The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

33. What Your Marketing Team's Doing That's Probably Illegal w/ Sharon Toerek

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

After “What’s the meaning of life?”, here’s the next most important question:

Do I need permission to repost this?

Can’t answer the first one for you, but the second one is a gigantic yes.

I sat down with Sharon Toerek, Intellectual Property and Marketing Law Attorney who helps creative professionals protect, enforce and monetize their creative assets. Her work with small advertising and marketing entrepreneurs is driven by her understanding of customer experience. 

“Customer experience means to me that at the end of the day, at the end of the transaction, did the customer feel heard? Did they feel seen?” Sharon said.



And you're going to repost the contentof another person. We need their permission. You just do the single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host eat, Hem, Baute, welcome back to the customer experiencepodcast. Today's guest, who am very excited is with us, is an intellectualproperty and marketing law attorney who helps creative professionals, protect,enforce and monetize their creative assets. She is very active as a boardmember and board director and support of small businesses, anentrepreneurship, so we may get into that. She's workd with jumpstart theNational Small Business Association, Greater Cleveland Partnership, theCouncil of small enterprises and more she's a two time speaker at inbound,which is Habe spotsaniuel conference she's also spoken. A content marketingworld sowll get a little bit of demarketing talk. She also host theInnovative Agency podcast Sharon Torick. Welcome to the customer experiencepodcas, so much e and I'm so excited to be here with you today, yeah Wewe'veactually met in person, which is something I can't say about all of ourguests and I'm really excited to have you on the show we're going to we'regoing to get into a variety of things. I would like to maybe talk a little bitabout small business entrepreneurship. Definitely Marketing, definitely law.That's a really unique expertise that you bring to the show that I think isgoing to be really relevant to a lot of seats in the house, ind, a variety oforganizations, but we'll start with your thoughts or your definition orcharacteristics. When I say customer experience what comes to mind for you yeah, it's at's a definitely a broad,potentially a broad topic. I think customer experience means to me that,at the end of the day, at the end of the transaction, if you're atransactional business or at the end of the project, if you're somebody whoworks out go on an own going basis with your plient or customer is, did thecustomer feel heard. Did they feel same? You know dealing in a legal context,thereare some situations where, frankly, at the end of the day, nobody gets thea hundred percent result that they want for lots of reasons, and but if thatclient felt heard or understood that they saw a sense of empathy in you fromwhat they were dealing with and a genuine interest and getting them totheir goals or helping them. That's the holemark of a good customer experiencein my in my opinion, that is beautiful. It you're using language that I like touse a lot. Of course, I talke a lot about video and it's ability to helppeople be seen and heard and understood all words. You just use there to createthat feeling and not just so that you, as the center of a video, can be seenand heard and Undersood, but also that you can let the other person know thatthey have two by looking them in the...

...eye, so awesome language there, and Iagree with you completely. That is a critical component of a very broadtopic. Let's GE into your specialty. Why did you start toric law like whatwas the gap in the experience for specifically for creative professionals,as they sought legal council legal help like what were you trying to solve whenyou started your own firm with this specialty right? Well, we were you know.I was previously in a a more general business focused while practice andsort of started working with creative services, agencies and focus businessesand really love deling with the issues they were dealing with and really therewas. I was what I call Bluw Ocean for me as a lawyer, which is tremendous,but there was nobody helping that they really were at the intersection ofentrepreneureal or small business issues and issues relative to a specific industry,which is the advertising indhustry, and there was really very few resources forthem to go, get their illegal issues addressed andfor someone to give this a proactive counsel about how to build theirbusinesses successfully. So was a wonderful opportunity for me to focuson industry. I love and intersect it with an area or a few areas of law thatI was proficient in and that I enjoyed practicing. So for me, everything kindof met at that intersection and we've been focused there ever since awesome,and I expected that that focus in that very particular specialty is a value tothe client as well yeah. I hope so. I certainly mean we all hope that at theend of the day right, I think it is because, first of all, there is justthere's something about understanding the struggles of than entrepreneurialcompany or ar more traditional small vusiness and, at the end of the day, alot of these agencies are, we work only with independent agency,so none of them that are in holing company networks, but they areentreprenurse entrepretor, just like any other entrepreneur, but they youknow they have these specific regulatory or illegal or whateverissues that they have they're creating a lot of intellectual cap, but also, Ipaise a huge part of what they do and they really just needed an advocatesomebody to educate them advocate for them help them understand how to bestprotect themselves on the best luverage themselves and so yeah. I think they do.We certainly have wants to have a lot of really strongrelationship in people who, frankly, don't have a good match elsewhere fortheir legal concerns. Just for context for folks listening, who is your idealclient as youreas you're speaking this way, you know who is this company? Whois the entrepreneur? Approximately? Yes, R? That's a goid question: our clientsare independent marketing, advertising and communications firms, which meansthat they can help other businesses...

...with digital marketing, whichtraditional advertising with their social media campaigns. So it's abusiness who provides thas service to somebody else which is independentlyowned and which is midsiz or smell in nature, so ou, our typical client,probably has about Oh fifty or so employees, but we have plients with asfew as fine employees and I think our largest client as an agency with maybeabout a hundred and thirty team members. So that's the size, we'r working withand they're generally revenues of thirty million and below. Okay. Great,it's very helpful. So you mentioned some of the issues that they face for,especially for the executives and marketers. Listening to this episode,what are some of the hot spots where well meaning marketers can get into hot spots Tana? Well, I can tell you acouple of things that are particularly hot right now and and Amerging. Evenyou know the privacy, the data privacy landscape is changing quite a bit rightnow, and so we were all focused on Gdpr last year, which is a Europeanregulation that deals with consumer privacy. But now we're seeing here inthe US now, like California, has an acted it own statute with a ConsumolPrivacy Act, but wehave other states considering their own versions ofDataprivacy Act. Texas is looking at a big change. I know here in my homestate.Ohio has a data aut and there's also this growing pressure in any industrythat relies upon the ability to do direct marketing to create some sort ofnational standard, so that marketers aren't dealing with iftyse differentsets of state laws, and this is one of the few areas I think where smallmarketers and then the big data owners like the gools and the Amazons of theworld, are really aligned, because no big company wants fifty laws to have tofollow anymore than an interpreteral size. Business does so data privacy,first of all, and the social media and influence or marketing compliance issomething that is an ungoing concern, because in impacts every kind ofcompany, whether you do be to be marketing or whether You'R Ben Te Seacompany Ponn, particularly if you're veted, to be the sea company where youraudience might be more vulnerable. Its are you following the rules relative tousing influencers regarding using product testimonials, so those are, Iprobably shoot the two biggest hot buttons, and then we have a lot ofDataday in Olatinal property protection. Questions like how do you protect acopyright in something that's original? How do you make sure that your brandname are your bradn identity as secure that sort of stuff cool, let's get intoinfluence or marketing a little bit where I have my own opinions on it, andI suspect that they're related to the to the legal troubles potentiallyaround it talking a little bit about influence or marketing like Dus anddon'tes, pros and cons. You know: Where...

...do you see go well? Where do you see gopoorly right? Well, when you seego corly, the worst example of INSLUENSARmarketing blowing up are typically e. The examples we see where somecelebrity is involved and something mistake is made either because a falseclaim that made or the right disclaimers aren't, made andand there's some sort of financial harm, or you know, even worse there- somesort of physical harm to somebody. So those are you know, those are thesexiest cases to read about think about, but the the trap doors are really a lotmore predominant when you're working withMicowood fluincers, those who have smaller, you know tribes, if you will-and it's usually out of a lack of knowledge on the part of the influenceor the influencers team or the marketing team within your company andit's stuff like did you remember, to disclose in the campaign that theINFLUENC or got free product if the influencer got invited to an event andthey asked to talk or post about it? Did they disclose that? So it's reallylack of disclosing when it's appropriate to disclose it's makingclaims in posts about products or things thateither are true or they may be true, but they're, not verifiable, they'reoverbroad, which is more sort of like a traditional advertising principle buttranslated into social media, and then it's just the traditional things likeusing images, you're not entitled to use or reposting content or thelikeness of a person that you don't have the authorization to repost orReewse, which are more traditional in lectual property or publicity rightsissues, so kind of blends. All that into one big pile and there's lots ofbad paths. You can take and again usually it's as a result of luck, anKnowledgei, not intent, yeah. Absolutely, and that's the interestingthing. Many interesting things there. Let's go back to this idea that youknow because you got into micro influencers, and so you know, influenceor marketing in a fundamental way is, is not significantly different than youknow. The celebrity endorsements of years past, right, like I'm, seeing OJSimpson running through the airport, gets into some legal and awful turmoil.You know if he was still relevant at that time. Certainly everyone thatendorsed him would have dropped him, but the interesting thing about themicro influence ror now is that everyone has their own channel right,like you, don't have to be a professional athlete or a televisionstar or film star or whatever or musician, to Hava Platform. That hasvalue that can be monetized. So talk a little bit more about that like how canit be done successfully for someone who has been thinking about it? Who ismaybe toyed with a little bit they haven't started? I imagine be easier todeal with a micro INFLUENC or, if you've done more traditional higherlevel influence or marketing, where...

...there is some guidance, maybe there'slegal representation on the other side, where there probably isn't, with amicro influence or like what are some routes to success right. Well, I meankthese are all great questions and I think that really the reason we're seeing the rise ofvicro influence is because, first of all, celebrity influenc or campaignsare extremely expensive for brancs to runand the the errors from a legal perspective are even, I think, aresomewhat unforgivable because there's the resources there to actually do thedo diligence and to do the review before campaigns Gil alive, and so youmight argue that when it comes to celebrity influence, it's moreexpensive. You have a lot more cost involve in executing it successfully.These are all reasons, business reasons, not necessarily evil reasons by microinfluencing is, I think, more popular right now, but from a legal point ofview. thes are the campaigns where, if you do a little of more upfront interms of team education, not only the marketing team at the brand, but theteam around the influencor, even involving the micro influencorthemselves, and helping them understand these thee rules. If you talk about theproduct, you have to say, and you got the product for free, you need to saythat if we have an relationship with each other, where we pay you for beingambassador for a brand, you need to dis close that you're, an investor justsort of having taking a step back for the campaign launches and having aconversation with everybody involved about what the rules actually are. Sothere's easy opportunities for some bast education and Training Upfront, asyou CGEN involved in executing the campaign. What then becomes mostimportant is somebody needs to be monitoring it because of the viralnature of social media. Once something's out there, you have toreoft quickly to sort of dial it back or it's present as presencs breadssuper quickly. And then you have a reputation management problem for thebrand, possibly for the influencor etcetera. So I think that it's easierto do correctly. I suppose you but face the argument that it's harder to docorrectly, because there are fewer resources, but we really just talkingabout training and conversation up front to lay the foundation. So, in myview, if you're going to engage as a brand in influenceer marketing, if yousell the type of product or service that makes it a good fit for that, weshouldn't be dipping your toes in that water and to Ma really understand thelegal landscape and then, from a business point of view. I you know, I'mnot a professional marketer, so everybody has to do their own analysis,but the Microintul is is working, I think so much more effectively, becausethe audiences for the messages are so much more engaged with the influencerand those circumstances. If you have a celebrity twitter account, er instagramaccount that celebrity is probably not...

...going to engage that much with theaverage person who's. You know engaging trying to engage with them, but thesemicroine fuencers, you know in the beauty space in the health, F, Wallacespace other spaces fashion. They actually do react with a react to orinteract with the tribes that follow them, and so you can really createrelationships for grands that way. Yeah you want to find that sweet spot wherethey have a large enough audience that it's worthwhile, but they're also smallenough that they're still hungry and they want to like deliver or overdeliver for you. I hat you want to go to something. This is for any CS person orsalesperson, or marketer or executive, who is doing his or her own content.You know like in linked in or maybe in a blog in any of these other channels.I'm going to go back to something you mentioned o earlier, because it's socommon, and this is the idea that you're using images that you don't havethe right to use or music that you don't have the right to use in the casethat people are doing video. I hear that all the time, and it is eventhough I came up in broadcast television, so I was very familiar withwith music rights. In that context, theyre a little bit different online,give some pointers to anyone who is publishing content on a platform onbehalf of themselves as a personal brand and as a company representative,around rights to images and music. Like what or anything else that comes tomind around that Arabassis Yeah? Well, I'm happy that you ask it because it's the first thip I know for everybody whomight be watching this. Is that, ultimately, if you're posting contents,I don't care which platform and I don't care, what type of content, whetherit's copy, imagery video you're, doing it for commercial reason, rightalsomaly. At the end of the day, yes, you're trying to relationship buildyesto're trying to do all these other things, but at the end of the day, itsfor a commercial purpose when it's for a commercial purpose, there is no suchthing as faryouse and what I'm e, in the reason why that's important isbecause we've got this whole generation now digital natives, who feel some they feel as that they haven'tbeen taught differently that just because something is out thereonline is not free for the taking, particularly when your nuse iscommercial, so a sumor use is commercial and thereforethere's no such thing as for use and once you've your pleayr on those points.then you understand that if you're going to repost the content of anotherperson, you need their permission. You just do. I know it slows things down. Iknow it's a Bozz kill, but you just do you need their permission to repostattribution is nice, but it's not technically going to get you out fromunder any copyright problems and if the person DOS content, you've postedobjects to doing so, then you hove a...

...potential infrengement situation soalways give attribution always give credit first of all, but you needpermission at the end of the day and Faryuse is not a construct that willhelp you. If your use is commercial which is almo it almost always is sothat's my first I think, go to and be original. I mean be original on theway you're using a third person's content. What gives people in troubleis is not adding any of their own original pers. In addition to not askit for parision or not giving credit is not any adding anything additional orin sightful or original to whatever it is that they'resharing, sharing jus for the sakeas sharing, I think, is not it's not worththe trouble from given the risk that you're taking on from an anellectialproperty perspective versus the Miolog, you might be getting from a branding ormarketing perspective cool. Now, specifically, if we're unlinked in, andwe see a video like for an upcoming campaign or a Webinar or an event orwhatever that a company has produced, and it has popular music in it. Theylike, like popular music, that Youor, I wouldrecognize, and they almost certainly didn't pay for the rights, because Iwould assume that's a little bit like a celebrity endorsement where it would bevery, very expensive. So why would you buy the rights to a popular song for aone off campaign like Yoele, illegal, probably yeah, yeah, probably Dota,like definitely yeah? If you don't ow Hav license to use a popular riece ofmusic and your campaign, then you can't use the music and your campaign. I meanthere are plenty of sources of legally obtainablemusic clips. You can subscribe the services that will provide you accessto a catalog. You can, if your budget allows, for you can get your ownoriginal music prepared it's as expensive as yout think it is anymore.There's blots tons of musicians that they're dying for that opportunity.Yeah, not legal expensive. If the I mean you're, probably depending on yourreach or what it is, that you're selling you're definitely going to geta season, disis request and you might get a big fat licensing fee demand aswell. It's just not worth it. You know, fair use does not mean if you found itonline, you get to use it. Otline fery use is a concept. It's a defense tocopyright enfrenghment. That applies a very, very limited settings, and mostof them aren't wrong of it to the people who are going to be watchingthis honestly right good. So we should all know what the right thing is, andwe should all do the right thing. Let's go a little bit now to to experience inrelationships a little bit I want to. I want to get your perspective on a fewdifferent types of relationships. Let's start with, like the client to theagency right. Let's talk a little bit...

...about that relationship that experiencehow, if someone is contracting some aspect of their workout to an agency,you know what should they look for what you know just talk about. I know youmanage that a lot or you have good perview into it. Yeah your here somethoughts or some recommendations there well Gosh. I mean, I think that, and Ithink alot agensus I work. We would agree with this. There are so many opportunities to workwith a marketing partner who reallyunderstands your goals and your audience it's harder, though, to findthe right intersection of somebody who understand your bulls and your in yourindustry as well. So you know if you can find a partner who has he samephilosophy that you do about? You know how they treat a client or a customerIEU, and they also understand your industry, that's gold and I think it'sgetting increasingly easier to do that, because more agencies are taking thatbold stuff of developing nitches and and sticking to the niches, rather than trying to be all things to all peopleand whater. Tha Ige is a vertical, an industry vertical when it's ahorizontal expertise like email, video marketing, it's working with a partnerwho is really proficient in some specific technology or tacting, orsomeone who really understands the industry that your client is, and sothat's those are my best tips from matching up with somebody who really isa good murmur for you and then ultimately, it's going to be someonewho understands your business goals and it is interested in helping you achievethem. We were talking earlier about customer experiences. Do they see you?Do they hear you it's great, that theyhave got wonderful creativeconcepts, but are they the ones that are going to return our life for youand help you achieve the business goals that you set ut to achieve awesome? Ilove this idea of differentiating by specializing and in that way,delivering better on your customers. It also reminds me of your law, firmTalkingotexic, that's what you're doing to PA yeah so talk about similarquestion, but but a different stakeholder relative to the agency talkabout like the freelance or someone that might be delivering work on behalfof an agency talk about like an independent contractor or a freelancerwho is operating in service agency hit's, a really good question. I meanwe are in such a struggle for good talent in the marketing world right now,every single agency plient. My firm has this issue of attractingretaining and Iwer just about avey single. As a matter of fact, it not onecomes to mind that doesn't use independent contractors or freelacersto augment their teens at some point or...

...another, and so it's just a fact oflife in the marketing world, and I would be hard pressed to find a lot ofmarketing departments, internallyto brand, who haven't done thisoccasionally as well. I just had an interview with a really fascinatingbusiness out of Atlanta called LEA ROSI and it asn't agency just built aroundputting teams of freelancwers together to serve a marketer or a brand, andit's just it's the way of the future, and so there are some specific legal issuesthat you need to plan for when you're working for somebody who's not actuallygoing to be on your on your payroll, you need sell agrievance in writing in place toprotect the intellational property in the wark that they create, for you makesure you own it. At the end of the day, you need to do all the things in thatagreement, that the IRS expects you to do to maintain that independencebetween you and them, and then you eden had think, have clear parameters aroundwhat the goal is for the work that they're going to be providing for youand how they're going to help you deliver rality to your client, you know,and then, along with that is no question of virtual work and they're,not always the same thing. There are some therare, a lot of virtual workerswho are eploys and there are independent contractors who could bevirtual but might choose to come in and work occasionally on Siteand, sothey're, not always the same thing, they're frequently the same thing, andso you need to kind of pay attention to both aspects of the relationship loveit. It reminds me of what you offered before with regard to microinfluencers,because in a way they're being contracted for a particular piece ofwork, you know that just laying out the rules and and being expliciting clearfrom the Getgo, so that people are on the same page, of course, a stepfarther when they are directly financially engaged. Let's, for you,thit's just kind of a soft one, you know, is you think about whatexperience you want to create for your clients. You know what are some thingsthat you've, maybe learned or or rule you've always had or like you know,what are you trying to do for your clients in the way that you make themfeel? How do you make sure that they're seen and heard and understood kind oftalk? A little bit about customer experience from your point of view anddelivering that for your own clients, yeah. I think that it starts based uponthe way our team is cultured to interact with them, because I'm not always their firstpoint of contact an I mean once we establish the relationship, we have alot of points with oungoing needs, and I mean so. You'V got Ta Trust thatyou've got somebody at the gate who is going to make them feel seen and heardas well. I think that availability and responsiveness are important and Ithink one of the bigger mistakes I made earlier on in my business career was confusing responsiveness withreactiveness and I think a lot of us in...

...service focused firms do this at somepoint or another, but we are so hyperfocused on getting back to thecustomer of the client in Reasonabley short amount of time thatwere constantly spending our day, react in react mode and putting fire out ot,and that is not ultimately sorving them any better than a more considered orpause approach. And so I I think we also Mlik the othat. They dobetter job for our clients when we are reactive, but not our excuse, beresponsitive, but not reactive, not need jerking all the time. So I thinkthose are my top two thips and- and you know what the clients- don't they don'texpect you to pick up the pone every single time y? They want their issuesheard if they want Athean understanding, they want their problem solved and ifit takes you twenty four hours to do that, instead of two hours to do that.Obviously, if it's an emergency that can't wait, you do what you can but gosh early on. In my days it waseverything handed me taking care of right like yesterday. It's just nottrue, and it all and hat Hesi, not true, but it's not necessarily GOINGTAguarantee that the work product is the quality, the top quality that youcould put out either, so that, as my such a good learning and such a goodline to draw between reaction and responsiveness- and you do want toreact in that- hey got your message- know what the issue is. I empathizewith you I'm working on t right thing: People just now that that quick touchat that immediate availability to say got it sorry, got it or whatever rightyou don't always have to apologize and just let them know that you'reworking on it and then you respond properly in time as the situationdemands right and you know I mean I think if you are, if you know, if you work independently,if you train yourself to have this mental checklist of questions to askfor if you have a team of you know how origin is this, my one? Do you expector need o response? You know if you remember to put those processes inplace. It helps you avoid that natural impulse. You know we don't like to behelpful and we all need to be helpful and as put the period of time as we can,but quick isn't always best. You know immediate, isn't always best. so that was a hard learning for me, but Ido better now than I used to do I'll say that it's good were all works inprogress. I love it absolutely. This has been awesome. I know folks havegotten some really good tips, especially just around the basics ofyou know, just because you can write, click and save as doesn't mean you havethe rights to use it as we wrap up your relationships Ar ournumber one core value here on the podcast and here at Bombam a so. Ialways like to give you the opportunity,...

...before we close to thank or mentionsomeone who's, had a positive impact on your life or career and to give a shoutout to a company that has delivered really good experiences to you. Okay,this is awesome. One person who's had a tremendously positive impact on mycareer as a gentleman named drew mccollin who all his agency management,Institute and Agency Management Institute is a company that provideseducation, pure topeer learning workshops. Another O coaching otheropportunities to independent, an agency owners and drew, as personally been agreat menter to me, not only because he has he works with hundreds AFD hundrersof agencies, but more because of his his spirit of helpfulness and hisspirit of service he's so generous with ideas and feedback and so shot up tohim for just being really impectful in my life in lots of ways, but especiallyyou know in the business and then an example of this is going to probably feund crazy,but it's frersh it my mind because of something that happened on Friday, I'mgoing to call out my Dennis Office, actually cool. They are not inexpensive.I'm going to say that first, but my Denis Office is has a palicy. I think Iprobably have a o limited patient base, because every single patient there ismade Yo feel special and valued and comfortable and they're almost like theconciers. For people who need dennal work done and, unfortunately, don'thave Anin Dent OL o shoes. I just go in my cleanings or whatever twice a yearbut they're just from from the delist himself to the Hygenis to the front offic. Theyare paramount in treating the customer withrespect and making them feel value. So Dr Stevhen Marsh GDS here in Cleveland,Ohio, he's an awesome guy and his firm as awesome as well. So that's that'ssomething. Probably most sho watchers are going to expect nobody likes goingto the Denist, but if you have to Bhis practice is a great place to go andthat you know I have been corporate xamples. But I like the idea of caingout, maybe a local one like that ice. I love that that is not crazy at all andin the language you used is super interesting to me, because Iimmediately could imagine a variety of other businesses that you know aremaybe generally pedestriand they're, not necessarily looking to innovator,be cutting edge or anything with the way that they're delivering, but justchanging the language alone of we are concierge for people who happen to needdental services or happen to need blank immadiately conjures this image of. Iam here to be your guide to answer questions and all these other things tofacilitate somethings sat. It is frictionless for you sein language thatyou used. I wonder how many businesses could just use that change of mindsetin recruiting hiring on boarding,...

...training and developing of staffs suchthat we approach it that way right and I feelters Toug, not just the wayyou're treated by the team there, which is the you know, the the most importantthing, but just little things will touch es like the technology. They useto remind you about your appointments. I mean you're, you know they're usingnotoy emails, the text, you know if you opten and we had a schedul Ike snafffoo. Lastweek I had a rescheduleed appointment and I actually I cauglet it lunchtime on Thursday toSchedul my appointment again and my dennist himself actually ask er thephone which he never does and hes a everybody's lunch. So I like to helpthim out amanstering the foll, so he scalers me for he says: Oh loot's, likewe have an opening to our morning an atd fifteen. He says, but they don'tlike it when I schedule he says so. If this is rob and someone will call youback, nobody call me back so I showed up an a fom to the next day. Sureenough. He screwed up. There was no spin, a EIGT and fifteen. They all feltterrible. They sent me out of there with a tendolar Starbuk kift car and itwas all good and they couldn't have been more apologetic. So and I was finewith it, because I know that they cared about the fact that I was inconvenience.I you know you don't get that by calling your cell phone carrier orwhatever right so good great story. You are in absolute wealth of knowledge.This has been a pleasure. I really appreciate the way you invest in yourcommunity and invest in entrepreneurs and small businesses. I just reallyappreciate that. How can someone follow up with you or with your law firm? Well?First of all, thanks Youy Tein, so much for Nowiway, it's been a delight tohave a conversation with you reach out with at legal and CREATIVECOM. You canalso find me on twitter, at Sharon. Torick Toer Ek, I'm Lindin, ser Torikand my email is Sharon at legal and Creativecom happy to talk with everyoneawesome. Thank you again so much for your time and insights. I hope you havea great rest of your day Ne to eave. Then thanks for the opportunity, youhave a great one, clear, communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance,so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videosaccelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in order today atBombam Com book? That's Bo Mb Tomvcom book thanks for listening to thecustomer experience. podcast remember the single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,continue learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now inyour favorite podcast player, or visit Bombomcom podcast.

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