The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

58. Uniting Customers and Brands Through Experiential Marketing w/ Ruthie Schulder


Three experience-based goals are the foundation of an amazing agency that builds the concept of experience right into its name: The Participation Agency.

  1. Translating digital experiences into lived experiences.
  2. Creating remarkable, resonant experiences without abandoning data and analytics.
  3. Building affinity between customers and brands through experience.

The extreme laser-focus on experience obviously caught my attention, but as I learned more about The Participation Agency, I saw that its success can be credited to the dedication and energy of the two founders… one of whom I got to interview on The Customer Experience Podcast.

She’s been named Inc’s Millennial CEO Rising Star and one of Adweek’s Disruptors, one of 39 women leading a revolution in advertising, media, and tech, and she’s also the co-founder and CEO of The Participation Agency Ruthie Schulder.

We had such a great conversation about how experiential marketing builds brand awareness and ultimately relationships.

You’ll also hear about...

  • Experiential marketing
  • Definitions of placemaking and 360 marketing
  • Why it took hustle to build the agency
  • The experience Ruthie creates for her partners (clients)
  • Why you don’t really need an MBA

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To meet customer experiences. Sort ofthere, because you need to be talking about people have been different places ofwhere they are in their knowledge of the rather product of the service. Thesingle most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a betterexperience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and humanway. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte,translating digital experiences into lived experiences, creating remarkable, resonant experiences without abandoningdata and analytics, building affinity between customers and brands through experience. That's whatthe participation agency does for its clients, who they call partners, and theinclude names that you know like air, b andb, Amazon, red bull, Pandora, state farm and many more. Our guest today is the cofounder andCEO of the Participation Agency. She's been named inks millennial CEO, risingstar and one of add weeks disruptors, one of thirty nine women leading arevolution in advertising, media and tech, ruthie shoulder. Welcome to the customerexperience podcast. Thank you so much for having the Amazon sites in he here. Yeah, I'm looking for the conversation because what you're doing with experience isI feel like you've built the agency around it, where a lot of theother folks, I'm talking within myself, you know, we're trying to figureout how to raise up the importance of experience with our organization. So I'mlooking for to the conversation. But before we get going in earnest, youknow as reading a lot of the press about you and about the agency andabout your cofounder, and you know, some of the headlines about the workthat you do include words like outlandish, avant garde, crazy, whimsical.Like. How do you feel about that? Like, from your perspective, areyou doing things that are outlandish or whimsical or like? How do youview the work that you do at a high level? Yeah, I thinkthat we come up with like out of the box creative strategy. It's definitelyunique. I think that there are a lot of iterations of the same thingthat typically happen within my industry, and so we definitely push ourselves of constantlybe coming up with projects that I've never written done before. I think whimsicalsand maybe a little bit too fluffy of a word, but I we certainlydid a lot of pride in the fact that we've built experiential platforms that arecompletely know the industry. It's something we definitely take really seriously because it challengesus as entrepreneurs also to constantly be questioning the status quone, to constantly besaying what seems a little bit risky from both the creative perspective but also alittle bit from, you know, kind of a business perspective or from themarketing perspective, but taking very, very calculated risks and buildings strategies around themso that we know that we're injured as an idea that maybe new, butwe're setting it up for success from the...

...get go, no matter what.Really Smart, calculated risk is the thing that that goes with me and inthis idea of doing things that haven't been done. Let's start where I alwaysstart, which is when I say customer experience to you. What does itmean? Thoughts, characteristics, definitions? What is customer experience? Yeah,and it's a great question. I was I've listened to a lot of yourother podcast and I think a lot of the guests are in a little bitmore of like a tactical role where they're really interact their brand is really interactingwith customers at a point of sale. Our approach is actually very different becausea lot of the work that we do and building out these experiential campaigns area lot more about brand awareness, and so I think also a big differentiatorfor us is that I think typically customer experiences like existing people who already knowabout you, that you already have in the door who are connecting with you. You know they're buying something, they're close to buying something, they've justbought something. We are come at it from a different approach because our goalis to engage the people who already know about our brands but also are reallyare even bigger. Goal is to raise a brand awareness and to get lotsof new people to come in so to meet customer experiences sort of Eric,because you need to be talking about people at the different places of where theyare in their knowledge of the brand, of product, of the service youknow it. I see I spending a lot more time on linked in thepast couple years or so and I'm seeing a lot of common versations where there's, you know, there's some pushback on branding and brand awareness because sometimes it'sdifficult to measure Roi I assume that the people that come to you and whenthey come to you as as partners with your agency, that they already appreciatethe value of brand awareness. But you know, to someone that's like,you know, we need to put our money into some place that we cansee very clear and direct and obvious. Row, I. Typically at thepoint of sale, like you know, I need to see conversion rates,all the other like really specific things. Can know what's your position. Sowe do all of that. We do both. We don't trust you randawareness. We have a really big client right now who huge. You know, come from an that's a subside huge company, and they have really,really, really aggressive metrics to get, you know, a millionaire downloads ontheir digital product. And so what we're working with them to do is howdo you build a strategy that has like twelve different touchpoints where you have yourbig brand awareness moments for people who are, you know, running through Times Squareand need to get the hit of like what is this company? Whatis they're offering in the two seconds that they have in they're passing it allthe way down to when you have your captive audience, how are you makingsure that you're not only getting them to download the product but that they're actuallyunderstanding what it is? And then you kind of fell that in that spectrumall across. And so we really were talking to people at these different pointsof kind of like attention. But the metric is very clear, like amillion dollars allows two thousand and twenty, and like we are, we're goinglike all cylinders fired of what it's going... take to get that done,because you can't do just one. Honestly, you can't even do just like twoor three, like you have to have a very wide range of approachwhere every single thing, let's say you have ten points on your on yourlittle chart there, they all have a very specific purpose and you're using themall together to create the some of the parts out of your marketing campaign.So as you're designing twelve touch points, how do you view those? Soat first of all, I love this idea that the clients has. Thisis my problem, this is the outcome I need. I'm going to engageyou in your team to figure out how to get there. And then youtackle it from there. So when you design eight hundred and twelve fifteen touchpoints in a campaign like this, how do you think? Like do youmap those? They're probably there, they're multiple layers or they sequential? Howmany of them are like these five could be the first touch and then we'regoing to move to this thing, or like how do you view it?Like I'm trying to see a visual map in my head made up. Somaybe even a little bit more contact. So we are an experiential marketing agency, so everything that we do is rooted in some form of live experience that'sbeen very heavily amplified by digital experience and we very much have these tenants ofexperiential, digital and influence. Are All working together to create what we call, you know, like our digital feedback loop for customers. Of once youknow, you see them in your in your fur walls, but then youobviously don't forget about them. What are you doing to keep them in theloop? In the loop, and will look at it from like a twelvemonth period. So that does a little bit of context of what we knowis successful in terms of business type of campaign. We always start with ahigher level creative platform. So, whereas a lot of experiential teams are focuson like the activation, we don't throw events, we build platforms and arerooted in experience. So we always have a high level of you know,here's the creative idea, here's the rallying cry, here's the thing that aconsumer sees that gets them to understand a little bit about you and your voicethrough the name, the visual identity where they seem sort to show up.And then under that there are the different players. So maybe you have youryou know, your top three temple events, where you're, you know, creatingsomething totally custom and unique and you're welcoming people in. Then you haveyour social media campaign and you're aligning with people of influence to come to thoseevents and start they act the drumbeat of conversation that goes on and on.Then maybe you're sponsoring existing events where you're getting Twentyzero people here and Thirtyzero peoplehere and you're creating an experience that is a an extension of the platform thatyou've already built that people have started to recognize, and you show up thereand specific ways with messaging that's right for that audience. And then you kindof keep going from there. We look at it really sort of, let'sjust say say a twelve month period, and we're constantly looking to see howdo you create a real kind of like...

...up and down type of relationship withcustomers where there's always something for them to grab on to, but it doesn'talways have to be the biggest thing, that's not always going to be thesmallest thing, but you really want them going through a journey with you wherethey understand who you are and what you're offering is and they see it.They're just see it showing up in different places and then the experience maybe helpscreate, I would assume, by design, evokes the feelings that you want tobe associated with those, you know, those visual marks in the other ideas. Yeah, I mean they all really have to work together, forsure. I mean it's all about pressing the message and the way that webuild our cored of platforms, as we were very we're very big on theidea of that people have to be able to digest something within like three seconds. Like if you if you say if you can't say it to somebody intwo sentences and have them understanding one hundred percent, it's not going to workbecause you're just not getting enough of people's attention and, like, I can'tever put onto a customer to do the work, to just still down,and I'm trying to tell them it has to be very, very straightforward,and so it's a challenge or come up with the right thing is. Butwhen we know we have it, we know we have it and those arewhere they're really, really successful campaigns come from. Great in doing in readingup about you and about the agency and on your website, Linkedin, etc. I saw a few words that I'd love for you just to give alittle bit of a definition to. The first one is place making. Yes, so we are one of, I think, the only agencies that's reallygoing out and proactively going into tertiary markets to do activations or launch programs.Were and we had a projects film PASM, for two years. We've been inAsbury Park, New Jersey, Jersey City. We are really really beingon this idea of that cities and town and emerging towns have some of themost incredible energy across the US and from a business perspective and from a culturalperspective, we feel that not engaging those people and these areas are our hugemiss in a lot of ways. So what we mean by place making isgoing out and really doing our due diligence and saying what are these areas ofthe country that we feel are really on the rise and really kind of needa little bit of marketing help, to be honest, like brands come tous to make their products and their identity is relevant in culture, either forthe first time or again when they're going throughout, you know, a rebirth, and so we're doing the same thing with certain markets and we really believethat these cities are changing and evolving no matter what. And when I'm whena group of people come together and put intention behind that you can create,it's something really, really, really magical, and that those opportunities don't come alongvery often. You know, the...

...voery in your city is only getthree invented ones or twice. You know, once a city really has an identity, it's a very hard to go in reframe that. And so we'reconnecting with developers and governments and, you know, city officials to any placesthat we love, that we think are really amazing, that we know theywant to have a little bit more shine of the map. And saying howcan we bring our marketing expertise and are some of our attention grabbing projects toyour areas? Awesome? This just kind of a softer question, but youknow, are these as regards to specific cities, because I saw I sawone of your press pieces that listed a couple of those cities in a handfulof other ones. Are these things that you feel intuitively or these things thatyou're you're getting feedback from, like, how do you identify some of theseplaces that have a really good opportunity to be made? So it's both.We have a music program that I'm sure you read about, called for thosewho tour, where we have a series of homes across the US for musicianson tour, Sayer, free and exchange for social contents. So when wewere opening up our some of the new houses a few years ago, wewanted to go into new markets and so we looked at actually a musicians tourroute and we said, if you're a touring musician in America, what arethe twenty cities that we know you're going to stop and along the way?And then, of those twenty cities, we went and we either spoke topeople who you know, it's been a lot of time there and got somefeedback and then we went and we looked at like the top five and wewere like, what are the ones that intuitively resonate with us, where wesay we have a gut feeling from the people were meeting here, from thebusinesses that we're seeing, from the care of the city councilman, from thePhilanthropists of the community who really, really are committed to making this a successfulstory. Then we use our intuition and our knowledge and our feedback and ourstatistics, all of that to really come together love it. It sounds likea microcosm of the whole spirit of what you're doing with the participation agency ata high level. I saw this three hundred and sixty and fearless marketing.So for us, for experiential, a lot of people have it in thebox where it's an event or it's an end, it's an activation and yougo and it's three days and you go for an hour and like that's it. That is not our approach to experiential. We don't think that that makes forsuccessful marketing campaigns. We also don't think that's sustainable from a resource perspective. It's very expensive and it's very wasteful and you're just not following up withpeople who have already come into your space and you know that they want tobe marketed to. So we build out three hundred and sixty campaigns that havethe live experience component but have a huge digital strategy around it and an influencerpiece as well to make sure that you're hitting whatever you need to hit interms of your success symetric. So that's what I mean by three hundred andsixty fearless marketing. Yeah, so I come from like, I have avery, very entrepreneurial spirit, as does... business partner, and we've reallybuild our company on that and taking the calculated risks like they were talking about, and we have been really, really, really lucky and finding fearless marketing partnersand giant corporations all over the world who are really vision oriented and whowill push and push and push and will maybe not be the most popular personin the room, but really fight for an idea that they believe in,that we all believe in. And you know, I think fearless marketing isreally just maybe the way to say being an entrepreneur in a giant corporation.So let's let's switch gears to that a little bit. So you founded thecofounded the agency in two thousand and eleven, almost a decade ago, like septthe scene for us like, what was the agency model at the time? What was the client experience and how are you kind of improving that orputting an evolution or an innovation on to that? What was the text seemlike? What were some of your earlier campaigns compared to what they are now? I know that's a lot of questions, but the scene for us like,you know, founding and then maybe how that differs from from what you'redoing today. Sure, I'll just refle on that, please. Questions.So Jessica and I met at ny a business school. Were both getting ourNBA's and we both have these entrepreneur backgrounds and everyone else was going into theshining corporate jobs and you're like that's not us. Let's start something we knowwe're going to start seeing anyways. Stop fighting it. And we watched theagency and it was two of US sitting around a small table and a tinyroom that's a third of the size of our current office. The just sheand I share and we're, you know, almost thirty people full time now.So the growth has been really awesome and neither of US have agency backgrounds, which I find very free and very liberating because if anybody offered me ajob to go work at a traditional agency, I would say now. So wehave been really building our company to be a service, you know,a marketing service business in a way that we think is the right way tobring that into the world. We honestly got a lot of our earlier projectswe were brought up through other agencies who needed extra support and then we realizereally fast that our ideas were really good and they were resonating. We werefast, our production was fast, our idea generation was really fast. Wewere able to bring in the right collaborator. So, you know, all clientsreally want to tap into culture and we live in New York, welive in Brooklyn, we know a lot of artists, know a lot ofchefts and a lot of musicians. We were able to really bring in theright people that were in our network and we executed really well and being ableto Meld our creative side and our strategic side with our like NBA bringings.We don't do things that don't work,...

...because we're ambitious marketers and because wedon't want to waste any of our clients dollars. All sort of laddered upto US having success early on and being able to really build a business.And then, in terms of some of the other tech companies were doing,I mean, for me the most relevant thing to talk to is that alot of our friends started tech companies and started raising money and for a hotsecond we were like, maybe we should lunch a product, that maybe weshould raise money, and we decided not to. And you know, agencymodel is really tricky and I don't have that all sorted out for sure,but I'm so happy that I didn't raise any funding. A lot of ourfriends are kind of still really stressed out ten years later about it, andso that was a really, really big decision for us to know that thatwould not be our path. Yeah, let's go a little bit deeper intothat. I mean, like Bombomb, you the participation agency hit the inkfive thousand, although I think you were in the three hundreds. We werein the six hundreds. Some congratulations have that. Yes, so just goa little bit deeper into that growth story and maybe some of those funding considerationsand because there's so many obviously paths to growth. But just go a littlebit deeper into some of that kind of the story of the growth of theagency. Sure, so for the first couple of years we were really slowly. I think until you're four, we were seven people, you know,and we got there so slowly. And then we locked one of our biggestclients who fortunately not a lot to say, but they're huge company and our mainclient there is a fearless leader and if you're those marketer and he reallyencouraged us to grow our team and he would, you know, we wouldgrow the revenue stream and we would grow the team, but sometimes you growthem first and we would just have faith that it would come and that reallygot us to be a lot less apprehensive. I think about growth that way.And then in terms of revenue growth, we hustle. We hustled, youknow, we taught ourselves how to be really, really good salespeople andwe get new clients and we also keep clients and that's a two prompt ofwe do good work and they like working with us. You know, we'revery service oriented. They like hanging out this to we really approach. We'rethought partners. Were really were not as executor. So we have lots ofconversations about vision and mission and how do you get their iterations of creative andall of that, and so it's been a very, very organic growth andone of these. You know, I have a close friend who did atext start off any raise a ton of money and it didn't go his wayand he said to me just a couple of months ago it really resonated withme. He said, you know, I looked at you and you didn'tskip any of the steps, like you built it brick by brick and thenyou got to keep adding more and more bricks and that's really that was reallyawesome to hear because you know, when you're in it it's hard to seeit that way, but it feels sustainable...

...because we didn't skip any of thesteps. It's great. I have a couple follow up questions on that.One is, you know, so when you went from seven to whatever thenext level was, let's say ten or fifteen or twenty, how are youorganized? So that's one question. I guess I'll just ask that one questionat a time. Yeah, you know we have our senior leadership team,I mean our we're only about thirty people full time, so it's still prettyflat and all of our teams are very I don't know, I'm going tosay cross functional, but we have a lot of people who are working ona lot of different projects and we also have an incredibly, incredibly collaborative teamand respectful team, and that really helps. But we have our, you know, two decatives on top and then we have our senior leadership and thenunder that there's a the same about very much hierarchy. So we have somewhatof a flat structure. I would say. Do Do you and your cofounder,Jessica, take primary responsibility for like, I guess, Opportunity Generation in sales? Yes, yeah, we actually just hired our first BIS DEP personin the history of the agency a month ago. We've been doing in ourselvesand that's honestly something that I really lead the charge of in a lot ofways. She does like creative and production. I'm client relations and business development,but we also are constantly thinking together about how you grow the business,because there's a thing that I that I love about our company is that wehave our client side of the business, but we're constantly growing our business indifferent ways. Like we have our own experiential Ip which we, you know, like took that risk in doing and creating and was has been really,really successful. And like those are things that were constantly, constantly ideating together. Of sure, we can talk about how to get a new clients orwho goes and does that pitch meeting, but really the thing that's going toget us this exponential growth are coming up with these non agency model concepts ofhow do you build a business doing things that we know how to do reallywell, really smart approach is, let you what can we best in?This is classic, I guess Hedgehog Concept would be the business school term,like, you know, what do we like doing, what can be bestin the world at and what does the world need? Yeah, I thinkthat's the I think those are the three things that overlap. But it's soit sounds like you're tackling that well from a client perspective. So you designexperiences to help brands and companies engage with their customers and potential customers. Howdo you think about the experience of working with the participation agency, like whatdo you want in your intentional about the language to, which is interesting.Their partners, not clients, talk about that. What are you trying tocreate for them? Number one is, like we want to make our liveseasier. Right, like, especially in the way that we do in production, there are a lot of messy parts and they're hiring us to be anextension of their team, to be thought partners, but to take a lotof the work off of their plates so that they could focus on other thingsand they can focus on can the buy... internally and all of that.And so we when we, when I say that we're very service oriented,we make ourselves available. We also really care about the work. Just goand I as founders, care about the work. We don't take out projectswe don't care about because then we won't do a good job. And sowhen somebody calls me, a client calls me, and they want to talkabout it, I love talking about it because I really really wanted to besuccessful. It's like it's not it's not just a number for me on aspreadsheet. Like I every piece for us should be a portfolio piece and ifit's not, we're all failing. And so we really care, we takeit seriously and you know, we've our team. We have nice people thateverybody wants staying out with, and I think you really hit some magical momentsin client services when people genuinely want to like get dinner after a long dayon site and knowing that they can rely on us and a lot of differentways, from a business perspective, from a production perspective, from a socialconnection perspective, really is a big deal. And then, of course, ourcreative is really good and we do flaw us work. Honestly, ifour work wasn't good, none of the relationship stuff wouldn't matter. All ofit has to be like really on point. Yeah, I some of the stuffyou said. They're you. Obviously you care a lot. You doreally good work. You're very intentional about what you do and don't. Doyou invest in real relationships with people? Do you, this is a littlebit of a personal question, do you divide work from network? Like like, I feel like someone like you might always be working. How did Ilike? How does that? How do you manage that for yourself, becauseyou're so invested in it? I'm definitely always working, for sure, butI don't mind it because I like I got into a place in my companyand through a lot of work with my own executive coats that they work with, of not letting certain things be stressful. Like I used to go on vacationand say, well, I have to delete my gmail APP because there'sno I can see a work email and I'm like whatever, like this.It's all great stuff. I you know, I have small toldren and so I'mtrying to be a lot more careful about not checking my phone when I'mwith them, because they're old enough now that they it matters that they notice, and so I had up for me, like I want to be more presentwith them, and so I need to have the self control of creatingsome sort of separation. But I think those are for me. Work meansa lot of different things, like, yes, there's a client day today or there's a project daytoday, but like being able to build a businesswhere the sky is the limit and it's literally just going to getting to makeall of the decisions, we have nobody else to answer to, is thedream of life. And so being able to spend an extra fifteen minutes inthe shower once because I'm in the middle of a really amazing brain storm andI have an idea and I was like that's genius, like I gotta letthat germinate for a little while, and... be able to think about thatand bring that back is so much fun. Like I I'm so honored. I'mlucky that I get to do those kinds of things. So you know. All that being said, mostly inspite, soon as I put my kids tobed, I'm so tired and it's my brain won't allow for any work, no matter how hard I need to get things done. So you havethat too. It's good. I'll add gratitude to the list. It soundslike a really healthy and privileged opportunity that you've the gratitude you have around itis is important. I can't believe we have to have this conversation in twothousand and twenty, but we will because it's important to you and you andJessica have also done some work with let's work talk about women in business onewide. Why is this a conversation in two thousand and twenty? What aresome of the impediments to having a more balanced professional environment and what kind ofwork are you doing around that? There are two as I want to enterthe impediments question. One is that I think that so many amazing women sortof in similar places to me in their career or younger, are realizing nowthat doesn't have to be the way that it was for the generation before us, and I think so many of us are at the precipice of this likegiant awakening. But the impediment is that we it's a lot of hard workto do. You Program yourself from the crap that was sent to you andyou were sixteen, you know, coming from your mother's coming from all themagazines, coming from everything that we were exposed to, because, you know, twenty years ago it was a completely different story and when we were beingraised the messaging was really messed up. I mean a lot of it isstill really messed up. It was really messed up. So all of uswho were, you know, grew up reading team, you know, cosmopolitan, have a lot of retraining of our brains to do and I think thatjust from like on a more personal individual level for all of us, ifyou don't have the right support around you to say that thing you keep tellingyourself as fake and totally messed up, and it's on all of us touplift each other out of these really toxic patterns. I think that's a reallybig thing that I see happening with a lot of people but, of course, is not happening to and that's a huge impediment because you can have opportunityin your in your business life all day long, but if you believe certainthings about yourself that aren't true, you're never going to be able to stepinto that opportunity. But from a practical level, on this like more corporateside of life, I mean I think that there's still a lot of wrongpeople at the table making decisions. I think, you know, you stillhave a lot of middle aged white men who are like we should I hearthe women and any you're like, what does that even mean? You know, but I'm with view of like why are we even having this conversation?I mean last year, if when people are like it's the year of thewoman, I was like, excuse me what, we're done that? Butyou know, it's it's I'm hopeful because...

I see a lot of women andespecially, you know, a lot of young women in their twenties and ssort you know, they're all of us. Are we get it? Like weget that we have to be we have to like be aggressive and startingto make change. But when I see, you know, we that's Ford asa community that that we host in New York and La for women andit's an open it's an open networking community. It's been really amazing and hearing alot of these conversations too, of obstacles that women are coming up againstevery single day. I mean it's all still very, very, very realand we all just have to constantly uplift each other to get out of thisinch fight. Jery inch. Yeah, that's good. I appreciate what you'redoing on both coasts and in this idea of the stories. You know,we all operate by stories in our own heads. There's some of them areso deep that we're not even conscious of them, but we tell ourselves storiesall the time and it's how we operate, and so I've been a lot moreintentional over the past few years about questioning the stories that I'm operating by. So I think it in programming. is another piece of language you usethere, which I think is exactly right. It's not like it's not like therewas some nefarious overlord word that was like let's program everyone this way.It was just the the dominant culture at the time and we're just we're continuingto unravel it a little bit and change it into something that is better foreverybody. Yeah, definitely. Okay. So last question before I close theway I always loved to close. I'm really looking forward to what you haveto share on it. You and Jessica met at Nyu Stern School of businessworking on your NBA's, but you're both e've used to work, hustle andit sounds like you've worked very, very hard and hustled your entrepreneurial and inpopular business culture there's this tension between colleges, expensive advanced degrees versus hustle and entrepreneurs, and I feel like I feel like entrepreneurs who hustle are typically theloudest voices that say school is a waste time and money. Talk about thatten and that's where you came together. Like what did the what did thatexperience mean to you, and what do you think about it today? It'sa great question. I am over educated the value you might have. Yeah, I husband I have this conversation all the time because he came to NewYork at eighteen with no money and nothing and started a real estate company thathe's had for over twenty years and he didn't go to college and he feelsthat that has always really held him back, like just in his own mind,and I'm like that's crazy, I don't understand that and I feel veryover educated. I went to Barnar for Undergrad, which I loved, butI don't remember what I learned. And you know, I got my Mbiafrom n by you and again it was a great experience, but I don'treally remember anything. I've learned. It's helpful to go and especially when wewere earlier around in the company and we'd goneto meetings and it was it's helpfulto say I have an Mva from nyu. It gives me a two young women. It definitely gives us a little...

...bit more credibility. Do I thinkit's a necessary thing? Definitely not. Am I hopeful that by the timemy five year old twins are college age there is another option for how peopleget educated at that point in their life? Absolutely think the education think it isit's too expensive, it's exclusive of most people and I learned more like. I learned more like how to be an amenable thinker. I learned moreskills like that. I don't feel like I'm I don't I just don't rememberanything art. I think, you know, our education system is just so ripefor innovation. I truly truly hope that that when my children are atthat age there's another option again, and my husband and I have thought aboutthis for not fun. I have had this argument. If my kids cameto me and said I'm not going to go to college, but I've linedup a job for myself, I'd be like great, you should do that, because, you know what, I'm hiring people. I don't care wherethey went to school. I care what their work experience is, because Idon't okay, that's so great that you partied for four years on someone's dollar, you know, but like, are you going to be able to dothe job and I need you to do and so I do think the hustleof the work is the thing that that is actually going to get you there. Yeah, I guess that an interview you can. You can almost immediately. I'm just speaking imagining you interviewing a perspective team member at the at theagency. You can probably see immediately whether or not this person as the fundamentalsto thrive in your culture. Oh Yeah, yeah, this has been awesome.I'm really excited about what you're doing. I love the approach, I lovethe place making approach and what you've done. I love the brick bybrick piece that stuck with you from that friend of yours who took them outin a cash in a tech company. So just congratulations and thanks for spendingtime with all of us in this conversation. But before I let you go,because relationships are our number one core value here at bombomb someone who hashad a positive impact on your life or career, if you could mention thatperson or more than one. Some people have gone up to three. Butyou know, when I say who's had a positive impact on your life orcareer, give that person to mention and then give them mentioned to a companywho you appreciate for the experience that they provide you as a customer. Yeah, I'll other quick names of my appreciation. So, Jess Grosser, my businesspartner. We've learned so much together. It's you know, it's really likehaving another life partner and I chose well, my coach, Chris Plaquey. I joke with her I just start her working for about a year anda half ago, and I say you will be buried next to me.Literally don't know how I ever did any of this without her and one ofmy mentors, of several mentors, but one of my mentors, whose nameis Evan Crowd, who is always there for me so wise has given meincredible, incredible advice that just brings such an enthusiasm and energy that uplifts meeven at my darkest stressful time periods. And then, in terms of company, I'm going to throw out sort of like a wild card answer because it'sless customer experience, touch, touching you...

...type of thing. But I amactually buying all of my things right now from targeted ads, I'm seen fromInstagram, so the sponsored post Algorithm on instagram and facebook is what. I'mloving it and living for it because I'm buying only like ECO friendly, sustainable, waste free things now and they are in my brain. Of course it'sbased on stuff I'm searching for, but like even before I searched for thatnext thing, they're already telling me the three best companies and I love that. It saves me so much time and so much reshirt research and I'm likepsyched about it. It's so good. We're I feel like we're in thisinteresting phase where that that is getting good. It's obviously going to get better andbetter and better, but at the same time I'm still being followed aroundby ads of things that I already bought. Right like like it's getting good,but it's got a long way to go. Yeah, total. That'scool, Ruthy. If someone wants to follow up with you or with theagency or with the let's work network, you know, where would you sendpeople that enjoyed somewhere all of this conversation? For sure. Our website is thisis the Pacom, because for the participation agency, and I'm rufy at. This is the pcom, or you can email. I think it's onthe website. Is We at? This is the paycoment. You'll be directedto me or the right person. Awesome, Ruthie. Thank you so much foryour time and to those of you who are listening, definitely check outthis. Is the PACOM. Beautiful website, well organized. Their press section Ifound really entertaining just to see examples of some of the work that you'redoing and follow along with the stories. Continued success to you and thank youfor your time, Ruthie. Thank you. Clear Communication, human connection, higherconversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos acceleratesales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book.That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and delivera better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics bysubscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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