The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

32. Meeting Customers’ Evolving Needs with a Customer Experience Team w/ Luke Owen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You only think you’ve built a great relationship with a client.

But...you didn’t check up on how their goals are evolving.

Churn, churn, churn.

I got to talk to Luke Owen, Director of Customer Experience at Formstack, about what it means to have the words “customer experience” in his job title.

“For me, customer experience is the heart and soul of an organization that supersedes that relationship with the client,” Luke said.

 

Customer experience is sort of the partnersoul of an organization that supersedes that relationship with the client. The single mostimportant thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience foryour customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way.This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. If you've been with us for awhile. First, thank you, and second you may have noticed thatwe've only had a few folks on the show with customer experience in his orher title, and they tend to be advisors, consultant speakers in that type. So today we have a gentleman who has customer experience in his title.Will talk a little bit about that in particular. He spent more than fouryears and hub spot and account management. Spent four and a half years asdirector of customer success at Bedrock data. He's currently the director of customer experienceat Form Stack Luke. Oh, and welcome to the customer experience podcast.Thank you, Athan. Wet to beer. Good, really, really looking forwardto this. I want to get into kind of the title, therole, the structure a little bit, and I think they're going to besome really fun nuances to get into there. But we'll start where we always start, with your definition or your thoughts or characteristics you'd identify in customer experienceas a concept. Sure. So, for me customer experience is sort ofthe heart and soul of an organization that supersedes that relationship with the client,right and keeps everybody aware of how strong that is or how not strong thatis, you know, so that we can put in the right playbooks toto make that relationship at even stronger. So it's kind of like this holisticview, right. It's not like one team per se. It's sort ofa sort of an organization that has lots of moving parts, lots of differentfunctions within it. Awesome, you've done something that I have not heard,I don't think, in asking that question, which is kind of personified in likethat in the heart and soul piece, and and you tapped into something thatis probably one of the most challenging things about customer experience, which ishow do we get everyone on board. How do we create a holistic experienceacross the board and how do we make sure that all of these different Iforget the term you used, but you know, department's team, silos,functions, parts of the organization are all operating together? Just for context,before we go a lot farther, what is form stack do for folks thatmight not be familiar? You know, what are you doing for customers?Sure, so form stack. Little background. Form Sex actually been around for quitesome time. Started around two thousand and six. Is One of thefirst, you know, sort of no code form applications that you can buildstop on your website to start, you know, getting people to fill outyour form on your website. Over the...

...past few years it's sort of migratedits platform into being way more for sophisticated right. So all the intake datathat you would bring in from your forms can now start to be utilized andsort of a back office where to help smooth operations out within the organization.So lots of companies that find form stact really attractive nowadays. Are, youknow, some of the eedu healthcare, you know, a form sex hip, a compliance. So a lot of these companies that operationally have a lotof inefficiencies, if you will, haven't quite gotten into the modern world,but now can through like the very sophisticated form application. So it's really thesort of smoothing the workforce, if you will, operations nice and so it'spart of that evolution. Apis where the data can then be put into allthe places that various people might need it. Well that it's interesting you bring thatup. How I got to form stack was actually through the bed rockdata crew, because we got acquired by form STAC earlier this year, andpart of the reason they acquired us, you know, certainly we share thesame values and the same mission, but they sort of need it this layer, or needed to make this layer more sophisticated, to take that data they'regetting from their forms and be able to start moving it around a little bitmore efficiently to very systems that some of their customers are are using. Awesome. Love it, and you actually answered a question I was going to followup with there, which is how did you find them? How did theyfind you? But that already came out. So for context, what do youdo as director of customer experience? I think you know your background isin Account Management and CE US in particular. What's in the title for you andfor the organization, and maybe then also kind of how are you structured? How do you report up? Who reports to you? Kind of whatdoes this role mean in a in a functional way? Right, right.So the role itself was was there before me, of course. So customerexperience, but I actually I love the way that they've structured it. Sowhat I what I focus on is the support organization and that the success organization, the success team. That didn't quite exist until I got there. Therewas a one gentleman who was doing some, you know, count management, generalsuccess type activities, on boarding and things like that, but wasn't fullydeveloped out in any way. So I'm helping to develop sort of that CustomerSuccess Account Management Component of the experienced team, as well as overseeing the support teamthat, again, has been there for for many, many, manyyears. There is another element to the customer experience team that's also very importantto this sort of holistic, you know, view I have of what customer experienceis we which is a professional services that's actually being developed. I don'toversee that. I've got a colleague that, along with her and me are overseeingsort of this whole customer experience team that comprises, of again, supportsuccess. That's me. She runs the...

...pro pro services. We have anoperations believe it or not, we have a little bit of CX operations thatI like to kind of draw I call like our our atmosphere, or protectiveozone layer of the CX team. Cool. And so what does opps do inthat scenario? Is that like text st AC and data integrity or like, what is it? What is opps in this context? Yeah, it'sit is sort of the text St Act Management and primarily for CX, atleast at the support level, it's Zendsk. So we use endesk at form stack, and so it's really that team keeping that system as healthy as possiblealongside some of the other systems at obviously care customer data, such as salesforce. Cool. So when you get acquired, you get this role,you get this title. What are like two or three of the first thingsyou did, like assess the scene, and then, like, what area couple things that you said? Okay, I'm going to start here, rightand then the reason I ask is, you know, so, for example, we have we have a VP of customer success, who oversees thesuccess organization and a support organization, and we have directors of both of thosefunctions and, of course all the probably common rules that fall under those.You were, structures a little bit different, and so if someone is in asituation like ours here at bombomb and they want to move to a situationlike you're in, like when you get plugged in as director of customer experience, what does this seem look like and what do you think? Okay,these are the first two or three things I'm going to tackle. So,given the support organization had been there and pretty well established by a couple offolks that have been running the team for about two or three years. Onein particular had a strong background with apple retail and so she was really runninga tight ship. So I looked at that team and they didn't have alot to let's say fix if you will, although everything always needs to grow withthe team. You know, the company's growing. There's a lot,a lot of these acquisitions, there's a lot of moving parts that certainly needto be to be worked through and work together on, but she's got apretty good along with another manager recently promoted into the support team, since it'sgrowing. So I was really been focused on the sixth on the customer SuccessManagement Team, since that again didn't quite exist besides just one individual. Andthat's really where I kind of said, okay, we got to get ourprocesses, we're going to get our how are we working in so alongside sales, you know, some the most part sales had been the primary sort ofmanager of clients to some extent, and so here comes along this customer successteam and it's like, how do we work together and really making sure thatwe're getting that sort of relationship between sales and seat and customer success as harmoniousas possible. You know, they as as you know, if you can'tmake a good experience in that first ninety days, you're in an uphill battle. So we have to really focus in as much as we possibly can onhow those two teams are going to work. He is. That's really where myfocus has been, is kind of getting well in hiring the CSMS.Let's be honest, I got in there...

...one guy. We now have fiveCSM's, so that was mission critical, of course, when we first Godand it's just building that team up. Cool. How do you organize youryour CSM's is as they're like? Are Are they tiered based on account size? Like when you look to build that team out from scratchin a masking onbehalf of someone that needs to do what you just did? You know,what were your thoughts on how to how to hire and arrange those? Yeah, so I'm going to answer it by saying there's a way I want todo it and there's a way we kind of had to do it to someextent because so, again, the background is with form set. They've gonethrough a bit of a hiring acquisitions free over the last year. So betterack was the fourth or third or fourth acquisition in the last year. Sothere was a bunch of brands that are now part of the form stack worldand the customers that could the ideas that it's customer success oververseas. If you'rea form stack customer, if you're a better rock customer, if you're webmerge customer, you're a form stack customer and we're going to be a customersuccess manager for you at some level. So because of that we had tospecialize a little bit, you know. So we got two people from thesupport team that, you know, support always can be a great place tolook for customer success managers. Product driven, you know, so they've got alittle bit of that relationship driven, you know, mindset, some ofthat sales acting then can be a great place to kind of find some successmanagers. And so we brought two folks up from the support team. Soone of them just happens to be experienced with one of those brands, soshe's focused on that brand as well as bet rock data because of both prettytechnical. And then there's the form stack core sort of support reps, soshe's focused really on form stack. We did bring one outside enterprise customer successmanager who wasn't with in form stact as a way to you know, obviouslyI'm there as a director but in an additional leader to kind of be therealong with this really junior team for the most part. So that was theonly outside and she's just focus on enterprise, some of our more marquee clients kindof thing. That's so. So that's kind of specialize right. Soit's very targeted in terms of like what you can work with at a technicallevel. Ideally, what would like to get to is more of its structureat a sort of revenue level. So if you're, you know, payinganywhere from three hundred and ninety nine to, you know, six hundred and ninetynine, you're in the small busin, you know, mid market team orsmall business team. And then we get to the midmarket and then weget to enterprise and it really doesn't matter which products you have. It's morewe're going to tier it in that way. So it's makes it a little bitmore you don't have to necessarily think about it at a product level,and I can get a little bit tricky and Harry because then as people buymore products, then you have to constantly be thinking about, oh now Igot US sign this out over here to the sea, and then that customerexperience this starts to break down. So if you make it more simplistic ata revenue level, likely, you know,...

...customers aren't going to be jumping thatoften, although you of course want them to expand, but they're goingto probably stay within a certain traunch for a little while and have that customerexperience sort of stay somewhat, hopefully the same, the same person every time, really important. I love that this idea of being sensitive to, youknow, breaking those relationships and starting new ones. You know, the handofffrom sales to SS is enough to manage well, you know, and thenhanding additional handling, additional handoffs beyond that can be tricky. Cool. Iit's interesting the situation and I can definitely see you going in the next evolutionor kind of the next expansion of the team to go, you know,in the direction that you've described, once you have kind of the brands andproduct breaks covered a bit and people start to to grow. Let's get alittle bit into your philosophy. I mean again, you have a you know, a decade of experience in Account Management and C S, which I guessactually let's start. They're at a conversation with a guy that I work withand we're talking about CS has, in a way just being the new languagefor account management. Talk a little bit about either or both of customer successor customer experience as kind of new languages or they feel new, especially tosomeone younger in their career that hasn't seen kind of the old become new again. Talk a little bit about either or both of those terms and kind ofwhat they mean to you from a we've been working on customer success pretty muchsince we've been running businesses, but we have this language in some practices aroundto talk about that. Yeah, so I'll give you sort of my background, right is, as you mentioned, or so years at hub spot andI started there in two thousand and ten and when I joined, you know, they had this customer success management sort of team that was building out fromthe consulting team that they had and I you know, for me I didn'tquite know what that meant to some extent, but as I got into the roleit became kind of a running joke that we'd always be like, youknow, I'm your customer success manager and that's just a fancy way saying youraccount manager. Right. We we constants in because clients of ours, youknow, hot spot had all sorts of different kinds of customers, from momand pop shops to, you know, various big businesses, and they didn'tknow what the Hecker Customer Success Manager was. We ended up actually changing the titleat hub spot, I want to say maybe two years in when Iwas here, maybe in the year and a half or something like that,from Customer Success Manager to Account Manager. You said let's stop, let's stophaving to say that extra thing, right you guys work out managers and then, funny enough, and I still have my business card phon when we wereCSMS and I never got it changed. You know who use business cards,and all those times, and then I left in two thousand and fifteen andwe moved back to being called customer success managers. So I think it waskind of like this evolution of the market, just shoving it down businesses sort ofI wouldn't say throats, but hey, that customer success manager can essentially meana dedicated person that helps you with your account over a life period ofyour which is kind of a again,...

...it's account manager. So for me, I it's I struggle with it to sometimes because yes, we have customersbecause as managers the form stack, but to me it's not just one teamwrite the or. You know, if we had a customer success team atform stack, I probably structure it just like I am doing it, withthe customer just like they did it and how I'm adopting it a with customerexperience that it is sort of this pillar of foundational functions that involved that aball around account management and on boarding and customer support proservices, right. Soit's like those things in another themselves are customer success or customer experience, whateveryou want to call cool. Let's get a little bit into philosophy and I'llstart with, and I've just got a few of these for you, customersuccess as a philosophy, not as a function. This gets a little bitback to wholism, but I love you just kind of share your perspective andmaybe a couple things you've learned over the past decade around around this. Yeah, I mean, I think to me it's pretty pretty obvious. Right atthe end of the day, you have to lead out with the customers.What kind of value are they perceiving right to get out of your solution,or what do they want to get, and really centering all of your conversationfrom the beginning sale right all the way to the onboarding and throughout the lifeof that customer and really understanding what are your primary desired outcomes, as theywant to call it, what do you want to achieve? And sometimes theydon't always know, and it's our job to help guide them to what thosemight need to be. And if we lead out with that right, notto say, Oh, you know, I have product A, B andC and that's what you know. You woke up one morning saying you needit. We need to really be digging into not this is the product Ihave for you, but your use case that you have or your desire,you know, outcomes that you have I can help you with and it justso happens these solutions can get you there. And to me that philosophy has tohas to be throughout the entire organization. It can't just be this customer successteam that's carrying that philosophy through. has to be everybody and at theend of the day, your you need to build the resources to continue tonot just say I'll weave successfully sold them on, letting them say, Hey, I can get my use cases imployment with this product and then we're all, you know, we're off to the new client. You have to continueto identify, okay, I got that use case, implement it. Now, what's a new one you want to do? You know in seven monthsor eight months there's something new. Otherwise you're just it's just a static thingor successfully did what I want to do. And then if there's no identification ofother new things they want to do or other goals or other use casesand you're not tracking that and you don't have a team that's maintaining that,then that's where the SASS model breaks apart as we know it. You're justthat that long tail is going to get chopped off the minute they get boredof your product and it's so easy to leave it out. So if you'renot keeping that cycle of use case understanding...

...and what they want to get,what their desire outcomes, are you not tracking that? You don't have aprocess, whether that's a human being process, if you're a BB company selling alarge inner preest solution, or some automated team working through and tracking thesethings, and you're you're dead in the water. Over, I don't knowhow long you're going to be around, but it's going to take. It'llhappen. Yeah, so so let's pick up on that. I love thedocumentation and the continued conversation or that is such that you can retain and expandthese accounts metrics and measures. So you know got traditional ones like churn andhealth scores. I'd love to hear a little bit more about the customer MaturityIndex. And when we were chatting before we hit record, you know you'reworking on something else. So I don't know how secret it is, butyou know, I'd love to know how you see the future of metrics andmeasures of success. So start with the traditional going to the maturity index andthen share as much as you're willing and able. Sure. So, soright churn. Everybody always focusing on and it's important. We tend to lookmore specifically at net revenue, retention, at form stack, so kind oftaking all that into one you know, consideration, you know, we lookat it from a quarter to quarter basis. We look at net retension. Soit is a key KPI for us. Don't don't get me wrong, butI always struggled with it. I think a lot of us do.That that's that's a that's a lagging in the kit. You know, it'snot so much what should I be looking out for, Worre should be focusingmy time? So I stumbled upon bowses bowse mayors right customer Maturity Index,I guess what about two years ago, and to me it was kind ofa light bulb moment in some regard of that. We always are asking ourselvesat hut spot I you know a lot of smart people. They're of like, how else can I say this customer success team is being success. Likehow are we? How are we measuring what the customer success team was doingand then ultimately leading to our customers being successful, or potentially successful, ifyou will? Like what kind of measurement can we do? And is alwayslots of different like experiments and stuff like that, but nothing really seemed tostick, and so his idea really Reson it with me now what we're doingat form stack. So I don't know if you want me to go intodetails of what the CMI is or maybe basics, like like a quick driveby, and again I'll link up to it in the in the block post. For anyone that's listening that wants to check it out. Just go tobombombcom slash podcast and then all the all the blog post will be posted thereand I'll link it up. But yeah, just give a give a, youknow, a couple lines on the CMI here. So the idea isthat obviously everybody knows health scores. Generally speaking, you're building out sort ofthis score of like how healthy is the client based on their usage of yourproduct? Right, so it's more of a how healthy is that relationship fromwith your customer and your product, which is important. It's great to havethat insight, but in and of itself that's not a great sort of ideaof how successful they might be. Are How happy it might be, orare they a churn risk it? You know you have somebody using your productlike crazy but still be a churn risk.

So he add this idea of thecustomer maturity index, which would be sitting alongside another access point with thehealth score, that really focus more on the relationship of your customers abilities togain value out of your product. How structured are they in their organization,from things like have they used a product like yours before? Who are thestakeholders? How many are there? Does this go all the way up tothe sea suite or is it just some one employee that's overseeing one department,that's that's bringing this in as an experiment? And how likely, what do theyneed to be successful in kind of gaging that sort of whatever those attributesare for your business can vary. So it's building that index alongside with theHealth Score, gives you this sort of Matrix that you can then start plottingyour customs on. Okay, they're using our product, but they're not reallyset up to really understand how to gain that value. Right. So youhave all these playbooks based on the four quadrons that you have that you canstart to play out. You start to think like, oh, top right, those are people that are using our product and our wealth positioned within theorganization. Based on their structure, they should be our success stories. Doesit mean? Again, none of this means that these people are happy andI'm not turn risk. It just means that's what they should be and that'sour playbook, right. We now to make them happy, you know,be they should be our our advocates and our referral mechanisms. And then thelower left, of course, are you're not using your products, not reallystructured that well, lot of effort to go in right to try to makethose people turn around, and sometimes you have to make decisions, right inour kind of businesses, that you might just have to leave those folks alonefor a little bit and start focusing on the areas we have their opportunity.And that is that, in the nutshell, right. and to me, andI open to add this extra layer along your health scool. Now,how we're doing that at forms to act slightly different variation that we're starting toplay out. It's very early stage. Is I don't have any results,but it's kind of being piloted right now where we're taking this sort of approachof if you think about this journey, right, of a customer within acompany like form stack or any software or it really any company, I guessthere's all these different periods and milestones that you have that you call this desiredoutcome. Right, I have a desired outcome on a feature. There's afeature I really like to it. Would like to have so I can domore things with your solution. Right, that's a desire to coming now.Maybe I needed immediately, maybe it's a nice to have. So if youget it in six months, great, whatever it is, but there's somedesire there. And then there's also down to the like its minutia things up. I got a support ticket and it's turned into a bug and it's impedingour ability to really use your product. Well, so I have a desiredoutcome of having that bug fixed in a certain time period. Tracking those isreally tricky because you've got all those things happening in various places. But ifyour organization like forsac where you're building a customer success component, or Account ManagementTeam Component, whatever we want to call it, in this sort of layerof customer experience. Then you have this opportunity to have this team that overseestheir clients be able to identify those desired...

...outcomes and start tracking and creating literallyan activity fee, because that's what desired outcomes are. They're going to happen, they're going to happen multiple, multiple times. Some of them are goingto have more importance to the likelihood of the customer being happy over a periodof time. So you can start to kind of envision a similar sort ofconstituted cmi where you add a different layer of waiting mechanisms to those desired outcomesto give you that extra index alongside your product usage. That's kind of wherewe're focusing our love. It really I'd love to follow up in like sixto ten, six to ten months and to see how it's going. Isreally clever ways to layer that lasting here. Before we kind of move on toa couple slightly more personal questions for fun. Three pillars of success here, you know, onboarding, account management and support, or kind of thethree pillars of success. Where do you see maybe for each of those,where do you maybe see people fall down or missed opportunities or, you know, for someone that's that's listening, it's that that is in C S orCx. Talk about the importance of these three pillars and maybe a just apro tip around each of them. Yeah, I think it's easy for organizations towant to say right that they're a unified organization, but at the endof the day these are separate teams. Right, support has its functions andits processes, customer success has its functions in the processes and pro services andon, you know, whatever it is, technical services and support engineers, theyhave their processes and teams and managers. So you know, you we're allunder one umbrella, but we have to we have to have this visionright, that were we are one team, you know, doesn't matter where yousit and where you might be in terms of your responsibilities with the client, at the end of the day we're one big outfit called customer experience,and I think it's it's easy to like lose that, I guess, focusand lose that, lose that vision sometimes because when we go back into likeour respective teams were, back into the brind right of the daytoday. Soit's trying to kind of keep everybody, you know, reminding of what isthat vision, even if it's not fully implemented right that moment and it maystill be a little disjoint. It in people are saying like, when's thisgoing to happen? When are we going to be like seeing across both internallyand organization and externally by our customers as is one big giant organization that canhelp you grow and be successful with our with our business. I think it'sjust continuing to have that focus, even if things are going to they're goingto fall apart from time to time, right, and you just got tokeep keep people's energy up about where we're going to go. And it mighttake six months or might take ten months or whatever. So that's the thing. Don't you don't lose helpe very it. It's gets good for anyone. Kindof a fun question that I that I tend to ask people who specializeand I've asked it across all three of these kind of department's marketing, salesand see us. I'll just ask this to you one way. What doyou wish in your experience? What do you wish more sales people knew orunderstood about customer success? Great Question.

I love that question. What Iwish they understood about is that we're we're partners with them and that we're notcompetitives. We're not in a competitive space, like we're not fighting to get,you know, the upgrade. You know that that you might be alsotry. Like sometimes you get these various scenarios of like sales has, youknow, measured also on their retent with their ability to grow their install base, and then CSMS come along and it's like, Whoa, Whoa, waita minute, what's happening here, like, are they taking over my relationship withthis client? And it has to be seen more as a partnership,you know, in that customer success is there to help really grow that customertogether and hopefully benefits both of us, of course, the end of day, but certainly you salesperson will reap the benefits because we'll be helping those customersuse the product more and those expansion opportunities and up grappatudos will come along theway. Love it one team. Don't lose hope. So personal question,just because I'm curious and that's the fun opportunity I have as the host ofthe show to talk to smart folks like you. You aren't a Bachelor ofScience and philosophy at the University of Vermont. Why Philosophy, and is there anykind of unique or surprising way that it's you know, you found yourselfsomewhere along your career dream said man, I'm so glad I have a backgroundphilosophy. Right. So it's one of those stories, right. I.You know, backgrounds easy. I. How did I get into it?I was a business major starting out and I hated the professor's right the endof the day, I had a hard time going into that building and actuallyfeeling like I was going to have a successful educational outcome, whereas I'm likephilosophy classes, I loved all the professors engaged, you know, going intothat building was was a breath of press here, and so for me itwas like a nobrainer, like I don't want to go through this next fouryears not being happy with who I'm being taught by. I'd rather go andhave a good relationship with my profressor. That was really the big obviously,at the end of day, reason why I went to philosophy. I'm somebodywho likes debate. I like having the ability to talk to people about myideas, of my opinions, but also listen to them and try to understandtheir arguments and I find that aspect of philosophy and what I learned in thatprocess has immensely helped me in what I've done over the last ten years ofmy career. Working with customers all walks of life. You have to reallyunderstand where they're coming from. You can never assume right that somebody knows somethingthat you might know or knows it in the same way right and how they'retalking to you about it. So to me that is such a great backgroundif you're somebody WHO's trying to get into customer service sales. Even just beingable to understand how to have those dialogs so good. I'm so glad Iasked. Hey, this has been awesome. I've really enjoyed it. Love whatyou're doing. Love that you already have a vision for where you're goingwhile you're, you know, turning,...

...you know, building this team outunder you know, an acquisition and merge situation here. Relationships are our numberone core value here at bombomb and on the podcast and so I always liketo give you the chance at this point to think or mention someone who's hasa had a positive impact on your life or career and to give a mentionto a company that you really respect for the types of experiences they're delivering toyou as a customer. I've had some really I mean it's a tough questionand yet I know you were going to ask him. I've been thinking aboutin my head, like who who has had the biggest impact, and it'skind of one of those things where it's the most recent. I guess thatI would say when I came into bed rock. You know, I cameout of hub spot. Had A lot of experience, obviously there with thecustomer experience, but not a ton of focus. Right. If you thinkabout it, it's like million things that you want to try to do whenyou get this opportunity coming out of like being an interest or contributor and wantedto grow a team. It's like where do you focus? So I wasI admittedly, probably not focus very well. When I was first at bed rock. We brought on a crow chief Evan Officer, probably around two thousandand thirteen the amount, and de Petro and he his backgrounds log me in. He's had tons of experience in the Boston area in the revenue space,but he really helped kind of tone my ability to focus on working through theproblems that needed to be worked on the most. And I would say thatexperience and understanding that the sales relationship between sales and customer experience, customer success. I owe a ton to that man. Awesome. How about a company thatyou've had some good experiences with great experience? Well, you know,for talking about from a business software, I guess experience. You know,I myself tend to try to limit how much TEXTAC I have to be honestwith you, so I don't. You know, I use sales force andI can't say too much about their experience, to be perfectly honest. But youknow, in terms of I use every note. I absolutely love evernotes. You know, it's not a you know, it's a one toomany experiences of product experience, what they do and how they help me guide, like how I can structure my notes and just little things that the techtouches that they do. I think there are phenomenal company in that regard.I am a big user, though, at a music level. I useall sorts of applications for music. I use from spotify to soundcloud to,you know, use workpress for for a blog that I used to run,and medium, you know. So all those companies inspire the heck out ofme, you know, at a sort of how do I make the experience? How can I somewhat are you know, replicate some of those experiences of thosecompany do like spotify, Netflix and those companies, and bringing into theBB space, obviously with the not the data scientists that they've got, butsort of be able to replicate that in some level? Awesome. So Iyou know, take away there for anyone...

...listening is look around you, becauseyou have everyday experiences that could be you know, if you're a little bitmore conscious or intentional about it, you could apply the things that you're experiencingyourself and and turn those into practices and experiences for your customers every day loop. This has been awesome. How can someone connect with you or follow upwith you and or with form stack whim on twitter. Pretty active on twitter. My handles KIP Owen. That's Kip from a nickname throughout high school andcollege and just never goes away. Might as well. Keep it at Kipohand if you want to pay me there and also on Linkedin. You know, it's pretty simple. Luke Owen cool and form stack is form stackcom,form stack, Yep loop, dot Owen a form stackcom. Awesome. Thankyou so much for your time. Thanks so much for your insights. Continuedsuccess to you. Love the journey that you're on and I really appreciate yourtime with us. Thanks Eve. Thank you. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video tothe messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a littleguidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videosaccelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at BombombcomBook. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to createand deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tacticsby subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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