The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

46. Developing Customer Loyalty Requires Cultural Empathy w/ Kristin Messerli


Millennials are the most diverse generation in U.S. history with 44% of the generation reporting minority backgrounds. 

That means, if companies haven’t figured out how to work with or sell to millennials, it’s best to start— well — now. One idea to seriously consider is cultural empathy.

On the latest episode of The Customer Experience Podcast, I have the pleasure of speaking with an expert and practitioner of cultural empathy, Kristin Messerli

As the founder and CEO of Cultural Outreach, Kristin has a distinguished insight into reaching up-and-coming markets.

Kristin fills us in on:

  • Her definition of customer experience
  • Generational differences in the expectations of companies
  • What millennials need from their employers
  • The value in understanding cultural nuances within and outside of your organization

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Millennials as employees. One of the biggest priorities for them. It's going to be upward mobility or skill development and just team culture. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. If you're interested in connecting with young and diverse audiences as your customers and as your team members, you've checked out the right episode. Our guest has spent more than a dozen years working on multi cultural solutions and businesses and in social work. She's worked with several multinational social enterprises and she's currently running cultural outreach, a company she founded nearly seven years ago that provides diversity training, multicultural content, cause driven marketing and more. Christen messarily, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you so much. Yeah, really love what you're up to. Really glad this episode started. When we get the chance to meet in person a couple months back and we share a passion that we will get into later on, around using video to connect and communicate with people in a more personal way. But let's start where we always start, which is your thoughts or your definition or anything that comes to mind when I say to you customer experience. So customer experience to me is that there the thoughts and the feelings that you have in using someone's product or in going through the process of using that product. Yeah, a lot around thought and feeling, I think. Yeah, and it's what we're left with. I think that often turns into stories and those types of things as well. Do you feel like I'm under the impression, and of course I guess I'm guilty in this, that a lot more people are talking about customer experience now than they were, say, four, five, six seven years ago? If you observe that, and if so, what do you think about that? Yeah, and it's interesting because I think we've expanded that definition so much at this point and we become really passionate about having a good customer experience as the consumer. But I mean, I think about Luke. On my career, I've always been talking about customer experience but not really realizing that's what I was doing, and I talked a lot about how to empathize with the customer and how to, you know, build a connection with your consumers or your clients and their marketing, and I didn't realize, I think, until a little bit later on, that all of that is about customer experience, you know. So I think we're that definition has become very trendy, but a lot of people have been talking about it for a while. Totally agree. It's new language for some basic in critical fundamentals. For me, I came up in brand marketing, so I remember some of my early mentors were were around brand and branding and really those share those those elements share...

...a lot in common. Again, it's the impressions you're left with, the thoughts and the feelings, the stories that you tell other people and all of that. So in these conversations on this podcast I've come to understand that brand experiences can to it and maybe even synonymous with customer experience. So you're right, it's new language for things that we've always known we needed to do. But I'm glad it's raised up in your right that consumers are really driving this. So let's get into what you have spent so much of your life on, which is young and diverse markets, next Gen consumers and underserved markets. That's some of the language that is on your website and things for folks that are familiar, I guess, before we get their talk a little bit about cultural outreach and why the focus on these communities in particular. So I started cultural outreach about five years ago and previously I was working as a social worker, primarily with immigrant communities and and I did a lot of I started doing a lot more training with businesses on how to work with my clients, because I realize there was just this huge gap in communication and how how they are marketing to them and how it's creating a just my clients were not having access to a lot of the services and businesses that they needed. So in doing that, I realize there's a big business opportunity and so I started the the company with a focus on training and helping them to develop a lot of their marketing efforts as well, and so it's expanded into doing things more on a we developed something called a culture map, which stands for market access plan, and so we'll evaluate a company in eight different areas, from everything from digital to their customer experience. So they're their community outreach efforts and and different components they're hiring and all of that to see how they're effectively reaching those markets and and so that's something that we're able to replicate and in different actual cities and with different businesses. And so we focus a lot on the training piece and then doing the culture maps and then some other consulting projects around customer experience or user interface design and things like that that help a company or product really connect with the customer. I really appreciate that the idea that you took your background, your experience. Obviously have a passion for these communities through the social work that you were doing and you identify the business opportunity and just ran at I think that's awesome. So again, going to the language that I've seen on your website and maybe even on your linkedin profile, I forget, but you know, young and diverse, next generation underserved, like talk about the types of people you're focused on as employees and customers for the businesses that you're working with. So it really depends on on the business. But in today's market we have, I think of ninety two percent of population growth is coming from multicultural families and in consumers and so and millennials, who everyone is trying to reach as a business. Nearly half a millennials I identify as ethnic minorities.

So I think it's important that we really pay attention to the fact that we're looking at age diversity, we're looking at at a lot of diversity from an ethnic standpoint, socio economic background, all of those things that really play a factor, haven't that plays as a significant factor and thinking about how someone is going to connect with your message and how your content or your communication or experience is going to really connect with that audience. And so we look at all across all of those areas, but focus a lot on the socio economic, ethnicity and age differences. Awesome, I think I give so many, so many fellow questions here. What is our own generations? You know, you know, we obviously cut them. I am Gen x. When we slice populations at a certain point, you know, when does this generation and where's the other one start? In your experience and observation, how generalized are the differences between boomers X, millennial Gen Z etc. Like, talk about just that. Go to the age part a little bit and in are the real fundamental differences there? Yeah, there really are differences. I mean I think it's important that we realize we're all human beings. were all wanting the same types of things. But I think in looking at the generational differences, especially when you get to around thirty and younger as a consumer, they are using technology a group up with technology and just a very different way than previous generations had. So while we might all want I'm I'm thirty two, but while we might all want things quickly and we want to use technology the way, for someone that grew up using this at five years old, you know it's they have a different way of using tech and they're they're going to have different expectations. So some of the big ones that I found are are that expectation for efficiency and good quality user design, user interface and design. That expectation for responsiveness is huge with it. With a younger audience. They are if you don't respond right away or they're they're not able to access someone really quickly, they move on so much faster than someone from a previous generation. And a few other value differences there or expectations. I guess would are around the the trust factor because I think for millennials, having having entered adulthood daring or right after the financial crisis and housing crisis and and for a variety of factors, they have their way less trusting than previous generations were, and so building that trust through community involvement, through the humanizing factor, like video things like that, that's a really big need for a millennial consumer that differs, I think, a lot from previous generations. And so do you find it? The folks you're working with struggle to I mean, these are things they would need to do for their business regardless, but maybe the fact that this group of folks is now in their or target customer population. They have disposable income... and so now they need to their force to make some of these changes to stay relevant. Yeah, it's really interest saying. I think I started my business at a time when people still are companies had kind of option of doing that. They were thinking, Oh, yeah, I do want to be more modern and update update things. But now it's becoming urgent and so I think because of that shift and wealth and all of that, people and companies are really seeing that immediate need for updating their design and not just, like, you know, having the tech, but they have to make sure their website and their APP and everything is really tight and very has a very clean modern design and that all of their sales professionals or their company is using customer views and being active on, you know, having a good presence on Yelp and whatever customer view sites they are using. But those types of things have become an absolute necessity and urgent need, and so we've seen that shift over the last few years. Something that we've talked about a lot on the show here is the relationship between although not enough. We haven't talked about this enough, the relationship between customer experience and employee experienced, the idea that a great customer experience starts with a great employee experience. Engaged employees, satisfied employees, employees with clear direction, but also a lot of the, you know, support that they need. So I would guess that this generation and these demands are probably translating for employers as well. Can you speak to the kind of the recruiting, hiring, on boarding, engagement retention process, not of the customer but the millennial as team member or employee? Yeah, so millennials as employees, one of the biggest priorities for them it's going to be upward mobility or skill development and just team culture, and so that's something that I think is surprising for a lot of companies. It's honestly been very surprising for me as an employer even because I you don't realize how important those little nuances are of making sure that your employee feels truly engaged in the in the company, they feel like they have ownership over their projects, they feel like they're having a positive impact in the world through the work that they're doing, and all of those, those feelings and that employee experience drives their productivity. And so I think thinking more about team culture and not it doesn't have to be like having a ping pong table in your in your office, but and for me I mean all my employees are remote and so you may have a remote team as well, but but making sure that you're constantly on an individual level, you have strong mentorship and you're you're building a team culture there, and so I think that one is a big factor. And then also, I meant, and at the beginning of that, upward mobility and skill development it's...

...a big deal with millennials and I think the income is going is continuing to shift toward being a higher priority. But the younger they are, the more they value having the skill development above actually what they're getting paid and so but the opportunity to make more, the opportunity to climb in either ranks or business or business opportunities are learning new skills are huge factor for how satisfied and how productive they are as employees. Yeah, it's really interesting. I've noticed that myself a significant interest in titles and structure in particular seems to be more meaningful than I ever remember like in my coming up. It's like, you know, even sometimes even separate from a skill development conversation. You know, it's like when we talk about growth in a one on one setting and it's like and look at all this growth, but you know, but the titles the same. And so I don't might not feel like I have enough external or extrinsic signs or motivators to let me know that I am actually making this progress. It's been to that I would say there was a difference that I've noticed or the past maybe five six years. I know that is a big one. And I think it's that validation of feeling appreciated. You know that you you are recognized as okay, I did all this work and and you recognize me. And I know a lot of we get made fun of a lot as as a millennials for being the snowflake generation or participation trophy generation. And and there there's truth to the fact that we do want to we want our mentors and are employers, to recognize that we did do a good job, you know, and and that can go a really long way for their productivity. So I found that in, you know, in that kind of mentorship and relationship, if you acknowledge them, and honestly, this is regardless of age, that it just is needed, I think, more with a younger generation, but in a team meeting, if you highlight someone for giving a good customer experience, that we can and hand them a, you know, five dollar starbucks Gift Card that cost you nothing and barely any time, but that's going to make everyone, you know, just realize how important that is and feel more appreciated every time they get that. And then on an individual level, you know, yeah, giving the constructive feedback and that kind of thing, but always really being conscious and spending time in highlighting the good things that they're doing. And so actually I have a client that feels kind of like an employer to me right now, and and he is. He constantly only shares those things that are negative, that like need to be changed, you know, and and I get it and I try to always feel all right, thick skin, here I go. But but it feels so good when he says something positive that that I do that I think, man, if if I heard that a little bit more, I know I would be more motivated. And it's just it's learning, you know, our psychology and what's going to make us more productive and more loyal to you as an employer. So good. The IT reminds me of we've been doing this exercise.

Steve Passon, Elli rcmo and my coauthor on Rehumanize Your Business, which is about simple personal videos, started this and I'm going to have picked it up and done it with him and I will steal it from him whenever I'm presenting without him. And where we stop it, like in a longer format, will stop and we'll do a fifteen minute like working break and we'll challenge people just to get out their phones will coach them through it to record just a simple thank you video. Think of someone who is meaningfully meaningful to you, like the first person that comes to mind. Record a sin quick, simple, sincere video message and send it and then at the end of the break we do like a five, depending on how much engagement there is, five or ten minute kind of breakdown and we share people's stories because people, some people are getting replies like right away in real time. And no joke, there are tears, there's in on the recipient side and sometimes even on the center side like this. You totally turn my day around. It's so interesting. I'm glad you mentioned that that at least the appreciation piece transcends age in it in a real, real way, because I don't think any of us here's thank you enough and it's a simple thing we can do to engage our employees in our customers much more off and in videos a great way to do it because it's a asynchronous it's you in full in person. It's not you can see thank you type on a screen. It's just not the same thing, because it's that difference that you can feel right it allows them to be seen and heard, looking them straight in the eye. It's just super, super powerful and I would expect that you're like me and that you think, think about that all the time, like Oh man, I really appreciate that he did that. It's like this fleeting thought as you're walking down the street or going up the stairs or whatever the case may be, and turning that into action is the gap that really separates, I think, and will continue to separate, good organizations from great organizations in terms of the people that they attract and retain. Yeah, that's so true. I actually have a couple videos saved on my phone that I will look at every now and then because a client, couple different clients, sent me a video follow up after something, saying, you know, I just really appreciate the training that you did and, you know, shared something that was meaningful and it was just so powerful. It took them, you know, thirty seconds to to put that together, but I am like man, that's that's what I do this for, is for someone to have a change in their behavior or has some kind of impact, and for you to communicate that on a personal level is a huge it's a really inspirational experience. Yeah, it's great. Do you have any other thoughts on video while we're here. You know, I did not know when we met that that you were very familiar with what we do and that that you have some of your own stories of, you know, positive responses and things. What have you seen in terms of video, the rise of video and in particular this rise of simple personal video where, if you seen it go well, do you have any stories that that you love to share or anything like that? Yeah, man, I talked about this a lot because I do think the personal video is such an important touch and and actually, in talking about millennials and under serves communities, a big factor there is about building trust and building that personal connection. And when you realize that someone is responsive and someone that you can trust and that they're going to be...

...a good guide through this process, it changes everything about that. That's the customer experience that we want, and so by providing those videos that either are a short video response to a question they had, like you know, someone might text over some question and you respond over video and say hey, I wanted to explain this well, Blah like that is an awesome customer experience and then allows them to watch that on their own time and not feel like they have to schedule a call to call whatever, and then also building that connection through video calls. Instead of being on a phone call, you just schedule a video call and you're able to build that relationship so much better. So I think I mean a few of the heart of course, tons of success stories about that, because this is a lot of the things that I teach on. But you know, even sharing little birthday videos, like whenever it's someone's birthday and you say, Hey, just want to tell you happy birthday whatever. I've told people to do that and people write send me screenshots of people saying I can't tell you how much this meant to me and this is so cool that you would do that, and it just it's bring its rehumanizing business. I Love, Love, love what that can do to someone's life and and, of course, your business when, when you are able to connect on that human level, it changes everything for the consumer and for developing that kind of loyalty. See, it's so right on. I love that and I'll just tack on one more there, because you just kind of mention it. For folks who are listening and they're thinking about doing simple personal videos who we're wondering when would I do this? How would I do this? How do I operationalize and all that? Kristen just gave you a really, really great use case. And and it's happening to you. In linkedin every day you're seeing birthdays, and facebook for that matter, birthdays. You're seeing new positions or promotions and those kinds of things, and you could just join the herd and click the like button or drop a little, you know, comment, and that's good. You shouldn't not do that. But taking that extra step of looking someone in the eye and, mayb telling a little story or adding a personal note about how I hope you get to that great restaurant that you love, that always has that Kyanti that you that you can't stop talking about. I hope you enjoy that tonight because it's your birthday or you know something. Congratulatory, man. It's I can't believe we were working together ten years ago and and now here you are running this particular part of this operations, this cool company, whatever the case may be. Like your social feeds are filled with reasons to reach out with simple personal videos. So and that's an easy place to start as is. Thank you. That's good. I'm glad we could do a pass out and video, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, for I feel the same way and I think you know it's it's just bringing this pendulum swing back, or this balance back to the you know, we do want the efficiency of digital experiences where they're anticipating our needs and it's seamless and we're working toward friction list in terms of getting signed up or moving from here to there or knowing what's going on and all these other things. But what goes missing in that scenario again, is that human touch, and so I'm I'm glad that you're out there is a champion of it as I am. I want to talk a little bit about a phrase that you...

...offer, cultural empathy. Can you just double back on that a little bit, talk about what that means and maybe talk about what that means from an operational standpoint for folks that are with us here at this point the conversation, or like I like the sound of all of this. I am working with a team of people who aren't necessarily young or from underserved communities or markets, or or not we don't have a variety of cultures represented in our organization. What does cultural empathy mean and ord are some ways that we might be able to operationalize it. So cultural empathy is all about understanding the the mindset of another individual. So empathizing is obviously like kind of putting yourself in someone else's shoes. When I talk about cultural empathy, I mean that from either an organizational level or in kind of what you were talking about, like operationalizing something on a on a business level. So you might think about customer experience. Is a certain element of that where you might deliver customer your customer experience in a certain way and not realize that that's not connecting with certain demographics, like that's not resonating with millennials or that's not really resonating with your non English speaking clients, and and so how do you empathize and understand where they're coming from and what is going to connect with them and then make those adjustments? And the same thing goes from an employment standpoint. But one of the really simple things that I learned early on and what really triggered me kind of thinking more about this, was when I was a social worker, I was working a lot with immigrant communities and and I a lot of Spanish speaking individuals and I spoke Spanish fluently, but I was not connecting while with them and I was having a hard time building that trust and and so I but I realized that it was because I was treating them the way that I would want to be treated. And and so, you know, you think the golden rule is a good approach, but it doesn't work in business a lot of times. And so I need to think about how, not how to treat them the way that I would want to be treated, but how to treat them the way that they want to be treated. So in that instance I was thinking they were them. I'd be wanting to get through these appointments really quickly and efficiently because I value my time. But for a lot of my clients, they were wanting to get to know me and and build they've had the strong value of personalism and wanted to sit down the chat a little bit before we got down to business. And so when I made an adjustment and started just, you know, chatting for a little bit, having a cup of coffee, not being on my computer right away, and within five minutes I saw just a crazy difference and that they're like the way that they would open up to me and and we saw their outcomes just go through the roof like we had a little, you know, scoring model and the whole office was like, what is happening? How did everyone just like boost like like this? And and I realized in understanding those kind of cultural nuances of your customers, of your employees across the board, you can build these connections that have really...

...meaningful results. And so of course they've replicated that in I started then in healthcare and worked with a lot of hospitals and in that area and then got into mortgage and housing and and it's been we've seen huge results just by thinking more about cultural empathy in your customer experience and these other areas of business. So if someone so they recognize that that they're not connecting is you did, and I love that personal story and just how they created this kind of Aha moment for you that then immediately became something you could act upon. What are what is an approach to start understanding some maybe maybe of these pockets of customers that you don't even recognize that are maybe they're not engaging with the service or the product at the same level, and then you come to realize that there's maybe a cultural gap, like do you survey? You do customer interviews, like what are some of the tools for folks that maybe are like, gosh, maybe that's what's going on over here in this part of my business, like what are some approaches to get at it? Yeah, so definitely surveys and interviews are really helpful. I'm working on a project right now and updating someone's user interface at for a technology and and we started with realizing, okay, like looking at the different demographics of their customers and then doing a survey of people from those demographics and we particularly we're looking at one area that was not engaging with the product very well, and so we developed a survey and I use them cash. I think it's Ashym, but there's a bunch of online survey tools that you can use that are really valuable and you can narrow in specifically on a on a market segment and then look at the insight that they had. And here we were able to see what they valued about working with this particular provider and what they valued like what their perceptions were throughout the process and and so those kinds of insights help you to make adjustments and then but also walking with a particular customer and talking with them and seeing where they might have questions along the way that are not being answered, or or even talking with people that are experts or are would provide input on how a particular marketing flyer is going to resonate with that audience. I mean some of those just really qualitative research that can be really helpful. For in one example we there was a home buy or seminar that people are doing in the Korean community and and I didn't realize that, like a lot of the colors and the they had the language all right and they were distributing it correctly, but the even the design of that Flyer just did not appeal to that audience and so instead of like the traditional marketing flyer, they change it up to be more reflective of Korean culture and and it made a huge difference in how many people turned out for that event. So little things like that on how you display content can just by interviewing people and talking with people, you can find out... that's going to resonate or connect. Yeah, and you also offered there this. A lot of the research has been done already. So if you if you can't or don't want to, or maybe you're going into a new market. Their resources that you can hit up to at least play to that that curve without doing the homework yourself. Ill. Yeah, I mean there's tons of stuff available without doing that. There's a lot of, you know, reports out there and and even just sometimes just talking to someone representative of those markets. A few people can give you a lot of insight. I love doing the actual research side, but and you can always talk to me about doing that, but you don't always have to dive in that deep. It's good you talk and write about social media, about partnerships and other ways to build connection into communities that you want to understand better and want to understand you better. Do you have any tips around social partnerships or any other any other besides the immediate transactional stuff of you know, websites and forms and add add materials and things. Yeah, so, I I mean I talked about social media just because it's another communication point, you know, an access point. So from that standpoint it's just to me. I'm not like the Social Media Gurgle or anything, but I'm all about anyone that you meet you need to follow on social media and you know, because it then it builds that connection and and you're building a another point where they can build a relationship with you by watching you on social media or engaging with you, and vice versa, right, and vice versa very importantly. Yeah, vice versa. And but on the community relationship side, I think that's one that's really overlooked from most businesses, community partnerships and relationships, and what that looks like is, for Incans, if you're wanting to reach the millennial audience, it's identifying who are influencers in that community. Maybe it's an employer that hires lots of millennials, maybe it's a coffee shop owner and or coffee shop and we work location or, you know, areas that are reaching those segments and then building relationships there and finding ways that you can insert yourself or your company provide some kind of service or value that's going to reach them, or young professional organizations. And the same thing goes for if you're wanting to better reach the Hispanic and Latina market, then identifying community influencers and nonprofits that are serving those communities and building those relationships, offering a service or value there over time and becoming an active member in participating there. So those are the types of partnerships I think go a really long way and building networks and in roads into communities that are often underserved. Totally agree, especially about the in person stuff. I mean there's just nothing better than spending a few hours, or even a couple of days really in a community that you're not very familiar with. That's it's been, you know, as we were coming up and we identified a potential product market fit in the real estate community, for example, and we would go... these real estate conferences and you're standing in a booth and talking to, you know, hundreds of people all day. Not Not that they're necessary, they are obviously not an underserved community or they don't fit this criteria, but but it is a community in a culture, yeah, that has some of its own unique characteristics. And so being in there and how do they talk? How do they talk to us? How do they talk to each other? What kind of questions do they come with? You know, how can you how can you manage the conversation? Well, like, there's just that in person stuff just can't be gathered any other way. I mean reading a really good report or even doing the interviews is helpful, but you there's nothing like being fully wrapped in it for long periods of time. One follow up for you on this. It just occurred to me as I was talking about individual interviews versus, you know, being surrounded by thousands of people who fit some basic criteria. Do you have any cautions that you would give listeners or that you would give your own clients about, you know, putting people into these kind of larger buckets? I mean you have to and it's a totally understand why we do it. It is useful, but any cautions as you go through that kind of categorization? So glad you bring this up because I always forget to really mention this, because this is a huge disclaimer that we need to always talk about when we're thinking about putting people in boxes, and no one wants to be put in a box. No one can actually fit into a box perfectly anyway. We're all individuals and and most of us are on some kind of spectrum of diversity. All of us are on some kind of spectrum of diversity in some way, you know, and so it is really important that we understand the differences so that we can be really comprehensively ready to serve and reach customers from whatever background and and you know, mindset and all that that you may have in front of you. But everyone is an individual and and I think by saying, Oh, all millennials are like this, you're you're not actually empathizing anyway. You know, you're just being trying to put things in a in a box, and I don't think that's helpful or ever going to build a meaningful connection with a consumer. Good. I'm glad we did that pass. This has been really interesting. I really appreciate the work that you're up to and I really love the origin story for it. I'm glad we will get to that right away. Relationships are our number one core value here at bombomb so I always like to give you the chance to thank or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or your career and then give a shout out to a company that you really like or respect for the experience that they deliver for you as a customer. Okay, well, the first there's so many people I could think, but when one person that comes to mind right away is dave savage. He is the founder CEO of a mortgage coach and and just someone that has always opened the door for me and to opportunities for me to grow as in my career and eat the right people and just and always been someone that I can one hundred percent trust. And I think, you know, in a world where you're you're...

...never sure if someone's actually going to be, I don't know, have the the right incentive, you know, in our heart or whatever he truly always wants to have. It has an impact on the world and and I'm really appreciud of someone that would open the door like that to allow me to grow as a as a professional and as a business so and then on a business side, shows not more strategically about this, but I'm going to share of just a recent customer experience I had that was so good. So there's a small business that has the most amazing chicken sandwiches and down the street from me and I had a horrible customer experience with postmates where I was starving and getting very, very angry and they had not picked up my chicken sandwich and we're supposed to deliver it to me. I called this this restaurant, Bertie's, being like hey, you know what's what's going on and they're like, I don't they saw him picked it up. They call me back. The restaurant called me back to say hey, postmates picked up your sandwich and is on the way and and I'm like you're so amazing. And then the postmates guy never delivers it and like it's last whatever. I can't contact them. So I'm furious, you know. I mean I'm like really hungry and furious. So I called Bertie's and and they're like, if you want to come right now, will rush your order and and you can just pick it up for free. And so, anyway, they were just over the top, like all about I want to take care of you as a customer. It was a small, stupid chicken sandwich, you know, like no one. I you wouldn't expect anyone to even care about that. But I have just been raving about them nonstop and I think it was a great example of going over and beyond cut in customer experience and what someone like me, you know, I'm going to be their greatest marketer. I love it. And you raise I mean this is a whole separate conversation that will maybe do in the future, but you raise the see this, this deal where you have other partners in your business ecosystem, but you are responsible for the experience and so you know whether it's your own direct employees or whether it's this kind of third party intermediary between you and your customers, in this case postmates. You can't just blame it on this other company and say, man, you know, you really need to hit those people up. is so the fact that they took ownership and just really that's the right thing to do, and so all of us sen thing really for us when our platform goes down because on an Amazon web services and this part of the country is out and part of our APP is on that server, like we have to eat that. Like. You are responsible for the whole experience, even if you're using other companies to bring it to life. Christian this has been Super Fun for folks who want to learn more about you, they want to learn more about cultural outreach or anywhere else you'd like to send people to bring this episode a little bit more to life for them. Where would you send people? I would send people to connect with me on Linkedin. Christen mess early and cultural outreachcom is our website. So definitely check us out. There and yeah, I would love to be in touch with anyone that would like to chat. Thank you so awesome...

...on this interview. This is so much fun. Good. I really really appreciate your time so much. And if, if anyone listening wants those links and other things, I always write up these episodes at bombombcom slash podcast and I include video clips as well. So if you've been listening to these but not seeing the guests, they're all there in the blog. Thanks so much for listening and thank you again to you, Kristen. Thank you. Even clear communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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