The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

3. Why Content Experiences Beat Content Marketing w/ Randy Frisch


You feel cheated.

You‘ve tried to create amazing content to win the content marketing game.

And yet your revenue hasn’t shot through the roof. Why?

The problem isn’t your content, it is how you’re putting it all together.

You need to put your content into a content experience framework according to my podcast guest Randy Frisch, who is CMO at Uberflip, a speaker, and author of F#ck Content Marketing: Focus on Content Experience to Drive Demand, Revenue & Relationships.

The perspective that we have to keep when we look at and experiences is that creating one is great, but it may get us an award, like a marketing award or whatnot, but it's not necessarily going to help us always scale the business. You're listening to the customer experience podcast, a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businesses restore a personal human touch throughout the customer life cycle. Get ready to hear how sales, marketing and customer success experts surprise and delight and never lose sign of their customers humanity. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey. Thanks so much for clicking play on this episode of the Customer Experience Podcast. You're going to love this one because I'm joined by a cofounder of a company who spent several years as chief operating officer before moving to chief marketing officer. They're leading a brand new category called content experience. There's a book in the works, so much going on with a company that we've evaluated several times here at bombomb. Love what they're up to. Welcome to the customer experience podcast, Randy fresh of UBERFLIP. Thanks so much, Eathan. I'm I'm excited to chat with you and love what you guys are doing at bombombs at this this will be fun. We probably will be speaking the same language, for sure. That's a that's the fun thing about being able to host these conversations is carvering some time out of the day to catch up. I always like to start with this question. Can you define, because be because the definitions are many and I'm trying to work toward, over the course of the next hundred conversations, some semblance of a clear picture that's informed by some of the best people working and operating in in growing businesses today. Can you define customer experience? What does that mean to you? What are some of its characteristics? That's it's a great question. Even the problem with terms like that is you get a hundred people in the room and you'll get a hundred different definitions. And you know the book I wrote, which kind of pokes a bit at another term, which is content marketing, which will get to, has the same problem. Right, you know what role are you in and and what do you care about? And I know for your podcast you have a wide audience of people who listen to this, from marketers to sales leaders to success leaders, and I think the definition of customer experiences different to all them, and that's part of the problem right, you know, because all of us have to unite around this common understanding of what a customer experience is. Now no different than the the space that I'm in, which is content experience, which in many ways has as tie backs to content experience. I often really really explain content experience in a simple way, which I think we can pull over here. With content experience, it's as simple as any time your audience encounters content, what is that feel like for them? You know, what is it look like from an environment perspective, how we structured those steps of people go through and how do we ultimately engage them? So I think about it in that same those three ways, environment, structure and engagement, and I think that a lot of us can. Can you customer experience in the same way? You know, it's, you know, it's going a little bit beyond content, if you will, although content often exist at many of these customer experience touch points. But, you know, think about the environment that we put people in, you know, into, think about the way we structure the steps that they're going to take and think about the ways that we engage them to continue that journey, if you will, and you know so we can. We can tie this to so many different areas, software and retail experiences, where is customers. We just think about that journey that we go through. That's great, I love it and I want to go one step deeper there. But you're right at one of the quotes that motivated me to go in this direction, as as thinking about if I can, if I can, get the time of smart people like you and talk about things. What do I want to talk about? And... was one of the quotes that motivated me in this direction, with Seth Goden' see, you know, if it's noticed, it's marketing, which you know in a way it's just talking about customer experience, because you know as a marketer, he says that and therefore everything is marketing and all people are marketers and you did a nice job, they're saying. You know, content is is a microcosm of the experience overall, and the way think, the way you and and your team think about content experience, you can also think of about customer experience in the same context. So let's get really specific there. What is contents role? So when you step back and you are looking holistically at the entire customer experience, how do you describe contents role in there? Where are some of the best roles that it can play? Are the most important roles that can play in a broader, holistic view of customer experience? Yeah, it's a great question and it's something that I don't think we actually think enough about. I think when you think about content, most of us are first thought goes to the people on our team who are content marketers, right, and we associate that content is simply creating content. So as long as we are creating content, we're doing content marketing or we are in the content marketing game or we're all in on content. That that's that's kind of only the first step, right. It would be like saying I'm going to go, you know, build a fort for my kids and I'm going to go get all this would now I'm done right, you know, or I built the Fort, I'm done. Well, no, I have to create some sort of interactive experience with that for it. So my kids care, right, so they want to get involved in that and I think that's the part that a lot of us kind of take a step back, I'll pull this back to your your area of expertise, which is customer experience. You know, I can't tell you how often I hear this with content experience. Something going to bet you'll you'll tell me it's the same. People will say something like, you know what, that whole customer experience thing, that's something we're really going to you know, take a look at next year, right, or that's like a queue. Fourth thing for us. You know, we're really going to go deep on on customer experience or content experiencing queue for and I laugh at that because it's that person thinking like, oh, it's not something I have to deal with it until I decide to deal with it. I'm going to deal with other things. What we ignore is that anytime, as I said earlier, that someone encounters your content or in your case, and encounters the brand in many other ways, they have an experience. So it's more of a question of is the experience we're putting forward winning or losing deals for us? And and that's when you start to say Holy Shit, like yeah, I am, I losing deals because I'm ignoring this or whose owning it? And and that that's really what led me to the book that I wrote that comes out at you know, in on March, six of nineteen. Is this idea that we're so wrapped up on the idea of creating content that we don't think about mapping that content to a buyer journey. We don't think about, you know, the way we put that content to be, everything from the basics of mobile friendly, which I still can't believe we're talking about ten plus years later. Crap. Yeah, it's like still some people are like, Oh shit, yeah, how is that going to look up? But it goes way beyond that. It goes into nail things such as, you know, how do we recommend other content? Right? How do we deliver experiences in the same way that brands like spotify in Netflix of one us over through, you know, putting us in this immersive experience for week we click on one piece to the next. Yeah, so it's you've already you've already kind of walked around it a little bit. I just want to give give people the opportunity to understand this content experience framework that you've built and I believe you probably unpack. I've only read the introductory chapter to the book and I am looking forward to its release here really soon. But this environment, structure, discoverability and engagement, I believe, are probably fundamental to the framework. Can you speak a little bit very specifically to this content experience framework? Yeah, for sure. You know, the first question... why do we even need a framework? Right, you know, we have so many frameworks thrown at us. You know my favorite one. So go back to university. I still love squat, right, like yeah, right, it's amazing. Who doesn't use Swat on a daily basis? We should always be evaluating things in that way. But you know, the reality is, in anything, I get to do a lot of kind of round table discussion sometimes with marketers and one of those questions we all love and around table is tell me that campaign that you're really proud of, right, and everyone goes around and they like talk about this awesome thing that they did in marketing and how well it connected and everyone's in a while I'll challenge someone to say, like, okay, how did you scale that? And then they look at me and that like and know you just asked you like one really good use case. We didn't scale that, but it were really well that one time, right, and I think that's you know, that's just a one of those bunny anecdotes of this thing that, you know, we have to keep our the perspective that we have to keep when we look at and experiences is that creating one is great, but it make us an a war, like a marketing award or whatnot, but it's not necessarily going to help us always scale the business. And that's where, you know, the expectation today of our audiences is that we will deliver personalized experience with deliver compelling experiences at every stage of the buyer tre write. This ties perfectly back to that overall customer experience yet again. And so to do that, how are we going to go take that on? And that's why we need a framework like the content experience framework. What it does is, and to clarify that, has nothing to do with creating content. Right, like, if you're looking for a content marketing creation framework, do not read this book at this is not a book for content marketers. It's not going to outline like the key to creating like the ultimate blog post. Listen, so I've only read the opening chapter, but I would say before you create a piece of content, read this book right after you read the book. Then you can go get, you know, the eighteen best tips on how to make a blog post, how to make a you know, an interactive web page. That answers the top three questions. I think this one probably goes first. The way you're describing it. I agree that. In fact, I believe you mentioned you have a great guess coming up. Who will tell you how to great, great content on your podcast, which is a in Hanley right, like and it's fantastic. She'll tell you how to write that great content. But this will help you think about how we're going to map that content and all the different instances. The problem is a lot of us get overwhelmed its scale. Right. So what this framework does is it takes you through five steps and the book, or I should say the second part of the book, is fully focused on the framework through a combination of stories and actual marking examples. But some of the stories are just fun and funny. I'll, you know, take credit for that. Hopefully think I'm funny after you read it. My Wife, not always. She's got a good sense of humor, though. But you know, the first step of the framework that we go through is the the idea of centralizing your content. It's so important for us to actually have a home for our content that we can direct people to. I'll give you a quick story that it's not even in the book. Is this one just happened this past week. There is a company WHO's trying to sell the me right now, right, software company. I'm not going to I'm not going to embarrass by saying the company name or I don't even what it rhymes with. But but the irony here. You're going to love this and people maze piece together. Their tagline is only experience, right. So yeah, let's not embarrass them beyond that. But I've got one of their reps who's emailing me. I'm on the regular cadence every other week and the emails, they're pretty good, actually taking the time to personalize, make sense. Talks about my company, talks about what they could do, but then he always links out to a piece of content, right, and the funny...

...thing I always look at is he's got me controlled there. I'm in an email between me and him, there's no other distractions. He sends me to watch this video each time. It's a different video every time, but it's on Youtube, right, and the problem there is you know, this is where it comes back to centralizing. He can own that experience. Their Youtube's going to recommend a whole bunch of other content to me at the right one, right. You know, there's actually he's got the video titled Properly. It's going to be probably a lot of competitoring, competing ideas, if not competing companies, that I'm going to be served up after I watch his or her video. Exactly. So the video itself is fantastic. It's a great video, but glaring at me in the bottom corners this video by war about Warren Buffets Ten keys to success in two thousand and nineteen, and I'm like, Ben, I want to be rich like Warren Buffett, right, like that's what I care about, a act, not how to go on the experience anymore. So I you know, this is just an anecdote to help you understand this idea of centralizing content. Right, we move on from centralizing to organizing. Not The sexiest part, I will I will admit some of the stories are great in the book, but the idea there is is the tagging, the auditing that we have to do of our content to be able to move on to the next step. That next step is all the personalizing content, right, and that's the one part, that's the part that you know, we talked about at the round table. We love to talk about these examples, but the ability to do so, it's scale because you've invested time and effort in those first two steps, which is centralizing organizing. That's what sets you up to be able to scale once you've personalized, once you've built out these experiences, and there's so many great ones that we go through that our marketing strategies is kind of comes to your earlier question than on, like the different ways that content can be using. It gets used in ABM, it gets used in Inbail, it gets using to manage, it gets using sales enablement. Right. We just think of those terms that we don't think content first. But try and execute any of those strategies without content, right, it's right or to every campaign. So once we personalized for all those different ways that we're going to market, then we move on to step forwardich is distribution, and that's how we're going to get the content into the hands. But that's I don't want to take anything weight. That's easy at that point right, right now, it's often combersome. It's hard. Right. If if it's our marketing team and we're doing an email inside of a marketing automation platform, then we'll go we'll jump in there and we're struggling to figure out what content to link to, right, or we take this approach that update you to consume seven pieces of content, which IDG says is the average number that we need you to consume through seven emails, versus thinking, how do I send you to one email? We you'll consume seven pieces at the same time. Right. I mean that's that's a big jump in productivity and acome and back to this whole idea we're talking about. That's a better experience, right. That's the experience that you and I expect on spotify that gets us to listen to to these days, a hundred and twelve artists a month versus sixty eight artists a month three years ago. spotify did that just by introducing the idea of recommendations. Yep, yeah, I love that to the adjacency and it's one of the reasons we were so serious about implementing your software. Is, instead of wondering what warm Buffetts got for me, I'm wondering. Oh Gosh, they solve this problem too. Oh, I can watch a video on this. Oh, I can check out a pdf about that. In this controlled environment you're talking about. Did I miss number five? I got centralized, organized, personalized distribution and generating results. Right. I mean that that's what we're all in this for, and you know as much, as it's a framework to this point, that kind of goes step by step. The generating of results happened as you do those first four steps. So it's not like all of a sudden like okay, now we have to make sure this works. You know that's not how marketing works. We have to be doing the things along these stages to make sure that we can first of all track, we can analyze, but we can also convert people,...

...right. I mean this is we're talking about, of a marking funnel. We're talking about different stages that content is supporting, right. We talked about in them, we talked about epm there, we talked about sales enablement. Those are happening and, depending on how you look at your funnel, at anywhere from the lead mql stage down to you when you're in Essayo stage and trying to convert someone at that revenue stage. I've had many people who have commented already on reading early copies of book. It's a I'm taking a lot of this into what we're doing from a customer success perspective, because content is the key to US building a relationship that sustains and ensures it when renewal time comes. We're thought of as a trusted advisor to this organization right and I think that that speaks to the spirit of the podcast. Two of you know, we talked about especially when we're producing marketing materials, we're thinking about generating leads, nurturing leads, converting leads, maybe to the point of on boarding leads, and and that that experience. And then the other side of the house is going to manage it from there, because sales and marketing or joined at the hip and we do all this work together, and a lot of that is the content marketing, or at least you know I'm I'm going to walk it back just in the spirit of your book and you in the spirit of how you teach all of this around content experience. It's, you know, that's content production essentially, and most of that lives over in sales and marketing. The CS side of the House is, you know, how do you make sure someone successful? How do you double down on the successful people, how do you rescue the ones who are unsuccessful, and how do you, you know, work them all to you know, advocacy and ultimately, referrals and and all these other things that we want out of happy, successful customers and content is court of that whole experience. Again, something really interesting and looking at your background, Randy, in addition to cofounding the company, you know you started as chief operating off from change in speeds a little bit. But again, just to draw this line of handoffs from sales to marketing to see us, I assume that it's chief operating officer, you oversaw a lot of that, or at least had per view into, you know, how this works. While can you talk a little bit about your experience in managing either? We have a lot of experiences going on here and I want to get quickly to the live in person experience of the conference you you all are running to, but can just spend a minute on how serving as a chief operating officer put you in a great position to transition to marketing and and to see maybe customer experience and content experience differently. Yeah, so early days it was kind of by necessity that I took on more of a CEO style rule then then a pure marketing yeah, I am a marketer at heart. I grew up wanting to be a marketer. The fact that I not only get to be a CMO at this stage but you know, of a Marquette company that I was involved them in starting, is is a dream come true. So I'm kind of living the dream, as I just said there, but doing that CEO Gig where I had and so today I have a few other parts of the Organization reported to me, definitely gives you an understanding of that entire buyer journey right. You know, throughout different times in the in the business, I've had everything from sales through CS and as well as fine and its reporting to me. So you start to understand the cost and you also start to understand that that everything we do in marketing is for nothing if the other pieces aren't working right. I mean one of our core values here at a reflect really ties into the idea of what it means to be an entrepreneur and I am the last one to say that being an entrepreneurs about starting a business. It's about owning what's in front of you. Right, like that's what it's all about. And you know there's there's one of the analogies I'll sometimes use is think of of that car that is pulled over in the ditch. I'm in Toronto now, where there's like way too much now, so you see this happening a lot, sure, and there's there's an exponential di difference from when you between when you go from two to three people...

...trying to push that car versus three to four. Right, like when you get one person on every wheel, that thing just moves. Right when you got three people, you know, if you can't think of the car one because you're in a warm climate, your kind of never get stuck. I think of like moving that awkward dining room table right where you got like two people on two corners and one person kind of like straddling the rest of the load. It just doesn't work right. You need all areas of the business operating together in unison. If one piece lets up, that car is not moving, that table is not moving. It falls of bricks right and and that's the viewpoint I got in that CEO roll is what's working well on our success ast side was working well on sales, marketing and other parts of the business, of course, including product and whatnot. You know, and what do we need to do to get everyone to communicate better and to make sure you know? I'll bring this back to the topic. We have that there were delivering a great customer experience. Right in every point feels the same, and I actually the last, I think it's last chapter of the book, I talked about a time where we didn't have that down well, right, like we're not perfect here. I think every company goes to that, see, and there was a point we had this this concept that we would use to explain what we did to customers. So we don't use it as much anymore. It was it was called the content experience wheel. So it's before we had a framework and it was it was a lot less thought out, and part of it being less thought out is everyone had a different name for it, right. So customer success called it the death star, right, like like like an evil killing machine. Lats buy in there a lot of buy and parts of marketing we're calling at the connext wheel. I I'll take credit. I had this idea that we should call it the helm, like, you know, fearing a ship. So all of a sudden you had all these visuals going through the company and, as a result, what would that mean for a customer? Right like you, you hit under Ethan is. You know, eventually we want to advocacy. What is what our advocates going to go tell their you know, the people they're going to refer that we are. Are we all wheel at helm or a death start right? It's just like it's really scary. So we have to find ways to make sure that we have that same narrative, that same experience at the end of the day, at every stage of the buyer journey and internally throughout the organization. Hey, before I get to the way we like to close this, Randy, talk a little bit about the live experience that your team is creating with connects. You know, why the live experience? How does that serve the company or the community or, you know, people thinking about how to implement content experience, like why the live event and where does that plug into the whole thing for you all? Absolutely so. So this will be the fourth year that we do connects, since for content experience, it happens in Toronto towards end of August. This year's the twenty of the twenty two. We had seven hundred fifty people last year. It's a fourth year, but in the second year we made a big strategic change on the conference. We dropped UBERFLIP from it. Essentially cool so he's called the Uber Flip experience. We dropped UBERFLIP. We remove product keynotes we really needed about thought leadership and pulling together a movement of people who believe the greeting contents not enough, that we have to use that content. So it's not just content marketers you come out to this thing. It's Demandagen marketers, it's digital marketers, it's sales people were who are have a passion for, you know, being better. It had to communicate at the end of the day, and it's become quite a movement as well. At last year, the first year that I don't know if you know, Jay bear of convincing burt. Yeah, partnered with convincing convert and Jay to ultimately take this event to the next level and and we really did that last year. This week I'm actually securing all of our...

...speakers for this year. It's a ton of fun. I was kidd that it's a one time of year I get to feel like a general manager for like a sports team forever. Right. My roster is even better than last year exactly. You know you want to sign everyone, but you know you've got a cap that you got to work within. So it's a lot of fun and you know it's not your regular conference, and I know a lot of people say that, but you know we do fun, silly things, but we also walk away with really transformative ideas and great networking sessions, including the first day, which is all workshop based. So it's a great opportunity and you know, I look forward to welcoming a lot of the peoplefully listening to this to Toronto. And if you want to get a taste of it, we're actually in the midst of a road show of eight cities. Just wrapped up Atlanta. WE'VE GOT AUSTIN COMING UP, BOSTON, Chicago, Seattle's and Jose, Toronto a few others along. They're awesome. So road show any day across the continent and Toronto and August sounds awesome. It doesn't snow in August, right, of course not. And I think Michigan, I wish it came with Canadian citizenship and I've been to Toronto several times. A great city, even in the winter. You just gotta have decatitions. We Michigan State or you have them. Guy, University of Michigan Alumnus. Yeah, to the big has funds. It was fun. Yeah, it's that's yeah, that that is an experience in and of itself. I recommended to everyone, even if you are not a fan. Hey, because we're all about relationships here at bombomb and. On the customer experience podcast I like to give everyone a chance to to mention or thank someone who's had a really positive experience on your life or on your career in and give a shout out to a company that's doing customer experience really well. Oh Wow, okay, that's a fun one. So I will definitely think my family. I mean, I can't, I not do there. But you know, when you get into more of the workspace, you know, in shaping the ideas, I think it's the opportunity to interact with people. The podcast you're doing now is definitely amazing for the audience, but it helps you right. So it's a lot of the guests. I run a weekly podcast. You know, we're I think we're over two hundred episodes now and you know, just interacting with marketers on a day to day is so important and I think it pushes us to remember that as marketers, as sales eater, success leaders, we got to talk to our customers and we got to talk to people in the field. So I definitely think people who just push me in that way on the company that inspires me. I still emit and in impressed with slack. Like the experience that they deliver, you know, the consistency of their brand and narrative. I'm not crazy about the new logo, but it's a whole episode in and of itself, I know. But but you know, they they deliver a consistent customer experience to your point, and you know their content, their their help desk, their product. It all speaks in the same language and I think that's something a lot of us should really reflect on. That's great. I've received that answer to that question before, so they're obviously doing it right. Last thing, you know, you have a book, you have a company, you have a conference, you have a podcast. This is your chance to date, if anyone enjoyed any aspect of this conversation and they want to take it further by connecting with you or the conference or the book or the Company Online. Lay It all out. How could people find you? How can people take the next step on any of the stuff that we just covered? Yeah, now there's there's a lot going on. I'm so excited for you all. Thanks so much. At the best place to go to interact with me these days, kind of as essential point, is my website. So not you can go to Uger flipcom to learn about Uger flip, but if you want to learn more about me and get your hands on the book, Go to be randcom. So that's like brandcom with the...

...most of my friends actually call me rand, not randy. So we're gonna have fun with the branding there. If you have and it can go there, you can get an ex into the book. You can buy it on Amazon as of March six and from there as well you can see some of my favorite podcast episodes that we've got posted there, and some of the speaking that I do on a regular basis is posted there too. Awesome, Brancom Rant, I'm go ahead and elevate my relation. Where is nows? I love it. Thank you so much for your time. Really enjoyed it. So much good stuff and there were some some shoots I wanted to run down, but I knew we just go too long and I want to respect your time in that of the listener. So thank you so much for your time and hope you have a great rest of your afternoon. Thanks so much. Thank you. You're listening to the customer experience podcast. No matter your role in delivering value and serving customers, you're in trusting some of your most important and valuable messages to faceless digital communication. You can do better. rehumanize the experience by getting face to face through simple personal videos. Learn more and get started free at bomb bombcom. You've been listening to the customer experience podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player or visit bomb bombcom. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (233)