The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

3. Why Content Experiences Beat Content Marketing w/ Randy Frisch


You feel cheated.

You‘ve tried to create amazing content to win the content marketing game.

And yet your revenue hasn’t shot through the roof. Why?

The problem isn’t your content, it is how you’re putting it all together.

You need to put your content into a content experience framework according to my podcast guest Randy Frisch, who is CMO at Uberflip, a speaker, and author of F#ck Content Marketing: Focus on Content Experience to Drive Demand, Revenue & Relationships.

The perspective that we have to keep anwe look at at experiences is that creating one is great but, and it mayget us in a war like a marketing award or whatnot, but it's not necessarilygoing to help us always scale. The business you're. Listening to the customerexperience podcast a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businessesrestore a personal human touch throughout the customer life cycle, getready to hear how sales marketing and customer success experts surprise anddelight and never lose sign of their customers. Humanity here is your hostbeef and Beaute e. thank so much for clicking play onthis episode of the Customer Experience Podcast you're going to love this onebecause I'm joined by a cofounder of a company who spent several years aschief operating officer before moving to chief marketing officer they're,leading a brand new category called content experience. There's a book inthe works so much going on with a company that we've evaluated severaltimes here at Bombam love. What they're up to welcome to the customerexperience podcast Randy Frish of uberflip thanks so much Eten, I'mmakecite to chat with you and love what you guys are doing at Bombab, so thisthis will be fun. We probably will be speaking the same language for sure.That's a that's! The Fun thing about being able to host these conversationsis carving some time out of the day to catch up. I always like to start withthis question: can you define because, because the definitions are many andI'm trying to work toward over the course of the next hundredconversations, some semblance of a clear picture, that's informed by someof the best people working and operating in growing businesses today?Can you define customer experience? What does that mean to you? What aresome of its characteristics? That's AIT's, a great question o. Then theproblem with terms like that is you get a hundred people in a room and you'llget a hundred different definitions, and you know the book. I rode whichkind of pokes abited at another term, which is content marketing which willget to has the same problem right. You know what role are you in and and what doyou care about- and I know for your podcast Yava, wide audience of peoplewho listen to this from marketers to sales leaders to success leaders and Ithink the definition of customer experiences different toll them andthat's part of the problem right yeah, because all of us have to unite aroundthis common understanding of what a customer experience is now no different than e the space that I'min, which is content, experience which in many ways as tiebacks contentexperience, I avten you know, really really explain, conden experience in asimple way, which I think we can pull over here with content experience, it'sas simple as anytime, your audience encounters content. What is that feel like for them? You know what doesit look like from an environment perspective, how we structured thosesteps of people go through and how do we ultimately engage? So I think aboutit in that same those three ways: environment, structure and engagement,and I think that a lot of us can giv ye customer experience in the same way.You know it's, you know it's going a little bit beyond content, if you will,although content often existit many of these customer experience touchpoints,but you know think about the environment that we put people in inyou know into think about the way we structure the steps that they're goingto take and think about the ways that we engage them to continue that journey.If you will- and you know so, we can- we can tie this to so many differentareas, software and retail experiences where you know his customers. We justthink about that journey that we go through. That's great. I love it and Iwant to go one step deeper there, but you're right at one of the quotes thatmotivated me to go in this direction as I was thinking about y. u know if I can,if I can get the time of smart people like you and talk about things. What doI want to talk about, and it was one of...

...the quotes that motivated me in thisdirection with Seth Godens. You know if it's noticed it's marketing, which youknow in a ways just talking about customerexperience, because you know as a marketer. He says that and thereforeeverything is marketing and all people are marketers and you did a nice jobthere saying you know. Contents is a microcosm of the experience overall inthe way think the way you and and your team think about content experience.You can also think about customer experience in the same context. Solet's get really specific there. What is contents role? So when you step back-and you are looking holistically at the entire customer experience, how Odo youdescribe contents role in there, what are some of the best rules that it canplay are the most important roles it can play in a broader holistic view ofcustomer experience. Yeah, it's a great question and it's something that Idon't think we actually think enough about. I think when you think aboutcontent most of us, our first thought goes to the people on our team, who arecontent, marketers right and we assosate that content is simplycreating content. So, as long as we are creating content, we are doing contentmarketing or we are in the content, margeting game or we're all in oncontent. You th that's that's kind of only the the first step right. It wouldbe like saying I'M gonna go. You know, build a fort for my kids and I'm goingto go. Get all this wood. Now, I'm done right. You know where I' built the FortI'm done well. No, I have to create some sort of interactive experiencewith that for it. So my kids care right, so they want to get involved in thatand I think that's the part that a lot of us know kind of take a step.Backi'll pull this back to your your area, expertise, wich is customerexperience. You know, I can't tell you how often I hear this with contentexprence and I'm going to bet. Youll feell. Tell me the same people saysomething like you know what that whole customer experience thing. That'ssomething we're really going to! You know take a look at next year right orthat's like a t for thing for us, yeah Kno we're really going to go deep on oncustomer experience or content experiencing q for- and I laugh at thatbecause it's that person thinking like. Oh, it's not something I have to dealwith until I decide to deal with it, I'm going to deal with other things.What we ignore is that any time as I said earlier, that someone encountersyour content or in your ocase and encounters the brand in many other waysthey have an experience. So it's more of a question of is the experience orputting forward winning or losing deals for us and that's when you start to sayHoly Shit Leg Yah am I losing deals because I'm ignoring this or who'sowning it and and that that's really what led me to the book that I wrotethat comes out. You know on March, Sixth of nineteen. Is this idea that we're so wrapped upon the idea of creating content that we don't think about mapping that contentto a buyer journey? We don't think about. You know the way we put thatcontent to be everything from the basics of mobile friendly, which Istill can't believe we're talking about ten clas years later, crab yeah, it'slike still. Some people are like, Oh shit, yeah. How is that Cin look up ob,but it goes way beyond that. It goes into NAI things such as you know. Howdo we recommend other content right? How do we deliver experiences in thesame way that brands like spotify and Netflix of one as over through you knowputting us in this immersive experience wher? We we click on one piece to thenext yeah, so it's you've already you'vealready kind of walked around it a little bit. I just want to give givepeople the opportunity to understand this content experience framework thatyou've built- and I believe you probably unpack. I've- only read theintroductory chapter to the book and I am looking forward to its release herereally soon, but this environment structure, discoverability andengagement, I believe, are probably fundamental to the framework. Can youspeak a little bit very specifically to this content experience framework yeahfor sure you know. The first question... Why do we even need a frameworkright, Yoa K O we have so many frameworks thrown at US know myfavorite one stil go back to university. I still love squat right, like yeah tright, it's amazing who doesn't use Swat on adaily basis. We should alwaysbe evaluating things in that way, but you know the reality is an anything Igete to do a lot of of kind of round table discussion, sometimes withmarketers and you one of those questions we all love in around tableis tell me that campaign that you're really proud of right and everyone goesaround and they like talk about this awesome thing that they did inmarketing and how well it connected and every once in a while I'll challenge,someone to say like okay, how did you scale that and then they look at me andthey'r? Like I don't know you just aske for like one really good newscapes, wedidn't scale that, but it were really well that one time right- and I thinkthat's you know- that's just a one of those bunny anecdotes of this thingthat you we have to keep our the perspective that we have to keep hen.We look at and experiences is that creating one is great but, and it mayget us in a war like a marketing award or whatnot, but it's not necessarilygoing to help us always scale the business, and that's where you know theexpectation today of our audience. S is that we will deliver personalizedexperience with deliver compelling experiences at every stage of theBietri right. This has perfectly back to that overall customer experience yetagain, nd, so to do that. How are we going to go? Take that on and that'swhy we need a framework like the content experience framework what itdoes is and toclarify it has nothing to do with creating content right like ifyou're looking for a content, marketing creation framework do not read thisbook, and this is not a brok for content marketers. It's not going tooutline like the key tocreating like the ultimate blodpost. Well S, so I've only read the opening chapter, butI would say before you create a piece of content. Read this book rightafteryou read the book, then you can go get you know the eighteen best tips on howto make a blog post how to make a you know an interactive web page thatanswers the top three questions. I think this one probably goes first, theway you're describing it. I agree that, in fact, I believe you mentioned youhave a great guest coming up. Who will tell you how toncreprate content onyour podcast, which is an Hanley right, ik, ands, fantastic she'll? Tell youhow to write that great content, but this will help you think about howwe're going to map that content and all the different instances. The problem isa lot of us get overwhelmed its scale right. So what this framework does istakes you through five steps and then the book or I should say the secondpart of the book- is fully focused on the framework through a combination ofstories and actual marketing examples. But some of the stories were just findit funny I'll. You know, take credit for that. Ouyo! Think, I'm funny afteryou read it. My wife not always she's got a good sense of Camra that, but youknow the first step of the framework that we go through. Is You know the theidea of centralizing your content and it's so important for us to actuallyhave a home for our content that we can direct people to I'll? Give you a quickstory that it's not even in the book s this one just happened this past weekthere is a company WHO's trying to sell the me right now, right softwarecompany M, not Gon, I'm not going to embarrass by seeing the company name orot even what it rhymes with. But but the irony here, you're going to lovethis and people mase piece together. Their tigline is only experience right,so yeah l, ' Let's ty embarrass them beyond that. But I've got one of theirreps WHO's. femailing me I'm on the regular cadence every other week and the emails they're pretty good,actually taking the time to personalize make sense. He talks about my companytalks about what they can do, but then he always links into a piece of contentright and the funny thing I always look... is she's got me controld there, I'man an email between me and him. There's no other distractions. She sends me towatch this video each time. It's a different video every time, but it's onYoutube right and the problem there is. You know this is where it comes back tocentralizing Kek an own that experience thereyoutubes going to recommend a whole bunch of other content to me attheright. Oe Right, you know, there's if he's got the video titled Properly,it's going to be probably a lot of competitor n competing ideas, if notcompeting companies that I'm going to be served up after I watch his or hervideo exactly so. The video itself is fantastic. It's a great video butglaring at me in the bottom, corners thes, video by war about or buffets tenkeys to success in two thousand and nineteen, and I'm like ten. I want tobe rich, like warn Buffett right, like that's what I care about AC, not how togo ownlhe experience anymore. So I you know this is just an anecdote to help.You understand this idea of sentralizing content right. We move onfrom centralizing to organizing, not the sexiest part I wonti will admit.Some of the stories are great in the book, but the idea there is is thetagging, the auditing that we have to do in our content to be able to move onto the next step. That next step is all Bo. personalizing content right andthat's the one part, that's the part that you know we talked about it, theRoundtabu. We love to talk about these examples, but it the ability to do soits scale, because you've invested time and effort in those first two stepswhich is centralizing and organizing. That's what sets you up to be able toscale once you personalized once you built ot, these experiences O so manygreat ones that we go through, that Ar Marketing stratees just kind of comesto your earlier question. You Tan not like the different ways that contentgive music it gets used in ABM. It gets used in Inman, it gets USI temangergets using sales enablement right. We just think on those terms at we don'tthink content first, but try and execute any of those strategies withoutcontact right. It's right forward to every campaign, so once we personalizefor all those different ways that we're going to market, then we move on tostep, forrd, wishis distribution and that's how we're going to get thecontent into the hands. But that's I don't want to take anything. Wait!That's easy at that point right right now. It's often combersome it's hardright. If, if it's our marketing team and we're doing an email inside of amarketing automation platform, then we'll go, you know we'll jump in thereand you know we're struggling to figure out what content to link to right or wetaking this approach that ill get e to consume seven pieces of content, whichidg says, is the average number that we need you to consume through sevenemails versus thinking? How do I send you to one email, wer you'll consumeseven pieces. At the same time, right I mean that's, that's a big jumpinproductivity and iuncome, and back to this whole idea we're talking aboutthat's a better experience right. That's the experience that you and Iexpect on spotify that gets us to listen to these days. A hundred andtwelve artists a month versus sixty eight artist a month three years ago,Spotifi did that just by introducing the idea of recommendations, Yep yeah,I love that to the adjacency and it's one of the reasons we were were soserious about implementing your software is instead of wondering whatwarm buffets got for me. I'm wondering Oh Gosh. They solve this problem too.Oh, I can watch a video on this. Oh, I can check out a pdf about that in thiscontrolled environment. You're talking about doging, thiss number five, I gotcentralized organized personalized distribution and generating resultsright. I mean that's what we're all in this for- and you know it as much asit's Apramework to this point, that kind of goes step by Sep. Thegenerating of result happens as you do those first four steps. So it's notlike all of a sudden like okay. Now we have to make sure this works. You knowthat's not how marketing works. We have to be doing the things along thesestages to make sure that we can first of all track. We can analyze, but wecan also convert people right. I mean...

...this is Y, we're talking about of amarking funnel we're talking about different stages. That content issupporting right. We talked about in band, we talked about APM there. Wetalked about Sales Endablement, you K, O those are happening and, depending onhow you look at your funnel and anywhere from the led mql stage down toyou, know when you're an Sao stage and trying to convert someone ato at thatrevenue stage. I've had many people who have commented already on y readingearly copies of, but that say, I'm taking a lot of this into what we'redoing from a customer success pect perspective, because content is the keyto us, building a relationship that sustains and insures that, when renewaltime comes, were thought of as a trusted adviser to this organizationright, and I think that that speaks to the spir of the podcast. To of you know, we talk about I, especiallywhen we're producing marketing materials, we're thinking aboutgenerating leads, nurturing, leads converting leads, maybe to the point ofon boarding, leads and that that experience and then the other side ofthe house is going to manage it from there because sales and marketing orjoined it the hip, and we do all this work together and a lot of that is thecontent marketing, or at least you know, I'm I'm going to walk it back just inthe spirit of your book and an in the spirit of how you teach all of thisaround content experience. It's you know, that's content, productionessentially and most of that lives over in sales and marketing the CS side ofthe house. Is You know? How do you make sure someone successful? How do youdouble down on the successful people? How do you rescue the ones who areunsuccessful and how do you you know, work them all to you know Advocaci andultimately, referrals and all these other things that we want out of happy.Successful customers and content is quarter o that whole experience againtsomething it really interesting. In looking at your background, Randy inaddition to cofounding the company, you know he started, has chief operatingoff sor, I'm changing speeds a little bit, but again just to draw this lineof handoffs from sales to marketing. To CS. I assume that is chief operatingofficer. You oversaw a lot of that or at least had purview into. You know howthis works. Wele C talk a little bit about your experience in managingeither. We have a lot of experiences going on here and I want to get quicklyto the live in person. Experience of the conference you you all running to,but can y? U Ju, t spend a minute on how serving is a chief operatingofficer. Put you in a great position to transition to marketing a and to seemaybe customer experience and content experience differently, yeah so early days, it was kind of bynecessity that I took on more of a COO style rule. Then then a pure marketing,a yeah. I am a marketer at hard. I grew up wanting to be a marketer. The factthat I not only get to be a CMO at this stage, but you know of a Marqet companythat I was afalled Im in you know. Starting is, is a dream come true, soI'm kind of living the dream, as I just said there, but doing that too Gig, where I had ituntil today, I have a few other parts of the organization reported to me. Youow definitely gives you an understanding of that entire buyerjourne right, you know, through a different times in the in the business.I've had everything from sales through CS and as well as finance reporting tome. So you start to understand the cost, and you also start to understand. Youknow that that everything we do in marketing is for nothing. If the otherpieces aren't working right. I mean one of our corte values here. Ady reflectreally ties into the idea of what it means to be an entrepremeur, and I am the last one to say that being anentrepreneurs but starting a business, it's about owning. What's in front ofyou, I ht like that's what it's all about and yeah there's there's one ofthe analogies a'll, sometimes use is think of a bad card that is pulled overin the ditch I'm in Toronto. Now, where there's like way too much now, so yousee this happening a lot sure and there's there's an expodentialdifference from when you between, when... go from two to three people, tryingto push that car versus three to four right like when you get one person onevery wheel. That thing just moves right. When you got three people, youknow you can't think of the car one because you're in a warm climate, youkint never get stuck. I think of like moving that awkward dining room tableright where you got like two people on two corners and one person kind of likestraddling the rest of the load. It just doesn't work right. You mean allareas of the business operating together in unison. If one piece letsup that car is not moving that table's not moving, it falls at breaks rightand and that's t e. The viewpoint I got in that Clorole is what's working well on our success side. What's working well onsales, marketing and other parts of the business, of course, including productand whatnot, you know, and what do we need to do to get everyone tocommunicate better and to make sure Knoni'll bring this back to the topic?We have that that were delivering a great customer experience right andevery touchpoint feels the same, and I actually ow the last. I think it's lastchapter the book. I talked about a time where we didn't have that down. Wellright, like we're not perfect here, I think every company goes tro that sate,and there was a point we had this this concept- that we would use toexplain what we did to customers and we don't use it as much anymore. It was.It was called the content experience wheel. So s before we had a frameworkand it was, it was a lot less thought it and part of the being less thoughtout. Is everyone had a different name for it? Righ to customer success calledin the death star right like like, like an evil killing machine labi. In there a Lotof byin parts ofmarketing were calling at the CONEX wheel. I I'll take credit. I had thisidea that we should call it the helm, like you know, tearing a ship. So, allof a sudden, you had all these visuals going through the company and as aresult, what would that mean for a customer right like Yo, you hit on aneath, and is you know eventually we want to advecasy what is what are radvocates going to go? Tell their you know the people they're going to referthat we are. Are we a wheel at hell or a death? Stat right? It's just likeit's really scary. So we have to find ways to make sure that we have thatsame narrative that same experience at the end of the day, at every stage ofthe buyer journey and internally throughout the organization hey beforeI get to the way we like to close. This randy talk a little bit about the liveexperience that your team is creating with Conex. You know why the liveexperience, how does that serve the company or the community? Or you know,people thinking about how to implement content experience like hy, why thelive event, and where does that plug into the whole thing? For you all?Absolutely so so this will be the fourth year that we do conex sense forcontent experience. It happens in Toronto towards and of August thisyears, the Twentet of the twenty. Second, we had seven hundred and fiftypeople last year, it's borth year, but in the second year we made a bigSTRATEGICC change on the conference. We dropped UPERFLOP from it. EssentiallyGreat Soheis called the overflip experience. We drop duper flippingrehob product ky nets. We really needed a bed, thought leadership and pullingtogether a movement of people who believe that greating contents, notenough that we have to use that content. So it's not just contem marketers. Youcome up to this thing. It's demanden marketers, it's GINGETAL, marketers,it's sales. People work who are Ou know have a passion for Y, U Ow being betterat how they communicate at the end of the day, and it's become you know quitea movement as well last year s the first year that I don't know if youknow Jj bear of convincinurt yeah partnered with convincing convert and Jto ultimately take this event to the next level, a D- And we really did thatlast year this week, I'm actually...

...securing all of our speakers. For thisyear, it's a ton of fun. I was kiddided that one time of year I get to feellike a general manager for like a sports team, Friv right, my raster iseven better than last year. Exactly exactly you know, you want to signeveryone, but you know you've got a cap that you got to work within. So it's a lot of fun and you know it's notyour regular conference and I know a lot of people say that, but you know wedo fun silly things, but we also walk away with really transformative ideasand great networking sessions, including the first day which is allworkshop base. So it's a great opportunity and you know I look forwardto welcoming a lot of the people ofuly listening to this to Toorto and if youwant to get taste of it, we're actually in the midst of of a road show OAcities just wrapped up Atlanta, we'VE GOT AUSTIN COMING UP: BOSTON, ChicagoSeattle, San Ose, Toronto, a few others along there awesome so rodshow any dayacross the continent and Toronto and August sounds awesome. It doesn't snowin August right, of course, not SAIDIACA in Michigan. I wish it camewith Canadian citizenship and I've been to Toronto several times I a great city,even in the winter you just got to have secetiencs. Were you in Michigan StateOre, Youofm Guy University of Michigan, alumnous Yeah Big, has fun. Se was funyeah. It's that's yeah that that is an experience in an of itself. I recommendit to everyone, even if you are not a fan, hey because we're all aboutrelationships here at Bombam and on the customer experience podcast, I like togive everyone a chance to mention or thank someone. Who's had a reallypositive experience on your life or on your career and give a shout out to acompany. That's doing customer experience really. Well! Oh Wow. Okay, that's a fun one, so I will definitelythink my family. I mean I can't a't not do there, but you know when you getinto more the work space you know and shaping the ideas. I think it's theopportunity to interact with people the podcast you're doing now is definitelyamazing for the audience, but it helps you right. So it's a lot of the guests.I rent a weekly podcast, you know were, I think, we're over two hundredepisodes now, and you know just interacting with marketers on a daytoday is so important, and I think it pushes us to remember that as marketersas Sales Inor Success Leaders, We got to talk to our customers and we got totalk to people in the field. So I definitely think people who just pushme in that way on the company that inspires me, I still Amit and Impresse, with slack like the experience that they deliver. Youknow the consistency of their brand and narrative, I'm not crazy about the newlogo, but it's a whole episode in of itself. I know, but but you know they,they deliver a consistent customer experience to your point and you knotheir content, their their health desk their product. It all speaks in thesame language and I think that's something. A lot of us should reallyreflect on. That's great I've received that answer to that question before so.They're, obviously doing it right last thing: You know you have a book, youhave a company, you have a conference, you have a podcast. This is your chanceto at. If anyone enjoyed any aspect of this conversation and they want to takeit further by connecting with you or the conference or the book or thecompany online lay it all out. How could people find you? How can peopletake the next step on any of the stuff that we just covered? Yeah, noththere's a lot going on, I'm so excited for you all. Thank so much thebest place to go to interact with me. These days. Kind of has ssential pointis my website. So not you can go to overflucom to Lindan but overflip, butif you want to learn more about me and get your hands on the book go to BDashrancom. So that's like brandcom...

...with the dash most of my friends,actually call me rand, not Randy, so we'r gonna have fun with the brandingthere. If you have, and if you go there, you can get an exen of the book, youcan buy it on Amazon. As a march six and from there as well, you can seesome ofmy favorite podcast episodes that we've got posted there and knowsome of the speaking that I do on a regular basis is posted there toawesome, B, Randcom Rant, I'm go ahead and elevate, myroaerboes now I love thank you so much for your time really enjoyed it so muchgood stuff and there were some some shoots I wanted to run down, but I knewwe just go too long and I want to respect your time and that of thalistener. So thank you so much for your time and hope you have a great rest ofyour afternoon thanks so much you thank you. You are listening to the customerexperience podcast, no matter your role in delivering value and servingcustomers. You're intrusting, some of your most important and valuablemessages to faceless digital communication. You can do betterrehumonize. The experience by getting face to face through simple personalvideos, learn more and get started. Free at Bombomcom. You've beenlistening to the customer experience podcast to ensure that you never missan episode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player or visitBom bomcom. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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