The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

36. The Financial Side of CX: Which Customers Should You Invest In? w/ Sarah Toms

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In any given company, not all customers are created equal. 

So, we need to know where, when, and in whom we should be investing. 

Well, on today’s episode of The Customer Experience podcast, we did something a little bit unique — we put customer experience into a financial context. Sarah Toms came on the show to talk about customer centricity: aligning your products and services to the needs of your customers to maximize their value to your firm. 

For the past six years, Sarah has served in IT Director roles at The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. She is currently the Executive Director of Wharton Interactive at The Wharton School and recently co-authored a book titled, “The Customer Centricity Playbook.”

What we talked about:

  • What is customer centricity
  • What are common myths and misperceptions about customer centricity
  • How to get an approximation of your LTV
  • What sparked Wharton Interactive

Resources we talked about:

 

Check out our podcast on Apple Podcasts/Apple Podcasts, or on Google Podcasts/Google Play, or Spotify and even on Stitcher.

Customer centricity is not aboutcustomer service, it's not about amazing customer experience. Even itcertainly collaborates with those ideas. It accentuates those ideas, but itreally is about being more data driven and surrounding your strategy and yourvalues around this idea of customer lifetime value. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast, here'syour host ethen baute in any given company, for example.Yours, not all customers are created equal, so we need to know where, whenand in whom we should be investing. Today's episode does something a littlebit unique will put customer experience in a financial context. Our guestentered the tech fieldaround the rise of the COM era and she founded a coupleof softhware and tech companies at that time. For the past six and a half years,she served in it director roles at the Warton School of the University ofPennsylvania. Workan, of course, is consistently ranked as one of the topbusiness schools in the world and in fact US news and world reporter has itat number one in the two thousand and twenty rankings. Just over a year ago,she became the cofounder and Executive Director of Warton Interactive, wherethey're on a mission to transform education with interactive platformsand simulations, so I hope we'll get into that, and she and I have somethingsurprising in common we've, both Co, authored and Amazon number one bestseller in the customer relations category. Her book is called thecustomer centricity playbook. Sarah Tom's welcome to the customerexperience podcast. Thank you. So much for having me is a real pleasure good.I'm really excited to get into this customer centricity concept in theplaybook in particular, but we'll start with the definition of customerexperience. What comes to mind when I say that phrase to you so for me,customer experience is really that last inch or that last layer that thecustomer is really able Youre surficing. All of your expertise, your goodies,your your secret sauce to your customers and its really. What thecustomers get to touch and experience. I hate to use the the word experiencein the definition, but it really is how you kind of bring it together and it'ssort of when you think about like an artist, putting together an oilpainting and all those layers that go into really what that final. Aestheticmight be. I love it. It's got that front of House component, but the waythat you drew in the the painting at the end, there is like there's so muchin there and a lot of it. You can't see it's the foundation for what comes overthe top of it, so good love it I'm going to. Rather than have you definedcustomer Centrocity, I'm just going to read the definition and it's kind ofbreaks into three parts and then have...

...you just kind of break that down alittle bit and give a little bit more context to it. So, in CustomerCentricity, your coauthor Peter fader define customer centricity as astrategy that aligns the development and delivery of a company's productsand services with the current and future needs of its highest valuedcustomers. In order to maximize these customers long term financial value tothe firm kind of break down those elements a little bit, it's a strategy,there's alignment, our current and future needs of highest value customersand then maximizing that over time, yeah, so one of the biggest shifts withcustomer centricity compared to the more traditional approaches to not justmarketing but also financial strategy and management, is really shifting yourfocus from looking in the rear view mirror, which is how did we do lastmonth? What are our profits? What were our customers doing in the last quarterof the last year? Etca so really looking at kind of the top line orbottom line, and what customer centricity does is it now it makes youlook through the front windshield. It's leveraging all of that amazing pastdata with respect to your customers and then thinking about how you canleverage those insights and draw ideas for how those customers are going toperform those ones that stay with you howe future customers who come to youwho behave similarly to your existing customers, how they might perform, andthen how do you align all of your tactics and functions and otherstrathengic goals so that you're investing appropriately depending onthe lifetime value of those individual customers? I would also say that youknow I've been working with Pete now, for six years, we've developed anincredibly a deep relationship with respect to customer centricity. Youknow obviously cooffhering a book together, creating a really elaboratesimulation together, and I would venture to guess that his definitionfrom his first book to now has also changed just like we all, you know,evolve over time, and he would also be saying that it's not just all aboutyour high value customers, it's what you do with those those mid and loadshere as well. That's all part of the customer centric strategy, just as muchas what you're doing with your high value customers yeah. I love it againfor folks listening. The book is called the customer, centricity playbook andthere's a really great passage in there about this customr report, folio, which,which kind of speaks specifically to that evolution of the definition thatyou just offered there is that you know it's more than just the high value,it's everybody, and so how do we manage this together? So before we go on? Iwould love for you to knock down because I'm sure this book, just in thetitle and in the phrase Customer Centricity, you know there are a lot ofmisconceptions, ind myths around it when the first book was released andI'm sure some of those were kind of cast onto this because of a similartitle. What are some common mits ind m misconceptions when people hearcustomer Centricity, yeah and people...

...actually say this all the time hewished that Hehad used a better term than customer centricity, because theproblem is. Is it sounds it's like it's just putting the custom, the customerat the center of everything you're doing and customer centricity is reallyquite the opposite will not be opposite, but the first thing about customercentricity is really recognizing and celebrating Heterigenaty, recognizingthat not every customer comes to Ou the same way with the same Fatonpropensities. You know their propensity just say to spend their love for you,their willingness to go through the gates of hell. You who, ar her Peece,say that quite frequently, so customer centricity is not about customerservice. It's not about amazing customer experience. Even itcollaborates with those ideas, it accentuates those ideas, but it reallyis about being more data driven and surrounding your your strategy and yourvalues around this idea of customer lifetime value release, starting withCLB and Hevergenaity in the first place, love it for forks that don't have aclear picture of their own CLV or LTV. Is it sometimes referred to we'retalking about lifetime value of the customer were a couple easy ways to getgoing in getting a good approximation of your of your CLV. Absolutely it's assimple as beginning with understanding, recency frequency and monetary value,the old RFM. So if you can start with sort of understanding how often yourcustomers are coming and spending with you how much they're spending with you-and you know how, when was the last time they came, this can really be thebasis of the beginning of a model. What it is with respect to Clb, though, isyou're, then trying to see okay, let's look into the future, and can we startto predict whether those customers are going to continue spending at the sameRFM based on sort of the predictors that other others like them, have beendoing? There's a bit of statistical analysis in there. I will also say thatthere are tremendous resources, open source, rese sources out there as well,and we do speak about this in the book. You know this Aur model that Pete hashits open. SOURCER are also new companies coming up all the time thatare getting better at doing CLV calculations. Am I over simplifying itto say that a recurring revenue model or a subscription model? It might be alittle bit easier to do this because, he spoke to say, say a grocery or abookstore, or not Amazon or even Amazon. Right, like I go to Amazon a certainnumber of times, I haven't been there in a certain while when am I going tocome back and that's kind of in that answer, you just offered. You know ifsomeone is on thousand nine hundred and ninety nine a month recurring. How doesthat differ in terms of? Is it easier to do lifetime value? In that scenario?Absolutely, in fact, if you want to get...

...very specific about this, there are twodifferent calculations used for subscription versus or non subscriptionmodels, so you're completely right there. Even there is most certainly aproblem. It's difficult to know you know. Is this customer who came andbought a cup of coffee from me yesterday going to come and find thatyou know another cup of coffee from me tomorrow. It's much much easier. If youknow that a customer who has just called up and said, I want to cancel myservice, you know that they have gone for sure versus somebody who came dbought a pair of jeans from you last season. Are they going to come in andbuy? You know their spring stuff from you in the coming season, so it's mostcertainly more complex, but not impossible. Awesome. I want to go quickly through afew, just kind of jump out ideas that I think will be interesting intriguingfor people. I don't intend to summarize this book, which I'Msures a summary ofyears of work as you've already suggested, but I do want to get into acouple o these ideas, s I'll just throw out some words and just you know giveme, give your thoughts on that demographics and Personas as antiquatedand flawed yes. So this was a fun chapter to write and our publisher andeditor really loved it as well, because it was just ideas that they hadn't eventhought of in their day today. Work and once that you know I've been workingnow, you know in the Technology Industry for over twenty five years, wedo use personas for sure when we're developing o know software and APPS orour different types of customers, and it is certainly flood it's. You knowit's a very blunt instrument for what you're trying to do given how much datawe have and how quickly that data shifts and changes. So a big part ofyour slb calculation is seeing what happens to those clbs for each cohoardover time, because that's shifting and changing, if you're, working with apersona that personas less likely to shift and change in line with that data,the other problem we have as humans as we're really flawed. You know we lookat each other, there's a lot of unconscious bias going on and we fillin the gaps. You know and so we're saying. Oh you know Debbie housewife oryou know Susan Professional and that's supposed to represent an entireclassification of customer, and is that cus customer representation reallyaccurate. You know, and I think, if you were to go further and really explorewho those customers are with the data itself, you're not going to come upwith necessarily somebody who adheres to a certain skin, color or age ordemographic or or you know whatever. So, if someone listening is operating basedon, let's see generic personas, they cuttheir primary customer base in their prospect base into like four stripesright, like ou just offered Suzi homemaker or something you know.What is one step that can be taken out...

...of kind of generic blunt, notparticularly useful, because it's so overly generalized, what's a step thatwe can take out of that Wutl, probably taking away the skin deep aspects ofthose individuals that you're trying to represent in the persona like that.That really is, you know the mistake, because what happens when you start tobe attractive to a whole new demographic and you're, now you'reactually cutting yourself short. So I would say step one just generalize thet. If you need to use a persona, call it persona a you know and make surethat you're explicit with what persona a represents like maybe there arecharacteristics around gender and h age that do fall into that. That do happento correlate to that Corsona and that's fine, but don't necessarily then createthis entire personality around it that isn't going to shift and change withthe data. So that would be my number one suggestion great there and you'vealready kind of referred to this. But I'd love to talk about it more becauseit's such a big and important idea- and it underpins the entirer customercentricity approach, which is there is no such thing as and I'm air quotinghere, the customer, an you already did a drive by, but I think it's worthdoubling back on yeah. We hear this all the time and those are really puttogether. Two dirty words for me and theater. We don't like to hear becauseagain it's generalizing. It's basically saying we're going to come all thisamazing customer data together and we're just going to come up with anaverage, and we know that when we take averages of anything that it representsnothing. So if you're taking an average of a clb which is really really highand one that's really really low, you're going to end up in the middleand you're not going to really be aligning your strategies and yourefforts to either so that's what we're talking about is getting way more. Looklaser focused about what you're doing when you're investing in your differentstrategis. So the customer should not exist and in fact Peter has worked witha number of industries and companies where they made it. You know actuallyhaving a swear jar setup so that anybody who starts to rever to theircustomer as to stick a dollar in that jar. Nice there's so many ways thatthat could be used because I'm sure it would fill up pretty quickly,especially as a companyis trying to make this cultural and practical shiftin the way that they look at generically speaking their databaselast one here on this kind of words response. I thought one of the beststories in the book for me to understand what customer centricityisn't isn't and some steps we can take going forward. Was that starbucksexample right? So you know to go back to the myth and misconceptions like Ohstarbucks, of course, their customer centric. They write names on cups andyou know they're very customer oriented, but that's not what this is about.Historically, they hadn't been customer centric, but they'v made a few strides.Can you talk a little bit about how they historically have not beencustomer centric and some of the stuff...

...they're doing now? That starts to fitthat mold a little bit yeah? No, it's a it's great timeiy. Actually, with thatquestion SOS, I just had a conversation with starbucks pre prior CMO, and shesaid that when Petes first book came out, where he really did talk about hownot customer centric stirbucks is basically starbucks was like crap. Whatdo we do with this, and she said I think we should pick up the phone andcall him he's right. Let's start the conversation, and so that did start anumber of conversations to help starbucks along the way, with becomingmore customer centric. So where they began was yes very friendly. Youdefinitely feel, like you know, you're being well taken care of in theirstores. But when you go, let's say from one on one city block to another: Thereis absolutely it's sort of like you're shaking an Etra sketches you're walkingthat block. They have no concept that you are a customer and how valuable youare and what you like to purchase, etc, etc, and then, when they launched theirloyalty program, they actually made a mistake in the beginning where they didnot hook that loyalty to value it was actually to that that frequency elementof the RFM that I was talking about. So how many are you purchasing from us,not necessariy, how much and that was ther their? You know big mistake thatthey did correct. There was a slight lip word. Folks were a little bit upsetand you probably remember when the if youwre a starbucks said purchaser,where they did make that shit hand I before that shift people would say:Okay, you just bring these up as separate purchases, and that would helpwith their loyalty. Now it really is tied to to their value, which isfantastic. Is such a good example. This idea that you know y your most commonstore. Note actually knows you by name. They actually know your drink. Theygreet you by name and it's this very relationship, foriented thing, but youknow three blocks away or if you're you know traveling for work and you're aanother starboks, they don't have any ideas to just kind of closing that gapdown such a good idea, and I was such a an easy example to understand. I lovedit. So it's not just a playbook. It's also a manifesto talk about themanifesto. What motivated that? Why create a manifestiol around themovement? What are some of its primary elements? Yeah? So I talked about this and it really isone of my favorite memories of writing the book with Peter One thing aboutcoathering a book, and I highly recommend it to anybody, because itreally is an opportunity to check your line spots and to challenge one anotheron kind of what you just sort of assume is the way to think so. So manyconversations that happened along the way as we were, writing the book andone of the most memorable was when we hit the last chapter, which we reallywanted to end on this sort of call to action. High Note, you know, and werecognize that we hadn't yet delped into everything that mats happened inthe Organization itself in order to...

...become you know successful in theircustomer centric journey. So there is a culture element. There is a leadershipand Byan and championship element, there's an approach to process changeand you know making sure that you've gotthe support from even like a project manager or program manager standpoint,because it is change management in action. You know when you're movingfrom product Centra city to customer centricity, there has to be. You know,into the weeds who's managing the pieces of data we need to chase andmaking sure that we've got to serm that can handle what we need, etc, etc.There's a lot of work to be done and the first versionof the Chapter Pete and I worked away at it and I remember sitting in hisoffice and we kind of looked at each other, and we were just like thisstinks. It's awful. It's not what we want it, it's terrible. We want thiscall to action, and so I have a very long commute home fromPhiladelphia and I was sitting there and thinking about it and thinkingabout it and I'm, like you know what this reminds me of reminds me of when Istarted out in technology and just you know, we were so excited about what weyou know what was coming our way in the with respect to the opportunity thatthecom was going to provide and then in reality what we were faced with when wewere creating software and creating these amaze amazing Internettechnologies was we dofollow these lousy processes, and so we really haveagile and the agile manifesto to thank for the big revolutionary changes thatcame to technology, and then you know, quite frankly or now everywhere. Youknow they're PERPASIV. So I was thinking about that and I'm like youknow, I think a manifesto is what we need for customer centricity as well. Ithink this is the time where you know people have short estension pans. Weneed something that is just easy to understand, easy to kind of sum up.What we're talking about in four simple points and if folks look at thesepoints and adopt these points, then they'll be well on their way, and so Iscribbled up a Manibesto and kind of you know tripes my way across campusthe next day and went into Piz's office and he's like yes, this is it so westarted to work on the manifestor together and we got to the pointactually, where p texted me, and he just has texted me a couple days laterand said we screwed up and I'm like. Oh No. What did we do now? I S, I calledhim right away and he said you know. I think this whole book should have beencalled the customer centricity Manevesto. We should have started witha Manefesta of course, weere way too far long. We already had the cover ofthe book designed and everything else, but by that point. But what we reallyhope at this manifesto is that it will become the cull to action. You knowthat we really envision for the final chapter awesome. I will drop the linkto the website that has the manifesto and anyone can sign it. I recommendreading the book first so that you are...

...very clear on what you're adopting,although the phrases around them are very clear in an of themselves, andwe've already talked about a number of them. For example, the first point inthe manifesto is customer heerogeneity over the average customer or for ourearlier conversation over the customer. Air Quotes Right E H, so at so thelanguage Hereis really simple, but I'll drop that if you visit bombomcomforward podcast, I write a blog post for all of these and you can go visitthere. A'll drop links to a lot of the things that we talk about in thisconversation. So if you're listening nd you want to check out the manifesto, itwill be easy to access and, of course it is a chapter in the book. So justyou know we did this a little bit earlier, but now that we have morecontext, you know if someone's listening and they're thinking thissounds great. I just read the Manifesto I signed it. I believe in these thingsI wish we were thinking and working more this way inside my organization,where have you seen it be successful like what are a few ways to get startedfor successful implementation, for example, is this coming out ofmarketing wors his coming out of Admin and finances this coming out of a datateam? Is this coming out of like where, where have you seen the movement? Let'scall it this. This change management, this this new behavior in this newpasture and practice whet. Have you seen it emerge from inside anorganization for successful uptake besides the obvious one that you meed,executive, bying at some point yeah I mean this is by far my favoritequestion and in getting to interview so many great success stories likeelectronic arts and the La Dodgers for this book. A pattern really emerged tome, which was number one. You have to start small, you know, and all of thethe beginning sort of those initial seeds for customer centricity all beganwith somebody having a gut instinct that something wasn't quite right. So agreat example is ea where they were spending. Just cross the line, twentypercent on marketing didn't matter what it was, here's the money go, spend itno idea. If you know it's doing what it's supposed to be doing, and a fewvery I mean not necessarily senior. These were junior data analysts, whosaid you know. I think we can just take a small amount of that and we can justdo a very easy experiment and start to really understand how we're spendingthose marketing dollars and that really became the nucleus of what drove it nowdrives their customer centric strategy. So first and for my most identify asmall experiment, that's measurable that isn't going to! You know lead tobig issues. If it fails, you know you want to fail fast and feal quickly andfail small number. Two. You need the data so making sure that you've gotsupport from either somebody on your you know your data analytics team. Ieven had a conversation with a friend of mine who create you, know, she's asmall pottery. She makes her own...

...pottery here in the WestchesterPennsylvania area, and she just read my book she's like I have so manyquestions, I'm like okay, let's, let's hear the Nancy and her big thing was:She has no data, you know, and so we just very very simply. We had you knowa thirty minute conversation about what she could start to map out even inexcel as a beginning point, because she basically treats all her customers thesame they're all highly valuable, and she must give them all just as muchtime and just as much of her as and so even though that's you know, maybe asimplistic example that can really be applied into any business. So I wouldsay starting small and making sure you've got that data to both test yourhypotheses and help to then grow from ar incredibly important. Goodrecommendations really appreciate it, and you know I'm sure people are invarious stages of this. When I think about where we are at Bombam. You knowwe're doing some of these things. Well, some of them not as well we're notnecessal. We have a lot of good data and we use it, but we're notnecessarily using it exactly in this way. That's that's prescribed it's it's.So I can imagine folks. Listening are all ranges from pottery to you knowfortune, one thousand companies that do have a full and proper data analyticsfunction, and it's just a matter of getting them coordinated and aligned.Let's switch gears a little bit you're the cofounder and executive director ofWarton Interactive. What was one of the sparks like because you'd been withWharton for five years at the time? What was one of the sparks to reallyget this going? What kind of led to the cofounding of interactive so manythings so yeah? So I was brought onto the Warton school to really work with.So one of the things I'm very, very proud of at Warton is our culture ofinteractive teaching and learning. So there is not really a single class. Ican think of where Thet's this passive experience, where it's sort of sage onthe stage our professors- really, I think, are you know there many reasonsfor why they are the the best in the world, but one is that they really giveour students a chance to roll up their sleaves and experience the theorythat's being taught in the classrooms and some of the best ways to bring thattheory to life and see it in practice is to create sometimes simple,sometimes very elaborate, simulations and games that the students caninteract with where they can see the tradeoffs with decision making and theycan really practice in a safe environment. It's sort of like a flightstimulator for business. If you will so. The team I was running before at thewarden school is called the learning lab and the oulwest junior learning lab,and we that team had been around sine one thosand, nine hundred and ninetynine and had created a number of really. You know best ind class businesssimulations over the course of he time and while I was there, I started tonotice you know, being sort of this outsider to the higher education space.I started to notice a number of sort of...

...impediments and things that sort ofdidn't sit right with me from a technologist standpoint. Number one isjust the the complexity of the languages that you need and bringingtogether the expertise to actually create these. These simulations is very,very hard and takes a long, long time and cost a lot of money, and so what italso does is it starts to create a usin them, so is one thing being the Wartonschool or the Harvar business, school, etc. We have the resources, but, as Istart to go around and talk to you know at other conferences and such and otherbusiness schools, I started to realize that there really was like you know. Iwas kind of talking to denair like it was like. That's really Nice Terea. Youcan do that at Wharton. We just don't, have you know the resources to be ableto create something? Similarly, even though we have faculty who have tons ofgreat ideas and would love to be doing this, so expense experchise, all theseother things. That sort of you know it's not a democratic approach toeducation, which also doesn't sit well with me, and also the University ofPennsylvania was founded by a quaker. We really do believe in these. You knowthese quiker values. So, as I started to work, I developed an amazingrelationship with Professor Ethen Mollick, who has written a booksonggaming. He brings in a lot of things from Fr to other Games into hisclassrooms and we started to work on a number of different platforms, whichmeant that we were able to create elaborate, hyper, realistic,experiential learning that we could do actually quite inexpensively, and thisyou know this experience that we incubated and these things that westarted to create at the learning lab. We realize that we really had somethingthat we could. You know, expand and start to offer to the world, and sothat's what we've been doing? We decided to keep the learning lapfocused on Warton Faculty and what they're doing important classes. Wedidn't want to kind of you know, take over any of that and make sure thatthat you know remains preserved en morton. Interactive has been created todevelop these platforms that we can share, quite literally with anyeducator all over the world n were really really excited about it. Awesomethat was whon I follow up. Questions is, who is the customer of WartonInteractive? You know? Is it other educational institutions, our companies?Taking this on, you know, is companies? Are you know? Investing more indevelopment is a way to a have, a better team, but be also probablyincreased fotension of the best employees like who is subscribing tosay the customer centricity simulation and some of these other tools thatyou're providing yes for sure. So really our customers, learners,learners and educators, and, I would say, I mean cu. The customers centristysimulation is a great case in point where this has become a catalyst for somany organizations. You know we played it with major social mediaorganizations to bnext to you name. It...

...are using a customer centristysimulation to really help as sort of bringing together cross functionalteams, and that was the the point I forgot to make earlier with yourquestion is another element you need in order to be successful as making surethat you have crossventional team sitting at the table and that's what wedo with the simulation. We make sure that we set up these very diverse teamsthat are all working together through this day and long experience and by theend, we're really talking about what specifically are the small experimentsshe want to run after this experience today. What impedimens do you foresee?What are the internal stake holders in the external steakholders that you'regoing to need to reach out to and start to bring along to make sure that thisjourney is successful? So absolutely our goal is to bring this sort ofWarton approach to interactive learning, quite literally to the world greatbefore we wrap, I would love to know a little bit more on your ex about yourexperience. You're involved with the women in Tech Summit, women in tech issomething that we talk about here at Bombam and have done some. You knowsmaller scale events around it, because it's such an important thing, but talkabout your passion for women in Tach, like what is the problem. What are somesolutions and what has been your experience over the past twenty fiveyears? Oh yeah, I mean just to try to sum up a question like that: Yeahsocancan o give you the summary of the last twenty five years. Absolutely noproblem, so I mean here's one of the problemt like just looking.Statistically, we are th. The number of women in tech is dropping every singleyear. You know so I think we're hovering around twenty three twenty twopercent and dropping and one of the reasons one of the contributing factorsto that is it's not that there are necessarily less women or women areleaving the thech field, which is happening, but so we're men forwhatever reason. But it's because so many new tech jobs are coming on to themarketplace and we're just not got the numbers that are helping to fill themwhere we need to be, and so what I really believe is that we have amarketing problem. We are not great at selling technology and technology focusjobs to our girls to our middle school girls. That's where we're seeing thedrop out happening so instead of glass ceilings we're talking about glasswalls, I think that we do have a problem where a I call it thisprogrammer. You know this kind of culture of men who are coating away andyou know, and that's sort of like the face of what a lot of people believebeing in a technology job is about. When it's not you know. There's such Imean. Basically, if you don't know technology, you're kind of you'R kindof screwed in this day and age, but if you're interested in this field, it ishighly creative. You can really redefine and keep redefining yourselfas you become interested in different...

...paths. I know I have an other women andits is an also an opportunity to really be able to have work life balance. Youknow, ive have four kids myself. I feel like I've been able to really you know,hold my foot down on the gas well, also being able to balance work life as well,so lots and lots of problems just as far as I think, just attracting womenand girls into this amazing dynamic field in the first place in marketingto the not the next layer of immediate employment, but getting fartherupstream than that, so that there's awareness and passion for years priorto completely yeah and another problem is, is a lack of good role models. Youknow, you see the Lommasq, you see Apple Sea, you know, you see all theseamazing, quite frankly, white men in the field and you don't necessarily seethe voices of the incredible women who Arr just doing also wonderful work andare innovators and are pushing the field forward. So I think that's thepiece that we really need to start working on really important observation. That'sone of those things you know just going to the role models. It's one of thosethings that is easy just to overlook or whatever and thit's part of anunconscious bias. That's built is like these are the kinds of people that dothese things and get on these magazine covers, and you know, get the featurestories written and that we pay attention to and that we modelourselves after so really really good stuff there relationships. Sarah areour number one core value here at Bomba, so I always like to give you theopportunity for spending time with us and sharing so many great insights. Ilove to give you the opportunity to thank or mention someone who's had apositive impact on your life or your career, and just a mention to a companythat you feel has given you great customer experience, ohgreat greatgreat question, so I really want to think Peter Fader Myo author. So, firstof all, I am the first non Warton Faculty to be given the incredibledelightful role of being able to co off Tor a book with a Waron Faculty. So Ifeel, like you know, he's allowed me to be a trail blazer for other thought.Leaders to you know have their voices heard and he has just been anincredibly thoughtful and caring and supportive co Creator in all the thingsthat we've been working on together. So my hat stoft really to keep thatercompletely as far as a company that I really enjoyed interfacing with I'm,not necessarily the most stylish human being given thut how busy I am all thetime and I have really enjoyed stitchfix. They are a company. I juststarted to become a customer of earlier this year. They have UPE, my style game,and I also really enjoyed listening to. There was a podcast with the founder on how I built this about howshe really started from data and has built this company from spreadsheets onup based on data about our customers...

...and their preferences, and all that and and so far so good. I really reallylove the product, great example, and by the way, how I built this excellent,excellent podcast with so many great brands and companies on there andstitchfix. That's actually. The second mention on this podcast of stitchfixfor that blend of human touch and tech touch and blending those two reallywell to give you a truly personalized or even personal experience, so reallygood recommendation there. Sarah, how can someone connect with you withWharton Interactive Check out the book? If people enjoyed this, how can theykeep going? Oh well, first of all, thank you so much for having me thishas been such an enjoyable talk. Probably the best way is linked in ifyou're looking to connect with me, I'm also on twitter at Seray Toms, and thenI on our interactive, do Lorton DotupenoEdu website. There is an opportunity where you can reach out to us there aswell and we'd, love to hear you through any and all of those channels. Awesome.Sarah, thank you. So much for your time really appreciate what you're up to. Ihope that this is the foundation of a movement where people can look back,just as you look back on the agile manifesto and what that meant to you atthe time that folks can look back and say. I remember when really appreciateit so much I'll link up everything you mention there in the post that goes upat Bombomcom, sh podcast. I wish you a great afternoon and thank you again foryour time. Likewise. Thank you. This is brilliant, really appreciate it, clear communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance,so pick up the official book, Rehumanize Your Business, how personalvideos, accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in ordertoday at Bombamcom Boock, that's Bo, mb bombcom book thanks for listening tothe customer experience. PODCAST remember. The single most importantthing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for yourcustomers, continue. Learning the latest strategies and tactics bysubscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombomcompodcast.

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