The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

61. Creating Instant Connection With Anyone You Want to Know w/ James Carbary

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you want your business to grow and succeed, it needs to be built on a solid foundation of relationships. Obviously. However, creating connection with the right people can be quite difficult — even damaging — if you go about it the wrong way. What if I told you that creating connection is as simple as collaborating with anyone you want to know to create valuable content? 

This very episode of the Customer Experience Podcast is both a consequence of and a demonstration of content-based networking. About four years ago, I created some content with someone who is now my friend. It’s a relationship that grew relatively slowly. It took a couple of years of content collaboration before any deals were made. But this is what content-based networking is all about: making content with people with the aim of creating a connection that could turn into future business. You really have nothing to lose with this approach. Worst-case scenario – you end up with stellar content and new relationships. 

I’m so honored to introduce you to my friend James Carbary, Founder of Sweet Fish Media, host of B2B Growth, and author of Content-Based Networking.

What we talked about:

  • Improving CX with content-based networking 
  • Making your own luck to create valuable content and meaningful interactions 
  • Focusing on the process of building relationships instead of the outcomes 
  • Taking a journalistic approach to content creation 
  • Balancing online connection with offline connection

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

Content based networking essentially is content collaboration with the exact people that you want to know. So, in a sales context, that's potential customers. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. We knew that we needed to connect with VP's of marketing at be tob technology companies with fifty plus employees. That's a line from a new book called content based networking. It's author and our guest today, wanted to build relationships and create content with his ideal customers at swe fish media. It's a company he founded that produces podcast for B tob brands. Turns out that was me, a VP of marketing at a be Tobtech company with fifty plus employees. Nearly four years later, here we are. We're friends, we've spent time in person several times, where each each other's customers, and we've produced several pieces of content together. So what you're listening to right now is both a consequence of and a demonstration of content based networking. It's all very Meta. James car very, welcome to the customer experience podcast. In Man, I legitimately have goose chills right now and that was that was probably the best intro I've ever heard in my life. Thank you so much. That that is that's incredible. Sure, I mean, and none of it is really about what an awesome person you are. We could have gone down that road to but here we are. It's so great to have you on the show. It's a show that your team is kind enough and excellent at producing. For me in the team here at bombomb it's a pleasure to be your customer, and so we'll start with you where we always start with everyone, which is your thoughts on customer experience. Like, what is that? When I see customer experience, what does that mean to you? Yeah, so I read a book probably about a year ago called never lose a customer again by Joey Coleman. You've had them on the show. We're both big fans of Joey and when I think about customer experience, so much of my thinking really comes from what I learned in that book. You know, Joey walks through eight phases that a customer goes through and I think up until reading that book I thought that, you know, I'd been spending the bulk of my time thinking about really before people become customers, right, it's the sales and marketing. What's the experience leading up to someone being a customer? And in Reading Joey's book and seeing that that's really only that's that's stage one, but it's only one of eight stages. And after reading that book we started really thinking about what are ways that we can be intentional and thoughtful throughout the entire customer experience. And another kind of big takeaway from me from that book, and it's really shaped answering your question, what I think about customer experiences. Instead of you know, so often in companies you celebrate when you you know, close a new deal, when that new business you bring the sales gone, you do all the celebratory things there. But what Joey says in the book is you should actually be not celebrating until you get the first result for your customer, because that's that's why they signed up, was to get an actual result from your product or from your service, and so just reoriented our thinking around that. So it's a probably a much longer answer than than that I should have given. And but, but that's how I think about it. It's customer experience is getting a result for your customer and I think doing that, doing that in a way that is thoughtful and intentional, is how really I think about customer experience. It's awesome. That was a great book and I was...

...so glad to have them on the show. So actually those are great answers, as long as it was because a you've left people with something they can do. Go read, never lose a customer again or check out. I forget which episode it is, is somewhere in the teens on this show. To get into that. And you're exactly right, as so many business smiles deal, you and I both have in the businesses that were in. You founded yours, I work in mine. It's recurring revenue, right, it's you know, you need that. You want that person to stay for three years, five years, eight years and then, of course all the other good things. And so it's especially important to have that mindset of impact and new impact and repeated impact or results is is the word you use, so love it. Great reference. So talk about that practically. Maybe give one or two things, like what did you do inside sweet fish media specifically toward this effort? Yeah, so getting you figuring out in that book and never lose a customer again. They talked about this feeling of buyers remorse, and we sell into larger company. So these are companies that, you know, they're their marketing decision makers, but in a lot of ways this is you know, this is a really big risk for them. So they're you know, they're CMO is going to be looking at this initiative, you know, in six months or a year, and they're going to be held accountable to hey, did this podcast idea that you have actually work? And so when a marketer makes a decision to work with us, there are real life consequences for that and because of that, there's a common emotion that comes along with making a big purchase decision and it's buyers remorse. And so when I read that part of the book I thought, man, what can we do to help alleviate that buyers remorse that our customers are inevitably feeling whenever they sign a contract to work with us for, you know, six months or a year, and when I thought, man, we have a really we have a really fun culture, we've got a really friendly team. What if we sent these little videos shortly after someone, you know, sign sign the deal and we got them introduced to their producer and started our process. But if we just sent a little video that said, you know, hey, sally and the rest of the team at, you know, Xyz Corp, I'm going to be your producer, really looking forward to working with you on this, and then it's pans over to our CEO, who says hello, and it's a personalized greeting. And so we started doing these and honestly, you know, Ethan, it had such a bigger impact than we get more comments on that little two minute video that we send that shows the faces of six or seven people from our team then we do from so many other things that we've done. I mean we've done these elaborate, you know paintings for new customers where we put their face next to Oprah and Ellen and Jimmy Fallon and we had, you know, some people that acknowledge that they got it, but most people, you didn't really say anything about it. These videos that we send. It blows people away and you can just tell like there's so much more excited about getting started when they've seen this a little video. So that's one. That's one little kind of micro thing that we've incorporated into our customer experience in terms of delivering the result. One thing that we did was really tighten up our launch processes so that we could, we could, from our side, be able to confidently say we are doing everything we can to be able to get your show live within thirty to forty five days, because we know that if we can get your show up and going in you a very brief time window, then you're going to start seeing the results of the relationships for forming with your guests, the content that's coming out of that that you're you know, that were repurposing on Linkedin for you, those types of things. So tightening up that launch process and then those little videos that we started doing both have been game changers from a customer experience. You know it. You know it warms my heart to hear you say how effective a simple video is. I love the one that I received because it's and I we will not have a gift ology conversation. I hear that's a separate episode and you're a master of it, but it was, you know, it was about...

...me and you have a distributed team and so I got to see all these different people and if I need to reach out, like they're real people now, they're not just email signatures or titles or whatever. It's just such a nice, warm touch. Love it. Thanks for those examples. Let's switch over to content based networking, but stay in the same zone here. When I read contest content based networking, which was a great read, so fun, super practical, really good stories, tips, tactics, etc. It immediately occurred to me that it flips a couple big pieces of customer experience on its head, especially up in kind of like that prospecting area. That's kind of like the networking part of it is like let's get to know each other. But how do you think about content based networking relative to customer experienced? If I mash those two things together, is that do anything for you? Is that interested? Yeah, yeah, so I think it has a lot to do with it, just because so much of customer experience, I mean the title of Your Book, You know, rehumanize your business like it's it's humanizing a mode of communication. And when you think about when you think about like business development and sales and the stuff that happens on the on the front end, like the prospecting activity, that's typically a very unt we've made it a very inhuman thing. We send out these mass blast emails where we put a token in for their first name and maybe their company name, but you can smell those things from a mile away, as opposed to flipping it a little bit and saying, Hey, what if I actually wanted what if I actually tried collaborating with this person to create some content with them, knowing that that's ultimately going to create a relationship that could actually turn into business. And you alluded to I mean that's how I met you and we were doing a virtual summit. It wasn't even you aren't even a guest our podcast. For a while after that you were guests are a virtual summit that we were doing, and I think it was content summitt seventeen or something, so is three years ago, and through that we built a meaningful relationship. We talked about podcasting a little bit at the end of that conversation and but it was I think a year or two down the road before we ended up working together, and and that's okay because we created this genuine human connection. And I think when you think about customer Experi variance, it's so much about humanizing the experience. That's why I love so much and why we use mom bomb that sweetfish is because it humanizes the interaction in a way that very it's really hard to do, but I think content collaboration takes that to even even another level of actually like being able to work on a piece of content together with someone that makes the person you're wanting to connect with look awesome. Yeah, it's so good. I actually missed the step. I should have asked you to give a just a definition like it. You define it very nicely and concisely in the book a couple different times and even a couple different ways. But for folks that are listening right now, what is content based networking? Yeah, so content based networking essentially is content collaboration with the exact people that you want to know. So in a sales context, that's potential customers. So if you're selling to if you're se you like us, if you're selling to VP's of marketing at BB tech, companies with fifty poles and bullies. Go and create content with those people, like we do on our show, be to be growth or variety who we've done virtual summits, we've done a lot of different things where we can collaborate with them. But it also trade. Transcends that to Etan, because you if you're you know, if you're a college student that just graduated and you really want to work at a particular company in your city, that's one of words like bombomb has best. You know best place to work. You want to work there. How do you do it? Well, what if you, what have you came up with a series of videos that you did on Youtube where you interviewed a bunch of hiring managers at all the different best places to work in your city or in your region or whatever, creating content with those hiring managers. You created a for those relationships. There's a pretty good chance you're probably going to have your resume is going to go to the top of the stack whenever those company start hiring for position that you're interested in. Can also, you know, it can work...

...in politics. It can work, you know, and this is one of the stories in the book, if you're you know, an aspiring actor connecting with casting directors in your city and creating content with casting directors about what it takes to be a successful casting director. Naturally you're creating friendships with the people that are going to hire hopefully your next role, and so it applies well outside of well outside of, you know, a sales context. It's also incredible for marketers because you're getting insight into the minds and the brains of your potential and existing customers, understanding what makes them tick and there and what are their challenge what their challenges are because of the content that's coming out of it. So there's a lot of different use cases, but at the end of the day it's content collaboration with the exact people that you want to know great and one of the chapters ends with a really nice it's almost it's full page of examples like you just offered there. It's like it's so useful in a variety of ways and one of my favorite things came toward the end, which was this is a can't lose situation. The very worst case scenario is if you pursue this and pursue it for a little bit, you're going to wind up with some new relationships and you're going to wind up with some content. That's the worst case. It is so good, right good. I just wanted to lay that out for folks who are listening like I just, you know, read the book, Love The book and so I'm all steeped in it. Needed to back out there and make sure everyone knew we were talking about before you go, because what I would like to do with this conversation is there, like for are like high level themes that I loved in the book, and so I'm just going to kind of walk through each of those and maybe just get a little bit of reaction from you or, you know, elaborate or whatever. And the first one is something. The first two are what I call this theme, is what I call you make your own luck, and so here's quote from Oprah, just to illustrate. You Lean on Oprah a little bit in the book. Luck is a matter of preparation, meeting opportunity. RAYCROC from McDonald's. Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more you sweat, the luckier you get. Ralph Waldo Emerson, great thinker. Shallow people believe in luck or circumstance. Strong people believe in cause and effect, right, and so all of that stuff just really spoke to me because you really draw this line between serendipity, luck and hope versus intention, action and working backward. Talk about why that's so important for you personally and then also, of course, what that means in this in this context of content based networking. Yeah, I love, I love that you brought this up, Ethan, as is super important to me. Again, I've got got got goose hills thinking about this content. This is our third core value. In Our business we have three court values. Love people well, never stop learning, and the third one is own the result, and that's really what this is about. So in our context it has to do with owning customer results and owning the results of different, different facets with the business, but this concept is really owning the result of your life. One of our court values for our family is right your story, I think. I think we have a lot more to say about the path that we go down in life the then oftentimes a lot of people give themselves credit for and instead of letting life happen to you, I believe that you can be a more active participant in your own life and that you can make decisions and choices much more intentionally and thoughtfully about what you want to be doing. I you know, there's there's these two stats that boggle my mind that you know, we spend ninetyzero hours of our life at work, but eighty seven percent of Americans have no passion for what they do. And I think, man ninetyzero hours, that is a lot of time. And so many people just let their career happen to them. They let what this thing they do from nine to five happen to them because they happen to get this degree in accounting and then they got this internship out of college and they just stuck around at the Company for twelve years because it was easy and but they hate going to work every day, they hate doing what they do. And so in the book I really wanted to open people's minds to thinking. Everyone says that relationships are so...

...important. It's you know that your your net worth is defined by your network and all these different tropes around the you know when you know the right person, things happen. But there's I don't feel like there's anybody saying that. Well, how do you actually create those right relationships? Everybody saying that relationships are really important, and then we should all we should all know people. It's not what you know to you know. Well, how do I know who I want to know? And this strategy, this approach, methodology, whatever you want to call it, allows you to take that into your own hands, because you're not waiting on the person that you want to know to happen, to run into them and an in person event, at a conference, Chamber of Commerce, meeting, whatever, you're proactively putting the illness on you to say, man, what content can I go out and create with this person? It was everybody going to say yes to you. If you're trying to collaborate with Bill Gates on a content project, the likelihood Bill Gates says yes to you, and you know, unless you're unless you're someone as cool as Ethan, probably not going to happen. But there's so many there's so much opportunity here because and you're putting the responsibility on yourself as opposed to making excuses or giving someone else the ownership of your life and your story and what you want to accomplish. So that's what I love so much about that. I'm glad you brought that up good. Yeah, it's a really powerful theme start to finish. I mean you know, even just the way I open this podcast, the level of intention of it. First you start to reach you have to sales people and then you're like, oh wait, no, they're referring me to marketer, so let's go, you know, talk to Cmos and you're like, Oh wait, this decision isn't being made in the CMO seat, it's VP's of marketing. is where this is going to have like just like that level of intention, you make your own luck. Good one. Number two. This is what I call be a value and abundance will follow. And this is a that's a that's a mantra or a philosophy or mission statement of our marketing team here at bombomb that we generated, I don't know, maybe a year and a half ago. But I felt like in the book there's this really strong theme of focusing on the process, not on the outcome, focusing on the relationship, not on the transaction. And again that cut that worst case scenario deal where it's like, you know, you get a relationship and you get content. That's the worst thing that's going to happen to me. So this idea of you know, I feel like we spend so much time focused on and like you were talking about, even in defining customer experiences. Like you know, we were so focused on getting the sale and what that meant was we were losing sight of, you know, the rest of the relationship. Talk a little bit about focusing on the process more so than the outcome. Like I feel like if you invest in relationships, good things are going to happen, especially if you do it at this level of intention. Yeah, it's one of those thing. You know, I put my I put my phone number in the back of the book and it's been really in there twice. Yeah, it's been. It's been really fun just getting text messages from people that are reading it. And this weekend I was I got a text from a guy and never met him before we read the book and he asked me, said, James, how you know how how long should I expect it to take before I close a deal from one of these relationships? And as soon as he said it, I get I get it, I empathize with it, right like you're doing. You're doing a strategy because you want to get you want to get results from it. But as soon as he asks, I thought like I hope he doesn't Miss It. I hope he doesn't miss the macro reason why you're doing this. And he ended up circling back and he's like, I know, I know, it's all about the relationships. I just kind of want to mentally and I have an idea of, you know, what I should expect or what a benchmark was, what a benchmark would be. And but I think focusing on the process of like a systematic approach of creating relationship after relationship after relationship that if you're if you're approaching relationships with the right people, with people that can actually make a decision for your product or service, you're naturally going to either create a piece of content that attracts that person that you maybe you didn't even have them on your show, but the content you created attracted that person, which happens, or you end up talking to someone that can work with you and that sometimes that takes six days, like at a...

...story that I shared in the book. Sometimes it takes, you know, a year and a half, like you know our situation of you and I had but people. The thing I'll say about focusing on a process is people can smell in authenticity from a mile away. Again, I don't want this to be a bombomb INFO, Marshal, but but the reason that, like your videos, when you send a bombomb video to me and and anyone else that you're sending them to, your authenticity shines through in such a powerful way that it covers up. It covers up so many, so many other things that can be misunderstood when you're on a podcast interview or whether you're doing a virtual summit or a blog or an instagram, you know, series with somebody. If you're collaborating with somebody, are in content and they can sniff like, Oh, you just ask me to do this because you want to sell me your widget or you want to sell me on your coaching program or, you know whatever. They're not going to want to work with you again. They might be nice to you and like Oh, yeah, that's that's you know, will think about it, but they're going to have a bad taste in their mouth and it's ultimately going to damage your reputation long term, where if you are genuinely going into it with the intent of creating really good content, that's going to be super helpful to the persona that you're trying to serve and you're trying to make them look great in the process. When that's your focus, exactly what you said, even the the natural byproduct is that people will want to work with you. And so if you're looking at this and you're coming out of it going, okay, we can, we can test this and we've got, you know, x number of months until you know we have to produce a deal out of it, that's going to produce the wrong kind of behavior. And if you start doing this and you're saying, Hey, we're going to have our sales team the cohost of a show and and really all you're doing is is a veiled attempt at getting on a discovery call, people are going to see it and it's just it's not going to work long term. So I appreciate you you bringing that up, because that's that's honestly a fear of mine and why there's very few reasons that I don't like talking about this, because I think it can be it's transformative. Obviously I wrote a book about it. I'm super passionate about it. But the one thing that scares me is this methodology or this this approach in in the hands of someone that is not authentic or doesn't actually care about relationships with people, can go very, very wrong and it can actually be very damaging. Yeah, it's I like you offer that caution. I actually see the same thing with video. You know, I that the text you got where. I'm glad the guy came around a little bit, but this this so how long is it going to take to turn this into money? Right now, get the seat. Like when someone's follow up question for me about, you know, sending these simple, casual conversational videos through bombomb when they're like, Um, can I make it seem like it's just for that person by faking something in the beginning of the video, but it's actually for everybody, I'm like, you're doing it wrong, man, like an there's some videos that should be ever green and it's okay, but just don't act like there's something else. Yeah, really good caution. There saves number two. Number three journalism and journalistic work. You use this language a lot and I really like it. I mean a I used to work with journalists and running marketing inside local TV stations. I guess some people might roll their eyes or ask questions about how journalistic that is, but I work with some legitimate, awesome journalists in my career and so and and I really like the way that translates into content creation and distribution, you know, and all the various forms you talk about in this book. So talk a little bit about journalism and like why do you like that language? How did you adopt it? And you had a couple great examples in there too. This, this is actually this piggybacks really well of what we were just talking about. I think the more journalistic your approach is to the content collaboration that you're doing with the folks that you...

...want to connect with, think the more the more journalistic, the more it worms the other person to you when they see that you are serious, taking the content very seriously. Not, Oh, obviously you don't want to take it so serious that it makes somebody uncomfortable, but when they see that you've done your homework, like you do this masterfully well, even we talk to other customers about how well you do this. But the amount of research that you do go, you know, on the person that you're about to talk to. You're referencing things from earlier in their career or from content that they've created elsewhere. That subcommunicates something to the guest that Oh, this, this is, this is the real deal, this person really cares about the content that's being created here. One it kind of set it leveled it up levels the bar of like, Oh man, I really need to deliver here, because this is this is going to be this is really good stuff. The host is done their work. Now I need to show up and do the work for me. So it's creating trust on a different level. When you approach this from a very from a journalistic standpoint, like when you're really caring about the content. That translates to how the guests then sees you and which which you if they're, if they're trusting you during the creation of the content. Then the after effect and what happens, you know, in the Post interview conversation or the second or third time that you guys end up talking, because now your friends, because you've created this content. It's going to translate there because they see you as a journalist and not somebody just trying to sell something or somebody trying to get a job or somebody you know that the what, whatever it is that that your ultimate dream is and and the thing that you want to accomplish. You want them to not see you as somebody just trying to reach that but somebody that's truly trying to create exceptional content. And so when you look at this from a journalistic really trying to hone in on your journalistic skill, just curiosity, asking great questions, knowing how to do some research. This applies both on the front end and during the interview. So the front end work of Eve been asking them to be on the show. We found that if you can do just a little bit of personalization and say Hey, I read this chapter in your book that was fascinating to me. I'd love to bring you on the customer experience podcast to talk to you about this idea and how it relates to customer experience, that ask is so much more likely that the person is going to say yes then if you just said Hey, I want to have you on my podcast now, I want to have you on my podcast, is much as a much more likely way to engage somebody. Then Hey, I want to get you on a twenty minute demo of my software product. So you're still you're still doing it better than most by just asking them to be on your show. But Man, when you take it to that next level. You say, Hey, I saw that article you put on Linkedin three months ago and you've said something about data Du that, man. I think, I just think our listeners would get a ton of value out of that, or our audience would get a ton of value out of that. Would your mind it? Would you be up for doing a fifteen minute conversation about it? And that's that's being a journalist and that's that's being somebody of values, because, because you're the value that you bring as a journalist is that you can bring awareness to somebody's thoughts, ideas, passions, and there's very few people that don't want exposure for their ideas. Right, so good. I'm just going to read you a line from from your book just because I this is just a nice little button on it. Curiosity, passion and a focus on great content or what make a journalist to journalist, not fancy equipment. You know, I think a lot of people hang themselves up. The other thing I was thinking about in reading through that section, a couple sections that really focused on this, what you just offered is, you know, I felt like the imposter syndrome, right. I remember when we first started selling our software. I was going into communities and specific industries and and teaching video in their language. I was like, you know, I'm a little bit of an imposter here. So...

...you just interview some customers and get to know it. Like, honestly, I did not know a ton about customer experience, but I was very, very curious and I knew that it was very important, and so I felt a little bit like an imposter. I mean, when you get a guy like Joey Coleman on the show, you're like, man, this guy's been been teaching and training customer experience for years, you know. But then you realize my only job is, to use your language from the book, is to shine the spotlight on him, Yep, unlock his expertise, unlock as unique perspective and just make him the superstar, and I'm just the vehicle for that and I learn the process. It's excellent, which also reminds me of another thing that's great about the book is this idea of when you hang around experts, you come to be seen as an expert. Such a such a fun idea, and it's true. I get called into conversations on Linkedin now specifically because people know that. This is what I do all the time, is talk to talk to people about creating and delivering better experiences. So good. Okay, last one, and you're a master at this. It is how we got to meet in person the very first time. Talk about the relationship between online and offline. You do a great job in the book of I mean, first of all, the chapter on email writing was just spot on. As someone who's written a mountain of emails and taught about email that's a great chapter on sown. But you know, you talked about some online activity and some offline activity to to generate these conversations and, of course, to do the to do the content it self. Talk about the relationship between online and offline. Yeah, so I think there's there's definitely something to be sad about the intimacy that comes whenever you're meeting with somebody in person. Now I'm a I don't know if you're a five level languages guy. I'm a physical touch guy. So whenever I meet in person I'm a hugger. So I complete stranger, you know. So it's especially pertinent for me because a lot, so much of my personality it's just impossible to come through in a digital channel like this, because I can't, you know, I can't. I can't, you know, hug you and like and and be genuine to myself in that way through a digital platform. Now we've obviously done you know, it think be to be growth wro've done over three hundred interviews now, so and the lion share of those, probably ninety nine point nine percent of those have been done digitally. So I'm a fan and I love the flexibility and the ability to not make excuses so we can talk to anybody. We've had people on the show from Australia, we've had some people on the other side of the country and the only thing stopping it there is time zone stuff, and that's really easy. That's a really easy hurdle to overcome. But I think it was last it was year before last we started doing these bb growth dinners where I was popping into different cities all over the country where I knew we had guests, and I'm pretty sure that was that was the first time you and I got to meet up and man, there is just something special about it being able to be in the same room with somebody. So there's different folks in in our there there are people in different industries where I think in person content is the absolute way to go, financial advisors being one. Insurance folks in the insurance space, maybe even like local marketing agencies, folks that serve a local client base, if you serve customers locally, you know, finance, insurance, those those types of roles. Doing a show about successful people in your city, and you can name it a variety of different ways, but doing some sort of content where you're highlighting the success stories in your city and then being able to go up and to their office or meet with them in person to create content with them, I can guarantee you that the relationship is going to x, but I and its depthness so much faster than it would if you're doing these digitally. Now, because we've done them digitally so much, there are things we've learned about, like hey,...

...getting to the second collaboration or the second reason to talk to someone that's not you know, hey want to buy my product, is a really important step, because when someone has talked to you more than once that I've noticed that after that second interaction is really when someone would consider you to be a friend. Just having a oneoff interaction with them people have a lot of oneoff interactions. You have a oneoff interaction with the guy that you know that works at the car wash booth that you go to on the on but but but actually connecting with somebody a second time, whether it's a second content collaboration or's something else that you're working on, is really powerful. So so, but if you're in person you get that all in one. It's in that first that first trip, because because of the power of being in person. So that's how I think about offline online. I love doing both. Obviously the scale of offline is enormous. The opportunity of being able to con you know you're in Coloro Springs, I'm in Orlando and we can still do this content collaboration. Otherwise wouldn't, wouldn't, wouldn't happen very often if we had to wait to we were in person. So that's how I think about it. That's great. I knew you were my people, our people. When you're like hey, you know, I just committing to get on airplane and go to these cities where I know, I know people that I've collaborated with just a metim in person. It's it is great and we produce a piece of content while you're here. Yeah, I linked that up, by the way, folks who are listening, I write all of these up at bombmbcom slash podcast, and so if you want to links, obviously to the book and some of these other things, but also to probably our third or fourth content collaboration, I'll drop that on there. So you your core values are obviously very important to you. I know how thoughtful you were about them. They point to just being a really awesome human but something that I didn't know you had articulated just as clearly was your mission. So I'm just going to read it and I love you just to share some thoughts on it. Our dream at sweet fish is to educate one million leaders every single day, because when leaders learn, the world gets better. Yes, yeah, so, so this is something we're super passionate about and it's a relatively new kind of turn for us as a company. For the past several years we've been a focused on really being a service provider. So we know podcasting really well and we produce podcast for companies like bombomb and a lot of, you know, a lot of other different folks, but really being the the execution of the actual service and what we're starting to do more and more of is really we're transforming into a media company, and what that looks like, I think, is transforming into an education company. So, as we start to own more of our own shows and build audiences for these owned properties and different industries, we've got a show called the manufacturing show's got to be to be still show. Obviously our flagship show be to be growth for BB marketers. We're about to launch the CIO show. So we've got all these different shows to show for HR and CEOS, called crafting culture. It's all about company culture to show. I'm really super excited about so as we start to start our own shows, we really thinking, you know, trying to press into why are we doing this and and what? What's the end goal here and the why, you know, really coming back to what I was saying, those those two stats, those two stats that I shared earlier. You know, I want to inspire. I want to inspire people to own their career, because ninety thousand hours of your life shouldn't suck. And if I want to inspire you to own your career, then I think, I think we can educate you with a type of content we're creating on these shows. And so how do we hodify that, make that a tangible kind of how do we educate more people? Well, you want to educate a million people every single day and that's an audacious goal from where we're at right now. You know, bb growths getting just over a hundred thousand downloads a month. So it's not, you know, it's nothing to sneeze at by any means that. I'm super grateful for the audience we already have. But I think when people are actively investing...

...and personal and professional development and they're trying to learn and trying to grow and they're trying to get better, I think the natural byproduct of that is this feeling of what we talked about earlier in the interview, of like they take ownership of their life and they no longer feel captive to their situation or their circumstance, but they take control and they start making actions and decisions that point them in the direction they actually want to go, as opposed to just being dragged along and life wherever life takes them, and I think education is a big way to do that. So that's the context they're that's awesome. It's increasingly difficult to work here at bomb bomb because I'm surrounded by people who read a ton of books and listen to a ton of podcast which is what I do anyway, but now it's like, I'm no joke, I'm like six books deep, you know, in depending if it's written by an upcoming guest, after like restack it. You know, that a really good one. Sitting spot number five. That's like phase there, you know. And you know, texting each other on the weekends like Hey, you got to hear this episode of this show and you're going to love when this lady shares this thing about that other thing, and it just really good. It's yes, it makes everything so much more fun and I love that you have this this education and leadership blend. I'm really excited for you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean we could, we could go on and on. Honestly, I mean before we hit record where, you know, yeah, I could have just had that conversation over now, like instantly, but but we're going to we're going to start winding it down here, and so I'm going to wind down with your opportunity to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and to give a shout out to a company that you really appreciate a respect for the way they're delivering for you as a customer. Yeah, so I think giving giving a shout out to someone who's had an impact on me. I would have to say now this might be this might be divisive, and I know not at not everybody loves this Guy, but man, Gary Vanderchuk has added a level of value to my life around just helping me think about things in a different way than I mean to say, he's the been the largest influence of my entrepreneurial and of tendency or approach. Would be at the understatement of the century, just the idea that patience is everything, that life is really long. Why am I trying to like make these make these decisions, like I'm only going to live for, you know, two more years? It's like, man, the likelihoods I'm going to be around here for a long time, so slow down a bit, be patient and start building for the long term, as opposed to being rushed and just making decisions that are in my short term best interest but not necessarily my long term best interests. And so Gary V is probably probably who I would shout out there because man, that guy is you can see up here. I've got like all of his books right up there and and I just consume his youtube content and the stuff he's putting out on social like an animal. So that he is who I would give credit to. Their great one. How about a company that you really appreciate for the way they deliver for you when you're on the customer side of the deal? He Yeah, so there is a there's a pizza shop by my old house as Joe's pizza, lit local shop. I think they have. I think they have two shops now and they know. I was fascinated by how this worked out. But there's a girl that works there. Her name is Jasmine, and I don't know if this is necessarily trained or if they just got a gym in in jazz whenever they hired her, but I come in and I don't even have to tell her my order. She's like got it cute up and she's like all right, it's going to be unine hundred and eighty eight, and I'm like jazz, like, how do you how on ear? And I've seen her do it for other people. So it's not like you know I I do go there a lot, so that that's probably an indictment on my pizza eating habits. But the fact that she like she knows, like she's like, Oh, don't you know, don't forget your cup for your...

...die coke, and I'm like man like. Just the thoughtfulness of she knows her customers really, really well. And I know that's not profound and I know I listen to your show and I hear people talk about kind of the local you know a lot of local mom and pop shops that are delivering on this experience. But I think the simplicity of it is what makes it so powerful. We don't need to overcomplicate how to create an incredible customer experience for someone. It's be thoughtful, like, be be interested, know your customer really well and and that's something that jazz has done exceptionally well for me at at Joe's pizza. That's so good. It reminds me of the of those stats that you offered here that there's just so sad. It's like if you're disengaged in your work, then you're not going to show up in a way where you're caring and just the idea of being in this. I can't imagine living in a state where I don't care about what's going on around me and the people who are around me and the the positive consequences of the work that I do. Like I can't imagine being a place of not caring. And so, you know, when you're working at a pizza shop, you know you might have in the back of your mind you know this is just for now, until I finish my degree or until I, you know, complete the training or whatever, but just that respect for yourself and for the customer to show up and care and what it does for you. I think. I think theorizing. I think what's going on for you there is she's saying through her behavior, I see you, I recognize you, I appreciate you, I know something about you, and and so we can stick skip through all the transactional stuff and I'm just going to take you straight there. And that just again you did a great job of talking about kind of like the message under the message or the message under the behavior. It just says hey, James, welcome back. Yeah, let's do this. Yeah, I mean they're like I go through seasons where I'm like really good on my diet and then I'm not so good on my diet, and so she she knows like hey, is it Diet James today or is it non diet? Because I've got I got, I do the Greek Salad when I'm when I'm Diet James, and I do that two slices of this awesome pizza that they do whenever I'm non diadems, and so like even just her understanding the nuances of kind of the roller coaster of my discipline before my diet, that kind of thing. It's it's a level more than her just knowing my name, although I think just knowing a name would probably be a pretty pretty good step to aspire to. Yeah, but she goes, you know, much further past that and it's just I don't know it. I just want to do business with with friends. I don't think we use the term friendship enough in business and it's really my, you know, a big part of my mission as an entrepreneurs to build businesses where they're where these these collaborations are happening and friendships or forming. I would consider you, Ethan, to be a close friend of mine. I didn't it's it feels weird to even say like Oh, yeah, there are a customer of ours. It's no Ethans a friend. Yeah, and and man, I think if we as companies can aspire to build cultures where that is encouraged to me. And what what would you do with a friend like? How would you get to know a friend better? Let's apply that to how you're working with this particular customer, because the result is likely going to end up being very similar. It's so good. In reminds me of the end of your mission statement or your goal statement or dream statement, which is the world gets better. It is a better world to live and work in when we approach our work that way. This is and great. I appreciate you so much. I consider you a close friend as well. I appreciate the work that you do and, most importantly, the way you go about it. I love what you've built. I love the sense of community around what you're doing. And so if people enjoyed this conversation and there they made it to the end. It is not a short so so I assume they're pretty into it. If people want to take another step, how do they connect with you on Linkedin? How do they check out sweet fish? HOW THEY CHECK OUT B to be growth content PAS networking.

Where would you send people? Yeah, yeah, so, so you can go to sweet fish Mediacom and learn about what we do on the business side. I'm super active on Linkedin. So just finding me, finding me on Linkedin. My last name is spelled CR be aary. I think I'm the only James Carberry that pops up, but you'll see. You'll see, you know, the picture of me. And then the tagline is we produce podcast for BB brands. So if there is another James carberry out there, let's just look for the thing that says something about podcasts and the tagline. Right, you find you don't meet. Yeah, right. And then the book is the book is on audible and Amazon. So just search content based networking or again, just search my name either on Amazon or audible. If you want to listen to it, I read the book similar to what you and Steve Did for humanize your business. So so you can hear me read the book to you or you can read it yourself, but would love, love to get your feedback on it. Like I mentioned earlier, I put my phone number in the back of the book and so if you want to shoot me a text when you're done I love having conversations about what people are taken away from it and what they're you know, if they got any value out of it, which I hope they did. I would love to have a conversation with you about it. Awesome. I'd be shocked if someone picked it up, spent forty five minutes with it and did not say thousand of forty five minutes well spent. I appreciate that. Yeah, thank you so much for your time, thanks for the insights, thanks for the way you view the world and inspiring other people to few it the same way. Awesome, Eathan. Thank you so much. Man, this has been incredible. I'm honored to have been asked to be a guest. Clear Communication, Human Connection, higher conversion, these are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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