The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

42. 5 Ways Internal Alignment Can Elevate Your Customer Experience w/ Sangram Vajre


With regard to customer experience, alignment within our organizations and across our teams is one of the biggest opportunities and challenges in front of us.

We’ll get into - and a lot more - that with today’s guest, Sangram Vajre.

Sangram is the co-founder and Chief Evangelist for Terminus, the #1 rated account-based marketing (ABM) execution platform and leader of the ABM movement.

During the episode, we talked about how internal alignment can have a huge impact on your customer experience. Sangram gave some super practical tips on how to go about aligning your teams so that everyone is focused on the same endgoal:

  • Have Smaller, More Focused Meetings
  • Change your metrics and KPI’s
  • Encourage interaction between teams
  • Own and Celebrate the Results
  • Implement Account Based Marketing

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We just started talking about this ideal flag. Hey, let's think about it as one team, right. This is not a marketing problem or sales problem or a customer success problem. This is a team problem. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. Now, with regard to customer experience, alignment within our organizations and across our teams is one of the biggest opportunities and biggest challenges in front of us. We'll get into that and a lot more with today's guest, who is kind enough to have me both as a guest and a host on his own podcast, flip my funnel, which I highly recommend. He's the cofounder and chief Evangelistic Terminus, the number one rated account based Marketing Execution Platform, and the leader of the ABM movement. Sang Grumbager, welcome to the customer experience podcast. It done a lot of man, I remember when you initially started talking about doing a podcast, and now that it's doing so well, it's pretty awesome to be on it. Yeah, I mean it's funny when I think about it. You know, I look at my guest listen I think, wait, I haven't had San Group on the show yet. It's so welcome for the first time. I'm of hopefully many the I'm glad we can finally get this done. You know, the best things in because we engage so much in and these as you talked about flip my funnel. We have gone through, I think, about four hundred episodes or something now and I constantly think, I think ninety nine percent of the people that have that we have interviewed on the podcast are my friends and you know, it almost feels like I'm still not like maybe five or six or someone who somebody recommended, like or in your case, when you did it, you had got Kawasaki on it, and so there are a few that I don't really have a fullblown relationship but but almost every one of them either I had relationship with or have built relationships after it. So selfishly, I feel it's one of the best things from a friendship perspective that I personally I have done in the last few years. Yeah's awesome. I find the same joy in and it doesn't surprise me either. I mean just with with your personality, in the way you approach your work and your life and your business. It doesn't surprise me at all that you're making long lasting relationships out of these, these podcast conversations. We're going to start here where we always start, which is your thoughts around customer experience. When I say Sang Room, what is customer experience? May Do you like? What thoughts come to mind? I think the most immediate thought really for me is that what what your customers say about it, about you, is your customer experience. We might say anything and everything about us, like hey, we are the top dog of this or with the Neider in this or whatever, but if your customers are not saying that or not feeling it, then I think we've completely missed it. So whatever your customers say is what your customer experience is so good. I am working on some episodes now that will be, of course, released before this conversation, and two of them back to back with with Mike Red Board from hub spot and Dan Gingis, who's a CX and social media expert. They both talked about what you just offered there, which is, I'll say, in their words, the customers reality is the reality, right. There's no sense denying it or creating a counter argument or whatever. It's whatever they think and feel and say about you is the truth, period, and so, you know, we need to engage in it so that we can affect that reality. But there's, you know, your observation there. That one it's the feelings, and the two it's it's their experience. Is what matters, right. And you know what's ethern interesting? I was talking to our sales team this morning and we were talking about Oh, they're all excited about this new feature that we're about to launch at Germanus, and I'm like, almost like I couldn't help myself to say that,...

Hey, look, we're never going to have a silver bullet that solves all of our customers pinpoint. Think about sales, for they're still building sales for so, like you know, it's never going to be that we have a perfect product. So, in a way, stop, let's stop obsessing over the next feature for our customers. Let's start obsessing over the problem that you're trying to solve and just hone in on that every single day. The conversation is not about, hey, you just got this new you future do you want to take a look at it? It's the wrong conversation to have. It's like, what is your problem? What are you trying to solve? How can we help? And then maybe that feature is applicable to them but don't need with it. And I find myself constantly telling this to or sharing that everybody. And I'm curious with your experience and all the interviews that you've been doing, is that a common theme? Yeah, absolutely, and really, you know, my guest turn on flip my funnel, where you were kind enough to allow me to host a variety conversations there, started me down that road and it's I know it's the way that you view the work that you do in the best outcomes you can produce as a chief evangelist, which is how do I raise up the problem and not focus on the product? Right? And so that's the higher level concept. And now what you're doing is operating here at the microcosm of new feature release and customers. Really let's take a step back from that. What features are we building and why? Right? How much of the of the CS feedback in the sales feedback, you know the the I would guess, for most SASS companies, your sales people, in your CS people have the most direct customer communication. And so you know, how do you get that feedback from customers about? Not what products, sorry, what features they wish worked better or work differently or whatever, but what are they actually trying to solve? What needs do they really have it and what are we developing and talking about? And so salescs, marketing all need to be aligned. Product ev need to be aligned. We don't want to be talking about features and benefits until we maybe get to that at selection stage where the real details start to matter, before they commit to your organization, you can start moving forward toward, you know, impact and solutions, language that you've used for years and that I really, really like, and that's what I'd love to be at the hardest conversation because it's kind of the heart of the broader customer experience conversation here on the show. Is One team. I've seen you use it as a Hashtag. I don't remember if it was in your First Book Account Base Marketing, but it's definitely in the more recent release that we'll talk about after this part of the conversation. ABM IS BTB. Talk a little bit about one team. What's the origin story? How did that come up inside? Did it start with terminus or is this something you carry with you from before? Well, it definitely started more at terminus, but the original story, or the probably scarce that led to that, started away before right. So I'll I think you know this. It's all quickly share the story. I was at when I was a running marketing at Parlot and at sales forts to that positions. I remember just hitting every record that month. My team was excited, we were jumping up and down, we're high fiving, awesome and I was like feeling really proud of myself and it was really the number of leaves was really the goal at that time for me and my team and we hit it and we crushed it and the Waddy next morning my head of sales comes in and he said, dude, that was awesome with you and your team did. Can you generate a thousand more leagues? And I this month and to me I just sank in my seat when I was like literally like buried underneath like fifty foot like below the pyramid or something like that. Just felt the weight on me like wow, I'm just a coin operated lead machine over here and we all think that there is this UN like crazy amount of lead just floating in the space and because need to go and plug them out one at a time and just put it in this show it in this funnel. And nobody's talking about how do we increase pipeline conversion? Nobody's talking about what what can we do to upself cross cell and in my way, if the way I phrase that is...

...observed our customers to the new products and stuff that we have, services that we have. So I just felt that as a really big dagger in the ability to be a good marketer and that led that was almost the genesis of terminus, because terminus is based on that philosophy of like less than one percent of the leads running to customers. That got to be a better way and no matter how big your market is, there are a finite number of opportunities to this idea that like every month will just tack on another one hundred, five hundred Azero leads like that doesn't go forever. Now, and that's the reason why it is less than one percent, because or period of time you just alien and you're really good customer based by pushing them to download something, pushing them to go to the Webin. Are Pushing them and it's now you're giving the same people back. And then you have the other problem where sales things, that market does not give them good amount of leads, right, like they don't good quality leads. Will all these are the origin is the same things, like we're treating everybody the same and we got to change. So this all leads to this idea. One day when we were actually being doing an off site and there was a challenge, in a conflict that was happening within sales, marketing and customer success around certain things, and I remember we just started talking about this idea of like hey, let's let's think about it as one team. Right, this is not a marketing problem or sales problem or a customer success problem, this is a team problem. Anybody any ready? Any customer out there? I guarantee they would never say, oh, bom bombs or terminus marketing sock. They were going to say bombomb or terminus suck right, like we if there's something bad. But when when I don't get any Delta related when I'm flying and I'm having a bad experience, let's say, and if I tweet about Delta, I'm just going to say Delta Sucks. Right, I'm not doing so andso person on that team on so ands of flights up now. So all we have to own that. We all are to blame for anything that goes wrong and we have to own it. So there's a couple of things that come to mind. One is this idea of extreme ownership. This is who book written by this US Navcl Jacko. Fantastic thing to think about. Like we all have to own this experience. And then so the conflict resulted into US talking about is that how do we better act as one team? So that led to literally one of our conference room is called one team, where we have the major board meetings and stuff. Our sales and marketing meetings are called one team now because we don't want to talk about sales meeting on marketing meeting and then ultimately leading to this idea of no, it's actually a good market team and it's not marketing and sales, which I always thought it was. It's actually marketing, sales and customer success. So all that just led to that. This just a better way to handle the problem once we know that we all are on the hook as opposed to just one team. Love it and and so I think that makes sense. And again, that'stood as I led this off, because I believe in it wholeheartedly. This is the greatest opportunity in the greatest challenge we have. What does it mean then, like kind of functionally? Right, so we still have to go back and have a sales meeting and go back and have a marketing meeting, go back and have a CS meeting. You know as well as you can, because I know that you've got one foot in and one foot out as chief evangelist. You know you're you're in the office, probably less than you were before. You're in some operations, but a lot less than before. So, as well as you can't talk a little bit about what this looks like functionally. Is there? Are there more cross functional meetings, or do you now have, in the marketing meeting, in addition to the whole marketing team or some aspect of the marketing team, sales representative and a customer success representative? Like how would you know if someone's listening to this and say, yeah, you know, we've been struggling with this, kicking it around. This sounds awesome. Like from a practical standpoint, what does this look like? You know it or maybe, based on other organizations, you've been right when you're at part out and the sales force to acquisition, like what are you doing differently today? Talk about it from a functional, practical standpoint? Yeah, that's a great question. Even... of the things is that I think words matter, if you believe the power of words and the words we say, you know, the world getting into existence, all that stuff, at the end of the day, with the words we use really really matter, and I started to pay really close attention to that. So things like not calling it a sales or marketing meeting. It actually matters. It is a revenue meeting or pipeline meeting. So good into that with that idea that in this meeting we're to talk about x. So we're starting to install having a broader big bang meeting. We're trying to have smaller, very strategic, Quick Action Adams, smaller team. So I love what they gave hard recently started to talk about is that don't make decisions back committee, and I think that's exactly he's exactly right now. So we have now small teams of pods where Tori, who runs to manage, he works with directly with the as Dr Leaders and they come up with campaigns and run it. We don't need to make an announcement around it, if you don't need to have it all hands around it, we just go do it like it's your job. And the other part, I think if people want to essentially force this, it's going to be really hard. But if you change the metrics, how their measure success on, you'll automatically see all these changes happening. So they the hard way to do it is tell everybody what to do. The easy way to do is just change the matter against see everybody do it right. So we just have no lead measurement right. We don't look at number of leads as our goal. The Marketing Team and bonuses, everything is compensated on the pipeline the revenue that the company generates. So automatically that's they have to do strategically as well. But like marketing and sales, they sit next to each other. So we're not trying to have two different floors. The leaders are all next to each other, constantly talking, constantly meeting. So I think we could do a couple of things internally. If you're really new and started to get into it, the two recommendations that would half for everybody is get your KP as aligned. Those are a lying teams, automatically get a line and, as much as possible, get them physically closer to each other. I didn't really think like, Hey, this is remote. Everybody talks about people can work from anywhere. True, but you can never get over this personal relationship and connection that you have with the other person. So if you're not in like in the office and if you're marketing sales teams are different time zones and stuff, that's okay. Get on zoom and have a video call, not email over email. Email like for that person should never be used. It's really let's talk about this thing. And maybe the final one, apart from kpas in just physical proximity, I would say is just talk about the results you're getting. One of the best things that happen in the end the team of story when he started some of the campigns, our sales teams. They would just come up and say every week they will report on it and say, Hey, here's what we were, here's what in Bor kid is whereho are up here in bring port. And so now everybody has trusted and them that hey, they're testing the trying than working together. It's they're all jumping on eag you know, all and making sure things are happening. So creating the momentum and trust I think, really move the needle. So good for anyone listening that this always happens to me as a podcast listener. I like I want to like take notes. So either hit that thirty second back a few times, because there were a few really good takeaways there and you did a nice job summarizing them as well and then adding on that bonus idea. In addition, you can visit Bombombcom podcast. We do summaries and overviews of every single one of these episodes and so if there's one you want to go deeper on, you can always go visit Bombombcom podcast. We break out little frameworks that smart folks like you offer saying Rom so thank you for that. It also makes me even think about just going all the way back to the beginning, your first idea there. It makes me think about not just these cross functional meetings but almost every meeting we have where, you know, we do daily stand ups. We just did a Monday. Monday morning we do a stand up within the marketing team and we just kind of do a quick once around on what went well last week, highlights of the week, success is what's our number one thing...

...each of us is focused on for this week, and then any concerns or road blocks or anything that anyone needs help with, and we just use a quick once around. And what doesn't really have a name, and I think if we were more intentional about naming it that it would have even more kind of power behind it, even though, any I take that back that that is all so still a cross functional meeting. We bring in folks from from design, we bring in folks from Cs and I don't think we have sales in the room anyway. Really good stuff there and in the power of naming it, naming hast power. Like you think about category building and I think lot oftimes we think that was big. You know, that's a big thing. So name. That is good. Man. I feel I spend so much time, honestly, on naming things and writing stuff today, then I ever did before, and I feel like it's way more important today than ever before because everybody's getting a whole bunch of Shit in their inbox all day long. So what emails are to send? I really, really pay attention to what subject lines I use in the internally emails. I actually think about that and I never thought about it, and it's not because like I'm trying to one up any other. I'm just like, I want to be intentional about it and if I send something, I want people to pay attention to it and if I set up a meeting, it has to have a impact result. As a matter of fact, I've stopped recurring meetings. Are completely the meetings that I want to be part of, or always short, like twenty five minutes or like that, twenty five or fifteen minutes, and then in those meetings, all these meetings are no more than a month or month and a half long. There's no recurring meeting right now. And the reason I started doing that is because I started to notice that this snack that we get into it like, okay, this is a standard thing and we're going to go go into I'm like, no, it's a project. We're going to talk about projects. So I've gone the reverse way. I've gone from a lot of recurring meetings that kept things going and it was more of like I needed to know what's going on, or my leader needed to know what's going on, to these meetings of like we didn't get shit done. So we're going to have a project plan, we're going to have clear owners whoever owns that meeting, and then they they are the owner of it. This is not like we can talk in a coffee table if you want to talk about how the day was. This is about really enforcing ourselves and pulling us together and being intentional about every minute of this conversation. I'm going to conversation is done, go have a coffee with somebody. That's totally cool, but this is so important. So the naming of it, the timing of it, the the idea of it and the time from of it. I'm starting to pay way more attention to those things, just from productivity perspective and getting things done perspective than ever before. Me and my calendar just opened up. I'm so excited about this. How did you know? It literally is a letting go kind of thing, right, like giving up for letting go thing, some bad back is like you have to let go. I have to let go of these ongoing product meetings, ongoing marketing meetings. Only I like nobody needs me, and if there's somebody needs it, there is an action atom for me. Somebody's going to call me and they know my number or whatever. I need to be part of things that actually going to get stopped done and I don't need anything more than a month or two, because after that it's a phase to let's call the meeting phase, to phase three. Face for this new energy. There's new excitement, there's maybe a new set of people that need to be some of the people don't need to be the meetings. We all know who those are. Sometimes it's us. So we need to talk moving it. They're ound yeah, so good, and it's your point of like letting go. It can be really difficult because we think will people need me? I need to be needed. I'm the kind of personality that I need to be needed mute if it feels really good. You know, I don't. Don't always need it, but it feels good right. And so this idea of like they're going to be fine without me. You know, yea or or you know, we did four meetings over the last three and a half weeks and now they're often running and we'll reconnect next quarter and see how see what they learned in that window of you know, we got this thing off the ground. It's flying and we'll check back in on it in a little bit. Let's go back to language, the importance of language. You've mentioned kind of category creation. Obviously you and your team have...

...been critical and in defining and evolving ABM, account based marketing. For anyone listening who might not be familiar with ABM, just give a quick drive by on on account based marketing, and you already have a little bit. But be really explicit. Yeah, sure, so abm do, anybody doesn't know, is really focused on the account that you can serve the best period. So if you are a financial services company today targeting fortune five hundred, guess what, you only have five hundred potential accounts to target. And within that, if there are fifty fortune five hundred financial services and that's at fifty, and if you're spending money, time, energy resource says on writing blogs and getting people on that are not from these fifty accounts, you're wasting your company's time, money, energy and resources. So I contass marketing. I think sudden got and on one of the one of our interviews said it best. We all believe, I want to believe, that we live in this this this micro war, right, but it was our macro world. But we really are in a micro world. Of We, like we, every one of us, have really small segments that we need to go after. And your small segment maybe really big for somebody else, but it's still small. You're still if unless you're selling Nike shoes, you should know exactly who you're selling to. If not, go back to the drawing board. And that's really what ABM is and and has been phenomenal to just see it grow in the last four years. It's awesome. So let's talk a little bit about the book and then I just instantly had like three questions of that just, you know, theoretical things. But so you wrote the original book account based marketing, what like four or five years ago? Yeah, it will. I started writing it when we when we started the company about two thousand and fifteen and we published it in two thousand and sixteen with Voley's in twenty, like a kind of market for dummies. And you know now getting the second book has been a really interesting experience. Yeah, so what was so the new book is ABM. Is B Tob Talk a little bit about the title and what led up to it. My publisher was was really upset. He's like, I've never seen somebody have a title that has two accorams in three words. Like, you know, nobody's going to ever by by this book. I'm like, exactly, this book is not for everybody. I'm not trying to be a new oktime best seller. I'm I just want there are five, six thousand people companies out there that we believe are we can serve the best as a company and the industry as overall. I want them to have this book and if they don't know what I'm talking about, they I don't want to waste money on shipping. So in general, this book is also a form of ABM. Specifically, is like not worrying about trying to be the same for everybody or being cute for everybody, being very specific about your target audience. So the first book, when I wrote eat, and I think my whole philosophy at that time was that ADM is about creating a better mouse trap. A better acquisition channel and as the years past on, I realize that companies are doing better job of pipeline velocity. As a matter of fact, I've lately started to talk about that. Most companies don't have a demand problem, which people like what they talking about I have. We need leads, we need demand. No, you don't, because you you whatever you have is fine. If you can increase your pipeline by two to three percent, you don't need that much to man on the top. You need to create more conversion rates, but people don't think about or talk about that, and that's what sales and marketing, one team, really make matters. And then last year I saw this tremendous move, and one of the stories I write about in the book is from Thomson Writers. They had about ninety five percent in wind rate on their extension deals. Now, I know people don't believe when I say that because that's unheard of. But Julie, and she has been on the podcast, I made sure the legal team reviewed it and made sure it's in the book. I even made sure that she is with me so people not it's not a fictitious character in the last conference because it is such an incredibly amazing story, but the only reasons she was... to do that was because you focused on those two fifty eight counts for expanding deals in it. And now, obviously she's getting promoted and and they have bigger goals and whatnot. All that to say that led to this big when I was literally in this room, I was writing all the names of all the different things that we could have for this book, I called in my sales team, Stewart and Ryan, and they walked in and I showed them the wholest of thing. I literally would like wrap people and bringing like a tell me what you think about this stuff, and they're saying, man, this is just bet this is just better marketing sales. I'm like you guys are so right, and that's when the title abm is bb was born from to salespeople who are on the front lines, who think this is better marketing and sales. So I wanted to be the first one to write a book on ABM and I want to be the first one to be on the record to say Abim is bigger than now just ABM and Maracq position. It's actually across the board go to market strategy. Love it. In it is Inj your point of it being an exercise in ABM itself. If you look at a title and says ABM IS B Tob and he say guy, I don't know what that means. That books not for you and everyone should be okay with that. So you talk. I'm going to get into a couple of practical things. So so, so folks get some takeaway here. Besides picking up the book. I did a video review the book. It's just outstanding. I won't I won't make you blush on the podcast for those of you're watching video clips. So it was. It's just excellent. I think you're absolutely right. This is the current best practice organized in one convenient package that's beautiful. By the way. It feels great in the hand, as part of my review as well just as a physical product. It feels great, but it's loaded with great information and stories. So, for those of us who are still have one foot in the can you increase leads by twenty two percent this month? We have the leads forwardcast and it's based on how we did last year plus x percent growth. And you know we're going to we're going to keep some of these conversion rates along held steady in our forecasting and projections right. So people have the step in the old world who also have a footneat in the new world that you've drawn out. You have a nice like evolution chart from, you know, essentially, just to dumb it down, old fashioned marketing to today's state of affairs with with full and proper ABM. You know, what are a few key things you see with, you know, a company like ours, that is we're doing some of both. There's a lot of emotional and cognitive investment in the new world and and some progress there, but there's also still some legacy stuff and frankly we're straddling the line to I mean some of our go to market is still a little bit of a Betica strategy because we we are a volume play, unlike some other like your company. You don't need forty fivezero customers. You probably take them if they were the right ones in time like when the whole world is looks difficult today. But it's funny you say that, but I think most companies business would break if they have more customers to handle them. They and I know people say, oh well, it's a good problem to have. No, because the tension issues, you have gross margin issues. I mean you just don't understand business. Then if people said, I know, that's our problem to solved, no, it there needs to be a proper investment on both sides of fit. So I'm not advocating for less growth, I'm at advocating for efficient growth, and I think that's what valuation of companies go up when you have efficient growth, not just crazy growth at the top and a really bad retention challenge. So I mean you kind of sum it all that stuff etn to and ended to really your bigger, bigger point over here is that I think, if that I've never said that, hey, you should stop Lee Generation. In a sense, you should need to stop regeneration that doesn't drive revenue. Is really the ultimate goal. And the way you do that is is, if you are an organization where your sale estem is not falling on your leads, you got a problem that you have to solve for regardless of you do abim or not. Now, if you are doing abm, I think what it can really help you do is you you can literally and the word that I would give everybody power of words is I'm going... just do an experiment in my company. I'm just going to pick two sales people that are but I'm buddies with, and say that, all right, Julie and Sally. I'm going to work with Julian Sally and say, both of you, I'm going to come up with what are your top twenty accounts that you want to close this month or at the squre because your job depends on it, and they're going to say, all right, here's a list. They know what those forty accounts are. You don't even have to run a report on that. And then you said, all right, I'm going to figure out what to do with this with the all right, you look at those twenty accounts and they say, Oh, I'll these twenty plus, twenty, forty accounts. Ten of them are in Boston. Let's just do a dinner in Boston and then fly you guys, and then have a conversation with peers and our customers. There are some customers there. Do that right, or say, Oh, fifteen of them are in industrial engineering or something like that. All right, let just take our existing ebook and turn that into industrial engineering oriented ebooks so that they can send this to them very specifically, so that they feel like the value and we care about them and all that stuff. You start looking at all these different elements, which essentially means you don't go and say I'm going to run three blogs a month, a week, I'm going to do two Webin ors a month, I'm going to do one white paper. You throw that out and come back to the salesman saying these are your forty deals that you want to close and we're going to find a way from all these many of options which one makes sense and have those plays done for you. You do that for thirty days. I promise you that they will go, assuming they have success, and I have no doubt reason to believe they won't, because I've seen this work so many times. They will go and tell the entire sales team like, look what happened. This is why I crossed my quote of this mother this quarter. Guess what, because you ran that experiment. Now the sales leader is going to come and say, in sort of asking for leaves, he or she will going to come ask to you for saying can you do that for the rest of my team? Now you got a conversation of the executive team going that says, how do we give marketing more budget? To do that right. So you change the conversation. And I don't know who said this, but if you're okay not taking credit for it and letting others, which your sales team, take credit for it, you can do anything, anything possible. So I challenge everybody to think about this in a different ways, sort of saying this is a marketing initiative. No, work with your sales team, nobody even has to have to know that you're doing this. Go and work with you to sales team and start working on the deals that matter to them. Everything else changes automatically the next thirty days. So good, which ties back to where you open, which is this is all about aligning with the revenue goal, which is I mean that is the point. Like what customers do you want? How can we organize around that? Who Do we actually serve best, and how can we best reach those people in an efficient manner? It reminds me of it's just general. I don't know if I reign into it when I was working on an NBA or somewhere else, but the research around one of the biggest challenges is defining the problem. I think so many people are looking for where to apply solutions, but they haven't done the homework of defining the problem, and so that's what you were made making me think of. Here's the problem is, I have these twenty accounts in I need to move them forward at at you know, summer, at the stage, summer, at the stage, summer, at this stage, and need move all twenty of these deals forward. And then marketing rolls in and says, okay, we will help you move those forward. And so we're going to divide, we're going to we're going to define activities and execute activities based around this very specific we've defined the problem. The problem is there's not en a velocity right here is opposed to you know, I've been in teams and I've even done it myself, where we're just doing things that we assigned ourselves and hoping that sales finds value in it. Yeah, it's just and it's super, super powerful. I mean I was going to ask you about the power of the alignment when we were talking about one team, but it should be very apparent that it's all around efficiency of revenue and how to best serve the customer. I got a couple more things I want to ask about. One of them is book related and I think you'll enjoy this this part of the conversation. New Story is an organization that all of the proceeds of...

...a BM ISB Tob are going to support. How to give you the opportunity to talk about who is new story, what are they doing and why did you commit this way? What's your motivation to support the organization through the book? And thanks even for because I think that problem. You're right, I'll totally enjoy the next five done. You know seconds that you give me on this thing because it's it's very close to my heart. So I meant Brett, who's a CEO and go founder off new story. They're based in Atlanta and San Francisco and it was really interesting. I'm never felt me drawn to one type of charity or the other. If somebody asked me for money, I'll do it, other do it from a church. I like it just that. But beyond that I never understood or valid and always felt like, oh my goodness, what am I doing? I'm talking about marketing, and then people over here are get you know, grading like charity, water and stuff like even they're doing so many amazing things. I almost felt like whatever I'm doing is absolutely worthless, like it. They has no value, like you know whatsoever. We make software that I can't even touch. So you know, it's val like valueless sometimes, and it does feel like that sometimes. It just just how it is, even though you know obviously there are people their jobs and their businesses run and life's are supported from it, but sometimes you just want to touch it tangibly, right, and when I met bread I felt like his story of the fact that when he was out there in a couple of like in Mexico and some other places, he just saw that people didn't have homes and we bote we take for granted over here, and and he just had this dream of building communities of houses, not one house but a community. And what was really interesting is they're doing it using d printer, so they can literally build hundred houses in hundred days. And something that they want as a y combinator, so to say, nonprofit that has d printing houses. They have one, one kind of built in Austin as a prototype and now they're going to build communities all over the place. Like Tony Robbins, a lot of other people have been putting money into this. A lot of the tech founders that I know are already investors in them or giving the money to do a whole bunch of things. So I love the fact that it has technology and not just any other like raise money kind of thing. And the second part of it is there a hundred percent new to charity water kind of business model, which is all the money that they we are raising for them, will go to this cause and their operating cost is funded by farmers like me and others who are just giving the operational cost off it right. So I love the part that the hundred percent of the money that will go from the proceeds or the reviews for the book will go directly to them and that will go directly to the people who are in need as opposed to like all the logistical cause that comes with it. So anyhow, I'm just I felt that, man, look, this is not going to be a New York time best seller book and stuff. I wish it could in some ways, but we're very focus and targeted. If nothing else, I would a create awareness for them in the tech community and that's really my hope and goal with that. It's awesome. I love the I love the multiple layers there and actually sets up kind of the last thing that I wanted to get to you before a standard close that I think you'll also enjoy, just because, knowing the kind of purse you are, I think you'll enjoy the closing questions, which is the community element, right, and so it's not just we're going to pick this family and build this house or we're going to take this plot of land and put a house on it, which is also awesome and equally valid in its own way, but this idea of building community, in the value of community. And so, you know, one of the things that you're wellknown for saying is without a community or just a commodity. So talk about build that bridge from you know, the communities that new story are building and the communities around thoughts and ideas, in practices as regard ABM, terminus, etc. Talk a little bit about community versus commodity. And in a marketplace type of way. Yeah, in a human way. Yeah. Well, so I literally just finished reading Tony, who... the CEO of Zappos, his book on delivering happiness and he attributed all the success and it's like twenty years now people there. It's a long time. You think about it. Twenty Years Right and at the end of ten years is when Zappos was acquired by Amazon. So and he continues to be the CEO Zappos and now it's about twenty years. So really good story to think about. This clearly fundamentals. They're not somebody's hopping around. And in his book it attributes the entire success of his come his growth of the company to three things, which is brand and very clearly defined as best customer service, so something that I think your audience would absolutely love. Number two was culture and it defined that as delivering wow, both externally to your customers, would also internally to your employees. So I felt like that was really strong. And number three, he said, well, you got to have brand, you got have culture, but ultimately you also need to create an employee education and development platform internally as an organization, everybody in organization should be growing, both personally and professionally. And I was blown away, like he didn't talk about product, he didn't talk about his service, he didn't talk to any of these like these are the three things and they call it the BCP grand culture and he calls the pipeline for the Internal Training and Development Program and all that to me he was just trying to build a very strong internal community and community with their customers that is based on the promise that we're going to deliver. Wow, right, and and I felt like man, that is really strong. So if one of the greatest companies out there is not focused on product as much as their focus on this and not saying that you got a shitty product, you're us that those are table stakes. I think we need to start building this higher narrative and really focusing not just saying but doing it, and I think people would start making making a note of it and this whole idea of without a community, you're a commodity. I think that is my oneliner for my five years of experience as a startup guy is if we didn't do that, it would be really hard for us to grow at the rate we're growing. But in spite of that, everybody else can copy everything that we do. There's not a single feature we're going to develop in the next five ten years that are going to be so groundbreaking that nobody else in the work and copy everybodying copy. What they can copy is the community aspect of it, which is why I love the fact that when new story and others like when people or what you're trying to do with this podcast, that are all run a build a community, because people want to be part of a community, not a product, but a community, and that that to me just feels, at the human level, really important. Yeah, I agree completely and I think you've got so much going on. They're just tied up in in the company, the Folkus just just the concepts of ABM and what that means for building relationships with customers so that you can be very intentional and specific, not worrying about everyone, worrying about specific people and and how you can serve and up serve those folks. Building it internally, investing in your people, which even that layer as you're going through Tony's shays teachings there. It made me think about what you were saying just fifteen or twenty minutes ago about the hard path is to go tell everyone what to do. The easy path to say here's a problem, and so if you have a bunch of smart, committed people and you just point them at the right things and kind of again take some time, especially maybe at the executive level, to make sure people are aligned in the right directions and going toward the right things. The rest of us just going to take care of itself and it's more enjoyable for everyone involved. It's better for the customer, it's better for the employee and it's better for the for the health of the business in general too. So it's awesome, I think people hearing that and saying that. I think it'll become more and more true. I think from a hardcore go to market standpoint it's absolutely right, because the other side that we didn't talk about is the commodity and it's like I ought whenever I talk about that Commodity Element. You know, I we work with a lot of people who fear disintermediation, the idea that they're jobs are going to be replaced. You know,...

...not truck drivers, although they're certainly threatened by self driving trucks, but you know people that are trying to figure out. A lot of sales people who are trying to figure out, will people just buy this directly? Will I be cut out of this process by a tool or an APP or something else? And you know, we're teaching them how to reinject the human element into the process through video, to bring it to life, to build some emotional connection to answer questions more clearly and more quickly than someone could get a solution by maybe reading a eighteen paragraph support article or something like that. And so it's this. It's this commodity side of it where a lot of things will become commoditized, but these things that people have emotional investments in it through personal relationship and other kind of everything that community entails is the antidote to the commodification of our businesses. Is so good. I love what you're doing. Do you have anything on the now? Man? Thank you. So you summarize that one? Be Good. There's a lot. Yeah, so. So the way we always wrap up here, relationships are our number one core value here a bomb amban on the podcast. And so I always like to give you the chance to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and to give a shout out to a company that you think is delivering great experiences for you as a customer. All right, so the person who's having a lot of impact recently, more than anything, has been my son. I think I'm in learning a lout from him. Oh, being present and just being in the moment and doing stuff that doesn't really be part of the normal rule and stuff. So I love like one day he just you know, walked out with like a you know, tennis shoes and like terminus socks the like, like football socks and, you know, basketball shorts and a baseball TSHIRT and and I'm like, Dude, what game are we going to play? And he said anything is possible, and I think that just made me realize that, oh my goodness, we just are so tumbel focused on our own lives that sometimes we forget that anything is possible. We just need to think about it differently. so He's been really inspiring and and I'm actually really looking to learn from him every day now because of that like childlike thing that we got to lose as we grow. So how old is he is nine? Awesome. Yes, it's there's a lot of good stuff there. And then I think as a company, I mean there's there are several really good companies. I feel like. Obviously drift is doing really good around a lot of just being human, around a lot of the interactions and stuff, and I know David cancel and David Gerard really well. I think another company that's really doing well that is actually not talked about as much as GTO. So GTWO is a customer reviews platform which, again from a customer experienced perspective, there's no better place to go and look for what is the truth, and I look at that reviews of people all like almost are regular basis to just see what are people saying about it and what they have really done in terms of building a community and stuff. They're like thousands and thousands of reviews and they have just opened up this wall between products and and and the customers to know what exactly is behind the scenes so people can't hide behind like, well, let me show you a powerpoint deg that shows what we don't have, but looks really good on powerpoint. It actually let me just see what the product and other people are using it say. So I feel like they're doing a really good job of customer experience and marketing as well. It's awesome and they're and they're raising the importance of customer experience by making the actual customers experience more transparent and and giving a you know, social as. Obviously, in general it's rise empowered customers at a broad level, but in a focused way. Someone like g tow that's that's to the point of account based marketing. They're not trying to review every product in service. It's a very focused, in organized platform and it gives gives buyers such transparency. So it raises up the the demands on us as service providers to do our best job. I like reading arch to crowd reviews as well, or G to. Sorry, did they drop crowd? Yeah, did what? They didn't have cowd. They have dotcom or somebody like or do to. Yeah, they had you to crowd ride. Remember. Now it's all G docom. Yeah, cool, sayning room. This was as fun as I...

...expected, and I had very high expectations. I know folks are going to get a lot out of it. There's so many ways to connect with you. I feel like you're your man about the Internet, man about the industry, but in a targeted way. If folks enjoyed this and they wanted to follow up, besides picking up a copy of a BM is b Tob, what else might people do to connect with you? I'm in Linkedin. Honestly, it's really interesting you to say many different ways. I'm actually a nowhere to be found other than linkedin and like email. I just have focused on it and I'm not on Snapchat, I'm not. I'm hardy on twitter, I'm not on whatever is then you think, or day talk or whatever. I'm literally on Linkedin, so it's actually very easy to find me now. Awesome. So look up saying room badgery on Linkedin. You will not regret it. Tons of great content and a growing community saying room. This has been a pleasure. I appreciate your time so much and I wish you continued success. And we are man thanks even for everything you do. Man Clear Communication, Human Connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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