The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

61. Creating Instant Connection With Anyone You Want to Know w/ James Carbary

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you want your business to grow and succeed, it needs to be built on a solid foundation of relationships. Obviously. However, creating connection with the right people can be quite difficult — even damaging — if you go about it the wrong way. What if I told you that creating connection is as simple as collaborating with anyone you want to know to create valuable content? 

This very episode of the Customer Experience Podcast is both a consequence of and a demonstration of content-based networking. About four years ago, I created some content with someone who is now my friend. It’s a relationship that grew relatively slowly. It took a couple of years of content collaboration before any deals were made. But this is what content-based networking is all about: making content with people with the aim of creating a connection that could turn into future business. You really have nothing to lose with this approach. Worst-case scenario – you end up with stellar content and new relationships. 

I’m so honored to introduce you to my friend James Carbary, Founder of Sweet Fish Media, host of B2B Growth, and author of Content-Based Networking.

What we talked about:

  • Improving CX with content-based networking 
  • Making your own luck to create valuable content and meaningful interactions 
  • Focusing on the process of building relationships instead of the outcomes 
  • Taking a journalistic approach to content creation 
  • Balancing online connection with offline connection

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

Content based networking essentially is content collaborationwith the exact people that you want to know. So, in a salescontext, that's potential customers. The single most important thing you can do todayis to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceedcustomer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast.Here's your host, Ethan Butte. We knew that we needed to connectwith VP's of marketing at be tob technology companies with fifty plus employees. That'sa line from a new book called content based networking. It's author and ourguest today, wanted to build relationships and create content with his ideal customers atswe fish media. It's a company he founded that produces podcast for B tobbrands. Turns out that was me, a VP of marketing at a beTobtech company with fifty plus employees. Nearly four years later, here we are. We're friends, we've spent time in person several times, where each eachother's customers, and we've produced several pieces of content together. So what you'relistening to right now is both a consequence of and a demonstration of content basednetworking. It's all very Meta. James car very, welcome to the customerexperience podcast. In Man, I legitimately have goose chills right now and thatwas that was probably the best intro I've ever heard in my life. Thankyou so much. That that is that's incredible. Sure, I mean,and none of it is really about what an awesome person you are. Wecould have gone down that road to but here we are. It's so greatto have you on the show. It's a show that your team is kindenough and excellent at producing. For me in the team here at bombomb it'sa pleasure to be your customer, and so we'll start with you where wealways start with everyone, which is your thoughts on customer experience. Like,what is that? When I see customer experience, what does that mean toyou? Yeah, so I read a book probably about a year ago callednever lose a customer again by Joey Coleman. You've had them on the show.We're both big fans of Joey and when I think about customer experience,so much of my thinking really comes from what I learned in that book.You know, Joey walks through eight phases that a customer goes through and Ithink up until reading that book I thought that, you know, I'd beenspending the bulk of my time thinking about really before people become customers, right, it's the sales and marketing. What's the experience leading up to someone beinga customer? And in Reading Joey's book and seeing that that's really only that'sthat's stage one, but it's only one of eight stages. And after readingthat book we started really thinking about what are ways that we can be intentionaland thoughtful throughout the entire customer experience. And another kind of big takeaway fromme from that book, and it's really shaped answering your question, what Ithink about customer experiences. Instead of you know, so often in companies youcelebrate when you you know, close a new deal, when that new businessyou bring the sales gone, you do all the celebratory things there. Butwhat Joey says in the book is you should actually be not celebrating until youget the first result for your customer, because that's that's why they signed up, was to get an actual result from your product or from your service,and so just reoriented our thinking around that. So it's a probably a much longeranswer than than that I should have given. And but, but that'show I think about it. It's customer experience is getting a result for yourcustomer and I think doing that, doing that in a way that is thoughtfuland intentional, is how really I think about customer experience. It's awesome.That was a great book and I was...

...so glad to have them on theshow. So actually those are great answers, as long as it was because ayou've left people with something they can do. Go read, never losea customer again or check out. I forget which episode it is, issomewhere in the teens on this show. To get into that. And you'reexactly right, as so many business smiles deal, you and I both havein the businesses that were in. You founded yours, I work in mine. It's recurring revenue, right, it's you know, you need that.You want that person to stay for three years, five years, eight yearsand then, of course all the other good things. And so it's especiallyimportant to have that mindset of impact and new impact and repeated impact or resultsis is the word you use, so love it. Great reference. Sotalk about that practically. Maybe give one or two things, like what didyou do inside sweet fish media specifically toward this effort? Yeah, so gettingyou figuring out in that book and never lose a customer again. They talkedabout this feeling of buyers remorse, and we sell into larger company. Sothese are companies that, you know, they're their marketing decision makers, butin a lot of ways this is you know, this is a really bigrisk for them. So they're you know, they're CMO is going to be lookingat this initiative, you know, in six months or a year,and they're going to be held accountable to hey, did this podcast idea thatyou have actually work? And so when a marketer makes a decision to workwith us, there are real life consequences for that and because of that,there's a common emotion that comes along with making a big purchase decision and it'sbuyers remorse. And so when I read that part of the book I thought, man, what can we do to help alleviate that buyers remorse that ourcustomers are inevitably feeling whenever they sign a contract to work with us for,you know, six months or a year, and when I thought, man,we have a really we have a really fun culture, we've got areally friendly team. What if we sent these little videos shortly after someone,you know, sign sign the deal and we got them introduced to their producerand started our process. But if we just sent a little video that said, you know, hey, sally and the rest of the team at,you know, Xyz Corp, I'm going to be your producer, really lookingforward to working with you on this, and then it's pans over to ourCEO, who says hello, and it's a personalized greeting. And so westarted doing these and honestly, you know, Ethan, it had such a biggerimpact than we get more comments on that little two minute video that wesend that shows the faces of six or seven people from our team then wedo from so many other things that we've done. I mean we've done theseelaborate, you know paintings for new customers where we put their face next toOprah and Ellen and Jimmy Fallon and we had, you know, some peoplethat acknowledge that they got it, but most people, you didn't really sayanything about it. These videos that we send. It blows people away andyou can just tell like there's so much more excited about getting started when they'veseen this a little video. So that's one. That's one little kind ofmicro thing that we've incorporated into our customer experience in terms of delivering the result. One thing that we did was really tighten up our launch processes so thatwe could, we could, from our side, be able to confidently saywe are doing everything we can to be able to get your show live withinthirty to forty five days, because we know that if we can get yourshow up and going in you a very brief time window, then you're goingto start seeing the results of the relationships for forming with your guests, thecontent that's coming out of that that you're you know, that were repurposing onLinkedin for you, those types of things. So tightening up that launch process andthen those little videos that we started doing both have been game changers froma customer experience. You know it. You know it warms my heart tohear you say how effective a simple video is. I love the one thatI received because it's and I we will not have a gift ology conversation.I hear that's a separate episode and you're a master of it, but itwas, you know, it was about...

...me and you have a distributed teamand so I got to see all these different people and if I need toreach out, like they're real people now, they're not just email signatures or titlesor whatever. It's just such a nice, warm touch. Love it. Thanks for those examples. Let's switch over to content based networking, butstay in the same zone here. When I read contest content based networking,which was a great read, so fun, super practical, really good stories,tips, tactics, etc. It immediately occurred to me that it flipsa couple big pieces of customer experience on its head, especially up in kindof like that prospecting area. That's kind of like the networking part of itis like let's get to know each other. But how do you think about contentbased networking relative to customer experienced? If I mash those two things together, is that do anything for you? Is that interested? Yeah, yeah, so I think it has a lot to do with it, just becauseso much of customer experience, I mean the title of Your Book, Youknow, rehumanize your business like it's it's humanizing a mode of communication. Andwhen you think about when you think about like business development and sales and thestuff that happens on the on the front end, like the prospecting activity,that's typically a very unt we've made it a very inhuman thing. We sendout these mass blast emails where we put a token in for their first nameand maybe their company name, but you can smell those things from a mileaway, as opposed to flipping it a little bit and saying, Hey,what if I actually wanted what if I actually tried collaborating with this person tocreate some content with them, knowing that that's ultimately going to create a relationshipthat could actually turn into business. And you alluded to I mean that's howI met you and we were doing a virtual summit. It wasn't even youaren't even a guest our podcast. For a while after that you were guestsare a virtual summit that we were doing, and I think it was content summittseventeen or something, so is three years ago, and through that webuilt a meaningful relationship. We talked about podcasting a little bit at the endof that conversation and but it was I think a year or two down theroad before we ended up working together, and and that's okay because we createdthis genuine human connection. And I think when you think about customer Experi variance, it's so much about humanizing the experience. That's why I love so much andwhy we use mom bomb that sweetfish is because it humanizes the interaction ina way that very it's really hard to do, but I think content collaborationtakes that to even even another level of actually like being able to work ona piece of content together with someone that makes the person you're wanting to connectwith look awesome. Yeah, it's so good. I actually missed the step. I should have asked you to give a just a definition like it.You define it very nicely and concisely in the book a couple different times andeven a couple different ways. But for folks that are listening right now,what is content based networking? Yeah, so content based networking essentially is contentcollaboration with the exact people that you want to know. So in a salescontext, that's potential customers. So if you're selling to if you're se youlike us, if you're selling to VP's of marketing at BB tech, companieswith fifty poles and bullies. Go and create content with those people, likewe do on our show, be to be growth or variety who we've donevirtual summits, we've done a lot of different things where we can collaborate withthem. But it also trade. Transcends that to Etan, because you ifyou're you know, if you're a college student that just graduated and you reallywant to work at a particular company in your city, that's one of wordslike bombomb has best. You know best place to work. You want towork there. How do you do it? Well, what if you, whathave you came up with a series of videos that you did on Youtubewhere you interviewed a bunch of hiring managers at all the different best places towork in your city or in your region or whatever, creating content with thosehiring managers. You created a for those relationships. There's a pretty good chanceyou're probably going to have your resume is going to go to the top ofthe stack whenever those company start hiring for position that you're interested in. Canalso, you know, it can work...

...in politics. It can work,you know, and this is one of the stories in the book, ifyou're you know, an aspiring actor connecting with casting directors in your city andcreating content with casting directors about what it takes to be a successful casting director. Naturally you're creating friendships with the people that are going to hire hopefully yournext role, and so it applies well outside of well outside of, youknow, a sales context. It's also incredible for marketers because you're getting insightinto the minds and the brains of your potential and existing customers, understanding whatmakes them tick and there and what are their challenge what their challenges are becauseof the content that's coming out of it. So there's a lot of different usecases, but at the end of the day it's content collaboration with theexact people that you want to know great and one of the chapters ends witha really nice it's almost it's full page of examples like you just offered there. It's like it's so useful in a variety of ways and one of myfavorite things came toward the end, which was this is a can't lose situation. The very worst case scenario is if you pursue this and pursue it fora little bit, you're going to wind up with some new relationships and you'regoing to wind up with some content. That's the worst case. It isso good, right good. I just wanted to lay that out for folkswho are listening like I just, you know, read the book, LoveThe book and so I'm all steeped in it. Needed to back out thereand make sure everyone knew we were talking about before you go, because whatI would like to do with this conversation is there, like for are likehigh level themes that I loved in the book, and so I'm just goingto kind of walk through each of those and maybe just get a little bitof reaction from you or, you know, elaborate or whatever. And the firstone is something. The first two are what I call this theme,is what I call you make your own luck, and so here's quote fromOprah, just to illustrate. You Lean on Oprah a little bit in thebook. Luck is a matter of preparation, meeting opportunity. RAYCROC from McDonald's.Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more you sweat, the luckieryou get. Ralph Waldo Emerson, great thinker. Shallow people believe in luckor circumstance. Strong people believe in cause and effect, right, and soall of that stuff just really spoke to me because you really draw this linebetween serendipity, luck and hope versus intention, action and working backward. Talk aboutwhy that's so important for you personally and then also, of course,what that means in this in this context of content based networking. Yeah,I love, I love that you brought this up, Ethan, as issuper important to me. Again, I've got got got goose hills thinking aboutthis content. This is our third core value. In Our business we havethree court values. Love people well, never stop learning, and the thirdone is own the result, and that's really what this is about. Soin our context it has to do with owning customer results and owning the resultsof different, different facets with the business, but this concept is really owning theresult of your life. One of our court values for our family isright your story, I think. I think we have a lot more tosay about the path that we go down in life the then oftentimes a lotof people give themselves credit for and instead of letting life happen to you,I believe that you can be a more active participant in your own life andthat you can make decisions and choices much more intentionally and thoughtfully about what youwant to be doing. I you know, there's there's these two stats that bogglemy mind that you know, we spend ninetyzero hours of our life atwork, but eighty seven percent of Americans have no passion for what they do. And I think, man ninetyzero hours, that is a lot of time.And so many people just let their career happen to them. They letwhat this thing they do from nine to five happen to them because they happento get this degree in accounting and then they got this internship out of collegeand they just stuck around at the Company for twelve years because it was easyand but they hate going to work every day, they hate doing what theydo. And so in the book I really wanted to open people's minds tothinking. Everyone says that relationships are so...

...important. It's you know that youryour net worth is defined by your network and all these different tropes around theyou know when you know the right person, things happen. But there's I don'tfeel like there's anybody saying that. Well, how do you actually createthose right relationships? Everybody saying that relationships are really important, and then weshould all we should all know people. It's not what you know to youknow. Well, how do I know who I want to know? Andthis strategy, this approach, methodology, whatever you want to call it,allows you to take that into your own hands, because you're not waiting onthe person that you want to know to happen, to run into them andan in person event, at a conference, Chamber of Commerce, meeting, whatever, you're proactively putting the illness on you to say, man, whatcontent can I go out and create with this person? It was everybody goingto say yes to you. If you're trying to collaborate with Bill Gates ona content project, the likelihood Bill Gates says yes to you, and youknow, unless you're unless you're someone as cool as Ethan, probably not goingto happen. But there's so many there's so much opportunity here because and you'reputting the responsibility on yourself as opposed to making excuses or giving someone else theownership of your life and your story and what you want to accomplish. Sothat's what I love so much about that. I'm glad you brought that up good. Yeah, it's a really powerful theme start to finish. I meanyou know, even just the way I open this podcast, the level ofintention of it. First you start to reach you have to sales people andthen you're like, oh wait, no, they're referring me to marketer, solet's go, you know, talk to Cmos and you're like, Ohwait, this decision isn't being made in the CMO seat, it's VP's ofmarketing. is where this is going to have like just like that level ofintention, you make your own luck. Good one. Number two. Thisis what I call be a value and abundance will follow. And this isa that's a that's a mantra or a philosophy or mission statement of our marketingteam here at bombomb that we generated, I don't know, maybe a yearand a half ago. But I felt like in the book there's this reallystrong theme of focusing on the process, not on the outcome, focusing onthe relationship, not on the transaction. And again that cut that worst casescenario deal where it's like, you know, you get a relationship and you getcontent. That's the worst thing that's going to happen to me. Sothis idea of you know, I feel like we spend so much time focusedon and like you were talking about, even in defining customer experiences. Likeyou know, we were so focused on getting the sale and what that meantwas we were losing sight of, you know, the rest of the relationship. Talk a little bit about focusing on the process more so than the outcome. Like I feel like if you invest in relationships, good things are goingto happen, especially if you do it at this level of intention. Yeah, it's one of those thing. You know, I put my I putmy phone number in the back of the book and it's been really in theretwice. Yeah, it's been. It's been really fun just getting text messagesfrom people that are reading it. And this weekend I was I got atext from a guy and never met him before we read the book and heasked me, said, James, how you know how how long should Iexpect it to take before I close a deal from one of these relationships?And as soon as he said it, I get I get it, Iempathize with it, right like you're doing. You're doing a strategy because you wantto get you want to get results from it. But as soon ashe asks, I thought like I hope he doesn't Miss It. I hopehe doesn't miss the macro reason why you're doing this. And he ended upcircling back and he's like, I know, I know, it's all about therelationships. I just kind of want to mentally and I have an ideaof, you know, what I should expect or what a benchmark was,what a benchmark would be. And but I think focusing on the process oflike a systematic approach of creating relationship after relationship after relationship that if you're ifyou're approaching relationships with the right people, with people that can actually make adecision for your product or service, you're naturally going to either create a pieceof content that attracts that person that you maybe you didn't even have them onyour show, but the content you created attracted that person, which happens,or you end up talking to someone that can work with you and that sometimesthat takes six days, like at a...

...story that I shared in the book. Sometimes it takes, you know, a year and a half, likeyou know our situation of you and I had but people. The thing I'llsay about focusing on a process is people can smell in authenticity from a mileaway. Again, I don't want this to be a bombomb INFO, Marshal, but but the reason that, like your videos, when you send abombomb video to me and and anyone else that you're sending them to, yourauthenticity shines through in such a powerful way that it covers up. It coversup so many, so many other things that can be misunderstood when you're ona podcast interview or whether you're doing a virtual summit or a blog or aninstagram, you know, series with somebody. If you're collaborating with somebody, arein content and they can sniff like, Oh, you just ask me todo this because you want to sell me your widget or you want tosell me on your coaching program or, you know whatever. They're not goingto want to work with you again. They might be nice to you andlike Oh, yeah, that's that's you know, will think about it,but they're going to have a bad taste in their mouth and it's ultimately goingto damage your reputation long term, where if you are genuinely going into itwith the intent of creating really good content, that's going to be super helpful tothe persona that you're trying to serve and you're trying to make them lookgreat in the process. When that's your focus, exactly what you said,even the the natural byproduct is that people will want to work with you.And so if you're looking at this and you're coming out of it going,okay, we can, we can test this and we've got, you know, x number of months until you know we have to produce a deal outof it, that's going to produce the wrong kind of behavior. And ifyou start doing this and you're saying, Hey, we're going to have oursales team the cohost of a show and and really all you're doing is isa veiled attempt at getting on a discovery call, people are going to seeit and it's just it's not going to work long term. So I appreciateyou you bringing that up, because that's that's honestly a fear of mine andwhy there's very few reasons that I don't like talking about this, because Ithink it can be it's transformative. Obviously I wrote a book about it.I'm super passionate about it. But the one thing that scares me is thismethodology or this this approach in in the hands of someone that is not authenticor doesn't actually care about relationships with people, can go very, very wrong andit can actually be very damaging. Yeah, it's I like you offerthat caution. I actually see the same thing with video. You know,I that the text you got where. I'm glad the guy came around alittle bit, but this this so how long is it going to take toturn this into money? Right now, get the seat. Like when someone'sfollow up question for me about, you know, sending these simple, casualconversational videos through bombomb when they're like, Um, can I make it seemlike it's just for that person by faking something in the beginning of the video, but it's actually for everybody, I'm like, you're doing it wrong,man, like an there's some videos that should be ever green and it's okay, but just don't act like there's something else. Yeah, really good caution. There saves number two. Number three journalism and journalistic work. You usethis language a lot and I really like it. I mean a I usedto work with journalists and running marketing inside local TV stations. I guess somepeople might roll their eyes or ask questions about how journalistic that is, butI work with some legitimate, awesome journalists in my career and so and andI really like the way that translates into content creation and distribution, you know, and all the various forms you talk about in this book. So talka little bit about journalism and like why do you like that language? Howdid you adopt it? And you had a couple great examples in there too. This, this is actually this piggybacks really well of what we were justtalking about. I think the more journalistic your approach is to the content collaborationthat you're doing with the folks that you...

...want to connect with, think themore the more journalistic, the more it worms the other person to you whenthey see that you are serious, taking the content very seriously. Not,Oh, obviously you don't want to take it so serious that it makes somebodyuncomfortable, but when they see that you've done your homework, like you dothis masterfully well, even we talk to other customers about how well you dothis. But the amount of research that you do go, you know,on the person that you're about to talk to. You're referencing things from earlierin their career or from content that they've created elsewhere. That subcommunicates something tothe guest that Oh, this, this is, this is the real deal, this person really cares about the content that's being created here. One itkind of set it leveled it up levels the bar of like, Oh man, I really need to deliver here, because this is this is going tobe this is really good stuff. The host is done their work. NowI need to show up and do the work for me. So it's creatingtrust on a different level. When you approach this from a very from ajournalistic standpoint, like when you're really caring about the content. That translates tohow the guests then sees you and which which you if they're, if they'retrusting you during the creation of the content. Then the after effect and what happens, you know, in the Post interview conversation or the second or thirdtime that you guys end up talking, because now your friends, because you'vecreated this content. It's going to translate there because they see you as ajournalist and not somebody just trying to sell something or somebody trying to get ajob or somebody you know that the what, whatever it is that that your ultimatedream is and and the thing that you want to accomplish. You wantthem to not see you as somebody just trying to reach that but somebody that'struly trying to create exceptional content. And so when you look at this froma journalistic really trying to hone in on your journalistic skill, just curiosity,asking great questions, knowing how to do some research. This applies both onthe front end and during the interview. So the front end work of Evebeen asking them to be on the show. We found that if you can dojust a little bit of personalization and say Hey, I read this chapterin your book that was fascinating to me. I'd love to bring you on thecustomer experience podcast to talk to you about this idea and how it relatesto customer experience, that ask is so much more likely that the person isgoing to say yes then if you just said Hey, I want to haveyou on my podcast now, I want to have you on my podcast,is much as a much more likely way to engage somebody. Then Hey,I want to get you on a twenty minute demo of my software product.So you're still you're still doing it better than most by just asking them tobe on your show. But Man, when you take it to that nextlevel. You say, Hey, I saw that article you put on Linkedinthree months ago and you've said something about data Du that, man. Ithink, I just think our listeners would get a ton of value out ofthat, or our audience would get a ton of value out of that.Would your mind it? Would you be up for doing a fifteen minute conversationabout it? And that's that's being a journalist and that's that's being somebody ofvalues, because, because you're the value that you bring as a journalist isthat you can bring awareness to somebody's thoughts, ideas, passions, and there's veryfew people that don't want exposure for their ideas. Right, so good. I'm just going to read you a line from from your book just becauseI this is just a nice little button on it. Curiosity, passion anda focus on great content or what make a journalist to journalist, not fancyequipment. You know, I think a lot of people hang themselves up.The other thing I was thinking about in reading through that section, a couplesections that really focused on this, what you just offered is, you know, I felt like the imposter syndrome, right. I remember when we firststarted selling our software. I was going into communities and specific industries and andteaching video in their language. I was like, you know, I'm alittle bit of an imposter here. So...

...you just interview some customers and getto know it. Like, honestly, I did not know a ton aboutcustomer experience, but I was very, very curious and I knew that itwas very important, and so I felt a little bit like an imposter.I mean, when you get a guy like Joey Coleman on the show,you're like, man, this guy's been been teaching and training customer experience foryears, you know. But then you realize my only job is, touse your language from the book, is to shine the spotlight on him,Yep, unlock his expertise, unlock as unique perspective and just make him thesuperstar, and I'm just the vehicle for that and I learn the process.It's excellent, which also reminds me of another thing that's great about the bookis this idea of when you hang around experts, you come to be seenas an expert. Such a such a fun idea, and it's true.I get called into conversations on Linkedin now specifically because people know that. Thisis what I do all the time, is talk to talk to people aboutcreating and delivering better experiences. So good. Okay, last one, and you'rea master at this. It is how we got to meet in personthe very first time. Talk about the relationship between online and offline. Youdo a great job in the book of I mean, first of all,the chapter on email writing was just spot on. As someone who's written amountain of emails and taught about email that's a great chapter on sown. Butyou know, you talked about some online activity and some offline activity to togenerate these conversations and, of course, to do the to do the contentit self. Talk about the relationship between online and offline. Yeah, soI think there's there's definitely something to be sad about the intimacy that comes wheneveryou're meeting with somebody in person. Now I'm a I don't know if you'rea five level languages guy. I'm a physical touch guy. So whenever Imeet in person I'm a hugger. So I complete stranger, you know.So it's especially pertinent for me because a lot, so much of my personalityit's just impossible to come through in a digital channel like this, because Ican't, you know, I can't. I can't, you know, hugyou and like and and be genuine to myself in that way through a digitalplatform. Now we've obviously done you know, it think be to be growth wro'vedone over three hundred interviews now, so and the lion share of those, probably ninety nine point nine percent of those have been done digitally. SoI'm a fan and I love the flexibility and the ability to not make excusesso we can talk to anybody. We've had people on the show from Australia, we've had some people on the other side of the country and the onlything stopping it there is time zone stuff, and that's really easy. That's areally easy hurdle to overcome. But I think it was last it wasyear before last we started doing these bb growth dinners where I was popping intodifferent cities all over the country where I knew we had guests, and I'mpretty sure that was that was the first time you and I got to meetup and man, there is just something special about it being able to bein the same room with somebody. So there's different folks in in our therethere are people in different industries where I think in person content is the absoluteway to go, financial advisors being one. Insurance folks in the insurance space,maybe even like local marketing agencies, folks that serve a local client base, if you serve customers locally, you know, finance, insurance, thosethose types of roles. Doing a show about successful people in your city,and you can name it a variety of different ways, but doing some sortof content where you're highlighting the success stories in your city and then being ableto go up and to their office or meet with them in person to createcontent with them, I can guarantee you that the relationship is going to x, but I and its depthness so much faster than it would if you're doingthese digitally. Now, because we've done them digitally so much, there arethings we've learned about, like hey,...

...getting to the second collaboration or thesecond reason to talk to someone that's not you know, hey want to buymy product, is a really important step, because when someone has talked to youmore than once that I've noticed that after that second interaction is really whensomeone would consider you to be a friend. Just having a oneoff interaction with thempeople have a lot of oneoff interactions. You have a oneoff interaction with theguy that you know that works at the car wash booth that you goto on the on but but but actually connecting with somebody a second time,whether it's a second content collaboration or's something else that you're working on, isreally powerful. So so, but if you're in person you get that allin one. It's in that first that first trip, because because of thepower of being in person. So that's how I think about offline online.I love doing both. Obviously the scale of offline is enormous. The opportunityof being able to con you know you're in Coloro Springs, I'm in Orlandoand we can still do this content collaboration. Otherwise wouldn't, wouldn't, wouldn't happenvery often if we had to wait to we were in person. Sothat's how I think about it. That's great. I knew you were mypeople, our people. When you're like hey, you know, I justcommitting to get on airplane and go to these cities where I know, Iknow people that I've collaborated with just a metim in person. It's it isgreat and we produce a piece of content while you're here. Yeah, Ilinked that up, by the way, folks who are listening, I writeall of these up at bombmbcom slash podcast, and so if you want to links, obviously to the book and some of these other things, but alsoto probably our third or fourth content collaboration, I'll drop that on there. Soyou your core values are obviously very important to you. I know howthoughtful you were about them. They point to just being a really awesome humanbut something that I didn't know you had articulated just as clearly was your mission. So I'm just going to read it and I love you just to sharesome thoughts on it. Our dream at sweet fish is to educate one millionleaders every single day, because when leaders learn, the world gets better.Yes, yeah, so, so this is something we're super passionate about andit's a relatively new kind of turn for us as a company. For thepast several years we've been a focused on really being a service provider. Sowe know podcasting really well and we produce podcast for companies like bombomb and alot of, you know, a lot of other different folks, but reallybeing the the execution of the actual service and what we're starting to do moreand more of is really we're transforming into a media company, and what thatlooks like, I think, is transforming into an education company. So,as we start to own more of our own shows and build audiences for theseowned properties and different industries, we've got a show called the manufacturing show's gotto be to be still show. Obviously our flagship show be to be growthfor BB marketers. We're about to launch the CIO show. So we've gotall these different shows to show for HR and CEOS, called crafting culture.It's all about company culture to show. I'm really super excited about so aswe start to start our own shows, we really thinking, you know,trying to press into why are we doing this and and what? What's theend goal here and the why, you know, really coming back to whatI was saying, those those two stats, those two stats that I shared earlier. You know, I want to inspire. I want to inspire peopleto own their career, because ninety thousand hours of your life shouldn't suck.And if I want to inspire you to own your career, then I think, I think we can educate you with a type of content we're creating onthese shows. And so how do we hodify that, make that a tangiblekind of how do we educate more people? Well, you want to educate amillion people every single day and that's an audacious goal from where we're atright now. You know, bb growths getting just over a hundred thousand downloadsa month. So it's not, you know, it's nothing to sneeze atby any means that. I'm super grateful for the audience we already have.But I think when people are actively investing...

...and personal and professional development and they'retrying to learn and trying to grow and they're trying to get better, Ithink the natural byproduct of that is this feeling of what we talked about earlierin the interview, of like they take ownership of their life and they nolonger feel captive to their situation or their circumstance, but they take control andthey start making actions and decisions that point them in the direction they actually wantto go, as opposed to just being dragged along and life wherever life takesthem, and I think education is a big way to do that. Sothat's the context they're that's awesome. It's increasingly difficult to work here at bombbomb because I'm surrounded by people who read a ton of books and listen toa ton of podcast which is what I do anyway, but now it's like, I'm no joke, I'm like six books deep, you know, independing if it's written by an upcoming guest, after like restack it. You know, that a really good one. Sitting spot number five. That's likephase there, you know. And you know, texting each other on theweekends like Hey, you got to hear this episode of this show and you'regoing to love when this lady shares this thing about that other thing, andit just really good. It's yes, it makes everything so much more funand I love that you have this this education and leadership blend. I'm reallyexcited for you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean we could,we could go on and on. Honestly, I mean before we hitrecord where, you know, yeah, I could have just had that conversationover now, like instantly, but but we're going to we're going to startwinding it down here, and so I'm going to wind down with your opportunityto think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or careerand to give a shout out to a company that you really appreciate a respectfor the way they're delivering for you as a customer. Yeah, so Ithink giving giving a shout out to someone who's had an impact on me.I would have to say now this might be this might be divisive, andI know not at not everybody loves this Guy, but man, Gary Vanderchukhas added a level of value to my life around just helping me think aboutthings in a different way than I mean to say, he's the been thelargest influence of my entrepreneurial and of tendency or approach. Would be at theunderstatement of the century, just the idea that patience is everything, that lifeis really long. Why am I trying to like make these make these decisions, like I'm only going to live for, you know, two more years?It's like, man, the likelihoods I'm going to be around here fora long time, so slow down a bit, be patient and start buildingfor the long term, as opposed to being rushed and just making decisions thatare in my short term best interest but not necessarily my long term best interests. And so Gary V is probably probably who I would shout out there becauseman, that guy is you can see up here. I've got like allof his books right up there and and I just consume his youtube content andthe stuff he's putting out on social like an animal. So that he iswho I would give credit to. Their great one. How about a companythat you really appreciate for the way they deliver for you when you're on thecustomer side of the deal? He Yeah, so there is a there's a pizzashop by my old house as Joe's pizza, lit local shop. Ithink they have. I think they have two shops now and they know.I was fascinated by how this worked out. But there's a girl that works there. Her name is Jasmine, and I don't know if this is necessarilytrained or if they just got a gym in in jazz whenever they hired her, but I come in and I don't even have to tell her my order. She's like got it cute up and she's like all right, it's goingto be unine hundred and eighty eight, and I'm like jazz, like,how do you how on ear? And I've seen her do it for otherpeople. So it's not like you know I I do go there a lot, so that that's probably an indictment on my pizza eating habits. But thefact that she like she knows, like she's like, Oh, don't youknow, don't forget your cup for your...

...die coke, and I'm like manlike. Just the thoughtfulness of she knows her customers really, really well.And I know that's not profound and I know I listen to your show andI hear people talk about kind of the local you know a lot of localmom and pop shops that are delivering on this experience. But I think thesimplicity of it is what makes it so powerful. We don't need to overcomplicatehow to create an incredible customer experience for someone. It's be thoughtful, like, be be interested, know your customer really well and and that's something thatjazz has done exceptionally well for me at at Joe's pizza. That's so good. It reminds me of the of those stats that you offered here that there'sjust so sad. It's like if you're disengaged in your work, then you'renot going to show up in a way where you're caring and just the ideaof being in this. I can't imagine living in a state where I don'tcare about what's going on around me and the people who are around me andthe the positive consequences of the work that I do. Like I can't imaginebeing a place of not caring. And so, you know, when you'reworking at a pizza shop, you know you might have in the back ofyour mind you know this is just for now, until I finish my degreeor until I, you know, complete the training or whatever, but justthat respect for yourself and for the customer to show up and care and whatit does for you. I think. I think theorizing. I think what'sgoing on for you there is she's saying through her behavior, I see you, I recognize you, I appreciate you, I know something about you, andand so we can stick skip through all the transactional stuff and I'm justgoing to take you straight there. And that just again you did a greatjob of talking about kind of like the message under the message or the messageunder the behavior. It just says hey, James, welcome back. Yeah,let's do this. Yeah, I mean they're like I go through seasonswhere I'm like really good on my diet and then I'm not so good onmy diet, and so she she knows like hey, is it Diet Jamestoday or is it non diet? Because I've got I got, I dothe Greek Salad when I'm when I'm Diet James, and I do that twoslices of this awesome pizza that they do whenever I'm non diadems, and solike even just her understanding the nuances of kind of the roller coaster of mydiscipline before my diet, that kind of thing. It's it's a level morethan her just knowing my name, although I think just knowing a name wouldprobably be a pretty pretty good step to aspire to. Yeah, but shegoes, you know, much further past that and it's just I don't knowit. I just want to do business with with friends. I don't thinkwe use the term friendship enough in business and it's really my, you know, a big part of my mission as an entrepreneurs to build businesses where they'rewhere these these collaborations are happening and friendships or forming. I would consider you, Ethan, to be a close friend of mine. I didn't it's itfeels weird to even say like Oh, yeah, there are a customer ofours. It's no Ethans a friend. Yeah, and and man, Ithink if we as companies can aspire to build cultures where that is encouraged tome. And what what would you do with a friend like? How wouldyou get to know a friend better? Let's apply that to how you're workingwith this particular customer, because the result is likely going to end up beingvery similar. It's so good. In reminds me of the end of yourmission statement or your goal statement or dream statement, which is the world getsbetter. It is a better world to live and work in when we approachour work that way. This is and great. I appreciate you so much. I consider you a close friend as well. I appreciate the work thatyou do and, most importantly, the way you go about it. Ilove what you've built. I love the sense of community around what you're doing. And so if people enjoyed this conversation and there they made it to theend. It is not a short so so I assume they're pretty into it. If people want to take another step, how do they connect with you onLinkedin? How do they check out sweet fish? HOW THEY CHECK OUTB to be growth content PAS networking.

Where would you send people? Yeah, yeah, so, so you can go to sweet fish Mediacom and learnabout what we do on the business side. I'm super active on Linkedin. Sojust finding me, finding me on Linkedin. My last name is spelledCR be aary. I think I'm the only James Carberry that pops up,but you'll see. You'll see, you know, the picture of me.And then the tagline is we produce podcast for BB brands. So if thereis another James carberry out there, let's just look for the thing that sayssomething about podcasts and the tagline. Right, you find you don't meet. Yeah, right. And then the book is the book is on audible andAmazon. So just search content based networking or again, just search my nameeither on Amazon or audible. If you want to listen to it, Iread the book similar to what you and Steve Did for humanize your business.So so you can hear me read the book to you or you can readit yourself, but would love, love to get your feedback on it.Like I mentioned earlier, I put my phone number in the back of thebook and so if you want to shoot me a text when you're done Ilove having conversations about what people are taken away from it and what they're youknow, if they got any value out of it, which I hope theydid. I would love to have a conversation with you about it. Awesome. I'd be shocked if someone picked it up, spent forty five minutes withit and did not say thousand of forty five minutes well spent. I appreciatethat. Yeah, thank you so much for your time, thanks for theinsights, thanks for the way you view the world and inspiring other people tofew it the same way. Awesome, Eathan. Thank you so much.Man, this has been incredible. I'm honored to have been asked to bea guest. Clear Communication, Human Connection, higher conversion, these are just someof the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day.It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the officialbook rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience.Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks forlistening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thingyou can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favoritepodcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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