The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 127 · 6 months ago

127. 3 CX Strategies for CROs w/ Darryl Praill

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

As a CRO, how do you change the culture of your org so that customer experience is everyone’s responsibility?

In this episode, I interview Darryl Praill, CRO at Vanilla Soft, about how he distributes the ownership of customer experience across the whole org by dissolving barriers between teams.

Darryl talked with me about:

- What a matrix organization is

- How colleagues are influenced by how they are compensated

- 3 ways to create a culture of empathy

- How marketing leaders can develop their personal brand

- The role of video in customer experience

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Neewer Photo and Video

- Darryl on Twitter

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Or our ultimate goal here is have anamazing customer experience such that they want to do bises with us becauseof the front part of the customer Sperieceta the marketing and then thesubsequent selling part is a dynamic experience. They're going to be sopleasant and so delighted that e price comes out, it should be a reasonableconversation. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast, here'syour host, Eathan Baute, director of marketing and director of ProductMarketing Vice President of sales, vice president of marketing and Senior VicePresident of sales and marketing chief marketing officer Chief Revenue Officer.These are among some of the titles that today's guest is held over the years,almost all of them in the software industry. He currently serves as cro atVanilla, soft, a sales engagement platform he's also a podcast hoast ind,a very consistent video user. In fact, we talked about video on episode, oneeleven of his show inside inside sales. I've been looking forward to this onesince he scheduled it with me, Darrell prayl. Welcome to the customerExperience Podcast, Oh you're, talking about me, I thought you were talkingabout. Some person did not know what the hell they wanted to do with theirlifesales marketing sales marketing. Oh my goodness, thank you, sir so gon tobe yeah. It was fun. I obviously you know, spent time on linkedon profilesand stuff parent preparing for these, and it was just like the range oftitles, but the there's a story there and I and will get into some of that.I'm really curious about Cro. In particular, this will be the firstspecific cro conversation we've had on the show, but before we get going you-and I have some- we have many things in common, but among them one you probablywouldn't guess right away is that I am...

...on the board of directors for KarenShere, which is a food bank. Here in southern Colorado serves thirty sevencounties from one state line all the way over to the other, and you are onthe board of directors of caring and sharing exchange. Tell you a little bitabout who they are, what they do and what your involvements like so the soI'm the resident marketing expert there they need. You know, Marketi expert, tohelp them how to you know, raise heir visibility and theire wareness to drivemore contributions. Donation support that kind of stuff. So that's the roleI play and the carrying Sharingxchange is actually an organization here in theNational Capital Region, which is what we say in Canada, for you know Ottawaand across the River Gat, no in Qobac, so and what we do it's Rey straightforward. We a variety of things, but the biggest thing we're nown for ismaking sure that everybody at Christmas, no matter what you know, whether you're,Jewish or Christian or whatever, you've got a gift. You've got some kind ofthat. You know your love now we also do you know: Toy Drives and clothingdrives Nand. We do a whole bunch of other things throughout the year, butthat's how it all began. That's over a hundred years of making sure thateverybody had a gift to open a Christmas. What a nice origin story anda long history, so cool, Tla, you're enjoying your work there. I just sawthe name- and I was like hey. That sounds like what I do. That sounds likewhat I do: Yeah Yeah Cool. Let's start wher. We Always Start Daryl, which iscustomer experience when I say that what does it mean to you? Oh, mygoodness cos. Okay, so my mind immediately when yousay my mind goes in a thousand different directions: one is ca and ifit's the nearons firing one is that's the feeling that I have inside as aconsumer when I'm dealing with e particular brand. So, for example, ifyou were to mention my Internet provider, I would get anxious and Iwould just get resentment and bitterness and hatred right. That's oneexample of the customer experience, but then the neurons kept on firing is,like you know, I thought of contention...

...and conflict in confusion, because it'slike people who owns customer experience and nobody really truly inmost companies is designated with owning customer experience or they doit's just platitudes, and I deal with that in the marketing side of my roleall the time because, for example, if somebody gives us a bad review on a GTOor a captera trust radius and and you drill down, you realize this becausethey had a probably because they had a really bad support. Experience. Well,is that my fault, or is that supports fault and who his task with fixing that?So all those happened? sumultaneously, butfirst in this really was the emotion that I feel inside yeah with you on thefeeling part. It's a very consistent theme, and it's so important, of course,because those feelings beget thoughts and beget actions. So it sounds likeyou, don't have a formal role internally. I was going to ask that asa followup OES, your gut like when you think about it and obviously it's upfor grabs right now, but as you think about it, is it something that youwould hope or expect to have someone assignto an individual or a team, or do you feel like share responsibility? Is theway forward, like you know what Ar you thinking about that so a couple thingsso internally at Benillasof, I own it. So that's it's a statet roles, part ofmy job ICATION, I own customer experience. Somebody does have to audit,but you know: There's always the story behind the story which I there was atime when nobody owned it right and it was me sticking my nose in and sayingwell wait a minute. You know if we have a poor customer experience that affectscurn, because we affect curn, the CEO, the CFLIS, going to come back to me andsay: Darro, you own sales. You need to make up the money we just lost and I'mlike wait a minute you're, giving me more burden for something that happenedoutside of my department. That makes no sense. So yes, I on it, which is thenmeans I have in a matrix organization, the ability to inject myself across theorganization to make sure that we're...

...doing all the things we can for turn.I'm sorry for Cusmomar satisfaction and we measure that using things like npsand other aspects, all right in most companies, somebody needs to own andall depends in the companys size, for your small, the medium size companiesthat could be a cro like me, that could be a chief marketing officer or a chiefcustomer officer. I've seen a lot of people saying so the CEMO you're, theCCO and I'm cool with both those approaches, but somebody does need toown it as part of their job description. But but then, when you get bigger, youneed a dedicated resource. This is all they do is continually optimized thatexperience across the board. Awesome. I don't want to go too deep into it, butfor folks that caught the the term Matrix Organization, can you give meone layer on that yeah, some mators organization, hot means that you know the head of support, does not supportreport. To me, the report to the CEO I report to the CEO. So we have a sharedboss. However, there's a matrise there's a dot at line horizontally.Instead of up and down vertically between me and the head of support.That says, I have the ability to inject myself because I own a task under yourpurview such as the customer experience, because it correctly affects me. Sowhen I come to you and EV, though we're colleagues repeers. When I come to youand say I need you to do this when w I'm speaking as your boss, that's amatrix organization awesome that was very concise. Thank you for folks,weren't familiar tell us a little bit about Vanilla, soft who's, your idealcustomer. What problems do you sal for them, so he olots off to salesengageint solution, so we would sell Tho sales and marketing leaders whowant to turn those mqls in e, sqls and ultimatey deals. The whole premisearound sales engagement is that marketing's making all these leads, butthen sales doesn't follow up them fast enough, frequently enough or the write,cadence or playbook up email, some phone calls and SSMMASS and socialtouches. So our platform makes sure the sales wraps do exactly that. That'swhat we do if you know of other companies like a sales lofter andoutreach, were in the exact same space.

You do the same thing. The difference,though your question is where to we playd. Unlike those fenders, we play anSMB smallto, medium size, Pacesus and, unlike those vendors, we don't readPlan High Tech. We have lots of high tech clients, that's where they play weplay in what we like to see: a real world industries industries, thiyinsurance, finance, givings funraising. You know higher red manufacturing realworld every day, meatad potato industries that may not have the mostopphisticated texttack meing. I have the most robust it department may nothave the most savvy and men. People may have some employee churn more so thanthe average bear. That's where we play awesome. How do you advise people? Youknow, I think, when I think about sales engagement, part of my mind, here's andI'm speaking as a cynic here, not just o myself, but for for the cynics amongus, I behalf of the those people you know when I hear sales engagement. Ioften hear something like sales automation like give a couple cautionslike how do we make sure that that a tool like yours is being used in a wayto benefit humans on both sides of a potential transaction in a way thatdoesn't dehumonize either party? Like you give a couple piece of advice tothe cymix to say this can be used well, inappropriately and N in a productiveway. So I'm the world's biggest cynic as well brother, I'm there with you, soi Han O itsand the cynic. An me says: You areright to be wary and what I like to tell people is that, if youse wrong, what is going to do isway faster and way more effectively than you ever could do on your ownsales engagement were really piss off your target base and I'll never want totalk to you again. So I'll answer the question around. What can you do to fixit? But let me explain that there's lots of MARTEC out there in sales techthat can do this right, so think about email. We did email for years, it'sgreat at automated it and I cal have a nice personal milks and a newsletterwould have you, but then people started...

...spamming and they didn't get permissioncontrol and all of a sudden. It was like, oh that everybody was doing itbecause they were selling list so, like everything else, you've got to use itwith some intelligence in the case of sales, engageent think of it in thesimplest contaxts. The whole point of the tool is to remind you that you needto touch your prospects on te defined pattern. FREQUENCY OER A set period oftime, so seven touches seven days, twelve touches eighteen days, whateverit might be, and it's just reminding you to do it. No, yes, you can automeete, some of that, but usually what I'll do is say. Here's the email, I'mYabout, to send you anm to send that that's where you would get in and takea wait a minute. I O need to go and research this individual. I need tofind a point of coming out. Andeither a need tot be relational about this asupposed to just sending hey go, have ten minutes on your calendar tomorrowyou and I both Knof, that's at going tof work. So that's the first point.Second plan is whe. You design your cadences design them to not make thatask AP front so other words give give Giv a give hey. I see you're in thisear in this industry we have customers in this industry. They get a lot ofvalue rim. This report, just showing it with you, boon, no ask play the longgame, so it Touche seven or touch twelve or touch fifteen. Your toucheighteen or touch twenty four. You finally start making those ask atvalues we took them on social media, engage in conversation again you're, making deposits that you'regoing to show your wan to actually make it withdraw an later as Sam, I kind oflikes to say in those early parts of your of your cadence. You want to showme, you know me it's supposed to treat me like a transaction. So, in the end,it's all about relationships if you're dating most people, if you're lookingfor a a marriage, most people won't go to the first person. you see whom youfind attractive and say: Will you marry me? Can we consummate the relationsright now? All those kind of things tend to work against you. This is thesame way so long answer, but there you go it's good, a lot of really goodstuff in there and the long game is really the perspective that I think...

...when it's missing leads to the worstuse, and I really like the I mean what you did. There was blend kind of theart in the science, the science being, let's be methodical. Let's beconsistent, let's see if we can set this up in a way that will be usefulacross our team of reps, but then the art is okay. I have these activities,but who is it for WHO's the person on the other side of it, and how can Iengage them in a more personal way? There's two things need to understand.From a sales point of view, sales wraps tend to riddy suck at having any kindof regular ongoing, scheduled Outrach, O right, Theys kind of make a call orto and forget it, that's it second thing is: is you don't know how thatprospect likes to communicate? Did they want to talk to you on the phone? Dothey just want to use email? Do they prefer SMS to they prefer socialtouches? So the idea of mixing up the touches, the channels that you use andreminding you non stop at is time to set another touch to ethon at Bombam iswhat actually brings both words together? That's really the point, andthe beauty of that is. It makes you the saleship way more productive andultimately gives you a better customer experience. Where's the thing whatyou're doing now at the sales engagement part, it sets the tone forthe continuing customer. Experience are going to get through the whole journey.So if you annoy them now, the customer experience starts off negative. Twentytwo can only get worse because now they're on guard, whereas ifyou'reaccommodating your respectful, your personal, your giving before you ask totake, then the customer experience can grow. So what you don't understand is agood sales engagement platform will do wonders for your customer experience ifimplementit appropriately, yeah and used itactually use it. It follow the things that it's telling you to do. Yes, yeah, really, good, okay, so cro. Iwant to make an observation and then kind of set you loose a to react tothat observation and then be you've...

...already kind of talked a little bitabout how you're structured in the organization, but I'd love to getreally explicit about that. To my observation is that the CRO movement isa lot like the current customer experience movement. In that you knowwhat I'm trying to do with the show is to create more understanding andconsistency and wholism across marketing sales and customer success,because the experience needs to be consistent across all of those. Theyall play a different role, but each of us sees the customer a little bitdifferently, and so we understand the customer differently and we, if we'renot talking about it across the entire life cycle, then we're probably notbeing consistent and I think the cro kind of brings under one roof a lot ofthat same perview, obviously around the idea of revenue, but it's impossible asyou've already done. You know it's impossible to talk about revenue andretention and expansion and growth. Without talking about the customerexperience and again- and you already said this too, like if the salesexperience or the marketing experience is bad from the GETGO. I have anegative impression: it's almost impossible to recover from so I think,giving one person perview over the entire revenue life cycle is Kannin alot of ways to creating awareness or a role or whatever across the customerexperience it's just one of them is more feeling and feedback and the otherone is actual behavior in terms of revenue production. So everything you said is spot on. Imean if we sit back and examine how organizations historically have worked,we WERK CINSILOS and it's not malicious. It just is what is the marketing teamis a marketing thing. Success Team does a success, thing, sales toes sales andthen maybe once a week or every couple times a month, we get together and esay Hey: what are you doing hey? What are you doing hey? What do you cratgold team? And then you back your Selos and what you end up getting. There is avery disjointed experience for the customer and you have to sit back andthink what is our ultimate goal here? Our ultimate goal here is to have anamazing customer experience such that...

...they want to do business with us,because if the front part of the customer experience t a the marketingand then the subsequent selling part is a dynamic experience. They're going tobe so pleasant and so delighted that when price comes out, it should be areasonable conversation and then it goes the on boarding and that's goodlife is good too. So, if that all goes well, what happens Wen on? What happens?is they tell a friend and they tell a friend and they tell a friend and Borda?Mouth is a wonderful thing. Internally, they tell department, they tell adepartment, Andother Business Union, other business unit, so you grow withinthe install base of your current account and the grow with anotheraccounts. That's the whole idea. Your turn goes down. Life is grand, but thatcan't happen unless everybody's on the same page and Medi monces a week or acouple times a month, doesn't do that, so you need to bring it together underh. The revenue size we kind of put a line in the sand. We said in our caseand for those who don't know, Caros tend to own success and mark I'm sorry,gues success and sales and marketing generally. Now, in my case, for now, Ionly have marketing and sales success may happen. That's a discussion that wewant to get that in order. The reason they do, that is so they can actuallyhave alignment among all the people who touch the customer experience. That'swhy they do it, because if they leave because they don't like the Free Tralexperience, because the part was bad, but they leade, because success didn'tdo a great job and they churned, then sales has to make up those numbers andthat's bad. So the challenge, though ith the CRO, is whatever the years whatthey've tended to do is they just tend to take a VPF sales who owns revenueand they've, said okay, instead of giving you more money, I'm going tochange your title and I'm going to give you a C. I get youare a chief now soofVpsalles Youre achief, your chief revenue officer, because hey there'snot very many of those and that's just a missnomer and because all they justkeep on doing is focusing on sales and they ignore the other departmentsbecause they don't understand the other department. So yeah I own it all, butbecause I don't understand it all, I'm not gonna give it any time other thanto make sure yeah. It's going. Okay,...

...it's going! Okay, yeah! You guys aregood, get great pom! I'm going to focus here in sause te Trurol, the CeroWhyi's kind of getting a bit of a renaissance and whyt's shifting is nowyou're truly seeing the road change as marketing and sales blur were the youknow, marketing top of funnel sales bottom of funnel it that middle funnel.That's gray! Do the SDR and Bdar support the sales o? Do the report tomarketing my ASTARF FO're talking about open rates, but isn't that a marketingmetric, I'm so confused? So there is a blending going on and it is a seemashandoff and you need a person who understands the whole thing and nowyou're, seeing Cros more and more frequently come from or marketingbackground, because they understand the digital marketing and digital marketinghas become massive selling is still pretly hasn't changed. I can still beup a phone. I can still send an email. I Still Sen my linked in touch, butdigital marketing is like changing all the time. WHAT'S PLATE ITS ALGORITHMS?Are You doing influence R marketing? Are you on social media? Do you have apersonal brand above and beyond a company Pran are ou using video. Howare you using video? Are you at an avent? Are you at a virtual event? Areyou doing both? How are you spending your money base on Jenx versus genyversus Genz? The list goes on all that's marketing, setting the tonesAnin, the message so see. Ou Ro is meant to keep everybody in the samepage, because now we're just one team. We are the revenue team and all thatpickering and bitching goes away, and now we are literally doing a hand offthat he would a football team on a field from the quarterback to thereceiver, with a blockwe all have her roles and the whole points get atouchdan with the whole role. The whole point is to get a customer. That is ahappy customer that I answer your question yeah so now,within and beyond. Within this RevenueOrganization or revenue function, you still kind of have these silos. Whatare you doing practically as a leader to create more understanding across theteams? Like more respect, more...

...understanding? U Becauseit's one thingto give someone the title: It's something else to break down becauseVanila soft didn't start yesterday. You know there's some history before whatI'm thinking about here is a listener who's, maybe a marketing leader or asales leader who potentially sees this need to create thi structure in theirown organization. How of you, as a leader kind of brokendown, what exists of the silos, even if even if they don't exist on paperanymore, because they all fall together under here? You know: There's stillsome history there and we have different titles and things like how do you lead to that? How do youmanage to that? So it's not easy and every situation isgoing to be different and yes, we weren't, I wasn't always a zero. Wedidn't always have that role. We've been around for a while. How do youchange established mindsets, existing cultures, so thebest advice I can give you is a couple things as what I've done and I madefull admission. I'm still figuring this out. I've been in the job Coanto a year.Now they say you know, walk a mile on my shoes and you'll have a whole newappreciation, for you know the journey that I'm on, and so we've done that sowe've made marketing DU sales calls we've been marketing called customers,we' be marketing, handle support, calls we've made sales, do marketingcampaigns to Ab testing, you know doing different demographics and when you doin doing copywruting, writing blogs making iuow the sales raps generally,they don't want to go rigdt a blog. They don't want to go red, an Ebook orwhite paper. You know they just want to do the deal into the deal so and themarketers are scared, all the hell of Gettin a rejection. So this crosspallination goes along ways. I do it under the guys of cross training if joegets hit by a bus SUSI. I need you to step into Joe Shoes for a little while,so you need to learn their rolling vice versa. Fine, when you do that, thenthere's a respect like yeah, my open, Ragte, thirty, two percent, his openrace, forty one percent, damn it! What is he doing all right? So all of asudden there's this tell me more in there an youre swapping stories andbest practices here. Let me coach, you ot, that opening monologue on that Cotecall your close, but you didn't handle...

...this right. So that's a big part. Thesecond part is, is I as a Sero, I don't have a team with my marketing team. Idon't have I meeden, then my marketing meat, I don't have a media on my salesmeeting. I have a revenue team meeting where all my reports come together andwe go through all that's going on and we all drow down and challenge eachother and Aus questions, and then we do. We really focus onto where are you introuble and then we brainstorm together and that brain storm, my together soundstupid, but that's bonding time. That's experience time. My job is to make surethat if l ethins woere to beinquiet during this session, I have to go heyethan. What do you think you know sally should do so. That's part of my jobhonestly, I find half my job is to be therapist. So the third part- and thiswhole element is to build the right team. If I've got people who areresistent to change, then th there's two things I can do. I can eithertolerate them and there will be confict organizationally and I have to endureit or I need to give them a chance to improve themselves or I need to replacethem and, like any oranization like any footbalk, going back to that sportsanalogy that Kany football team, sometimes you got to trade players,away, they're, good players, they're great players, they're, just not theright players for your team, so those are the three things that we've reallyfocuse on to try to change the culture cross, train, creasand, compassion insome empathy, and it's made a difference. It's made a huge difference,I believe absolutely it. Would I really like this idea of creating a sense ofshared ownership by brainstorming together. I think it also helps thedifferent individuals and the different teams understand each other better byworking collaboratively in a very direct way to a lot of really goodstuff in there. What do you advise like like you've? Already? I feel likecoached a a sales leader on how to potentiallybridge this gap N in her or his career. By saying, Hey, you should probablystart understanding digital marketing also baked in there was a ciety ofpotentially being a little bit more intentional or serious about yourpersonal brand. What would you say to a...

...marketing leader? How might they buildthe bridge into sales and even into success? For that greater understanding,perhaps in aspiration of being a CRO? So this is you know, you hear lots oftopics, reoun sales and marketing anlignments os much o. What I wanted totell you falls in that the same conversation. But it's true. You needto understand how your colleagues, your success. Colleagues, your salescolleagues, leadership, are compensated, their mindset and the decisions theymake, which may make no sense to your like man. They're, like you, know, it'sMars and Venus. So it's not fars an Venus theyre being influenced by howthey're compesated wonce. You understand how they'r Compensi all sothe decisions thayare making make a lot of sense in light of that and they'renot compensateded the same way. You are us, you need to stand. That secondthing you e Otderstand is you need to understand numbers better than they doso you better know the sales numbers. You know conversations activities,conversion rate, customrerquisition cause liketime values, you better knowall those numbers. You know better than your sales kind of parts same thing onthe success side. WHAT'S THE MPs score? What's Gong Olwost Te Thuran Rate How'sthat tracking, so you can have an intelligent conversation with them andthen Yo can approach them. This is really how you start to ready buildacross. You Know Bill Bridges Itansy. How can I help you with your NPS scoresand make it better all right? What can we do here? CAUT, somy ideas, so yeah,nother conversation know how the Kepis and the data third thing. This is gossound, silly thit's, one more after this, which is you do you do their JobLik? I just said all right: you, as you hey on n calls you you insert yourselfin the cals and you speak up. You Cherry pick only where you can addvalue, but you don't just sit there quietly. You add value because when thecustomer reacts and says Dang Darrell, that was a really good point. Thank youand in the rest of the rooms, fill of sales, reps and they're going holysmokes. He just sunk a three pointer at the BUZZER. With that little comment,we like thereoll, maybe he's on our side. That goes along ways. The lastthing is it's a contract. You need to...

...have a service level agreement, sonofthe words. You need to have an agreement with each your counter, Parseat says we commit respectivly. I will do this. You will do that if you don'tdo that. This is the consequence. So inother words. This is how you get ridof any kind of power struggles internally, because some organizationswill default to Usay, often the sales or to rnde oan engineering centric. Sothe as lay allows you to nip that in the butt, often by actually having arules of engagement, an expectations, but it means you got to hold up yourend all right and you got to have the courage to respectfully call up yourcolleagues and saying you drop the ball here. Also, when you do the SLA, youneed to have final review that them by the CEO, the COL, so they're bought inand they're Gong to act as Arbuter and referee, so that the end of the day, ifyou need to hold your counterpart accountable for something that theydrop the ball on, they can't just ploy you off because they have morepolitical influence. You can go back to the CEO and say you agreed to this andhe will hold or she will hold the head of sales accountable once that had asales whith had of success understands that the power is equal, they changetheir approach entirely want to work with you. Instead of against you, sofour Tathics, I think I just gave you yeah that was really good and for folkswho were listening. Of course, I don't know where you're listening to this, Iuse apple podcast, and I use the sixty second back button when I'm listeningto a show- and I guestd something that Darrell just did so consider, probablythat'll B, probably be a two click. Sixty second sixty second backback,four, really really good tips there. I'm gon to kind of build a medium sizesegue here you first came on my radar. It was onlinked in and I think it wasthe video where you were announcing that you were taking on the cro role.Yes, before we move on into video, see whatI did there. That was good thanks. I just made that up. That was really goodyeah anyway. What over the past year in thisrole has been surprising to you good, bad, otherwise, like what is unlikewhat you were expecting.

Okay, so to things come to mind. Soclearly I own marketing before so. There was no change there. I knew thatgame insead of Avr. So for me I gained the saleside, so everything I'velearned that was unexpected was going to be there and two things gon the mine.The first thing I found a- and I don't want to generalize- and I know Itotally am- is that sales raps as a whole and I've talked to a thousandpeople about this. Since then, and they've allays said that sales sales EOas a whole, they don't believe you. So if I went to a marketer- and I said Ineed you to do- Xyandz they're Goinna go, okay are yeah, I bak Ol forthe, say,and because, if you do this, then this is the outcome. That's yourcontribution. I need it by this dat. Any problems you, let me know, be good.We're good fine go. Sales wraps is a segment of the population. Where you dothe exact same thing, I need Tou. Do this many calls and you reach fo thisperson Ba I need Tou were to change the compensation o reflect whyt. I've heardBlahbah border move the team around a little bit Reorg of the bit whatever itmight be. Whatever once you're gone, you're going to talk amongst themselvesand go what does he really mean Bo that? What's he not telling us? I think he's doing this, even though hedidn't say he was going to do this so this this whole conspiracy, theory,inclination amongst them and half the time they'll, take it offline, they'lltext each other privately, not on email, non, ans, slack or teams. They want togo behind the scenes and then eventually this bubbles up and you gotto go what the Hell I did did I say something: convoluted andyou'll spend hours of them Bor. They finally say well, I just didn't believeyou bell, then why didn't you come to me and that's not how they're wiredTAT's just thought how theyere wired? That was the first part- and I know I'mgeneralizing, but there's a lot of people listening Wegre, not going yesyeah! The second part was I'm a therapist as a cero. I said Thi'salready and I' said this again, my number one job, because I got I had abackfill ot myself, bfill myself, so...

I've got ahead of sales. I've got, Ihad a marketing and I let them you know run their show like I wanted to run myshow. So that leaves me to be the strategic guy. That leads me to be. TheGuy Hes keeps her reay in the same direction and what it ultimatly meansis that I'm not this digital marketer e Guy, I'm not this ace closer guy. WhatI am is the therapist you're working hard. You really look run down you,okay, I see you and Susi aren't getting along. What's the rout cause of thatSusie I see you and billy aren't getting along Billy says is this? Isthat where you yea, what ar we go getting a room and Sing Cumbisif? Wecan' overcome this all right, everybody just now, let's just chant an meditatein this for a while. So there's a lot of counseling therapy involved to makesure everybody and- and it's not helped with covid everybody's locked up andyou know. Historically, we many of us would be in an office weth feed offeach other. We would blow off steam in the office and it would be done sothat's one, the two biggest things that have been I've, just bang my had aroundI'm like is it me. Am I stupid butever? I talked to they just laugh at me andthey all say: Yep. That's Salester, really good the humans most complicatedfactor in any anywhere. We are wr, we're, typically the complicatingfactor, all right video. When did you get turned own to video kind of whatwas the Yaha moment for you and what are a few ways that you use video forthe benefit of yourself and or your business, so you Kno, I've been doing video forForik freaking ever like a very, Very Long Time Im. But I have my own agencythat I was I ran for. I was a decade before Ben it Las off, recruiting meand I closed it. Down, take the job and a big part of my income was doing live,streams and podcast, and you know video, so video's been big for a long time,but in when, in the early days video was, you know here, give me five sanddollars and I produce for you a two minute: video and we'll bring a crew inand all this gear and the gear weight.

Forty two pounds each and you know itwas a big production. So when I really got jazz, was it w ul come it kind of came down towhen I took on the job at Vanellas off, because I was like Vanilla, soft, likeokay. So at the time I'm going on competing aaintsales of Tan that reacha little bit. We hadn't redy defined that we were SMB and they've got likethree hundred million dollars in funding, and I don't I have none of iveless than one percent of that. How do I compete with them on something thatcosts me nothing or almost nothing, and it was a one to punch. It was well. If I do social, I can reach outthe influencers, and I want to build up a following. It's always aboutrelationships. Relationships come across in videos way more than they doon a textbows sots. The first part second part was webinars. We neededleads. So again we can do video webernars, but let's do our productionquality and engages let's to talk. Show let's do CNM, because that time, no onewas doing that right. They were still doing audio only Webenar. So let's justgo nuts with this, so they became a competitive weapon. That's what got meso juss about it and the cost to do video droft like Iraq. You know I coulddo a video on my smartphone. If I wanted to my biggest investment was acouple soft lights, and maybe I wired as microphone and maybe a Dongle to gofrom the widest microphone from my phone to the DSLR camera that it boughtused on Ebay. I mean it was really the cost came down dramatically. So that'swhat I was for us. It was literally probably three four years ago when wesaid this is a weapon. This is a weapon that will allow us to play with tha bigboys, which yronically is exactly what happened, and it's also the exact sametimeline that you saw the emergens wof the personal brand, so they go a handin hand. I can't imagine doing our job sales or marketing today, without thatthe disadvantage you're at without video. Just forget it. It's you'regonna get lost in the noise. Do you have a lot of team members who areusing video kind of on their own? You...

...know similar to you. I mean obviouslythere's this personal component to it and you're doing a lot of teaching andeducation in an entertaining format. You're just you're, fun and easy towatch by the way, and this of thatill lead to a followi question, but are any of yourteam members using it in a similar way? No, and I wish they wered and we talkethey all want to. I think too many people get stuck in their own head andthe one thing I try to tell them over and over again is listen. You should beno different on video than you are in real life likeif you were to go and watch me speak at a public stage when we remember used tohave trad shows and people totally. Yes, I would look the same one that stage asI do in the video. So if I can go do that, why can't I go do that? I thinkpeople just get really really in their head now. So the question was that theydo it like me. No do I have several team members Ho's in video. Yes, I'vegot several reps he's tools like bom bomb that are stunning and they becauseit's a way to be personal with with their Tarkot audience. They'll usevideos on linked in of a deal, get stuck to say, hey that I miss somethingso that works like videos on Linkedim, I lik yeah, it's a great neusecase.It's like goal like ninety nine percent, I'm like I'm so sorry, Yo Hav been busy get right on that. I do have a lot ofmy product people now who are now only because I force them are wanting to getan and are certing to get very busy to having they have their own lepinarserious. Now they have their own podcast, now honor, binlisof, brand andcost, but they're getting out there and the best example I sey to them. Is thisnenail? Take a look at Devan, read Itcong Thik, a look at spar, brazer atGung, Tay, Looka Gong, and, let's just be them right. You know you should be atrust, O resource and how I often said that these people is we're going tohold your hand, we'regoin toeverything, for you s, you have to worry about it.Well, edit, you will make it looks well, buy you the gear, we'll put it in frontof you right, so you hat the right mike...

...the right lights off stuff done boughtit. I just need you out there and the reason we're doing that, because I havehad good traction of my own I's because I can't scale. So if I truly want tobecome an expert in my markets that I serve, I need brand ambassadors foreach of those markets and that's why we're doing it. Yeah really good g goone layr deeper on kind of the wie video. Obviously it's a unique format.It's a visual format. It's more emotionally engaging people feelconnected to you, even though they've never met you. This kind of, likeparasocial dynamic that you know we've had with television people and filmpeople for years. Talk about me that the human side or the psychologicalside, like what got you lit up on it like what was your Oh, my gosh. This isdefinitely different and better and all my team members should be doing it eventhe ones who aren't as sharp, witty or extroverted as you are,which Ironica is funny because I'm an introvert jus so were cler cool yeah.So what was t really got me? I think it was the. It was the reaction. It wasthe viseral reaction of the audience, and you said it all right so thinkabout it. This way again, when I began at Vanilla, soft in my linkto profile was reasonable.You know I'd earned the position I had, but nobody really knew who I was so.How do I insert myself into the conversation and I quickly learn withvideo video is relational, so you don't needto be me. You don't need to be funny. You don't need to be exaggerated. You just need to be Igoint to use a overuse word here, authentic and when you were just you, peoplesmell it. They feel it then all of a sudden involuntarily, they're smilingwatching you, you make them feel good. There's trust, that's built up andyou've never talked to them, so it was...

...it was. We saw a couple things happen.We saw just our traffic go through the roof, we saw the engagement go throughthe roof and that, of course, you know the oupside led to a lot of inboundleads. That became deals lowest. Coust of you know acquisition going rightthere, but the other part was. We saw trust, so people would come to us. I,this is herall tits. All the time. Daral then watching your content for along time love it you've made such a diference in my life. Can I ask you aquestion, and so the trust then led the word of mouse, even if they weren'tbuying was word a muste fro, saying you know, you're looking for salesengagement, you darrel Prayou Banella, so youen to go check them out. They'reawesome here. Let Me Hook you up right, so it was the reaction of people and infact I knew I was really in trouble. Was the weirdest experience when Imaybe but a year into the process, I was walking, I just ride out atradshill as walking the halls, and I would watch people stop and stare at meand whisper amongst themselves as I would walk down the hallway, and thatsounds vain is not meant to because it was it's the most disconcerting spookything Gong and you know they're all recognizing you know the conversationis nhat there appre or he looks familiar. I've seen him arout, who isthat guy right and so when you're having that effect, you're tangibly impacting people'slives, and it's all through the power of videovideos just the medium? It's the relationship that you're establishingind building, whether you're telling them how to set up Gmail or how toconfigure their iphone or how to sell better. You become a trusted resource,and then you become a destination. You become a brand and it's just peoplewant to like you. They want to be with you. They want to trust you they want.You are their friend, you they bring you into their homes. They watch you ontheir seventy inch TV. You know this is what they do. I cannot tell you howmany times I that's been shared with me...

...about yeah tere, all I go to sleep withyou every night, because they're listening to my podcast or putting meon TV and Fallin Asleep, which is what I do it, but people asleep. So thereyou go. I mean that's the impact thou. It is just very, very personal. Thebest way toput it yeah, really good. Two things there that authenticitypiece there's to me. I think the dynamic there, because you said thepeople can sense it on you or they can whatever Yo. They sense it. I thinkit's, this kind of confidence and comfort in your own skin and havingfound your voice like that blend there of I'm secure as an individual humanbeing and oh by the way, I have information that I can help you with. Ithink combination. Is this sweet spot again speaking to people, I am also anintrovert speakin to people who feel like. Maybe they don't have a bigenough energy or a big enough personality or enough extra version tobe in front of people. It's this. If you are secure in yourself that isfundamentally attractive, and I don't mean that, like in a physical way, it'slike it's an attractive quality of someone where you feel like Gosh, thatperson you know comfortable in their own skin, confident what they'resharing, and so I think, a lot more people should be pursuing this. I havehad the same experience by the way t trade shows we're very focused in aparticular industry for a couple of years here at Bombamb, and so when Iwould go to trade shows in that industry in particular, I would haveconversations in line at starbucks. I would have conversations the elevator.I would have comof like so many good conversations and sometimes Itas likehey ethen, and sometimes it was like yes, Hey, bombamb guy, and sometimes itwas like hey. I know you yeah, just it just creates it's just so fun,because I had the conversations you never would have had otherwise andbecause they feel like they know you, like you're a friend and a trustedresource, they skip what I call the Howse, the weather questions yeas right,so you get in the elevator at the trade sho. It's like hey how about that? Howabout that main stage this morning? That was pretty good, huh or gosh. Itsure is warm here in San, Diego Hah.

You know and you get to like reallygood stuff. I find often the reference back to the content. I've done as ifwe've been having this conversation for a long time. So Hey when you talk tothat person- and they said this- and you said that why didn't you say thatand I'm like in my mind, going OKA, which I do Tli e a zillion productionsa week which production are they referring to right and ecause? Theyjust skip it Akcusee they skipp the high hello, the your friends yeah. Ofcourse. Of course you know what we're talking about right bud and which Ilove. I absolutely love, and then I just I'm like Hey du, I'm I'm slow. I'mTi o remind me again what the conversation was O as whut this allright: okay, cool yeah, so good. I could talk with you all afternoon foryour sake and for the listeners I will say I should probably have you back,because I have several other questions that we're not going to get to today,including inside inside sales podcasting. What you've learned on thatjourney mentor ship we're both in a peak community group. I know you'vedone some education in that group to a lot more. We can should would talkabout. But for now I will say if you've enjoyed your time with darrel as I have,you should probably check out episode, dinety with Tod Kaponi, a mutual friendof both of ours and the author of the Transparency Sale, and we talked a lotabout authenticity and transparency and reputation and reviews in some of thethings we talked about here and then a little bit more recently episode, onetwelve with Lisa Earl mccloud, who is the author of selling with noblepurpose and having this kind of clarity of intention in this idea that the wayyou do your work matters and focusing on the process can produce the outcomein a better way than focusing on the outcome alone. This idea, and this thereason I thought of it, was you're offering early on about salesengagement and how to do it in a way that is helpful and productive anddoesn't ruin the experience for anybody...

...or frustrator confuse anyone ordehumanize, either party Thaas, ninety with Tod Kaponi and one twelve withLisa ermaccloud before I let you go darrel. Can you do two things for me?The first is to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact onyour life for your career, and the second is to give a nod or a shoutoutto a brand or a company that you appreciate for the experience they giveyou as a customer ISO, the somebody it's going to be cliche apologize, notoriginal. It's going to be my wife. She has been the most tolerant patientwoman ever and we've married over thirty years, and she has gone with meall over the country. Aller ith this world she's see me it. My best see mean my worse and she's never stopped believing in me, and she keeps tellingme every day how lucky and gifted Iam- and I tell everyday- she should stopdrinking. So that's the first person second person, the brand. I wasthinking about this okay. I fell this closure eten MiG Y GIVIG me a heads uphe's going to ask Mo the brand question, but not long ago, and I didn't have ananswer, but I was inspired. I have an answer and I'm feeling good about thisanswer. Ethan. I want to see your reaction. This answer, my reaction, isa brand that I trust, thatit's. Never let me downnever disappointed me. I feel like a good value from and yet I've never everseen anybody from their organization ever speak. It's just the quality ofthe product for the money that I pay for. It is if you're in the AV world,it's newer or you may Herman cause newer, Ne Wer and they sell. You knowvideo photirphotography gears, triopods everything, you meadt lights, and it's just it's just good value forthe money and when you're trying to build up all your gears, you can dowhat you got to do. You can't afford a lot. They've just been there for me, everysep of the way so neework comes to mine. I really like that. One go give give mejust a little bit more there. I mean this idea of you know. We talkedobviously a lot about video on this idea that I have a relationship with the company through an individual. Thisis one where you haven't had probably much ith any ho human interaction talkabout the components of trust there. I...

...think consistency is certainly part ofit does what it says. It's going to do I place in order and it confirms it andit gets everything. A good wood trust is a powerful thing. How, in this ex,in this context, how they built a trusting relationship with you, trustand value for me Aokyi, you know ever I'm wolling to spend money, but don'twant to spend crazy amount of money on anything right. Couse for software goesfor a car goes for a house and it goes for audio videger, so how they builttrust with me. Just by you know, we've gutthe advertising. They gave you allthe specks, they understand what it is. They don't oversell something, but theydo a really good job develip in the community. So if you look at thereviews on Amazon, these reviews are like one or two or three. These arelike hundreds or thousands of reviews, and they responsive. So you understandthat thit's not just the brand is good and the value is good because you cansee what all the prices go for: They've, not dramatically jackd their prices upover the years. Their brand has grown a little bit, maybe but not a lot, sothey've held true to their values in their principles. I respect that aboutthem. So now so much so, then, whenever I'm going to buy something likeliterally Friday, I took delivery of some by led lights, white, yellow Seanesucclads, with the barn doors cheapstands. I think I paid in Canadiandollars two and a quarter so in American dollars is like you know,fifteen cents and you know boom. They were there withintwo days. It in have to come in oversea in a containership to theire nicey,their stocked customer Serviceis. Always there you plug everything comesin is beautifully package. This is everything over and over in every timeI buy from them, and I know if have a problem, I can go back and an thellstand behind their product. That's what it is. I just have faith in their gearthey've. Given me a consistent experience and now that the first placeI go looking when I need to buy gear, not the last place non, the middle, thefirst place. I go. What does neighbor have on this? What's their price nowthat becomes the baselime that I...

...measure other vendors off of so goodand that that last piece you added there this I have the confidence that if somethinggoes sideways they'll be there for me, like this idea of risk management likeit's taken care of, you don't have any concern so good, all right. If someoneenjoyed this and if they're listening right now, I know they did. How canthey connect with you darrel? How can they connect with Vanilla soft? How canin connect with inside inside sales? Where would you send people to followup on this Binn Lus Ofcom, pretty straightforward? No, we don't give freesoft ice cream, but there's another place that does that I'm told so you'regood. That way. For me, Linkein is obviously the easiest. If you just wantto Google the word prayl PR, Aill you're, going to see Gazilian matches,of which I am a Gazilian less to maybe so I am like everything you'll find me: Deron PRAYLCOM, twitterout opinionated on club house, Ot opinionat it. So you can find me noproblem awesome and I will throw some of those links. We always write theseup. We do short writeups full, an bedded audio with a new searchableplayer. By the way, if you there's a phrase you heard, while you're walkingand talking or sorry walking and listening, you can always go to Bombom,Hacomslash, podcast and type in like Matrix Organization. You can hear thatsection again I'll, take you right to it and we also do video clips to that'sall at bombom com, Lsh, podcast darrel. Thank you so much for your time reallyenjoyed it. As I expected- and I hope you have a great rest of your day,clear communication, human connection, higher conversion- these are just someof the benefits of adding video to the messages your sending every day. It'seasy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book,Rehumanize Your Business, how personal videos, accelerate sales and improvecustomer experience learn more in order today at Bombam Com, boock, that's bomb,vombcom fuck! Thanks for listening to the customer experience, podcastremember, the single most important...

...thing you can do today is to create anddeliver a better experience for your customers, continue learning the lateststrategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcastplayer, or visit Bombomcom podcast.

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