The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

54. Unlocking the Science of Video w/ Vanessa Van Edwards


Today, we’re talking about how people work. It’s no understatement to say that knowing how people think and what makes them tick is a must for everything from making sales to just holding conversations that uplift both sides.

I was incredibly excited to talk to Vanessa Van Edwards, Lead Investigator at Science of People and bestselling author of Captivate: The Science of Succeeding with People

In this episode of The Customer Experience Podcast, we chatted about 3 types of people, why video is so important, how Vanessa still challenges herself to be authentic after 12 years on YouTube, and ways to open and close conversations. This episode is not to be missed for anyone who’s ever had to make boring small talk or wanted to know how to develop deeper connections faster.

What we talked about:

  • Video produces oxytocin
  • Video takes practice
  • Dump the script when you’re recording
  • Ways to open and close a conversation

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

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And so you want to be more clear, you want to more memorable, if you want people to enjoy what you're actually saying, the easiest, quick at way to it as a snap on the video. That's it. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte Hey. Today we're talking about how people work, insights into how we can connect and communicate more effectively with our customers, our future customers, are team members and everyone else who matters in our businesses and in our lives. I've got for you a best selling author and the lead investigator at science of people. She's developed a science based framework for understanding different personalities to improve our Eq and help us communicate with all those people I just mentioned. She's the author of captivate, the science of succeeding with people. It's a book that many of us have read here at bombomb and it's even one that we give away as gifts, because so many of the lessons are transferable to video. She consults companies large and small. She produces great content on our website and on her youtube channel and is earn massive traffic as a result, approaching thirty million views on that channel. By the way, my guest today is Vanessa Van Edwards. Welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thanks for having me, happy to be here. Good. Yeah, I'm so glad we could put this together. We did connect in person, one, two, once, which is something I can't see about all of my guests, and so this it's good to see you again. So, before we get into customer experience specifically and then the science of people, you recently moved from Portland, Oregon to Austin, Texas. Talk a little bit about that. I'm guessing that somewhere in that process of planning and executing this transition for your family that there may have been some really good customer experience stories or some horror stories like talk about that transition. Yeah, so you know, it's funny. I read a really amazing book which I can't recommend highly enough. It's by Richard Florida. It's called a WHO's your city and I read this book maybe a decade ago now, right when I first came out, and it talked about the personality of place and it made you realize that even cities have a kind of customer experience. Right, every place has a personality. So I'm born and raised in Los Angeles, which has a kind of unique customer experience. Los Angeles is likes to feel like it's really the best of the best. It's a little sexy. No, I'll sen us is a pretty cool place. Everything has to be super cool and casual and California attitude, but also exclusive and hard to get into, and I was a little tired of all that effort. A little tired of all that effort. It's my husband. I moved to Portland Oregon. Totally different kind of customer experience Port Little Oregon. You...

...can disappear there and be a wonderful introverted author and have no one messed with you and just ask what kind of tea would you like? That book right if that's the only experience. But people really keep to themselves and there's this joke about kind of the friend freeze where people feel like they have enough friends. I think that's definitely the case instead of northwest a little bit where people are kind of keeps themselves. Last movie we did it as to Austin, Texas, and Austin has it's so hospitable. I mean Austin is like this, its own kind of company and they're all about bringing new people. So so far I found that they're extremely that southern hospitality is there, but also that hustle. So it's been kind of a fun experience to see the different personality each city. Awesome, good. I hope you're settling in well and gets interesting the personality of place. I'M gonna have to check that book out for sure. So let's go to where I always start our proper conversation, which is your thoughts or your observations or your definition of customer experience. So I think customer experience is how someone thinks and feels about your brand before interacting with it, while interacting with it and after interacting with it. So for us, for example, for signs of people, I know that if someone opens up their calendar and they see science of people office hours, because we have office hours for our students, they're having a customer experience with me even from that calendar invite before I even turn on my office hours, for I even take a question, and they of course also have a customer experience with me when they're on office hours with me and they have experience afterwards. Whatever I leave them with, the feeling that they have after we hit and on zoom or and on our video calls, as I think that's what it is. It's not just your experience with your customer, it's actually how they think and feel that you before and after. That's so good. That ties to a lot of really good definitions I've heard in asking that question to many people. You know, you cover the entire life cycle from before they connect with you to after, and it's the thoughts and the feelings and then ultimately, of coast of course, those turn into the stories. You know that those thoughts and feelings turn into the you know, the horror stories on social media or the positive online reviews or the referrals and all those other things. So talk a little bit about signs of people on the home page. There's just a really great statement that speaks to me personally and I think it's going to tea up a lot of our conversation. Here's the best version of you is a powerful, charismatic, authentic communicator. How does that relate to science of people and tell folks a little about a little bit about what you're trying to do with that organization, the various ways that you serve people. Yeah, so I am, I like to joke I'm are, a covering, awkward person. People skills just never came naturally to me and I realize when I was on this journey to try to bounce out my Peq. You know, growing up I was all the Iq, sa t scores, GPA, every number, you know, transcripts, and then I realized very quickly when I... into college that that was not the only that was not the most important part of the equation, that pq was as important as Iq. But what I found was that a lot of the resources out there were written by extroverts, even like the quintessential how to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie, or looking at all the soft skills courses that were out there, all the authors, all the teachers were extroverts and so typically their advice, when you boiled it down, was just fake being an extrovert to be able to make it. And I thought there has to be a better way. There has to be something different for people who are introverts or ambererts. I'm an Ambivert, I'm in between extrovert introvert. For us to be able to be charismatic and memorable and authentic, or should say charismatic memorable while still being authentic, but I don't have to fake being outgoing or bubbly or the life of the party if that's not me. And that's, I think, how you builong a relationships. And so I decided a there had to be better way, but also be was there any science? I remember reading how to win friends, to influence people, and thinking, is there any research behind this? A lot of it makes total sense from an instinctive perspective, but has there been any studies done on this? And so I started to do a big deep dive in the academic research. We have a database over twenty hundred studies that are favorite body language studies, Communication Studies, relationship studies that we pull from that begin to create a people skills framework that's for everyone. It's not just for extroverts. But we have three different people that we try to speak to. It Times people we really think about. This is our customers. We have three customers. The first customer is our adventurous introvert. It's someone who is introverted and they love it, they own it, but they want to be able to grow their career, meeting people, find their soul mates, get a raise, ask for a bonus and not feel horrible about themselves. And we have ambitious ambiverts. So those are very, very high achieving professionals who can dial it up sometime that they love being on stage but they hate pitches, or they love in bestor talks but they hate dating. There's like usually two or three things they love and two things they hate. And the last customer bucket that we have it we try to build a really nice experience for is our goal oriented extroverts. So these are extroverts who are incredibly talented with people skills, but they have to channel it. They're usually they go somewhere and they're there, are kind of all over the place, and so our goal for them is to figure out, what are your goals and how can we tie your exceptional people skills to them? So everything means he had sense people is gearing towards helping those three different types of customers so good. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most people listening are immediately wondering which type of Person Am I. Am I one of those three types of people. I'm also going to go out on a limb and assume because reading captivate with such an inner, active experience. You made it so fun and useful by having things that you can participate with throughout the book. Do you have an assessment or something that's going to help someone I...

...self identify? Yes, for sure. So we actually this is one of our most popular quizzes. We had a lot of quizzes on our website. Our most popular quiz is the amber quiz. So it's a science of PEOPLECOM amberer. Cool. So when someone reaches out to you, I'm going to guess this happens to you all the time. It happens to me from time to time in the work that I do, and it really lights me up and brings me back to life and reminds me why, you know, work laide and try hard and, you know, go an extra step now and then. So when someone reaches out to you and says, I saw you speak, or I watched your videos or I went through your course and this one thing that I learned changed everything for me. You know, what are a couple of those things when people reach out to you and say, Gosh, the work that you're doing is so useful and meaningful to me. Like, what are a couple like top tips for some of that just is driving by this. We're a couple things that have really connected with people that you can teach here briefly. Yeah, so actually that questions are really wonderful money thing. You're so good asking questions, because that was the question I asked myself while writing my Ted talk. So you have eighteen minutes and if you're offered a ted stage, I was offered a Tex London stage and if eighteen minutes to share something and I thought to myself, what are the things that I've been people have reached out to me about and said that changed my life or that tip I used over and over again? So one that the I based a lot of my ted x talk on was this idea that the brain looks for hits and not Missus, and this fundamentally change the way I think about people and when I started teaching it, I realized it was a sticky concept. So here's kind of how I think about it. Have you ever been to like a psychic or like a fortune teller and they say I'm there's someone important to you whose name starts with S, S, s right, and you think to yourself in your mind you literally go through like a Rolodex and you literally go sssss. You go through everyone in your life until you have the s person right and you go right, yes, I have S. his name is Scott. Yeah, the brain does that in every interaction all the time, and they do it with words and questions. So if you get together with someone you ask been busy lately, their brain is literally going to go through their life. Can Go busy, busy? Oh, yes, I was busy, I am busy. And because of that we are actually priming people or setting them up to think a certain way by the words we use and the questions we ask. And so if you open up a conversation with either or something negative like Ah, the traffic was terrible, wasn't it, you're literally asking that person to think through their brain terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible to yes, who's terrible? And mostly don't like to be competitional, so that, even if it wasn't terrible. They won't say, Oh no, not for me. And so if you're starting on the negative, you're actually asking their brain to be more negative. Or if...'re starting on autopilot, you're asking the brain to go to sleep. So if we're an interaction and I say so, what do you do where you're from? Great, great talking. You right, that's like every networking conversation. That question means. Well, it means while you're trying to get to know them, but you're actually telling the brain I don't want to talk about anything real. I want to keep it really safe and really comfortable. So let's just stay asleep. And so I think that the thing that, if I could do one thing in this world, it would be to help people wake up that. Can we walk into interaction, get on a video call, get on a phone call, open an email and just do something different. Don't ask how are you, don't ask what do you do? Don't start with something negative. That's a throwaway comment. Terrible traffic, terrible weather, so busy, so stressed, crazy season, right, which usually how we start those calls. But instead, can we take a moment, wake our brain up and say what's one good thing? I could say what's one good thing? So first thing about yourself, which is an amazing gift for your own brain, and maybe it's my Gosh, the sun is out and it's glorious right, like, can I just show you my view right now? Like it. It's a glorious, glorious, glorious you right, that really is. That's Super Nice. It's a glorious, glorious view. So I would say it's such a beautiful day. So that's one good thing for me. And then I can ask you one good thing. So what's one thing I can ask you, Ethan, or anyone listening that's awake. It's different. That's positive. I think you're giving the gift of being optimistic. It's great. I love that advice. And so just to translate that, I mean obviously I hope people connected with that right away. It obviously makes sense. I'm just coming off of a very big trade show event like last week, so there's a lot of this, like a lot of captivate stuff was alive for me and I was looking to ask like more interesting questions, to have more interesting conversation, where it absolutely it does. In fact, I'm going to before I let you go in a bit to ask you a question that came up between one of my team members and me that came out of captivate that we were expect he's been really working to do and I've been trying to to get better at myself. But when you're opening a sales call, when you're opening a customer success call, you're answering the phone or responding to a ticket, there's so many things we can do and you can actually, I'm going to guess that you can turn around someone's Day by heaving them in a different direction, because if they're on autopilot or if they're a negative or if they feel hurried or busier whatever, you can send them off in this other direction that it can really turn a day around and turn a moment around. You will see it on their face. I cannot tell you how many times I've been at trade shows or conferences or holiday parties whatever, and you you're with someone in there like that, you know they have their brain and they're like, so, how do you know the homes and you ask... have any amazing holiday traditions and they go oh, like you can literally see their brain wake up. You can see the dopamine of flowing through their face, throwing their flowing to their body. And, by the way, that's not just a nice thing, right. So yes, it's great to have positive conversations, it's nice to wait people of but this also benefits you. So every time. Dr John Medina found that when you produce dopamine for someone else, it actually creates the equivalent of a mental sticky note in their brain. In other words, we like being around people who give us pleasure, and so if I ask the question that something sparking, that person only has pleasure, but they also create a post it note in their mind that when they see my face, when they hear my name, when they see me at a party, their brain goes who that was good, I'm going to talk to her again. So this is also makes you more more memorable. I think it's the most authentic way to be more memorable. So good. It's actually sets up a transition for me. I want to ask you a little bit about video. It's something that we both are very passionate about, and you've been using youtube very successfully for what a dozen years or so? I'm going to guess that being able to put that stuff together by presenting in videos opposed to over the phone or through a typed out email or something else, probably conveyed some benefits. Talk a little bit about any of the science around video in, why you committed to it so long ago and what it's done for you. Yeah, so I joined Youtube in two thousand and seven like that's people. Let me to tell you. Imagine. So I just graduated from college, I went to emory university and I tell my parents I'm going to start a youtube channel. My parents were like, are you? What are you? Who are you tub I mean like literally, that was the approach to you to at first right, and I knew it was something special. I knew it was going to catch on. Everyone thought it was a fad, everyone thought it was going to go away, and now youtube is a certain engine. I mean it is the equivalent of Google, and so it's completely changed my business. And then I was very encouraged to read some science much later on. They want to know if oxytosin could be produced through video, and Oxytosin is the wonderful chemical bonding of connection. I to Tek a lot about it and captivate and they know that oxytosin happens. When we touched shake hands, hug, I five this funk, and also when we make eye contact. But they weren't sure if that happened over video and they found it. Yes, even through a little tiny dock that I'm looking at right now, through video, we can produce oxytosin and that was like it was like adding gasoline to the fire. For me, I was like, okay, we're already cooking, we're already you like like the the fire is there, I just want to ignite it. And so hearing that made me realize that video was the single best way for me to connect with my customers. It requires a level of vulnerability to get going. Now this... so long ago that you probably don't remember it, for your sire remember. Okay, well, so then go back there and maybe maybe color something around this. You know, with other folks. You know, as you I'm sure you're working with people who are aspiring to get a tedex stage and aspiring to be more comfortable really in their own skin in front of other people. Video, of course, is a little bit of a different dynamic than a networking event, than a tedex stage. You know, all these environments have their own unique qualities and characteristics and challenges, but speak a little bit to someone who's listening is like cash. That does sound really good. The oxytose and thing is interesting, but I just can't do that. Or I tried once and it sucked really bad. Give those people some hope and maybe tell them the story of an Awkward Youtuber in two thousand and seven. Oh yeah, so a couple things here. One is I started in two thousand and seven, but if you look at my channel you'll see that my videos don't go back as far as thousand and seven, and that's because I've hidden almost every video from two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine and two thousand and ten. So that's the first thing. Is Video is actually they can go away in a certain sense, right like when I send a video to someone, it doesn't have to be perfect and you can always do them over and I can always redo them. So it took me four years to get good at video. For years we'll start seeing videos on my channel. So it takes a while. This if you're not born with it. No one's born with it, and the metaphor that I give you is this. I have a sixteen month old daughter and she's learning how to eat the first time, like she's learning how to use a spoon, she's learning how you eats her with her hands, and I was watching her eat the other day with such Gusto and there was just food everywhere and she was loving it. And I thought to myself, you know, every single person I know, every adult I know, is an expert at eating. Expert I mean expert level. Every single person I know is great at cutting their steak and forking food in their mouth. They weren't in the beginning, and so what I say is anything good takes a little bit to learn. So, just like eating, I think that sometimes socializing in a different way or filming video or being charismatic or trying to find your voice, it takes a minute. Give it a minute. Yeah, and you don't need to go back to your authentic communicator from your home page. You know, you don't have to be this big, dynamic personality to be successful with you just have to be yourself, comfortable and confident in your own skin. Yeah, like if I if I tried to be Gary v Gary Manner Truck on my youtube channel, it wouldn't work. In fact, I can bet you that there are thousands of people who are trying to be like Gary V on their Youtube Channel and no one's watch them. I got on my intube channel and I was just Vanessa, not even Vanessa van Edwards, just Vanessa, and that works. The videos where I'm not myself, they don't do as well, and you can go look at my youtube channel and I'll give you some inside into it. So one thing I'm really struggling with right now.

Mytube channel very transparently the scripts. So I have a lot of content youtube. I want to get it right, I want to get it perfect, I want to deliver the best possible message statistics and charts and graphs and examples, which means I write these really long, amazing scripts. The problem is, is a script it's very, very hard to be charismatic, and so right now I'm trying to wean myself off of scripts. And the reason for this is because I looked at my youtube channel and you search on Youtube Channel, go to the most popular videos on Youtube Channel, you'll notice my most popular videos are the ones of me just talking to people. They're the ones of my news clips. They're not my talking head videos. So I think my top ten videos and this is what we discovered about it two years ago. My top ten videos are from six years ago and they're just me talking. Where is my most produced videos, with graphics and after effects and a script that took me five days to perfect it and music? They're not doing as well, and so I am trying really hard. My authentic communicator self is me actually just talking, which is still hard even after twelve years. I mean, Tobe Yep, it's a journey. We're all on it. So for those people who are, let's speak specifically to like someone who is doing customer potential customer calls right whether it's a support person or salesperson or somewhere else in the organization, but could even be hr you know, looking to potentially recruit or pull someone in or whatever you know they're doing. You know, we're doing a zoom call. You mentioned zoom before. I use zoom all the time. I A couple of my key team members are in other cities and so we just hang out and it's just a very natural, comfortable thing for us. But there are people listening to this right now that don't turn on the call or they're not using a video service for one of these synchronous calls. I'm going to go to a very specific thing. One of the things we lose, of course, is the rich nonverbal. This this eye contact is not really eye contact. I'm looking at you on my screen instead of looking directly into my Webcam. But you know, one of the really cool stats in there is that our brain gives twelve and a half times more weight to hand gestures, and so you don't have to be a big hand talk or just speak a little bit to what's missing. If I'm going to do this four minute phone call with somebody versus a four minute video call, what are some of the differences in the gaps their hand gestures or any other ones? Like argue to someone that they should probably turn their camera on that, by the way, I've been on that to that's I always find that super weird. Someone's on a zoom call with me but they don't turn their camera on, like, what's that about? Come on right, totally. So first let's dive into that stat. Twelve and a half times were powerful. So actually, when we're talking about that figure we're talking about nonverbal. So our nonverbal is just twelve and a half times more important than our verbal. And the reason for this is because if I were to get on this call and say yeah, I'm so happy to be here, you would absolutely know, even from my tone of voice and especially for my facial expression, I'm not so happy to be here. Where's I get on, I...

...say I'm so happy to be here and I smile and I have up to a big voice. Your brain believes my tone and my face more than the words, way more than the words, and so that's what they mean, is that we tend to know that our facial expressions are voice, tone, our body, our hand gestures. It's much harder to lie with those right. So like, for example, a game that I often play on stage, as I'll ask people to make the opposite hand gesture of what they're saying. That's really hard. You could try this me right now. So say I want to tell you three things, but hold up two fingers. I want to tell you three things. It's really hard to hold up the opposite number of what you're saying. That's because it's physically harder to lie with our nonverbal in our body. And so this is one of the reasons why video is so important, is because the other person's brain is having a harder time comprehending you, remembering what you say and believing what you say when they only have voice tone alone. When I'm able to say I have three things I want to tell you, you literally believe those three things more and you were more like to remember there was three things she had, because you see it right through just seeing it. Or if I if I say to you I have a really, really big idea, it's huge and I'm using my hands take up the whole screen, you're going to believe that more than if I say I have a really, really big idea, it's huge, holding my fingers super small. And so we're constantly using hand gestures to comprehend. And so you want to be more clear, you want to be more memorable, if you want people to enjoy what you're actually saying, the easiest, quickest way to do that is just to snap on their video. That's it. Great's exactly what I was hoping you would offer. Those really useful and I learned a couple things here too. So this is the fun nugget from captivate that I've been trying to implement. I had a great opportunity to do it last week ending a conversation on your terms, you know, like like grapping it up and putting a button on it. Talk about the importance of that and maybe a couple techniques there. Yes, okay. So actually one of our most viewed youtube videos is on the art of the graceful exit. So if you really struggle with this, I have a couple of very specific tips on how a graceful exit a conversation. So there's a couple things you can do to exit. My favorite is called the future mention. So I don't know how you tried this yet, ething? No, okay, so this is my favorite way of grace. B Eggs, and I have a whole bunch. If that's it, this is not your favorite. So a future mentioned. What happens in an interaction is you're here right, we're talking, we're talking, we're talking more, talking about this podcast, these listeners, these customers, like right here right, and so when you want to leave, your thinking about the future, and so it's very hard to be like good bye, see you later. And so a graceful transition is to mention something in the future. So we're talking, we're talking, and I say so even what are you going? What do you have anything fun plan this weekend? Also a good priming thing where something fun, because I'm even in his head goes fun, Fun, Fun, Fun, Fun, right. He's like literally searching for fun and he says, yeah, we have this...

...or you know what, I don't have anything fun, but I hope will some have something fun. So even if someone doesn't have something fun, so good question, and then I can say yeah, yeah, I'm so looking forward to it. Need too. I'm going to go to the Rose Festival this weekend with my daughter. I can't wait. Well, listen, because now we're already talking with the future, I can use that future mentioned as a jumping board for getting out of the conversation. So, yeah, I'm going to the Rose Festival with my daughter. I can't wait. Well, listen, I hope you have such a lovely time with your family then, and it was so wonderful speaking to you and I'll be sure, future mentioned, to follow up with you on linkedin email you. That thing sends that link and it was so good talking to you. Right. Yeah, so I always meant to ask the future question which you are genuinely interested and then use it as a springboard and talk about next steps and then it's like a very easy out. It's also it warms them up that the conversation is going to end in case they have one more thing they want to tell you. Love it so good and again, I think about a lot of this in a networking situation, but we find ourselves in conversations that need to end in a variety of scenarios. And so you've video to it where Yees, totally, it does. Just give me one more quick one, one more quick ending for gracile ending. Yeah, so graceful ending, any kind of follow up. So, like you're taught, you're chatting, your chatting, you're talking, but you mentioned something earlier than conversation, about this hilarious youtube video. I have to send them. So you're talking. Oh my gosh, listen, I have to remember. Wait, let me just get out my phone. I'm I gonna send you that really funny video. Okay, Aman, note for myself. This was so great, this is so great talking. I'm so glad we're at with the chat. I'm and send that video to you and I'll see you next time, right like. So you can actually circle back some and you brought up, as a reminder to yourself like. I'm a big fan of like literally, I'll bring my phone out and write a reminder of myself. Literally, I always have had a paper and a pen because I'm like, Oh, let me, that's so good, that's so good, that's so good. That just took us out of the moment, which is absolutely want. Right, I want. The whole point is you're using a prop to take you out of the moment, so then you can say this is so great, I'll see you next time. Really good. So this has been awesome. It was we could obviously go. We by the way, in captivate you leaned on a lot of the same research that Steve and I ended up leaning on and Rehumanize Your Business, and so when I read captivate, I was just immediately like we need to connect. So glad we could got together in person, got together for this conversation. I really appreciate your time and really appreciate your work very much. Before I let you go, I love to give you a few opportunities in the first one is based in our number one core value of relationships, and so this is your chance to think or mentioned someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and to give a shout out to a company that is really delivering a great experience for you as a customer? Sure. So I'll start off with the company that I think it's just it's just nails a on a customer experience. Ten years ago I got my genetics done by twenty three and me and ever since then I'm in a relationship with them. I've never...

...paid them since that one genetic test ten years ago, but we have a relationship because they have my genetics and they're continuously doing tests and they did this incredible job of I am constantly taking their surveys, looking at their email. I log in the portal all the time and one of my favorite things they do is they will offer a dopeomine hit in an emails. They'll say learn if you're predisposed to public speaking. I don't think of that email all day. Right, and then I take a little survey right which is like, do you like public speaking? Do not other those things. Since I was one of the early people for Twenty three me, I do a lot of service. So they got my dopamine. I to a little quiz, which I love, and then I found myself amazing customer loop but then what they do is like, a month later they say you contributed to big research. Thank you, which also makes me feel like wow, I took three minutes to that survey three months ago and it actually meant something. And so then they thank me with gratitude for taking that survey. It's an amazing loop. So twenty three and me. They just kill it like they just nail it. I have a great relationship with them and I haven't even paid them since and I would buy the way. If they offered another service, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Doesn't even matter what it was, I'd buy so good and a person. I would actually mention my good friend Zack Tuten. Zach runs brand new, which is an incredible social agency in Los Angeles. Zach was the first first person I ever knew at emery. He was a year older than me. Our parents knew each other and he kind of introduced me to everyone, who was really welcoming, really sweet, and we've stayed in touch ever since. Like he's just such a great friend, a great person to know. And then who knew that a year ago we actually hired his agency to help us all of our social media and so I just feel like sometimes you don't know relationship is going to go, but you just like someone and those are the best kind of people to have in your life. So if you have someone where like you think we're never going to work together, like we're what. I just like this person, that's the best kind of relationship to have. So good, such a great answer both of them, and that tea's up. My closer here, which is people enjoy this conversation. They want to check out some of those youtube videos or they want to connect with you on social where they want to follow up on science of people, maybe check out some of the coursework available or check out captivate. Where would you send any of those people? Sure, so I have captivate as wherever books are sold, Amazon and I read my own audible. So I had a really good time reading the audiobook, if you like audio books. And then the big one is signing up to our monthly insights. So every week I sent out a weekly win, which is either a new piece of research or a new video to our audience and our newsletters are pretty amazing and I know a little biased, and I said that, but a lot of people tell us it's something you look forward to most every Wednesday when they get it, so that signs peoplecom. Anywhere you sign up, you'll get it. Awesome, Vanessa. Thank you so much for your time, thanks for the insights and thanks for helping people succeed in building relationship with each...

...other more effectively. Thanks so much, even thanks some one for listening. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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