The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

66. Restoring The Human Factor To Fulfill The “Big CX Dream” w/ Ben Smithwell

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Basically, CX is in a pretty bad state. Stagnating macro studies on customer experience like the CXI metric are just one indicator…

 

In other words, the so-called “Big CX Dream” has failed to live up to its billing. 

 

In this episode, we talked about some of the soft spots and even illusions in the modern Customer Experience movement… Ben Smithwell joins us on The Customer Experience Podcast! 

 

Ben is the Director and CX/Service Design Principal at Comotion and the Director and CX/Service Design Strategist at Smithwell. 

 

What we talked about:

- The Spock vs. Kirk customer experience battle

- The evidence showing that the Big CX Dream has failed to live up to its billing

- The tendency to treat CX as an ideology rather than a discipline

- The tool-led rather than expertise-driven nature of CX

- The human factor that can help fulfill the Big CX Dream

 

Check out this resource we mentioned during the podcast:

 

- Ben’s TEDx Talk about removing bullies

 

- My TEDx Talk about the Flight Back to the Face 

 

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

If you look at the battles,become more customer centric. It feels me it's a battle teams. Who mightsays I call it the spot in the analogy. The single most important thingyou can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieveddesired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This isthe customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Today we're going tobe talking about some of the soft spots and even illusions in the moderncustomer experience movement. Our guest observes several orthodoxies and rule sets that are inplay, and some of them are neither helpful nor effective. To this conversationhe brings an expertise he's been building for years in CX and CS design andstrategy. The oneliner for Comotion, the company he works with we build customerled businesses. The oneliner for Smithwell, his own consultancy, articulating brands throughremarkable experience. This one's going to be fun. Ben Smithwell, welcome tothe customer experience podcast. Thank you, very much for the introduction. Yeah, before we get going, you and I have something approximately in common.We both delivered a TEDX talk at about the same time. Yours was ahalf a year yeah, yeah, yours was a half a year and fortyfour hundred miles away from mind and in yours, frankly, was, Ithink, more impactful than mine in the way that you delivered it. Andit was about bullying as an epidemic in the workplace. And you know,people can watch for the details. I'll drop a link. If you visitBombombcom podcast, I'll drop a link, just like I drop video clips andother elements in around this episode so people can watch to get the content.But you did a great job drawing a parallel between bullying with your daughter atschool and bullying in the workplace, and so he had some very specific pauses. You had to walk away from the MIC. Like you created a verypowerful experience there. Just talk about that talk, how you prepared for it, especially from an experiential standpoint point. Yeah, thanks so for I'Ma saythat is the most terrifying talk of ever had to deliver, as you yourselfno, it's you've got your what ten and eleven minutes to do, you'vegot a Pretze, you've got a night of stuff. It has to bescript. You know, you know, so exactly where you are. Ithink sick has the some of the subject matter is quite a motive. Ifind actually very difficult. There was several instance, it is quite embarrassing actuallyduring the talk, of nearly just completely lost in that to stop so asdeep breathing through it. It's a topic very close to my heart. Givesa consultant going out of lots of different organizations. If you can, youcan smell the toxicity. In some places you can. You can just senseit a mile off and I think it's a it's kind of a scandal thatno one's really got their arms around yet, as in too many places. Yeah, it's really interesting. I do...

...encourage folks to go check it out. Do you remember the title of it? If people wanted to search it?It's been Smithwell, ted X, Ted X. I think it wascalled removing bullifs or something like that. Yeah, it is definitely worth awatch because you raised a number of points that are just too far below theradar in the the status quo, in the power structure inside most organizations preventsanything from really happening until people on the front lines take control over it andchange the culture themselves. And so you had a really strong called action there. Any way, great work. Thank you very much. That means alot to me. Pipe I put a lot of below myself and someone Ithink that was the tough talk to do. So let's get into it properly aswe get into this conversation and I'm excited to hear your perspective on avariety of things, especially against some of those illusions that we operate under.But let's start with your thoughts or characteristics of customer experience. When I saycustomer experience, what does that mean to you? That's a brilliant question becauseI think the answer is pop some difficult that it sounds. If you lookat the battles become more custom eccentric. It feels me if it's a battleteams who mindsets. I call it the spock in the Kerk analogy. Andif you look at, suppose, the way businesses is being set up,the fight fabric constructors and the way we run discipline of labor, etc.Etc. It's very it's very post industrial revolution. I caught the spot.Orientation, where a lot of it is today, is still very driven,for good reasons, by logic, by rigger by numeracy, by stoicism.I always good things, which are wonderful characteristics. They actually need to bethere the problems. That starts to feel a little cold, it lacks alittle emotion. When the agenda starts to shift from that. Tools actually needto double down on providing value for human beings, that orientation becomes less useful. It's always the interplay between the two. Were trying to find a balance inthe new economy. So I think that's quite a rambling long answer toyour question. I think that's fundamentally what we're talking about. That I reallylike the analogy. I like the way you drew it out. I thinkeven even if someone who's not a hardcore star Trek Fan, I could absolutelyfollow that and it makes perfect sense. Also, before we go too muchfarther, can you talk a little bit about I know, who does comeemotion serve? Who is your customer? What problem do you solve and whatdoes a x strategy and design engagement look like? Yeah, sure, sowe serve lots and lots of divid industries. So we work within financial services.We've worked the props public sector as well. We've done stins in theretail leisure I guess, if I'm honest, whilst every sector has its own particularproblems and problem statements, I think a lot of it all comes downto the same set of problems around how do we continuously provide value to thecustom or the students or the patient or the citizen on an ongoing basis andstretched our ordization around delivering that consistently. I guess customers and Trists seat,but actually baking it in such Ada it...

...reorients to day of the organization.That's that's really what we're about there. So I sup back to the spotand the Kirk being and the Yang. The second part of good question arounda customer experience strategy. We can do all the logic, the rigger,the thinky stuff, the quantity stuff, the numbers, all that stuff.I think where we come into our own is actually on the softer side ofthings. For thing is a terrible term for it, it kind of doesit down. We spend a lot of time culturally help me our clients tore Orion, I think, to face the fear of change in front ofthem and these kinds of things. So, if I'm completely honest, I thinkthe best work we do is probably into personally, the strategy itself isalways a hygiene factor to us. That's almost easy bit, I think helpinghuman beings through a period of change. I think that's really are and thescience and the craft of customer experience. Gosh, I love that you wentstraight to the to the human side of it, in the behavior change,the perspective change. You know, in a lot of the work that wedo here at bomb bomb, you know we're trying to do the same thingand I see it all the time any transformation and change management, etc.Do you have any tips? Like you seem very oriented toward the human sideof things, with full and proper respect for the kind of data driven sidein the strategy side. Do you have any tips from working inside a rangeof different organizations and, I assume, a range of personality types? Youknow, how do you get through the people to help drive that? Youknow the change has to come from within. How do you help? I feellike you can't probably rationalize people into some of the change thing. Didyou need to like you emote them in like do you have any tips forpeople that are responsible for changing other people's perspectives in behavior? Yeah, that'sa really good question actually. So have to answer that in two ways.I think there has to be an emotional side of things and that's almost aneasier one to talk to, and so we will do a lot with peoplearound particularly exact boards, around storytelling, trying to help them Aligne I think, psychologically and also as a group, around a particular vision of the future. Again, without alignment at the top of organization you things can fall apartvery quickly. You can invest a lot of money and just waste it.So we double down on that. I think one of my observations round thewhole cxpiece, and I think the customer experiences a profession pieces that. Sothis this rigger, is actually missing from out of the ECAGENCY. See,it's as if people have swallowed the humans pill but forgot about the rigger aswell, and so a lot of the work the big corporates, where itfails, and often it does fail, unfortunately, is that people haven't setout right at the beginning of their journey, of their transformation journey, to proveout the Roy of the experience itself. So, for instance, here,what is the total cumulative value of the leaky bucket at the moment?How much money we're losing from simply being rubbish? How many customs are weturning away? What is the impast right now today, when you can starta quantify those things out? I think that's satisfies you the spot part ofthe equation for organization. So I think...

...for all the rhetoric around X asa discipline about human beings, behaviors and emotions, which okay, it is, fundamentally an organization within any sector really only cares about money. A lotof business they care about money, they care about the bottom line. Ifyou do not satisfy the corporates requirement to see things through a financial lends,you can you're making money or saving money. You've probably lost already. And Ithink this is what a lot of customer experience professionals are forgetting to dotoday. And I think a lot of the failure endemic in sex transformations isactually one of the simpast I see is people's, I think, misstep rightand the start of the transformative journey into let's do sing great for customers ratherthan sitting back saying this is the size of the prize, but this iswhen I need to double down on it. Yesterday. So I think there's athere's a miscommunication out in the whole industry. Even in that answer Ihear the spark and Kirky in in Yang in there and and the storytelling,by the way. I mean, if you really want to speak to peopleand connect to people in a meaningful way, that rigger in the beginning to say, you know, what is the harm being done now with the statusquo and what is the potential upside financially if we make the transformation? Imean that's just part of the story. That is going to help people bedrawn into the transformation so that they're bought in not just cognitively or intellectually,but that they're also brought in emotionally. This is it. What's in itfor you? You know, what do you want to get out of this? How do you want to be famous? We asked feel that constantly. Howdo you want to be famous? What you want to leave your Malcolm, if you don't talk to again, the rational spock or and take theemotional context of say the exact not just the exact but everyone beneath as well. How do you wrap that into a story, into a vision that peoplecan buy into? But also on that person whatever, what does it meanfor your career? It's almost like a trumver that if you can't tick allthe boxes, you can find very, very difficult to, I think,authentically get by, and I think it's the thing around authenticity that I thinkwe would observe a lot of CX efforts are. They go off a bithalf cocked. There's some investment and they'll move a few steps forward and thenthey'll stall and then they'll palm more and more investment, probably not really givethe desire to own and think will start to red falter over time. Soyou need to keep a breast of the humans all the while when you gointo these organizations. Typically, what teams are you working with in other stagesto this type of you know, obviously there's a I'm imagining this, socorrect me where at my imagination is off. There's probably some level of a discoveryphase where you're doing some of the quantification you're talking about and figuring outyou know who's who, what's what, what is the state of affairs,you draw out a plan for the transformation, you probably get buying internally from,you know, the decisionmaker or your main champions internally, who ever broughtyou in for the engagement, and then you start executing. Is that theapproximate structure and what teams inside and organization are you typically engaging in this transformation? And another great question. So I think transformation be approached in many maydifferent ways and I guess there is.

Unfortunately, there's no one size fitsall template for it. Obviously, being consults are hard. We have tenmillion different one tools and methodize and frameworks and journeys you can go through,but it has to be tailored to the individuals. In terms of the structureof it. If you're looking at a ner CX strategy, I think someof the stage you've listed there, you know, they make a lot ofsense. But I think the that's what's the real proof. The pudding isin the eating and it's how you respond to things as you go through thatjourney. I mean it is a journey and when we speak to our clientswe will say that they will be blood, snart, sweat and tears. Weguarantee that and that's factually a Lim and thing. You. How muchdo you want this? Because this will be difficult. But there is usuallyyou're some kind of a discovery phase and you're trying to figure out what theworld looks like. What's shifted in their universe? Has the market shifted assomething getting disrupted? What is it about the customer? They change of theirexpectation shifted? So there's lots to unpick there. But actually, if hiton saying really interesting I think what the wrong approach would be from experiences,to align all of your information, form at a prom statement and then landthe big, big deck on the desk. That absolutely does not work. It'snot very human. Being centric, we find that actually have to reviewyour plans on a much, much more frequent basis to respond to things asthey happen. And so when we talk about sex strategy, we actually useit through more of an Agile Lens. I think you have to have apretty concrete vision. You have to aligne around it. You know some kindof plan to get there. These have just enough will room to change yourplans as a when you need to throw out that journey again back to thethe CX. As a profession side of things. If you're not, asa function, constantly arenting around, where is the value today? Where isthe value tomorrow? Where's the value next quarter, you'll probably find that theorganization will start to lose belief quite quickly. Yeah, the agile approach makes perfectsense. As opposed to dumping a giant plan on and just executing itexactly as designed. I think the agile approach makes so much more sense.You refer to something that that I was hoping to talk about a little bitbecause you're far more experienced in school than I am by many, many miles, or measures, however you want to measure it. You know, youtalked about like like frameworks or rule sets or orthodox he's like different approaches tox. What are some of those? Where do we get them? Howdo we judge them? Is there one that you prefer? Does again,a terrific question, I think. To answer that, I think I wouldhave to put my stall Outli and say I have a problem with a lotof the core up orthodoxies of customer experienced think as a profession today, Ithink the problem to an extend is the orthodoxies and the degree to which westick to them. It seems to becoming a very, very fixed profession withquite a shallow tool kit. I'll probably come back to a little bit later. So, for instance, we would observe a lot of customer experience professionalsto do a lot of things like journey mapping. That's absolutely fine. Iwouldn't take that away from anyone. The...

...one thing I would observe, whichis one of the the central axioms of customer experience manage of the moment,is that people are doing these things, whether they're really questioning is this goingto give us fair name is just the most valuable thing we could be doingright and now. There's no point spending six months mapping your whole world,doing a load of primary research if, fundamentally there's an obvious problem. Staywent over there somewhere in your let's say your service centers or particular part ofa digital interactions where you could save several millions of pounds tomorrow. Why wouldyou start with the I think, the output rather than the outcome? They'recraning on of outputs, but they're not designing their activity around delivering hard businessmetric driven outcomes that businesses fundamentally want from them. So I think when itcomes to the tool kit, I think there's a lot of stuff that's beenborn stolen. I can see. It's a lot of stuff from the kindof lean design tool get. There's some stuff from lean sub stuff from agile. Lot of stuff again beg bar and stolen from the world of service designand design thinking, etc. Etc. What I would observe is that thetool kid is getting smaller and people in bedding deep and ceasing to think abouthow could we do things better and find a lot of the rhetoric with inthe CX community nowadays is actually quite bland. It's vanilla, it's boring, I'llbe honesty. Than to me the only sexy thing in CX is talkingabout how much money you've made, how much cost you say, or thingsthat that's what the business cares about. This is a business oriented discipline.I think it's a secondary observation here around the way that business itself has envelopedsex as a discipline and what it has done with it. Back to thiskind of post industrial revolution tailorist mindset. They're terrified of ambiguity and, asa result, they want certainty, they want stuff to look rigorous and numerouswith with articles of certainty. They like process to like to put stuff alittle boxes so we can organize it and think the world is less chaopic thanis. A group of people who are thought leads, are experts in anarea will start to do some great work. Everyone wanted on it. They'll startto invest in it heavily, but over time the corporate mentors will takeover and the rhetoric will turn from how can you deliver exceptional value from ourcustomers through to actually, how could we turn this into a five step processwhere we start off with this, then we go to that. So thevery nature of organizations themselves, it seems to dictate the customer experience of professionwill do, and I think empirically as by the way, get worse overtime. We seem to the last couple of years I think things are startingto get the worse across across lots of different locations in the globe in termsof customer experience, which seems preposterous. I've seen another set of longing tudealmetrics being measured across in the UK and Europe, suggesting the same that customerexperiences are probably getting worse. I think that says a lot. I thinkthe profession needs to stand up and probably look at itself in the and thinkabout how it could respond to this.

Can you go deeper and the toolset? You said it's narrowing, but what are some of the tools andhow do those help in or harm this the current state of affairs? Yeah, it's a good one, I think. Let me let me think about themeasurement tool kit. That's a good one to start with. Obviously everyCherry Organization we speak to is measuring lots and lots of stuff. Again,back to the spock mentality. You're trying to wrap her arms around the chaosand Abigutu ambiguity of the world. So you measure stuff. It's like asecurity blanket of numbers, and things like MPs, for instance, get oneof the the central tenets and axioms of customer experience management that NPS is,and these kind of Lord the Rings ask metrics to rule them all, andso everyone adopts it again, broadly, without thinking about it. They'll stickit in. Asking the question in a slight strange way at a slight adifferent time, Thans optim in the customer journey, and then you'll collect dataand you'll try and extract meaning from it, but it from fundamentally get you anycloser to understanding, a suppose, the human experience at the end ofyour company's product or or service. So I think what the central things rightnow is trying to suppose to re educate people around the fact that it's greatto measure stuff, but that can only tell you us both so much ofthe story. I think what observed at the moment is a lot of professionalsare, I think, turning x into I call it quantitative pornography. You'regoing to measure. Lots of staff have some good rule is stats and graphsand things like that that a lot of the tool can I'd like to seepeople adopting more deeply would be probably around qualitative research and the key mucky sleevesrolled up and set of activities and tools and methods they can deploy to tryand understand people on a deeper, more emotional behavioral level. So again herewe are at the Union Ying where we do need the the hard, thehard quant stuff, but we also need the quality of research in which kindof answers my follow up question is, you know, I if a lotof the basic survey type data, behavior observation that's highly quantifiable. If thoseare not enough, where do we get what we need? And it soundslike qualitative research to there are particular approaches to qualitative research that you appreciate morethan others. It sounds reductive, but I think people just need to understandwhat qualitative research is. I think, I'd say, pray one thousand ninehundred and ninety five percent of six people. I meet a Prett people in business, I mean or you between you, and they can work the way aroundyour set of stats, of charts and the metrics and make an interpretationbased on that. When it comes to human beings, I think it's muchmore difficult. But I would observe. Actually, if you give people training, which we always do over pretty much any any clients engagement, we havegift field training and basic qualitative research technique. So you how you would set uphypotheses to test, how you would understand what kinds of you we wantto speak to and in what manner and what contextual interview looks like, whatethnography is and how you can do some basic stuff around that, and thenhow you can take different ambiguous, wonderful...

...human qualitative sources overlay some quantitative stuffand try and you simulate what that means. I think that is one of thecore skills that that seems to be missing in contemporary business. Get alot of coolar comfortable with numbers. The human element of the things. Itreally, really terrifies people. So I was being to ahead of science fora very big sort of multi billion corporate because last year, and he toldme, I don't make your sleep, he didn't believe in qualitative research becauseit was small sample and therefore is misleading, in the waste of time, andthat, as she is actually quite common, I find in business circles. So if there's one thing I could recommend to people, not just sexpeople but I think, just business people in general, is to acquaint yourselveswith the basics and the fundamentals of qualitative research. It's probably on the singlemost powerful things you could start those. Your quant will tell you what ishappening. Your qualitator stuff will help you approximate you why something's happening, andthat stuff is absolute gold tust. You can really work with that a Ilove working with quality of research and be you know, I definitely buy youryou know, here's the what, but then there's the so wire or evenbetter yet, the why so and in quality to help build that bridge.But you know any any additional cautions about making sure that you know when you'respeaking to an executive like the gentleman you just referred to? How do youhow do you walk that down to that there's that confidence that people need toproceed base down the learning. There's a brilliant question. I try to reframeit just just a little bit. If we're talking about doing insight and Researchand bouncing off qual and quant your entirely right, because you could drive abus through some qualitative research and there will be ambiguity and subjectivity. Definitely.If I reframe it as not just insight or research, but also change itto be discussion around insight and design, so rather applied insights, I canchange the conversation and say actually, we will do some qualitas stuff, andyou are correct, because it will pack some assumptions, it will be lucky, it'll be greasing, we won't know what to do with it. Butif we view it through a design Lens, which is we take inside and dosomething with it, what we can do is take all of that inputand create some hypotheses. And what we're going to do next we're going totest it, you know, on the front line with the propositions, withlight touch power together by sticky tape. Only when something has had some kindof interface with a customer do you know whether it's broadly true or not.And that actually applies to quantitate of stuff as well. It's just a quantitativestuff. It often looks more reliable and it can be statistically in scientifically reliableup front. But if we reframe the conversation around let's do something with theinsight, that's test some hypotheses and continually get closer to the truth, that'show you can get the value out of these kinds of approaches. And soagain, what we're doing as re orienting from a world where you commissioned onepiece of Equality Big Bang Research and do...

...the one giant conservator rule more throughto what we call minimum viable research, or MVR, which is where youyou take a little nibble and you see what you can interpret based on thecontext another data point you have. You test it out phaps of the differentpiece of research, but very, very like touch swinging some customers see ifit rises or falls. And so if you take you a much more agileapproach to the way you learn about environment or a customers need, we findthat that will bring you and how to quantify truth, but it'll bring youcloser to the truth over time, much, much quicker if you just rely onone piece of evidence. So smart. I'm really glad I ask that andit's, of course, completely in line with some of the other themesthat you've already spoken to, specifically agile and and I love the mvur approachas well. You're obviously helping a lot of organizations, but you also havea cautionary approach to you know that the big CX dream, CX as anideology, the corporatization of CX as a discipline. You know you've offered somevery fair criticisms as well. What is the what is the next five toten years of x? Where is the best hope? How do we recoverfrom any of the weaknesses that you've observed in the way that we're approaching thistoday? Think at high level we need to create professionals who have comfortable withdealing with ambiguity and what I mean is that again back to your spock andKerk orientations? Everything we do is ambiguous. We are selling products and services tohuman beings. We can never truly know what's going through their minds.It's simply impossible. If we run away from ambiguity, that is when CXgets worse. Okay, when we start to run face first into a mistyforest not knowing what's going to happen, that is when you get the bestarts, as that's when you can start to create the best strategies. SoI suppose the analogy it's if the world is a misty forest. Would observedthat customer experienced fresholds are standing around the outside trying to, you measure thedensity of the fog and perhaps how the trees aren't at they're wondering about whatby in the might be in the middle. Sometimes the best thing to do isjust run into the forest, and which sounds like good of a maverickapproach, but if I rewind over a couple decades of work in this space, that is where you tend to get the best results. You have tohit a PROLEM statement head on and, almost like the super coliberate cern,see what fractures off it and see what happens. That's a great way oflearning. So bads things of chaos and order. It's just like a ahigh level stuff. I think at a lower level of as I mentioned already, I want to see people getting much more comfortable with with qualitative research andunderstanding human beings. What would I really aspire for there the next five orso years? And this is going to sound really, really unambitious either,but I was trying and tell the truth and I think this is what thetruth is going to look like. I think we'll see people hopefully go backto basics, go back to where this whole thing started and why it worksand why it should work, doubling down...

...on simple things such as can wecreate the case for change it? What does the business case look like?Now? I could wax lyricle for a per hours and hours around you thedifferent kinds of tools that becoming our wake and stuff, an ai and mland stuff like that. That's all fine, but these things don't help until theyare in the hands of professionals who know how to use them properly.So I don't think there'll be any great technological fix. I think all thebuilding blocks are in front of US already. It's just about getting back to basics. So the first advice I give any new chief customer officer or healthdepartments or person want to get in to see x particular the style of anytransformational journeys. You what are the two three things to make the biggest impactwithin the next six month or so she'll find a lot of sex departments.If you're not shown you're really strong, several EXP return on the investment withintolls eighteen months, you'll start to be sidelined. People become seconded off intodifferent areas of the business. So double down on the impact. Everything elsecan wait forget your journey maps in episodas and all the pretty stuff you wantto stick on the walls. I want to see a Selfie in front ofa spreadsheet showing how much cash they've made for the business or how much costthey're reduced or how much better empirically they made the experience. So I thinkit's back to basics, move and so good. I like both levels.It's a great way to kind of put a but and on this conversation,which I've enjoyed very, very much. If you, as a listener haveenjoyed this conversation. There are a couple other conversations here on the customer experiencepodcast that you might enjoy, specifically episode fifteen with Joey Coleman, another CXdesigner and strategist. That one is you have a hundred days to create orlose a lifelong customer. That's Joey Coleman on episode fifteen or Dan Ginghis onepisode thirty five. Two keys to creating extraordinary customer experience and it's easier thanyou might think. So then, I because relationships are our number one corevalue here at bombomb and here on the show. I'd love to give youthe chance to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your lifeor career. I think would say my dad actually, and he is anengineer by trade. He had nothing to do with what I do. Isa professionally. He still has no idea what I do, but he hewas a leader of a company. It's a way back in the s.They went through very difficult period and he was US recession and things are very, very tough, and I remember the thing I learned from him is totreat people well. I think irrespective of the personal consequences, and so whatobserved in him was that they put the employee first and the customer first andnobody lost a single penny. That shouldn't have. So, whilst it wasa really bad situational round, I think it was dealt with with humility andtruth and I think I've always sort of taken up with me. So Ithink doing the right thing as was a commando to assuay the power of thatreally good. I love this idea of doing the right thing and treating peoplewell, regardless of the consequences to yourself. Doing it in the right spirit isalmost as important as just doing it.

So great reference here, and you'reone of only a handful of folks who is mentioned a family member,so I really appreciate that as well. How about a company that you respectfor the way they deliver for you as a customer? Yeah, this isso. It's one of my favorites at the moment and yeah, it's probablynot one a lot of x guys with sites which pretty quite like about that. It's is Aldi. Now you might have heard of them. There areenormous supermarket chain, the very big in Germany and Europe, but fifteen sixteencent market share in the UK, so they're pretty big deal. The interestingthing with Aldi is that if you walk in there, there is absolutely nothingsexy about it at all. Ethan. It's a mess, you'll pray havepalettes on the floor of be part empty boxes everywhere. It is an absolutemess. Is a bit of a jungle sale. But, and this iswhy I love them as a sort of a CX exemple they know exactly wheretheir customers go there and that's why doesn't pay for extra staff to clean upthe floor. It's actually it's who intend suppose. It's quite a rubbish experience. Who you get to the you get to the till, the people firethat stuff through the till so quick you can't actually pack your bag. Sothe experience analities. You have to bundle stuff into your trolley, but walkspeed. Then you have to take it outside and pack your bags. Soit's not so ton but, and this is a big but, when youcome to pay, you see the figures comp on the screen, you walkout of our the I guarantee clicking your heels. You've absolutely made a wonderfulpurchase, because they sell stuff that is so cheap and such good quality asan absolute no brainer. If they could tie up the stores, they couldhave proper shelves and get the get the guys in stored where the proper uniformof time and really make it look great. But actually that, I have animpact on the prices and that's not what Aldea is about. So theyknow who they are, they know who that customer is. They play tothat high equation. Absolutely dauts fantastic example. We all have to play our owngame. We have to know who our customer is. We want tooptimize kind of the value equation for them, or even maximize it for them,and so I love this idea of like you know, we're not goingto conform to all of the norms and standards that were, you know,I'm air quoting here, supposed to to follow and supposed to honor. We'regoing to play our game for our customer and our customers appreciate us for it. So good, great example. Hey been if people enjoyed this conversation,they want to follow up with you or Comotion, where would you send peopleto learn more and to connect with you? Well, thesest way is just findme on Linkedin. I'm on there all the time. So Ben Smithwill work fist our website, which is wwwcom so CMO, tio and ALCOM. We hang out one of those two plays. Don't very active on Linkedin, so come and say hi to me, reach out to been on Linkedin.Be sure to add a note. I always appreciate when someone adds anote to a connection request for me. It just gives me some context andand if you're listening to this, you...

...enjoyed it, you want to learnmore, you want to check out that tedex talk. We put up postson all of these episodes at Bombombcom podcast been. Thank you so much foryour time. I really really appreciate everything you brought here and thank you simso much. She was having this is being wonderful. I've really enjoyed us. This a real privilege to had to join us the thank you very muchindeed. Clear Communication, Human Connection, higher conversion, these are just someof the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It'seasy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book.Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience.Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks forlistening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing youcan do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers.Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcastplayer, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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