The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

75. Emotional Intelligence and The Power of Faces w/ Dan Hill


The only two currencies in the world are dollars and emotions. Emotion is also an often overlooked component of customer experience. When it comes to human emotions, the face is the window to the soul, meaning that facial expressions — if you know how to read them — truly reveal what is happening on the emotional scale.


The insight that there are 7 emotions in terms of facial coding and that only one of them is truly positive will help companies shape the customer experience and the employee experience.


In this episode, I interview Dan Hill, President of Sensory Logic and author about all things EQ, to hear about how video can unlock human emotion.


What we talked about:


- 3 tips for framing your face properly in video


- One person on camera is better than two … or three … or more


- Our buying choices stem from desiring pleasure and avoiding danger


- The less you see of the face, the less your brain fires


Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:


- Emotionomics: Leveraging Emotions for Business Success


- Famous Faces Decoded: A Guidebook for Reading Others


- First Blush: People’s Intuitive Reactions To Famous Art


Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

We are going to remember the seriingemotional experience for a long time, and that plays right back to the valueof what we bought and to the brand equity for the company. So experienceequals emotions in my game. The single most important thing you can do todayis to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceedcustomer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast.Here's your host, Ethan Butte Hey. Unless your job is about to beautomated, your success is state in your ability to build trust, rapportand relationships with other people, hiring, selling and negotiating, interacting with yourboss, your team members and your customers, even connecting with your family members andfriends. Today's guest is an expert on emotions and he can help usdo all of these things more effectively. He's the founder and president of sensorylogic, a company that's done market research for half of the world's top onehundred BAC companies. He pioneered the use of facial coding in business. Morethan twenty years ago. He's received seven US patents related to advanced methods toanalyze facial coding data, and he's the author of several books, including emotionnomics, leveraging emotions for business success. First Blush, people's intuitive reactions tofamous art and famous faces decoded, a guide book for reading others. DanHill, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Well, thank you so much,Ethan, for that very kind introduction. Sure, I just I really appreciatethe body of work that you've generated over your career and I'm really excitedfor the conversation. It's obviously, you know, we're in this age wheretechnology is so well advanced that we're really questioning in a variety of ways ora variety of conversations that are around. You know, what does it meanto be human, and certainly in the context of creating and delivering a customerexperience, this is this kind of tech human divide or blend is, youknow, forcing a lot of these conversations. You know emotions are really important.So dollars and emotions, those are the two currencies in the world.Good, I love it. Great precursor to the conversation before we get goingon customer experience in particular. You're in the Minneapolis St Paul area. I'dlove for you to share and work. We're recording this on Thursday April.Second, could you share what's the current state of affairs there regarding the coronaviruspandemic? How's it affecting you or your family, your team, your customers, just kind of what's going on where you are? Sure? Well,we have a pretty proactive governor. So we've gone into virtual lockdown mode andpeople are being asked to stay home. So we're a bit ahead of thecurve on that. Fortunately, behind the curve we are not. In NewYork City. We have about five hundred cases so far, but they arewrapping up about every through three days. We double and probably the closest EPIcenter for us as Chicago and then Michigan beyond that. So obviously it's comingour way, but the expected peak is late May. Okay. Well,very best to you all, as we sure it's one of the more interestthings that things happened in your lifetime. It certainly is for me. Itcertainly puts emotions front and the center for all of us, and I actuallyhave both a sister in law and her daughter who are nurses on the frontline in Chicago and DC respectively. So we are very concerned but also reallyproud of the efforts they're making. Yeah, I can imagine on both accounts they'reso let's get into it, Dan, and again best to your family.It's a really appreciate what they're doing. When I say customer experience, whatdoes that mean to you? What does it conjure? Well, itconjures that there are a lot of touch points and it you have to keeptrack of all the different angles, a bit like playing pool. You don'tknow how you're to get the ball into the pocket, but you got totry. You know, everyone has an experience interacting with the company. Itcan be good, it can be bad,... can be indifferent. Way Toooften it's indifferent or even downright frustrating. I think the important that it getsleft out of defining customer experience is that emotions are going to come withit and they don't just come with it. I think they're actually, in manyways the value proposition. We are going to remember the seering emotional experiencefor a long time and that plays right back to the value of what webought and to the brand equity for the company. So experience equals emotions inmy game. Really, really good call there. I do obviously hit severalof the key themes that that I hear repeatedly in asking a variety of smartpeople that question, including yourself, and that's it's every touch point. It'shappening whether you intend for it to be happening or not, you said,you know, positive, negative or indifferent. And then again, that emotional componentleads us with kind of the thoughts and the feelings that become our onlinereviews, two stories we tell other people or to the indifferent, as ifit just didn't even matter at all. You know, emotions are really contagious. They're contagious between the people you're interacting with and they're contagious in terms ofwhat you're going to share with other people. To underestimate the power of emotions isbasically to buy a ticket toward bankruptcy, of my opinion. Sure, sotalk a little bit more about the emotional components of the customer experience oreven the employee experience. You know, you're a tune to like a barometerof value. You already referred to that a little bit, but just kindof break that down a little bit more from a practical standpoint. Yeah,I think we gave even talk in terms of the evolution of customer experience,which I love, because you're now trying to look at the holistic picture andhow you're going to design it, how you're going to measure it, implementedall of that. So it's a really a creative exercise and the nice thingis it's a lift up from what we used to have, which was simplythere was a customer service department. What did that really do? That wasthe catch base and at the end of the process, and what it meantwas I didn't get any customer service, I didn't get any customer satisfaction,and the entire emotional dynamic around that was essentially fear, because you had thepoor person who probably wasn't really very empowered by the company, not so wellpaid, maybe a fairly recent higher within the company. They're just trying tolearn all the processes and procedures and now they have this ballistic missile coming atthem, which is the unhappy customer. Fear is not a lubricate for goodcommunication. I mean, what do you do when you are fearful, youeither fight, so now you're going to have a confrontation between the two parties. You're going to flee, so you basically try to avoid them, oryou freeze, and freeze is really likely because you're stuck behind the desk oron the phone with somebody and they don't hear you, you don't hear themand nothing good happens. So it is so wonderful that the customer experience istrying to climb out of that, because it really needs to start early onand we need to bring some other emotions besides fear into the equation. Quiteobviously. So in my terms and facial coding terms, there are seven emotions. They are the playbook. And there is happiness, which is the onlytruly positive emotion, and we can talk about variations of that like delight andRelief and pride and hope, but that's essentially your one positive emotion. Thereis a neutral emotion, surprise, because you can have a positive surprise,I got a new car for Christmas. You can have the negative surprise,I got a new car accident on the way home from war work. Sothat's your neutual emotion. That's going to go one direction or other and thenwe have to deal with anger and sadness and fear and disgust and content.I'm sure we'll get into those, but that's essentially the playbook. If you'rereally going to do customer experience well, you need to take an account wherethose done nevers going to play out. What could be the triggers? Howdo I get out of the when I call the speed bumps, the negativeemotions, and how do I accentuate the positive really good? I am withyou as a customer. Of course, we're all everyone that's on the show. Of course, as customers, were all customers in addition to trying tomanage some aspect of a business and in...

...service of customers. I love thatthe competitive environment has really forced customer experience back up into the conversation and reallyforced a lot of companies to think a lot more about it. And you'reabsolutely right. So many unempowered people. I'm thinking now historically. Hopefully it'snot happening too much anymore, although in canceling a bunch of travel here infirst and second quarter, I certainly dealt with people who are not empowered tomake decisions and to really serve the customer. And to your point, you know, it's just like any situation, fight or flight or freeze. Andyou know, I came in hot on a rat on a customer service repon the phone the other day and she just immediately turned it around for me. So there are you know, there are a lot of people doing thesethings well. And so I and again, I think the the business environment,and on both the customer and the employee side, his force companies tobe better about this and to probably start acting more in the service of theiremployees, not just their customers. Yeah, and you're dealing with a person.I mean this is all we can we talk about B to be andbe deceived. It's be top it's business. Two people, you work with,people, you sell two people. When a if you go back tothe traditional format of the customer service, they come with a story because reallyit's their personal worth that's on the line of this moment. They feel likethey made a mistake, they bought something, they didn't get what they expected,the company is bigger than them and has their money. And Yeah,they want their money back or they want satisfaction, but they also want tobe validated as a person, which involves actually listening to them. And ifyou truly listen to them, you're also going to take no account their emotions. So to me it's so important for people to lift their emotional IQ,their eq. I have sometimes a market research conferences put out the easiest testin the world. Seven emotions. I don't even give them like a fakeeighth choice. Seven emotions and here's the essence, that the single word thatwould describe what that emotion is about, and all they have to do isa match and sort and the accuracy raised about thirty five percent. This ismarket researchers who think about business dynamics, hopefully day in, day out ontheir job. At least thirty five percent. So there is a lot of,you know, head room that we can improve on to be better atthis. Yeah, let's let's spend a minute on Eq and then we'll maybeget into facial coding in business in particular. What have you seen over the years? I mean, obviously you're still to setting up this this you knowquiz is, which is essentially you're probably expecting the outcome that you're getting becauseyou've done it enough times. But you know, what's the state of affairs. In your view on emotional intelligence Eq in popular business culture? Well,I think it's certainly improved. When I came in in nineteen ninety eight,I mean I was an absolute pioneer in every sense the word, knowing it. Heard of facial coding outside of academia, that's for sure, and I wanteda tool that allow me to capture and quantify emotions that I knew howto bring science with it. So yes, Daniel Goleman it come out with hisbook on Emotional Intelligence and they was one thousand nine hundred and ninety fiveand that was a big best seller. But I think it got applied alot more in personal life that I got applied in business life. I havehad so many people come up to me in province say thank God someone israising these issues and also, probably quite honestly, they got us a guybecause it was a woman. In stereotypical business environments it might seem like it'stoo soft or fluffy or doesn't go to the bottom line, and I knewI had a hard case it. I had to have numbers, I hadto have science, I had to have a process. So I think it'smoving that direction. There are constantly articles out in the popular press talking aboutbreakthroughs and brain science and validating how much we're emotional decisionmakers. But you know, you had to keep pounding and pounding at it. They are just peoplewho don't want to go there. You know, just happens. Yeah,so let's get into a little bit of than of that harder science, thatthe facial coding, the analysis that data collection, in the analysis of thatdata. Talk a little bit about that process and then, to the degreeyou can for listeners, just, you...

...know, make it really practical forpeople that aren't necessarily going to undertake a something, some kind of a projectinside their organization. What are a few things they can take away from everythingyou've learned and taught around collecting the data and analyzing it? Okay, well, I'll see if I can take twenty years and put it into five sentences. Right, so what's five minutes? Yeah, that's fine. Let's startwith facial coding. I think a really fun way to introduce it is Mona. Lisa Leonardo Da Vinci was probably the world's first great facial coder. Hegot into studying anatomy. He wanted to know which facial muscles created which emotions, and so we talked about Mona Lisa's smile. The Mona Lisa actually alsoshows contempt and anger and disgust, to fear, all those sorts of thingsare going on for her. What Duvinji realize those that the twenty five squareinches that feature our eyes, nose and mouth is the richest visual territory onthe planet. The next person who brought US along, with Charles Darwin,essentially said to himself we must have emotions for a reason. They must giveus an adaptive advantage and they can, in business, help us, youknow, survive and thrive. The face is, as he validated, themost valuable way to understand what's happening for somebody else. It's the only placein the body where the muscles attach right to the skin. So it's quick, real time data. It's universal. Even in a person born blind emotesthe same way as you are I. So the underlying physiology is the same, even if, sometimes you know the degree of which the expressiveness happens canvary by cultures. You argue, Brazil and Japan are polar opposites. Oneis completely exuberant and one is much more subtle and finally, we have morefacial muscles than any other species on the planet. But in practical terms,there is a man named Paul Ectman that I learned facial coding from, andPaul spent about a decade plus systematically figuring out which muscles correspond to which emotions. So I gave you the seven emotions earlier and there are twenty three expressionsthat go to these emotions. Sometimes they go to a single emotion, sometimesthey go to two or three, for instance. So one thing that MonaLisa shows is her chin pulls up. It's kind of a Chin route riser. That is a sign of anger, sadness and disgusted. She also showscontempt. The core of the mouth lifts up in a way. It's aSMIRK. They give snidy whiplash, the old cartoon character. He was contemptpersonified. Her lower eyelid is taught and straight. That is a sign ofanger. And finally, yes, there's a smile, but it's a rathermuted smile and all these other emotions are going on in her face. That'swhy Mona Lisa so fascinating. She's unusually complex, but really, when youhave someone who's you're interacting with on behalf of your company, a customer.It may be Mona Lisa or maybe something simpler, but it is really helpfulto know what you're doing with so, for anyone listening, you know Iwe write these up and we share video clips at Bombombcom podcast. I'm goingto see if I can find a rights free image of Mona Lisa to embedin here or you know, you can obviously go out and search on itsown. I think everything we just heard, you're going to want to look atthat painting while you maybe bounce back with the thirty two, sixty twoback button and and and take a look at it. I know I'm goingto do that when we're done with this conversation. So universal and innate aretwo qualities of facial expression of emotion. We all do it approximately the sameway and we all do it intuitively from birth. We write these emotions toour faces and we can read them from other people's faces intuitively as part ofthe human experience. So for a leader or a frontline employee or for someonewho is engaging maybe as a customer, with with a company, with aperson at a company, what are a few tips? Like it can wecan we master or improve our ability to read these or be more sensitive tothem or manage the way we express these emotions, or are there maybe communicationchannel consequences if we're particularly angry or frustrator...

...or confused or that are their channelswe should or shouldn't use? Like make it one step more practical. Sure? Well, first all, you in my book famous faces to coded Iessentially offer up the secret sauce. For the longest time I kept it tomyself what Dr Ecumen and taught me, and he had a very complicated manual, five hundred pages plus, pretty academic in nature. I made a littlelot more fun. For it's all, it's shorter. Second of all,I use celebrity examples with arrows and circles so you can see the expression onthe faces of Rock Stars and Hollywood movie stars and famous politicians and so forth. So that, I think, hopefully makes it a lot more accessible interms of practicality. Yes, I do. Let's take it from different angles.If you are someone in senior management, you need to think about who you'rehiring. Even if you're a manager, you know, one step removed fromthe front lines. Southwest Airlines, of course, famously. Part ofhiring is what kind of rap can you give to the people on board theairplane? Are you amusing? Are you likable? Do you bring some energy? And that last point is pretty good, because your emotions turn on when somethingmatters to you. I mean there are all number of wives who complainthat talking to their husband is like talking to a brick wall. Well,you do not want that as a customer dealing with someone on the front lineseither. So your emotions turn on to give when something matters you. Motivationand emotion have the same root word in Latin to move, to make somethinghappen. So show your care, show you're going to get something done ontheir behalf. I would not want to hire the person with a totally flataffect that is essentially a cold fish. The other thing I think that's importantif you're one step removed from the front lines, is thinking about how you'regoing to build the experience for them. What's the emotional payoff? How areyou decreasing what I getting called the speed bumps, the negative emotions? Howyou taking that out of the equation? You should be really important to you. And then what's the feedback loop? You should have some way to actuallymeasure this. We all know the customers as faction surveys. People who arethe bomb throwers might fill it out because they really have a grievance, butthat might may not be a very accurate picture of how well you're doing.Or you may just get some fluff Nice, you know, assessments from people.They're you're really loyal customers, and that's great too. Maybe the twobalance out, maybe they don't. But you want to broader swath of itand I think you want to be more precise. When we use facial codingand business and I think my book will allow people to plug it in ontheir own. Is You want to actually monitor people in real time. Howdo they look when, let's just take a store window? Do they actuallyhave some surprise? You want curiosity to be rewarded. You want to spurcuriosity. If their eyes don't go wide, their eyebrows don't lift, that's probablya sign that they're not creating the curiosity. Surprise can be a wonderfulemotion. It's essentially something as unusual and I'm going to expand my field ofvision to take in more information. That's exactly what you want, because theinformation should include the products and service. You're just selling them. In theend of the process you would like a little bit of anticipation of happiness,hope after all. So those are the two things you want to create upfront, and then once you get them in the store. Let's just staywith that scenario. Then probably the first thing you want to do is avoidanger, because angers and emotion is I'm not making progress, I'm not incontrol of my circumstances, I'm not in control of my experience. So ifI'm seeing people with knitted eyebrows and they're lowering and they're puzzled, then maybemy signage is bad. Maybe I'm not directing them to the real wild momentsin my display. Maybe I have a person who comes up and gives agreeting that seems really phony and doesn't do anything for them. It doesn't actuallydirect them deeper into the store. So there you're trying to keep the happiness, the possibility of happiness, alive, but I think you're really trying totake away anger. Let's go even another...

...step. Now they're starting to lookat some things. I don't want them to be turned off. I wantto avoid disgust with disgust. For instance, the nose can wrinkle, the upperlip can flare. It's bad taste, bad smell, as if, almostphysically, you're trying to get away from something. Well, my God, in business you're trying to get them to hug something. You're trying toget them to embrace what you are selling. So discussed takes you in the completelywrong direction. Now let's take it one two, one two steps further, the next one. I'm at the counter. Finally, I'm going tobuy something. Let's not make the process too complicated. That's going to takeyou right back to anger. Let's not make it seem like there is areason for contempt, that there's something shifty going on here. That's you're playinglittle slights of hands. What would be a lot better relief. Relief MeansAh, I got surprised and I got happiness. Maybe it's a discount,maybe it's a bonus program maybe there's this or that that's going to make somethinghappen. And finally, Disney was so good at this. Disney wanted youto stand at x in the theme park and take a photograph of your experience, because when you got home you still have the experience and you can lookback at it, you can validate it, you could relive it and you coulduse it as a prompt to go back to this, to the themepark another time. How many companies do anything more than the obligatory email afterwards, you know, thank you for shopping, or give you a few pamphlets toput in your bag that you never look at again. So that canlead you to sadness. Sadness is a sense that you're alone and if you'renot careful, it could also be a sense that I made a mistake,I'm embarrassed because I made a bad purchase. What you want instead on the backsideis pride. I fought through, getting to the store, looking thingsover, making my decisions, and I'm happy and I'm also angry. Actuallyseems connintuitive, but I'm angry because I made progress. Anger can be apositive emotion to times that I got through the barriers, I made progress,I own the outcome. Think of Tiger Wood when he's at his prime.He had that fist pump, that huge fist pump, when he won thetournament. That's actually pride, but it's anger because I prevailed and it's happinessbecause I was successful. That's where you want to have people end really interesting. Still many things that that you that you got me thinking on. I'msure the same for listeners. First is the reminder that indifference and any lackof motivation, because I'm not feeling any emotion, I'm actually very indifferent,is probably the worst case scenario, because I would assume that if you cantake someone from a negative emotion to a positive emotion, that that positive emotionmight even be further heightened than the natural experience. It's not even it wouldn'tbe an ideal situation. You prefer that they land in some kind of happier, prideful situation just through the natural process. But I'm sure there is a recoveryopportunity and at least people care, at least they're invested in the experienceat some level. Even if it is negative, you maybe have a chanceto save it. You know, you're absolutely right. I mean, happinessis not a trivial emotion and there are a lot of ways you can getto happiness. One is security. You know I'm made the right choice.It's also a sense of belongingness, like this is the right store for me. I relate to the clerk. They understand me as a person. Ieven feel a sense of community based on the other shoppers in the store.Maybe another shopper helps you out and says, all, I bought this, oryou have just a display that's tips from other shoppers and you have theirphotograph and you have a little personal story about how they made this product partof their life, part of their habits through routine. There are lots ofways you can play this and you're absolutely right. Even if the product isnot superior in some cases or the design of the store, it could bethat the saving grace and the value problems Asian could be anchored in the person, the employee that you smartly hired who's warm and knowledgeable and engaged, caringand make things happen for you. So I love what you just said.That's perfect. Yeah, and what you...

...what you closed with there is thereminder that not just hiring and selecting well, which you already talked about, butalso making sure that people continue to employees continue to feel invested in,because they are the vessels through which I would I would assume that that youwould have something to offer on the contagiousness of emotions, the ability to transferemotions to other people through like a natural kind of contagion, I guess,is the word that's coming to mind. And making sure that your people care, so that they're motivated, so that they have some level of emotion thatthey can express and convey onto into other people. Yeah, you want asense of camaraderie. Yeah, I think in the best stores they feel likethey're in it together. They're not just played with. You know, MichaelJordan once said, after a while you don't want to play with rookies.If you are at a store where this constant turnover and you are actually theone knowledgeable person there, but you're constantly having to stop and tell us someonehow to run the cash ragers or how to do x, Y and Z, that's a drag and maybe you decide you're going to you're going to abandonhip and get out of there. So I think continuity of staff, thatthey feel comfortable, that they enjoy each other, that they're good fit foryour customers. In a lot of ways you shouldn't. You know as muchas you can just drag get. Somebody's going to mirror and reflect back whothose people are and can speak to their interests and taste to some degree.This think that makes the whole circle a tire more virtuous circle. I agree. So let's let's transfer this to a because it's the situation we're all innow, as we're all being forced to work from home. A lot ofbusinesses are doing, you know, curbside only or online shopping and delivery.Let's do the transfer now to video. So you know what what we do. Obviously, as we use zoom. We're using zoom right now to recordthis. I'm really glad we can see each other and we're not just doingaudio. I think it's really important to the way that we host these conversations. We use zoom for live video conversations, but you know, that requires thatwe're both available at the exact same time, or a whole our teams, you know, get together and these kinds of things. And then weuse bombomb. We make it easy to record and send short video messages.You can do longer ones if you want to. I always recommend that theybe only as long as they need to be so that you can do thisasynchronously as well that you know someone is communicating with you by so we didthis yesterday, by the way, you sent me an email. I senta video back. You had this in person moment with me and so obviouslyso much of what you've shared here already is transferable to a video environment,which is why the company was created, you know, more than a decadeago. Is because we knew intuitively, although not with the language and sciencethat you have, we just knew intuitively, are cofounders did, that that werebetter in person, that we connect and communic to keep more effectively throughvideo, and I think you probably have something to say about the science behindlive and recorded video communication when you can't be there in person. I certainlydo. I've done executive coaching. I've been on TV, you know,Good Morning America and the day show, and you know, actually you goback and you look at your video clips and so forth in the art book. Even more specifically, I looked at eighty eight famous paintings or artworks ingeneral, and I use both eye tracking and facial coding to know where peoplelooked and how they felt, but what they were taking in, and alot of the artworks involved faces, and it's really important because what I've discoveredboth from my twenty years of research and this art book is it held up. Seventy percent of our gaze activity and seventy percent of our emoting will goto the face. If there is a face president something, and obviously inthe videos, you're talking about the email videos, it's going to be aface. So that face is absolutely crucial to the successful delivery. But there'ssome guideline. For one thing, what's the size of the face? Tomy surprise, even though we talk about the close up and Hollywood, MrMill I'm ready for my closeup, the famous moment from Sunset Boulevard. Theface too large on the screen is actually off putting. It feels like it'syou know, I'm dealing with a jolly... giant instead of a human being. It's just too much. The face too distant on the screen, ofthe other hand, starts to take it away from me. I don't havethat human canvas, those twenty five square inches of valuable real estate that DaVinci realized. So a medium size face on the screen is great. Thenext thing is an expressive face. It was really striking when some of theseare self portraits by artists, sometimes their portraits of other people. But ifthe face was expressive, refe modestly expressive way better in terms of getting engagementand gaze activity than essentially a poker face. Part of that, though, isalso going to be what I call being on emotion. Do you createthe right emotions at the right time to match your content? You know I'llbe looking fearful, even though you're talking about how much confidence you have inyour product. And then it's the best one out there. The last oneis you might think, well, maybe I should put two people on thecamera. Probably not. Well, we found is the more faces you addinto the picture, and it's probably talks to your background as well. Themore complexity to the background, the more you're actually distracting. What I foundin my work as well and in advertising and all sorts of things where you'retrying to make that quick first impression, it's a lot like trying to landan airplane on the helicopter pad. The first few seconds are really important andkeeping it relatively simple thematically is important, because human beings are like housecats.We don't like to work that hard, so don't make them exert more thanthey have to and be warm. If you do those things, you gota chance. Yeah, I love it. I always make that recommendation. Sometimesthey do it a little bit tongue in cheek, but one of thethings I always say is, you know, if you're not sincere about your message, no matter what the message is, or if you're not since hear aboutthe value or opportunity that you're presenting through video, you probably shouldn't usevideo because people can detect that gap between, you know, what you're saying,the actual words you're saying and everything else, the way that you're sayingit, and we can just we can detect that discrepancy and I'm sure itprobably creates confusion at best and maybe distrust it worse. Yeah, well,I do a lot of work on political campaigns as a pund in for seeingin and New York Times and Fox and MSNBC and Reuters, and there's areally a pretty basic rule of thumb if you're a candidate in a debate oranyway what you're presenting yourself. First, are you likable? I mean you'renot going to buy from someone you don't like. It's just not going tohappen unless you really have to you have no other choices. Second, youknow what's in it for me. Of course, human beings are naturally selfishand self interested. So does the person on the screen of this case inthe video email? Do you have a sense that they understand me as aperson? They get who I am, and then implicit in that is ifthey're offering me something is can I trust them? Well, they actually followthrough on their promises, and so that's where that disconnect. That's where youknow talking points is fine, feeling points is better. Being on message isokay. Being on message and on emotion is far better. Then you're fightingwith two hands. Otherwise you got one hand behind your back and they're reallyimportant one. The knockout punch is emotions. The way the brain is oriented isit's sensory first of all, if you go back to evolution. Sowe take it all those usual signals we do. Then we attach emotional significanceto them and only then do we get around to a rational response. Butbasically the games already set from the sensory and the emotional reaction. The emotionalpart of the brain sends six times more data to the rational part of thebrain than the other way around. In other words, everybody feels before theythink. Everybody feels before they think. The value proposition is essentially emotional andthe rational part is a little cherry on top of the Sunday. That's allit is. In many cases, nice and I'm sure that's anchored in whatyou observed is that the brain just doesn't want to work very hard, andso it does what it's instinctual and natural. First and only, maybe out ofdeep, deep necessity, does it kick it up to the to theheavier weight rational, logical processing. Yeah,...

...we go with a gut instinct.It's quicker, it's easier and we're going to do a little validation.But even the rational stuff is all filtered through, you know, the whathappened emotionally first, and then it's validated emotionally, because we're going to choose, naturally, which details we hold on to and we're going to hold ontothe deal details we think have emotional significance. The either offer us a lot ofhope and opportunity, you know. You know, we want pleasure,pleasure principal. Freud was not entirely stupid. And secondly, we want to stayaway from danger, which is where Charles Darwin comes back into the picture. I want to stay alive. I don't want to buy bad things,stupid things. I don't want to make myself look like I'm the animal inthe herd that should be, you know, left for dead. This has beenso fun and interesting and I expect, if listeners are with us at thispoint, that they agree. If there's maybe one thing that you wouldlike to leave people with, with where? And I'm going again back to decadesof your work, you know, are there one or two things thatyou just wish? Gosh, if I could, if I could get morepeople to just flip the switch or know this thing or stay aware of this, we would be in a much better state of affairs or any like kindof high level takeaway for folks. Well, I think to stay with the faceand this valuable real estate. It's amazing to me from studies if youeven turn sideways, a little bit sideways in profile, if you're talking someoneof your clerk can still work as you can see about two thirds of theface, but more your face turns away from them, the less their brainactually fires. By time we see the back of the face, we hardlycare at all about the person. So if you're creating the video, that'syour great chance for facetime, facetoface, making the connection. Do not befaceless, you not be emotionally faceless. You have to come alive as aperson. They want to buy from a person. You are the embodiment ofthe company in that moment, just like Bill Clinton, who was really agreat retail politician, apparently makes everybody who's in a conversation with them feel likehe's there the only person in the world to Bill Clinton that moment. That'sa that's a great gift, fantastic square up to people, look them inthe eye, as much face as possible. Really, really good tips there.If you are listening and you've enjoyed this conversation with Dan Hill, Iknow that you will also enjoy episode fifty four with Vanessa Van Edwards of theScience of people. That one's titled Unlocking the Science of video and more recently, episode sixty three with David Merriman Scott, who wrote the book Fan Accracy,creating fans through human connection. We had a slightly similar aspect to ourconversation as we had here today, where we talked about physical proximity and soeverything Dan was offering here about. You know how large your head and shouldersshould be in the frame. Is related to some of the things that wetalked about with David and episode sixty three. So, Dan, I love toclose these conversations with a couple key things. One is your opportunity tothink or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career,and then also a company that you really respect for the way that they deliverfor you as a customer. Sure. Well, there's someone named Joe Richwho is instrumental in my company because he was such a minch. He wasso emotionally warm but also savvy. And I'll give you a quick story.So he's working for a major AD agency in La the person says to him, we hate everyone at the Ad Agency now, but we still like you, and Joe says, well, we're going to lose the account, right, and they said yes, is. So just do me a favor,let me know the day it's going to happen. So gets the following phonecall. The torpedo is in the water. Click, that's it and he knowsthis is a day. Unfortunately, they're going to lose the account.But Joe was just wonderful in helping me launch the company really a great resourcefor my book emotion omics. As to a company, I'm always amazed bytrader Joe's. They really do seem to have an aspree to core among theirworkers. When I started my company in San Diego, I used to pickup some items at times and relphs and then I'd also go to trader Joe'sfrom most of it. The difference between...

...the two was absolutely astonishing. Youknow, add ralls there was, everyone was kind of stollen, there wasvery little eye contact, no one wanted to help you. It just feltlike, you know, a morgue in many respects, specially emotionally, andyou go to trader Joe's and they're smiling, they're chatting among each other, theyringing the Little Bell that to tell you that someone needs help at acertain counter. My God, what a difference. Yeah, great recommendation there. I've read a number of really nice stories about them. I mean theway that they that the way that they hire and treat their employees. Ithink it's foundational to the experience you get as a customer there. There Ihaven't read like a formal case study on trader Joe's, but I've read anumber of, you know, business based articles about the way that they getthat done, and so really good call. I haven't heard that one at thispoint in a conversation yet on this show. So love that one andI agree. I was recently there. Of course they're there, I guess, rationing the number of people in the store in order to maintain physical distancebetween customers, you know, in this environment, and of course the shelveswere you know, people made a run on these stores, you know,when as this as a stayathome, orders and types of things came up,and so I saw this is free to core that you're describing between employees thatare just as fast as they can restocking shelves and, you know, restockingthe coolers and things with products, and I've had that experience, even underthis time of kind of uncertainty and stress. Yeah, no, it just itjust feels good. I feel happy coming into the store because they're,you know, they're not trying to fake it, but they're relatively happy,maybe not with a job every moment, but with the interactions with each otherand with the customers. I do a really good job of it. Yeah, it really matters and obviously you're as a customer there, you're making achoice based on the experience that they deliver for you. How do I feelwhen I've made the decision to come in and do my business here? So, Dan Again, I've greatly enjoy it. I really appreciate the work that you'vedone and if people want to follow up and learn more about you orthe books that you've written or your company, where some places that you might sendpeople? Sure? Well, first of all, I do have awebsite. Naturally, it's called Dan Hill dot sensory logiccom. From that theywill find the fact I have a blog called faces of the week that theycould sign up for or they can find it through emotions wizard. They willalso going to see will be up very shortly now. I'm going to havea little pop up thing they want to keep track of special events and retreatsI'm offering. Next year, after the inevitable recession passes, hopefully with thevirus, I'm going to launch some one day business retreats really around Eq themedand different directions. They'll be held in the palm springs are your where Ihave a winter home, so you can escape the winter blues, come downtake the one day seminar, go see Joshua Tree or some other things asa tourist and cow away, hopefully wiser, happier, wealthier, whatever. Reallygood, really good picture. I sounds like something I want to doright now. And you know, we're still here with the promise of spring, and I'd like to be in palm spring. So, Dan Again,I appreciate your time so much. Thank you so much for your insights andI hope you have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much, Ethan. It was a lot of fun. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video tothe messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a littleguidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videosaccelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at BombombcomBook. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to createand deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tacticsby subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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