The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

64. A Circular Approach to the Customer Lifecycle w/ Wes Schaeffer


How do you envision the customer lifecycle? Is it linear or circular? The latter is your best bet if you want lifelong customers. And it’s as easy as ABC...DE, then repeat.


If you’re stumped on what this means for your sales and marketing team, this episode is for you.


Wes Schaeffer, author, speaker, and Founder at The Sales Whisperer, stopped by The Customer Experience Podcast to break down this circular approach to the customer lifecycle.


What we talked about:


- What an ideal customer lifecycle looks like – courtesy of BMW


- How the ABCDE process works


- When to use automation vs. personal touch


- Why doing things that can’t scale is important


- How to keep the personal and the human in the sales process


Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

You got to think through this andrealize everything we do impacts everybody. We meet, how we look at them, how we shake theirhands. Do we make eye contacts at all makes an impression. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast, here'syour host, eath and Baute. He welcomed back to the customer experience podcastfor today's guest. The customer journey isn't linear it's circular and it's aseasy as ABC de attract bond. Convert, deliver and deer well be getting moreinto the ABCDE sales and marketing method will also get into the twothings. Customers say: they'll pay for the limits of automation and more asthe sales whisperer he consults on crm trains on sales and marketing processand host more podcast than I do. West shafer welcome to the customerexperience podcast anmay thanks for having me, you know just really aninteresting background. You have degree in meteorology, you played football atthe Air Force Academy, you were served in the air force from the and I think you were using Tompbeoallergy degree in the air force. How do you land in sales and marketingand tech and process? I just I wantid to be paid according to my productionand yea. Once my five years were up, you know I started laying the groundwork about a year early. You know to make the transition I was married. Wehad a baby had anor one on the way. So I couldn't just you know, throw cautionto the wind so Y. I made some plans, they all changed within six months, buthey at least I had some plans, but I was always interested in sales. I wasinterested O. I was motivated to make more money and sales with the clearpath. It is a clear path. It's funny it took me. I interned at a televisionstation while I was in college and it didn't take me very long to connect whoin the building was driving the nicest cars and that occurred to meimmediately and yet I still spendt a dozen years on the creative side of thebusiness. You know, let'so, let's tell where we always start here, which isyour thoughts around customer experience. When I say customerexperience. What does that mean to you? You know I learned a fancy word in thisworld AF marketing years ago, called congruency and how it applies in marketing insales. But it applies in life. You know, if you, if you see somebody come outlike fancy cars, whatever they they're driving a nice car, but they get out inthere in I, don't know grungy clothes and they don't talk clearly orprecisely. You know: you're like something's, not Congrooit, there'ssomething doesn't Matsh. The driver doesn't match my image of the car, youknow and we make those judgments about people all the time, but in business.If you have an ad that promises, the Moon in the stores and the website load,slowly or you know it's outdated or it's you know, loading flash andplaying. You know air supply, the desibale. You know at level ten, it'sincongruent. If, if the AD looks good, the the landing page looks good, youfill out of form, you don't hear from somebody or it's a pushy sal orsomebody immediately calls starts texting and hounding you you'r like notcongruent there. It's not a sceneless transition and so a confused mind saysno all right. So if anything is not a match, then we protect ourselves. We kind ofback up and say. Let me re, I must have mised something. Let me reevaluate I'lltake a moment and t en I'll get back to... You know, like we say in sales.Time kills deals, so everything must match andnot only upto the sale right because rookies and amateurs and the money chasers theystop at the sale. But we all know people file, charge, backs Thoy, askfor refunds, you know they return the product or they keep the product andthey go on Geelop and everywhere else. Tan Give you a one star review atd,make your life miserable. So you better your just like golf right. You swingthrough the ball swing through impact, yes, Tu e Port Right, tennis, baseballanything you're striking the ball swing through impact. You know, martial arts,you know swing through the strike, so you you must continue selling through the conversion. You know the cash, ifyou're really going to make, I in the world of sales, think you're right ownthere. This is obviously where you get repeat: Purchasing spandid, purchasingpurchasing of different products and services that were available, but youdidn't take on the first go to your point: Online reviews testimonials andthe entire positive growh, lup or positive halo effect of having thatcangruency from start to finish great call there. Where do you think some?Like you know, you consult you review a lot of situations, you probably walkinto great situations and kind of maybe some crazy situations. Where do you seesome companies getting it really right or really wrong with regard tocongruency in customer experience? Oh well, man, my local guy. Here Ibought a couple of BMWS from a guy and they were outstanding still outstandingand they you know they overdelivered and Icould say I guess conversly. You know the local for dealer. This was yearsago and I had my heart set. I was getting a truck. You know, ben out ofTexas too long. It was time for a truck, I'm just saying, and I went to thelocal for dealer and I've almost never bought a new vehicle and I just toldthe Guy Straight up. What's your best deal right, I'm looking at desouls, butI can do this at an the other and they want to play games, and I literallyjust theywere going to go appraise my vehicle or sorry to look for somethingin the lot okay find when they walked e. They turned right that grand my keystill my wife still let's go and I had an appointment at the BMWDDEALERSHIPanyway. So when I pulled up the car I was looking at was backed inright in the front they had this. Remember they had this like three threeand a half foot tall plackard. It was a this plastic stand that came up andthen angle back and then had a space for a piece of paper and they justprinted up my name like reserved for Westshafer R, welcome, Westsha, orsomething like that. You know so that little stand probably cost fifty bucksand that sheet of Paypor cost. You know two two pennies and it made animpression they were not pushy, they didn't play games and I was like doneand I've referred him. More people bought ended up, buying three cars fromthem and all because they weren't pushy didn'tplay the games cut to the chase got to know me knew I wasn't playing any gamesand they made the sale love it, and here you are talking about it yearslater and I'm sure you've done it many times before it's. The first story thatcame to mind is: is such a a little bit of care and attention obviously left asignificant impact and that's what we're all trying to do. So, let's getinto your philosophy around linear versus circular and your abcde system,and I, unless anyone hit the Bounde back button, they don't remember whatthe words mean. So talk a little bit about that Lok.What was the epiphany for you or what was the? What was the? How do you startgoing down the circular road and then maybe get a little bit into the system? Yeah? Well I mean I'm always a studentright, I'm learning I'm seeing what others are doing, what they're puttingout and you see the pipelines and the...

...funnels and you need those those arevalid concepts within the framework of what I call the abcds but they're, onedirectional, okay, you nee directional, the you know the funnels you k packenough stuff in the top and something's bound to come out the bottom. You knowthe pipelines, one direction shove enough stuff. In one side, some salesshould come out the other, and so those those concepts are okay like sa withinthe framework, because it gives you stages and time frames and you canidentify bottle, necks and problems within your sale cycle, but to think ofthem as one direction is invalid, I think, or least it's incomplete they're fine to make one sale and whenyou're looking at one individual, that's who I say that you can pull thatinto the framework and it can it can impact or guide you on thatrelationship, but again that bigger frameworkyou're looking to attractpeople to your place of business, to your website to your trade, show booth,okay. So what are you doing to put yourself out there that attracts him,but we don't need window. Shoppers, Hey. The Baker, does not make any money fromyou pressing your face up on the window and drooling: Okay, you're, just slowing people downN. I g go clean his window. They need you to come inside and at a minimumdrop a business card in he bowl or do something. So they can now stay intouch and that's where the bonding comes in. Okay, you sign up, for youknow the Donut of the day text message Wen: Now you can stay in touch andpreferably that bonding is done. Multimedia multistep. You know. Onereally is the loneliest number. If you only have one way to connect with yourprospect, it's easy for them to avoid it. It's easy for them to unsubscribe,I Easyo to throw yoursteff away and just ignore your message. So multimedimultistep have a system in place. Somebody oppstin with an email. Youoffer something else. You know t get their get their address. Maybe you mailthem a book. Maybe it's a freebook. You know they pay for shipping. Well, nowyou have all of their Info phone number address credit cards on file. Okay, andnow you can really stay in touch with them. Phone calls voicemail, voice,blasts, email last text messaging. Now you could probably look them up on linkdin, other things, dadn engage social media, okay and all that leads to thesea. So that's the cash, the close, the client, the customer, whatever whateverseword you want to use. Okay and that's what I consider the conversion and angranted each step is a conversion you're converting them to the next TEP.But now you know you get five steps in the sea is only the midway point: we'reonly halfway there. You know great salespeople, look at what can they do to get the second orthird or fifth sale from this person and they see it from early on right Imean that's. Truly the should be the goal you know putting ina dating aalis. You know comparison. It's like don't go on any day with somebody that,ideally you couldn't marry right, so noit's notn just a day justto have a date to take. You know the goals to get Mak. Now, maybe you don't,but you know, because then you that long term relationship is where thereal profitability comes in, and I mean just like marriage right,the relationship gets deeper, you don't just get engaged, you can throw a bigwedding and then okay, it's over. It's like no that's when the work reallybegins. Aright and that's where the D comes in, you knowdelight, deliver awow experience, it's the begars does and right put in thatThirteenh. I worked with a company and in a subsidiary, the company madetelephone, headsets G and Netcom, and they include a totzy roll in everyorder. Right of a headset end up buying...

...job Bro e's a big company, and they didthat because they learned that chocolate melted. You know, tootchrolls didn't and they just wantid to just a little thing right and that'sthe the cool thing with all this. Like you know, BMW it. You know one time,investrent of fiftyors for a plastic stand, and you know a minute of work ontyping, my name, printing it walking outside and stuffing it in there. It made an impression, okay, taking the time to go, grab thecar and Backin. How many times you show up ago, Oh yeah, Oh hold on one secondand they're gone for twenty minutes, so I couldn't find the car it's out for atest drive. It was in the back Lod. I was getting Washe. Whatever N, likedude, I got places to be, and your lobby ain't one of them and you knew Iwas coming at this time right right. So nobody and you know I've been married.Twenty four years we've bought a lot of cars. That's the only time ever then emust pull ha car around up front, had or ready for us. You know so thisdelighting to the upside. You know, thatsn't have to be crazy. Okay, including a touchy roll in theorder, makes an impression you know, and now from there, you endar yourselfto them. Okay and again, instead of thinking linearly Orit's not top down,it's not left right. It's a circle so connect all these with an Arrow,because when you ender yourself to them, like David, did to me at at BMW, nowwe're back to the attract phace. Okay, I partially went back and bought twomore cars from him and I've sent multiple people and even to this dayyou know if I'm on facebook and Someoi'm thinking to get in the car,you know if they are in southern California. Right, I mean not even mytown like it's worth the drive David will treat you right, you know and I'llgive them a shout out. So I'vl probably helped him sell H, m a few more, butI'll always tag him, and so that's the attracts faith. Now it gets faster andfaster and faster, because now these people they're showing up on myrecommendation, so the trust factor goes way up. It's one hundred percentfree right, David and Bor, said BMW. They don't pay n anymore to get. Thoseleads Frighimean that that warm referral takes care of the attract andpart of the bond. If someone drikes you and trust you and you say you're goingto like and trust this guy, I'm partly bonded already. I just need to makesure that it's as described no, you bet, is there any other nuance to thiscircle, or is it really as easy as Abcde, obviously executions hard? Butare there any nuances to it? No, it's said attention to detail, and noneof this is hard, but it's being aware right and thinking through each stepbeing observant, focusing on the customer right, Wereis exiclyalways said you can get whatever you want. I you help enough people get whatthey want. So take the focus off of you. Stop worrying about yourself figure out.You always tell sose people. Your number one job is not to sell your number. One job is toprospect and the number one focus of prospecting it's just to get to thetruth. Okay, yes, I'd love to make a sale, but you know today's Day and ageman. If I, if I force something on you, if I trick you high pressure tactics,you may keep it. You know you may keep your mouth shut, but you're not comingback and buying more right. But chances are your ance. The dust settles. Yourealize the game. The tricks, you'll O, get mad. You'll ask for a refund andyou'll, explain your story on multiple places online and that lives forever.You know you go google, that guy and it's what a rip of and high pressureavoid dem or you know you can, if you... can buy from them, but don't go'buy from David he's a jerk. You know so so, just you know di jisu would sayslow your role right chill out little bit seek to serve find out what thetruth is. Do they really need you and then help them get it? I love it. Ithink kind of in what I took in part from what you just shared Thereis,something that I've been thinking about a lot and it's it's an emerging themefor me, even though it's not genius in any way. But it's this idea of you knowif you're, if you focus on the things upstream of the closhes, the closhe isjust going to happen. The conversionis going to happen and you're actuallysetting yourself up for a better D ane when you're not focused on theconversion itself, and you know it's. I think Bill Wallswhrote a book headcoach to the forty niners around is something around. Youknow the score takes care of itself. Yea, you know you do the preparation.You show up the right way, you do the right work, you don't worry about. Arewe going to put twenty eight up on the board or thirty one or whatever? Youknow the score takes care of itself. If you do all all the right work, theright way. That's great! U, and there are two things that you say that peoplewill pay for, and I really like both of them. I think they're both veryinteresting I'd love for you to share that with me and the folks re listening yeah, I mean they'll pay forexclusivity and they'll pay for experience and the two go hand in hand, and youknow the the cool thing from a business standpoint is the more you charge the more money you have to create,exclusivity and experience. So, just like, like David at BMW, He created anexperience right and it was exclusive. You know I was the only one with ha carparked up there and it was parked kind of kind of at an angle, so it wasdouble parked. You know like this was my spot. This was my moment: Okay andthey charge more than for does okay. So what can you do to make your prospectsand your customers feel like they're special? You know if you're just youknow, wrapping up the deal looking over their shoulder like for the next one.You see this at at networking events all t time. Trade shows, you know O up.You know you see me right well, say good to see. You find put a face: YorName: Oh, Hey, Ethan, yeah yeah, how you doing yeah just looking Aloulooking over this show. Is there someone more important? I should betalking exact, oh yeah, great, to see you. Oh Yeah, yeah love yourself wereyeah. Oh okay, likei'll be right back, you know, you're, like whone am I youknow nobody right, and so I and again it doesn't, doesn't cost me anything topay attention to you ad yeah, so we're at a trade show the TNATWORKING event.You don't want to get bogged down for thirty minutes talking to somebody sopractice right, like bi wash. You know if you're prepared, if I know how tohandle that, if and literally, if 've, if I've scripted this, if ive roleplayed it, you know athing great to see you man, I love Yoursolfware, you knowtalk for a little bit. How are you joing? The show you know say: Hey, youknow what ive scheduled a quick meting with somebody see H, Hem Walkin Kow.That would be okay, you know, can we catch up later tonight or you'r goingto be at the happy hour? Maybe coffee tomorrow, whatever hey you really goodto you, thanks for finding me man, you know good to finally meet you face toface. I can still do all that in one minute, two minutes you know and andget to the person I'm trying to meet but still make you feel appreciatedright, and so you got to think through this and realize everything we do impacts everybody. We meet, how we lookat them, how we shake their hands. Do we make eye contacts? It all makes animpression- and that's you know the ABCD right at all. It all snowballs. Itall compounds- and it's not it's not like simple n addition and subtraction-it's just multiplication and division. You know if, if I make you feel better,it's like it's a two x t, xtx, whatever you feelthat much better or worse, right, based...

...on how I make you feel and so exclusivity and experiences, do whatyou can to differentiate yourself. Peoplealways sell. Well hats we're different if they wule just giveim us a chance.They'd see that we're different andlike prove you're different by beingdifferent, prove your different with every single step. Every interactionright send a video email instead of a templated mass email, you know, usetheir name, send a handwritten card, throw it to trole in the order. Youknow, you'll prove you're different, but people are always looking for theeasy button. There's no easy button. Yeah, I love it. Those are your twoease there. The things people pay for they do go hand in hand, and I thinkyou probably have a really good pass that you could put together on the twoas which are attention and appreciation. I mean, I think you know when you talko video email or you talk handwritten note it's this. It's this attention tothe person. There's no faking the time and attention it takes to write you ahandwritten note or send yo a truly personal video and the appreciationthat you can express in the appreciation people are going to feelthose are. The deepest human needs is to be seen and appreciated, and so Ilove where you are right there and I think you have something to do therewith with attention and appreciation, it's kind of a hand in hand, let's goto another, a that is actually in some ways, depending on how well or howpoorly it's executed could be the opposite of that. Let's go toautomation, you know you do a ton of work in in CRM and sales and marketingprocesses, marketing, automation, just you know, as we approach my favoritequestions of the day, which are the closing ones share with folks talkabout he, the balance between tech touch human touch, the careful balancewhere you maybe see it go over the line. That kind of thing, like you know inall of your time and experience helping sales and marketing people implementautomation as part of their process. You know: Where does it go well, wheredoes it go poorly? What are some cautions and some advice, yeah kind of my my motto the last year,at least and Ryan IC spot brought this up when we were in an event last Marchtalked about I doing what doesn't scale and that's kind of the name of the game.I think because everybody now has a funnel and a pipeline and some type ofautomation broadcast tool, and so you still need those, maybe at the topof the funnel right, maybe early in the relationship early in the attract phase.But what can you do to make them create that exclusivety?That experience? So you know a personal email with saying their name, or youknow a video email right and theyre like who OA? That was not automated. That's somebody taking the time to makeme feel exclusive to give me that experience. So my own means use thesetools used automation but again realize there's no silver boat. There's no easybutton: Yeah, there's still a few people out there that think you sentthe personal email, but most people know they see the unsubscribed button,the bottom. They know it's a mass email. I see you know on link Dan. I kind of found us out my accident, but I put alittle red telephone icon in my first name and I did it just to stand out asyou're scrolling band that did hell. I actually got a saile two weeks agobecause of it specifically because of that the guy found me, but what Idiscovered all these people are using screen scrapers to bulk harvest namesoff of linked in you know not supposed to do it, but they do it and then theysend bulk messages through linked in and they the software isn't smartenough to pull icons out of a name so than you know. It's always west,redphone, Comma. You know your profile.

Its very interesting well knowimmediately. They harvestid that name and I just skip right over hem. Youknow so maybe the other people they reach,makes it worthawhile, but because they're doing too much automation orjust haven't recognized that little glitch they're losing some people andmore and more people have icons in their name, but I think maybe everybodyhadn't figured that out yet so exclusivy experiences keep focusing onthat yeah. I think the auto slugs there and the easy giveaway it makes you feellike a number, because you are actually being treated like a number. They don'tex. They know that some share if people are going to get like the just theblank first name slug, because it didn't come through, I just got youknow I get. I got a piece that flipped my first name in my last name, and sowhen it you know so when they tried to get personal, it was you know, hello,bute, right like that, you did it wrong right form, your heart, doesn't it yeahit's it, especially with large large volumes? It's so interesting. I thinkyou know everything you've been talking about is how do we keep the personal inthe human in the sales process? How do we let the other person be seen there?It is appropriate at some level to automate stuff, but at a certain point,if the human, if you as the salesperson or the marketing person or the customerservice customer success, person, is not adding value in that process. Youare going to be automated and it's just going to be a highly transactionalthing, and you know when you ere talking about the ABCDE and how it getseasier and easier the more cycles you do. I started seeing it as this. Youknow kind of positive upward thing. That's shaped, like a you know, a coneessentially and the alternative is this. You know the conical race to the bottom,that you know the price goes to the bottom. Everything goes out the window,it's strictly a volume play Etcet, and so we're at this point here with ourtechnology with our processes to make this decision. What are wegoing to raise up and say is important, and what are we just going to? Let be arace to the bottom, because you know the tools in tech and the marketplacewill let us do either one. We just have to be intentional and TNOT kind of likewaffle out this situation. Yeah you hat to figure out. Are you going to beWalmart or Nord Trams? You know, and both of them make a lot of money rightme Walmart's. Clearly, a lot bigger, but always tell people if you, if youdoubled your prices and lost half your customers, did you really lose right, you're, making the exact sameamount of money, working half as hard D, but the reality is you know mostpeople in business are not going to just go, spend that extra time. Youknow sunpanning they're, going to focus on their business, so you're going to maybe, instead of a fifty minute callwith your clients. Now you can give them a seventy minute call now theyexclusivity and experience now they feel better. Now, maybe they renew moreoften, maybe now they give more referrals. Maybe you help them just getbetter results and they explode and they come and buy your next thing. Youknow so, and maybe it's a radical concept, so maybeyou don't double your prices, but what, if you had it ten or twenty o thirtypercent things are going to get better, so don't be afraid to raise your pricesbut make sure you give service right it Commantorit, with theprice increase. You just raise your prices just to rate your prices. Youcan probably lose people and they're not going to be happy about it. Youraise prices and make them feel better. People never forget how you make themfeel right, love it an in this idea. You know, let's see, do bump up prices,twenty percent, don't just pocket that margin. You know, put half of it intothe experience and it will beget more sales and you still have ten points onthem on the markup West. This has been great, I think, from top to bottom. Thethemes have been very, very clear. I love your perspective. I appreciate youSpendin time with all of us before you go, though I would love for you tothink or mention someone. Who's had a positive impact on your life or careerand maybe give a shout out to a company...

...besides David at the BMW dealership insouthern California, that's really delivering a great experience for you.As a customer. You know I'Sa Guy in Austin, I'm going out there N in mainRoy Williams, wizard of ads supersmart Guy, multiple New York Times bestseller, but onl the smartest people out there and literally, if he, if hedidn't, have his business. You and I wouldn't be talking because I found my salesman tor through him andthat's what led to me creating the sales whisper. So you check out hiswork, ewisad of ads and little old, Deon Moser right here in Muriettaimpact marketing. She's made all my shirts on my hats. Oh my swag, my brasscoins that I give away the clients, so she's been helping me for Kinole atleast twelve years, probably probably a little bit more than that. So am impact bout. Ms Awesome, so Iknow you're the guy with the red phone on Linkon we're already connected, butyou know folks want to connect with you on link Dan or learn more about thesales whisper or any of the other work that you're doing. Where would you sendfolks they want to follow up on this conversation? Yeah just go to the saleswhispercom long time ago I moved my social icons out of the header and putthem into the footer, and I teach my clients to the same thing. I don't wantpeople clicking away right away and going down a rabbit whole. You know andsocial media. So but all my infoes theare, my phone number, you knowcontact us, it's all there, so you can opt din. I you, if you see a report orsomething that you like, but I don't use any fancy tools to automate thesocial media stuff. So if you, if you get a tweet or facebook or linked in message back fromme, instagram, it's literally coming from me, so o reach oup and say hello,awesome, West Shafer! Thank you so much for your time today. We're recordingthis on a Friday morning. I wish you an awesome rest, O your Friday and awonderful weekend ahead. Man You to tanks for having me. Thank you clear, communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidanceto pick up the official book. Rehumonize your business, how personalvideos, accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in ordertoday at Bombamcom Book. That's Bo, MB, tombcom foock, thanks for listening tothe customer experience. PODCAST remember. The single most importantthing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for yourcustomers, continue. Learning the latest strategies and tactics bysubscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombomcompodcast.

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