The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

42. 5 Ways Internal Alignment Can Elevate Your Customer Experience w/ Sangram Vajre


With regard to customer experience, alignment within our organizations and across our teams is one of the biggest opportunities and challenges in front of us.

We’ll get into - and a lot more - that with today’s guest, Sangram Vajre.

Sangram is the co-founder and Chief Evangelist for Terminus, the #1 rated account-based marketing (ABM) execution platform and leader of the ABM movement.

During the episode, we talked about how internal alignment can have a huge impact on your customer experience. Sangram gave some super practical tips on how to go about aligning your teams so that everyone is focused on the same endgoal:

  • Have Smaller, More Focused Meetings
  • Change your metrics and KPI’s
  • Encourage interaction between teams
  • Own and Celebrate the Results
  • Implement Account Based Marketing

Checkout these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

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We just started talking about this idealflag. Hey, let's think about it as one team, right. Thisis not a marketing problem or sales problem or a customer success problem. Thisis a team problem. The single most important thing you can do today isto create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales,marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectationsin a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast.Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. Now, with regard to customer experience, alignment within our organizations andacross our teams is one of the biggest opportunities and biggest challenges in front ofus. We'll get into that and a lot more with today's guest, whois kind enough to have me both as a guest and a host on hisown podcast, flip my funnel, which I highly recommend. He's the cofounderand chief Evangelistic Terminus, the number one rated account based Marketing Execution Platform,and the leader of the ABM movement. Sang Grumbager, welcome to the customerexperience podcast. It done a lot of man, I remember when you initiallystarted talking about doing a podcast, and now that it's doing so well,it's pretty awesome to be on it. Yeah, I mean it's funny whenI think about it. You know, I look at my guest listen Ithink, wait, I haven't had San Group on the show yet. It'sso welcome for the first time. I'm of hopefully many the I'm glad wecan finally get this done. You know, the best things in because we engageso much in and these as you talked about flip my funnel. Wehave gone through, I think, about four hundred episodes or something now andI constantly think, I think ninety nine percent of the people that have thatwe have interviewed on the podcast are my friends and you know, it almostfeels like I'm still not like maybe five or six or someone who somebody recommended, like or in your case, when you did it, you had gotKawasaki on it, and so there are a few that I don't really havea fullblown relationship but but almost every one of them either I had relationship withor have built relationships after it. So selfishly, I feel it's one ofthe best things from a friendship perspective that I personally I have done in thelast few years. Yeah's awesome. I find the same joy in and itdoesn't surprise me either. I mean just with with your personality, in theway you approach your work and your life and your business. It doesn't surpriseme at all that you're making long lasting relationships out of these, these podcastconversations. We're going to start here where we always start, which is yourthoughts around customer experience. When I say Sang Room, what is customer experience? May Do you like? What thoughts come to mind? I think themost immediate thought really for me is that what what your customers say about it, about you, is your customer experience. We might say anything and everything aboutus, like hey, we are the top dog of this or withthe Neider in this or whatever, but if your customers are not saying thator not feeling it, then I think we've completely missed it. So whateveryour customers say is what your customer experience is so good. I am workingon some episodes now that will be, of course, released before this conversation, and two of them back to back with with Mike Red Board from hubspot and Dan Gingis, who's a CX and social media expert. They bothtalked about what you just offered there, which is, I'll say, intheir words, the customers reality is the reality, right. There's no sensedenying it or creating a counter argument or whatever. It's whatever they think andfeel and say about you is the truth, period, and so, you know, we need to engage in it so that we can affect that reality. But there's, you know, your observation there. That one it's thefeelings, and the two it's it's their experience. Is what matters, right. And you know what's ethern interesting? I was talking to our sales teamthis morning and we were talking about Oh, they're all excited about this new featurethat we're about to launch at Germanus, and I'm like, almost like Icouldn't help myself to say that,...

Hey, look, we're never goingto have a silver bullet that solves all of our customers pinpoint. Think aboutsales, for they're still building sales for so, like you know, it'snever going to be that we have a perfect product. So, in away, stop, let's stop obsessing over the next feature for our customers.Let's start obsessing over the problem that you're trying to solve and just hone inon that every single day. The conversation is not about, hey, youjust got this new you future do you want to take a look at it? It's the wrong conversation to have. It's like, what is your problem? What are you trying to solve? How can we help? And thenmaybe that feature is applicable to them but don't need with it. And Ifind myself constantly telling this to or sharing that everybody. And I'm curious withyour experience and all the interviews that you've been doing, is that a commontheme? Yeah, absolutely, and really, you know, my guest turn onflip my funnel, where you were kind enough to allow me to hosta variety conversations there, started me down that road and it's I know it'sthe way that you view the work that you do in the best outcomes youcan produce as a chief evangelist, which is how do I raise up theproblem and not focus on the product? Right? And so that's the higherlevel concept. And now what you're doing is operating here at the microcosm ofnew feature release and customers. Really let's take a step back from that.What features are we building and why? Right? How much of the ofthe CS feedback in the sales feedback, you know the the I would guess, for most SASS companies, your sales people, in your CS people havethe most direct customer communication. And so you know, how do you getthat feedback from customers about? Not what products, sorry, what features theywish worked better or work differently or whatever, but what are they actually trying tosolve? What needs do they really have it and what are we developingand talking about? And so salescs, marketing all need to be aligned.Product ev need to be aligned. We don't want to be talking about featuresand benefits until we maybe get to that at selection stage where the real detailsstart to matter, before they commit to your organization, you can start movingforward toward, you know, impact and solutions, language that you've used foryears and that I really, really like, and that's what I'd love to beat the hardest conversation because it's kind of the heart of the broader customerexperience conversation here on the show. Is One team. I've seen you useit as a Hashtag. I don't remember if it was in your First BookAccount Base Marketing, but it's definitely in the more recent release that we'll talkabout after this part of the conversation. ABM IS BTB. Talk a littlebit about one team. What's the origin story? How did that come upinside? Did it start with terminus or is this something you carry with youfrom before? Well, it definitely started more at terminus, but the originalstory, or the probably scarce that led to that, started away before right. So I'll I think you know this. It's all quickly share the story.I was at when I was a running marketing at Parlot and at salesforts to that positions. I remember just hitting every record that month. Myteam was excited, we were jumping up and down, we're high fiving,awesome and I was like feeling really proud of myself and it was really thenumber of leaves was really the goal at that time for me and my teamand we hit it and we crushed it and the Waddy next morning my headof sales comes in and he said, dude, that was awesome with youand your team did. Can you generate a thousand more leagues? And Ithis month and to me I just sank in my seat when I was likeliterally like buried underneath like fifty foot like below the pyramid or something like that. Just felt the weight on me like wow, I'm just a coin operatedlead machine over here and we all think that there is this UN like crazyamount of lead just floating in the space and because need to go and plugthem out one at a time and just put it in this show it inthis funnel. And nobody's talking about how do we increase pipeline conversion? Nobody'stalking about what what can we do to upself cross cell and in my way, if the way I phrase that is...

...observed our customers to the new productsand stuff that we have, services that we have. So I just feltthat as a really big dagger in the ability to be a good marketer andthat led that was almost the genesis of terminus, because terminus is based onthat philosophy of like less than one percent of the leads running to customers.That got to be a better way and no matter how big your market is, there are a finite number of opportunities to this idea that like every monthwill just tack on another one hundred, five hundred Azero leads like that doesn'tgo forever. Now, and that's the reason why it is less than onepercent, because or period of time you just alien and you're really good customerbased by pushing them to download something, pushing them to go to the Webin. Are Pushing them and it's now you're giving the same people back. Andthen you have the other problem where sales things, that market does not givethem good amount of leads, right, like they don't good quality leads.Will all these are the origin is the same things, like we're treating everybodythe same and we got to change. So this all leads to this idea. One day when we were actually being doing an off site and there wasa challenge, in a conflict that was happening within sales, marketing and customersuccess around certain things, and I remember we just started talking about this ideaof like hey, let's let's think about it as one team. Right,this is not a marketing problem or sales problem or a customer success problem,this is a team problem. Anybody any ready? Any customer out there?I guarantee they would never say, oh, bom bombs or terminus marketing sock.They were going to say bombomb or terminus suck right, like we ifthere's something bad. But when when I don't get any Delta related when I'mflying and I'm having a bad experience, let's say, and if I tweetabout Delta, I'm just going to say Delta Sucks. Right, I'm notdoing so andso person on that team on so ands of flights up now.So all we have to own that. We all are to blame for anythingthat goes wrong and we have to own it. So there's a couple ofthings that come to mind. One is this idea of extreme ownership. Thisis who book written by this US Navcl Jacko. Fantastic thing to think about. Like we all have to own this experience. And then so the conflictresulted into US talking about is that how do we better act as one team? So that led to literally one of our conference room is called one team, where we have the major board meetings and stuff. Our sales and marketingmeetings are called one team now because we don't want to talk about sales meetingon marketing meeting and then ultimately leading to this idea of no, it's actuallya good market team and it's not marketing and sales, which I always thoughtit was. It's actually marketing, sales and customer success. So all thatjust led to that. This just a better way to handle the problem oncewe know that we all are on the hook as opposed to just one team. Love it and and so I think that makes sense. And again,that'stood as I led this off, because I believe in it wholeheartedly. Thisis the greatest opportunity in the greatest challenge we have. What does it meanthen, like kind of functionally? Right, so we still have to go backand have a sales meeting and go back and have a marketing meeting,go back and have a CS meeting. You know as well as you can, because I know that you've got one foot in and one foot out aschief evangelist. You know you're you're in the office, probably less than youwere before. You're in some operations, but a lot less than before.So, as well as you can't talk a little bit about what this lookslike functionally. Is there? Are there more cross functional meetings, or doyou now have, in the marketing meeting, in addition to the whole marketing teamor some aspect of the marketing team, sales representative and a customer success representative? Like how would you know if someone's listening to this and say,yeah, you know, we've been struggling with this, kicking it around.This sounds awesome. Like from a practical standpoint, what does this look like? You know it or maybe, based on other organizations, you've been rightwhen you're at part out and the sales force to acquisition, like what areyou doing differently today? Talk about it from a functional, practical standpoint?Yeah, that's a great question. Even... of the things is that Ithink words matter, if you believe the power of words and the words wesay, you know, the world getting into existence, all that stuff,at the end of the day, with the words we use really really matter, and I started to pay really close attention to that. So things likenot calling it a sales or marketing meeting. It actually matters. It is arevenue meeting or pipeline meeting. So good into that with that idea thatin this meeting we're to talk about x. So we're starting to install having abroader big bang meeting. We're trying to have smaller, very strategic,Quick Action Adams, smaller team. So I love what they gave hard recentlystarted to talk about is that don't make decisions back committee, and I thinkthat's exactly he's exactly right now. So we have now small teams of podswhere Tori, who runs to manage, he works with directly with the asDr Leaders and they come up with campaigns and run it. We don't needto make an announcement around it, if you don't need to have it allhands around it, we just go do it like it's your job. Andthe other part, I think if people want to essentially force this, it'sgoing to be really hard. But if you change the metrics, how theirmeasure success on, you'll automatically see all these changes happening. So they thehard way to do it is tell everybody what to do. The easy wayto do is just change the matter against see everybody do it right. Sowe just have no lead measurement right. We don't look at number of leadsas our goal. The Marketing Team and bonuses, everything is compensated on thepipeline the revenue that the company generates. So automatically that's they have to dostrategically as well. But like marketing and sales, they sit next to eachother. So we're not trying to have two different floors. The leaders areall next to each other, constantly talking, constantly meeting. So I think wecould do a couple of things internally. If you're really new and started toget into it, the two recommendations that would half for everybody is getyour KP as aligned. Those are a lying teams, automatically get a lineand, as much as possible, get them physically closer to each other.I didn't really think like, Hey, this is remote. Everybody talks aboutpeople can work from anywhere. True, but you can never get over thispersonal relationship and connection that you have with the other person. So if you'renot in like in the office and if you're marketing sales teams are different timezones and stuff, that's okay. Get on zoom and have a video call, not email over email. Email like for that person should never be used. It's really let's talk about this thing. And maybe the final one, apartfrom kpas in just physical proximity, I would say is just talk aboutthe results you're getting. One of the best things that happen in the endthe team of story when he started some of the campigns, our sales teams. They would just come up and say every week they will report on itand say, Hey, here's what we were, here's what in Bor kidis whereho are up here in bring port. And so now everybody has trusted andthem that hey, they're testing the trying than working together. It's they'reall jumping on eag you know, all and making sure things are happening.So creating the momentum and trust I think, really move the needle. So goodfor anyone listening that this always happens to me as a podcast listener.I like I want to like take notes. So either hit that thirty second backa few times, because there were a few really good takeaways there andyou did a nice job summarizing them as well and then adding on that bonusidea. In addition, you can visit Bombombcom podcast. We do summaries andoverviews of every single one of these episodes and so if there's one you wantto go deeper on, you can always go visit Bombombcom podcast. We breakout little frameworks that smart folks like you offer saying Rom so thank you forthat. It also makes me even think about just going all the way backto the beginning, your first idea there. It makes me think about not justthese cross functional meetings but almost every meeting we have where, you know, we do daily stand ups. We just did a Monday. Monday morningwe do a stand up within the marketing team and we just kind of doa quick once around on what went well last week, highlights of the week, success is what's our number one thing...

...each of us is focused on forthis week, and then any concerns or road blocks or anything that anyone needshelp with, and we just use a quick once around. And what doesn'treally have a name, and I think if we were more intentional about namingit that it would have even more kind of power behind it, even though, any I take that back that that is all so still a cross functionalmeeting. We bring in folks from from design, we bring in folks fromCs and I don't think we have sales in the room anyway. Really goodstuff there and in the power of naming it, naming hast power. Likeyou think about category building and I think lot oftimes we think that was big. You know, that's a big thing. So name. That is good.Man. I feel I spend so much time, honestly, on namingthings and writing stuff today, then I ever did before, and I feellike it's way more important today than ever before because everybody's getting a whole bunchof Shit in their inbox all day long. So what emails are to send?I really, really pay attention to what subject lines I use in theinternally emails. I actually think about that and I never thought about it,and it's not because like I'm trying to one up any other. I'm justlike, I want to be intentional about it and if I send something,I want people to pay attention to it and if I set up a meeting, it has to have a impact result. As a matter of fact, I'vestopped recurring meetings. Are completely the meetings that I want to be partof, or always short, like twenty five minutes or like that, twentyfive or fifteen minutes, and then in those meetings, all these meetings areno more than a month or month and a half long. There's no recurringmeeting right now. And the reason I started doing that is because I startedto notice that this snack that we get into it like, okay, thisis a standard thing and we're going to go go into I'm like, no, it's a project. We're going to talk about projects. So I've gonethe reverse way. I've gone from a lot of recurring meetings that kept thingsgoing and it was more of like I needed to know what's going on,or my leader needed to know what's going on, to these meetings of likewe didn't get shit done. So we're going to have a project plan,we're going to have clear owners whoever owns that meeting, and then they theyare the owner of it. This is not like we can talk in acoffee table if you want to talk about how the day was. This isabout really enforcing ourselves and pulling us together and being intentional about every minute ofthis conversation. I'm going to conversation is done, go have a coffee withsomebody. That's totally cool, but this is so important. So the namingof it, the timing of it, the the idea of it and thetime from of it. I'm starting to pay way more attention to those things, just from productivity perspective and getting things done perspective than ever before. Meand my calendar just opened up. I'm so excited about this. How didyou know? It literally is a letting go kind of thing, right,like giving up for letting go thing, some bad back is like you haveto let go. I have to let go of these ongoing product meetings,ongoing marketing meetings. Only I like nobody needs me, and if there's somebodyneeds it, there is an action atom for me. Somebody's going to callme and they know my number or whatever. I need to be part of thingsthat actually going to get stopped done and I don't need anything more thana month or two, because after that it's a phase to let's call themeeting phase, to phase three. Face for this new energy. There's newexcitement, there's maybe a new set of people that need to be some ofthe people don't need to be the meetings. We all know who those are.Sometimes it's us. So we need to talk moving it. They're oundyeah, so good, and it's your point of like letting go. Itcan be really difficult because we think will people need me? I need tobe needed. I'm the kind of personality that I need to be needed muteif it feels really good. You know, I don't. Don't always need it, but it feels good right. And so this idea of like they'regoing to be fine without me. You know, yea or or you know, we did four meetings over the last three and a half weeks and nowthey're often running and we'll reconnect next quarter and see how see what they learnedin that window of you know, we got this thing off the ground.It's flying and we'll check back in on it in a little bit. Let'sgo back to language, the importance of language. You've mentioned kind of categorycreation. Obviously you and your team have...

...been critical and in defining and evolvingABM, account based marketing. For anyone listening who might not be familiar withABM, just give a quick drive by on on account based marketing, andyou already have a little bit. But be really explicit. Yeah, sure, so abm do, anybody doesn't know, is really focused on the account thatyou can serve the best period. So if you are a financial servicescompany today targeting fortune five hundred, guess what, you only have five hundredpotential accounts to target. And within that, if there are fifty fortune five hundredfinancial services and that's at fifty, and if you're spending money, time, energy resource says on writing blogs and getting people on that are not fromthese fifty accounts, you're wasting your company's time, money, energy and resources. So I contass marketing. I think sudden got and on one of theone of our interviews said it best. We all believe, I want tobelieve, that we live in this this this micro war, right, butit was our macro world. But we really are in a micro world.Of We, like we, every one of us, have really small segmentsthat we need to go after. And your small segment maybe really big forsomebody else, but it's still small. You're still if unless you're selling Nikeshoes, you should know exactly who you're selling to. If not, goback to the drawing board. And that's really what ABM is and and hasbeen phenomenal to just see it grow in the last four years. It's awesome. So let's talk a little bit about the book and then I just instantlyhad like three questions of that just, you know, theoretical things. Butso you wrote the original book account based marketing, what like four or fiveyears ago? Yeah, it will. I started writing it when we whenwe started the company about two thousand and fifteen and we published it in twothousand and sixteen with Voley's in twenty, like a kind of market for dummies. And you know now getting the second book has been a really interesting experience. Yeah, so what was so the new book is ABM. Is BTob Talk a little bit about the title and what led up to it.My publisher was was really upset. He's like, I've never seen somebody havea title that has two accorams in three words. Like, you know,nobody's going to ever by by this book. I'm like, exactly, this bookis not for everybody. I'm not trying to be a new oktime bestseller. I'm I just want there are five, six thousand people companies outthere that we believe are we can serve the best as a company and theindustry as overall. I want them to have this book and if they don'tknow what I'm talking about, they I don't want to waste money on shipping. So in general, this book is also a form of ABM. Specifically, is like not worrying about trying to be the same for everybody or beingcute for everybody, being very specific about your target audience. So the firstbook, when I wrote eat, and I think my whole philosophy at thattime was that ADM is about creating a better mouse trap. A better acquisitionchannel and as the years past on, I realize that companies are doing betterjob of pipeline velocity. As a matter of fact, I've lately started totalk about that. Most companies don't have a demand problem, which people likewhat they talking about I have. We need leads, we need demand.No, you don't, because you you whatever you have is fine. Ifyou can increase your pipeline by two to three percent, you don't need thatmuch to man on the top. You need to create more conversion rates,but people don't think about or talk about that, and that's what sales andmarketing, one team, really make matters. And then last year I saw thistremendous move, and one of the stories I write about in the bookis from Thomson Writers. They had about ninety five percent in wind rate ontheir extension deals. Now, I know people don't believe when I say thatbecause that's unheard of. But Julie, and she has been on the podcast, I made sure the legal team reviewed it and made sure it's in thebook. I even made sure that she is with me so people not it'snot a fictitious character in the last conference because it is such an incredibly amazingstory, but the only reasons she was... to do that was because youfocused on those two fifty eight counts for expanding deals in it. And now, obviously she's getting promoted and and they have bigger goals and whatnot. Allthat to say that led to this big when I was literally in this room, I was writing all the names of all the different things that we couldhave for this book, I called in my sales team, Stewart and Ryan, and they walked in and I showed them the wholest of thing. Iliterally would like wrap people and bringing like a tell me what you think aboutthis stuff, and they're saying, man, this is just bet this is justbetter marketing sales. I'm like you guys are so right, and that'swhen the title abm is bb was born from to salespeople who are on thefront lines, who think this is better marketing and sales. So I wantedto be the first one to write a book on ABM and I want tobe the first one to be on the record to say Abim is bigger thannow just ABM and Maracq position. It's actually across the board go to marketstrategy. Love it. In it is Inj your point of it being anexercise in ABM itself. If you look at a title and says ABM ISB Tob and he say guy, I don't know what that means. Thatbooks not for you and everyone should be okay with that. So you talk. I'm going to get into a couple of practical things. So so,so folks get some takeaway here. Besides picking up the book. I dida video review the book. It's just outstanding. I won't I won't makeyou blush on the podcast for those of you're watching video clips. So itwas. It's just excellent. I think you're absolutely right. This is thecurrent best practice organized in one convenient package that's beautiful. By the way.It feels great in the hand, as part of my review as well justas a physical product. It feels great, but it's loaded with great information andstories. So, for those of us who are still have one footin the can you increase leads by twenty two percent this month? We havethe leads forwardcast and it's based on how we did last year plus x percentgrowth. And you know we're going to we're going to keep some of theseconversion rates along held steady in our forecasting and projections right. So people havethe step in the old world who also have a footneat in the new worldthat you've drawn out. You have a nice like evolution chart from, youknow, essentially, just to dumb it down, old fashioned marketing to today'sstate of affairs with with full and proper ABM. You know, what area few key things you see with, you know, a company like ours, that is we're doing some of both. There's a lot of emotional and cognitiveinvestment in the new world and and some progress there, but there's alsostill some legacy stuff and frankly we're straddling the line to I mean some ofour go to market is still a little bit of a Betica strategy because wewe are a volume play, unlike some other like your company. You don'tneed forty fivezero customers. You probably take them if they were the right onesin time like when the whole world is looks difficult today. But it's funnyyou say that, but I think most companies business would break if they havemore customers to handle them. They and I know people say, oh well, it's a good problem to have. No, because the tension issues,you have gross margin issues. I mean you just don't understand business. Thenif people said, I know, that's our problem to solved, no,it there needs to be a proper investment on both sides of fit. SoI'm not advocating for less growth, I'm at advocating for efficient growth, andI think that's what valuation of companies go up when you have efficient growth,not just crazy growth at the top and a really bad retention challenge. SoI mean you kind of sum it all that stuff etn to and ended toreally your bigger, bigger point over here is that I think, if thatI've never said that, hey, you should stop Lee Generation. In asense, you should need to stop regeneration that doesn't drive revenue. Is reallythe ultimate goal. And the way you do that is is, if youare an organization where your sale estem is not falling on your leads, yougot a problem that you have to solve for regardless of you do abim ornot. Now, if you are doing abm, I think what it canreally help you do is you you can literally and the word that I wouldgive everybody power of words is I'm going... just do an experiment in mycompany. I'm just going to pick two sales people that are but I'm buddieswith, and say that, all right, Julie and Sally. I'm going towork with Julian Sally and say, both of you, I'm going tocome up with what are your top twenty accounts that you want to close thismonth or at the squre because your job depends on it, and they're goingto say, all right, here's a list. They know what those fortyaccounts are. You don't even have to run a report on that. Andthen you said, all right, I'm going to figure out what to dowith this with the all right, you look at those twenty accounts and theysay, Oh, I'll these twenty plus, twenty, forty accounts. Ten ofthem are in Boston. Let's just do a dinner in Boston and thenfly you guys, and then have a conversation with peers and our customers.There are some customers there. Do that right, or say, Oh,fifteen of them are in industrial engineering or something like that. All right,let just take our existing ebook and turn that into industrial engineering oriented ebooks sothat they can send this to them very specifically, so that they feel likethe value and we care about them and all that stuff. You start lookingat all these different elements, which essentially means you don't go and say I'mgoing to run three blogs a month, a week, I'm going to dotwo Webin ors a month, I'm going to do one white paper. Youthrow that out and come back to the salesman saying these are your forty dealsthat you want to close and we're going to find a way from all thesemany of options which one makes sense and have those plays done for you.You do that for thirty days. I promise you that they will go,assuming they have success, and I have no doubt reason to believe they won't, because I've seen this work so many times. They will go and tellthe entire sales team like, look what happened. This is why I crossedmy quote of this mother this quarter. Guess what, because you ran thatexperiment. Now the sales leader is going to come and say, in sortof asking for leaves, he or she will going to come ask to youfor saying can you do that for the rest of my team? Now yougot a conversation of the executive team going that says, how do we givemarketing more budget? To do that right. So you change the conversation. AndI don't know who said this, but if you're okay not taking creditfor it and letting others, which your sales team, take credit for it, you can do anything, anything possible. So I challenge everybody to think aboutthis in a different ways, sort of saying this is a marketing initiative. No, work with your sales team, nobody even has to have to knowthat you're doing this. Go and work with you to sales team andstart working on the deals that matter to them. Everything else changes automatically thenext thirty days. So good, which ties back to where you open,which is this is all about aligning with the revenue goal, which is Imean that is the point. Like what customers do you want? How canwe organize around that? Who Do we actually serve best, and how canwe best reach those people in an efficient manner? It reminds me of it'sjust general. I don't know if I reign into it when I was workingon an NBA or somewhere else, but the research around one of the biggestchallenges is defining the problem. I think so many people are looking for whereto apply solutions, but they haven't done the homework of defining the problem,and so that's what you were made making me think of. Here's the problemis, I have these twenty accounts in I need to move them forward atat you know, summer, at the stage, summer, at the stage, summer, at this stage, and need move all twenty of these dealsforward. And then marketing rolls in and says, okay, we will helpyou move those forward. And so we're going to divide, we're going towe're going to define activities and execute activities based around this very specific we've definedthe problem. The problem is there's not en a velocity right here is opposedto you know, I've been in teams and I've even done it myself,where we're just doing things that we assigned ourselves and hoping that sales finds valuein it. Yeah, it's just and it's super, super powerful. Imean I was going to ask you about the power of the alignment when wewere talking about one team, but it should be very apparent that it's allaround efficiency of revenue and how to best serve the customer. I got acouple more things I want to ask about. One of them is book related andI think you'll enjoy this this part of the conversation. New Story isan organization that all of the proceeds of...

...a BM ISB Tob are going tosupport. How to give you the opportunity to talk about who is new story, what are they doing and why did you commit this way? What's yourmotivation to support the organization through the book? And thanks even for because I thinkthat problem. You're right, I'll totally enjoy the next five done.You know seconds that you give me on this thing because it's it's very closeto my heart. So I meant Brett, who's a CEO and go founder offnew story. They're based in Atlanta and San Francisco and it was reallyinteresting. I'm never felt me drawn to one type of charity or the other. If somebody asked me for money, I'll do it, other do itfrom a church. I like it just that. But beyond that I neverunderstood or valid and always felt like, oh my goodness, what am Idoing? I'm talking about marketing, and then people over here are get youknow, grading like charity, water and stuff like even they're doing so manyamazing things. I almost felt like whatever I'm doing is absolutely worthless, likeit. They has no value, like you know whatsoever. We make softwarethat I can't even touch. So you know, it's val like valueless sometimes, and it does feel like that sometimes. It just just how it is,even though you know obviously there are people their jobs and their businesses runand life's are supported from it, but sometimes you just want to touch ittangibly, right, and when I met bread I felt like his story ofthe fact that when he was out there in a couple of like in Mexicoand some other places, he just saw that people didn't have homes and webote we take for granted over here, and and he just had this dreamof building communities of houses, not one house but a community. And whatwas really interesting is they're doing it using d printer, so they can literallybuild hundred houses in hundred days. And something that they want as a ycombinator, so to say, nonprofit that has d printing houses. They haveone, one kind of built in Austin as a prototype and now they're goingto build communities all over the place. Like Tony Robbins, a lot ofother people have been putting money into this. A lot of the tech founders thatI know are already investors in them or giving the money to do awhole bunch of things. So I love the fact that it has technology andnot just any other like raise money kind of thing. And the second partof it is there a hundred percent new to charity water kind of business model, which is all the money that they we are raising for them, willgo to this cause and their operating cost is funded by farmers like me andothers who are just giving the operational cost off it right. So I lovethe part that the hundred percent of the money that will go from the proceedsor the reviews for the book will go directly to them and that will godirectly to the people who are in need as opposed to like all the logisticalcause that comes with it. So anyhow, I'm just I felt that, man, look, this is not going to be a New York time bestseller book and stuff. I wish it could in some ways, but we'revery focus and targeted. If nothing else, I would a create awareness for themin the tech community and that's really my hope and goal with that.It's awesome. I love the I love the multiple layers there and actually setsup kind of the last thing that I wanted to get to you before astandard close that I think you'll also enjoy, just because, knowing the kind ofpurse you are, I think you'll enjoy the closing questions, which isthe community element, right, and so it's not just we're going to pickthis family and build this house or we're going to take this plot of landand put a house on it, which is also awesome and equally valid inits own way, but this idea of building community, in the value ofcommunity. And so, you know, one of the things that you're wellknownfor saying is without a community or just a commodity. So talk about buildthat bridge from you know, the communities that new story are building and thecommunities around thoughts and ideas, in practices as regard ABM, terminus, etc. Talk a little bit about community versus commodity. And in a marketplace typeof way. Yeah, in a human way. Yeah. Well, soI literally just finished reading Tony, who... the CEO of Zappos, hisbook on delivering happiness and he attributed all the success and it's like twenty yearsnow people there. It's a long time. You think about it. Twenty YearsRight and at the end of ten years is when Zappos was acquired byAmazon. So and he continues to be the CEO Zappos and now it's abouttwenty years. So really good story to think about. This clearly fundamentals.They're not somebody's hopping around. And in his book it attributes the entire successof his come his growth of the company to three things, which is brandand very clearly defined as best customer service, so something that I think your audiencewould absolutely love. Number two was culture and it defined that as deliveringwow, both externally to your customers, would also internally to your employees.So I felt like that was really strong. And number three, he said,well, you got to have brand, you got have culture, but ultimatelyyou also need to create an employee education and development platform internally as anorganization, everybody in organization should be growing, both personally and professionally. And Iwas blown away, like he didn't talk about product, he didn't talkabout his service, he didn't talk to any of these like these are thethree things and they call it the BCP grand culture and he calls the pipelinefor the Internal Training and Development Program and all that to me he was justtrying to build a very strong internal community and community with their customers that isbased on the promise that we're going to deliver. Wow, right, andand I felt like man, that is really strong. So if one ofthe greatest companies out there is not focused on product as much as their focuson this and not saying that you got a shitty product, you're us thatthose are table stakes. I think we need to start building this higher narrativeand really focusing not just saying but doing it, and I think people wouldstart making making a note of it and this whole idea of without a community, you're a commodity. I think that is my oneliner for my five yearsof experience as a startup guy is if we didn't do that, it wouldbe really hard for us to grow at the rate we're growing. But inspite of that, everybody else can copy everything that we do. There's nota single feature we're going to develop in the next five ten years that aregoing to be so groundbreaking that nobody else in the work and copy everybodying copy. What they can copy is the community aspect of it, which is whyI love the fact that when new story and others like when people or whatyou're trying to do with this podcast, that are all run a build acommunity, because people want to be part of a community, not a product, but a community, and that that to me just feels, at thehuman level, really important. Yeah, I agree completely and I think you'vegot so much going on. They're just tied up in in the company,the Folkus just just the concepts of ABM and what that means for building relationshipswith customers so that you can be very intentional and specific, not worrying abouteveryone, worrying about specific people and and how you can serve and up servethose folks. Building it internally, investing in your people, which even thatlayer as you're going through Tony's shays teachings there. It made me think aboutwhat you were saying just fifteen or twenty minutes ago about the hard path isto go tell everyone what to do. The easy path to say here's aproblem, and so if you have a bunch of smart, committed people andyou just point them at the right things and kind of again take some time, especially maybe at the executive level, to make sure people are aligned inthe right directions and going toward the right things. The rest of us justgoing to take care of itself and it's more enjoyable for everyone involved. It'sbetter for the customer, it's better for the employee and it's better for thefor the health of the business in general too. So it's awesome, Ithink people hearing that and saying that. I think it'll become more and moretrue. I think from a hardcore go to market standpoint it's absolutely right,because the other side that we didn't talk about is the commodity and it's likeI ought whenever I talk about that Commodity Element. You know, I wework with a lot of people who fear disintermediation, the idea that they're jobsare going to be replaced. You know,...

...not truck drivers, although they're certainlythreatened by self driving trucks, but you know people that are trying tofigure out. A lot of sales people who are trying to figure out,will people just buy this directly? Will I be cut out of this processby a tool or an APP or something else? And you know, we'reteaching them how to reinject the human element into the process through video, tobring it to life, to build some emotional connection to answer questions more clearlyand more quickly than someone could get a solution by maybe reading a eighteen paragraphsupport article or something like that. And so it's this. It's this commodityside of it where a lot of things will become commoditized, but these thingsthat people have emotional investments in it through personal relationship and other kind of everythingthat community entails is the antidote to the commodification of our businesses. Is sogood. I love what you're doing. Do you have anything on the now? Man? Thank you. So you summarize that one? Be Good.There's a lot. Yeah, so. So the way we always wrap uphere, relationships are our number one core value here a bomb amban on thepodcast. And so I always like to give you the chance to think ormention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and to givea shout out to a company that you think is delivering great experiences for youas a customer. All right, so the person who's having a lot ofimpact recently, more than anything, has been my son. I think I'min learning a lout from him. Oh, being present and just being in themoment and doing stuff that doesn't really be part of the normal rule andstuff. So I love like one day he just you know, walked outwith like a you know, tennis shoes and like terminus socks the like,like football socks and, you know, basketball shorts and a baseball TSHIRT andand I'm like, Dude, what game are we going to play? Andhe said anything is possible, and I think that just made me realize that, oh my goodness, we just are so tumbel focused on our own livesthat sometimes we forget that anything is possible. We just need to think about itdifferently. so He's been really inspiring and and I'm actually really looking tolearn from him every day now because of that like childlike thing that we gotto lose as we grow. So how old is he is nine? Awesome. Yes, it's there's a lot of good stuff there. And then Ithink as a company, I mean there's there are several really good companies.I feel like. Obviously drift is doing really good around a lot of justbeing human, around a lot of the interactions and stuff, and I knowDavid cancel and David Gerard really well. I think another company that's really doingwell that is actually not talked about as much as GTO. So GTWO isa customer reviews platform which, again from a customer experienced perspective, there's nobetter place to go and look for what is the truth, and I lookat that reviews of people all like almost are regular basis to just see whatare people saying about it and what they have really done in terms of buildinga community and stuff. They're like thousands and thousands of reviews and they havejust opened up this wall between products and and and the customers to know whatexactly is behind the scenes so people can't hide behind like, well, letme show you a powerpoint deg that shows what we don't have, but looksreally good on powerpoint. It actually let me just see what the product andother people are using it say. So I feel like they're doing a reallygood job of customer experience and marketing as well. It's awesome and they're andthey're raising the importance of customer experience by making the actual customers experience more transparentand and giving a you know, social as. Obviously, in general it'srise empowered customers at a broad level, but in a focused way. Someonelike g tow that's that's to the point of account based marketing. They're nottrying to review every product in service. It's a very focused, in organizedplatform and it gives gives buyers such transparency. So it raises up the the demandson us as service providers to do our best job. I like readingarch to crowd reviews as well, or G to. Sorry, did theydrop crowd? Yeah, did what? They didn't have cowd. They havedotcom or somebody like or do to. Yeah, they had you to crowdride. Remember. Now it's all G docom. Yeah, cool, sayningroom. This was as fun as I...

...expected, and I had very highexpectations. I know folks are going to get a lot out of it.There's so many ways to connect with you. I feel like you're your man aboutthe Internet, man about the industry, but in a targeted way. Iffolks enjoyed this and they wanted to follow up, besides picking up acopy of a BM is b Tob, what else might people do to connectwith you? I'm in Linkedin. Honestly, it's really interesting you to say manydifferent ways. I'm actually a nowhere to be found other than linkedin andlike email. I just have focused on it and I'm not on Snapchat,I'm not. I'm hardy on twitter, I'm not on whatever is then youthink, or day talk or whatever. I'm literally on Linkedin, so it'sactually very easy to find me now. Awesome. So look up saying roombadgery on Linkedin. You will not regret it. Tons of great content anda growing community saying room. This has been a pleasure. I appreciate yourtime so much and I wish you continued success. And we are man thankseven for everything you do. Man Clear Communication, Human Connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you'resending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, sopick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate salesand improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That'sbomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember,the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver abetter experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribingright now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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