The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

6. Be a Problem-Solver, Not a Seller w/ Steve Pacinelli


How do you get people to pay attention to your message?

Whether you’re selling to a customer online or speaking in front of a live audience, you need to create a shared belief about what the other person will be getting out of it.  

To deep dive into that concept, I spoke with Steve Pacinelli, the CMO at BombBomb who is my co-author of our book Rehumanize Your Business: How Personal Videos Accelerate Sales and Improve Customer Experience.

Here are some highlights of what we discussed.

  • Customer Experience as the Exploration of a Shared Belief
  • Enthusiasm Is Contagious
  • Making Yourself Valuable to Your Audience
  • Keep Your Audience Interested
  • Little Things That Make a Big Difference


And when you see a passion withinsomeone else that shared passion again o I got this person's passionate aboutour product and what they're doing that makes the CS person passionate about itor the sales person that sold to them or people like us that speak with ourcustomers. You know on a daily basis, and it's just sharing in that belieftogether, which makes the great experience for the Customr you're. Listening to the customerexperience podcast a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businessesrestore a personal human touch throughout the customer line cycle, getready to hear how sales marketing and customer success experts surprise anddelight and never lose sign of their customers. Humanity here is your hostbeef and beaute. Welcome it to a bonus episode of thecustomer experience podcast. Every week you hear from me marketing salescustomer success, branding or another functional expert about how they'rebuilding better customer experience across roles and across functionsinside their organizations and withand for their clients, but once a monthyou're going to go inside Bombam we're software company and we're trying, ofcourse, to build a better customer experience as well, and this is thefirst monus episode that you're going to get you'll get one every singlemonth here I've got a longtime friend a gentleman I have known for years. Hewas a bombom customer before he became our chief marketing officer a rule heserved in for more than four years prior to that. He spent a dozen yearsleading outside sales teams for reeltorcom he's traveled all over theplace. He's given thousands of presentations he's my coauthor onRehumanize, your business, the definitive guide to simple personalvideos to accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Steve Passonelliwelcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you for having me, thenI you know as being a bonus. You know that makes me it makes me happy thatthat I'm the bonus of the of the session totally yeah- I mean everyTuesday you're going to get something new, but will surprise you once a monthwith a bonus and thanks for joiningme on this first one seen, I'm GOINGTOSTART GNTO put it. So I'm going to start with you the sameway. I start with everybody, because I think over time this is going to createa really interesting body of information. I'll, just ask you todefine or talk about customer experience from your perspective. Yeah-and you know I was thinking about this. You know a lot lately and I don't knowif I've fully have this this concept fleshd fleshed out, but it's somethingthat that I believe and I'm starting to believe more and more as as we beginthinking about it, this way for our company. But customer experience comesdown to that exploration of a shared belief and no matter where you are nomatter where the customer is in that process and this even spreads down tothe employees. But it's exploring a potential shared belief or an actualshare belief and all the touchpoints throughout the entire life cycle is theexploration either the advancement or the regression of that shared beliefbased off of your actions and interactions that people have with theindividuals in your company. So, for example, you have bombamb and webelieve that if people are in front of people more often they would do morebusiness. You K ow through through video, and so that share belief is inall of our marketing materials. It's in our messaging that we send out it's inour ads and that's what we use Tho Hook, people to engage with o brand right,and so if people are interested in that share belief and we get them to believethe same thing, then they start exploring down the waterfall theelements that lead meed up to that it's like yeah- I am you know I am animportant part of the process, I'm an important part of the sales or CSprocess. Now let me explore this company in terms of how they can benefit me, the process inwhich they can benefit. My you know my..., the price, the valuecomparison that all these other elements come in as you go and then,when they speak to a salesperson, does that sales person share the same beliefor e? Are The people on the same page and then when they go back and look atthe marketing material? Does that convey the same message and then whenthey buy the product, you know they have onboarding and they begin usingthe product. It's the exploration still of that belief and how? Well you do asa company to come along an Si aside, ther beside them and guide them alongthat exporation and then even when, if they're about to turn it's like, dothey still believe fundamentally and what your product offers, or are youdoing a bad job throughout the custmer experience in building that up andgetting them to understand the value that you're offering and so itwas areally long answer? But it's I'm really believing in the exploration of ashared belief. I love it. I'm thinking about some of the really really earlyadapters of our technology and our way of believing seeing and practicing inthe world using video to get face to face I'm thinking about some of thosereally early adapters, who they just got it right, like they already hadthat belief. They maybe already had that frustration and saw a better wayand they and we just happened to fill the gap for them mhores other people weinteract with, need to understand the belief and then start to identify withit. It's a really interesting language. I love it yeah and when you see apassion within someone else that shared passion again, O Wa got this person'spassionate about our product and what they're doing that makes the CS personpassionate about it or the sales person that sold t them or people like us thatspeak with teur customers. You know on a daily basis and it's just sharing,and you know that that belief together, which makes the great experience forthe customer. So you talked about belief. You talked about a sharedbelief, shared across employees communicated clearly and consistently,and then customers identifying with and being drawn into living out and or youalso offered regression walking away from the belief, because, maybe it'snot true for them anymore. It reminds me of an idea that I know yyou're really big on recently, we've been using this language a lot andtalking about the work that we do, that we are repelled by confusion andattracted declarity when we are confused we're repelled as people ashumans, and when things are nice and simple and clear were attracted to it.Can you go on that for just a minitebecause? I think it's related tothe importance of a consistent communication of the belief to beshared yeah. You know it's funny that comes from Donald Miller in thestorybrand book and R, their their live classes and that's what that's what hestays over and over and over again in his podcast, and it's funny I am soattracted to some of the so their messaging and the things that they aredoing over there. It's storybrand, and why is it it's because we have a sharedbelief right and that's what I believe. I didn't quite articulate it in thesame way that that Donald did and he did a much better job and now I'marticulating in that same way. But it's through that share belief. Thatattracted me so much to to that message in the first place- and it's absolutelytrue- you know your brain is desi designed to survive and thrive and alsoreduce the amount of calories, because your brain, despite being only twopercent of your body weight, actually takes up twenty percent of your restingmetabolic, I'm going to think iud get this right, metabolic rat and so twentypercent, two percent of your body rate, but it takes up. Twenty percent of yourcalories is a better way to say, and so it requires a massive amount ofcalories, and so when the brain has to think too hard or you're trying to makeit jump through too many hoops. Then what's going to happen. Well, that'sconfusion. That's repelling right and how easy? And how quickly can youconvey what you want to say? Your products value proposition, how youhelp the customer, how you help...

...themsolve problems, the faster t atthat you can say that and communicate that, then that's your customers goingto be drawn into that to that clarity, and so our messaging- and I don't knowhow deep he want to get into this topic. But everything from you know our emails,we've been revamping to our website, we've been revamping, and then some ofit is just so playing simple. It's like we try to get so fancy with theheadline of you know of our websites and we try to make ourselves seem smartand fancy by having a statement when people just really want to know whatthe heck you do at that very at the very top of your website, and it's likechanging your mindset of not being fancy and just being straight anddirect and forward, and that's what people enjoy, because you're helpingthem conserve, calories and survivind thrive. I love it. It reminds me ofanother lesson we got out of this kind of exploring the themes of the story.Brand is that you know this tendency to want to be clever and and fancy andFussy with our design and our language and the way we position things, and Ithink Donald said it. This way at one point, look at this fancy riddle I'vemade for you. I hope you enjoy it right, like ty to eure out what I'm offeringyou and and that that comes from a position of weakness and that we wantto show how smart and clever we are when, in fact, the strongest thing youcan do is often a challenging and b perceived as boring, which is being asstraightforward as possible yeah and to swing that back to like overallcustomer experience, it's applicable throughout every interaction that yourcompany has. If someone phones in because they have a problem with yoursystem or your product or your service for that matter, they don't want toconvolute ad answer. They want an answer as quick as quickly as possiblethat solves their problem, and if you look at it the same way when you'retrying to sell your product online, they don't want a fancy. Long answeryou, you want to distill your messaging down to the absolute bare necessitythat conveys the value and the problem that you overcome for for yourcustomers as quickly and easily. You know as possible and even in your youknow, interdepartmental relationships and the relationships within the office.People just want answers faster and they want clarity on everything thatthey do. So it's hard it's hard right. Just like a photography. I took a tooka photography class from one of the top time wedding photographers in the worldand and it's the same concept. He said the best photos out there, r the photosthat remove all the unnecessary items and stick with the main subject andmake the main subject stand out and it's extremely difficult to remove allthe unnecessary items, and that's perfection that is perfection. You know,ind scheduling this with you. I wanted to make sure to tap into something thatI would argue you're very uniquely expert, Ada you're, one of the bestspeakers. I've seen present. You've done it thousands of times, and so Ithought for for listeners. You know whether you're presenting to your ownteam or function or department, or whether you're presenting to anexecutive team or whether you're presenting do customers, whether it'sby Webenar in person on phone on zoom, whatever the case may be in a videoemail. I would love to get into just a couple value points in terms of helpingsomeone who, maybe is not an accomplished or experienced presentor,maybe get a little bit better. So talk about your audiences, let's go with alive audience whether it's and you can separate this. If you want to in personor online think about your audience as a customer. What do you, you know is R,as you're preparing for a presentation? What are you trying to do in terms ofdelivering an experience for the audience? The customer we said audiencea number of times and that's that's actually the answer and it's trulyunderstanding your audience and why they're there and what they would liketo learn. A lot of people will speak, O know in different webinars or liveevents, but they don't know who their...

...audiences is comprised of or thestruggles that they might be trying to overcome in their? U knowing their daytoday day today, business and so at. First, if you understand your audienceand who's going to be there, you can craft, clear and better messaging thatwill help them and that's and that's what that's way ultimately you'retrying to do. You know if you look at getting on a stage I most of the timeI'm selling a product most of the time n when I get on the stage, but I don'tstart with the premise of how can I sell the most products? That's not thequestion that I askd myself. First, the question I ask myself first, is: Howcan I be a value to the audience that I'm speaking to and once you identifyall the different points you can be of value, then you can figure out whereyou can intertwine. You know a product ECAUSE, the product is helping them insome way, because Youre most people that get on stage ore always trying tosell something. You very grarely gain youneed. You don't try to sell anything,whether O be a book or your product or your service, or just the continueexploration of a particular topic. So understanding your you know youraudience: Solving a problem for them and figuring and making that yourthrust in the main goal for the presentation, even though what youmight really want to do is sell a bunch of products and then making it clearand we can get super tactical. I don't know if you want it, go to yeah yeah,give us a few specifics. So two things come to Mi right off the bat and it's the beginning of your presentation.When you start your presentation, it's okay to be a bit unclear and wind. That back and be totallyclear with what's going to happen with the rest of the presentation and sobeing unclear opens up a story loop. It catches them off, guard it ow. Youmight want to start uff with a story that doesn't seem like it relates tothe topic that you go to, and rather than getting on stage and hopping onstage and saying hi. Thank you so much for having me here. I am so excited tospeak with. You is this Mike on by the way you know that that firstimpressions, terrible so getting on stage N, not even introducing yourselfHa. This is bad to say, but a lot of times I forget to even tell people whoI am as sy. I always make sure I have it on the slide behind, because I hapon stage and I get grait into a story like here's, my dad's signature andI'll have my dad's signature on the on the screen behind me and people arelike. I came to a class about video. Why are we looking at his folersignature and there's a tie in there, but it keeps people engage, opens up astory, look for them and you're different in the first few minutes ofthe presentation than the other presenters. But after you do somethinglike that, it's it's. Like e Jects the position between something unexpectedand then something very expected, because, right after that, you need totell them exactly what the presentationis going to be about andexactly what they're going to walk away from the presentation with that alsokeeps them engaged throughout. Going back to clarity and the experience thatpeople are having with you while you're on stage, people want to know whatthey're going to learn. Forty five minutes into the presentation and ifyou're, not opening up story loops and telling them like hey here, the threetopics that we're going to go over: here's, why these topics are going tobenefit you and here's? What you're going to be able to do after watchingthis presentation? That's a three step plan that makes this presentationextremely valuable and draws them in because they know the benefit right outof the gate. And then you tell them what you're going to tell them and thenat the end you say: okay, here's what I promise that we would do! Did we dothis and you looved it back around. But while you're going through thoseexamples, you can open up those story loops and I'm going to give you thefour best ways that you can get people to open your email or I'm going to giveyou the five best ways to get people to play. Your video we'll talk about thatin the third section, and you know it keeps wo, go engaged throughout theprocess and makes it clear at the same time. I love it. Some really good tipsin there if you missed it, hit that thirty. Second back and bounce back Bas,there are some really gold nuggets in there about the way to structure yourpresentation, the way to think about...

...your audience, we've actually presentedon stage together. That is probably one of the best presentations I've everbeen a part of because of the that was the first time it was one day at Bombamwere like okay, let's just present together, that was amazing, was reallyfun, and we in in this a little bit counter to what you just shared. Whenwe got to the point of straight selling a product woos for was it an ovation.Was a standing ovation, I don't remember: There was a few people thatit wasn't not. Everyone had a standing ovation, but we definitely had a fewyeah, it's so crazy thatwas when we released video and Gmail to thatparticular community. But we solved the PROB. We solved the problem there andit was a shared belief and it was a problem that they knew that they hadand that that's what cause that right. It's totally like a strong physical andemotional reaction. It was amazing, so we've been on stage together. We'vedone a ton of videos. Together, we've done some video training seriestogether, like somede like an hour of training content. You know with someback and forth and so we've cllottered a book called Rehumanizeur business,how personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience talk alittle bit about that a unique format to teach people about the thefundamental flaw of relying exclusively on plane, typed out text by giving them three hundred pages ofplane, typt out text, some beautiful illustrations, our design team did agreat job, but talk a little bit about the book. Why a book? WHY DOES IT Exist?Why should someone participate with it? What do you? What do you love about itand what's your relationship with books in general, HOS whole Thas, qeions quit wl. First,I want to say: Yes, we we co all third, but luckily, for all the readers ofthis amazing book, ethen actually did the authoring in he and the typingactual typing of the message. I had a great time. You know with ethenbrainstorming topics, but Evin is one of the most brilliant and amazing andHeu would never say this or I'm going to give him the props that he deserves,and we would talk about topics wo brainstorm. We would outline and thenetthing would sit down and and just the most eloquent way put everything thatwe talked about into words and I think the books amazing, because I see somuch of your fingerprint on the book and Your Passion. You know for the bookand The Passion for video and people getting faced to face, and that reallyis the most exciting- and I told E in this, but like that, was one of themost exciting several months. Working with ethon on a daily basis and andfeeling has passion, Ol come through in words, because you were one of the bestwriters I've ever met. So thank you. That's very kind yea, so one that was fun for me to you knowit's like a it's like a paradox. I guess you know,as you mentioned talking about video in a book format, but people learn indifferent ways right and the video that we talk about is fundamentally different in the deliverythan a video that would be about this book, because the main premise here isor the m the two TAT's not battling you use both, but we talkd aboutrelationships through video and marketing through video, and if we wereto take all the information that we put into this book and made a video, itwould corrictly be about marketing through video and where we really focusand dilit in within the book, because short form, video messaging, quickmessages to relay something more effectively relay or convey ofmotionconnect in the sales or CS process on a one o one emotional level, not a massmarketing piece, and so that that's one way that the book does provide. Youknow a better format, because the book is all about these short form, videomessages, not three hour. Four hour... hour I mean I we were to do thebook in a video. It would be a eight hour, video right, and so so it was fun,putting it down into words and really thinking it through and allows peopleto see a process. You know on the page, some people are visual and they need tosee the process and see the triggers of one to use video throughout their dayto day business, and we break it down into four parts of of why they want touse video when to use video, how to use video and and getting better resultsand those four segments right there. It's just a nice little transition fromone topic to the other, and I do think the book for format is a great way toconvey that and get people excited now. Of course, we have amazing digialtraining assets online, where people can then watch the videos and then getthe guides and they work hand in hand. So it's not just a boot you're, gettingsomething much greater than a book that you can sit down and read and rereadover and over again, when you need some motivation but you're getting thosedigital assets with the video. So you can continue your education, Riquestion. I don't know yeah yeah, I d yeah. It was basically basically thatwas my long wiged way of saying. Hey talk about that. This thing talk about that yeah. It'sreally fun. I think of it a little bit as a celebration. I mean we've come sofar with and for and through our customers. So we have about fortydifferent customers mentioned in. It is specific stories and examples, and it'sjust is. It was fun for me to. I really enjoyed working with you and taking thevery best from the stories that we teach the examples that we share: Theblog post, the webinars, the stage presentations, the frameworks, thestructures for what do you do? What do you do when you send a video email? ANo one opens it. What do you do if they open it? It don't play the video. Whatdo they do if they play the video, but they don't reply all these things thatwe've learned over it's more than a decade that we've been doing thistogether, eotal and so yeah, it's really fun. I the other thing. I thinktoo is that in a way it meets people where they are right, like a lot ofpeople who are very comfortable or reliant on text or comfortable workingwith text and consuming it in addition to producing it, and so it is fun totry to capture the spirit of the of a video or even like this, a liveconversation in the written word so yeah it was great and I will say itwould have been a much more boring and academic book without yourparticipation, much more readable and and reallyvaluated, I mean you really challenge yrouout the whole thing pressing in onyou know: Where's the reader values here, hey it's been too long since hey.We should inject some of this here kind of thing, and so it's a it's a yeah.It's teamwork, Becaus! It's just a longer presentation. T A is it's thesay: It's the same meddology right. It's the same thought process andgetting in the book and just like on stage like, if someone's, not writingsomething down or someone's, not laughing every three to five minutes atof minimum, then you need to inject more value in that and it's the samething with the book. If someone doesn't have an Ahi moment or writing somethingdown, you know with x amount of time. Then you got to provide some value.Keep them engaged. It's another great presentation tip right there, yeah, sogood yeah, keep it Ey on the audince. Sometimes it's hard right, so justgoing back to presenting when you're up on stage and all the lights are on andlet's Se you're in a room of, say, a bigger room. Let's say a room of youknow four five hundred people to you know beyond that. Like any any room,this four or five hundred people is going to be lit in such a way that it'shard to see the audience yeah. How do you deal with that? How do you? How doyou- because I know I know from watching you- that you do interact withthe audience? Even if it's not in like a really direct overt eplicit way, Iknew there's a lot of interaction there that you draw from that and you lookfor that audience, giveback or engagement. How do you do that with allthose massive lights on yeah? Well, he need to get get some audiblefeedback. Then, of course, a lot of times. You can still see these days.People hold up their their phones and... can see the phones. You can seelittle reflections off the shiny phones at people are holding up sick photosand that counts as one of those three to five minute elements, but it'sHowit's how you start the presentation to and getting people to respond to youquickly. Another you know, another nice tip is get some type of interaction oragreement or audience members saying things allowed as soon as you start thepresentation within the first several minutes, because if you wait a halfhour and you try to get the audience to participate with you a half hour init's going to be hard, but if you hit him with something pobaccative rightoff the back, you told them a story. You started your presentationdifferently, and then you got them to agree with you about something, and yousay give me: Aha, if you believe this and they'll say: Oh Ha right out of thegate, you got them to verbalize. You know some responses for you and thatwill continue throughout the entire presentation and the experience tyingus all back to experience is going to be better for them, because every timethat they do something different every time you switch topics, their brainstarts, paying attention again, every time they say something. It's like arestart and their brain starts paying attention again or every time theylaugh. It's a pause and a restart, and the brain starts paying attention again,and so after you get one of those moments, what you say directly after isthe thing that the people are going to remember, so you can strategicallyplace those throughout now. I know we're going Wa now. That was great. I,like I love that you wove shared belief in there. You also kind of did a driveby on something that we talk about in a variety of ways, which is that everyemail you send trains, people to open or delete your next email and that'swhat you're really offering there it's the same thing with the book right likeevery sentence for every paragraph, is what is going to draw someone throughand these moments of engagement, where you draw the attention back to you as apresenter Le Sets people and draws them back into the presentation. Geins,really good, stuff het. As you well know, relationships are ournumber one core value here at Bombam and we workd that out here on thecustomer experience podcast as well. So I want to give you a chance as we'rewrapping up here to think or mention someone. Who's had a positive impact onyour life or your career and a company who you think is doing. Customerexperience really well, okay at the risk of of sounding to cheesy.But it's you know conter and Daren for the founders of Bombam, for believingin me so much in bringing me over to the team. They had a major major impact.You know I grew so much at Bombam in the first like two years and I did inthe previous duy five years that it was doing the same thing each and every day,and it was a lot of marketing. There was a lot of sales, but it was the samething with the San. You know with the same group and then doing somethingentirely different and having the support, even through the successes andthe failures and still having that support throughout the entire processand working as a team like the team environment and the you know,introducton to the rest of the team, and you like that bombamb has you know:Bobam Ind, the people at Bombom that have quin the cofounders have reallybeen my inspiration and people that I want to think. It's awesome and I agree,and I'm glad you're here talk about a company. Some people givemore than one but a company that you've had a really good experience withsomeone that comes to mind it's a little embarrassing. I likeboots anything. You know this. I mean yeas noals for like I like shoes, butbut but boots in general. For some reason I just really dig boots, and sotaft is an online company. That's a Directto. Consumer Company provides anamazing experience and not just through. Sometimes when I buy a pair of bootsfor them or pair of shoes. I get a nice little handwritten note. So there is aan awesome: it's an awesome feeling when, when you know that someone satdown, they say, Oh, I hope you enjoy your new such and such shoose. You know,let us know if you have any questions... when you get the box in the mail,like that's amazing, but also the experience that they have t. The reasonwhy ' m so fanatical about the the brand and the company is there'r socialmedia. The founder comes on all the time. He shares his family, his youknow his daughter like comes in and they do these instagram posts about howthey choose the shoes and how they make the boots and and the people and thecustomers, and it's all about the people at the company and their Plihe,and it's just so awesome to be invited. You know into into the story and havethat shared story with them because hey I got a family to and hey we'rebuilding something special over here as well and hey. You make an awesomeproduct at the same time, ind they're doing everything right, that's for sure, taft, taft, yeah, yeah, Taftt, taftoriginal. I think is: Is the website awesome love it now? I halready knowthe answers to these because we communicate all the time, but for thefolks who are listening, how can someone connect with you or connectwith Bombam or check out t e book? Yes, that's bomboncom for Bombam thebooks at Bombomcom Book and You can get more information about the book. Thevalue the book provides, and I really clear and concise way that hopefullymatches your beliefs tat your goals at the. At the same time, anybody couldcact with me. You know on facebook ar on twitter and it's a Steve PessonelliPAC, ine lli, so it's fbcom, tieve Pessonaly or at Steve Personelity ontwitter or I have an instagram. I think I'm Steve Passonalia Instagram, I'm sinstagram Lurker, like her taft and you and I follow the stuff that you do. Idon't post that often th instagram, but I have a lurker so feel free to toconnect on Isthegram. If you want to Lurker, I guess I appreciate it. This was fun. We talkall the time, but we don't always recit, probably for the best, but I hope folksfound value. I know I loved a lot of your presentation tips. I reallyappreciate your time and I hope you have a great afternoon I Seeu Tho backsfor having me on Youare. Listening to the customerexperience podcast, no matter your role in delivering value and servingcustomers. Youre intrusting, some of your most important and valuablemessages to faceless digital communication. You can do betterrehumonize. The experience by getting face to face through simple personalvideos, learn more and get started. Free at Bom, Bomcom you've beenlistening to the customer experience podcast to ensure that you never missan episode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player or visitBom bomcom. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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