The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

36. The Financial Side of CX: Which Customers Should You Invest In? w/ Sarah Toms


In any given company, not all customers are created equal. 

So, we need to know where, when, and in whom we should be investing. 

Well, on today’s episode of The Customer Experience podcast, we did something a little bit unique — we put customer experience into a financial context. Sarah Toms came on the show to talk about customer centricity: aligning your products and services to the needs of your customers to maximize their value to your firm. 

For the past six years, Sarah has served in IT Director roles at The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. She is currently the Executive Director of Wharton Interactive at The Wharton School and recently co-authored a book titled, “The Customer Centricity Playbook.”

What we talked about:

  • What is customer centricity
  • What are common myths and misperceptions about customer centricity
  • How to get an approximation of your LTV
  • What sparked Wharton Interactive

Resources we talked about:


Check out our podcast on Apple Podcasts/Apple Podcasts, or on Google Podcasts/Google Play, or Spotify and even on Stitcher.

Customer centricity is not about customer service. It's not about amazing customer experience, even it certainly collaborates with those ideas, it accentuates those ideas, but it really is about being more data driven and surrounding your strategy and your values around this idea of customer lifetime value. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. In any given company, for example yours, not all customers are created equal, so we need to know where, when an in whom we should be investing. Today's episode does something a little bit unique. Will put customer experience in a financial context. Our guest entered the tech field around the rise of the DOTCOM era and she found it a couple of software and tech companies at that time. For the past six and a half year she served in it director roles at the Warton School of the University of Pennsylvania. Warton of course, is consistently ranked as one of the top business schools in the world and in fact US News and World Report has it at number one in the two thousand and twenty rankings. Just over a year ago she became the cofounder and Executive Director of Wart and interactive, where they're on a mission to transform education with interactive platforms and simulations. So I hope we'll get into that. And she and I have something surprising in common. We've both coauthored and Amazon number one best seller in the customer relations category. Her book is called the customer centricity playbook. Sarah Tom's welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Is a real pleasure. Good I'm really excited to get into this customer centricity concept in the playbook in particular. But we'll start with the definition of customer experience. What comes to mind when I say that phrase to you? So for me, customer experience is really that last inch or that last layer that the customer is really able. You're surfacing all of your expertise, your goodies, your your secret sauce to your customers and it's really what the customers get to touch and experience. I hate to use the word experience in the definition, but it really is how you kind of bring it together and it's sort of when you think about like an artist putting together an oil painting and all those layers that go into really what that final esthetic might be. I love it. It's got that front of House component, but the way that you drew in the painting at the end there is like there's so much in there and a lot of it you can't see. It's the foundation for what comes over the top of it. So good, love it. I'm going to resident. Have you defined customer centralcity? I'm just going to read the definition in it's kind of breaks into three parts and then have you just kind of break...

...that down a little bit and give a little bit more context to it. So in Customer Centricity, your coauthor, Peter Fader, define customer centricity as a strategy that aligns the development and delivery of a company's products and services with the current and future needs of its highest valued customers in order to maximize these customers long term financial value to the firm. Kind of break down those elements a little bit. It's a strategy. There's alignment are current and future needs of highest value customers and then maximizing that over time. Yeah, so one of the biggest shifts with customer centricity compared to the more traditional approaches to not just marketing but also financial strategy and management, is really shifting your focus from looking in the rearview mirror, which is, how did we do last month? What are our profits? What were our customers doing in the last quarter, the last year, etc. So really looking at kind of the top line or bottom line. And what customer centricity does is it now? It makes you look through the front windshield. It's leveraging all of that amazing past data with respect to your customers and then thinking about how you can leverage those insights and draw ideas for how those customers are going to perform, those ones that stay with you, how future customers who come to you, who behave similarly to your existing customers, how they might re form, and then how do you align all of your tactics and functions and other strategic goals so that you're you're investing appropriately depending on the lifetime value of those individual customers? I would also say that, you know, I've been working with Pete now for six years we've developed an incredibly deep relationship with respect to customer centricity. You know, obviously coofering a book together, creating a really elaborate simulation together, and I would venture to guess that his definition from his first book to now has also changed, just like we all, you know, evolve over time. And he would also be saying that it's not just all about your high value customers, it's what you do with those, those mid and low tier as well. That's all part of the customer centric strategy just as much as what you're doing with your high value customers. Yeah, I love it. Again, for folks listening, the book is called the customer centricity playbook and there's a really great passage in there about this customer portfolio which which kind of speak specifically to that evolution of the definition that you just offered. There's that, you know, it's more than just the high value, it's everybody, and so how do we manage this together? So, before we go on, I would love for you to knock down because I'm sure this book, just in the title and in the phrase Customer Centricity, you know there are a lot of misconceptions, in myths around it. When the first book was released and I'm sure some of those were kind of cast on to this because of a similar title. What are some common myths and miss misconserned actions when people hear customer centricity? Yeah, and people actually say this all the time.

He wished that he had used a better term than customer centricity, because the problem is, as it sounds like, it's just putting the customer, the customer, at the center of everything you're doing, and customer centricity is really quite the opposite. Will not be opposite, but the first thing about customer centricity is really recognizing and celebrating Heterogeneity, recognizing that not every customer comes to you the same way, with the same Batin propensities. You know their propensity to stay, to spend, their love for you, their willingness to go through the gates of hell. You'll hear peace say that quite frequently. So customer centricity is not about customer service, it's not about amazing customer experience, even it collaborates with those ideas, it accentuates those ideas, but it really is about being more data driven and surrounding your your strategy and your values around this idea of customer lifetime value really starting with CELB and Hetergeneity in the first place. Love it for folks don't have a clear picture of their own CLV, or LTV, is it's sometimes referred to. Were talking about lifetime value of the customer. We're a couple easy ways to get going in getting a good approximation of your of your CLV. Absolutely it's as simple as beginning with understanding recency, frequency and monetary value, the old RFM. So if you can start with sort of understanding how often your customers are coming and spending with you, how much they're spending with you, and you know how when was the last time they came, this can really be the basis of the beginning of a model. What it is with respect to Clb, though, is you're then trying to see, okay, let's look into the future and can we start to predict whether those customers are going to continue spending at the same RFM based on sort of the predictors that other others like them have been doing? There's a bit of statistical analysis in there. I will also say that there are tremendous resources open source rest sources out there as well, and we do speak about this in the book. You know, this our model that Pete has. It's open source. There are also new companies coming up all the time that are getting better at doing clb calculations. Am I oversimplifying it to say that a recurring revenue model or a subscription model, it might be a little bit easier to do this, because you spoke to say, see a grocery or a bookstore, not Amazon, or even Amazon right like I go to Amazon a certain number of times. I haven't been there in a certain while. When am I going to come back? I mean that's kind of in that answer you just offered. You know, if someone is one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine a month recurring, how does that differ in terms of is it easier to do lifetime value in that scenario? Absolutely,... fact, if you want to get very specific about this, there are two different calculations use for subscription versus or nonsubscription models. So you're completely right there, Ethan. There is most certainly a problem. It's difficult to know, you know, is this customer who came and bought a cup of coffee from me yesterday going to come and buy that, you know, another cup of coffee from me tomorrow. It's much, much easier if you know that a customer who has just called up and said I want to cancel my service, you know that they have gone for sure, versus somebody who came and bought a pair of jeans from you last season. Are they going to come in and buy, you know, their spring stuff from you in the coming season? So it's most certainly more complex, but not impossible. Awesome. I want to go quickly through a few just kind of jump out ideas that I think will be interesting in triguing for people. I don't intend to summarize this book, which I'm sure is a summary of years of work, as you've already suggested, but I do want to get into a couple of these ideas, so I'll just throw out some words and just, you know, give me, give me your thoughts on that. Demographics and Personas as antiquated and flawed. Yes, so this was a fun chapter to write and our publisher and editor really loved it as well, because it was just ideas that they hadn't even thought of and their day to day work and ones that you know I I've been working now, you know, in the Technology Industry for over twenty five years. We do use personas for sure when we're developing software and APPS for our different types of customers and and it is certainly flawed. It's you know, it's a very blunt instrument for what you're trying to do, given how much data we have and how quickly that data shifts and changes. So a big part of your clv calculation is seeing what happens to those clbs for each cohort over time, because that shifting and changing. If you're working with a persona, that persona is less likely to shift and change in line with that data. The other problem we have as humans is we're really flawed, you know. We look at each other. There's a lot of unconscious buyas going on and we fill in the gaps, you know, and so we're saying, Oh, you know Debbie, housewife, or you know Susan Professional, and that's supposed to represent an entire classification of customer. And is that cust customer representation really accurate? You know, and I think if you were to go further and really explore who those customers are with the data itself, you're not going to come up with necessarily somebody who adheres to a certain skin color or age or demographic or or you know whatever. So if someone listening is operating based on us, let's say generic personas, they cut their primary customer base, in their prospect base, into like four stripes, right like you just offered susie homemaker or something. You know, what is one step that can be taken out of kind of generic blunt not particularly...

...useful because it's so overly generalized. What's a step that we can take out of that? Well, probably taking away the skin deep aspects of those individuals that you're trying to represent in the persona like that. That really is, you know, the mistake, because what happens when you start to be attractive to a whole new demographic and you're now you're actually cutting yourself short. So I would say step one, just generalize that if you need to use a persona called Persona A, and make sure that you're explicit with what persona a represents, like maybe there are characteristics around gender and age that do fall into that, that do happen to correlate to that persona, and that's fine, but don't necessarily then create this entire personality around it. That isn't going to shift and change with the data. So that would be my number one suggestion. Great there, and you've already kind of referred to this, but I love to talk about it more because it's such a big and important idea in it underpins the entire customer centricity approach, which is there is no such thing as, and I'm air quoting here, the customer. You already did a drive by, but I think it's worth doubling back on. Yeah, we hear this all the time and those are really put together. Are Two dirty words for me and Peter. We don't like to hear because, again, it's generalizing. It's basically saying we're going to come all this amazing customer data together and we're just going to come up with an average. And we know that when we take averages of anything that it represents nothing. So if you're taking an average of a clb which is really really high and one that's really really low, you're going to end up in the middle and you're not going to really be aligning your strategies and your efforts to either. So that's what we're talking about is getting way more look laser focused about what you're doing when you're investing in your different strategies. So the customer should not exist, and in fact Peter is worked with a number of industries and companies where they've made it, you know, actually having a swear jar set up so that anybody who starts to refer to their customer has to stick a dollar in that jar. Nice. There's so many ways that that could be used, because I'm sure would fill up pretty quickly, especially is as a company's trying to make this cultural and practical shift in the way that they look at, generically speaking, their database. Last one here on this kind of words response. I thought one of the best stories in the book for me to understand what customer centricity isn't isn't and some steps we can take going forward was that starbucks example. Right. So, you know, to go back to the myth and misconceptions like Oh, starbucks, of course their customer centric. They write names on cups and you know, they're very customer Orient did, but that's not what this is about. Historically they hadn't been customer centric, but they made a few strides. Can you talk a little bit about how they historically have not been customer centric and some of the stuff they're doing now that starts to... that mold a little bit. Yeah, I know, it's it's great time they actually with that question. So I just had a conversation with starbucks pre prior CMO and she said that when Pete's first book came out, where he really did talk about how not customer centric starbucks has, basically starbucks was like, crap, what do we do with this? And she said, I think we should pick up the phone and call him. He's right, let's start the conversation, and so that did start a number of conversations to help starbucks along the way with becoming more customer centric. So where they began was, yes, very friendly. You definitely feel like you know you're being well taken care of in their stores, but when you go, let's say, from one on one city block to another, there's absolutely it's sort of like you're shaking an Etra sketches you're walking that block. They have no concept that you are a customer and how valuable you are and what you like to purchase, etc. Etc. And then when they launched their loyalty program they actually made a mistake in the beginning where they did not hook that loyalty to value. It was actually to that that frequency element of the RFM that I was talking about. So how many are you purchasing from us? Not necessarily doing how much, and that was there. There, you know, big mistake that they did correct. There was a slight flipboard. Folks were a little bit upset and you probably remember when the if you're a starbucks purchaser where they did make that shift, and before that shift people would say, Oh, can you just bring these up as separate purchases and that would help with their loyalty. Now it really is tied to to their value, which is fantastic. Such a good example. This idea that you know your your most common store note actually knows you by name, they actually know your drink, they greet you by name and it's this very relationship oriented thing. But you know, three blocks away or if you're, you know, traveling for Work and you're another starbucks, they don't have any ideas. So just kind of closing that gap down such a good idea and it was such as an easy example to understand. I loved it. So it's not just a playbook, it's also a manifesto. Talk about the manifesto. What motivated that? Why create a manifesto around the movement? What are some of its primary elements? Yeah, so I talked about this and it really is one of my favorite memories of writing the book with Peter. One thing about co authoring a book, and I highly recommend it to anybody because it really is an opportunity to check your blind spots and to challenge one another on kind of what you just sort of assume is the way to think. So so many conversations that happened along the way as we were writing the book, and one of the most memorable was when we hit the last chapter, which we really wanted to end on this sort of call to Action High Note. You know, and we recognize that we hadn't yet delved into everything of as happened in the organization itself... order to become, you know, successful in their customer centric journey. So there is a culture element, there is a leadership and buy in and championship element, there's an approach to process change and, you know, making sure that you've got the support from me, even like a project manager or program manager standpoint, because it is change management and action. You know, when you're moving from product centricity to customer centricity. There has to be, you know, into the weeds. WHO's managing the pieces of data we need to chase and making sure that we've got a crm that can handle what we need, etc. Etc. There's a lot of work to be done and the first version of the chapter, Pete and I worked away at it and I remember sitting in his office and we kind of looked at each other and we were just like this stinks, it's awful, it's not what we wanted. It's terrible. We want this call to action. And so I have a very long commute home for Philadelphia and I was sitting there and thinking about it and thinking about it and I'm like, you know, what this reminds me of. Reminds me of when I started out in technology and just you know, we were so excited about what we you know, what was coming our way in the with respect to the opportunity that thecom was going to provide. And then in reality, what we were faced with when we were creating software and creating these a mazing, amazing Internet technologies was we to follow these lousy processes. And so we really have agile and the agile manifesto to thank for the big revolutionary changes that came to technology and then, you know, quite frankly, or now everywhere you know, they're pervasive. So I was thinking about that and I'm like, you know, I think a manifesto is what we need for customer centricity as well. I think this is the time where, you know, people have short distensions pans. We need something that is just easy to understand, easy to kind of sum up what we're talking about in for simple points. And if folks look at these points and adopt these points, then they'll be well on their way. And so I scribbled up a manifesto and kind of, you know, trapes my way across campus the next day and went into Pete's office and he's like yes, this is it. So we started to work on the manifesto together and we got to the point actually repeat texted me and he just test texted me a couple days later. So we're screwed up and I'm like, oh no, what did we do now? So I called him right away and he said, you know, I think this whole book should have been called the customer centricity manifesto. We should have started with a manifesto. Of course we were way too far along. We already had the cover of the book designed and everything else, but by that point. But what we really hope that this manifesto is that it will become the call to action. You know that we really envision for the final chapter. Awesome. I will drop the link to the website that has the manifesto and anyone can sign it. I recommend reading the book...

...first so that you are very clear on what you're adopting, although the phrases around them are very clear in and of themselves, and we've already talked about a number of them. For example, the first point in the manifesto is customer heterogeneity. Over the average customer or, for our earlier conversation, over the customer. Are quotes right. So so the language years really simple, but I'll drop that. If you visit bombombcom forward slash podcast, I write a blog post for all of these and you can go visit there. I'll drop links to a lot of the things that we talked about in this conversation. So if you're listening and you want to check out the manifesto, it will be easy to access. And of course it is a chapter in the book. So just you know, we did this a little bit earlier, but now that we have more context, you know, if someone's listening and they're thinking this sounds great. I just read the manifesto. I signed it. I believe in these things. I wish we were thinking and working more this way inside my organization. Where have you seen it be successful? Like, what are a few ways to get started for successful implementation? For example? Is this coming out of marketing, or is this coming out of Admin and finances? is coming out of a day to team? Is this coming out at like we're? Where have you seen the movement, let's call it this, this change management, is this new behavior, in this new posture and practice? Where have you seen it emerge from inside an organization for successful uptake, besides the obvious one that you need executive buy in at some point? Yeah, I mean this is by far my favorite question and in getting to interview so many great success stories like electronic arts and the La Dodgers for this book, a pattern really emerged to me, which was number one. You have to start small, you know, and all of the beginning, sort of those initial seeds for customer centricity all began with somebody having a gut instinct that something wasn't quite right. So a great example is EA, where they were spending just cross the line, twenty percent on marketing. Didn't matter what it was. Here's the money, go spend it, no idea if you know it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. And a few very, I mean not necessarily senior. These were junior data analysts who said, you know, I think we can just take a small amount of that and we can just do a very easy experiment and start to really understand how we're spending those marketing dollars. And that really became the nucleus of what drove it now drives their customer centric strategy. So first and former most, identify a small experiment that's measurable, that isn't going to, you know, lead to big issues if it fails. You know you want to fail fast and fail quickly and fail small. Number two, you need the data. So making sure that you've got support from either somebody on your you know, your data analytics team. I even had a conversation with a friend of mine who create you know, she's a small pottery. She makes her own pottery here in...

...the Westchester Pennsylvania area, and she just read my book. She's like, I have so many questions. I'm like, okay, let's let's hear them, Nancy. And her big thing was she has no data, you know, and so we just very, very simply, we had, you know, a thirty minute conversation about what she could start to map out, even in Excel, as a beginning point, because she basically treats all her customers the same. They're all highly valuable and she must give them all just as much time and just as much of her as and so, even though that's, you know, maybe a simplistic example, that can really be applied into any business. So I would say starting small and making sure you've got that data to both test your hypotheses and help to then grow from or incredibly important good recommendations. Really appreciate it. And you know, I'm sure people are in various stages of this. When I think about where we are at bombomb you know we're doing some of these things well, some of them not as well. We're not necessarily have a lot of good data and we use it, but we're not necessarily using it exactly in this way. That's that's prescribed. It's it's so I can imagine folks listening are all ranges from pottery to, you know, fortune, one thousand companies that do have a full and proper data analytics function and it's just a matter of getting them coordinated in aligned. Let's switch gears a little bit. You're the cofounder and executive director of Warton Interactive. What was one of the sparks like, because you'd been with Wharton for five years at the time, what was one of the sparks to really get this going? What kind of led to the cofounding of interactive? So many things. So yeah, so I was brought on to the wharton school to really work with one of the things I'm very, very proud of at Wharton is our culture of interactive teaching and learning. So there is not really a single class I can think of where that it's this passive experience where it's sort of stage on the stage. Our professors really, I think, are you know, there many reasons for why they are the the best in the world, but one is that they really give our students a chance to roll up their slaves and experience the theory that's being taught in the classrooms and some of the best ways to bring that theory to life and see it in practice is to create, sometimes simple, sometimes very elaborate, simulations and games that the students can interact with where they can see the tradeoffs with decisionmaking and they can really practice in a safe environment. It's sort of like a flight simulator for business, if you will. So the team I was running before at the Warton school is called the learning lab and the Al West Junior learning lab, and we that team has been around since one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine and had created a number of really, you know, best in class business simulations over the course of the time. And while I was there I started to notice, you know, being sort of this outsider to the higher education space, I started to notice the number of sort of impediments and...

...things that sort of didn't sit right with me from a technologists standpoint. Number one is just the complexity of the languages that you need and bringing together the expertise to actually create these these simulations is very, very hard and takes a long, long time and cost a lot of money. And so what it also does is it starts to create a US in them. So it's one thing being the Warton school or the Harvard Business School, etc. We have the resources, but as I start to go around and talk to, you know, an other conferences and such another business schools, I started to realize that there really was like, you know, I was kind of talking to dead air, like it was like that's really nice area, you can do that at Warton. We just don't have, you know, the resources to be able to create something similarly, even though we have faculty who have tons of great ideas and would love to be doing this. So expense, expertise, all these other things that sort of, you know, it's not a democratic approach to education, which also doesn't sit well with me. And also the University of Pennsylvania was founded by a quaker. We really do believe in these, you know, these quaker values. So as I started to work, I developed an amazing relationship with Professor Ether Molik, who has written books on gaming. He brings in a lot of things, from VR to other Games into his classrooms and we started to work on a number of different platforms, which meant that we were able to create elaborate, hyper realistic experiential learning that we could do actually quite and expensively and this, you know, this experience that we incubated and these things that we started to create at the learning lab, we realize that we really had something that we could, you know, expand and start to offer to the world, and so that's what we've been doing. We decided to keep the learning lab focused on Warton Faculty and what they're doing in Warton classes. We didn't want to kind of, you know, take over any of that and make sure that that, you know, remains preserved. And Morton Interactive has been created to develop these platforms that we can share, quite literally, with any educator all of the world. We're really, really excited about it. Awesome. That was one I follow up questions is, who is the customer of Warton Interactive? You know, is it it other educational institutions? Are are companies taking this on? You know, as companies, are, you know, investing more in development as a way to a have a better team, but be also probably increased for tension of the best employees? Like who is subscribing to say the customer centricity simularation in some of these other tools that you're providing? Yes, for sure. So really our customers, learners learners and educators, and I would say I mean cut the customers in tristity simulation is a great case and point where this has become a catalyst for so many organizations. You know, we played it with major social media organizations, to banks, to you name it.

Are using a customers inristy simulation to really help as sort of bringing together cross functional teams, and that was the point I've got to make earlier with your question. Is another element you need in order to be successful as making sure that you have cross functional teams sitting at the table, and that's what we do with the simulation. We make sure that we set up these very diverse teams that are all working together through this day long experience and by the end we're really talking about what specifically are the small experiments you want to run after this experience today. What impediments do you foresee? What are the internal stakeholders and the external stakeholders that you're going to need to reach out to and start to bring along to make sure that this journey is successful? So absolutely our goal is to bring this sort of Warton approach to interactive learning, quite literally, to the world. Great before we wrap, I would love to know a little bit more on yours, about your experience. You're involved with the women in text summit. Women in tech is something that we talked about here at bomb and have done some, you know, smaller scale events around it because it's such an important thing. But talk about your passion for women in Tach, like what is the problem? What are some solutions and what has been your experience over the past twenty five years? Oh, yeah, I mean just to try to sum up a question like that. Yeah, so, can you give me the summary of the last twenty five years? Absolutely, no problem. So, I mean here's one of the problem. Like, just looking statistically, we are the the number of women in tech is dropping every single year, you know. So I think we're hovering around twenty three, twenty two percent and dropping. And one of the reasons, one of the contributing factors to that is it's not that there are necessarily less women or women are leaving the tech field, which is happening, but so we're men for whatever reason. But it's because so many new tech jobs are coming on to the market place and we're just not got the numbers that are helping to fill them where we need to be. And so what I really believe is that we have a marketing problem. We are not great at selling technology and technology focused jobs to our girls, to our middle school girls. That's where we're seeing the dropout happening. So instead of glass ceilings, we're talking about glass walls. I think that we do have a problem where a I call it this Programmar, you know, this kind of culture of men who are coding away and you know, and that's sort of like the face of what a lot of people believe being in a technology job is about, when it's not. You know, there's such I mean basically, if you don't know technology, you're kind of your kind of screwed in this day and age. But if you're interested in this field, it is highly creative. It you can really redefine and keep redefining yourself as you become interested in different paths.

I know I have an other women and it's a it's also an opportunity to really be able to have work life balanced. You know, I have four kids myself. I feel like I've been able to really, you know, hold my foot down on the gas while also being able to balance work life as well. So lots and lots of problems, just as far as I think, just attracting women and girls into this amazing, dynamic field in the first place and marketing to the nothing next layer of immediate employment, but getting farther upstream than that so that there's awareness and passion for years prior to completely yeah and are another problem is is a lack of good role models. You know, you see the Lawnmusk, you see apples, see you know, you see all these amazing, quite frankly, white men in the field and you don't necessarily see the voices of the incredible women who are just doing also wonderful work and are innovators and are pushing the field forward. So I think that's the piece that we really need to start working on. Really important observation. That's one of those things, you know, just going to the role models, that's one of those things that is easy just to overlook or whatever in this part of an unconscious bias that's built is like these are the kinds of people that do these things and get on these magazine covers and, you know, get the feature stories written and that we pay attention to and that we model ourselves after. So really, really good stuff. They're relationships, Sarah, are our number one core value here at Bomba. So I always like to give you the opportunity for spending time with us and sharing so many great insights. I love to give you the opportunity to thank or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or your career and just to mention to a company that you feel has given you great customer experience. Oh, great, great, great question. So I really want to thank Peter Fader, my co author. So first of all, I am the first non wartant faculty to be given the incredible delightful role of being able to coauthor a book with a Warton Faculty. So I feel like, you know, he's allowed me to be a trailblazer for other thought leaders to, you know, have their voices heard, and he has just been an incredibly thoughtful and caring and supportive co Creator in all the things that we've been working on together. So my hats off really to keep fader completely. As far as a company that I really enjoyed interfacing with, I'm not necessarily the most stylish human being, given the how busy I am all the time, and I have really enjoyed stitch fix they are a company I just started to become a customer of earlier this year. They have up to my style game and I also really enjoyed listening to those. A podcast with the founder on how I built this, about how she really started from data and has built this company from spreadsheets on up, based on data about our customers and their preferences and all...

...that, and and so far, so good. I really really love the product. Great example and, by the way, how I built this excellent, excellent podcast with so many great brands and companies on there, and stitch fix. That's actually the second mention on this podcast of stitch fix for that blend of human touch and tech touch and blending those two really well to give you a truly personalized or even personal experience. So really good recommendation there, Sarah. How can someone connect with you with Wharton Interactive check out the book. If people enjoyed this, how can they keep going? Oh well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. This has been such an enjoyable talk. Probably the best way is linkedin. If you're looking to connect with me. I'm also on twitter at Sarah e Tom's and then I on our interactive dot Warton dot you pend Ed website. There is an opportunity where you can reach out to a there as well, and we'd love to hear you through any and all of those channels. Awesome, Sarah. Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate what you're up to. I hope that this is the foundation of a movement where people can look back, just as you look back on the agile manifesto and what that meant to you at the time, that folks can look back and say, I remember when. Really appreciate it so much. I'll link up everything you mentioned there in the Post that goes up at bombombcom slash podcast. I wish you a great afternoon and thank you again for your time. Likewise, thank you. This is brilliant. Really appreciate it. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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