The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

32. Meeting Customers’ Evolving Needs with a Customer Experience Team w/ Luke Owen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You only think you’ve built a great relationship with a client.

But...you didn’t check up on how their goals are evolving.

Churn, churn, churn.

I got to talk to Luke Owen, Director of Customer Experience at Formstack, about what it means to have the words “customer experience” in his job title.

“For me, customer experience is the heart and soul of an organization that supersedes that relationship with the client,” Luke said.

 

Customer experience is sort of theheartresoul of an organization that supersedes that relationship with theclient. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host eat an beaute, hey welcome back to the customerexperience podcast if you've been with us for a while. First thank you andsecond, you may have noticed that we've only had a few folks on the show withcustomer experience and his or her title, and they tend to be advisors,consultant speakers in that type. So today we have a gentleman who hascustomer experience in his title. Will talk a little bit about that inparticular, he spent more than four years in hub spot and accountmanagement spent four and a half years, his director of customer success atBedrock data he's currently the director of customer experience atFormstack, Luke Owen, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you.The lot of beer good really really looking forward to this, I want to getinto kind of the title, the rule the structure a little bit and I thinkthey're going to be some really fun nuances to get into there. But we'llstart where we always start with your definition or your thoughts orcharacteristics. You'd identify in customer experience as a concept sure.So for me, customer experience is sort of the hearter soul of an organizationthat supersedes that relationship with theclient right and keeps everybody aware of how strong that is: Orerpow, notstrong. That is, you know so that we can put in the right playbooks to you.W make that relationship at even stronger. So it's kind of like thishollistic view right. It's not like one team per se. It's sort of a sort of anorganization that has lots of moving parts, lots of different functionswithin it. Awesome you've done something that Ihave not heard. I don't think in asking that question, which is kind ofpersonified and like that in the heart and soul, piece and and you tapped intosomething that is probably one of the most challenging things about customerexperience, which is how do we get everyone on board? How do we createaholistic experience across the board, and how do we make sure that all ofthese different, I forget the term you used, but you know, departments, teamsilos, functions, parts of the organization Aral operating togetherjust for context before we go a lot farther. What does form stack do forfolks that might not be familiar. You know what are you doing for customers,sure so form stack little background for sex actually been around for quitesome time started around two thousand. A D. six is one of the first. You knowsort of Lo no code form applications that you can build. Stop in you websiteto start, you know getting people to fill out your form on your website...

...over the past few years. It's it's sortof migrated, it's platform into being way, Morpha sophisticated right. So allthe intake data that you would bring in from your forms can now start to beutilized ind sort of a back office way to help smooth operations out within anorganization, so lots of companies that fine form SECreally attractive nowadays. Are you know some of the edio health care? Youknow a for sexip Bot compliance. So a lot of these companies that you knowoperationally have a lot of ininefficiencies. If you will, Ihaven't quite gote inthe modern world, but now can through, like this verysophisticated form application. So it's really the sort of smoothing theworkforce. If you will operations Nice, and so it's part of that evolution Apis,where the data can then be put into all the places that various people mightneed. It WASL that it's interesting you bring that up. How I got to formstackwas actually through the bedrock data crew, because we got acquired byformstack earlier this year and part of the reason they acquired us. You knowcertainly we share the same values and the same mission, but they sort ofneeded this layer or needed to make this layer more sophisticated to takethat data they're getting from their forms and be able to start moving itaround a little bit more efficiently to various systems that some of theircustomers are areusing, awesome, love it and you actually answered a question.I was going to follow up with there, which is: How did you find them? Howdid they find you, but that already came out so for context? What do you doas director of customer experience? I think you know your background is anaccount management and CS in particular. What's in the title for you and for theorganization and maybe then also kind of how are you structured? How do youreport up? Who reports to you kind of what does this role mean in afunctional way, right right, so the role itself was: was there before me,of course, so customer experience, but I actually I love the way that they've structuredit to what I. What I focus on is the support organization and the SuccessOrganization, the success team that didn't quite exist until I got there.There was a one gentleman who was doing some. You Know Account Management,general success, type activities onboarding and things like that, but wasn't fully developed out in any way.So I'm helping to develop sort of that customer success. Account ManagementComponent of the experience team, as well as overseeing the support teamthat again has been there for for many many many years. There is anotherelement to the customer experience team. That's also very important to this sortof polistic. You know view I have of what customer experience is, which is aprofessional services, that's actually being developed. I don't oversee that.I've got a colleague that, along with her and me, are overseeing sort of thiswhole cusomer experience team that...

...comprises hom again support success.That's me. She runs to propro services. We have an operations believe it or not.We have a little bit cx operations that I like to kind of draw. I call it likeour our atmosphere, our protective ozone layer of the CX team coolon. Sowhat is op do in that scenario. Is that like texstack and data integrity orlike what is it? WHAT IS OPS in this context? Yeah? It is sort of thetexttack management and primarily for CX, at least at the support level. It'sen desk, so we use em desk at form stack, and so it's really bad teamkeeping that system as healthy as possible alongside some of the othersystems at obviously care or customer Data Sec, our sales horse cool. So whenyou get acchuired, you get this role. You get this title. What are like twoor three of the first things you did like assess the scene and then likewhat are a couple things that you said: okay, I'm going to start here, Andand,then. The reason I ask is you know so, for example, we have we have vp ofcustomer success who oversees a success organization and a support organization,and we have directors of both of those functions and, of course, all theprobably common rules that fall under those. Your structure is a little bitdifferent in. So if someone is in a situation like hours here at Bombam andthey want to move to a situation like you're in like when you get plugged inas director of customer experience, what does this scene look like? Andwhat do you think ofkay? These are the first two or three things I'm going totackle. So, given the support organization hadbeen there and pretty well established by a couple F folks that had beenrunning the team for about two or three years, one in particular had a strongbackground with apple retail and so s she was really running a tight ship. SoI looked at that team and they didn't have a lot to, let's say fix. If youwill, although everything always needs to grow with the team, you know thecompany's growing. There's a lot. A lot of these acquisitions there's a lot ofmoving parts that certainly need to be to be worked through and work togetheron, but she's got a pretty good along with another manager who recentlypromoted into the support team. Since it's growing, so I was really beenfocused on six on the customer. Success Management Team since that again didn'tquite exist. Besides just one individual and that's really, where Ikind of said: okay, we got to get our prostesses we're going to get our youknow. How are we working in so alongside sales? You know so. For themost part, sales had been the primary sort of manager of clients to someextent, and so here comes along this customer success team and it's like howdo we work together and really making sure that we're getting that sort ofrelationship between sales and see and customer success as harmonious aspossible? You know they, as you know, if you can't make a good experience inthat first niney days, you're in an uphill battle, so we have to reallyfocus in as much as we possibly can on how those two teams are going to work.Ogos, that's Relly, where my focus as been is kind of getting well and inhiring the CSMS. Let's be honest, th I...

...got in there one guy. We now have fiveCSMS, so that was mission critical. Of course,when we first gind in is just building that Tima cool. How do you organizeyour your CSMS? Is there like? Are the? Are they teared, based on account sizelike when you look to build that team out from scratch? GING, a masking onbehalf of someone that needs to do what you just did you know what were yourthoughts on how to how to hire and arrange those yeah? So I'm going toanswer it by saying there's a way I want to do it and there's a way we kindof had to do it to some extent, because so again, the background is withFarseck they've gone through a bit of a hiring acquisition spree over the last year.So beterock was the fourth or third or fourth acquisition in the last year. Sothere was a bunch o brands that are now part of the forms that world and thecustomers th. The idea is that it's custer success overseas, if you're aFORMSAT customer, if you're a beterock customer, if Youre webmerge customeryou're a formstack customer and we're going to be a customer success managerfor you at some level. So because of that we had to specialize a little bit.You know so we got two people from the support team that you know. Supportalways can be a great place to look for customer success managers, productriven, you know, so they've got a little bit that relationship driven.You know mindset some of that sales. Acting them can be a great place tokind of find some success managers, and so we brought two folks up from thesupport team, so one of them just happens to be experienced with one ofthose brands, so she's focused on that brand, as well as bedrock data, becausethey're both three technical and then there's Phe formstack, core sort ofsupport rap, so she's focused really on on formstack. We did bring one outsideenterprise. Customer sucest manager who wasn't within formstack, has a way toyou know, obviously I'm there as a director but and en an additionalleader to kind of be there along with this really junior team for the mostpart, so that was the only outside and she's just focused on enterprise is oneor more marqui clients Kindin, that's so so that's kind of specialized right.So it's very targeted in terms of like what you can work withat, a technicallevel. Ideally, what wed like to get to is more of it structure at a sort ofrevenue level. So if you're, you know paying anywhere from thrued N. ninetynine to you know six. Ninety nine you're in the small busyenow, midmarket team or small business team, and then we get to the mid market and thenget to enterprise, and it really doesn't matter which products you haveit's more we're going to tear it in that way. So it's makes it a little bitmore. You don't have to necessarily think about it at a product level and Ican get a little bit tricky and Harry because in as people buying moreproducts than you have to constantly be thinking about. Oh now, I got ta signthis out over here to this eand end that customer experience to starts tobreak down. So if you make it more...

...simplistic at a revenue level likely,you know, custers aren't going to be jumping that often, although you coursewant them to expand but they're, going to probably stay within a certaintraunch for a little while and have that customer experience sort of staysomewhat, hopefully the same the same person ever time really important. Ilove that this idea of being sensitive to you know breaking thoserelationships and starting new ones. You know the handoff from sales to CSis enough to manage. Well, you know and then handing additional handlingadditional handoffs beyond that can be tricky cool. I like it, it'sinteresting the situation and I can definitely see you going in the nextevolution or kind of the next expansion of the team to go. You know in thedirection that you've described once you have kind of the brands and productbreaks covered a bit and people start to grow. Let's get a little bit intoyour philosophy, I mean again, you have a you know a decade of experience inAccount Management and CS, which I guess actually. Let's start, there hada conversation with a guy that I work with and we're talking about CSIS in a way justbeing the new language for account, Management Talk a little bit abouteither or both of customer success or customer experience as kind of newlanguages, or they feel new, especially to someone younger in their career thathasn't seen. kind of the old become new, again talk a little bit about either orboth of those toms and kind of what they mean to you from a we've, beenworking on customer success, pretty much since we've been runningbusinesses, but we have this language and some practices around to talk aboutthat yeah. So I'll give you sort of my background right is, as you mentioned,or so years at hub spot and N. I started there two thousand and ten, andwhen I joined game they have this customer success management sort ofteam that was building out from the consulting team that they had, and Iyou know for me. I didn't quite know what that meant to some estand. But asI got into the role, it became kind of a running joke that we'd always be likeyou know, I'm your custer hsays manager and that's just a fancy way. Sayne youracount manager right, we contaent because clients of ours, you know hutspot, had all sorts of different kinds of custemers from mom and pop shops toyou know various big businesses and they didn't know what the heck ofcustomers success. MANTER was. We ended up actually changing the title at HousePot. I want to say maybe two years in when I was there, maybe in a year and ahalf or something like that from customers, success manager to accountmanager. He said: Let's stop, let's stop having to say that extra thingright. You guys work out, managers and then funny enough, and I still have mybusiness card fom when we were CSMS and I never got it change Y. U know we usebusiness cards and all those times, and then I left in two thousand and fifteenand we moved back to being called custer success managers. So I think itwas kind of like this evolution of the market just shoving it down. Businessessort of I want say throats, but hey that custers secess manater canessentially mean a dedicated person that helps you with your account over alife period of your Agat, which is kind...

...of a again. It's account Mane. So forme I it's I struggle with it to sometimesbecause, yes, we have custoers, because thets maners of the formsack, but to meit's not just one teet right, the or you know if we had a customer successteam at FORMSTACP. I probably structure it just like. I am doing it with thecustom just like they did it and how I'm adopting it with customerexperience that it is sort of this pillar of foundational functions thatinvolve that a ball around acount management and onboarding and customersupport Pro Services Right. So it's like those things andot themselves arcustomer success or customer experience whatever you want to call cool, let'sget a little bit into philosophy and I'll start with, and I've just got afew of these. For you, customer success is a philosophy not as a function. Thisgets a little bit back to holism, but I love you just kind of share yourperspective and maybe a couple things you've learned over the past decadearound around this yeah I mean, I think, to me it's pretty pretty obvious right.At the end of the day, you have to lead out with the customers. What kind ofvalue are they perceiving right to get out of your solution, or what do theywant to get and really centering all of your conversation from the beginning,sale right all the way to the ommoarding and throughout the life ofthat customer and really understanding what are your primary desired outcomes?Is they want to call it like? What do you want to achieve, and sometimes theydon't always know, and it's our job to help guide them to what those mightneed to be, and if we lead out with that right, not just say: Oh, you knowI have product ABNDC and that's what you know you woke up one morning sayingyou need it. We need to really be digging into not. This is the product Ihave for you, but your use case that you have or your desire. You know,outcomes that you have. I can help you with and it just wha happens. Thesesolutions can get you there and to me that philosophy has to has to be throughout the entireorganization. It can't just be this customer success team. That's carryingthat philosophy through has to be everybody and at the end of the day Y,you need to build the resources to continue to not just say wevesuccessfully sold them on letting them say hey. I can get my usecases implaentwith this product and then we're off. You know we're off to the new client.You have to continue to identify okay, I got that usecase implemented now,what's a new one, you want to do you know in seven months or eight months,Hor, something new, otherwise you're. Just it's just a static thing. o Isuccessfully did what I wanted to do and then, if there's no identificationof other new things, they want to do or other goals or other use cases andyou're, not tracking that, and you don't have a team. That's maintainingthat then that's where the sast model breaksapart, as we know you're just that that long tail is going to get chopped offthe minute they get bored of your product and it's so easy to leave out.So, if you're, not keeping that cycle...

...of usecase understanding and what theywant to get what their desire alcums are you're, not tracking it. You don'thave a process, whether that's a human being process, if you're a BTB companyselling a large Interpris susion or some automated team working through andtracking these things, then youyou're dead in the water over. I don't knowhow long you're going to be around, but it's going to take it'll happen yeah. So so, let's pick up on that, Ilove the documentation and the continued conversation or is such thatyou can retain and expand these accounts metrics and measures. So youknowe got traditional ones like churn and houte scores. I'd love to hear alittle bit more about the customer maturity index and when we werechatting before we hit record, you know you're working on something else, so Idon't know how secret it is, but you know I'd love to know how you see thefuture of metrics and measures of success so start with the traditionalGointo the maturity index and then share as much as you're, rilling andable sure so so, right, suren everybody always focusd. I on and it's important.We tend to look more specifically at net revenue retention at formstack, sokind of taken all that into one. You know consideration. You know we look atit from the Qorte R, a quarter basis. We look at Netretension, so it is a keyKPI for us. Don't give you wrong, but I always drugged with it. I think a lotof us do that. That's that's a that's a lagging intecate! You know it's not somuch. What should I be looking out for were should be focusing my time, so Istumbled upon bowses bosmaors right customer Maturity Index. I guess whatabout two years ago and to me it was kind of a lihtbold moment in someregard of that we always ask ourselves at Husspot. You know ' a lot of smartpeople there like how else can I say this customer success? GEAME is beingsuce like how are we, how are we measuring what the custer success Tamas doing and then ultimate leading to our customers being successful orpotentially successfuly? If you will like what kind of measurement can we doin there's alwayse lots of different like experiments and stuff like that,but nothing ver really seemed to stir, and so his idea really resnte it withme now what we're doing at formstack. So I don't know if you want me to go tithe details of what the CNLIT is, or maybe basics like like a quick drive byand again I'll link up to it in the in the blog post for anyone, that'slistening that wants to check it out, just go to Bombomcom podcast and thenall the all the blocg post will be posted there and I'll link it up. Butyeah just give a give a you know a couple lines on the CMI hure. So theidea is that, obviously everybody knows health scores generally speaking,you're building out sort of this score of like how healthy is the client basedon their usage of your product right so 's, it's more of a. How healthy is thatrelationship from with your customer and your product, which is important,it's great to have that insight, but in and of itself that's not a great sortof idea of how successful he might be or how happy to Mikht be or a theyaturn risk. If you know you got somebody using your product like crazy,but still be a churm risk, so he ad...

...this idea of the Cusbon returity index,which would be sitting alongside another access point with thehealthscore that really focus more on the relationship of your customersabilities to gain value out of your product. How structured are they intheir organization from things like? Have they used a product like yearsbefore? Who are the state colders? How many are there? Does this go all theway up to the sea seet? Or is it just some one employee, that's overseeingone department that that's bring ing. The SIN is an experiment and how likelywhat did they need to be successful in kind of gauging that sort of whateverthose attributes are for your business can vary. So it's building tad index,alongside with the healthscore, gives you this sort of Matrix that you canthen start plotting your custers on okay, they're using our product, butthey're not really set up to really understand how to gain that Balue right.So you have all these playbooks, based on the for quadrooms, that you havethat you can start to play out. You start to think like o top right. Thoseare people that are using our product and Aur Welt, positioned within theorganization based on their structure. They should be our success towards.Does it mean again? None of this means that these people are happy andOtturnrisk. It just means that's what they should be, and that's our playbookright me now to make them have you know be they should be our advocates and ourreferral mechanisms, and then the lower left, of course, are you're not usingyour product, not really structured. That well lot of effort to go in rightto tryg to make those people turn around, and sometimes you have to makedecisions right in our kind of businesses that you might just have toleave those folks alone for a little bit and start focusing on the areaswher. We have their oppotusion. That is that in the Nutshal right, an to me-and I have add this extra layer along your heath foot now how we're doingthat at form stack slightly different variation that we're starting to play.Ont, it's very early stages. I don't have any results, but it's kind ofbeing piloted right now, where we're taking this sort of approach of, if youthink about this journey right of a customer within a company like form,stack, orany software right, really any company, I guess there's all thesedifferent m periods and milestones that you have that you call this desiredoutcome right. I have a desired outcome on a feature. There's a feature Ireally like to would like to have. So I can do more things with your solutionright, that's a desire coming out. Maybe I needed immediately. Maybe it'sa nice to have so if you get in in six months, grate whatever it is, butthere's some desire there and then there's also down to like minew Shit.Things of I got a support ticket and it's turned into a bug and it'simpeding our ability to really use your product. Well, so I have a desiredoutcome of having that bug fixed an a certain time period tracking. Those is really trickey,because you've got all those things happening in various places. But ifyour orgazation, like Forsak, where you're building a customer successcomponent or account management team component whatere, we gwint to call itin this sort of layer customer experience. Then you have thisopportunity to have this team that...

...oversees their plients be able toidentify those desired outcomes and start tracking and creating literallyan activity feed, because that's what desired outcomes are they're going tohappen. They're going to happen multiple multiple times, some of themare going to have more importance to the likelihood of the customer beinghappy over a period of time. So you can start to kind of envision a similarsort of consie o Cmi, where you add a different layer of waiting cupmechanisms to those desired outcomes to give you that extra index alongsideyour product usage and that's how, where we're focusing our es, love. Itreally I'd love to follow up in like six to te six to ten months and to seehow it's going is really clever ways to later that lasting year before we kindof move on to a couple slightly more personal questions for fun threepillars of success. Here you know on boarding account management andsupporter kind of H, three pillars of success. Where do you see? Maybe foreach of those? Where do you maybe see people fall down, ARD, missedopportunities, or you know for someone, that's listening, hat's that that is incastor, CX, talk about the importance of these three pillars and maybe just apro tip around each of them yeah. I think it's easy for organizations to want to say right that they're aunified organization, but at the end of the day these are separate teams rightsupport has its functions and its processes. custoer success has itsfunctions and proceies and pro services and AU. You know whatever it is ttechnical services and support n engineers, they have their processesand teams and managers. So you know we're all under one umbrella, but wehave to. We have to have this vision right that were, we are one team youknow doesn't matter where you sit and where, where you might be in terms ofyour responsibilities with the client at the end of the daywere one bigoutfit called customer experience, and I think it's it's easy to like losethat I guess focus and lose that lose that vision, sometimes because, when wego back into like our respective teams were back into the Griand rightof theday today. So it's trying to kind of keep everybody you know reminding ofwhat is that Vision Uven? If it's not fully implemented right that moment andit it might still be a little just jointed and people are saying likewhen's this going to happen. What are we going to be like seen across bothintornalano organization and externally by our customers as this one, big giantorganization that can help you grow and be successfulh or with our business? Ithink it's just continuing to have that focus, even if things are going tothey're going to fall apart from time to time right and you just got to keepkeep people's energy up about where we're going to go, and it might takesix months or my take ten months or whatever. So that's the thing, don't doyou don't lose hope Bery, it's that's good for anyone, it's kind of a funquestion that I that I tend to ask people who specialize and I've askededacross all three of these kind of departments, marketing sales and CSI'll. Just ask this to you one way: What do you wish in your experience?What do you wish more sales people knew...

...or understood about customer success,great question. I love that question. What I wish they understood about co isthat were were partners with them and that we're not competitive but we'renot in a competitive space like we're not fighting to get. You know theupgrade. You know that that you might be also trying like sometimes you getthese various snarias of like sales is, you know, measured also on their retent,their ability to grow, theire install base and then csms come along, and it'slike wo wait a minute what's happening here like are they taking Morver myrelationship with this client and it has to be seen more as a partership?You know in that customer success is there to help really grow, thatcustomer together and hopefully benefits both of us of course, int endof day, but certainly you, sales person will wreak the benefits because we'llbe helping those customers use the product more and those expansion,opportunities and ough graportudies will come along the way, love it. Oneteam, don't lose hope so personal question just because I'mcurious and that's the fun opportunity I have is the host took the show totalk to smart folks, like you, you eren't a Bachelor of Science andphilosophy at the University of Vermont. Why Philosophy? And is there any kindof unique or surprising way that it's? You know you found yourself somewherealong your career. Druream said man, I'm so glad I have a background, anphilosophy right, so it's one of those stories right. You know backgroundseasy. How did I get into it? I was a business major starting out and I hatedthe professors by the end of the day. I had a hard time going into thatbuilding and actually feel like. I was going to have a a successfuleducational Al Outcome, whereas my philosophy classes, I loved all theprofessors engaged you know going in that building was was a breath of freshUire, and so for me it was like a now brainer like I don't want to go throughthise next, four years, not being happy with who I'm Ben Taugh by I'd rather goand have a boid relationship with my profressor. That was really the big.Obviously, at the end of the day, reason why I went to philosophy, I'msomebody who likes debate. I like having the ability to talk to peopleabout my ideas, afd my opinions, but also listen to them and try tounderstand their arguments, and I find that aspect of philosophy and what I learnedin that process has immensely helped me in what I've done over the last tenyears. In my career, working with customers all walks of life, you haveto really understand where they're coming from you can never assume rightthat somebody knows something that you might know or knows it in the same wayright and how they're talking to you about it. So to me that is such a greatbackground if you're somebody WHO's trying to get into customer servicesales, even just being able to understand how to have those dialoguesso good, I'm so glad I asked hey. This has been awesome. I've really enjoyedit, love what you're doing love that...

...you already have a vision for whereyou're going while you're you know turning you know, building this teamout under you know an acquisition and merge situation here, relationshipsAOUR number one core value here at Bombam and on the podcast, and so Ialways like to give you the chance at this point to thanker mention someonewho has a had a positive impact on your life for career and to give a mentionto a company that you really respect for the types of experiences they'redelivering to you as a customer. I've had some really. I mean it's a toughquestion, and yet I know you were going to ask it and I've been thinking back,my head like who, who has had the biggest impact and it's kind of one ofthe things where it's the most recent. I guess that I would say when I cameinto Vedroc. You know I came out of hub spot had a lot of experience, obviouslythere with the custorer experience, but not a ton of focus right. If you thinkabout it, it's like million things that you want to try to do when you get thisopportunity coming out of like being an intretor, protribator and wantedg togrow a team. It's like. Where do you focus? So I was, I admittedely,probably not focuse very well. When I was first at bedrock. We brought on a aCro Che, frevinue officer, probably around two thousand and thirteen, theMountin Topitro, and he his backgrounds logged me in he's- had tons ofexperiencein the Boston area in the revenue space, but he really helpedkind of hone my ability to focus on working through the problems thatneeded to be worked on the most, and I would say that experience andunderstanding that the sales relationship, tween sales and customerexperience customers, success, Iowa ton, so that man awesome how about a companythat you've had some good experiences with great experience. Well, you knowfor talking about from a business software. I guess experience. You knowI myself tend to try to limit how much texttack I have to be honest with you,so I don't. You know I use sale, Corse and I can't say too much about theirexperience. To be perfectly honest, but you know, in terms of I use evernone, Iabsolutely love ever notes. You know it's not a you know it's a one to manyexperiences product experience, what they do and how they help me guide likehow I can structure my notes and just little things th. The tech touches thatthey do. I think they're phenomenal company. In that regard, I am a biguser, though, at a music level I use all sorts of applications for music. Iuse from spotify to sound cloud to you know,use work press for for a blog that I used to run and medium. You know, soall those companies inspired the heck out of me. You know at a sort of how toLi make the experience. How can I somewhat Aryou know replicate some ofthose experiences of those companie do like spotify Netflix and thosecompanies and and bringing into the BTB space? Obviously with the not the datascientist that they've got but sort of be able to replicate that in some levelawesome. So you know take away there...

...for anyone. Listening is look aroundyou because you have everyday experiences that could be. You know ifyou're a little bit more conscious for intentional about it. You could aapplythe things that you're experiencing yourself and turn those into practicesand experiences for your customers every day. Luke. This has been awesome.How can someone connect with you or follow up with you and or with formstack wilmon twitter, pretty active on twitter, my handles Kip Oen, that's Kipfrom a nickname throughout high school and college and just never goes away,might as well keep it at kipboand. If you want to pig methere and also on Linketdon, you know it's pretty simple. Luke on cool andformstack is formstackcom formstack Yep, luked out Owen, AP formsackcom awesome.Thank you. So much for your time, thanks. so much for insights, continuedsuccess to you love the journey that you're on, and I really appreciate yourtime with us thanks yevn. Thank you, clear, communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance,so pick up the official book rehumonize Your Business, how personal videos,accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in order today atBombam Com book, that's bomb, tombcom fuck, thanks for listening to thecustomer experience. podcast remember the single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,continue learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now inyour favorite podcast player, or visit Bombomcom podcast.

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