. So,you know, if I think about about what we're doing here at sidetracker,if I'm not asking a simple question like what is the paradigm that you operateyour projects in right now, it says good a responses, not asking thelady with her laptop bag. You know, what is the fifteen inch compact thatno one I've actually probably even knows what a compact is anymore. Ithink they got bought by Philippe Packard. But we need to ask questions,we need to diagnose in advance and remove objections by asking smart questions, bydoing the discovering the diligence to understand the paradigm in which our prospects and customersare operating, and so good. I mean it's just an advocating forgetting inconversation then ultimately getting into relationship which is obviously fundamental to a longer sales cyclein a more complex sale but it obviously...

...as well lends itself to writing bettercontent and running better ads from an Seo seem standpoint, because you know,it's not about that individual in particular, it's about that persona that you learnby talking with enough of those people. So good. I just got afew quick fun questions for you before we hit a kind of a standard closeyear. What do you wish more salespeople knew or understood about marketers or marketing? I think that the effort that it takes to get an answer to theirrequest right. Yeah, I'm going to talk about events again just because it'sjust top of mind for me. We've got a big event next week.As I said, you know, there's three or four months of effort thatgoes into an event. The salespeople show up at the booth, we've goteight demo stations, they do what they have to do and they don't appreciatethe eight months of or three months of effort go into it. So there'sthere's eight sales people standing around thinking this thing came together by some sort ofmiracle. Behind the scenes, there's four or five people working on all ofthe collateral, making sure the booth smells right, all those types of things. So I'd love for salespeople to actually appreciate the amount of effort it takesto complete tasks that they may think it's frivolous but actually requires some newance,thinking and effort. That's good. AH, how I've been there. What doyou wish more? Customer success or customer support? People knew about marketingor marketers the channels through available to them to execute on their plans right?I think that you know, csms struggle with communication on mass and there's anopportunity to leverage marketing tools and marketing grunts to be able to allow that tohappen. Particularly when you're dealing at scale, it's impossible for you to do that'smy advice to any CSM out there is to sit down with your headof marketing or head of any department in tacketing and just basically say, youknow, what can we do to have...

...you guys act as a force multiplierfor us, and then what is it that we can do to provide youany content or collateral or even problem recognition or pattern recognition of problems so thatI can come back and feed into the prospecting cycle. Good staff relationships areour number one core value here and I would love for you to think ormention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and a companythat you feel is delivering really good experiences to their to their customers. Yeah, for sure. I'm a big shoe fan, so I'm a big fiendwhen it comes to Nike's customer experience. I think they've got all the channelscovered. I never complain about them and that's why I my wife's probably takenmy credit card away from me so that I can't add to my hundred andtwenty pair collection and growing. So I'm big fan of Nike. The personthat's made the most impact on my life and I'd always Hark back to isthe Xcoo of Ogilvie Australia, the guy called Mark Bryan. He had suchan amazing career and he's still got an amazing career. Is just no longerat oglev anymore, but he was hugely impactful on my life and I'm alwaysis grateful and always think fondly of him and always reach out to him totell him as much. That's so good. It's important to double back on those. That's why I ask the question. It's so good. I love thosestories. Real kind of a practical matter here when you get into thetriple digits on shoes. How much is the how much of this is Iwant the perfect pair for every occasion, and how much of it is thisis just a straight cataloged collection eating away at some space in an oversized walkin closet. Like do you do rotate in and out of these hundred,a hundred plus shoes? Yeah, I do. It's more an esthetically pleasingthing that I'm going for. I actually like the design elements of them andI do wroteate them a lot. So...

I end up wearing any day ofthe way, you could a couple of different pairs or across the wake upprobably where five or six different pairs of shoes. It's just I like them. They are esthetically pleasing and it's a great way for me to be comfortablewhilst, yeah, just still being a little bit colder for my like abolt head and effect that I'm pretty old. So going to keep up with theseyoung kids. That's great. It's I mean again, this is thisis impact. Nike a probably delivering you a lot of really nice purchasing andshopping experience. It delivering on the product, basic product quality itself, but empoweringyou to express your tape Sul your wonderful taste and ability to matches,you to Eddie outfit in any occasion. My wife disagrees, but yes,yeah, it's good, as as are all things that are subjective in nature. There's design. This has been awesome. You are just a really good spirit. I like the work that you're doing in the way that you're thinkingabout it and approaching it. And if someone wants to follow up on thisconversation, how can they connect with you online or connect with site tracker?Yeah, for sure. Just reach out to me as an individual on twitter. You can find me as at Bretatchester, or on Linkedin at Rochester, oron facebook. At Rochester. Has a bit of a patent there.You can also email me directly the chest at site trackercom. But I'm acrosssocial if you search for Breadchester, you'll find my website and you can sendme a contact us kind of note there as well. Awesome, so good. I encourage people to do so. On linked in. By the way, that story that I referenced. You need to go connect with Brett andcheck that story out, if only to see the repeated but varied and,I'm sure, very accurate descriptions of the sales manager at the organization O Kent. Yeah, thank you so much.

Yeah, it's fun. It wasfun to read a you obviously had fun writing that one, I did.Yeah. Well, I appreciate your time so much. I know folks enjoyedthis episode and if you want to hear more like this, please subscribe tothe customer Experience Podcast, obviously in itunes or apple podcast. It's also availablein spotify, soundcloud and a variety of other places, and if you wantto see video clips and get overviews of these episodes, you can just visitBombombcom podcast. Thanks again for listening and thank you again, Brett, foryour time today. Pleasure. Thank you. Clear Communication, human connection, higherconversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videosaccelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast.Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and delivera better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics bysubscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcasts.

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