The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

6. Be a Problem-Solver, Not a Seller w/ Steve Pacinelli


How do you get people to pay attention to your message?

Whether you’re selling to a customer online or speaking in front of a live audience, you need to create a shared belief about what the other person will be getting out of it.  

To deep dive into that concept, I spoke with Steve Pacinelli, the CMO at BombBomb who is my co-author of our book Rehumanize Your Business: How Personal Videos Accelerate Sales and Improve Customer Experience.

Here are some highlights of what we discussed.

  • Customer Experience as the Exploration of a Shared Belief
  • Enthusiasm Is Contagious
  • Making Yourself Valuable to Your Audience
  • Keep Your Audience Interested
  • Little Things That Make a Big Difference


And when you see a passion withinsomeone else, that shared passion. Again, oh I got this person's passionate aboutour product and what they're doing. That makes the CS person passionate aboutit, or the salesperson that sold some more people like us that speak withour customers, you know, on a daily basis, and it's just sharingand that belief together which makes the great experience for the customer. You're listeningto the customer experience podcast, a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businesses restorea personal human touch throughout the customer life cycle. Get ready to hear howsales, marketing and customer success experts surprise and delight and never lose sign oftheir customers humanity. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Welcome it to abonus episode of the customer experience podcast. Every week you hear from me,marketing, sales, customer success, branding or another functional expert about how they'rebuilding better customer experience across rolls and across functions inside their organizations and with andfor their clients. But once a month you're going to go inside bombomb.We're a software company and we're trying, of course, to build a bettercustomer experience as well, and this is the first bonus episode that you're goingto get. You'll get one every single month. Here I've got a longtimefriend, a gentleman I have known for years. He was a bombomb customerhim or before he became our chief marketing officer, a role he served infor more than four years. Prior to that, he spent a dozen yearsleading outside sales teams for realtorncom. He's traveled all over the place. He'sgiven thousands of presentations. He's my coauthor on rehumanize your business, the definitiveguide to simple personal videos to accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Steve PassinElli, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you for having me. ThatI you know as being the bonus that that makes me. It makesme happy that that I'm the bonus of the of the session totally. Imean every Tuesday you're going to get something new, but will surprise you oncea month with a bonus, and thanks for joining me on this first one. Steve. I'm going to start with you, to put it so,I'm going to start with you the same way I start with everybody, becauseI think it over time this is going to create a really interesting body ofinformation. I'll just ask you to define or talk about customer experience from yourperspective. Yeah, and you know, I was thinking about this, youknow, a lot lately and I don't know if I fully have this thisconcept flushed fleshed out, but it's something that that I believe and I'm startingto believe more and more as as we begin thinking about it this way forour company. But customer experience comes down to that exploration of a shared beliefand no matter where you are, no matter where the customers in that process, and this even spreads down to the employees, but it's exploring a potentialshared belief or an actual shared belief, and all the touch points throughout theentire life cycle is the exploration, either the advancement or the regression of thatshared belief based off of your actions and interactions that people have with the individualsin your company. So, for example, you have bombomb and we believe thatif people are in front of people more often they would do more businessthrough through video, and so that share belief is in all of our marketingmaterials. It's in our messaging that we send out, it's in our adsand that's what we use to hook people to engage with our brand. Right. And so if people are interested in that shared belief and we get themto believe the same thing, then they start exploring down the waterfall. Theyelements that lead lead up to that. It's like yeah, I am youknow, I am an important part of the process. I'm an important partof the sales or see US process. Now let me explore this company interms of how they can benefit me,...

...the process in which they can benefitmy you know, my business. The price to value, comparison and allthese other elements come in as you go. And then when they speak to asalesperson, does that salesperson share the same belief? For are the peopleon the same page? And then when they go back and look at themarketing material, does that convey the same message? And then when they buythe product, you know, and they have on boarding and they begin usingthe product, it's the exploration and still of that belief and how well youdo as a company to come along, it'side aside beside them and guide themalong that expiration. And then even when, if they're about to turn. It'slike, do they still believe fundamentally in what your product offers or areyou doing a bad job throughout the customer experience in building that up and gettingthem to understand the value that you're offering? And so, I don't know,was a really long answer, but it's I'm really believing in the explorationof a shared belief. I love it. I'm thinking about some of the really, really early adapters of our technology and our way of believing, seeingand practicing in the world, using video to get facetoface. I'm thinking aboutsome of those really early adopters who they just got it right, like theyalready had that belief. They maybe already had that frustration and saw a betterway and they and we just happen to fill the gap for them. Moreis other people we interact with need to understand the belief and then start toidentify with it. I it's really interesting language. I love it. Yeah, and when you see a passion within someone else, that Shared Passion Again, Oh my God, this person's passionate about our product and what they're doing. That makes the CS person passionate about it or the salesperson that sold tothem or people like us that speak with our customers, you know, ona daily basis, and it's just sharing and you know that that belief togetherwhich makes the great experience for the customer. So you talked about belief. Youtalked about a shared belief, shared across employees, communicated clearly and consistently, and then customers identifying with and being drawn into living out and or youalso offered regression, walking away from the belief because maybe it's not true forthem anymore. It reminds me of an idea that I know you're you're reallybig on. Recently we've been using this language a lot and talking about thework that we do, that we are repelled by confusion and attracted to clarity. When we are confused, were repelled as people, as humans, andwhen things are nice and simple and clear, were attracted to it. Can yougo on that for just a minus? I think it's related to the importanceof a consistent communication of the belief to be shared. Yeah, youknow, it's funny. That comes from Donald Miller in the story brand book, and there their their live classes and that's what that's what he states overand over and over again in his podcasts and it's funny. I am soattracted to some of the they're messaging and the things that they are doing overthere. It's story brand. And why is it? It's because we havea shared belief, right, and that's what I believe. I didn't quitearticulate it in the same way that Donald did and he did a much betterjob, and now I'm articulating in that same way. But it's through thatshared belief that that attracted me so much to to that message in the firstplace. And it's absolutely true. You know, your brain is the Zidesigned to survive and thrive and also reduce the amount of calories, because yourbrain, despite being only two percent of your body weight, actually takes uptwenty percent of your resting metabolic I don't think of get this right, metabolicrate. And so twenty percent, two percent of your body rate, butit takes up twenty percent of your calories is a better way to say.And so it requires a massive amount of calories. And so when the brainhas to think too hard or you're trying to make it jump through too manyhoops, then what's going to happen? Well, that's confusion, that's repellingright and how easy and how quickly can you convey what you want to sayyour products, value proposition, how you... the customer, how you helpthem solve problems? The faster that you can say that and communicate that,then that's your customers going to be drawn into that, to that clarity.And so our messaging, and I don't know how deep you want to getinto this topic, but everything from, you know, our emails we've beenrevamping, to our website. We've been revamping and some of it is justso plain simple. It's like we try to get so fancy with the headlineof, you know, of our websites and we we try to make ourselvesseem smart and fancy by having a statement when people just really want to knowwhat the heck you do at the very at the very top of your website. And it's like changing your mindset of not being fancy and just being straightand direct and forward. And that's what people enjoyed, because you're helping themcan serve calories and survive and thrive. I love it. It reminds meof another lesson we got out of this kind of exploring the themes of thestory brand, is that you know, this tendency to want to be cleverand in fancy and Fussy with our design, in our language, in the waywe position things, and I think tunneld set it this way at onepoint. Look at this fancy Ridd al I've made for you. I hopeyou enjoy it. Right like trying to figure out what I'm offering you,and and that that comes from a position of weakness and that we want toshow how smart and clever we are, when in fact the strongest thing youcan do is often a challenging and be perceived as boring, which is beingas straightforward as possible. Yeah, and to swing that back to like overallcustomer experience, it's applicable throughout every interaction that your company has. If someonephones in because they have a problem with your system or your product or yourservice for that matter, they don't want to convoluted answer. They want ananswer as quick as quickly as possible that solves their problem. And if youlook at it the same way, when you're trying to sell your product online, they don't want a fancy long answer. You Sho you want to distill yourmessaging, do down to the absolute bare necessity that conveys the value andthe problem that you overcome for for your customers as quickly and easily, youknow, as possible, and even in your inner departmental relationships and the relationshipswithin the office, people just want answers faster and they want clarity on everythingthat they do. So it's hard. It's hard right, just like photography. I took a took a photography class from one of the top ten weddingphotographers in the world and and it's the same concept. He said the bestphotos out there are the photos that remove all the unnecessary items and stick withthe main subject and make the main subjects stand out. And it's extremely difficultto remove all the unnecessary items and that's perfection. That is perfection. Youknow, in scheduling this with you, I wanted to make sure to tapinto something that I would argue you're very uniquely expert at. I. You'reone of the best speakers I've seen present. You've done it thousands of times,and so I thought for for a listeners. You know, whether you'representing to your own team or function or department, or whether you're presenting toan executive team or whether you're presenting do customers, whether it's by Webinar,in person, on phone, on Zoom, whatever the case may be, ina video email. I would love to get into just a couple valuepoints in terms of helping someone who maybe is not an accomplished or experienced presentermaybe get a little bit better. So talk about your audiences. Let's gowith a live audience, whether it's an, you can separate this if you wantto, in person or an online think about your audience as a customer. What do you you know, is your as you're preparing for a presentation, what are you trying to do in terms of delivering an experience for theaudience? The customer said audience a number of times, and that's that's actuallythe answer, and it's truly understanding your audience and why they're there and whatthey would like to learn. A lot of people will speak, you know, different webinars or live events, but...

...they don't know who their audience iscomprised of or the struggles that they might be trying to overcome and there intheir day to day, day to day business. And so at first ifyou understand your your audience and who's going to be there you can craft clearand better messaging that will help them, and that's and that's what that's what, ultimately, you're trying to do. You know, if you look atgetting on a stage, I most of the time I'm selling a product mostof the time when I get on the stage, but I don't start withthe premise of how can I sell the most products? That's not the questionthat I ask myself first. The question I ask myself first is how canI be a value to the audience that I'm speaking to? And once youidentify all the different points you can be of value, then you can figureout where you can intertwine, you know, a product because the product is helpingthem in some way, because you're most people that get on stage alwaystrying to sell something. Very rarely you going you you don't try to sellanything, whether it be a book or your product or your service or justthe continued exploration of a particular topic. So understanding your you know your audience, solving a problem for them and figuring and making that your thrust in themain goal for the presentation, even though what you might really want to dois sell a bunch of products and then making it clear and we can getsuper tactical. I don't know if you want to go that. Yeah,yeah, give us a few specifics. So two things come to mine rightoff the bat, and it's it's the beginning of your presentation. When youstart your presentation, it's okay to be a bit unclear and wind that backand be totally clear with what's going to happen with the rest of the presentation. And so being unclear opens up a story loop. It catches him offguard. It you might want to start off with a story that doesn't seemlike it relates to the topic that you go to and rather than getting onstage and popping on stage and saying hi, thank you so much for having mehere, I am so excited to speak with you. Is this Mikeon? By the way, you know that that first impressions terrible. Sogetting on stage not even introducing yourself has this is bad to say, buta lot of times I forget to even tell people who I am. It'swhy I always make sure I have it on the slide behind, because Ihop on stage and I get right into a story, like here's my dadsignature, and I'll have my dad signature on the on the screen behind meand people are like, I came to a class about video. Why welooking at his father's signature, and there's a tie in there. But itkeeps people engage. It opens up a story loop for them and you're differentin the first few minutes of the presentation than the other presenters. But afteryou do something like that, it's it's like the juxtaposition between something unexpected andthen something very expecting, because right after that you need to tell them exactlywhat the presentation is going to be about and exactly what they're going to walkaway from the presentation with. That also keeps them engaged throughout. Going backto clarity and the experience that people are having with you while you're on stage. People want to know what they're going to learn. Forty five minutes intothe presentation and if you're not opening up story loops and telling them like hey, here the three topics that we're going to go over, here's why thesetopics are going to benefit you and here's what you're going to be able todo after watching this presentation, that's a three step plan that makes this presentationextremely valuable and draws them in because they know the benefit right out of thegate and then you tell them what you're going to tell them and then atthe end you say, okay, here's what I promised that we would do. Did we do this? And you loop it back around. But whileyou're going through those examples, you can open up those story loops and I'mgoing to give you the four best ways that you can get people to openyour email, or I'm going to give you the five best ways to getpeople to play your video. Will talk about that in the third section.And it you know, it keeps people engaged throughout the process and makes itclear at the same time. I love it. Some really good tips inthere. If you missed it, hit that thirty second back and bounce backz you are some really gold nuggets in there about the way to structure yourpresentation, the way to think about your...

...audience. We've actually presented on stagetogether. That was probably one of the best presentations I've ever been a partof because of the that was the first time. It was one day atBombom we're like, okay, let's just present together there. That was amazing. It was really fun and we in in this a little bit counter towhat you should have shared when we got to the point of straight selling aproduct. That's true. Was it an ovation or was it a standing ovation? I don't remember. There's a few people that it wasn't. Not everyonehad a standing ovation, but we definitely had a few. Yeah, socrazy. That's when we released a video in Gmail to that particular community.But we solved the problem. We solve the problem there and it was ashared belief and it was a problem that they knew that they had and thatthat's what caused that right. It's totally like a strong physical and emotional reaction. It was amazing. So we've been on stage together, we've done aton of videos together. We've done some video training series together, like somedo, like an hour of training content, you know, with some back andforth, and so we've co authored a book called Rehumanize Your Business.How personal videos accelerate sales and improved customer experience. Talk a little bit aboutthat. A unique format to teach people about the the fundamental flaw of relyingexclusively on plane typed out text by giving them three hundred pages of plane typedout text. was some beautiful illustrations. Are Design team did a great job. But talk a little bit about the book. Why a book? WHYDOES IT Exist? Why should someone participate with it? What do you whatdo you love about it, and what's your relationship with books in general?Was a whole? That's a lot of questions. Quite well, first Iwant to say yes, we we co authored, but luckily for all thereaders of this amazing book, Ethan actually did the authoring, the in thetyping, actual typing of the message. I had a great time, youknow, with Ethan brainstorming topics, but Ethan is one of the most brilliantand amazing and he would never say this, or I want to give him theprops that he deserves. We would talk about topics, we brainstorm,we would outline and then Ethan would sit down and and just the most eloquentway, put everything that we talked about into words. And I think thebooks amazing because I see so much of your fingerprint on the book and YourPassion, you know, for the book and The Passion for video and peoplegetting facetoface, and that really is the most exciting, and I told Ethanthis, but like that was one of the most exciting several months working withEthan on a daily basis and and feeling his passion come through in words,because you are one of the best writers I've ever met. So thank you. It's very kind. Yeah, so one that was fun for me too. You know, it's like a it's like a paradox, I guess.You know, as you mentioned, talking about video in a book format.But people learn in different ways, right, and the video that we talked aboutis fundamentally different in the delivery then a video that would be about thisbook, because the main premise here is or the the the two that's notbattling. Use both. But we talked about relationships through video and marketing throughvideo and if we were to take all the information that we put into thisbook and made a video, it would strictly be about marketing through video.And where we really focused and dial it in within the book is short formvideo messaging, quick messages to relay something more effectively, relay or convey emotion, connect in the sales or see US process on a one to one emotionallevel, not a mass marketing piece, and so that that's one way thatthe book does provide, you know, a better format, because the bookis all about the short form video messages, not three hour, four hour,seven hour. I mean if we...

...were to do the book in avideo, it would be an eighthour video, right. And so so it wasfun putting it down into words and really thinking it through and allows peopleto see a process, you know, on the page. Some people arevisual and they need to see the process and see the triggers of one touse video throughout their daytoday business. And we break it down into four partsof why they would want to use video, when to use video, how touse video and and getting better results, and those four segments right there.It's just a nice little transition from one topic to the other and Ido think the book for a format is a great way to convey that andget people excited. Now course we have amazing digital training assets online where peoplecan Ben Watch the videos and then get the guides and they work hand inhand. So it's not just a book. You're getting something much greater than abook that you can sit down and read and re read over and overagain when you need some motivation. But you're getting those digital assets with thevideos so you can continue your education. That question, I don't know.Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was basically. Basically, that was mylongwitted way of saying, Hey, talk about that, this thing, talkabout that. Yeah, it's really fun. I think of it a little bitas a celebration. I mean, we've come so far with and forand through our customers. So we have about forty different customers mentioned in itas specific stories and examples, and it's just is. It was fun forme too. I really enjoyed working with you and and taking the very bestfrom the stories that we teach, the examples that we share, the blogpost, the webinars, the stage presentations, the frameworks, the structures for whatdo you do? What do you do when you send a video emailand no one opens it? What do you do if they open it butdon't play the video? What do they do if they play the video butthey don't reply? All these things that we've learned over, well, it'smore than a decade that we've been doing this together, and so, yeah, it's really fun. II. The other thing, I think too,is it in a way it meets people where they are. Right like alot of people who are very comfortable or reliant on text or comfortable working withtext and consuming it in an addition to producing it. And so it wasfun to try to capture the spirit of the of a video or even likethis alive conversation in the written word. So, yeah, it was greatand I will say it would have been a much more boring and academic bookwithout your participation, much more readable and and really value late, and Imean you really challenge throughout the whole thing, pressing in on you know, where'sthe reader value here? Hey, it's been too long since. Hey, we should inject some of this here kind of thing. And so it'sa it's a it's teamwork because it's just a longer presentation. Is it's thesame. It's the same methodology, right, it's the same thought process and gettingin the book. And just like on stage, like if someone's notwriting something down or someone's not laughing every three to five minutes at a minimum, then you need to inject some more value in that and it's the samething with the book. If someone doesn't have an Aha moment or writing somethingdown, you know x amount of time, then provide some value keep them engaged. It's another great presentation tip right there. Yeah, so good.Yeah, keep an eye on the audience sometimes it's hard, right. So, just going back to presenting, when you're up on stage and all thelights are on and, let's see, you're in a room of, saya bigger room, let's say a room of, you know, four fivehundred people to you know, beyond that, like any any room that's for fivehundred people, it's going to be lit in such a way that it'shard to see the audience. Yeah, how do you deal with that?How do you? How do you, because I know, I know fromwatching you, that you do interact with the audience, even if it's notin like a really direct, overt explicit way. You know, there's alot of interaction there that you draw from that. You look for that audiencegive back or engagement. How do you do that with all those massive lightson? Yeah, well, you need to get a get some audible feedback. Then, of course, a lot of times you can still see thesedays, people hold up their their phones...

...and you can see the phones,you can see a little reflections off the shiny phones of people are holding upsake photos, and that counts as one of those three to five minute elements. But how it's how you start the presentation to and getting people to respondto you quickly. Another you know, another nice tip is get some typeof interaction or agreement or audience members saying things allowed as soon as you startthe presentation, within the first several minutes, because if you wait a half hourand you try to get the audience to participate with you a half hourin, it's going to be hard. But if you hit him with somethingprovocative right off the bat, he told them a story, you started yourpresentation differently and then you got them to agree with you about something and yousay give me a huh if you believe this, and they'll say uh Huh. Right out of the gate. You got them to verbalize, you know, some responses for you and that will continue throughout the entire presentation and theyexperience. Tying us all back to experience is going to be better for thembecause every time that they do something different, every time you which topics, theirbrain starts paying attention again. Every time they say something, it's likea restart and their brain starts paying attention again, or every time they laughit's a pause and a restart in their brain starts paying attention again. Andso after you get one of those moments, what you say directly after is thething that the people are going to remember, so you can strategically placethose throughout. None over going late. Now, that was great, Ilike. I love that you wove shared belief in there. You also kindof did a drive by on something that we talked about in a variety ofways, which is that every email you send trains people to open or deleteyour next email, and that's what you're really offering there. It's the samething with the book, right, like every sentence, for every paragraph iswhat is going to draw someone through, and these moments of engagement where youdraw the attention back to you as a presenter, resets people and draws themback into the presentation. Against really good stuff. Hey, as you wellknow, relationships are our number one core value here at bomb and we workthat out here on the customer experience podcast as well. So I want togive you a chance, as we're wrapping up here, to think or mentionsomeone who's had a positive impact on your life or your career. Okay,and a company who you think is doing customer experience really well. Okay,at the risk of sounding to cheesy, but it's connor and Darren for thefounders of bombomb for believing in me so much and bringing me over to theteam. They had a major, major impact you. I grew so muchat bombomb in the first like two years and I did in the previous datefive years, that it was doing the same thing each and every day andit was a lot of marketing. There's a lot of sales, but itwas the same thing with the scent, you know, with the same group, and then doing something entirely different and having the support even through the successesand the failures, and still having that support throughout the entire process and workingas a team. Like the team environment and the introduction to the rest ofthe team, and you like that. Bombomb has, you know, bombombin, the people at bombomb and of Putten, the cofounders of really bitmy inspiration and people that I want to thank. It's awesome and I agreeand I'm glad you're here. Talk about a company. Some people give morethan one, but a company that you've had a really good experience with.Someone that comes to mind. There's a little embarrassing. I like boots anything. You know this. I mean you've nonmals were like I like shoose.But, but, but boots in general. For some reason I just I reallydig boots. And so taft is an online company that's a direct toconsumer company provides an amazing experience, and not just through sometimes, when Ibuy a pair of boots for them or pair of shoes, I get anice little handwritten note. So there's a an awesome it's an awesome feeling whenyou know that someone sat down and they say, Oh, I hope youenjoy your new such and such shoes.

Let us know if you have anyquestions, like when you get the box in the mail, like that's amazing. But also the experience that they have. The the reason why I'm so fanaticalabout the the brand and the company is their social media. The foundercomes on all the time. He shares his family, his you know,his daughter like comes in and they do these instagram posts about how they choosethe shoes and how they make the the boots and and the people and thecustomers and it's all about the people at the company and their plate and it'sjust so awesome to be invited, you know, into into the story andhave that shared story with them because, Hey, I got a family toand hey, we're building something special over here as well, and hey,you make an awesome product. At the same time. It's they're doing everythingright, that's for sure. Taft, Taft. Yeah, yeah, tiftto taft, original, I think is is the website. Awesome. Loveit. Now I had, you know, the answers to these because we communicateall the time. But for the folks who are listening, how cansomeone connect with you or connect with bombomb or check out a book? Yes, that's bombombcom for bombomb the books, that Bombombcom Book and you can getmore information about the book, the value the book provides, and it reallyclear and concise way that hopefully matches your beliefs. It's your goals. Atthe at the same time, anybody can connect with me, you know,on facebook or on twitter, and it's Steve Passionelli PAC and Eli. Soit's fbcom Steve Passonelli or at Steve Passonelli on twitter, or have instagram.I think I'm Steve Passonelia at instagram. I'm is instagram. Lurker like forTaft and you and I follow stuff that you do. I don't post thatoften instagram, but I have a lurker so feel free to connect on instagramif you want. A lurker, I guess Nice. I appreciate it.This was fun. We talk all the time, but we donn't always recordit. Probably for the best, but I hope folks found value. Iknow I loved a lot of your presentation tips. I really appreciate your timeand I hope you have a great afternoon. Thanks you for thanks for having meon. You're listening to the customer experience podcast. No matter your rolein delivering value and serving customers, you're entrusting some of your most important andvaluable messages to faceless digital communication. You can do better. rehumanize the experienceby getting face to face through simple personal videos. Learn more and get startedfree at bomb bombcom. You've been listening to the customer experience podcast. Toensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favoritepodcast player or visit bomb bombcom. Thank you so much for listening. Untilnext time,.

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