The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

64. A Circular Approach to the Customer Lifecycle w/ Wes Schaeffer


How do you envision the customer lifecycle? Is it linear or circular? The latter is your best bet if you want lifelong customers. And it’s as easy as ABC...DE, then repeat.


If you’re stumped on what this means for your sales and marketing team, this episode is for you.


Wes Schaeffer, author, speaker, and Founder at The Sales Whisperer, stopped by The Customer Experience Podcast to break down this circular approach to the customer lifecycle.


What we talked about:


- What an ideal customer lifecycle looks like – courtesy of BMW


- How the ABCDE process works


- When to use automation vs. personal touch


- Why doing things that can’t scale is important


- How to keep the personal and the human in the sales process


Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

You got to think through this andrealize everything we do impacts everybody we meet. How we look at them, howwe shake their hand, do we make eye contacts at all? Makesan impression. The single most important thing you can do today is to createand deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customersuccess experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations ina personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's yourhost, Ethan Butte. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast.For today's guest, the customer journey isn't linear, it's circular and it's aseasy as ABC d attract, bond, convert, deliver and deer. Willbe getting more into the ABCDE sales and marketing method. Will also get intothe two things customers say they'll pay for, the limits of automation and more.As the sales whisper, he consults on Crm, trains on sales andmarketing process and host more podcasts than I do. West Shaffer, welcome tothe customer experience podcast. Hey, may, thanks for having me. You know, you just really an interesting background. You have a degree in meteorology,you played football at the Air Force Academy, you were served in theAir Force From and I think you were using your medir allergy degree in theAir Force. How do you land in sales and marketing and tech and process? I just I want it to be paid according to my production. AndYeah, once my five years were up. You know, I started laying theground work about a year early, you know, to make the transition. I was married, we had a babe, you had another one onthe way, so I couldn't just, you know, throw caution into thewind. So I made some plans that they all change within six months,but he at least I had some plans. But I was always interested in sales. I was interested, so I was motivated to make more money andsales was the clear path. It is a clear path. It's funny ittook me. I interned at a television station while I was in college andit didn't take me very long to connect who in the building was driving thenicest cars and said occurred to me immediately. And yet I still spend a dozenyears on the creative side of the business. You know, let's let'sstart where we always start here, which is your thoughts around customer experience.When I say customer experience, what does that mean to you? You know, I learned a fancy word in this world of marketing years ago called congruencyand how it applies in marketing, in sales, but it applies in life, you know. If you if you see some by time, I likefancy cars, whatever. They are driving a nice car, but they getout in there in I don't know, grungy clothes and they don't talk clearlyor precise Lee. You know, you're like, something's not congruent, there'ssomething doesn't match the driver, doesn't match my image of the car. Youknow, and we make those judgment about people all the time. But inbusiness, if you have an ad that promises the moon and the stars andthe website loads slowly or you know it's outdated or it's, you know,loading flash and playing, you know, air supply at the desk, willyou know a level ten it's incongruent. If if the ad looks good,the the landing page looks good, you fill out of form, you don'thear from somebody or it's a pushy sale or somebody immediately calls and starts textingand hounding you. You're like, not congruent there. It's not a seamlesstransition, and so a confused mind says no, all right. So ifanything is not a match, then we protect ourselves. We kind of backup and say, let me read, I must have missed something. Letme reevaluate it. I'll take a moment and I'll get back to you.You know, like we say in sales,...

...time kills deals. So everything mustmatch, and not only up to the sale right, because rookies andamateurs and the money chasers they stop at the sale. But we all knowpeople file charge backstass for refunds. You know, they return the product orthey keep the product and they go on Yelp and everywhere else to give youa onestar review and make your life miserable. So you better. You're just likegolf right, swing through the ball, swing through impacts. True esport.Right, tennis, baseball, anything you're striking the ball, swing throughimpact. You know martial arts. You know swing through the strike. Soyou you must continue selling through the conversion, you know, the cash if you'rereally going to make it in the world of sales. I think you'reright down there. This is obviously where you get repeat purchasing, expanded purchasing, purchasing a different products and services that were available but you didn't take onthe first go to your point. Online reviews, testimonials and the entire positivegrowth loop or positive halo effect of having that congruency from start to finish.Great call there. Where do you think some like you know, you consult, you review a lot of situations. You probably walk into great situations andkind of maybe some crazy situations. Where do you see some companies getting itreally right or really wrong with regard to concruency in customer experience? Oh well, man, my local guy here, I bought a couple of BMW's froma guy and they were outstanding, still outstanding, and they know they overdelivered and I could say I guess convertly. You know, the local forward dealer. This was years ago and I had my heart said I was gettinga truck, you know, but now Texas too long. It was timefor a truck. I'm just staying and I went to the local Ford dealerand I've almost never bought a new vehicle and I just told the Guy Straightup what's your best deal? Right, I'm looking at the souls, butI could do this, that and the other. And they want to playgames. And I literally just say they were going to go a praise myvehicle or sorry, to look for something on the lot. So, okay, fine, when they walked they turned right, I grabbed my keys.Tom I've still let's go and I had an appointment at the BMW dealership anyway. So when I pulled up, the car I was looking at was backedin right in the front. They had this, remember, they had thislike three, three and a half foot tall placard. It was a plasticstand that came up and then angled back and then had a space for apiece of paper and they had just printed up my name, like reserve forWest Shafer, welcome West Shay or something like that, you know. Sothat little stand probably cost fifty bucks and that sheet of paper cost, youknow, to two pennies, and it made an impression. They were notpushy, they didn't play games and I was like done, and I've referredhim. More people bought. ended up buying three cars from them, andall because they weren't pushy, didn't play the Games. Cut to the chase, got to know me, knew I wasn't playing any games and they madethe sale. Love it, and here you are talking about it years later, and I'm sure you've done it many times before. It's the first storythat came to mind. It says such a little bit of care and attentionobviously left a significant impact, and that's what we're all trying to do.So let's get into your philosophy around linear versus circular and your ABCD system,and I unless anyone hit the bounce back button, they don't remember what thewords mean. So I talk a little bit about that. Look, whatwas the epiphany for you, or what was the what was the how doyou start going down the circular road and then maybe get a little bit intothe system? Yeah, well, I mean I'm always a student, right. I'm learning. I'm seeing what others are doing with they're putting out,and you see the pipelines and the funnels...

...and you need those. Those arevalid concepts within the framework of what I call the abcds. But their onedirectional. Okay, you need directional. The you know the funnels, youknow back. Enough stuff in the top and something's bound to come out.The bottom. You know, the pipelines, one direction, shoving of stuff inone side, some sales should come out the other, and so those, those concepts are okay, like so within the framework, because it givesyou stages and time frames and you can identify bottlenecks and problems within your salescycle. But to think of them as one direction is invalid, I think, or least it's incomplete. They're fine to make one sale and when you'relooking at one individual. That's why I say that you can pull that intothe framework working it can it can impact or guide you on that relationship.But again that bigger framework. You're looking to attract people to your place ofbusiness, to your website, to your trade show booth. Okay, sowhat are you doing to put yourself out there that attracts them? But wedon't need window shoppers. Okay, the baker does not make any money fromyou pressing your face up on the window and drooling. Okay, you're justslowing people down, and I go clean his window and need you to comeinside and, at a minimum, drop a business card in the bowl ordo something so they can now stay in touch and that's where the bonding comesin. Okay, you sign up for, you know, the Donut of theday text message. So now he can stay in touch, and preferablythat bonding is done multimedia and multi step. You know, one really is theloneliest number. If you only have one way to connect with your prospect, it's easy for them to avoid it. It's easy for them to UNSUBSCRIBE,it's easy to do throw your stuff away and just ignore your message.So multi media and multi step have a system in place. Somebody oppos inwith an email. You offer something else, you know, to get their gettheir address. Maybe you mail them a book. Maybe it's a freebook. You know they pay for shipping. Well, now you have all oftheir Info, phone number, address, credit cards on file. Okay,and now you can really stay in touch with them. Phone calls,voicemail, voice blasts, email, last text messaging. Now you could probablylook them up on Linkedin, other things. Didn't engage social media. Okay,and all that leads to the sea. So that's the cash to close.The client, the customer, or whatever whatever C word you want touse. Okay, and that's what I consider the conversion. And granted,each step is a conversion. You're converting them to the next step. Butnow you know you got five steps in the sea. Is Only the midwaypoint. Where only halfway there. You great sales people look at what canthey do to get the second or third or fifth sale from this person andthey see it from early on, right. I mean that's truly the should bethe goal. You know, put it in a dating analyze. Youknow, comparison. It's like, don't go on any day with somebody thatideally you couldn't marry, right. So you know it's not just a datejust to have a date. To date. You know the goals to get make. Maybe you don't, but you know, because then you that longterm relationship is where the real profitability comes in, and I mean just likemarriage, right, the relationship gets deeper. You don't just get engaged. Youcan throw a big wedding and then okay, it's over. It's likeno, that's when the work really begins, right, and that's where the dcomes in, you know, delight, deliver a while ex variance. It'sthe baker's doesn't right? Put in that. Thirteen I worked with acompany and a subsidiary of the company made telephone and headsets G and Netcom andthey include a Tutsie roll in every order...

...right of a headset, and itthey end up buying job bro mean it's a big company, and they didthat because they learned that chocolate melted. You know, Tutsi rolls didn't,and they just wanted to just a little thing right, and that's the coolthing with all this. I you know BMW it, you know a onetimeinvestment of fifty dollars for a plastic stand and you know a minute of workon typing my name, printing it and walking outside and stuffing it in there. It made an impression. Okay, taking the time to go grab thecar and backing. How many times you show up, go, Oh yeah, oh, hold on second and they're gone for twenty minutes. So Icouldn't find the car. It's out for a test drive. It was inthe backlot. I was getting wash whatever. Like dude, I got places tobeat and your lobby ain't one of them and you knew I was comingat this time. Right, right. So nobody in you know, I'vebeen married twenty four years. We've bought a lot of cars. That's theonly time ever that any mights pulled a car around up front hand are readyfor us, you know. So this delighting to the up side. Youknow, that doesn't have to be crazy. Okay, including a Tutsie roll inthe order makes an impression, you know. And now from there youin dear yourself to them. Okay, way and again, instead of thinkinglinearly right, it's not top down, it's not left right, it's acircle. So connect all these with an Arrow, because when you endear yourselfto them, like David did to me at BMW, now we're back tothe attract phase. Okay, I personally went back and bought two more carsfrom him and I've sent multiple people and even to this day, you knowif I'm on facebook and some I think going to get in the car.You know, if they are in southern California, right, I mean noteven my town, like it's worth the drive. David will treat you right, you know, not give them a shout out. So I've probably helpedhim sell a few more, but I'll always tag him. And so that'sthe attract faith. Now it gets faster and faster and faster, because nowthese people, they're showing up on my recommendation. So the trust factor goesway up. It's one hundred percent free, right, David and Bor said BMW. They don't pay anymore to get those leads right and that that warmreferral takes care of the attract and part of the bond. If someone likesyou and trust you and you say you're going to like and trust this guy, I'm partly bonded already. I just need to make sure that it's asdescribed. Yeah, you bet. Is there any other nuance to this circle, or is it really as easy as abcde? Obviously executions hard, butare there any nuances to it? No, it's said, a tention to detailand none of this is hard, but it's being aware right and thinkingthrough each step, being observant, focusing on the customer right. We isexactly always said. You can get whatever you want. Help enough people getwhat they want. So take the focus off of you. Stop worrying aboutyourself. Figure out. You always tell sales people your number one job isnot to sell. Your number one job is to prospect and the number onefocus of prospecting it's just to get to the truth. Okay, yes,I love to make a sale, but you know today's Day and age,man, if I if I force something on you, if I trick youhigh pressure tactics, you may keep it, you know, you may keep yourmouth shut, but you're not coming back and buying more right. Butchances are you'll want the dost settles. You realize the game, the tricks, you'll get mad, you'll ask for a refund and you'll explain your storyon multiple places online and that lives forever, you know. So you go googlethat guy and it's what a rip off and high pressure. Avoid them, or you know you can, if... can buy from them, butdon't go and buy from David. You use a jerk. You know so. So just you know, to Jutsu we say slow your roll right,chill out a little bit, seek to serve, find out what the truthis. Do they really need you, and then help them get it.I love it. I think kind of in what I took in part fromwhat you just shared, there's something that I've been thinking about a lot andit's an it's an emerging theme for me, even though it's not genius in anyway. But it's this idea of you know, if you're if youfocus on the things upstream, of the clothes, the clos is just goingto happen. The conversions going to happen and you're actually setting yourself up fora better D and e when you're not focused on the conversion itself. Andyou know it's I think Bill Walsh wrote a book head coach of the Niners. Around is something around. You know, the score takes care of itself.Yeah, you know, you do the preparation, you show up theright way, you do the right work. You don't worry about are we goingto put twenty eight up on the boarder thirty one or whatever? Youknow, the score takes care of itself. If you do all the all theright work the right way. That's great. And there are two thingsthat you say that people will pay for and I really like both of them. I think they're both very interesting. I'd love for you to share thatwith me and the folks who are listening. Yeah, I mean they'll pay forexclusivity and they'll pay for experience and the to go hand in hand.And you know, the the cool thing from a business standpoint is the moreyou charge, the more money you have to create exclusivity and experience. Sojust like like David at BMW, He created an experience right, and andit was exclusive. You know, I was the only one with a carparked up there and it was parked kind of, kind of at an angle, so it was double parked, you know, like this was my spot, this was my moment. Okay, and they charge more than Ford does. Okay. So what can you do to make your prospects and your customersfeel like they're special? You know, if you're just, you know,wrapping up the deal, looking over their shoulder like for the next one?You see this at at networking events all the time, of trade shows.You know, unk up, you know you you see me right. Well, I say, good to see you. If I put a face, soname. Oh, Hey, Ethan. Yeah, yeah, how you doing? Yeah, it's just look at a lot, look at over thisshow. Is there someone more important I should be talking exactly? Oh,yeah, great to see you. Oh Yeah, yeah, I love yourselftware. Yeah, Oh, okay, look, I'll be right back. You know, you're like one am I, you know, nobody right. Andso it and again. It doesn't doesn't cost me anything to pay attention toyou. And Yeah, so we're at a trade show, we're the networkingevent. You don't want to get bogged down for thirty minutes talking to somebody. So practice right, like bill wash. You know if you're prepared, ifI know how to handle that, if and literally, if I've ifI've scripted this, if I've role played it. You know, anything,great to see, man, I love yourself. where, you know,talk for a little bit. How are you joining the show? You say, Hey, you know what, I've scheduled a quick meeting with somebody.See them walking on that would it be okay? You know, can wecatch up later tonight? Are you going to be at the happy hour?Maybe coffee tomorrow, whatever. Hey, you're really good to you. Thanksfor finding me, man. You know, good to finally meet you face toface. I can still do all that in one minute, two minutes, you know, and and get to the person I'm trying to meet,but still make you feel appreciate it right. And so you got to think throughthis and realize everything we do impacts everybody we meet. How we lookat them, how we shake their hand, do we make eye contact at all? Makes an impression. And that's, you know, the ABCD right atall. It all snowballs at all compounds and it's not it's not likesimple addition and subtraction. This is multiplication and division. You know, ifthat, if I make you feel better, it's like it's a x, three, x, ten x, whatever... you feel that much better orworse right based on how I make you feel. And so exclusivity and experiences. Do what you can to differentiate yourself. People always say, well, that'sall, we're different. If they would just give us a chance,they'd see that we're different. Unlike prove you're different by being different. Proveyou're different with every single step, every interaction. All right, send avideo email instead of a templated mass email. You know, use their name.Send a handwritten hard throw. It puts your role in the order.You know you'll prove you're different. But people are always doing for the easybutton. There's no easy button. Yeah, I love it. Those are yourtwo ease. There the things people pay for. They do go handin hand and I think you probably have a really good pass that you couldput together on the two a's, which are attention and appreciation. I mean, I think you know when you talk video email or you talk handwritten note, it's this, it's this attention to the person there's no faking the timeand attention it takes to write you a handwritten note or send you a trulypersonal video and the appreciation that you can express in the appreciation people are goingto feel. Those are the deepest human needs is to be seen and appreciated, and so I love where you are right there and I think you havesomething to do there with with attention and appreciation. It's kind of a handinhand. Let's go to another a that is actually in some ways, depending onhow well or how poorly it's executed, could be the opposite of that.Let's go to automation. You know you do a ton of work in inCRM and sales and marketing processes, marketing automation. Just you know, aswe approach my favorite questions of the day, which are the closing ones share withfolks, talk about the the balance between tech touch human touch, thecareful balance where you maybe see it go over the line, that kind ofthing. Like you know, in all of your time and experience helping salesand marketing people implement automation as part of their process, you know where doesit go well, where does it go poorly? What are some cautions andsome advice. Yeah, kind of my my motto the last year at least, and Ryan dispot brought this up when we were at an event last March. Talked about and doing what doesn't scale. And that's kind of the name ofthe game, I think, because everybody now has a funnel and apipeline and some type of automation broadcast tool, and so you still need those maybeat the top of the funnel right, maybe early in the relationship, earlyin the attract phase, but what can you do to make them createthat exclusivity, that experience? So you know, a personal email with sayingtheir name, or you know, a video email right and there I whoa, okay, that was not automated. That's somebody taking the time to makeme feel exclusive, to give me that experience. So my all means usethese tools, used automation, but again, realize there's no silver bulletre's no easybutton. Yeah, there's still a few people out there that think yousent the personal email, but most people know. They see the unsubscribed buttonthe bottom, they know it's a mass email. I see, you know, on Linkedin. I kind of found this out by accidents, but Iput a little red telephone icon in my first name and I did it justto stand out as you're scrolling, and that did how I actually got tosale two weeks ago because of it and specifically because of that, the guyfound me. But what I discovered? All these people are using screen scrapersto bulk harvest names off of linked in. You know they're not supposed to doit, but they do it and then they send bulk messages through Linkedinand they the software isn't small enough to pull icons out of a name sothat you know it's always west red phone, Comma. You know your profile.It's very interesting. Well, I...

...know immediately they harvested that name andI just skip right over them, you know. So maybe the other peoplethey reach makes it worthwhile, but because they're doing too much automation or justhaven't recognized that little glitch, they're losing some people and more and more peoplehave icons in their name. But I think maybe everybody hadn't figured that outyet. So exclusivity experiences keep focusing on that. Yeah, I think theauto slugs there and the easy giveaway it makes you feel like a number becauseyou are actually being treated like a number. They don't explain. Know that someshare of people are going to get like the just the blank first nameslug because it didn't come through. I just got, you know, Iget I got a piece that flip my first name in my last name,and so when it you know, so when they tried to get personal,it was, you know, hello, butte right like that. You didit wrong, right. If warm your heart, doesn't it? Yeah,it's in especially with large, large volumes. It's so interesting. I think youknow, everything you've been talking about is how do we keep the personalin the human in the sales process? How do we let the other personbe seen there? It is appropriate at some level to automate stuff, butat a certain point if the human, if you as the salesperson or themarketing person or the customer service, customer success person, is not adding valuein that process, you are going to be automated and it's just going tobe a highly transactional thing. And you know, when you're talking about theABCD and how it gets easier and easier the more cycles you do, Istarted seeing it as this you know, kind of positive upward thing that's shapedlike a, you know, a cone essentially, and the alternative is this, you know, the conical race to the bottom that you know, theprice goes to the bottom, everything goes out the window. It's strictly avolume play, etcetera. And so we're at this point here, with ourtechnology, with our processes, to make this decision. What are we goingto raise up and say is important, and what are we just going tolet be a race to the bottom, because, you know, the toolsand tech and the market place will let us do either one. We justhave to be intentional and not kind of like waffle out this situation. Yeah, I'm you had to figure out are you going to be Walmart or Nordscrums? You know, and both of them make a lot of money.Right we Walmart's clearly a lot bigger. But always tell people if you ifyou double your prices and lost half your customers, did you really lose allright, you're making the exact same amount of money. Work in half ishard, but the real on the is, you know, most people in businessare not going to just go spend that extra time, you know,Sun Tanning. They're going to focus on their business. So you're going tomaybe, instead of a fifty minute call with your clients. Now you cangive them a seventy minute call. Now they exclusivity and experience. Now theyfeel better. Now, maybe they renew more often. Maybe now they givemore referrals. Maybe you help them just get better results and they explode andthey come and buy your next thing. You know so, and maybe it'sa radical concept. So maybe you don't double your prices, but what ifyou had a ten or twenty or thirty percent? Things are going to getbetter. So don't be afraid to raise your prices, but make sure yougive service right, it's commensurate with the price increase. You just raise yourprices just to rage your prices, you can probably lose people and they're notgoing to be happy about it. You raise prices and make them feel better. People never forget how you make them feel right. Love it in thisidea. You know, let's see, you do bump up prices twenty percent, don't just pocket that margin. You know, put half of it intothe experience and it will be get more sales and yet still have ten pointson them. On on the markup. West, this has been great.I think from top to bottom, the themes have been very, very clear. I love your perspective. I appreciate you spending time with all of us. Before you go, though, I would love for you to think ormention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career here and maybegive a shout out to a company besides...

David at the BMW dealership in southernCalifornia that's really delivering a great experience for you as a customer. You knowit's a guy in Austin. I'm going out there and may Roy Williams,wizard of ads, Super Smart Guy, multiple New York Times best seller,but on the smartest people out there. And literally, if he if hedidn't have his business, you and I wouldn't be talking because I found mysales mentor through him and that's what led to me creating the sales whisper.So check out his work, wizard of ADS. And Little Old Dion Moser, right here in Myrietta, impact marketing. She's made all my shirts, allmy hats, all my swag, my brass coins that I give awayto clients. So she's been helping me for Lee at least twelve years,probably probably a little bit more than that. So impact DOT MS awesome. SoI know you're the guy with the red phone on Linkedin. We're alreadyconnected, but you know, folks want to connect with you on Linkedin orlearn more about the sales whisper any of the other work that you're doing.Where would you send folks they want to follow up on this conversation? Yeah, just go to the sales whispercom. Long time ago I move my socialicons out of the header and put them into the footer and I teach myclients through the same thing. I don't want people clicking away right away andgoing down a rabbit hole, you know, and social media. So but allmy infos are my phone number, you know, contact us. It'sall there, so you can opt in and you if you see a reportor something that you like. But I don't use any fancy tools to automatethe social media stuff. So if you if you get a tweets or facebookor linkedin message back from me Instagram, it's literally coming from me. Soyou reach out and say hello. Awesome, West Shaffer, thank you so muchfor your time today. We're recording this on a Friday morning. Iwish you an awesome rest of your Friday and a wonderful weekend ahead. HeyMan, you too, thanks for having me. Thank you. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits ofadding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do withjust a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business.How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order todayat Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experiencepodcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is tocreate and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategiesand tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcompodcast.

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