The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

34. 4 Things EVERY Customer Wish You Understood About Them w/ Michael Redbord

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Customer’s so wish every business understood these 4 things that Mike Redbord shared with us on our our Customer Experience Podcast.

Mike’s the GM of Service Hub at HubSpot, and he came on our show to share a few secrets from inside the customer’s mind:

  • What every customer wished businesses understood
  • Why CX is a feeling, not an operation, a department, or a function
  • Third-party validation
  • Customer reference programs

A few resources we shared on this episode:

Check out our podcast on Apple Podcasts/iTunes, or on Google Podcasts/Google Play, or Spotify and even on Stitcher.

Yeah and I think ll often you know wechoose to disagree with thatr reality if we have an upset customer orsomething like that, we sa Oh, it didn't really happen. That's justthat's not productive kind of stanstotake, because their reality is areality. Their perception is their perception. That is their experience. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast, here'syour host, eath and Baute all right. If you want to learn how andwhy to turn your best customers into your best, marketers you're in theright place, you're going to love this episode of the Customer ExperiencePodcast, because today's guest has spent nearly a decade at hub spot. Mostof that time, he served as a vice president working in services andsupport and scaling the customer team to more than five hundred employeeshe's. Currently, a hundred percent focused on customer experience as thegeneral manager of the service hub hub spots, new line of Business MikeRedboard, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you so muchYousoun. Thank you! So much whisteners, I'm thrilled to be her awesome, I'm soexcited for some of the stuff we're going to go through, especially justbased on your experience. I can't imagine the change that you've seenover a decade at a company liht hub spot, but we'll get there later, we'llstart where we always start here, which is your thoughts about customerexperience. When I say customer experience what ies it conjure, whatare its characteristics and so to me the customer experience is the realityof what any one given customer experiencs. So I think a lot of peoplein the industry in which I are right, a lot of people in the industry trying tofind customer experience kind of operation earlier, like I don't liteboard, but to me it's the reality. It's the Oll little things wet Wa, some ofthe bits of emotion and touches of a customer house with you and thecustomer experience is really one threat for one customer of what theyfeel wbut they experienced and what their impression is. Therefore, of yourbrand. I love it. The you know. I've askedthis question over Thirty Times now to smart folks such as yourself and thelayer you had to hereis this reality piece that you started on is like thisis real to that person, and you know we can sit here internally inside theorganization and debate why that happened or how that happened. But thefact of the matter is we left them with the thoughts and the feelings thatcreated a reality for that person they're going to hold on to until wecreate the opportunity to change that reality or to amplify it in the casethat it's a good one yeah and I think l often you know we choose to disagreewith thatr reality. If we have an upset customer or something like that, we say.Oh it didn't really happen. That's just that's not productive kind ofStanstotat, because their reality is an reality. Their perception is theirperception. That is their experience, and so I think, thinking about it asreality actually cultivates a bit Af culture of like empathy, which is asuper important ash menonety. The most important atibute delivery, reallygreat custer sperience completely agree. When I talk about what I'm learning byhaving these conversations and sharing it internally, it really is aboutraising up customer empathy in more places. You know you find it in spotsin their places where it's really healthy, but you know it's not it's notoften a pervasive or prevailing attitude or pasture in every seat inthe house, but you know that's what it takes to deliver an amazing customerexperience. So for folks, who don't know talk a little bit about theservice hub kind of tha the tag line at the top of the main page. There issoftware that turns customers into promoters and service into growth,which is a really strong promise. I love all the themes there, but talkabout what you're doing there with the service hub yeah. So if you're going tobuild a product, come out, swaying on the tie line right, I think that's forus, the service of is a commination of over twelve years of experience, O hubspot and trying to grow or Ron Business, and you know back in two thousand andsix so we started the company. I think a lot of the way that you defineyourself to the market. Your perspective, buyers was thregOurmarbetin and you know we o spot...

...really pioneer and indown marketing andgrow through blonging, and you know wepinarts and stuff like that, and Ithink that then that was in bact a lot of the way when you defined your frand.It was frome of your own forse. I think now, twelve years on, I to thousand andNineteen Goni, two thousand and twenty like very soon. I think it's much more.Your customers that define your brands fo some of their experiences thatmatters much more than what you say. You really can't outshout them anymore.Every company is difined by its reviews. Every companyis defined Byis costicalreference program, and so we just seen this really big change and how peopleshopping by it has much more to do with the outcome of their peers. Customerexperiences that it does with what your sales person says. A whato parter sayso because of that we not crating the product to hopefully deliver delightfulexperiences. I really kind of channel that change tat were seeing in themarket to help our customers grow and grow better and more lot of way to lovehit. You tapped into a theme that I've heard many ways you added a differenttwist on it. A little bit is that that we're no longer in control asbusinesses and companies that it really does belong to the customer. I'm goingto go one layer deeper and give you the chance to talk about something I thinkyou enjoy talking about and presenting on and probably that you teach andshare internally as well talk a little bit about the underpinnings of the. Whybehind turning our customers into our best marketers, a d? And I think it'saround this, this trust gap. Can you define the trust gap that exists andhow that plays into all this yeah? So what I just described in the lastthought was really this change that we've seen over the last decade or sowe're fose have gone from trusting companies and trusting sales people,and you know, trusting you as a vender to really distrusting you and trustingonly people they know and their peers are perceived puriod group under Pewsites or something and so to me that that represents just a change ofbehavior and like you're, saying underpitting. That is, but I all thetrust gap. So I see it that Ye have a lot of messages in the marketplace an,but people are just less of US receptive and I think a lot of thet hasto do with the fact that a lot of those messages that we as people have beenreceiving over time, we've noticed our less than true. So when a company saysnowadays we did a bit of research recently that showd this orsate oservice report. Recently, when a customer says we are, you know we sawfor the customer, our customer first, only twelve percent of their prospectsactually believed that right, so the fast majority, like eighty eightpercent kind of start off and you started offin the back- fill with thembecause they disbelieve that your customer first, even if you actuallyare these just believe I because in the past hey've been burned by that Stam,and so I think you have this gap and we're a bit of e ditch on it. I thinkas a sort of industry or a community of consuvers vendors, where we don't trustbusinesses and, as a result, we trust other people an we blow for that kindof third party guarantee that we're not making the right decision to createcert, because we don't trust business anymore, Swe, inbernd so much over thelast you know decade or fifteen years, so good and so well stated. It remindsme of you know when setgoding offor, the television industrial complex andit's time to move away from that. It's like okay, so we moved in a lot of thestuff that you that you were talking about earlier into taking control ofdistribution, be able to have our own messages, direct, a consumer asessentially media companies Dhrough. All these various platforms that haveopened up, but even that now has been so apparently abused by marketers andothers that that it's created hat some of that distrust is now moved into thisnew zone would talk a little bit about some of those channels. I know you havesome thoughts around social and the way that's working around Google and someof the changes that they've made that have made acquisition difficult ordemand gen difficult. That makes this community of satisfied customer so muchmore valuable in terms of creating new customers, yeah so Hilo. When I thinkabout gross fron. The way you create growth, there's certain things, acertain tactics, certain points in time that work in certain ones that don'tter certain ones that are tablestakes but are not like the real needle moversfor your business, and so I think that you know acting as a media company andhaving that Web presence now wey have law and doing contact marketing, that'sall tablestakes. Nowadays I see the...

...really the interest moving towardssocial proof, and at has a lot to do with the trust conversation. So how doyou create social fruit? T like one of the nouns of social proof to me,there's some kind of obvious stuff and that's like putting case studies onyour websites, part of that you o being a media brand. There are having acustomer reference program where you can have folks antually talk to eachother. It's a deeper way to weave that social pruit through perhaps or salescycle. Then there's you know the way people talk about Bo on social,especially for be to see grands, and you know, there's ways to co off thisthree influencers, but really when you get that authentic tri, an peoplereally loving, you feels very different on our social networks and then I thinkyou have review sites which are just super key to gross nowadays, becausethat's where a lot of us go and when we search those are things that actuallyran exceptioally well in Google, because people trust them and peopleknows that they perform U Wel Ik. Those four case studies refers program,social proof and revew sices, as really kind of the key new nows of growth and,of course, Y as all the old stuff, contam marketing. All that it stillmatters. You still have to do it, but it's become a matter of playring onthis new stuff. If you want to actually grow and compete in a modern world wasa modern customer great. Can you go one step deeper onreference programs and the reason I ask is you know: We've had various effortshere. You know whether it's inside our support site, you know by customerrequest years ago I started a couple: facebook groups, you know, customerslike we want a place to connect with other people and Thet and talk a lit inmy experience. You have to do a lot of lifting to get them to participate andju t speak to one another and add value to each other. Can you share some ofthe things you've, maybe learned along the way with regard to those types ofprograms? Absolutely so. First thing is the same thing that you just said:Ethat, it's hard actually producing a you know. Successful Customer ReferenceProgram is quite a bit of work and I think that companies actually should bechoosing do we want to invest. You know somebody's salary and time in acustomer reference program where we want to invest that in Moreot, post orwhatever. It is like. I think, there's really a trade off there, because doingthis fright is having left pic. So the waystuff seen work are basically to usesome manidus to identify within your Husper base. People who love you. Ifyou have a lot of customers or if you deliver really good experience, eitherway you're going to have some people at least one. That's. A rabit fan reallywant to start with that. First one, and that's your very first kind of customerreference or reference of whale point whant to find that population, whetherit's one or a hundred or a thousand, you want to identify them and tag themin some way and then to your point, you need to cultivate, and you know, createsome system that ind of posely manit as a virtual cycle from that there has tobe something in it for that, whether it's just being recognized as a starcustomer. That could be enough. Sometimes it's about. If you do, if youdo, one of these calls Wi'll give you a fifty dollar Amazon if Har Differentthings wor for different businesses, ste an is identifying them cept to iscultivating them, and I think that there's a fair amount of turnover atleast fix to so require a lot of upkeep, because it's a big ask like if you askme to get on the phone or Gein on a get on a video with a paprospect of Youers,like that's a lot of mindtime and so folks get burned out on it. Folks turnover and it does take a lot of kind of costs, effort to keep it going, butI'll tell you a great costor. refererce program is just one of the strongestforms of Social Truth and it's one of the strongest ways I think, to reallycompete and win with the modern, Customr and smartan Errar of trustcap.So I would argue that the time a marketing department puts toardcultivating that reference program or any of these other kind of social prooftools is really valuable. But it should be looked at on a trade off comparisonwhich your ways we make that next landing page to make that next ad, orshould we invess ten next cowery becausetom references. Awesome, I'mgoing to guess just based on that response that you that you have someideas to share on this too talk a little bit, maybe about thingsthat you've tried and seen or seen some of the marketing folks at at hup spot.Try or maybe it's even Blod- into services and support at some levelwherear, some more passive ways to equip customers to be marketers. Onyour behalf, for example, again, just...

...speaking from our experience, we havean affiliate program. We've had it for years is one of the first things thatsome of our first customers started asking for you know a decade ago, andyet you know ninety percent of the revenues generated by three percent ofthe the affiliates you know, and it's in part because we're not equippingthem well enough and giving them stories to share in that kind of thing.Have you seen other more scaled programs that aren'tnecessarily as personal aren't as much of a heavy ask on the customer side,but it's still tapping into that in order to you know benefit from the the positiverelationships you've built with customers yeah. There are definitelyways to do this, and so because Tom Reprensbirtn that we just talked about,I don't know here- is quite a high investment on the customers part tohelp you as the business to grow, and so, if he's not think of it as aspetrum from high investment on the customers, part to low investment, youcan start to chart the path. Maybe even higher is, like you know, having acustomer come onsites to do reference, but you know that's quite fun. On theHigh Estin side, what's an oower at to me, that's like a retweet right, that'sa that's! A quick share on Linkedin or Instagram, or something like that rightand so there's kind of these one click, digital things, ther asincritis on oneAndbo Wen time, invester and then there' e. there's these sacrenestsheavy duting things on the on the other ad and so different things work fordifferent businesses, but for us at least what we've seen works is tounderstand Ayeit who those customers are, were your potential advocates andyou identify them for your kind of normal business operations, who youknow had a great response after a support case. Who gave you a ten onyour corterly NPS, whatever it is, you get that pool, and then you can kind ofjust throw them. These easy opportunities and you'll find at thatpool is likely to uptake on them if they're simple. So if you can send theman email wit say we just s, watch this Thaing. If you want to help us out,here's like a leazy, tweet, Cuttin, paste or quick here, and it's a simpleone. Click way to do this thing, so there's lots of ways to hardest thepower of that APIC Sigroum. To me for not rational stand py, it all starts inthe same place, go to identify your advocates, tats throuh normal businessprocess, and then it just a question of do you want to make Avyas or a Li ask,and sometimes it's both somethines are different types of customers withinthat's within that population that wantod the different fones, and sowhenever the lightest possible thing you can do is that's on the first semeof the spectrum and then things like costo reference programs and all thatto the other at awesome. I want to change course alittle bit you, you know what you've seen over the decade there I mean justin the way that you'r responding the depth and the clarity of thought aroundit. You're obviously deeply steeped in a lot of hard one lessons in learningsand observations and a very forward looking company, I mean for me hub spotwas really important in my career, as I was transitioning out of you knowprevious industry, that I'd spent twelve years in like what skills aretransferable and all the work that hub spot was doing was very helpful. For me,I've always appreciated and respected your company talk about and I'll takethis someplace. You know five five or ten minutes from now, but talk a littlebit about your career growth and progression within the company and I'lltee. This up with a few pieces of information and observations of my ownwhen I feel like a lot of younger employees want at all, and they want itall right now right and I'm imagine that there was some patience andflexibility and and stuff in your movement throughout the organization.But you know: you've been in you've, been there almost a decade in sevendifferent roles, or at least by title. It looks like it's your second companywith compete for a couple years prior to that and Undergrad Youre, aninternational relations philosophy and computer science talk about how did youland at hub spot? What is your movement been and what are some of the thingsthat you' picked up along the way that have now led you to be the generalmanager of the of the service hub? So, first of all, thank you so much for thekind words on you know the ways that HIV sponsiby able to help you that'slike inwarms, my heart, thit's, a lot of what we think fas our impact, ifover the long term, is just that that that's great, I love that I mean I canI guess that Ilso a story or a series of Maye Tese short stories here andthat I hope can help the listeners just like if you're early on your career, ifyou're trying to figure out you know...

...few years into the wordforce what to door if your return was coming back from you know being out or having family orsomething like that. Hopefully some of these stories can be abused to O guys.So for me, I think one thing that I've learned about myself over the over theyears is hat. I really like building things and I like going deep onsomething and building one thing, so I don't think as I've worned about myself,I'm not the kind of person a over the course of my career is going to startfifty companies and you know for going to be great success. That's not reallyme! I'm going to help build a few companies, hopefully Bilin. I somethingI'm exceptionally incredite that I want lik grandkids o crowd, so there's alittle bit in this first step. Just knowing who you are, I think you warenot through experience, but now I think you can try to think about thim. I, thekind of personat works in a lot of places and touches a lot of differentthings. Eram I sort of very broad, or am I very deep on one thing or I sortof Tshites, and I do a little bit of both D. so, for me you know I've beenlooking or in my ies after a few years of experience, really looking for acompany like it's really sick, my teeth in to incrove with, and I was lucky tofind out spot an moment where I really just needed a job, and it was a companythat I interviewed with. I felt excited about thet had somebuzz around itcandidly. I don't think I knew what I was getting into when I joined Houlspot. As about a hundred person company in my job was new costumer on work. Ithought it was a job I interviewe on a Saturday and again on the Monday, and Istarted working on the next Monday becaus, a friend of mine, worked hereand I used to go parties of people that also worke a hous pot. This was back intwo thousand and ten and so overtime, though I feel very fortunate to have afog with help spop and basically you know, I feel as though I've worked atthree or four very different companies as you go through the rocycles that wehave from a hundred employees to a thousand. You know through IPO, to aninternational company with thousands of employees. You can really chunk thatexperience off into three or four very different types of companies and I'lltell you working at a startup where it's just madness every day, oy'retrying to keep up and cause the earth to make it turn. Every single person isjust super focus n that growth, that's a really different type of experience,really different type of skillset and working at like a scaleup once you sortof arrived, and I really trying to scale that gort ton, the next level andit's less of a purely visural exercise, where kind of claing at the earth isnot the skillset, it's more about tactical, with commen en Ri strategersat the right time and making the right tectical moves to order to growp. So Ithink the companies really change over time, but I think that one of thechallenges in that girl actually keeping the focus on the customer, andso the one consistent thing that I've seen and really from our foundersbrandand Ar Mash that I've seen over and over and over over the last decade.is they are just absolutely obsessed with that customer experience? Thedefinition that I give you etin at the time of the show around what I thinkhustomer experience is the reality of the single customers thread of theirexperience. That really comes from. I think our founders point of to you withtheir obsession with that one customer experience and trying to make that asgreat as possible over time. I've had various job doing various things, butthat's really been our north start. Even if you know the skill sets of havechanged over time and we've kind of really worried about myself through theJourne, so good, I'm really glad. I ask that, and now I want to get a littlebit into how the customers change. How has the service function change so foryou, your initial role was onboarded new customers talk a little bit aboutthat journey, specifically for people tare thinking about customer successgenerally and customer support or customer service specifically like whatare some of the things you know you defined at a company level kind ofthese different chunks along the way. What are a few things you know forpeople that are somewhere along that journey as a company? What does that?Look like inside a CS organization along that path? Yeah great question,so I think at the beginning you know and you're, just in the primorial loseof a business and Hou're a couple of founders, maybe an engineer and perhapsa sales person. You know we all sit in the same room. You know at that point.Everybody really understands the fabric of the customer experience Yor doingsupport you know via tex Messagor onts at on the founder, cellphones right.It's like a everybody's, really pucped it and then there's a very interestingmoment that happens when that business...

...hires. The first person who job is isjust a work with customers. So you hire you know a vpof customer success. WerYou hire that support rap Whi's, just going to clear the que in the end ofthe day, whatever it is, because that what you've done is you taken thatresponsibility? This kind of holy responsibility of customer experienceand you've moved it from founderwell to employe level. That's like this. First,really, big change. That I think, is a super interesting one of the thins thatfirst hire is really really key. That person is also going to really definethe genetics of your you know, of Your Service Department and the Bature ofyour customer experience after that. So that's like a really really keyn on theothert moment. That happens after that, and I then thers one more after fowing.This one is that you go for one person to a cent of people and those seofpeople start to do different functions. So you know you hire a support personor two and they just kind of did stuff and then one day you wake up and yourealize. Oh, I have one person whose Jama is to make our new customersuccessful and I th N nother person whose job it is is to core this a Porcuand not o specialized right, and that point of specialization is interestingbecause you start to develop like expertise. You start to develop the wayat your company of doing say, onboard of doing support and I think that'swhere you start to develop practices, and you start to get really opinionatedabout. You know what is a new customer experience, Lok Qike at my company andthat's a very exciting time, and then the that tage to so t goes from justeverybody else: PFOR STARTIDG to get specialized n e stattory is reallyabout. I guess the customer experience in customer success, wicus for outcomesbecoming the culture of the company and so there's a really kind of a thirdlevel here where customer experience becomes the core of the mindset ofevery single person and everything you do you tranback to customer experience.So every time you do a sale, every way that you make decisions about yourcoming in you try to do whatever it is. You really value the CESTYOR experienceand you don't kind of let the tail wag e dog as saying Oh, how do we just growa little more well do on that customer thing later you really biw the customerfirst at scale that I think that third part is the hardest thing to do,because the first one hiring that first rap that second one specializing allthose happen to you on your journey to growth, but the third one of reallymaking customer experience the centerpiece of Tyour entire businessstrategy. That seems active effort from your founders for your executive team.All that I mean the right highers along o. The way a lot of things have to cometogether and make that work. Think doing. That is really what differentSIS amazing companies, fon modern era from okay whats. I want to work in abasing companies that really care about customers, but the customer experiencethe center of everything. Thoy do so. How do you've already mentioned severalways that that is that third piece is the thing wwe're at that door. Right,like you, know we're at that point. Hat were maybe a hundred and forty peopleand we're at that point where we have a lot of folks with direct customerexperience that are, you know, a few months on the job and a few years intotheir career, and so how do you know? How do you bring back all of theessence like the deep motivations and the intentional that- and you mentionedyou know the founders hiring well, I assume that it's baked into some of theonboarding, but what are some other practical ways that people can caninfuse the rest of the organization with a sensitivity toward customerexperience and its value and again just double back on customer empathy? How dowe, what are some practical ways that you all are raising that up inside TyeuOrganization Day Today Week to week? I love that question. I love itespecially because you use the work sensitivity in there and that's reallywhat it is, and so what you want to do is you want to cultivate a culture thatis sensitive to the custome and the way you do that, the way you create that Ithink, like the necessary depth of understanding. I have that, like finegrat sensitivity is you have to actually do things that don't scaleright so like when I was on boarding customers a hus spot? I spent eighthours Aday on the phone with them and I would touch you know whatever a hundredcustomers in a week, I was really sensitive to the customer experiencewhun. I was a director of support. You know with a fifty percent team that waskind of in my review near and is stuff...

...fore time in spreadsheets. I got reallygood at interviewing and iring te use of my time. I was a good director ofsupport but B Sensitivitie to the customer. I fades away, even if you canlean that on it. You know its tucks again, the Review Mer et's, a littleTorye and so the way that I think you really stay in touch. Even if you comefrom a place where you were super like itbendd in the customer sperience wayan touch, is you go back there? You spend time with customers, you don'tjust listen to the customer. Calls you actually are the person doing the callsyou you have to yourself respond to the question from the customer about whyexplis he didn't or or why did this ting go this way or you know, listen totheir accalades about something and the fact that they dustplay something elsean have to create that emotional state in yourself and have a really hightouch relationship with your customer. So I on tacical evel. What can you doto create that sensitivity on your executive team talk to a customer everymonth as a team? It doesn't scale it's O Wols, most expensive support, call oncertain ways, but do it because, if youll create that sensitivity- and itwill like kind of shake you out of your normalcy and it back into the customers,reality back into the customer experience if you're in product rightand you're doing research- and you know it's kind of quantitated- make Sureyourecoloring it with quality of research and talk to Tene custoers and feel whatthey feal and do scient visits right, specally, empathy and that sensitivityand a lot of that is doing things- twith don't scale. So I see our teamdoing this, where our executitio spends actually quite a bit of time withcustomers one on one, and you know, there's one way to look at it like wow,that's a really inificien use of highly a people's time. The other way isthat's themthing. That makes us ass and we would fail without that, and I thinkthat I think that second girl, that that is like the necessary way tocultivate sensitivity in the empithy, is just got to spend the time withgoswors it. Just people wo people, it's Great. It's one of my curiosities againthat motivates me within these conversations the customer experience.Podcast is doing the unscalable and a certain point. Maybe you do figure outhow to scale it, but I think so many people are looking to automate andscale I'm using your quotes for people not watching video clips, which you cando by visiting bombomcom SSh podcast. We want to scale these things, maybeprematurely. I think there ar some things to your point, there's somethings that that maybe shouldn't be scaled and there are other things thatyou can just push to the very very edge. It's like. Okay Cross benefit. Notthere talk a little bit about that. I guess from success in service andsupport standpoint. Human touch versus tech touch. How do you think about it?Is it? Is it purely a calculated peace or like what are some of your thoughtsaround when to be truly personal and then when to personalize? So I love people. I also love the SECmachines right. So I come on. I come on both sides of this Mi Thoris. They havedifferent. People have different skills. The machines machines are greatest sonethings, s, people, averated somethings, so to me, people are actually insanelyfexible and they're very agual. You can lack in in the morning and say ay likenot. Your job is to do this thing, but yesterday was this thing: That's muchmore difficult with the machine, but at least a relatively siver machine thatyou just stood up, but people are really fishble and they're. Very actualmachines are great et doing the same task for reulp and they're, really goodat doing things that people you know kind of, don't want to do also right.So to me, how do you take that, then what people are good at and whatmachines are good at and Createa customer success strategy that Panpooksand the answer is: If you have questions about what your process oughtto be so like say, let's take a new customer making that success. If youhave questions about what it takes to make a customer successful, that is nota job for a machine. THAT'S A job for human! Yes, Mel can help right, but ahuman could just talk to twenty customers are probably figureing outover the course of belief in a much cheaper and more atual, wit d. Sothat's kind of the beginning of the story often start some people whenyou're trying to ask those questions of what ought we to do then, once you knowwhat you ought to do, then it's time so like kind of blend people in MHE,scunes of some really cool sidework thing and starts to alment the PORANactivity of people and start to move some of the supper work. More peoplework off of their place, so they found...

...there's an email that they send everytime it works really well cool. Let's no have the persons on the emails,eoitions o being Matshoul, come from a crm or lit like managing solution, orsomething like that over time, as the people figure out more and more things,and it more and more of it falls into kind of like repeatable, successfulstuff machines are great adthat overtime, in fact, even that wholeprocess, perhaps onboarding itself might get fully out of it. But I'm abig fan of really starting with people, people I Adda refexmoke, Bhut overtime,Glaria, an machines and more and more overtime that becomes more mechanist.The trick in that is that sometimes there are changes that happen eitherexaustions changes and the marketplace. Or you know the way humans are behavingwhich, U talked about it, the ITLA little bit of the front of the podcast,or maybe you change your pricing or your packagin ors newpetitor, and thatcan really come in and create like some waves that e that have to go back inwith people and refigure out kind of ficx you back to he beginning of thisprocess. So to me, you start with people because e Flet, well, youautomate over time and youill get each one of your processes individuallysomewhere off that spectrum, and then you need to kind of have a 't knowhygene process for making sure that in fact, yes, these are good and you're,not fooling yourself into thinking that you've got it all figured Outo, sayingorwere staying in touch with the customer, and you really are teen tounderstand what the experience consists of, even when you have automated a lotof he way so good that and that hygiene process is so easy to miss. This ideathat we do need to carve out the time or to make a process to double back andreview and make sure that this hall works the way. The way I heard that'sgrossly over simplified, and if anyone enjoyed that as much as I did just hitthe bounce back button and listen to that response again, because there's alot of really good stuff in there to really dum it down, it's the machine isgoing to operate against a rule set. The rule set needs to be written andhumans are in the best position to learn and take some of this complexinformation. Put it together. The nuance and the detail: folded togetherinto the rule, sets that the machine operates by periodically check it andmake sure that the rule set still applies in that the machine is stilldoing his job. I'm going to hate you witcouple other, just kind of themes orhigh level questions before wrapping the way I always like to wrap the show,and one of them is based on a word that I saw on the service have website insomthing. I've been thinking about quite a bit. There are a number ofbooks written with this in the title, talk a little bit about friction andfriction less talk about the frictionless experience, and whattriggered that, for me was that you know this blend of both and human andmachine is how I think we get best to frictionless. But whe are some of yourthoughts around friction. FRICTIONLEST imind, you frictons, is a piece of thecustomer experience and it something customers feel throughout theexperience, sometimes Mor tanups. So, for instance, if I want to engage withyour company to accomplish a certain thing- and I can't do it the way that Iwalk, I experence friction. So it's really a it's a very customer censure,I kind of being this freshit thing and different customers and differentbusiness of different definitions of what Frictionis S, there's not a onesize of its all Fristan's. If I wanted to, you know sign up for spotify, Idon't want to talk to a person. Spotifyind, maybe talk to a person tosign up for T. I wu INSERV that friction ow Han, I would be lest likewesign up a spotifi Wi. I wanted to cancel my spotifie account had to talkto a person, abease theyre, not fiction. That would make me more upset on theway ou the door, but te Wanin to buy a house spot enterprise class software.In order to do you, know cram or help desk or something I' likhe actuallywant to talk to a person, and in fact, if you push me to a Selfser rispersosexperience, I might not like it. I might actually want to talk to a youwith me in order to Bate my decition, and so that's a case in which sometimesbuying and doing that sell service. That's about reducing fictions, ARDrechines, sometimes about reducing friction by an a like human touch. Soonce again, it's understanding your customer in the moment what theyactually need and finding the pacth of these resistence. For that anythingelse is creating friction ND. So for different businesses, it's reallydifferent things. There's high considerate purchases will considerpurchases there times were e, really want contltation and Advis there'stimes we want to be left alone. I just do what we know is right and I thinkunderstanding your customer or reading your segments of customers, O subforsomers within your customer base, and...

...try and really think the key verbis tomatch the way your customers want to be treated with the channels and themechanisms that you offer. That's how you reduce rection Yo, do that Trofesional selling think there's a lot of ways to redispristion in the salesprocess, Trou that Frfi Fritonalis Service, so that people can get theirown answers when they want, but also have the help they need when they needit and there's all sorts of ways across the wif Segal to reduce friction, and Ithink nowadays, the brand with the least Frictian wints. That's how yougreata great customer experience. That's how you grow! It's how you beatthe competition, it's less about even having the best product is more outhaving the best experience more by having the lowest friction hundredpercent agree. That's an easy story for a satisfied customer to tell right,like I went in with this opportunity to this problem or this challenge andguess what it was, unlike all the other ones it just like got resolved or I gotto completion right away and it was easier than I thought, because theexpectations around a lot of the stuff are so low in this friction zone islike moving so quickly. There's a lot of prigress there. So I thinkexpectations will change rapidly, but you know were still maybe in a windowwhere it's not that hard to exceed expectations. The other place I wantedto go here quickly is video, so you know we turns out. We both send a lotof simple personal unscripted videos to connect and communicate with peoplemore effectively. We swap videos prior to this call. So when you came on, Iwas like hey. It's Mike Talk a little bit about why you like video, and maybeeven how you've seen it be successful within your within your support efforts.I just see the proogress of videos technology over the last, don't knowfive years or so so really fast and it's a fantastic way to humanizeexperiences in a world where I think we're really hungry for for humanexperiences, and so you O, we started probably way back in twenty fourteenoar so and our supportn team using video as a tool, especially when werealized that we're two emails into to a ticket, but man this could get reallynartoly. Let me record a two minute: We call them video, voicemail, O kind ofsent them Lon with a little bit of test and those just like the opportunity forsurprises of light ind, those it's just amazing people, don't expect it. It'sstill novel enough that it kind of feels new and fresh to the recivientand it just it can help you get over. So many I think hurdles that technologyomposes like when you communicate your email is always back to neln. You readthe email Kay. How should I respond? How should I craft this ther's? Allthis like, Inter monologue, Youj just dispense with all that when you're on ajust a phone call, you never know. What's going on it, somebody like BooMike something on the side or whatever, like singrenntess video, an get getaway from that ulease somebody, a voicemail, you don't know if you'reactually communitying what they need, but when you'R company with video andyour face and intolation ind, your voice cost your face. It just reallyenriches it. So we just seen video as a tremendously useful ways to shortcutlike and save time, but siultaniously. Actually get better outcomes foreverybody, it's just like good things coming to those that are more human andvideo. Nowadays, I think, is a technology that really enables human aswell. Who knows what's next, maybe it's like you know I went to reality orreviewr or something like there's something thet that w'll be the thing,but I think fright Allat this moment, I probably for the next coupleof years, Oat least video was a really really great way to humanize. Yor salesexperience support experience whatever it is an just like just shortcut a lotof the stuff and just por a person, a person to get to where you want to goso good and all it takes is getting past that you know that that tense,that challenge, that people feel in crafting the right response and ded. Iget the tone right. You know, there's the same thing with getting comfortableon camera, but once you move past that I love what you offered there. First,the the person that's more human wins, but then also you can save time whileimproving the outcome. Once you get past that basic comfort of recordingand sending videos I' like this has been awesome, the ton of value- I knowI kind of took it a little bit all over the place, but I know that people aregoing to enjoy the conversation and play back very very much before we go.I always love to give you the opportunity to think or mention someonewho's had a positive impact on your life or career and to mention a companythat is doing. Customer experience...

...really really well yeah. So I think oneof the people that's had a really formative role. In my a lot of theconversations we've had on this podcast today is Brian. My CEO and you knowhe's somebody: That's had a infredibly tipe focus on the customers throughoutour growth, but he's also somebody who you know hi've been in asially, coscontact with for now ten years and he's one of the most adaptable, even beingson the planet, and I just I'm constantly impressed by his consistencyof focus, but the new tools and Nour level Sathe sa Thell to reach in hisjob function, which sceol a software company has James from like founder tonow. You know, let's Teo coal, public company and it just it's veryimtrestive- to watch him but also watch the customer focus and he's been agreat man toward me. Helping Yo make the right decisions, and you knowstartid Corol, my career to so that's on the mentor side. A lot of what Ihave to say is sort of you know, share it a Bryan in terms of y tonaity rightand then on the on the customer side. Excuse methe of the business side thatI I think at really interesting. I find that the place where customer experience is most importantis where the thing that you're selling is a little bit of a commodity right,geting, O a bunch of places and the more competitive the industry. The morehousefor experience today is causing er to be winter soer standout winter.Sometimes. So, when I look at that, I think of some industries that are kindof like whole school Industri. Put I wooll, get like the mattress Inustrey,an what Caspor or, like you know, those kind of quick shiper mattresses aredoing with customer sperrence, maybe sure he havig a great experience, butan industry that I really really like. It's actually the makeup industry andthere's two brands in there want to call out in particular what is CalleGimasy. They want us, go glos, yer right and these brands are selling theyup and they kno. They have a Braandt identity. They have such amazing, pullthrough O that brain identity from their website to their instagram totheir service or twittering. It's just so consistent. You feel like you'retalking to a person that has a real identity. I think it's an an amazingjob of cultivating themselves in terms of personas and delivering acustomerSxperienceis, really in line with what their customers Wan so lone of thoseindustries ar love those brats great recommendations, Hey. If someone wantsto follow up with you, because they want to see what you're sharing andconnect and communicate with you or they want to check out the service huborer, they want to check out a hub spot wher, some places that people canconnect with you and the work that you're doing yeah. So if you want toget in touch with me, a love talk wit to you guys, especially if you made itthrough the entire podcast butt's. Definitely talk calling me on twitterat redboard. My last favoror Winkin easy to find them. If you want to wantto worry about more about the hub spot service on, go to housepotcom service,so punch information, there a again be happy to talk to anybody about theirexperience, customers, growing, scalling teams or service software,whatever Ie love this stuff and think you guys for us awesome and I do wantto double down on what might just shared with you as a listener. If yougot this deep into the episode, you probably have a ton of ideas Mike hasjust made himself available to you and I'll say it', someone who does the samething, not nearly enough people take people up on the opportunity, so I knowhe's sincere about, and so, if you have some some ideas or questions oranything reach out to Mike. Thank you so much for listening and thank you foryour time, Mike and Absolute pusure reason: clear, communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidanceto pick up the official book. Rehumanize, your business, how personalvideos, accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in ordertoday at Bombamcom Book. That's Bo mb combcom buck thanks for listening tothe customer experience. podcast remember the single most importantthing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for yourcustomers, continue learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribingright now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombomcom podcast.

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