The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

58. Uniting Customers and Brands Through Experiential Marketing w/ Ruthie Schulder


Three experience-based goals are the foundation of an amazing agency that builds the concept of experience right into its name: The Participation Agency.

  1. Translating digital experiences into lived experiences.
  2. Creating remarkable, resonant experiences without abandoning data and analytics.
  3. Building affinity between customers and brands through experience.

The extreme laser-focus on experience obviously caught my attention, but as I learned more about The Participation Agency, I saw that its success can be credited to the dedication and energy of the two founders… one of whom I got to interview on The Customer Experience Podcast.

She’s been named Inc’s Millennial CEO Rising Star and one of Adweek’s Disruptors, one of 39 women leading a revolution in advertising, media, and tech, and she’s also the co-founder and CEO of The Participation Agency Ruthie Schulder.

We had such a great conversation about how experiential marketing builds brand awareness and ultimately relationships.

You’ll also hear about...

  • Experiential marketing
  • Definitions of placemaking and 360 marketing
  • Why it took hustle to build the agency
  • The experience Ruthie creates for her partners (clients)
  • Why you don’t really need an MBA

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To meet customer experiences. Sort of there, because you need to be talking about people have been different places of where they are in their knowledge of the rather product of the service. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte, translating digital experiences into lived experiences, creating remarkable, resonant experiences without abandoning data and analytics, building affinity between customers and brands through experience. That's what the participation agency does for its clients, who they call partners, and the include names that you know like air, b andb, Amazon, red bull, Pandora, state farm and many more. Our guest today is the cofounder and CEO of the Participation Agency. She's been named inks millennial CEO, rising star and one of add weeks disruptors, one of thirty nine women leading a revolution in advertising, media and tech, ruthie shoulder. Welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you so much for having the Amazon sites in he here. Yeah, I'm looking for the conversation because what you're doing with experience is I feel like you've built the agency around it, where a lot of the other folks, I'm talking within myself, you know, we're trying to figure out how to raise up the importance of experience with our organization. So I'm looking for to the conversation. But before we get going in earnest, you know as reading a lot of the press about you and about the agency and about your cofounder, and you know, some of the headlines about the work that you do include words like outlandish, avant garde, crazy, whimsical. Like. How do you feel about that? Like, from your perspective, are you doing things that are outlandish or whimsical or like? How do you view the work that you do at a high level? Yeah, I think that we come up with like out of the box creative strategy. It's definitely unique. I think that there are a lot of iterations of the same thing that typically happen within my industry, and so we definitely push ourselves of constantly be coming up with projects that I've never written done before. I think whimsicals and maybe a little bit too fluffy of a word, but I we certainly did a lot of pride in the fact that we've built experiential platforms that are completely know the industry. It's something we definitely take really seriously because it challenges us as entrepreneurs also to constantly be questioning the status quone, to constantly be saying what seems a little bit risky from both the creative perspective but also a little bit from, you know, kind of a business perspective or from the marketing perspective, but taking very, very calculated risks and buildings strategies around them so that we know that we're injured as an idea that maybe new, but we're setting it up for success from the...

...get go, no matter what. Really Smart, calculated risk is the thing that that goes with me and in this idea of doing things that haven't been done. Let's start where I always start, which is when I say customer experience to you. What does it mean? Thoughts, characteristics, definitions? What is customer experience? Yeah, and it's a great question. I was I've listened to a lot of your other podcast and I think a lot of the guests are in a little bit more of like a tactical role where they're really interact their brand is really interacting with customers at a point of sale. Our approach is actually very different because a lot of the work that we do and building out these experiential campaigns are a lot more about brand awareness, and so I think also a big differentiator for us is that I think typically customer experiences like existing people who already know about you, that you already have in the door who are connecting with you. You know they're buying something, they're close to buying something, they've just bought something. We are come at it from a different approach because our goal is to engage the people who already know about our brands but also are really are even bigger. Goal is to raise a brand awareness and to get lots of new people to come in so to meet customer experiences sort of Eric, because you need to be talking about people at the different places of where they are in their knowledge of the brand, of product, of the service you know it. I see I spending a lot more time on linked in the past couple years or so and I'm seeing a lot of common versations where there's, you know, there's some pushback on branding and brand awareness because sometimes it's difficult to measure Roi I assume that the people that come to you and when they come to you as as partners with your agency, that they already appreciate the value of brand awareness. But you know, to someone that's like, you know, we need to put our money into some place that we can see very clear and direct and obvious. Row, I. Typically at the point of sale, like you know, I need to see conversion rates, all the other like really specific things. Can know what's your position. So we do all of that. We do both. We don't trust you rand awareness. We have a really big client right now who huge. You know, come from an that's a subside huge company, and they have really, really, really aggressive metrics to get, you know, a millionaire downloads on their digital product. And so what we're working with them to do is how do you build a strategy that has like twelve different touchpoints where you have your big brand awareness moments for people who are, you know, running through Times Square and need to get the hit of like what is this company? What is they're offering in the two seconds that they have in they're passing it all the way down to when you have your captive audience, how are you making sure that you're not only getting them to download the product but that they're actually understanding what it is? And then you kind of fell that in that spectrum all across. And so we really were talking to people at these different points of kind of like attention. But the metric is very clear, like a million dollars allows two thousand and twenty, and like we are, we're going like all cylinders fired of what it's going... take to get that done, because you can't do just one. Honestly, you can't even do just like two or three, like you have to have a very wide range of approach where every single thing, let's say you have ten points on your on your little chart there, they all have a very specific purpose and you're using them all together to create the some of the parts out of your marketing campaign. So as you're designing twelve touch points, how do you view those? So at first of all, I love this idea that the clients has. This is my problem, this is the outcome I need. I'm going to engage you in your team to figure out how to get there. And then you tackle it from there. So when you design eight hundred and twelve fifteen touch points in a campaign like this, how do you think? Like do you map those? They're probably there, they're multiple layers or they sequential? How many of them are like these five could be the first touch and then we're going to move to this thing, or like how do you view it? Like I'm trying to see a visual map in my head made up. So maybe even a little bit more contact. So we are an experiential marketing agency, so everything that we do is rooted in some form of live experience that's been very heavily amplified by digital experience and we very much have these tenants of experiential, digital and influence. Are All working together to create what we call, you know, like our digital feedback loop for customers. Of once you know, you see them in your in your fur walls, but then you obviously don't forget about them. What are you doing to keep them in the loop? In the loop, and will look at it from like a twelve month period. So that does a little bit of context of what we know is successful in terms of business type of campaign. We always start with a higher level creative platform. So, whereas a lot of experiential teams are focus on like the activation, we don't throw events, we build platforms and are rooted in experience. So we always have a high level of you know, here's the creative idea, here's the rallying cry, here's the thing that a consumer sees that gets them to understand a little bit about you and your voice through the name, the visual identity where they seem sort to show up. And then under that there are the different players. So maybe you have your you know, your top three temple events, where you're, you know, creating something totally custom and unique and you're welcoming people in. Then you have your social media campaign and you're aligning with people of influence to come to those events and start they act the drumbeat of conversation that goes on and on. Then maybe you're sponsoring existing events where you're getting Twentyzero people here and Thirtyzero people here and you're creating an experience that is a an extension of the platform that you've already built that people have started to recognize, and you show up there and specific ways with messaging that's right for that audience. And then you kind of keep going from there. We look at it really sort of, let's just say say a twelve month period, and we're constantly looking to see how do you create a real kind of like...

...up and down type of relationship with customers where there's always something for them to grab on to, but it doesn't always have to be the biggest thing, that's not always going to be the smallest thing, but you really want them going through a journey with you where they understand who you are and what you're offering is and they see it. They're just see it showing up in different places and then the experience maybe helps create, I would assume, by design, evokes the feelings that you want to be associated with those, you know, those visual marks in the other ideas. Yeah, I mean they all really have to work together, for sure. I mean it's all about pressing the message and the way that we build our cored of platforms, as we were very we're very big on the idea of that people have to be able to digest something within like three seconds. Like if you if you say if you can't say it to somebody in two sentences and have them understanding one hundred percent, it's not going to work because you're just not getting enough of people's attention and, like, I can't ever put onto a customer to do the work, to just still down, and I'm trying to tell them it has to be very, very straightforward, and so it's a challenge or come up with the right thing is. But when we know we have it, we know we have it and those are where they're really, really successful campaigns come from. Great in doing in reading up about you and about the agency and on your website, Linkedin, etc. I saw a few words that I'd love for you just to give a little bit of a definition to. The first one is place making. Yes, so we are one of, I think, the only agencies that's really going out and proactively going into tertiary markets to do activations or launch programs. Were and we had a projects film PASM, for two years. We've been in Asbury Park, New Jersey, Jersey City. We are really really being on this idea of that cities and town and emerging towns have some of the most incredible energy across the US and from a business perspective and from a cultural perspective, we feel that not engaging those people and these areas are our huge miss in a lot of ways. So what we mean by place making is going out and really doing our due diligence and saying what are these areas of the country that we feel are really on the rise and really kind of need a little bit of marketing help, to be honest, like brands come to us to make their products and their identity is relevant in culture, either for the first time or again when they're going throughout, you know, a rebirth, and so we're doing the same thing with certain markets and we really believe that these cities are changing and evolving no matter what. And when I'm when a group of people come together and put intention behind that you can create, it's something really, really, really magical, and that those opportunities don't come along very often. You know, the...

...voery in your city is only get three invented ones or twice. You know, once a city really has an identity, it's a very hard to go in reframe that. And so we're connecting with developers and governments and, you know, city officials to any places that we love, that we think are really amazing, that we know they want to have a little bit more shine of the map. And saying how can we bring our marketing expertise and are some of our attention grabbing projects to your areas? Awesome? This just kind of a softer question, but you know, are these as regards to specific cities, because I saw I saw one of your press pieces that listed a couple of those cities in a handful of other ones. Are these things that you feel intuitively or these things that you're you're getting feedback from, like, how do you identify some of these places that have a really good opportunity to be made? So it's both. We have a music program that I'm sure you read about, called for those who tour, where we have a series of homes across the US for musicians on tour, Sayer, free and exchange for social contents. So when we were opening up our some of the new houses a few years ago, we wanted to go into new markets and so we looked at actually a musicians tour route and we said, if you're a touring musician in America, what are the twenty cities that we know you're going to stop and along the way? And then, of those twenty cities, we went and we either spoke to people who you know, it's been a lot of time there and got some feedback and then we went and we looked at like the top five and we were like, what are the ones that intuitively resonate with us, where we say we have a gut feeling from the people were meeting here, from the businesses that we're seeing, from the care of the city councilman, from the Philanthropists of the community who really, really are committed to making this a successful story. Then we use our intuition and our knowledge and our feedback and our statistics, all of that to really come together love it. It sounds like a microcosm of the whole spirit of what you're doing with the participation agency at a high level. I saw this three hundred and sixty and fearless marketing. So for us, for experiential, a lot of people have it in the box where it's an event or it's an end, it's an activation and you go and it's three days and you go for an hour and like that's it. That is not our approach to experiential. We don't think that that makes for successful marketing campaigns. We also don't think that's sustainable from a resource perspective. It's very expensive and it's very wasteful and you're just not following up with people who have already come into your space and you know that they want to be marketed to. So we build out three hundred and sixty campaigns that have the live experience component but have a huge digital strategy around it and an influencer piece as well to make sure that you're hitting whatever you need to hit in terms of your success symetric. So that's what I mean by three hundred and sixty fearless marketing. Yeah, so I come from like, I have a very, very entrepreneurial spirit, as does... business partner, and we've really build our company on that and taking the calculated risks like they were talking about, and we have been really, really, really lucky and finding fearless marketing partners and giant corporations all over the world who are really vision oriented and who will push and push and push and will maybe not be the most popular person in the room, but really fight for an idea that they believe in, that we all believe in. And you know, I think fearless marketing is really just maybe the way to say being an entrepreneur in a giant corporation. So let's let's switch gears to that a little bit. So you founded the cofounded the agency in two thousand and eleven, almost a decade ago, like sept the scene for us like, what was the agency model at the time? What was the client experience and how are you kind of improving that or putting an evolution or an innovation on to that? What was the text seem like? What were some of your earlier campaigns compared to what they are now? I know that's a lot of questions, but the scene for us like, you know, founding and then maybe how that differs from from what you're doing today. Sure, I'll just refle on that, please. Questions. So Jessica and I met at ny a business school. Were both getting our NBA's and we both have these entrepreneur backgrounds and everyone else was going into the shining corporate jobs and you're like that's not us. Let's start something we know we're going to start seeing anyways. Stop fighting it. And we watched the agency and it was two of US sitting around a small table and a tiny room that's a third of the size of our current office. The just she and I share and we're, you know, almost thirty people full time now. So the growth has been really awesome and neither of US have agency backgrounds, which I find very free and very liberating because if anybody offered me a job to go work at a traditional agency, I would say now. So we have been really building our company to be a service, you know, a marketing service business in a way that we think is the right way to bring that into the world. We honestly got a lot of our earlier projects we were brought up through other agencies who needed extra support and then we realize really fast that our ideas were really good and they were resonating. We were fast, our production was fast, our idea generation was really fast. We were able to bring in the right collaborator. So, you know, all clients really want to tap into culture and we live in New York, we live in Brooklyn, we know a lot of artists, know a lot of chefts and a lot of musicians. We were able to really bring in the right people that were in our network and we executed really well and being able to Meld our creative side and our strategic side with our like NBA bringings. We don't do things that don't work,...

...because we're ambitious marketers and because we don't want to waste any of our clients dollars. All sort of laddered up to US having success early on and being able to really build a business. And then, in terms of some of the other tech companies were doing, I mean, for me the most relevant thing to talk to is that a lot of our friends started tech companies and started raising money and for a hot second we were like, maybe we should lunch a product, that maybe we should raise money, and we decided not to. And you know, agency model is really tricky and I don't have that all sorted out for sure, but I'm so happy that I didn't raise any funding. A lot of our friends are kind of still really stressed out ten years later about it, and so that was a really, really big decision for us to know that that would not be our path. Yeah, let's go a little bit deeper into that. I mean, like Bombomb, you the participation agency hit the ink five thousand, although I think you were in the three hundreds. We were in the six hundreds. Some congratulations have that. Yes, so just go a little bit deeper into that growth story and maybe some of those funding considerations and because there's so many obviously paths to growth. But just go a little bit deeper into some of that kind of the story of the growth of the agency. Sure, so for the first couple of years we were really slowly. I think until you're four, we were seven people, you know, and we got there so slowly. And then we locked one of our biggest clients who fortunately not a lot to say, but they're huge company and our main client there is a fearless leader and if you're those marketer and he really encouraged us to grow our team and he would, you know, we would grow the revenue stream and we would grow the team, but sometimes you grow them first and we would just have faith that it would come and that really got us to be a lot less apprehensive. I think about growth that way. And then in terms of revenue growth, we hustle. We hustled, you know, we taught ourselves how to be really, really good salespeople and we get new clients and we also keep clients and that's a two prompt of we do good work and they like working with us. You know, we're very service oriented. They like hanging out this to we really approach. We're thought partners. Were really were not as executor. So we have lots of conversations about vision and mission and how do you get their iterations of creative and all of that, and so it's been a very, very organic growth and one of these. You know, I have a close friend who did a text start off any raise a ton of money and it didn't go his way and he said to me just a couple of months ago it really resonated with me. He said, you know, I looked at you and you didn't skip any of the steps, like you built it brick by brick and then you got to keep adding more and more bricks and that's really that was really awesome to hear because you know, when you're in it it's hard to see it that way, but it feels sustainable...

...because we didn't skip any of the steps. It's great. I have a couple follow up questions on that. One is, you know, so when you went from seven to whatever the next level was, let's say ten or fifteen or twenty, how are you organized? So that's one question. I guess I'll just ask that one question at a time. Yeah, you know we have our senior leadership team, I mean our we're only about thirty people full time, so it's still pretty flat and all of our teams are very I don't know, I'm going to say cross functional, but we have a lot of people who are working on a lot of different projects and we also have an incredibly, incredibly collaborative team and respectful team, and that really helps. But we have our, you know, two decatives on top and then we have our senior leadership and then under that there's a the same about very much hierarchy. So we have somewhat of a flat structure. I would say. Do Do you and your cofounder, Jessica, take primary responsibility for like, I guess, Opportunity Generation in sales? Yes, yeah, we actually just hired our first BIS DEP person in the history of the agency a month ago. We've been doing in ourselves and that's honestly something that I really lead the charge of in a lot of ways. She does like creative and production. I'm client relations and business development, but we also are constantly thinking together about how you grow the business, because there's a thing that I that I love about our company is that we have our client side of the business, but we're constantly growing our business in different ways. Like we have our own experiential Ip which we, you know, like took that risk in doing and creating and was has been really, really successful. And like those are things that were constantly, constantly ideating together. Of sure, we can talk about how to get a new clients or who goes and does that pitch meeting, but really the thing that's going to get us this exponential growth are coming up with these non agency model concepts of how do you build a business doing things that we know how to do really well, really smart approach is, let you what can we best in? This is classic, I guess Hedgehog Concept would be the business school term, like, you know, what do we like doing, what can be best in the world at and what does the world need? Yeah, I think that's the I think those are the three things that overlap. But it's so it sounds like you're tackling that well from a client perspective. So you design experiences to help brands and companies engage with their customers and potential customers. How do you think about the experience of working with the participation agency, like what do you want in your intentional about the language to, which is interesting. Their partners, not clients, talk about that. What are you trying to create for them? Number one is, like we want to make our lives easier. Right, like, especially in the way that we do in production, there are a lot of messy parts and they're hiring us to be an extension of their team, to be thought partners, but to take a lot of the work off of their plates so that they could focus on other things and they can focus on can the buy... internally and all of that. And so we when we, when I say that we're very service oriented, we make ourselves available. We also really care about the work. Just go and I as founders, care about the work. We don't take out projects we don't care about because then we won't do a good job. And so when somebody calls me, a client calls me, and they want to talk about it, I love talking about it because I really really wanted to be successful. It's like it's not it's not just a number for me on a spreadsheet. Like I every piece for us should be a portfolio piece and if it's not, we're all failing. And so we really care, we take it seriously and you know, we've our team. We have nice people that everybody wants staying out with, and I think you really hit some magical moments in client services when people genuinely want to like get dinner after a long day on site and knowing that they can rely on us and a lot of different ways, from a business perspective, from a production perspective, from a social connection perspective, really is a big deal. And then, of course, our creative is really good and we do flaw us work. Honestly, if our work wasn't good, none of the relationship stuff wouldn't matter. All of it has to be like really on point. Yeah, I some of the stuff you said. They're you. Obviously you care a lot. You do really good work. You're very intentional about what you do and don't. Do you invest in real relationships with people? Do you, this is a little bit of a personal question, do you divide work from network? Like like, I feel like someone like you might always be working. How did I like? How does that? How do you manage that for yourself, because you're so invested in it? I'm definitely always working, for sure, but I don't mind it because I like I got into a place in my company and through a lot of work with my own executive coats that they work with, of not letting certain things be stressful. Like I used to go on vacation and say, well, I have to delete my gmail APP because there's no I can see a work email and I'm like whatever, like this. It's all great stuff. I you know, I have small toldren and so I'm trying to be a lot more careful about not checking my phone when I'm with them, because they're old enough now that they it matters that they notice, and so I had up for me, like I want to be more present with them, and so I need to have the self control of creating some sort of separation. But I think those are for me. Work means a lot of different things, like, yes, there's a client day to day or there's a project daytoday, but like being able to build a business where the sky is the limit and it's literally just going to getting to make all of the decisions, we have nobody else to answer to, is the dream of life. And so being able to spend an extra fifteen minutes in the shower once because I'm in the middle of a really amazing brain storm and I have an idea and I was like that's genius, like I gotta let that germinate for a little while, and... be able to think about that and bring that back is so much fun. Like I I'm so honored. I'm lucky that I get to do those kinds of things. So you know. All that being said, mostly inspite, soon as I put my kids to bed, I'm so tired and it's my brain won't allow for any work, no matter how hard I need to get things done. So you have that too. It's good. I'll add gratitude to the list. It sounds like a really healthy and privileged opportunity that you've the gratitude you have around it is is important. I can't believe we have to have this conversation in two thousand and twenty, but we will because it's important to you and you and Jessica have also done some work with let's work talk about women in business one wide. Why is this a conversation in two thousand and twenty? What are some of the impediments to having a more balanced professional environment and what kind of work are you doing around that? There are two as I want to enter the impediments question. One is that I think that so many amazing women sort of in similar places to me in their career or younger, are realizing now that doesn't have to be the way that it was for the generation before us, and I think so many of us are at the precipice of this like giant awakening. But the impediment is that we it's a lot of hard work to do. You Program yourself from the crap that was sent to you and you were sixteen, you know, coming from your mother's coming from all the magazines, coming from everything that we were exposed to, because, you know, twenty years ago it was a completely different story and when we were being raised the messaging was really messed up. I mean a lot of it is still really messed up. It was really messed up. So all of us who were, you know, grew up reading team, you know, cosmopolitan, have a lot of retraining of our brains to do and I think that just from like on a more personal individual level for all of us, if you don't have the right support around you to say that thing you keep telling yourself as fake and totally messed up, and it's on all of us to uplift each other out of these really toxic patterns. I think that's a really big thing that I see happening with a lot of people but, of course, is not happening to and that's a huge impediment because you can have opportunity in your in your business life all day long, but if you believe certain things about yourself that aren't true, you're never going to be able to step into that opportunity. But from a practical level, on this like more corporate side of life, I mean I think that there's still a lot of wrong people at the table making decisions. I think, you know, you still have a lot of middle aged white men who are like we should I hear the women and any you're like, what does that even mean? You know, but I'm with view of like why are we even having this conversation? I mean last year, if when people are like it's the year of the woman, I was like, excuse me what, we're done that? But you know, it's it's I'm hopeful because...

I see a lot of women and especially, you know, a lot of young women in their twenties and s sort you know, they're all of us. Are we get it? Like we get that we have to be we have to like be aggressive and starting to make change. But when I see, you know, we that's Ford as a community that that we host in New York and La for women and it's an open it's an open networking community. It's been really amazing and hearing a lot of these conversations too, of obstacles that women are coming up against every single day. I mean it's all still very, very, very real and we all just have to constantly uplift each other to get out of this inch fight. Jery inch. Yeah, that's good. I appreciate what you're doing on both coasts and in this idea of the stories. You know, we all operate by stories in our own heads. There's some of them are so deep that we're not even conscious of them, but we tell ourselves stories all the time and it's how we operate, and so I've been a lot more intentional over the past few years about questioning the stories that I'm operating by. So I think it in programming. is another piece of language you use there, which I think is exactly right. It's not like it's not like there was some nefarious overlord word that was like let's program everyone this way. It was just the the dominant culture at the time and we're just we're continuing to unravel it a little bit and change it into something that is better for everybody. Yeah, definitely. Okay. So last question before I close the way I always loved to close. I'm really looking forward to what you have to share on it. You and Jessica met at Nyu Stern School of business working on your NBA's, but you're both e've used to work, hustle and it sounds like you've worked very, very hard and hustled your entrepreneurial and in popular business culture there's this tension between colleges, expensive advanced degrees versus hustle and entrepreneurs, and I feel like I feel like entrepreneurs who hustle are typically the loudest voices that say school is a waste time and money. Talk about that ten and that's where you came together. Like what did the what did that experience mean to you, and what do you think about it today? It's a great question. I am over educated the value you might have. Yeah, I husband I have this conversation all the time because he came to New York at eighteen with no money and nothing and started a real estate company that he's had for over twenty years and he didn't go to college and he feels that that has always really held him back, like just in his own mind, and I'm like that's crazy, I don't understand that and I feel very over educated. I went to Barnar for Undergrad, which I loved, but I don't remember what I learned. And you know, I got my Mbia from n by you and again it was a great experience, but I don't really remember anything. I've learned. It's helpful to go and especially when we were earlier around in the company and we'd goneto meetings and it was it's helpful to say I have an Mva from nyu. It gives me a two young women. It definitely gives us a little...

...bit more credibility. Do I think it's a necessary thing? Definitely not. Am I hopeful that by the time my five year old twins are college age there is another option for how people get educated at that point in their life? Absolutely think the education think it is it's too expensive, it's exclusive of most people and I learned more like. I learned more like how to be an amenable thinker. I learned more skills like that. I don't feel like I'm I don't I just don't remember anything art. I think, you know, our education system is just so ripe for innovation. I truly truly hope that that when my children are at that age there's another option again, and my husband and I have thought about this for not fun. I have had this argument. If my kids came to me and said I'm not going to go to college, but I've lined up a job for myself, I'd be like great, you should do that, because, you know what, I'm hiring people. I don't care where they went to school. I care what their work experience is, because I don't okay, that's so great that you partied for four years on someone's dollar, you know, but like, are you going to be able to do the job and I need you to do and so I do think the hustle of the work is the thing that that is actually going to get you there. Yeah, I guess that an interview you can. You can almost immediately. I'm just speaking imagining you interviewing a perspective team member at the at the agency. You can probably see immediately whether or not this person as the fundamentals to thrive in your culture. Oh Yeah, yeah, this has been awesome. I'm really excited about what you're doing. I love the approach, I love the place making approach and what you've done. I love the brick by brick piece that stuck with you from that friend of yours who took them out in a cash in a tech company. So just congratulations and thanks for spending time with all of us in this conversation. But before I let you go, because relationships are our number one core value here at bombomb someone who has had a positive impact on your life or career, if you could mention that person or more than one. Some people have gone up to three. But you know, when I say who's had a positive impact on your life or career, give that person to mention and then give them mentioned to a company who you appreciate for the experience that they provide you as a customer. Yeah, I'll other quick names of my appreciation. So, Jess Grosser, my business partner. We've learned so much together. It's you know, it's really like having another life partner and I chose well, my coach, Chris Plaquey. I joke with her I just start her working for about a year and a half ago, and I say you will be buried next to me. Literally don't know how I ever did any of this without her and one of my mentors, of several mentors, but one of my mentors, whose name is Evan Crowd, who is always there for me so wise has given me incredible, incredible advice that just brings such an enthusiasm and energy that uplifts me even at my darkest stressful time periods. And then, in terms of company, I'm going to throw out sort of like a wild card answer because it's less customer experience, touch, touching you...

...type of thing. But I am actually buying all of my things right now from targeted ads, I'm seen from Instagram, so the sponsored post Algorithm on instagram and facebook is what. I'm loving it and living for it because I'm buying only like ECO friendly, sustainable, waste free things now and they are in my brain. Of course it's based on stuff I'm searching for, but like even before I searched for that next thing, they're already telling me the three best companies and I love that. It saves me so much time and so much reshirt research and I'm like psyched about it. It's so good. We're I feel like we're in this interesting phase where that that is getting good. It's obviously going to get better and better and better, but at the same time I'm still being followed around by ads of things that I already bought. Right like like it's getting good, but it's got a long way to go. Yeah, total. That's cool, Ruthy. If someone wants to follow up with you or with the agency or with the let's work network, you know, where would you send people that enjoyed somewhere all of this conversation? For sure. Our website is this is the Pacom, because for the participation agency, and I'm rufy at. This is the pcom, or you can email. I think it's on the website. Is We at? This is the paycoment. You'll be directed to me or the right person. Awesome, Ruthie. Thank you so much for your time and to those of you who are listening, definitely check out this. Is the PACOM. Beautiful website, well organized. Their press section I found really entertaining just to see examples of some of the work that you're doing and follow along with the stories. Continued success to you and thank you for your time, Ruthie. Thank you. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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