The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

60. The Context Marketing Revolution w/ Mathew Sweezey

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

As the customer experience evolves, so do our motives.

Consumers are no longer motivated by a great piece of content (if they ever were). They’re motivated as long as you can offer them the best solution at the most essential time.

In fact, the director of market strategy at Salesforce — Mathew Sweezey — wrote an entire book on what exactly goes into context marketing. That book, entitled Context Marketing Revolution: How to Motivate Buyers in the Age of Infinite Media, lays out in detail how marketers can break through the world of endless noise we’ve built.

Luckily for us, Mathew was kind enough to hop on The Customer Experience Podcast and answer a few questions.

What we talk about:

  • Why collaboration and executive buy-in make for top marketing performers
  • How businesses can grow by way of holistic customer experience
  • The origin of his new book, Context Marketing Revolution
  • Why we’ve become immune to attention-based marketing
  • How to take a human-centered approach to marketing
  • The benefits of using video in a holistic CX

Resources mentioned in this episode:

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It doesn't matter which one you chooseit just matters that you have the executive buy in to be inclusive and bea bridge builder between all experiences to make sure they're,consistent and holistic, and that's the new pathway to grow. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host eat them, Baute asking. How can we make our marketing better is thewrong question. Instead, we need to ask: Why isn't our marketing working whenyou ask why you get much different answers and that question and thoseanswers are at the heart of the work being done by today's guest he's beenat sales force for seven and a half years, initially, as an evangelist andpresently as Principale of marketing insights, he's the author of marketingautomation for Dummies and the context, Marketing Revolution and new book thatI've already preordered. I'm really looking forward to he's the producerand host of the Electronic Propaganda Society, a smart, valuable and even fun.PODCAST series that rightfully earned a stack of awards he's a contributingwriter for sites like Forbes Marketing, props and convincand convert he's afrequent keynote speaker who I finally saw speak and finally met in person atdream, forus recently and he's the cofounder of o Brewery Matthew, Sweezye.Welcome to the customer experience podcast thank Dethin for having me yeah,really looking forward to the conversation before we get goand. Justtell me a little bit about even tide brewing in Atlanta, how that cometogether? What's that, look like the craft brewery that me and a fewother friends started. We just had our. We just celebrated oursixth aniversary, beginning of this month, an yeah, so I mean it's justkind of tag line. It's great does't have be complicated, just a few friendsmaking good beaters and we sell all across the state of Georgia awesome. Iwill look for it when I get down to Georgia, which I'm planning to do thesummer. It's a separate story. Let's start where we always start onthe podcast, and you have such a unique perspective on it, no well researchperspective, but we'll start the way I always ask it, which is your thoughtsor characteristics or your definition of customer experience. Yes, there'stwo ways to answer that question: one is it's not up for me to define it's upfor each of our customers to defined in their own way, and I think that'sactually what the definition is. It's. What is someone perceive that they wantthe experience to be? I think we understand that and then the flip sideis then, how do we as a brand fulfill that and to me the experience is alwaysthe sum of all parts right. It's not one thing: it's Ju, some of everythingthat we do and we can use the term across the customer journey, but it'sinclusive of marketing. It's inclusive of product experience, product use,support service. So to me I would put a capital ty in a capitale on theexperience and assume that it's the sum of all things that we do love it. Ittouches on so many themes that people share, but you capture really concisefashion there, and you talked about the entire customer life cycle there andsome of the research that you've done with some folks at sales force showsthat high performing marketing organizations are seventeen timesbetter at collaborating across other departments. Like you mentioned salesservice product etcea talk a little bit about that research and some of thetips that come out of it for folks who are listening, how can we collaboratebetter, whether you're, a MARKETR or not? The collaboration goes both way,so give some give a little bit more context there and maybe some tips forpeople yeah, so the research. So every year sales force we do a state ofmarketing and over the past five years, the focus of that effort has reallybeen to identify the key trace between hyperforming marketing organizationsand everyone else, and just soorder ones clear. These hype, performers areradically outperforming they're, ten times more likely to be significantlybeating their direct competition, and...

...then we start looking at one of thosefactors like how are they actually able to do that and, as you noticed, one ofthe larger factors with this idea of collaboration to the number one keytrait of all hype, performers is executive, buy into a new idea ofmarketing. That's very much in line with the definition of the experiencethat we just talked about, in fact that new definition of marketing is thatmarking is the owner and sustainer of all experiences, not just the creatorof messages Butso once that becomes the foundation, then we start tacticallylooking at what hyghe performers are doing and it takes collaborationbecause, as we talked about experience with a calpal t, Capele is across alltouchpoints and only when you have collaboration an those things, an beconsistent and holistic and then create the experience that is required. Whenyou look at very specific usecases of saying all right Ne and I some of thesethings are baffling like it's, not a radical idea right. It's not like. Oh D,I never thought of that like right, it's one of those kind of concepts, butthen, when we look at the actual taxcal execution of how well organizationsable to execute, I mean basic concepts of collaboration. By take a simpleexample: let's not market the people who are in the support you prettysimple, but when you might be surprised, is only one. Third of all. Businessescan actually do that and it's because the way that we've currently beenstructured as marketing as a departmant that sits outside sales of done,department, Support Service, product hat, all sile departments operating fortheir own goals, and I was talking to a company the other day and thank yeah. Itried to go over and talk to support and said: Can I get a list of all thepeople entering the support Qou, so I can suppress them from this outcomingmarketing, email and the answer that the support team Dave them was? No,that's my data. You can't have it right so when we face it and that's not theonly company lot of us face these problems. So to overcome these, it's acou of things. One is your executives have to understand that the highesteconomic output that you can produce is the experience right. Eighty fourpercent of consumer Sav, the experience is just as important as the product orservice. It is a new product that we are selling in one might say it's thegreater of the procs, because it is everything and it touches all things.Whereas product usage is only a small sliver of the total time, itit SOS tosome basic concepts and ideas, but it you know just the idea of experiencehas to go through it and that's what I performers are doing: theyave theexecutive Bian and that allowd them to have that collaboration. Yeah I meanyou really get to the the one of the main reasons I started. This podcastwas out of partly out of my own interest in this. It's like we all getit. It's super important product parodis through the roof, hypercompetition. The experience is more important than ever and to yourobservation, probably the most important thing, and yet, when it comesto executing it's really difficult, because even in a healthy culture, wecan start to feel silend. I love that you go to executive by in there ill,just one more follow up on that talk about the consequences like. Let'sassume that a company's executive team is bought in on this idea that capitalt capital ev experience is the most important thing talk about the effecton like the relationship between Cmo, Co and C Xo. Chief Experience Officer.I know that you've read and spoken a bit on that, like what are you seeingaround these titles in the relationships wo Tean between thesepeople? Oh yeah, Aternym, you left one off tothat was DGO chief crowth officer. So really you know when we, when we startto talk about the tactle, the tactical execution of these ideas- and we startto say if marketing an its own tormat is no longer what we are now doing thanthe old executive. No longer is appropriate right for the CMO being theold executive, and actually you know it's interesting if you've not been inthe marketing field for a while, you might not know that Cmo was a prettynew term. An it came out as digital came out right when digital marketingcame out the truly when CMO comes out n in the fourtfront, before that it wasDPOF sales and marketing for most Peoo Dhe organizations of vpof marketing forother organizations. Now that we move...

...forward right en cmo took on the rollsof digital branding advertising all those different aspects, email directnow we start to say to the experience right so there's two ways to look atexperience. One is you can say we are going to focus on experience, and thatis just a term. The other flip side of the same Coiin is to say that we aregoing to look at growth, so it's either a chief experience officer or a chiefgrowth officer, and that we see is kind of driving a lot of these. We alsostill have the the cro cheap revenue officer, and that also could be lookingat growth and just depends on how they use the definition. But really I sa oneof those three formats, either chief experience, chief Prothrour, chiefrevenue officer really being the future leader of the marking organization,because they're focused on a holistic goal and that holistic goal is growthby a better experience, and we say growth that the exact same word isrevenue. So it doesn't matter of your Cro Cgo cxo. That really is the future,but that leader Wen es, be clear on what that leader must do, and that jobis to create a connected experience. They must be the one who says all right:We increase revenue not by just selling more products, but by creating a betterexperience across the entire lifecycle. That's just as important for us tocreate a good service and connect that to markting and messaging. I just asmuch as it is to put New People into the pipeline, then service them all theway through so yesh. I think all three of those are accurate. It doesn'tmatter which one you choose it just matters that you have the executive buyin to be inclusive and be a bridge builder between all experiences to makesure they're, consistent and wholistic, and that's the new pathway to grow love.Tit, I'm gon na I'm going to give you a couple of your own quotes and ask youone follow up before we get onto the context: Marketing Revolution, new book,Jor, Havea, business, press right, yea. I might ask about that relationship tobecause that's cool publisher but vut before you just a couple cuourts ofyears. Marketing creates experiences, not messages, your brand, isn't whatyou say it's to some of all experiences you create right. I think you'vealready touched on some of these themes already, but talk about just becauseit's been a background thing as I've been talking with a variety of peoplein a variety of seats. In a conversation like the one we're havingnow talk about your view of brand experience and customer experience, arethey synonymous or is it just semantic and you don't even care? It's notinteresting to you, I'm more on the second of its justdomantics, because what is brand well brand is the sum of all experiences. RiIs that's what we define as brand, I so I mean it and then how you tactallyexecute those could be different things right is the taxal executions, the goalof the marketing to drive he engageion and move the person forward intocustomer journey. That's much going to be much more of a customer experiencemarking initiative, whereas what if the goal is just to make sure people areaware of US know who we are that's much more of a traditional brand justbecoming aware of who we are and what Er mission and what our ideas are so tome, they're both the exact same thing, because I believe brand is the some ofall experiences that you that you create and the reason I say that isbecause you can tell the world all the message that you can say this is who weare. You can put all the pretty pictures up. You can just have the bestcopyand TAT's advertising in the world. That's branding, but as soon as theyinteract with you in any way shape perform. If that's not consistent withthe message of the projection of the expectation Thaf you've set, then youryou don't have a brand right, because the sum is they found somethingradically different and now they feel lied to. Hence, you know have a verybad brand so to me it', it's the lot oft to some of all experiences andtheyre, really the same thing to me: Yep Good, and it's not just it's not just that it can go terriblybad. I mean do that. Disconnect just playn create confusion, not even O,which of course is a negative sentiment as well. So the context marketingrevolution, how to motivate buyers in the age of infinite media, full titleof the book that is, you know this will be released. I think a little bitbefore the book more he released yeah. This episode will be a little bitbefore it before we get into some of the themes and topics. When did youknow that this was a book that you wanted to write like? Why did youbecause, you're you know you're...

...studying these things, you're talkingabout them, you're teaching them etcetera like? When? Did you say I need to round this up and put it in abook yeah? So I don't know when that was. I think itprobably came down to when I was doing the research and just so I'm alwaysconstantl researching topics and researching things, and one of thethings I was trying to research was what is the cost of marketing going tobe in the future and when it started to look at that that required me to sayall right. If what is the cost to break through the noise ANC, then that onemore step was we now need to start measuring the noise. So I startedmeasuring noise from nineteen hundred all the way through and projected totwo thousand and thirty Thas'T is. I could, and then, when I started to findout was how we started to think about these things and the environment thatmarketing is taking place and erratically different from hefundamental level, I'm from immediate theory level an so once. I started torealize that and realize that the iterations that we continue to iterateuponen were specific games that were feeded for a specific environment, andthat no longer is true. That's really when I decided that all right this isthis is big. We need to really think about this and focus on this, becausethis is not an iteration on old marketing ideas. Right iterating, onold ideas will not carryous forward into the future. Back to the the quote,you opened up with we aske how to we be better. We simply take the ideas andfoundations and iterate upon them. Well, if the foundational ideas are no longercorrect, we're iterating upon something and creating something bad. So we haveto question those foundations, and I think, when I realized Tan did theresearch on noise been found that we entered a new media environment thatthat's really when I decided that hey this is important. We should talk aboutthis cool. I think, since I have not read the book, I think one way to getot. It is through the title and we're right on the doorstep of this one talkabout what you mean by infinite media and what are its consequences, becausethat really is the crux of a lot of this yeah totally so infinite media. Soif we follow mediate theory which is really kind of peerheaded by Marchmcclewlan, harold an its neo postsman, it's essencially, a theory that sayshuman behavior is dictated by the media environment that surround them rightand when we think about media environment, it's not twitter, socialmedia. It's something much greater! You know just like the basic concepts ofhow the printing press took the world out of the Dark Ages and into the ageof enlightenment, so infinite media S in countrast, Tho, limited media andbefore two thousand and nine based on my mathematics, that was the limitedmedia environment and that nt three specific things. Media was limited interms of creation in terms of distribution in terms of tolconsumption. So when those three things are limited, that's a very specificenvironment and we play a very specific game within that environment right andif Peoue look at who had access, you know to overcome anyone of thosebarriers, theyrequired capital, so POPRI. Predominantly noise was createdby businesses. It was a monopoly and then, when, after two thousand and nine,what we find is that the individuals creating their own media right onsocial media, on email and as well as their devices. They now are the largestcreaters of noise, since noise is very different and also it follows a verydifferent pattern where they continue to create more and more and more andfor more players. So we see an infinite level of noise rising, but there's nobarriers to creation, there's no barriers to distribution and there's aninfinite amount of content available flat for access. What this really meansis that consumers now operate in a different world and they have differentdidecision, making tools and Hav different decision making processes. Sothe way that markting was rery sa crafted was to stay. We are here tomotivate individuals given a specific sen of circumstances, of how they makedecisions. What I'm arguing fo saying all right: Consumers now have a rapadically different decision making process and the role of marketing nowis rapically different, which much more must match that process based on theenvironment. So long, a short infinet media means that now consumers are incontrol and how we motivate them is not by grand copy or single advertisingcampaigns where we said something so...

...creative, we got them to take action.Rather, we must understand that these things now take plate across a longseries. Everything is a journey, and motivation is done by guidingindividuals by step by step across that journey, not by trying to get them toskip steps, SIS pretty much the basis yep. It makes perfect sense in that'sjust to tie it back for people a that haven't tied it back in their own headsalready. That is why this interative approaches: How do we make it betterdoes not apply because it we're just building on old blacks I's funny. Iremember reading a book, it's called scientific advertising is like either athin book or a really amazing pamphlet, that's decades and decades old, andit's basically so much when I think about a lot of digital advertisingright now in the interative Approachal, you know we can. We can do ab testfaster, but essentially it's the same thing. This guy was writing about indirect mail and magazine ads decades and decades and decades ago. So youknow we feel like we're so well. Equipped in the pace of things is fast,but still it's an iterative approach. Nonetheless, let's go to the front sideof the title of the book. The context marketing revolution, I thinkrevolution is already baked in. I think it Ma anyone, that's listen to whatyou're talking about and the consequences of the age of infinitemedia sees that this is revolutionary, but talk a little bit about contextmarketing. What is context in this context? Yeah, Wat yeah so so contextis once again it's in contrast, Os something it's in contrast to the wordattension. So the foundation of Marketing in the limited media era washow do we break through Gran sommone's attention and get them to do what wewant right? That was how we motivated people to Action. Now, what we see iswe motivate people by context and that really has a couple of factors. Onesaying that with infinite media, we now have an intermediary between brands andindividuals. That Intermediara is artificial, intelligent, well, ai isonly going to let through what is contextural to that individual to themoment. Itis, that's what generates the highest engagement and you can see lookat any social feed. Look at anything, that's commediated by digital litheByai, and you will see at the contextual feet your Google searchresults. The results are specific to you in the context of you and thatmoment right. You look at social media. That feed is a contextual feed out ofchronological feed by you, like a Trai mail, inbox right lest goes on in onand on so for number one for a marketing to break through it has to bein context of the moment. That's t number one for contact. K. Number twois that context also means what does it mean to the individual? So we got onthis big kick of content marking right. All we need to do is create content,but the problem is no individual ever said. Damn. I want content today rightso what they want if they want something, that's contextual, to helpthem solve a goal right. That's really. The definition of the tacticalexecution of context is how do we help the INENDOF the individual solved thegoal of the moment and by helping them accomplish that goal we build the trustwe need rig and doesn't matter where it is we break through, because we canhelp them. With that moment, we thedn build the trust we need and then we'reable to leverage that moment to guide them to the next step, and by doingthat, we then are able to engenerate the demand by guiding people by sayingwe're going to take this and keep you going down this path, but then that'skind of the basic concents. That's really the concept of contact in thecontract of attention awesome for folks fore. Listening Normally Weud wait tothe end of the episode, but I'll just go ahead and say it for you. Thecontext marketing revolution is available for preorder. You can preorder, Oun Amazon, that's! If I did you know you like these ideas and I'tphasician, there's there's a way you can get a preview of a lot of theseideas to ind a really cool format, but really quickly. Now, did you build aproposal and shop it to different publishers? How did you get connectedwith Harvard Business Yeah, so I wrote an outline, wrote adraft and then pitched it to a bunch of different publishers. So I had threepublishers willing to publish it. Then, when Harvard's, one of them Argebusiness whos who doesn't want who has bein dream of being published by Marverbusiness, so I was like sure. Let's, let's have you guys, puplish sit that S.that's how it happened. Awesome! Congratulations for people who, likethese ideas and...

...are in anticipation of the book itself.I want to offer that you can go to itunes or apple podcast herever. Youlisten to podcast, for you, listen to Tho customer experience podcast and gosearch. Electronic Propagandi Society awardwinning series incredibly wellproduced, unlike this one, and so many other podcast, is not interview base. You know it lays out all of thesetheories over and ideas and research over nine episodes, and so I guess justto open it up on on the electronic propagana society. What were you tryingto deliver in terms of experience like why the audioce e Mad, and why thisstyle of production, maybe yeah a couple reasons? One I'm a creator. JustI think most of us are- and I wanted to create something Rad right, just purepassion project, no bounds see how far I can push and see how radicallycreative I can be with something and so ive created that format right. So it'snot a traditional podcast. It's not interview based it's! I based it verymuch off cereal, so it's a nine serious episode that tells a single story andthen it's heavily research headly produced just because I wanted to do it.That way- and I thought that would make a good experience and make a reallycool make something that people would enjoy.You know it's very different than anything. That's out there. Hince iswhy I won so many creative awards for it when it came out, so I believe I'vegot five preo rewards for it currently, but yes, that was it nd and it's SuperRad and it's something like you never heard before, and that was kind of thepoint I agree completely and, and it really does tea up all the stuff we'vebeen talking about so far. I love it as a compliment to having seen you presenton some of these topics in in anticipation of the forthcoming book. Ithink they're. Probably a lot of connections with here, obviously are alot of connections between them. What were some of your inspirations? Like?Are you a podcast listener, or you know like what were some of yourinspirations is youre like trying to create something that was awesome foryou, so I don't listen to many podcast. Ithink I've listened to to. I think I made it almost all theway throughscereal, but I think just just radical formatsof content right, a great, agreat documentary, a great docky series and I just figured that it was easierto do by a podcast than any other format. So I did it by the PODCAST forinspiration. Definitely cereal. I reach got to a friend of mine WHO's, aproducer at W, whatever the public radiostation is in New York, my my brain stopped but readsome books, sound reporting that Iwas written by MPR, so kind of just you know, audio had to do those things, butreally just listened to the podcast. Just within go, listen to he top ratedpodcast and bend, listen to what I believe made them top rated and thenjust minit fat. So it wasn't like some. You know crazy thing and then reallythe thene was, you know s and s Soviet ar propaganda, and so it was kind oflike the underlying artistic same up for this hince. You know the revolutionthat kind of was you know the visual format to yeah you', really oou. You'llknow you found the right podcast when you see some of that that era artwork,it's really the whole theme is really well developed. Obviously you drew in aton of I mean one of to me. One of the most impressive things from aproduction standpoint was how much original audio you brought into itclips and quotes and speeches and the night writer theme song and HistoricalClips and like fun, edits and stuff. But you also write o several books thatI just really love and respect and I'm just going to name a handful of them.The clue train manifesto, you Wen don the experiencehe ponomy by pine andGilmore. They have a new one out recently. The medium is the messagefrom a Cluin who you're already reference permission, marketing fromSethgoten, which was very fundamental to us. At bombamas we started gettinggoing and one of my personal favorite books Af all times small is beautifulby EF shemocker one Am Min too yeah.

How are you like a prolific reader like how, in any other, if I mentione those booksand people liked a couple of them? You know what are some other favorites thatyou've got it's so first off, so I don't know if I'mconssered, myself prolific, I consider myself a follower of rabbit holes. Sowhen I start going down when there's a question in my head, I try to then goresearch and follow that rabbit hole until it's exhausted and what thatreally ens elpd with is me going down very Arca Arcane Archaic, likedifferent PATS and finding random authors, little books or big books thatnot that are on that topic. Thits is really kind of how I come across allthose and then in conversation of Hey. I read this with a friend, oh well,then, have you read this three orgain that Cam I fond him, so I wouldn'tcoider myself, thecessarily prolific. I have read a lot just based on the workI do and kind of those rabbit, hols and making shrube and really, I think it comes out of the reason I do. That is not becauseI'm a prolific reader, it's more or less because I'm insecure and I thinkthe insecurity is. I never want to be on stage and say something and havesomeone say that's wrong, because you never read this book and in this bookhe argues against that point bigh. So I wanted to make sure that I had atheoretical foundation that you know. I knew every anything talwase going tocome that me and I think that was the the reason I read. I wouldn't say him aPRORLIPIC CRE IJUS say I did for those reasons, this second on other booksthat people may enjoy such a hard question to answer and there's so manybooks that I read from so many different things and it's like do youwant a historical contact? It's likerit. We talked about see back cloups, butlike did you ever really read the original book, which is Robert, herthere's he original books by Wenwere Homeber. I can't pronounce you lastname. We talked about feeback loose back in the S, and that was really thefoundational aspect of then telling all those concepts- and you know we talkabout experience- and you know the experience economy, Josep Pine, JimGilmore, foundational to that theory, doc erls. One of the cooftors of clutrain manifesos got a bunch of other books. GOANS got a bunch of other booksand there you know it just depends on how nerdy or Wan t have tactical or howpractical you want to be with a book recommendation and there's so many goodbooks out there that just so hard. But if I could just take a second to talkabout what you said was your favorite and my favorite, which is e EF marker,smallest beautiful, so pretty much I've seen through the majority of myfavorite books. It's this constant seame of humanity, EF mocker talksabout you know, there's lots of quotes, I use, and one is that you knowindustry is you know so great, and but it's so inefficient to a degree that wedon't really realize it's an efficiency ence. We just lat to continue beinginefficient right. But if we start to look at these things and say all right,if we put humans at the center of everything right, we put humans in thesenner of our business right. If you put humans at the CINNEROL, whatmarketing should be? We put humans in the Fer of economics, we seev verydifferent approach and on that nit, if you haven't read the book all theOnefucxlay, the island, I would say, make sure you read all the fuck throughthe island. It's not a marketing book. It's totally a book obout humanity inabout you know what, if we thought about living in a different way, but Ithink that's H, my favorite thing through all those books is it's just achallenge and- and I just can't- I can't say enough about Shumicrotheoriesof you- know what, if we thought about economics, not is the highest financialreturn, but its the highest state holder, stheriy return, which isEssentialy whahe talks about way before stakeholder tery became the Saing, andthat's then Leeds you inthe purpose, Trit en business, purpase ot, themarketing I do believe purpose is a massive powerful force, and all of ourmarking in the future must have an element of purpose in it. Just becauseit focuses us on conversations past our product, and so it allows us to have amore human relationship. A more honest relationship pass just the product withUr with our audience Wen our marking place. I don't know if I hit your Qin oman that was hat. That was a great great pass. The subtitle of smallsbeautifuls economics, as if people matter mattered and- and I love the Wa,captured t and summarized it there, and I agree with you on purpose. I see itmore and more often I think it's you know one of the big you know consumerpackage, goods conglomerates was...

...talking about how they're going tostart folding some of their brands if they can't identify a anauthenticpurpose that transcends like paper, towels or tooth brushes or whateverelse, they're selling. You know they're going to start peeling off some of thegrands and you know putting them off to market because purpose matters so much.I think it does. I'm probably abusing the word context here, but I think thatpurpose gives people some context for their participation with you and yourproduct or your service, and I just advocate- and I'm sure you would to- isthat that that it is sincere, is a big deal. I think you know anything about hea a lot of the shallow surface layer.You know flimsy purpose, stuff, the people just stapl up over the front ofthe store or whatever you know, storefront or whatever, as as a conceptfalls away really quickly, so it needs to be sincere and authentic to the coreof the business. I think it's one of the things for us here at Bombam we'revery clear on what we were trying to do in the world and the way that we wantedto operate from the beginning. I don't know that it. I don't know that it came.It has bled through as much to our customers as much as maybe it couldshuld would in the future. But I think, having it early and having it be clearand shared is a really big deal purposes purposes. Af thing we couldprobably do twenty minutes on purpose, but I'm going to try to let you getback to your date or just a little bit. I got a couple other topics for you,one of them you're gind enough to review and say some Nice thingsabout a book that I coauthored with Steve Passonelli. My good friend andteam member here I's called to rehumanize your business. I think itkind it does what you were talking about, which we tried to put the humanat the center of of video in particular, and so I just love for you to shareyour thoughts, and you know I saw you put up a linked in post recently aboutincrease consumption of video projected in the future. Talk a little bit aboutone to one, video, this, this human to human video, as well as just video ingeneral. Anything you got on video, I'd love to hear it yeah, so yeah posted this morning.Actually so doing my research on my twenty future of marketing, twothousand and twenty put out a future o every year about marketing and one ofthe big things is, you know just going out about five years. What we need tobe really congisant of is fiveg and more three time. So one of the thingsis as fivg comes about and as we start to offload more things to Iot we'regoing to start to open up more free time, we vote for pretime every year.Since you know digitalis become a thing. It's going to come even greater, so Italked about you know. If we go five to ten out when we start to get into thisself driving cars well w. What do we then do with two hours of freetimeevery day right? Well, we're going to consume content and one of the mostconsumable pieces of content with Bonj will be video and its. We start.Looking at. You Know How 's thet going to break down short forn longform livevideo, and then you talk about one to one. So you know one do one tor me andI've gauten some Plat from this, but to me Onedo one was an idea of one brand,creating one message for one individual, but I think we need to really thinkabout is human to human. How do we connect one human to another human anddo soit scale and the definition of personal? For me in the future, is itpersonalized? It's not how persona? How customized can I make a mass experienceto an individual? It's how human can I deliver that? How personal can Ideliver that experience? So you know if it is one individual, creating a videoand setting in to another. That is one piece from one. Individual IAT is onehuman talking to another insantly consumable, andtally engaging e, and Ithink it's going to be a new fornit. It is a new format already, I'm an videosvery engaging me like videos, so you know AAll pro on video. I have been fora long time and I think you know, as time moves on we're going to use videomore and more just because it's easy, you know yeah. I love that you draw thedistinction between one to one and human to human, or you know this idea that yeah, becauseit speaks to I love to use the language around Perso. I the line that I drew. Ibrote a blog post, maybe two or three...

...years ago, about personal versuspersonalized in the context of video, and this idea that, to me, personalizedis deer. First name because you adda sin, wike a product name, yeah yeah,it's just you know, variable stuff versus truly personal- is hey mat. Ijust so appreciate your time. You know in our conversation today, you made methink about this thing that I had read about. I'd, read your work on it. Ih'dheard you speak about it, but I think about it completely differently. Now itjust sovalue it right this. This truly personal experience is not a variabledata slug and it's interesting because you know the other background theme onit is scalable versus on scale Bul. I think a lot of people look at it. Theysay. Oh this doesn't scale, and then it just begs this. It begs your originalquestion I like, is it better? If I we make it likslightly incrementally better by inserting better variables into thesethings versus? Can you create a truly personal experience and what is thevalue of that, especially in the face of all this noise yeah? No, I totally agree in scale. Isthe big thing and that's why so one of the foundational elements S is atechnological foundation for context marketing for all marking in the future.Without technology, there is no way to scale these concepts or ideas rightwith technology. We know exactly who to talk to what human connect with them,whether that's an employee and advocate a sales, personal marketer, wet billion.We don't dike who to connect what conversation to have and then how toguide them to the next steps and it becomes a scalbl system righ, wheremarking is no longer, we sitting in board rooms coming up with campaigns topush to the masses. Rather, we create webs of systematic ononations when wemanage these automations, which are connecting us right and that's makingthe best use of our time, and I think that's the biggest thing I and you knowwe haven't talked about this one word of agil. That's the other aspect ofscale. IGHSO is a technological aspect of what does it take techno technicallyto skit? There's the other of what changes do our processes have to takeon? Well, we have to take on new building processes. I mean- and I thinkthat you know this is one of the things I love to talk about is the concept ofwe were all trained on the assembly line right. Nineteen, W Thouan,Nineeneren E, nine egteen Henry Ford comes out with the assembly line andthat's how we think about building that's how we structur ourorganizations and silent organizations, the building, processs the waterfallprocess or extrapulate to be Sibleline, but now we have instant feedback, andso we must move to a new model which is agil, which is rapid testing right. Youknow, listen to Morgan Brown, Shanellis, you know growth acking, you know you,it's wrappid innovation, Ou know this is what we're talking about, and so Ithink that's the other aspect of scale. It's in those two combinations have tohappen together and then these things become possible by then we're notlooking more, no longer saying all right. How do we, just you know, createthe right message, the right person, the right time? If you know how do weconnect the right human to have the correct experience to produce he corectexperience in contaxt? For that moment and athing? That's where we have to go,I love it. It's just bridging it to the truly personalmoments. It's it's using technology and processes to put people to be in theirbest position to be of highest value, doing things that machines can't o doand you let the machines do all the things that machines do best salesforce you've been there for quite a while. How do you, like you, started asan evangelist your principl of marketing insights, like what is yourdaytoday week to week month, to month, relationship to you know the salesforce mothership like how do you plug in? Are you just a man about the worldwhose work is supported by sales for us like? What's the working relationshipthere, it's a cool Ju, some job by the way, yeah yeah total. I agree. Thank youyeah, so I actually started out in sales for a little startup. Colm partotand T I was the second salesperson in boy: Thirteen, how we grew that companyup. We got a choir bagnak target, then acquired by sales for side transitioninto the thougt leadership rolle during that process. Just because that'sdecide I really was passionate about so plugging in. So I really a mutilized ina couple of different ways. As a lot of us are utilized, you know it's customermeetings, it's going in and talking...

...with large brand talking about whattheir future looks like giving a presentation to them. You know doingcustomer dinners, helping with research as well as been third party speakingengagements and evangilizing the brand on stage all across the world right. Sopeople really see us as Eythey're, not just the technology provider they're.Also someone who is at the forefront of the field that they're, you know, I'mselling to so t we can produce. You know really. You know far leadingfuture leading thoughts and help guide businesses forward, not just by thetechnology that we create, but also you know the theory that they need toutilize to succeed with yeah. I I was in a session at dream for us with acouple researchers who are working on essentially future of work which may be thi about you and like howmany of you different topic areas. Are there insidead, an organization like sales force? It's hard to count. You know when youstart getting into like. I have a team I sid on the market strategy team, soI'm not tied to an actual cloud product, I'm a side, separate entity, but theneach products have their own. Evangelists have their own research.You know, so we have it very distributed to cross the organization,but Al my team, there's probably about ten of us. Each has a different role.So you know Iot Futureof, work, voice, the customer sales and marketing you'vebeen a bunch of different ones. That e rolled up into that, and I reallyfocused on the future of marketing awesome and it shows you're doing a lotof great work around. It's really fun and interesting. Last question: Anotherlinkedin post of yours. This is just interesting to me and highlyconsequential and it seems very relevant to people who maybe haven'tnoticed, but you notid, that chrome is planning to kill off third partycookies by two thousand and twenty two yeah. What what? What do you think isthe motivation and what are the implications o I mean the motivationis easy. If theydon't do it, there's going to be government regulation, that's going toregulate them to do it anyways, so I mean it's they're just trying to getahead in the boat right. So that's why they're doing it right? Privacy,individual privacy, customer privacy, third, Parto cookies, really aren'tgreat for individual privacy. Then a lot of the people who created theInternet believe that they've Gone Ron, H, they've Brun, the mock and we'veused them to really do the consumer a disservice, so t pretty much everyone'sgoing away with them. So you know five years out. We should really be thinkingabout a postthird partyf cooki world that doesn't mean post first and Secaimes post third, so we have to figure out new ways of attribution new ways ofrurporting new ways of tracking new ways and engagement. But the good newsis that, as long as you know, a lot of those things are just for. You KnowThird Party advertising, probramatic advies retargeting and in theattribution of those things, so you know 're just going to be a new world,and I think you know that's really when, if you double down on contact in thatnotion, right move past is tat, can push button and advertised to anybody.So now we need to really focus on how do we connect one human to anotherhuman and do so and first and second party ways we're really going to builda much stronger, more durable brand with better data that', you knowregulation prove, for you know, Zero Person. Second Party, DAD is regulation.Proof you know we have permission to use that which onte Gin put permissionat the forefront. You know when we do Asktoo permision. We build a differenttype of trust. We build a deeper trust for our individuals and helps us breakthrough so yeah. So you know it's a prone acon right, so we're not going tobe able to do the same things we used to do, but I think t'll be better foreverybody. Moving forward, yeah, so good an I just had a flash there of howhow long ago sethgones permission marketing was written, but how far wehave not come in some ways against it. You know just the spirit of it ingeneral, and so it's interesting is like is, I think, about good brands andgood product services and experience an really it just a lot of it comes downto being a great human being that other people want to be around I's, likethose qualities are the qualities you want to provide such that you, peopleare attracted to you and they feel good around you and they feel good aboutthemselves and yeah. It's good thanks for that passage. Ohayman. This hasbeen awesome. I really appreciate the work that you're doing a I enjoy you personally and before we go.I want to give you the chance...

...to bring to life one of our core valueshere, a bombom which is relationships and so like to give you the chance tothank or mention someone who's, had a positive impact on your life for careerand to give a nod to a brand or a company that you really appreciate forthe experience they provide for you as a customer, all right yeah. So firstI'd like to give a shout out to doc. SERLS you mentione if earlier Autho,clu Tra Manifesto Doc, is definitely been very helpful. Either reach out tois definitely help guide me help a lot with the book and Uin terms of you knowjust questions, and just someone hat's been great. I love the work that heproduces he's an awesome human and he's definitely helped me out a lot so shoutout the dock and then a company. I highly respect- and I think, create agreat customer experience for me as well as others is Wistia they're,probably one of my favorites I've known them personally for going on ten years.I'll always love the individuals if they hire the culture that they puttogether, the markhing that they put out the software that they create andthe experience just in general ofoverything that they do it's a veryunique, very specific, and it's a great example of how culture and howleadership really does create a culture, and if it's not at the executive level,it's very difficult to create such a positive and unique culture. INSIDEANorganization, if the executives don't have it so that was I'll, go with thosetwo awesome and that's a reflection of another kind of background theme on theshow, which is that a great employee experience begets or is a necessaryprecurse or to a great customer experience. And Culture is one of thewords that kind of capture some of that essence. We already talked aboutpreordering the context marketing revolution on Amazon. I mentioned you'rsomeone great to follow on linked in how else could some one follow up withyou and your work? If your? If people enjoyed this conversation, they likethe ideas they want to go deeper. Where would you send people yeah? So I mean two things: one is makesure either fall me a link in or twitter, I publish they're on a prettyweekly basis. If you have it, listen to the podcast and want to kind of get ajump on wit, the book talks about it. They make sure you listen to theelectronic propaganda society and it definitely inplease preorder the book Ithink you'll enjoy it and really the goal is to really help marketers, notnecessarily help marketers as much but help markers make the case to theirexecutives of why. We must change and go down this different past, and that'sreally. The focus of the book is to help you have the firepower to makethese changes internally in your organization really good, because it'sbig, it's scary, it's revolutionary, and so I think, being better informed,better equipped to make these arguments and to make these observationsinternally and even collaborating across teams and building consensusaround some of these ideas. So I hope the book delivers on your missionbecause I think we'll be enjoying our lives and businesses a little bit morewhen we start moving more in that direction. Thanks so much for your timetoday, Matt really really enjoyed it and hope ye have a great week, oethanks so much for the chance clear communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance,so pick up the official book, Rehumanize Your Business, how personalvideos, accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in ordertoday at Bombamcom book, that's Bo, mb, bombcom fuck, thanks for listening tothe customer experience. podcast remember the single most importantthing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for yourcustomers, continue. Learning the latest strategies and tactics bysubscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombomcompodcast.

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