The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

33. What Your Marketing Team's Doing That's Probably Illegal w/ Sharon Toerek

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

After “What’s the meaning of life?”, here’s the next most important question:

Do I need permission to repost this?

Can’t answer the first one for you, but the second one is a gigantic yes.

I sat down with Sharon Toerek, Intellectual Property and Marketing Law Attorney who helps creative professionals protect, enforce and monetize their creative assets. Her work with small advertising and marketing entrepreneurs is driven by her understanding of customer experience. 

“Customer experience means to me that at the end of the day, at the end of the transaction, did the customer feel heard? Did they feel seen?” Sharon said.



If you're going to repost the contentof another person, you need their permission. You just do. The single mostimportant thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experiencefor your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte.Welcome back to the customer experience podcast. Today's guests, who am very excitedis with us, is an intellectual property and marketing law attorney who helps creativeprofessionals protect, enforce and monetize their creative assets. She is very active asa board member and board director and support small businesses and entrepreneurship, so wemay get into that. She's worked with jump start, the National Small BusinessAssociation, Greater Cleveland Partnership, the Council of small enterprises and more. She'sa two time speaker at inbound, which is hub spots annual conference. She'salso spoken at content marketing world, so we'll get a little bit into marketingtalk. She also hosts the Innovative Agency podcast share and toric welcome to thecustomer experience podcast. So much even I'm so excited to be here with youtoday. Yeah, we've we've actually met in person, which is something Ican't say about all of our guests, and I'm really excited to have youon the show. We're going to we're going to get at a variety ofthings. I would like to maybe talk a little bit about small business entrepreneurship. Definitely marketing. Definitely law. That's a really unique expertise that you bringto the show that I think is going to be really relevant to a lotof seats in the house and a variety of organizations. But will start withyour thoughts or your definition or characteristics. When I say customer experience, whatcomes to mind for you? Yeah, it's it's definitely abroad, potentially abroadtopic. I think customer experience means to me that at the end of theday, at the end of the transaction, if you're a transactional business, orat the end of the project, if you're somebody who works on goon an ongoing basis with your client or customer, is did the customer feelheard? Did they feel seen? You know, dealing in a legal context, there's some situations where, frankly, at the end of the day,nobody gets the a hundred percent result that they want for lots of reasons.And but if that client felt heard or understood, that they saw sense ofempathy in you from what they were dealing with and a genuine interest and gettingthem to their goals or helping them, that's the hallmark of a good customerexperience in my in my opinion, that is beautiful it. You're using languagethat I like to use a lot. Of course. I talk a lotabout video and its ability to help people be seen and heard and understood.All words you just use there to create that feeling, and not just sothat you, as the center of a video, can be seen in herdand understood, but also that you can let the other person know that theyhave to by looking them in the eye.

So awesome language there, and Iagree with you completely. That is a critical component of a very broadtopic. Let's get into your specialty. Why did you start to work law? Like? What was the gap in the experience for specifically for creative professionals, as they sought legal counsel, legal help like? What were you tryingto solve when you started your own firm with this specialty right? Well,we were. You know, I was previously in a more general business focusedlaw practice and started started working with creative services agencies and focus businesses and reallylove dealing with the issues they were dealing with. And really there was itwas what I call Blue Ocean for me as a lawyer, which is tremendous. But there was nobody helping them. They really were at the intersection ofentrepreneurial or small business issues and issues relative to a specific industry, which isthe advertising industry, and there was really very few resources for them to goget their legal issues addressed and for someone to give them some proactive counsel abouthow to build their businesses successfully. So it was a wonder opportunity for meto focus on industry I love and intersect it with an area. Are Afew areas of law that I was proficient in and that I enjoyed practicing.So for me, everything kind of met at that intersection and we've been focusedthere ever since. Awesome and I expected that that focus in that very particularspecialty is a value to the client as well. Yeah, I hope so. I certainly. I mean we all hope that, at the end ofthe day, right. I think it is because, first of all,there's just there's something about understanding the struggles on an entrepreneurial company or are moretraditional small business and at the end of the day, a lot of theseagencies are. We work only with independent agencies, so none of them thatare in holding company networks. But they are entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs just like anyother entrepreneur, but they, you know, they have these specific regulatory or legalor whatever issues that they have. They're creating a lot of an intellectualcamp and also Ip is a huge part of what they do and they reallyjust needed an advocate, somebody to educate them, advocate for them, helpthem understand how to best protect themselves out of best leverage themselves. And soI yeah, I think they do. We certainly have plants to have alot of really strong relationship with people who, frankly, don't have a good matchelsewhere for their legal concerns. Just for context for folks listening, whois your ideal client as yours? You're speaking this way. You know whois this company? Who Is this entrepreneur? Approximately, yes, that's a bigquestion. Our clients are independent marketing, advertising and communications firms, which meansthat they can help other businesses with...

...digital marketing, which traditional advertising,with their social media campaigns. So it's a business who provides a service tosomebody else which is independently owned and which is midsize or small in nature.So our typical client probably has about fifty or so employees, but we haveclients with as few as five employees and I think our largest client as anagency, with maybe about a hundred and thirty team members. So that's thesize we're working with and they're generally revenues of thirty million and below. Okay, great, it's very helpful. So you mentioned some of the issues thatthey face for especially for the executives and marketers listening to this episode. Whatare some of the hot spots where well meaning marketers can get into hot spots? True? Yeah, well, I can tell you a couple of thingsthat are particularly hot right now and and emerging even you know, the privacy, the data privacy landscape is changing quite a bit right now, and sowe were all focused on Gdpr last year, which is a European regulation that dealswith consumer privacy, but now we're seeing here in the US. Notonly California has enacted its own statute with a consumer privacy act, but wehave other states considering their own versions of Data Privacy Act. Texas is lookingat a big change. I know here are my homestate, Ohio, hasa data act, and there's also this growing pressure in any industry that reliesupon the ability to do direct marketing to create some sort of national standard sothat marketers aren't dealing with fifty s different sets of state laws. And thisis one of the few areas I think we're small marketers and then the bigdata owners, like the googles and the Amazons of the world, are reallyaligned, because no big company wants fifty laws to have to follow, anymore than an entrepreneurial size business does. So data privacy first of all,and then social media and influence our marketing compliance is something that is an ongoingconcern because in impacts every kind of company, whether you do be to be marketingor whether you are a BBC company, probably particularly if you're a beautity BBCcompany where your audience might be more vulnerable. It's are you following therules relative to using influencers, regarding using product testimonials. So those are probably, choose, the two biggest hot buttons. And then we have a lot ofDatto Day in electional property protection questions like how do to protect a copyrightand something that's original? How do you make sure that your brand name areyour brand identity is secure? That sort of stuff. Cool. Let's getinto influencer marketing a little bit, where I have my own opinions on itand I suspect that they're related to the to the legal troubles potentially around it. Talk a little bit about influencer marketing like Dus and don'ts, pros andcons. You know. Where do you...

...see go? Well, where doyou see go poorly? Right, well, where you see go poorly? Theworst example of influencer marketing blowing up are typically the examples we see wheresome celebrity is involved and some big mistake is made, either because a falseclaim got made or the right disclaimers aren't made and and there's some sort offinancial harm are, you know, even worse, there's some sort of physicalharm to somebody. So those are, you know, those are the sexiestcases to read about, think about, but the tractors are really a lotmore predominant when you're working with microw influencers, those who have smaller, you know, tribes, if you will, and it's usually out of a lackof knowledge on the part of the influence or the influencers team or the marketingteam within your company. And it's stuff like did you remember to disclose inthe campaign that the influence are got free product as the influencer got invited toan event and they asked to talk or post about it. Did they disclosethat? So it's really lack of disclosing when it's appropriate to disclose. It'smaking claims and posts about products or things that either are true or they maybe true but they're not verifiable, they're overbroad, which is more sort oflike a traditional advertising principle or translated into social media. And then it's justthe traditional things like using images you're not entitled to use, are reposting contentor the likeness of a person that you don't have the authorization to repost orreuse, which are more traditional, and electional, property or publicity rights issues. So kind of blends all that into one big pile and there's lots ofbad paths you can take and again, usually it's as a result of lackof knowledge, not intent. Yeah, absolutely, that's the interesting thing.Many interesting things there. Let's go back to this idea that you know becauseyou got into microinfluencers and so you know, influencer marketing in in a fundamental waysis not significantly different than, you know, the celebrity endorsements of yearspasted right like I'm seeing O G Simpson running through the airport gets into somelegal and awful turmoil. You know, if he was still relevant at thattime, certainly everyone that endorsed him would have dropped him. But the usutingthing about the microinfluencer now is that everyone has their own channel, right,like you don't have to be a professional athlete or a television star or filmstar or whatever, or a musician to have a platform that has value thatcan be monetized. So talk a little bit more about that, like howcan it be done successfully for someone who has been thinking about it, whois maybe toyed with a little bit, they haven't started. I imagine beeasier to deal with a microinfluencer if you've done more traditional, higher level influencermarketing where there is some guidance, maybe...

...there's legal representation on the other side, where they're probably isn't with a microinfluence or like. What are some routesto success right well, I mean these are all great questions and I thinkthat really the reason we're seeing the rise of microinfluence is because, first ofall, celebrity influence, our campaigns are extremely expensive for grants to run andthe the errors from a legal perspective are even, I think, are somewhatunforgivable, because there's the resources there to actually do the due diligence and todo the review before campaigns go alive. And so you might argue that whenit comes to celebrity influence, it's more expensive, we have a lot morecosts involved and executing it successfully. These are all reasons, business reasons,not necessarily equal reasons, why microinfluencing is, I think, more popular right now. But from a legal point of view, these are the campaigns where, if you do a little of work up front in terms of team education, not only the marketing team at the brand but the team around the influencer, even involving the microinfluencer themselves and helping them understand these are the rules.If you talk about the product you have to say and you got the productfor free, you need to say that. If we have a relationship with eachother where we pay you for being an ambassador for our brand, youneed to disclose that you're an abstor just sort of having taking a step backfor the campaign launches and having a conversation with everybody involved about what the rulesactually are. So there's easy opportunities for some fast education and training up frontas you get involved in executing the campaign. What them becomes most important is somebodyneeds to be monitoring it because of the viral nature of social media.Once something's out there, you have to react quickly to sort of dial itback, or it's president's president, spreads super quickly and then you have areputation management problem for the brand, possibly for the influencer, etc. SoI think that it's easier to do correctly. I suppose you might face the argumentthat it's harder to do correctly because there are a fewer resources, butbut really just talking about training and conversation up front to land the foundation.So and my view, if you're going to engage as a brand and influencermarketing, if you sell the type of product or service that makes it agood fit for that. We shouldn't be dipping your toes in that water andto really understand the legal landscape. And then from a business point of view, I you know, I'm not a professional marketer, so everybody has todo their own analysis. But the microinfluence is working, I think, somuch more effectively because the audiences for the messages are so much more engaged withthe influencer. And those circumstances, if you have a celebrity twitter account orinstagram account that's celebrity is probably not going...

...to engage that much with the averageperson who's engaging trying to engage with them. But these microinfluencers, you know,and the beauty space, in the health and wellness space, other spaces, fashioned they actually do react with a react to or interact with the tribesthat follow them, and so you can really create relationships for brands that way. Yeah, you want to find that sweet spot where they have a largeenough audience that it's worthwhile, but they're also small enough that they're still hungryand they want to like over deliver, over deliver for you. Thank that. I want to go to something. This is for any CS person orsalesperson or marketer or executive who is doing his or her own content, youknow, like in Linkedin or maybe in a blog or in any of theseother channels. Get and I'm going to go back to something you mentioned earlierbecause it's so common, and this is the idea that you're using images thatyou don't have the right to use or music that you don't have the rightto use, in the case the people are doing video. I hear thatall the time and it is even though I came up in broadcast television,so I was very familiar with with music rights in that context. They're alittle bit different online. Give some pointers to anyone who is publishing content ona platform on behalf of themselves, as a personal brand and as a companyrepresentative, around rights to images and music, like what or anything else that comesto mind around that add beat fascism. Yeah, well, I'm happy thatyou ask it, because it's the first two by mouth for everybody whomight be watching this is that ultimately, if you're posting content, I don'tcare which platform and I don't care what type of content, whether it's copy, imagery video, you're doing it for commercial reason. Right ultimately, atthe end of the day, yes, you're trying to relationship build, yes, you're trying to do all these other things, but at the end ofthe day, is for a commercial purpose. When it's for a commercial purpose,there is no such thing as fair use. And what I mean,the reason why that's important is because we've got this whole generation now, digitalnatives, who feel are suddenly they feels that they haven't been taught differently,that just because something is out there online, it's not free for the taking,particularly when your end use is commercial. So assume your use is commercial andtherefore there's no such thing as for use. And once you've your clearon those points, then you understand that if you're going to repost the contentof another person, you need their permission. You just do. I know it'sslows things down, I know it's a buzz kill, but you justdo. You need their permission to repost. Attribution is nice, but it's nottechnically going to get you out from under any copyright problems and if theperson who's content you've posted objects to you doing so, then you have apotential infringement situation. So I always give...

...attribution, always give credit first ofall. But you need permission at the end of the day, and fairuse is not a construct that will help you if your use is commercial,which is all it almost always is. So that's my first I think goto and be original, I mean be original on the way you're using athird person's content. What gets people in trouble is is not adding any oftheir own original person in addition to not asking for permission, are not givingcredit, is not any ending, anything additional or insightful or original to whateveris that they're sharing. Sharing just for the sake of sharing, I think, is not it's not worth the trouble from given the risk that you're takingon from an intellectual property perspective versus the mileogy might be getting from a brandingor a marketing perspective. Cool. Now, specifically, if we're on linkedin andwe see a video, like for an upcoming campaign or a Webinar oran event or whatever that a company has produced and it has popular music init, say like like popular music that you were I would recognize great andthey almost certainly didn't pay for the rights, because I would assume that's a littlebit like a celebrity endorsement where it would be very, very expensive.So why would you buy the rights to a popular song for a oneoff campaign? Like, yeah, well, illegal, probably? Yeah, yeah, probably, definitely, definitely. Yeah, if you don't have a license touse a popular recee of music in your campaign, then you can't use themusic in your campaign. I mean there are plenty of sources of legally obtainablemusic clips. You can subscribe to services that will provide you access to acatalog. You can, if your budget allows for you can get your ownoriginal music prepared. It's not as expensive as you think it is anymore.There's lots of of musicians that they're dying for that opportunity. Yeah, not, legal expensive. If the I mean you're probably depending on your reach orwhat it is that you're selling, you're definitely going to get a season desistrequest and you might get a big fat licensing fee demand as well. It'sjust not worth it. You know, fair use does not mean if youfound it online you get to use it online. Fair use is a conceptthat's a defense to copyright infringement. That applies and very, very limited settings, and most of them aren't relevant to the people who are going to bewatching this honestly right, good. So we should all know what the rightthing is and we should all do the right thing. Let's go a littlebit now to to experience and relationships a little bit. I want to Iwant to get your perspective on a few different types of relationships. Let's startwith like the client to the agency,...

...right, let's talk a little bitabout that relationship, that experience. How if someone is contracting some aspect oftheir workout to an agency, you know what should they look for? Whatyou know? Just talk about I know you manage that a lot or youryou have a good purview into it. Yeah, here's here's some thoughts orsome recommendations there. Well, Gosh, I mean I think that and Ithink a lot of agencies that were we would agree with this. There areso many opportunities to work with a marketing partner who really understands your goals andyour audience. It's harder, though, to find the right intersection of somebodywho understand your bowls and your into your industry as well. So you know, if you can find a partner who has the same philosophy that you doabout you know how they treat a client or customer IEU and they also understandyour industry. That's gold and I think it's a getting increasingly easier to dothat because more agencies are taking that bold stuff of developing niches and and stickingto the niches rather than trying to be all things to all people. Andwhether that niche is a vertical and industry vertical or whether it's a horizontal expertiselike email video marketing, it's working with a partner who is really proficient andsome specific technology or tactic or someone who really understands the industry that your clientis and so that's those are my best tips from matching up with somebody whoreally is a good partner for you and then, ultimately, it's got tobe someone who understands your business goals and then is interested in helping you achievethem. We were talking earlier about customer experiences. Do they see you?Do they hear you? It's great that they have got wonderful creative concepts,but are they the ones that are going to return our life for you andhelp you achieve the business goals that you set up to achieve? Awesome.I love this idea of differentiating by specializing and in that way delivering better onyour customers. It also reminds me of your law firm. Talk a successwhat you're doing too. Yeah, so talk about similar question, but buta different stakeholder relative to the agency. Talk about like the freelancer or someonethat might be delivering work on behalf of an agency. Talk about like anindependent contractor or a freelancer who is operating in service agency. It's a reallygood question. I mean, we are in such a struggle for good talentin the marketing world right now. Every single agency client my firm has thisissue of attracting retaining and I were just about every single as a matter offact, cannot one comes to mind that doesn't use independent contractors or freelancers toaugment their teams at some point or another,...

...and so it's just a factive lifein the marketing world and I would be hard pressed to find a lotof marketing departments internally in a brand who haven't done this occasionally as well.I just heard an interview with a really fascinating business out of Atlanta called weare rosy, and it is an agency just built around putting teams of freelancerstogether to serve a marketer or brand and it's just it's the way that ifyou future. And so there are some specific legal issues that you need toplan for when you're working for somebody who's not actually going to be on youron your payroll. You need solid agreements in writing in place to protect theintellectual property in the work that they create for you and make sure you ownit at the end of the day. You need to do all the thingsin that agreement that the IRS expects you to do to maintain that independence betweenyou and them. And then you need to had think, have clear parametersaround what the goal is for the work that they're going to be providing foryou and how they're going to help you deliver value to your client, youknow. And then along with it is this no question of virtual work,and they're not always the same thing. There are some, there are alot of virtual workers who are employs and there are independent contractors who could bevirtual but might choose to come in and work occasionally on site, and sothey're not always the same thing, they're frequently the same thing, and soyou need to kind of pay attention to both aspects of the relationship. Loveit it reminds me of what you offered before with regard to microinfluencers, becausein a way, they're being contracted for particular piece of work. You knowthat just laying out the rules and and being explicit and clear from the getgo so that people are on the same page. Of course a step fartherwhen they are directly financially engaged. Let's for you. It's just kind ofa soft one. You know, as you think about what experience you wantto create for your clients, you know, what are some things that you've maybelearned or so or rule you've always had or like? You know,what are you trying to do for your clients in the way that you makethem feel? How do you make sure that they're seen and heard and understood? Kind of talk a little bit about customer experience from your point of viewand delivering that for your own clients. Yeah, I I think that itstarts based upon the way your team is cultured to interact with them, becauseI'm not always their first point of contact one. I mean once we establisha relationship, we have a lot of clients with ongoing needs, and Imean at so you've got to trust that you've got somebody at the gate whois going to make them feel seen and heard as well. I think thatavailability and responsiveness are important and I think one of the bigger mistakes I madeearlier on in my business career was confusing responsiveness with reactiveness, and I thinka lot of us in service focused firms...

...do this at some point or another. But we are so hyper focused on getting back to the customer of theclient and reasonable short amount of time that we're constantly spending our day react andreact mode and putting fire out mode, and that is not ultimately during themany better than a more considered or paused approach, and so I think weultimately the end that they do better job for our clients when we are reactive, but not our excuse me, responsive but not reactive, not knee jerkingall the time. So I think those are my top two tips. Andand you know what, the clients don't they don't expect you to pick upthe phone every single time they they want their issues heard, they want empathyand understanding, they want their problems solved and if it takes you twenty fourhours to do that instead of two hours to do that, obviously if it'san emergency that can't wait. You do what you can, but Gosh,early on in my days it was everything had to be taken care of rightyesterday. It's just not true. And at all another is it not true, but it's not necessarily going to guarantee that the work product is the quality, the top quality, that you could put out either. So that is, my such a good learning and such a good line to draw between reactionand responsiveness. And you do want to react in that hey, got yourmessage. Know what the issue is. I empathize with you. I'm workingon right. The people just have that that quick touch, that that immediateavailability to say got it, sorry've got it or whatever. Right, youdon't always have to apologize and just let them know that you're working on itand then you respond properly in times as the situation demands right. And youknow I mean, I think if you are if you know, if youwork independently, if you train yourself to have this mental checklist of questions toask, or if you have a team of you know how urgent is this? By? When do you expect or need a response? You know,if you remember to put those processes in place. It helps you avoid thatnatural impulse. You know, we all like to be helpful and we allneed to be helpful in as quick a period of time as we can.But quick isn't always best. You know, immediate isn't always best. so thatwas a hard learning for me, but I do better now than Iused to do. I'll say that it's good. We're all works in progress. I love it, Lily. This has been awesome. I know folkshave gotten some really good tips, especially just around the basics of you know, just because you can right click and save as doesn't mean you have therights to use it. As we wrap up, your relationships are our numberone core value here on the podcasting here at bombomb so I always like togive you the opportunity, before we close,...

...to think or mention someone who's hada positive impact on your life or career and to give a shout outto a company that has delivered a really good experiences to you. Okay,this is awesome. One person who's had a tremendously pose is an impact onmy career as a gentleman named drew McCallen, who owns agency Management Institute and AgencyManagement Institute is a company that provides education, peer to peer Learning Workshopsand other out coaching other opportunities to independent Ad Agency owners, and drew hispersonally been a great manner to me, not only because he has, heworks with hundreds and hundreds of agencies, but more because of his his spiritof helpfulness and its spirit of service. He's so generous with ideas and feedback, and so shout out to him for just being really impactful in my lifeand lots of ways, but especially, you know, in the business.And then an example of this is going to probably sound crazy, but it'sfresh in my mind because of something that happened on Friday. I'm going tocall out my dentist office. Actually cool. They are not inexpensive. I'm goingto say that first. But my dentist office is has a policy,I think, of probably having a limited patient base, because every single patientthere is made to feel special and valued and comfortable and if they're almost likethe concierge for people who need donal work done. And I fortunately don't haveany dental issues. I just go in my cleaning or whatever toys a year, but they're just from from the dunnist himself to the Higgenis to the frontoffice that they are paramount and treating the customer with respect and making them feelvalue. So Dr Steven Marsh GDS here in Cleveland Ohio. He's an awesomeguy and his firm is awesome as well. So that's that's something probably most shomwatchers are going to expect. Nobody likes going to the Dunnist, butif you have to, his practice is a great place to go, andthat you know. I have big corporate examples, but I like the ideaof cliing out maybe a local one like that Nice. I love that.That is not crazy at all and in the language you used as super interestingto me because I immediately could imagine a variety of other businesses that you know, are maybe generally pedestrian. They're not necessarily looking to innovate or be cuttingedge or anything with the way that they're delivering. But just changing the languagealone of we are concierge for people who happen to need dental services or happento need blank immediately conjures this image of I am here to be your guide, to answer questions and all these other things, to facilitate some things sothat it is frictionless for you. Such a language that you used. Iwonder how many businesses could just use that change of mindset in recruiting, hiring, onboarding, training and developing of staff,...

...such that we approach it that wayright. And I filter through not just the way you're treated by theteam there, which is the, you know, the most important thing,but just little things, little touches, like the technology they use to remindyou about your appointments. I mean you're you know they're using that only emails, the texts, you know, if you opt in. And we hada scheduling snaffle last week. I had a rescheduled appointment and I actually Icaught it lunchtime on Thursday to schedule my appointment again, and my dentist himselfactually answered the phone, which he never does, and he said everybody's alunch, so I like to help them out. I'm answering the phone.So he schedules me for he says. Oh, looks like we have anopening to our morning and a fifteen, he says, but they don't likeit when I schedule, he says. So, if this is wrong,someone'll call you back. Nobody call me back. So I showed up ata fifteen the next day. Sure enough, he screwed up. There was nospot at a fifteen. They all felt terrible. They sent me outof there with a ten starbucks gift card and it was all good and theycouldn't have been more hoologetic. So and I was fine with it because Iknow that they cared about the fact that I was in convenience. I youknow, you don't get that by calling your cell phone carrier or whatever.Right. So good, great story. You are an absolute wealth of knowledge. This has been a pleasure. I really appreciate the way you invest inyour community and invest in entrepreneurs and small businesses. I should really appreciate that. How can someone follow up with you or with your law firm? Well, for some. Of all, thanks you been so much for having me. It's been a delight to have a conversation with you. Reach out witha legal and CREATIVECOM. You can also find me on twitter at Sharon Torktooe are Ek, on linkedin shared Torik, and my email is Sharon at legaland CREATIVECOM. Happy to talk with everyone. Awesome. Thank you againso much for your time and insights. I hope you have a great restof your day. So even thanks for the opportunity. You have a greatone. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just someof the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It'seasy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanizeYour Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learnmore in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks forlistening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers.Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcastplayer, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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