The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

59. The Pirate's Guide To Sales: Learn and Steal from The Best w/ Tyler Menke


When you constantly learn from the best, you become the best. Today we’re learning from some of the best salespeople, who know that the secret to improving customer experience is no secret at all. My most recent podcast guest spent a few years as a Marketing Director before becoming a Territory Manager for UPS, selling supply chain solutions. For the past decade, he’s been blowing out his quotas in sales and account management roles. He currently serves as a Manager of Strategic Accounts at Myriad Genetics.

On this episode, I interview Tyler Menke, Manager of Strategic Accounts at Myriad Genetics and author of The Pirate’s Guide to Sales: A Seller’s Guide for Getting from Why to Buy

We chatted about everything from Simon Sinek, TED Talks, losing a parent, ending a book, and why medical sales are so hard to break into. You’ll also hear about:

  • Our mutual adoration for Simon Sinek, Daniel Kahneman, and TED Talks
  • Establishing VALUE
  • How strategic accounts is like a quarterback
  • What sales should understand about marketing

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:



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The reality. The KPIS should be the customers measurement, not the companies, and I think so often we come up with the KPIS and the measurements and metrics and then we push them on the customer. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. When you constantly learn from the best, you become the best. That's the thesis of our guest today on the customer experience podcast. So today we're going to learn from some of the best salespeople who know that the secret to improving customer experience is no secret at all. Our guest spent a few years as a marketing director, spent a few years as a territory manager for you PS selling supply chain solutions. For the past decade he's been blowing out as quotas in sales and account management roles and he currently serves as manager of strategic accounts at Maria Genetics, but the project will spend most of our time talking about is the pirates guide to sale, which is the result of interviewing top sales people over five years and then organizing and publishing the most interesting innovations and best stories and a newly released book. Tyler Manky, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Oh thanks are having me. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, me too. I think a project that you undertook completely self initiated is really cool and interesting. I'm excited to get into it. But before we get going, let's talk for a minute about your linkedin description. So you know, we all have that little description that goes with our names and a lot of people use it, you know, to to act mention their company or other things that they're working on. Some people use it for keyword stuffing or self promotion. But you've got a small piece of advice and inspiration next to your name. All it says is start small, dream big. What's the motivation there? It's interesting you bring that up. I think it's kind of twofold. The first part of it is to remind myself. You know, I'm somebody who has a lot of ideas, and you know that can be both a positive and a detriment. So when you're in sales or those of us that have entrepreneurial spirits and think that way, we can all relate to times where, you know, we see the vision and all the different directions that things can go, but rarely do you get to the finish line without, you know, taking the proper step. So my experience has been you have to start small and really own your crafts with a small substic customers and sort of branch out from there and let those individuals sort of be your ground troops and your initial group and collection of customers that help spread the word. So good. Let's start in earnest, where we always start, which is your thoughts or your care juristics or your definitions of customer experience. When I say...

...customer experience, what does that mean to you? Well, I mean I think when it comes to customer experience it's a challenging one because at times you've got things that the customer themselves don't realize that they need, but then in other instances, you know, those of us that have to pitch things or create things for customer experience will think they need something and they don't actually need it. So I think there's this jugstaposed thing going on here where you have to really intrench yourself into the customers state of mind and find that happy median between what is needed and what is one that to create something of true value for a customer. And you know so I think it's a challenging thing just because, like I said, at times they don't know exactly what the next best thing would be, but then again we don't either. So you really have to intrench yourself to find that happy place where they truly have a valued experience. That I like, this this tension between wants and needs. You know, we've one of the things that we've set around here at bombomb for a while is sell them what they want, but give them what they need. I just really like that tension. I like the way you spoke to it. Let's get to the pirates guide right off the top here. What was the spark for this project? Yeah, so I had wanted to break into medical sales and those of your listeners that know anything about medical sales, it's kind of a tough field to break into and a lot of times you have to kind of earn your earn your way in. And so I had taken on this role at logic which is which was called a surgical sales specialist role. And basically what that was is you would go out and fill in open territories in and around the country. So if there was a maternity leave or if somebody had been let go, you would fill in until that replacement was brought and so I remember interviewing for that and the guy who hired me, who's now made it all the way up to Co at another large device company, he told me this will be the hardest year of your career. Are you willing to do this? And so I like the challenge. I took it on. But the beauty of that year is all of us in sales we can be pretty hard on ourselves, right, and so when you're given a territory that's not yours and very little detail around it, you give yourself a little bit of race or a little wig room to make mistakes and not beat yourself up. And so it was like learning sales, medical sales, by drinking from a fire hose. You know, every territory I took on, I have to relearn everything. New Sets of doctors and I made so many mistakes in that year. I came out of it, you know, feeling really confident in my abilities, but I also realize, you know, I learned so much for my mistakes, but I also learned so much from all the counters, because it was kind of like a pirates guy adventure in and of itself. I was learning from all the best that were all...

...around me and, you know, ten different geographies around that country. So that's sort of where my inspiration came from. I'm like, I wonder if I can continue to accelerate this process by getting other cop sellers on the phone and and other business minded people on the phone and and kind of firing all the best ideas from them. So when in that process, you know could, because a lot of us are doing you know, if we're learning and growing and challenging ourselves. We're getting involved in in products and circumstances, maybe not as crazy as yours, you know, being at filling around the country, but you know, we're all learning and growing, but so, so few people actually take the time to document it. Were you documenting it as you were going? I had no intention really of getting to a published work until much more recently, but I've always been sort of a left brainer and I've always liked to write and play guitar and draw and sketch and so, you know, it's just kind of a part of my daily routine to do that. And so I had a lot of notes and a lot of things that I've written about. I've written some articles on Linkedin and I remember few years back the article that kind of went the most viral, you know, on a smaller scale, was one that was, you know, of that topic. Basically, you know, here's a bunch of ideas and you know, take what you want for yourself and your own selling system. And so that was when I was like, how I wonder if there's something here. You know, and most most sales books that I've ever read, and I'm a big reader. I like a lot of stuff on behavioral psychology and even philosophy and some of the deeper subjects, but the sales books are typically written by researchers, not actual be to be sales so I thought there might be a niche here. Nice it sounds like, from a customer experience standpoint. That is one point of differentiation. The research is in primary research with people who are actually out there trying to solve customers problems. Right. Yeah, and I incorporate a lot of, you know, stuff from sales books I had read that, you know, I found a value and stuff from, you know, other business books, people like Ray Dalli Oh and Daniel conoman and and some real true thought leaders. There's certain subject matter that I don't feel like us in sales, even if you are a master or going to be as good as you know, Daniel Connoman, when it comes to decision making. To sure. Yeah, we Allan on his research in in the book that we wrote here Rehumanize Your Business. So you're obviously an accomplished salesperson as you were undertaking this, but I'll bet you still learned to ton by talking with a bunch of other great salespeople. was there anything that surprised you in this journey where you like like a real Aha for you? You yeah, and you're exactly right. I mean, I learned so much for this process and that's why I hope, you know, others will see the value...

...and what I wrote. But no, I would say the biggest surprise to me is that salespeople get pigeonholed, like we like for years, they'll say. You know, companies will be seeking your looking for a challenge, some sort of label. The best salespeople have almost nothing in common from a personality standpoint, not not that I could find. You know, I remember my first sales job training with somebody and thinking, Gosh, you know, if this is how I have to be, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to pull this off. Like I don't have near the energy that guy has, I don't have near the chuave a appeal. And yet I slowly but surely found that it's about your own system and there's no, you know, personality. I've met introverts that are just tremendously great sales people. So that's probably the biggest thing. Yeah, it's really interesting. I obviously am working with a lot of people trying to get them to be more comfortable using video in their work, whether they're in marketing, sales, customer success, leadership management, and it's the same thing. A lot of people think they need to be this big, specific, dynamic personality, but really all of us are succeeding every day on who we are, and so having that confidence in there and some systematic approach and some discipline goes a long way. One of the phrases in the subtitle of the pirates guide to sales, it's interesting to me, is this why to buy. Talk about that, like moving moving people from why to buy, like talk about that language and what's behind it. I think in the evolution of sales, you know, we've gone from you know, back in the day when there was less competition, you would build a relationship with people, and then, if you think about has ow our business and our economies change, we got to a place where there was a lot of problem because everything got much more automated and systematic, and so that's when spin selling came out. And then we got to a place where there were so many people trying to fix and and find problems that it was those that could really shift perspective and build that and walk that tension line that the challenger came about. I really think we moved so fast paced today that you have to sort of take bits and pieces from everything and combine an into your own system. But nothing has changed. You know somebody, we all like to buy. We can all think of a time where we bought something and it was a great process, you know, like whether it be chick fil a for lunch or, you know, your new apple life. We can all think of something that we bought where the experience was great, and so really that comes down to the fact that that customer or that product is understanding, you know, why you're there. You know the eye is is basically the motivation. So the thought of feature, advantage benefit, you know, I think Simon Synecd it right and that when you can understand the...

...why, you can cut a lot of the fat, you know, and get to the core reason why somebody would have any interest prior to data dumping. So that's sort of the thought. But I think that in today's world is far more challenging than ever to understand and just sell to the why. You know. I think that's the part from Simon Senex works that I've read that that is sort of missing. It's kind of a challenging endeavor to understand that. Yeah, and there's a big behavioral economics conversation and problem to be solved there. One of the big pieces in there to me in the pirates guide is the value acronym. Can you just speak to that a little bit? I think it there are a lot of really important ideas there and I'd love for you just to speak a little bit about that acronym of Value. Yeah, so if you read the book you'll see there's some themes in there about lean six sing my. I've got a lean six sigma certification, broad certification, and when you go through that process or if you know anything about lean manufacturing, a lot of it is like they were the Simon Senex before the Simon Sentex. They were trying to understand the why behind by for customers and create something of value in something that ties directly to Eugene. So I went ahead and just used an acronym of value. The sort of highlights some of the lesser thought places to look for adding value to the customer. So using the acronym V stands for variability. So any if you think about it, anytime there's variability of product or service, that's going to be something that if your product can help with, it's going to add value. Likewise, the a being automation. So if you can automate a manual process or automate something for a customer, that's going to immediately bring up time and be of value. The l being for lower cost. You know there are a number of different ways to lower costs outside of just the price itself. And if you think about products like apple or truly innovative products, anytime you can uniquely differentiate for your customer, if you can create something uniquely different for their brand with your product or service, then you're going to be seen as somebody that can add value. And then, lastly, access waste. We all get so busy we forget and become blind to the waist in front of us. So having somebody come in and be able to find that waste and and rid the the company or product of it is is usually a good place to look. Yeah, there's a lot in there. When I hear variability and product or service, I feel like those when people experience that, that's a shake of trust or confidence. It's like, this isn't what I expected or this isn't quite what I got last time. Like it kind of shakes that up a little bit. I think automation speaks a little bit to the elimination of friction and and just making things more seamless, obviously eliminating waste and in lowering...

...costs throughout the supply chain and maybe passing those on to the customers savings or, as you said, like lowering cost might not actually be in the price at all. And then, of course, unique differentiation is really what brand experience and customer experience are about. I just really like what you've done there and it's really useful. Last I'll ask about specifically around the book is this idea of burning of the boats. Now it's a phrase that a lot of people use intermittently, but it's one that's so fun and interesting and bold. Talk about the way you use it in this context. Obviously the boats lend themselves to the pirating theme, but you know, talk about what's really behind it. Yeah, so one of the things that I always appreciate when I'm reading a book is understanding a little bit about the author and their why. And I was really struggling to come up with something to conclude the book and I had landed on that in my outline, you know, the burned the boats thing, but I was scared because of the cliche. So if you read that, it's a very heartfelt you know, I can't read it without crying because I lost my daddy after a sixties birthday this path may, and so it's a conclusion that talks about one of the key learnings I had through that reading process and how I never wanted to go back to the way of thinking that I had prior to this period of enlightenment. And so, in a similar way, the book concludes with you know, hopefully you've taken away things that you'll carry with you and you'll never look back, and so you know the point not being your traditional burn the boats and that you're going to throw out everything you've learned prior to reading this, but in essence that hopefully you've had some things that will challenge yourself to continue to grow and sell better and connect more appropriately. Beautiful. There are so many things that you offered there that remind me of my own journey in organizing thoughts and doing some writing, including the loss of a parent and struggling to figure out how to end a book. But will say that maybe for a personal conversation. Fun Steve Jobs quote around the book and then we'll move on is it's more fun to be a pirate than to join the navy. You know you've already mentioned apple a couple of times. How much did that quote mean do you around this team? Obviously the pirates guide is is stealing, in begging and borrowing the best ideas from other salespeople. But how much did that quote lend itself to the theme? For you? It really when I was trying to conjure up and to use, you know, what you just said. It's exactly what you're trying to do when you've got this framework of ideas, is how are you going to organize it in a way that can be easy to follow but but also, you know, memorable, and that that quote is what actually drove the whole thing. And so for me, when I heard that quote and I was trying to come up with the framework, I was like that that's it, that's in essence, what we're doing here is just what you...

...said. We're going out and taking the best ideas and learning from the best and pirting them. So you know, apple was famous, apparently, for flying pirates flag on top and and imploring their people to go learn from the best and and innovating that regard. So you know, I think that that was a big part of the title and also what lended itself to the framework. Cool. Congratulations again on just crushing quota after quota after quota. My motivation here on the show is to start having a clearer and better conversation across marketing, sales and customer success in particular, but throughout the organization, about how to create better alignment toward a better customer experience, because even in a healthy culture we can find ourselves a little bit siload and so they're a couple really interesting things about your career that I would love to ask you about to start drawing some of these connections. And the first one is, you know, when I look at your your profile on Linkedin, I feel like a couple of these roles, their sales rolls, but they're there. They seem to be a blend maybe of account executive and account manager, which in a lot of organizations are two separate size. It's the house talk a little bit about a traditional sales roll versus an account management roll. Do you see that yourself? And my is my observation, even in the Ballpark, and what do you think about that? Well, I think is it relates to the you know, the the parallels and hope, well, hopefully, the parallels between marketing, sales and customer experience. You know, there's a variety of different roles within companies and they all have sort of a cross poll nation, so to speak, but I mean, I think for me personally working in a large corporation, there ten, you know, in a purposeful way, there tends to be a silo and a segmentation of different roles, even from inside sales to outside sales. But to answer your question and strategic accounts, you know I work closely with all sides of the table and so you really do find a lot of commonalities and I have to typically be the quarterback the create that sort of common thread or golden thread that weaves through the customer messaging. It really is a challenge. I love what you're doing because I think often times there is a disconnect between marketing and sales and even between marketing, sales and customer. You know, I really think we tend to always go to the same wells and for information and that can lead you down a path that you know, as you redoing a lot of things after the fact. Think the more observation you can do of the customer on the ground floor prior to launching or producing anything, the better off you'll be. Absolutely and then creating feedback loops, because different people are experiencing and touching the customer at different points and in different ways. We all see the customer a little bit differently.

Part of it's the way we have our metrics set up. Metrics can create some alignment. But so do you definitely see yourself as a salesperson rather than account manager? Absolutely yeah, and I mean I think I I often will have to jump into different seats and I certainly enjoy all aspects of business, but traditionally I've been more in a sales role. But Yeah, you touched on something there with the metrics that that also kind of sticks in micrawl. I think that that metrics are super, super important. You know, I think it's the difference between a personal trainer and going on your venture this January first on yourself to lose weight. You know, somebody takes your body fat percentage, cluster all, takes all your measurements when you step on the scale the end of February and him and lost any weight they can. They can show you all the other places that you had success. But in the book I talked about KPIS and I reverse the you know how Simon sent it. Reverses it with the Golden Circle. I reverse it with Kpis because in reality, the Kpis should be the customers measurement, not the companies, and I think so often we come up with the KPIS and the measurements and metrics and then we push them on the customer and I think that's where you were. Things go awry because you're not necessarily measure measuring the right things. You can understand what's important to the customer and measure those things. Now you've got something about them right and you start to understand the value that you're actually providing even better. That's a really, really great insight. So you your Cincinnati Guy. You went to school at Xavier and you did it an undergraduate degreeanda and an MBA there and your undergrad was in marketing, an entrepreneurship, and you spent your first few years of your career as a marketing director. How do you think that marketing study and marketing work earlier in your career set you up for a successful sales career? Well, I mean that was another fire hose experience. I was working for a entrepreneur and he had sort of grown pretty quickly and at the same time he lost his marketing director and I was just an intern still in college when they offered me the full time position and all of a sudden was in ye know, I was like, I'll take this on. I'm marketing director and and I have over a million dollar budget with franchise's and I would have to meet with all these business owners, you know, these franchise's, and I was the guy that was in charge of their budget. So just, I mean I you know, for me it was all about understanding what was going to be the common thing that would help the most entrepreneurs, not what I wanted to to pitch your market. But I think that, to answer your question, I think that role taught me so much just about, you know, the humility and the understanding of where people and business centers are coming from, because there's so much pressure and that... percent marketing budget in a franchise fee is a lot, you know, because it's coming it's coming right off the margin, and so, you know, I think it made me feel super respectful and indebted to doing the best I possibly could with their money. And then, as you grow and expand into roles where there's more money and larger companies and stuff like that, creating that unique value from a marketing side and being laser focused and arguted and not using too much of a shotgun approach. You know, that's something I'm never forgotten. Really good. Is there anything that you wish more salespeople understood about marketing or marketers or the marketing process? Well, I mean I think that they're different. You know, I see frustration across both sides from time to time and I think the more you understand, just like when you know you hear about a couple going through a divorce and you pick sides, you know there's often two sides of story and until you understand both, it's really hard for you to have an opinion, at least one that's right. But I think for me, just understanding that they're very different roles. You know, marketing is going to have to build a brand and branding is still relatively new to salespeople. They don't necessarily understand the value. They want to drive something. Now you know they're not always is long term or visionary. And then likewise, you know salespeople will at time see marketing push things that they know their customers aren't going to respond to because there wasn't enough testing done on the ground level. So I think the biggest thing is just them working together, because there's a lot that can be learned by that happening. Completely agree. So are there? Is there anything that you remember or took away from your time at ups? You had a very complex sale. It seems like obviously a very large company. You're getting probably deep into your customers businesses. Is there anything you know a decade remove, that you remember from your time at Heps? Oh, absolutely, and what was interesting about that job is as soon as you tell somebody worked or sold for UPS, they think of package world, where it's the postal service that x and ups. But I worked in the free forwarding division, you know, ocean and air freight, and I'm sure people don't realize this, but there's thousands of those companies out there. It really a broker and a travel agent for for larger shipments, and so ups was by no means, and they're probably still not the largest player. I mean they were like fifteen to twenty down the list. So they couldn't, they didn't have the purchasing power to be the lowest cost provider. But then at the same time everybody's heard of ups, so they expect them... have good pricing. So for me understanding the value and in how complex it is to get something from point a to point b through customs, customs brokerage and how important that was. But then, most and most importantly, the thing that ups had that most above them on the compederal list didn't was the technology. So as soon as I started realizing how important it was for a customer and understand that their ocean shipment was, you know, ten days out, s out cleared custom they can see visibility of that. You know that that could lend itself to the difference between a thousand dollars for shipping container. You know more, because if it's no good, if it's cheaper but it shows up a week late in your all your product goes out a weekly. So yeah, and you didn't see that delay coming five days out right. That visibility is such a huge value add it's really good. Now you had. This is something I picked up off your linkedin profile. You you were invited to give a speech to new hireside best practices for your first year in sales at ups. Yeah, it's you. Do you remember? How did you get that invite? And then do you remember any of the top takeaways for folks? Yeah, I wonder why they picked me now, thinking back, you know, by no means was I any sort of top seller at that point. So I remember when I went in there, the biggest thing that I I set out to do is just start with a lot of questions. Now, how are things going for the new hire? which challenge is where they experience thing? What frustrations did they have? And I did very little planning. I would have done a lot more planning had I done that today, but that's that's how I started, and then I just spoke to all the things that I had just gone through. You know that I had just experienced in my first year and I had a guy recently that got brought onto myriad and he talked about how, when I came and talk to new higher class, how I remembered some of the things I said. It's funny, I don't remember exactly. That's funny. Well, curiosity goes a long way. I mean, I think starting with questions is always a great place to start, and I guess as we approached the clothes here, I got one more quick question for you, the MBA. What were your considerations prose cons as you did, as you wondered if that was a worthier investment of time and money. What were some of the factors that led you to pursue an Mba at Xavier after doing your Undergrad? Yes, so my dad had worked it it Xavier and I so first and foremost, I had a financial benefit, so I had gotten a, you know, substantial reduction and cost that you know it's some day expire, or at least I thought so. I wanted to take advantage of that. But secondarily, I remember thinking at the time and hearing from other people the connections will make. But then just how much you learn from your classmates, and that's something that you know.

I think if anyone has the opportunity to do an MBA or something like that, if you can get in, you know it's much more challenging. Obviously if you can do it online, that's great, but the interactions, the personal interactions, because at the time there wasn't as many online classes. I think only up online, but I mean the interactions and what you learned from all your classmates was was absolutely the most powerful. And then just a deeper dive, particularly in statistics. I think statistics is so important in business and you just really scratch the surface in your Undergrad. So I remember thinking that all the statistics deep dive was well worth it. Yeah, I agreed. I did my mba in person predominantly, and it was to get that facetoface time with all these other working professionals. Of course, the the folks that were leading the classes were also accomplished in valuable in their own way. And for me, definitely statistics, but then also finance. That was kind of like the weader course, and my MBA program is like that was the maker break if you're like a marketer or, you know, some of these other even a sales sales based person. If you could grind your way through the finance class, then you knew you were going to make it. Yeah, and it I'm sure you would agree with this, to just being able to understand and read financial reports. You know, I remember not really fully understanding the line items coming out of Undergrad and I think that that, you know, certainly helps the time. Yeah, relationship to our number one core value here at bombomb and so I like to give you the chance, before we say goodbye, to think or mentioned someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and then separately give a shout out or mentioned to a company or a brand that you really like in respect for the way that they deliver an experience for you as a customer. So I'll have the flour of this to her, because I'm sure she wouldn't find it. But my the first person that came to mine is my grandma, my dad's mom. She's lost two kids this year and which is got to be tremendously hard. But she is somebody who lit she has just the best. She's in her s and she just says the best approach it life and you know she is just full of love and joy and you know she's had a tremendous impact on my life and in so many ways. She's also always been very entrepreneurial. My grandpa ran a surgery practice and started it from scratch and and she was very instrumental and helping with that, and so she's somebody who, you know, I still sit down with and we'll have some very serious, deep conversations with I always learned from that's the first person that comes Marne. Great. And how about a company? There's a lot of companies that, you know,...

I traditionally have great experiences with. The first that comes to mind is Ted talks. You know, I think that there have been so many Ted talks that I've listened to that have had impact on my life and oftentimes when I'm having, you know, not the best day, I'll try to find one to sort of reframe and shift my my you know, my brain or my way of thinking. You know, I love what they stand for and I love the messaging and the format and it's had a tremendous impact on my life and it's not something I really thought of until you ask the question. It's really good. I love that answer and yeah, it's I mean, what a challenge to take. You know, a lot of these people are taking their current work, or maybe even their life's work, and trying to get it into eighteen minutes in a sensible way that's interesting and easy to follow, and so you get like these. You know, it's like the cliffs notes of you know, really really rich and important bodies of work. It's so good and I love the way that you use it that it's a go too when you need it. Tyler, again, this has been great. I sincerely appreciate your time so much. You are doing great work. You're surrounded by wonderful people, it sounds like, and if someone wants to follow up with you, they want to learn more about the pirates guide or anything else where, some places that you would send folks to connect with you or the work that you're doing? Yeah, I would. I would implore anyone to just reach out via linkedin. You just search tyler mankey and I should pop up and send me a message or connect with me that way. I love, you know, talking to people and connecting to people. Like cover five states. I have a lot of windshield time, so I've been trying to, you know, get on the phone with people and learn a little about a little bit about their story. So that that's what I would say. The pirates guide you can just find via Google, but it's on Amazon, you know, candle. It will soon be on audible. So that's what I would say. Is Linkedin. You reach out to me that way, awesome, sounds really good. I'll have all this stuff linked up in. I you know, we write up every one of these episodes. For those of you who are listening, if you have not visited Bombombcom forward podcast, just bombombcom podcast. We write all of these up. We put video clips in there, I link up things that the guests talk about, and so if you want to to learn more about tyler and some of the stuff that we talked about here, if you want to see him in video, it's all happening at Bombombcom podcast. Tyler, thank you again for your time. I'll thank you so much. This has been great. I can tell you're one of the you know, authentic, true, you know people that are out there trying to help sort of share all the messages and help everybody get better. So this has been a pleasure, awesome. Yeah, we share a philosophy that way. I love connecting with and learning from other people, and then, you know, to have a format where you can share with other people makes it even more valuable because it creates that ongoing conversation. So thank you again so much for being part of it and thank you for listening. Clear Communication, Human Connection, higher conversion, these are just some of...

...the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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