The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

51. How To Enable Your Sales Team: Practical Tips for Sales Leaders w/ Joe Caprio

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Let’s drill into sales enablement.

Not just the important question of how we can best prepare our salespeople, but I’m talking here about how we set them up to serve our customers successfully? Sales isn’t about quotas; it’s about pursuing our clients’ success.

Which is why it’s completely apt that my guest on this episode of The Customer Experience Podcast was a customer who was absolutely delighted with Chorus.ai before becoming their VP of Sales. I recently talked with Joe Caprio, VP of Sales at Chorus, about sales best practices, sales enablement (and sales readiness), sales training, and more

Joe and I discussed the true impact of sales engagement and how you can execute on the strategies Joe has implemented. Stay tuned in for:

  1. How to make your rookie BDRs as good as your veterans in half the time
  2. What it’s like to be your own ideal customer
  3. Time to productivity, productivity per person
  4. The dreaded Monday lecture

Bonus: Joe reveals what he wishes marketing knew about sales.

That was the biggest Aha for me. was like the number one way to enable your sales team is to getthat tribal knowledge out of your veterans brains and distribute it into the rookies brainsas fast and it's powerful. You're listening to the customer experience podcast, apodcast dedicated to helping today's growing businesses restore a personal human touch throughout the customerlife cycle. Get ready to hear how sales, marketing and customers success expertssurprise and delight and never lose sign of their customers humanity. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. From sales enablement to sales readiness. How do we bestprepare our sales people? How do we set them up not just for successagainst quota, but to best serve our customers? That's the topic on thisepisode of the PODCAST. Our guest is spent fifteen years in a variety ofsales roles in Boston and San Francisco, bicoastal before becoming vp of sales forchorus. He was a delighted chorus customer and the privilege of spending some timewith him at an outreach unleash event a couple months back and I'm excited toreconnect with him here today. Joe Caprio, welcome to the customer experience podcast eventhank you so much for having me. I could return all the same complimentsto you that it really enjoyable time every time we've spoke, so I'mthrilled to be here. Cool. Let's start with where we always start onthe show, which is your thoughts or your definition or characteristics of customer experience. How do you think about it? Sure, customer experience for me,I think, is really really morphed and started to encompass the entire journey.So I think a lot of us are now thinking about the customer experience fromthe first brand impression they get all the way through, you know, thesales cycle, right into deployment and making sure you're deeply embedded and being usedproperly and expanding and renewing. Because he earned it, and so I reallythink of customer experiences just every single customer facing asset and employee, your teammarching to the same tune with the unified message and mission to help your customerssucceed in their business, not just with your tech. It's a great,great answer. You covered a lot of really important elements there. When youmentioned Brandon, so this brand experience, customer experience, I'm hearing you synonymously. It's end to end, it's start to finish, an impact and renewedimpact. It's your people and your assets. You just really covered a lot ofground there and you're right on. I agree with you. For thosewho are who aren't familiar, can share a little bit about course. Youknow who are your ideal customers? Who are you serving? How are youserving those folks? Sure, yeah, I mean are our target customers tobe really gross a our, you know, high growth, rapidly scaling, BobSales Teams. We work with some really cutting in technology like bombomb.We also work with some like massive hundred million dollars funded or publicly trading companieslike data robot Klavo. We in able them specifically their sales enablement and trainingprograms to get their reps field ready faster. So we support qualtrix university and they'llbe sales academy. And essentially we're an intelligence product that joins your salesmeetings, captures what happened, what worked or didn't work, and then turnthat into inspection points for managers, like activity reminders for reps and, ultimately, like the best training program that you can ever put your people through isgiving them an ability to listen to your top performers and learn from how theygo to market. So we are in intelligence platform and a training platform forrapid growth tech. It's great. It really changed the way our sales managementworks with and trains our salespeople and we get great feedback from everyone that usesit in a variety of ways. So love what you all are up to. One of the fun things when I met you, one of them,one of my favorite things that's stuck with me right away, was that youwere a course customer before you became the VP of sales. What was itabout the company or the product or the customer experience they were delivering for youas a customer? Like, what made you say I gotta join this team? Yeah, I tell the story a...

...lot, as you could imagine,right. But yeah, I was a customers. I ran. I ranthe training and enablement program at a company called inside squared back in Boston,and you know, we had a skill gap. We we lacked consistency ofmessage and we would hire folks right out of college and try to get them, you know, ready to sell bi which is really complicated, intense productand you need to be a little more World League than folks that are rightout of college. And so we had a skill gap. I bought chorus, I deployed into my sales team and then I used it for the lastyear that I was at inside square and I cut my ramp time in half. Real talk, I got my ram time in half. I increased mywin rate while doing that. So I was getting people to a higher windrate and less time. I improved consistency of messaging. I got handoffs figuredout so that are a team. was, you know, enabling our customer teamwith the right you know needs from a customer. And it worked.And so my wife kind of makes fun of me where she said, youknow, you stayed inside squared for six years and when you finally left,you went and took like ten different interviews, but I knew you were going tochorus the whole time because in the last year you come home every dayand you're like Oh, the other cool thing that course does for me.So, you know, a lot of people tell the story, but it'sreal with me, like I was a very, very happy customer of thesoftware and I just I just love what we do. Love Enablement, Ilove training. My dolphamine doesn't come from close and deals and comes from enablingdo salespeople to learn how to close deals, and so I love the mission thatwe're on right now of helping our customers support their sellers with better trainingand enablement. It's really good that you mentioned something there and you used worldlyas as a phrase. To phrase that that I've been thinking and using.It is I think about our own team members and variety of positions, notjust in sales. Is Like, how do we raise the business acumen rightas we start to go up market and work with more sophisticated people with moreat stake? And so just close that gap for me a little bit,like how did you use chorus at insight squared to make those folks more worldly? Like what were you looking for or listening for and then feeding back tothem? Like how do you raise up the business acumen of these of theseyoung folks who have obviously had an important job, a complex sale maybe?How did you do that and how to how did the tech help you dothat? Yeah, you know, it's really funny. I'm a really goodfriend named Mark Cossa glow WHO's the head of sales that outreach, and Ithink about the first time that I bought that product and what it did formy sales team. It really enabled my rookie bedrs to send the emails thatmy veteran bedrs were sending, and so folks that had a year or ayear and a half in the seat had figured out what work and what resonatedand what the prospects like to talk about. And then every new hire that Ihad would try to figure it out on their own and by taking thetemplates from a veteran Bedr and giving them to the rookie Bedr. They stillmight not be great on the phone yet, but man, those emails were tight. You start to play that out on the rest of your sales andsupport motion and it's like your veterans have figured out a way to really nailthis this project, and the faster you can get your rookies to pick upwhat's working and what's not working, the fast you can get them to mimicthe veterans and see you start really thinking about like what a the tendkey skillsthat a person seller or supporter needs at your company and how can I createreally powerful lists of good examples of those skills? So it's no longer lectureand role play, is actually watching real interactions that you know, moments thatmade an impact, and then copying that down in your own skill set.That was the biggest Aha for me. was like the number one way toenable your sales team is to get that tribal knowledge out of your veterans brainsand distribute it into the rookies brains as fast and it's powerful, so good. And so it's like the game tape, you know, like we're going back. This is a game from one thousand nine hundred and ninety six,and you could yeah, anyway, can't cheat the man in the glass,yeah, Luch in the mirror, right, or two thousand and sixty year over. Yeah. So you are hardcore about buy your persona, which Ireally respect the way you go at it. You know you're focusing for a biton Biz ops and vops, sales...

...enablement. Talk about your approach tobuy your persona. Like what is that? Why does it matter to you somuch? I mean, I think it's implied, but I'd love tohear your own words. And then what are you doing practically to really steepyourself in who your buyer is, in how they live and work and think, yeah, so I don't care about your features, I really don't.I don't care about your technology and I don't care about your reference customers.I care about how I should use your product your service. I care aboutthe actual teams that I can develop, the changes I can make. Andso when I when I hire and train sales people or even customers success people, it's like, no one cares about your features and they want a demo, but they really want to know how they're going to go out and dotheir job better or more effectively. And so I really need to understand mytarget buyer. Let's I can trick them or sell to them, but soI can understand what they're actually trying to accomplish and then I can highlight theareas of my product or service that can support their mission. And so mybig thing about about really knowing your buyer. It's not just like you know,where do they hang out and what types of mediums can you communicate through? Right, it's not that, it's what are they really trying to accomplishand how can you support them to make them more successful in their careers?Because ultimately, right they're successful in their career, they're a high performer fortheir companys. That is the best way to service your customers, just tomake your purse, your buy or persona really successful in their function. Andthen, know you asked about how do I yea the research piece right.It's one thing to just sit down in a room and we all we've alltalked with fifteen or thirty or fifty of them, and so we just startmaking up some persona. You go a little bit farther than that. Ido. So the first thing I do is I'm going to pitch. Iuse my product that I I drill down on certain people. You know,we record all the calls and then they listen to what the prospects and thecustomers say to us and I sort that by roll. And so went aheadof enablement leverages chorus to train their sales team. What are they talking about? What are they asking for when ahead of sales uses course to inspect andenforce methodology or process? What are they talking about? What they care aboutwhen an executive team builds these listen parties where they're going in there and tryingto mind the calls for incite into what the customers need. What do theycare about, what do they think it about? And so that that's onething they do is I really listened intently to our recorded calls. The otherthing that I do is I actually send all of my ics to school,and so we sell a lot to sales enablement. So I send every iceat my company to sales enablement academy as run by Mesha McPherson from Humblegrid Sale. She's affiliated with Mad Cameron from from Sassi sales management. She runs atwoday workshop. And so if you have a like a new one, theircareer sales enablement leader, you send them to Nisha School. She's a twentyyear sales enablement veteran and she'll teach your sales enablement person how to run salesenablement. And so I send all of my a's and all my CSMS,I send them to her school. They could actually understand what it takes todo sales enablement. So when they're doing these calls are not pitching features andwhen the customer success team is doing their calls they're not just promising the roadmap, they're actually in line with what there their end user supposed to accomplishbecause they were educated on it and get the role. When I was atinside squared, we sold a lot to rebops and we sold, you know, reporting by data, and so I would send my reps to the saleswars and get them salesforth certified. And so every time I take a newGIG, when I'm trying to figure out is who's the buyer or what arethey trying to accomplish and how can I get my people to really understand thatrole in that world, because it's different, they've never done it before. Ilove it. It's a huge value add, obviously for your team members, because who doesn't want to learn and grow in a variety of ways,but it's also huge value add to the customer because you can just get therefaster. So good. So you've mentioned sales enablement a couple of times.You've also mentioned to me sales readiness. Talk about give just a lightweight definitionof sales enablement and or a lightweight definition of sales readiness. What's to someonelike me is a little bit a step away from all of this in adata you're obviously steeping yourself and your team in sales enablement, you know,for the for the more ignorant among us, myself, in any of the listenersthat fit my criteria here. You...

...know, what's the difference between thosetwo and and what is the nuance or evolution that sales readiness brings? Yeah, I think it really comes down to the company that you work for.This is an emerging category. I think back to like the like, youknow, the Sales Force Admin and how over the last decade that's kind oftransformed itself into like global, worldwide vp of operations and strategy, and you'vekind of seen that that role really morph and take shape. And it's becausewe moved our sales teams inside and started buying these inside sales so you know, text acct and so that captures a lot of data. And as westarted to do that, more and more these companies realized if I could havesomebody on staff that could harness that data and help us make better decisions,we'd be a better company for it. And so the sales ops roll hasreally kind of expanded and grown in importance and I think now the next frontierof efficiency is how do I get my humans skilled quickly, you know,and inappropriately, and so I think a lot of companies now are starting toinvest in enablement and ready sooner and they're building bigger teams and they're really doingit with like a metro ricks or data drive an approach. So they're tyingthe coaching initiatives to behavior change, the revenue improvement, and I think whatwe're seeing now is just kind of there isn't standard, and so when Iwas in inside squared, I did sales enablement, but my title was VPof inside sales, and so I really think you're kind of just looking ata like a role that hasn't really been fleshed out. But the ultimate goal, ear is what does it take for a seller to be productive, autonomous, reliable, consistent, and what are all the things that come into that, like do they understand their text act? They have their territory to do theright activities? Is that are their gaps in your process where technology ortraining can support it? And then what are the skills that they have tohave? And the enablement and readiness function at your company needs to have areally detailed list of those items that are a seller needs and they have tohave a plan to get them there quickly. And the ultimate measurement here is timeto productivity and productivity per person, and the mantra is to go outthere and improve those two steps. Love it. So you mean you've builtand trained a number of teams and I would just love a drive by onyou know, I feel like that's a little bit of a look at thepresident into the future. But you know, as you think about situations you've eitherwalked into or heard about, you know what are some common errors?Not Situations where you know you just have a bad manager, this not investingin their people. I mean that's the obvious stuff. But like, whatare some tweaks that like like a solid performing team? Think you just makea few tweaks or look at a couple different things that they could maybe seesome outsize jumps relative to the effort. Yeah, I think it's about repeatable, scalable behaviors and all too often you've got the head of the department,typically head of sales, who knows how to sell really well, and it'skind of like hey, everyone gather around. So I can, you know,dispel my gospel to you, and it's like you know, you're traininglike soccer, tease and Playtoh, right, like the world is changed, theway people interact and consume information is changed, you're still standing up therelecturing at people. And so I think it really comes down to you sometechnology and like build some repeatable processes where, you know, a weekly film reviewor like Reps Pea, like peer reviewing one another, or you know, building out like libraries and calls where new hires can go on like selfserve the information leverage in elms, right, and so it's about doing things ona regular basis within ten just building a structured program like, let's getaway from like the Monday lecture from sales, and then the other two big categoriesyou can started to drone on in this. Know, this is great. Yeah, the other the other two things I hear a lot are nothaving a stated opinion, right, and so if you hire folks and thenthey succeed or fail based on how good they are at sales, you're kindof doing yourself at this service. The best companies that I've worked with havea very defined point of view on all things, like what is our mission, what is our pitch? What is the talk track. What is ourmethodology? What do you own the crm?...

Like? What emails, what customerface and content do we send to people? And having it all really, really locked down in a way that it's consumable, it's bite size andit's where the reps needed. So like, for example, I leverage Guru toput my knowledge base for my sellers inside of sales or some inside agmail, inside about reach and everywhere in my seller might go. They haveaccess to the information like when they need it, where they need it.So that's a big, big piece. And then the final piece of thefrontline manager. Like this happens all too often. Right, you're the topsellers, you get promoted to manager and then you revert to what you knowand and so they go work deals, right, they take over deals andmaybe they give some like advice and passing right after a call. But thesefrontline managers were not on board in the right way, they were not trainingthe right way. They never been coaches or teachers of their life. They'rejust good. I sees. They get promoted to management and you don't goinvest in them again, you don't send them back to school, you don'ttell them they have a new job right and they revert to what they know. They just go coach deals again. You really have to invest in thislayer of frontline managers because otherwise, again it's the head of sales with thehead of enablement kind of screaming up to the reps how to do it,but no one's out there after reinforcing it and making sure that reps understood it. Yeah, it's so good to hear you say that. I've seen thathappen a number of times. It even happened to me in a different rolelike this, this situation where the top performer, or a really good performernow is it becomes the managers responsible for five or ten or fifty other people, but it's a completely front job. PT Job has little to no relationship. I mean, the one thing I prided myself on in that transition myself. So I try not to ask people to do things that I'm not willingor able to do myself. Obviously helps that they've been in that seat.They've been there before. They can coach to it. They know what tolisten to when they're listening to the recordings and and what to feedback. Butthe whole rest of the job isn't the same job at all. It's noteven close. It's not even close. Like they say, the best,the best players, don't always make the best coaches. This is no different. Right, the best spellers do not always make the best managers. It'sa different personality, it's a different set of responsibilities and you could do itright. You're a high performer. You can probably learn new things, butnot if we don't tell you to right, right, and it's give this thingI've experienced with maybe an upandcoming, solid performing employee, whether it bea salesperson or another one. Is it they maybe think that that is whatthey should do. Like that is the next logical step. I should.You know, I'm killing my numbers. I'm have been at the worst I'veperformed in the past twelve months is a hundred and twenty percent of quota.My next step is I should become a sales manager. But a lot oftimes maybe you shouldn't. To your point, I'm not a really on a lotof really honest conversations with with ICS and my team over the years anda lot of times I'm giving him advice to leave the company if that's what'sright for them. And they think the only path for them is to nowmage and SNB team. Right. Well, maybe the right for them is gobe an enterprise seller and and to do that they might have to leaveyour organ and so I'm really invested in what's right, invest for the peoplethat I work with, because these relationships mattered to me. And so nowI don't think management is always the next step. I think that there aresome other things you might do when you're selling career before you try to godown that path. I think we owe to the people that we work with. You know, no one's going to retire at bomb bomb or at course, like no one's going to retire here, right, and so let's let's givethem the life that they want and you know, believe it or not, of the reward you more, and then you might think it's great.I always ask this question of people who are so steeped in their area ofexpertise as you are, because you know, one of my goals on the podcastis to create better alignment and more open conversations, specifically across marketing,sales cs, but really throughout the organization. Is there anything that you wish moremarketers or customer success professionals understood about sales, the practice of sales oranything like that. Is there really like if you could be in a roomof marketers and or a room of customer success or customer service professionals? Weare a few things that you wish more of them new or understood about whatyou and your team are trying to do...

...every day. Don't you get mein trouble. You can. The first thing I would probably say so much. I appreciate them and rely on them and we're a team and I willnot throw stones here. Oh, I think there's a I think there's abit of a misunderstanding a lot of times with with folks that it not runsales teams and they may say this program makes a ton of sense or thisdecision is really obvious. Why don't they just do it? And I thinkthat there's a bit of a lack of understanding how challenging, challenging it canbe to change the behavior of an entire team of people who were probably interviewed, tested to make sure they have the personality profile. That is not easyto change. And so we hire sellers because they're headstrong, determined and theytake have a short memory when it comes to failure and they're confident and theyhad conviction in their beliefs and then we say hey, I sent them amemo. Why aren't you doing it my way now? And it's really noteffective. And so I think the one thing that other departments could do whenworking with sales is just think about that a little bit and let's think abouthow many times you have to tell someone something before they really learn it allthe different ways you can support and enrich and enable them to do that,versus just saying well, we announced it at the Monday meeting, so what'swrong now? Great, I love it. Yeah, it was the fourth bulletplay in that email with eighteen bullet points and I don't know how youmissed that. Yeah, right, but just to be clear, for cannon, for Natalie, I'm absolutely in love with working with you folks. Thatwouldn't change it that. I think we have a great relationship. That's good. I just yeah, even they're just, you know, they're we're off inour corners sometimes, as good as we are about working across across teams. I think what you offered there was really was really helpful. This hasbeen great. It's loaded with fast facts and useful information if you are tryingto build a team or improve sales enablement. I encourage you to listen to summerall of this episode again or check out the overview that I'm going toput up at bombombcom slash podcast. And before I let you go this afternoon, Joe, I would love to know a couple things from you. First, I love to give you a chance to think or mention someone who's hada positive impact on your life or career and a chance for you to givea shout out to a company that you really appreciate, a respect for theway that they deliver and experience for you as a customer. Got It.I want to thank Fred show mover from insight squared. I was in manufacturingsales when I met him about a decade ago and I joined his company asin playing number nine, and he took a shot on me and he gaveme opportunities that maybe my resume didn't warrant, and I know I earned it.I know I worked really, really hard for him. I got somegood results for him, but I wouldn't be where I was today if itweren't for him. He's one of the more caring and oil and he's apersonal friend of mine and he came to our wedding and he cooked dinner forus the night before, for a hundred and fifty of our guests, andit really meant a lot to me and work friends for life. So that'snow one person. That said, he sounds like an awesome guy in agreat chef apparently, and it really ties back to what you were saying before, right like you weren't going to retire it insight squared, but you know, the time and investment trust that he putting you in, the opportunity heput in front of you is just obviously a lifelong value and benefit. Sogood. How about a company that you really that's top of mine for yougot it. So I met my wife at insight squared. She ran eventmarketing while I ran the sales team, and US problem solving together is wherewe really got to know each other other. And I'll promote her new company.I don't know if people have heard of it or not, that sheworks at a company called a WS or Amazon, and the one thing thatI will say about a ws has she came home during her on boarding andon a daily basis commented just how customer obsessed, customer centric they are andthey preach it all the way through, and she said it's at a pointnow where if there are two people in a room at and Amazon debating ortrying to work their way through a through a hot topic, at some pointsomebody in the room will always say will what's best for the customer, andthat's the trump card and that's what they go with. And so they liveit and they really really subscribe to it and no BASOS sustainments for talking aboutit all the time. The customer obsession...

...and customer first behavior is really importantto me and I really think they exemplify it. Really do so good inthis this link between the employee experience, where it's very obvious that this isa real value. It's not lip service. Is what begets an excellent customer experience. Joe, this has been awesome. If someone wants to follow up withyou or connect with you or with chorus, where would you send anyone? Yeah, I mean I'm Joe Cap Software. On twitter I'm Joe Caprioand Linkedin I'm Joe AD Corus. Not Ai. Check our stuff out.We do some good content. We just release the state of conversation intelligence.It's on our website. We took like three hundred of our most famous customersand five million of their sales calls and we started to analyze them to findbenchmarks of like, you know, what does it take a winn a dealor lose a deal, and how many questions are your top sellers at skiingand and then you can actually slice and dice the analysis free based on yourICEP or your, you know, target audience or whatever, and it's really, really powerful. So that to go to for USCOM and look for theState of conversation intelligence report or hit me on any one of the channels.Like we all we all live in the same places here. So awesome.Thank you so much for your time. I have two new items on thetop of my to do list this afternoon. One is to go follow you ontwitter. We're already connected on Linkedin, and I need to go check outthat report and share with some folks that I work with. Excellent youcan. Thank you so much, man. I really, really do love talkto you that. I Love Your Company, so thanks for having me. Thank you so much. You're listening to the customer experience podcast. Nomatter your role in delivering value and serving customers, you're interesting. Some ofyour most important and valuable messages to faceless digital communication. You can do better. rehumanize the experience by getting face to face through simple personal videos. Learnmore and get started free at bomb bombcom. You've been listening to the customer experiencepodcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to theshow in your favorite podcast player or visit bomb bombcom. Thank you so muchfor listening. Until next time,.

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