The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

75. Emotional Intelligence and The Power of Faces w/ Dan Hill


The only two currencies in the world are dollars and emotions. Emotion is also an often overlooked component of customer experience. When it comes to human emotions, the face is the window to the soul, meaning that facial expressions — if you know how to read them — truly reveal what is happening on the emotional scale.


The insight that there are 7 emotions in terms of facial coding and that only one of them is truly positive will help companies shape the customer experience and the employee experience.


In this episode, I interview Dan Hill, President of Sensory Logic and author about all things EQ, to hear about how video can unlock human emotion.


What we talked about:


- 3 tips for framing your face properly in video


- One person on camera is better than two … or three … or more


- Our buying choices stem from desiring pleasure and avoiding danger


- The less you see of the face, the less your brain fires


Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:


- Emotionomics: Leveraging Emotions for Business Success


- Famous Faces Decoded: A Guidebook for Reading Others


- First Blush: People’s Intuitive Reactions To Famous Art


Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

We are going to remember the seriing emotional experience for a long time, and that plays right back to the value of what we bought and to the brand equity for the company. So experience equals emotions in my game. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte Hey. Unless your job is about to be automated, your success is state in your ability to build trust, rapport and relationships with other people, hiring, selling and negotiating, interacting with your boss, your team members and your customers, even connecting with your family members and friends. Today's guest is an expert on emotions and he can help us do all of these things more effectively. He's the founder and president of sensory logic, a company that's done market research for half of the world's top one hundred BAC companies. He pioneered the use of facial coding in business. More than twenty years ago. He's received seven US patents related to advanced methods to analyze facial coding data, and he's the author of several books, including emotion nomics, leveraging emotions for business success. First Blush, people's intuitive reactions to famous art and famous faces decoded, a guide book for reading others. Dan Hill, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Well, thank you so much, Ethan, for that very kind introduction. Sure, I just I really appreciate the body of work that you've generated over your career and I'm really excited for the conversation. It's obviously, you know, we're in this age where technology is so well advanced that we're really questioning in a variety of ways or a variety of conversations that are around. You know, what does it mean to be human, and certainly in the context of creating and delivering a customer experience, this is this kind of tech human divide or blend is, you know, forcing a lot of these conversations. You know emotions are really important. So dollars and emotions, those are the two currencies in the world. Good, I love it. Great precursor to the conversation before we get going on customer experience in particular. You're in the Minneapolis St Paul area. I'd love for you to share and work. We're recording this on Thursday April. Second, could you share what's the current state of affairs there regarding the coronavirus pandemic? How's it affecting you or your family, your team, your customers, just kind of what's going on where you are? Sure? Well, we have a pretty proactive governor. So we've gone into virtual lockdown mode and people are being asked to stay home. So we're a bit ahead of the curve on that. Fortunately, behind the curve we are not. In New York City. We have about five hundred cases so far, but they are wrapping up about every through three days. We double and probably the closest EPI center for us as Chicago and then Michigan beyond that. So obviously it's coming our way, but the expected peak is late May. Okay. Well, very best to you all, as we sure it's one of the more interest things that things happened in your lifetime. It certainly is for me. It certainly puts emotions front and the center for all of us, and I actually have both a sister in law and her daughter who are nurses on the front line in Chicago and DC respectively. So we are very concerned but also really proud of the efforts they're making. Yeah, I can imagine on both accounts they're so let's get into it, Dan, and again best to your family. It's a really appreciate what they're doing. When I say customer experience, what does that mean to you? What does it conjure? Well, it conjures that there are a lot of touch points and it you have to keep track of all the different angles, a bit like playing pool. You don't know how you're to get the ball into the pocket, but you got to try. You know, everyone has an experience interacting with the company. It can be good, it can be bad,... can be indifferent. Way Too often it's indifferent or even downright frustrating. I think the important that it gets left out of defining customer experience is that emotions are going to come with it and they don't just come with it. I think they're actually, in many ways the value proposition. We are going to remember the seering emotional experience for a long time and that plays right back to the value of what we bought and to the brand equity for the company. So experience equals emotions in my game. Really, really good call there. I do obviously hit several of the key themes that that I hear repeatedly in asking a variety of smart people that question, including yourself, and that's it's every touch point. It's happening whether you intend for it to be happening or not, you said, you know, positive, negative or indifferent. And then again, that emotional component leads us with kind of the thoughts and the feelings that become our online reviews, two stories we tell other people or to the indifferent, as if it just didn't even matter at all. You know, emotions are really contagious. They're contagious between the people you're interacting with and they're contagious in terms of what you're going to share with other people. To underestimate the power of emotions is basically to buy a ticket toward bankruptcy, of my opinion. Sure, so talk a little bit more about the emotional components of the customer experience or even the employee experience. You know, you're a tune to like a barometer of value. You already referred to that a little bit, but just kind of break that down a little bit more from a practical standpoint. Yeah, I think we gave even talk in terms of the evolution of customer experience, which I love, because you're now trying to look at the holistic picture and how you're going to design it, how you're going to measure it, implemented all of that. So it's a really a creative exercise and the nice thing is it's a lift up from what we used to have, which was simply there was a customer service department. What did that really do? That was the catch base and at the end of the process, and what it meant was I didn't get any customer service, I didn't get any customer satisfaction, and the entire emotional dynamic around that was essentially fear, because you had the poor person who probably wasn't really very empowered by the company, not so well paid, maybe a fairly recent higher within the company. They're just trying to learn all the processes and procedures and now they have this ballistic missile coming at them, which is the unhappy customer. Fear is not a lubricate for good communication. I mean, what do you do when you are fearful, you either fight, so now you're going to have a confrontation between the two parties. You're going to flee, so you basically try to avoid them, or you freeze, and freeze is really likely because you're stuck behind the desk or on the phone with somebody and they don't hear you, you don't hear them and nothing good happens. So it is so wonderful that the customer experience is trying to climb out of that, because it really needs to start early on and we need to bring some other emotions besides fear into the equation. Quite obviously. So in my terms and facial coding terms, there are seven emotions. They are the playbook. And there is happiness, which is the only truly positive emotion, and we can talk about variations of that like delight and Relief and pride and hope, but that's essentially your one positive emotion. There is a neutral emotion, surprise, because you can have a positive surprise, I got a new car for Christmas. You can have the negative surprise, I got a new car accident on the way home from war work. So that's your neutual emotion. That's going to go one direction or other and then we have to deal with anger and sadness and fear and disgust and content. I'm sure we'll get into those, but that's essentially the playbook. If you're really going to do customer experience well, you need to take an account where those done nevers going to play out. What could be the triggers? How do I get out of the when I call the speed bumps, the negative emotions, and how do I accentuate the positive really good? I am with you as a customer. Of course, we're all everyone that's on the show. Of course, as customers, were all customers in addition to trying to manage some aspect of a business and in...

...service of customers. I love that the competitive environment has really forced customer experience back up into the conversation and really forced a lot of companies to think a lot more about it. And you're absolutely right. So many unempowered people. I'm thinking now historically. Hopefully it's not happening too much anymore, although in canceling a bunch of travel here in first and second quarter, I certainly dealt with people who are not empowered to make decisions and to really serve the customer. And to your point, you know, it's just like any situation, fight or flight or freeze. And you know, I came in hot on a rat on a customer service rep on the phone the other day and she just immediately turned it around for me. So there are you know, there are a lot of people doing these things well. And so I and again, I think the the business environment, and on both the customer and the employee side, his force companies to be better about this and to probably start acting more in the service of their employees, not just their customers. Yeah, and you're dealing with a person. I mean this is all we can we talk about B to be and be deceived. It's be top it's business. Two people, you work with, people, you sell two people. When a if you go back to the traditional format of the customer service, they come with a story because really it's their personal worth that's on the line of this moment. They feel like they made a mistake, they bought something, they didn't get what they expected, the company is bigger than them and has their money. And Yeah, they want their money back or they want satisfaction, but they also want to be validated as a person, which involves actually listening to them. And if you truly listen to them, you're also going to take no account their emotions. So to me it's so important for people to lift their emotional IQ, their eq. I have sometimes a market research conferences put out the easiest test in the world. Seven emotions. I don't even give them like a fake eighth choice. Seven emotions and here's the essence, that the single word that would describe what that emotion is about, and all they have to do is a match and sort and the accuracy raised about thirty five percent. This is market researchers who think about business dynamics, hopefully day in, day out on their job. At least thirty five percent. So there is a lot of, you know, head room that we can improve on to be better at this. Yeah, let's let's spend a minute on Eq and then we'll maybe get into facial coding in business in particular. What have you seen over the years? I mean, obviously you're still to setting up this this you know quiz is, which is essentially you're probably expecting the outcome that you're getting because you've done it enough times. But you know, what's the state of affairs. In your view on emotional intelligence Eq in popular business culture? Well, I think it's certainly improved. When I came in in nineteen ninety eight, I mean I was an absolute pioneer in every sense the word, knowing it. Heard of facial coding outside of academia, that's for sure, and I wanted a tool that allow me to capture and quantify emotions that I knew how to bring science with it. So yes, Daniel Goleman it come out with his book on Emotional Intelligence and they was one thousand nine hundred and ninety five and that was a big best seller. But I think it got applied a lot more in personal life that I got applied in business life. I have had so many people come up to me in province say thank God someone is raising these issues and also, probably quite honestly, they got us a guy because it was a woman. In stereotypical business environments it might seem like it's too soft or fluffy or doesn't go to the bottom line, and I knew I had a hard case it. I had to have numbers, I had to have science, I had to have a process. So I think it's moving that direction. There are constantly articles out in the popular press talking about breakthroughs and brain science and validating how much we're emotional decisionmakers. But you know, you had to keep pounding and pounding at it. They are just people who don't want to go there. You know, just happens. Yeah, so let's get into a little bit of than of that harder science, that the facial coding, the analysis that data collection, in the analysis of that data. Talk a little bit about that process and then, to the degree you can for listeners, just, you...

...know, make it really practical for people that aren't necessarily going to undertake a something, some kind of a project inside their organization. What are a few things they can take away from everything you've learned and taught around collecting the data and analyzing it? Okay, well, I'll see if I can take twenty years and put it into five sentences. Right, so what's five minutes? Yeah, that's fine. Let's start with facial coding. I think a really fun way to introduce it is Mona. Lisa Leonardo Da Vinci was probably the world's first great facial coder. He got into studying anatomy. He wanted to know which facial muscles created which emotions, and so we talked about Mona Lisa's smile. The Mona Lisa actually also shows contempt and anger and disgust, to fear, all those sorts of things are going on for her. What Duvinji realize those that the twenty five square inches that feature our eyes, nose and mouth is the richest visual territory on the planet. The next person who brought US along, with Charles Darwin, essentially said to himself we must have emotions for a reason. They must give us an adaptive advantage and they can, in business, help us, you know, survive and thrive. The face is, as he validated, the most valuable way to understand what's happening for somebody else. It's the only place in the body where the muscles attach right to the skin. So it's quick, real time data. It's universal. Even in a person born blind emotes the same way as you are I. So the underlying physiology is the same, even if, sometimes you know the degree of which the expressiveness happens can vary by cultures. You argue, Brazil and Japan are polar opposites. One is completely exuberant and one is much more subtle and finally, we have more facial muscles than any other species on the planet. But in practical terms, there is a man named Paul Ectman that I learned facial coding from, and Paul spent about a decade plus systematically figuring out which muscles correspond to which emotions. So I gave you the seven emotions earlier and there are twenty three expressions that go to these emotions. Sometimes they go to a single emotion, sometimes they go to two or three, for instance. So one thing that Mona Lisa shows is her chin pulls up. It's kind of a Chin route riser. That is a sign of anger, sadness and disgusted. She also shows contempt. The core of the mouth lifts up in a way. It's a SMIRK. They give snidy whiplash, the old cartoon character. He was contempt personified. Her lower eyelid is taught and straight. That is a sign of anger. And finally, yes, there's a smile, but it's a rather muted smile and all these other emotions are going on in her face. That's why Mona Lisa so fascinating. She's unusually complex, but really, when you have someone who's you're interacting with on behalf of your company, a customer. It may be Mona Lisa or maybe something simpler, but it is really helpful to know what you're doing with so, for anyone listening, you know I we write these up and we share video clips at Bombombcom podcast. I'm going to see if I can find a rights free image of Mona Lisa to embed in here or you know, you can obviously go out and search on its own. I think everything we just heard, you're going to want to look at that painting while you maybe bounce back with the thirty two, sixty two back button and and and take a look at it. I know I'm going to do that when we're done with this conversation. So universal and innate are two qualities of facial expression of emotion. We all do it approximately the same way and we all do it intuitively from birth. We write these emotions to our faces and we can read them from other people's faces intuitively as part of the human experience. So for a leader or a frontline employee or for someone who is engaging maybe as a customer, with with a company, with a person at a company, what are a few tips? Like it can we can we master or improve our ability to read these or be more sensitive to them or manage the way we express these emotions, or are there maybe communication channel consequences if we're particularly angry or frustrator...

...or confused or that are their channels we should or shouldn't use? Like make it one step more practical. Sure? Well, first all, you in my book famous faces to coded I essentially offer up the secret sauce. For the longest time I kept it to myself what Dr Ecumen and taught me, and he had a very complicated manual, five hundred pages plus, pretty academic in nature. I made a little lot more fun. For it's all, it's shorter. Second of all, I use celebrity examples with arrows and circles so you can see the expression on the faces of Rock Stars and Hollywood movie stars and famous politicians and so forth. So that, I think, hopefully makes it a lot more accessible in terms of practicality. Yes, I do. Let's take it from different angles. If you are someone in senior management, you need to think about who you're hiring. Even if you're a manager, you know, one step removed from the front lines. Southwest Airlines, of course, famously. Part of hiring is what kind of rap can you give to the people on board the airplane? Are you amusing? Are you likable? Do you bring some energy? And that last point is pretty good, because your emotions turn on when something matters to you. I mean there are all number of wives who complain that talking to their husband is like talking to a brick wall. Well, you do not want that as a customer dealing with someone on the front lines either. So your emotions turn on to give when something matters you. Motivation and emotion have the same root word in Latin to move, to make something happen. So show your care, show you're going to get something done on their behalf. I would not want to hire the person with a totally flat affect that is essentially a cold fish. The other thing I think that's important if you're one step removed from the front lines, is thinking about how you're going to build the experience for them. What's the emotional payoff? How are you decreasing what I getting called the speed bumps, the negative emotions? How you taking that out of the equation? You should be really important to you. And then what's the feedback loop? You should have some way to actually measure this. We all know the customers as faction surveys. People who are the bomb throwers might fill it out because they really have a grievance, but that might may not be a very accurate picture of how well you're doing. Or you may just get some fluff Nice, you know, assessments from people. They're you're really loyal customers, and that's great too. Maybe the two balance out, maybe they don't. But you want to broader swath of it and I think you want to be more precise. When we use facial coding and business and I think my book will allow people to plug it in on their own. Is You want to actually monitor people in real time. How do they look when, let's just take a store window? Do they actually have some surprise? You want curiosity to be rewarded. You want to spur curiosity. If their eyes don't go wide, their eyebrows don't lift, that's probably a sign that they're not creating the curiosity. Surprise can be a wonderful emotion. It's essentially something as unusual and I'm going to expand my field of vision to take in more information. That's exactly what you want, because the information should include the products and service. You're just selling them. In the end of the process you would like a little bit of anticipation of happiness, hope after all. So those are the two things you want to create up front, and then once you get them in the store. Let's just stay with that scenario. Then probably the first thing you want to do is avoid anger, because angers and emotion is I'm not making progress, I'm not in control of my circumstances, I'm not in control of my experience. So if I'm seeing people with knitted eyebrows and they're lowering and they're puzzled, then maybe my signage is bad. Maybe I'm not directing them to the real wild moments in my display. Maybe I have a person who comes up and gives a greeting that seems really phony and doesn't do anything for them. It doesn't actually direct them deeper into the store. So there you're trying to keep the happiness, the possibility of happiness, alive, but I think you're really trying to take away anger. Let's go even another...

...step. Now they're starting to look at some things. I don't want them to be turned off. I want to avoid disgust with disgust. For instance, the nose can wrinkle, the upper lip can flare. It's bad taste, bad smell, as if, almost physically, you're trying to get away from something. Well, my God, in business you're trying to get them to hug something. You're trying to get them to embrace what you are selling. So discussed takes you in the completely wrong direction. Now let's take it one two, one two steps further, the next one. I'm at the counter. Finally, I'm going to buy something. Let's not make the process too complicated. That's going to take you right back to anger. Let's not make it seem like there is a reason for contempt, that there's something shifty going on here. That's you're playing little slights of hands. What would be a lot better relief. Relief Means Ah, I got surprised and I got happiness. Maybe it's a discount, maybe it's a bonus program maybe there's this or that that's going to make something happen. And finally, Disney was so good at this. Disney wanted you to stand at x in the theme park and take a photograph of your experience, because when you got home you still have the experience and you can look back at it, you can validate it, you could relive it and you could use it as a prompt to go back to this, to the theme park another time. How many companies do anything more than the obligatory email afterwards, you know, thank you for shopping, or give you a few pamphlets to put in your bag that you never look at again. So that can lead you to sadness. Sadness is a sense that you're alone and if you're not careful, it could also be a sense that I made a mistake, I'm embarrassed because I made a bad purchase. What you want instead on the backside is pride. I fought through, getting to the store, looking things over, making my decisions, and I'm happy and I'm also angry. Actually seems connintuitive, but I'm angry because I made progress. Anger can be a positive emotion to times that I got through the barriers, I made progress, I own the outcome. Think of Tiger Wood when he's at his prime. He had that fist pump, that huge fist pump, when he won the tournament. That's actually pride, but it's anger because I prevailed and it's happiness because I was successful. That's where you want to have people end really interesting. Still many things that that you that you got me thinking on. I'm sure the same for listeners. First is the reminder that indifference and any lack of motivation, because I'm not feeling any emotion, I'm actually very indifferent, is probably the worst case scenario, because I would assume that if you can take someone from a negative emotion to a positive emotion, that that positive emotion might even be further heightened than the natural experience. It's not even it wouldn't be an ideal situation. You prefer that they land in some kind of happier, prideful situation just through the natural process. But I'm sure there is a recovery opportunity and at least people care, at least they're invested in the experience at some level. Even if it is negative, you maybe have a chance to save it. You know, you're absolutely right. I mean, happiness is not a trivial emotion and there are a lot of ways you can get to happiness. One is security. You know I'm made the right choice. It's also a sense of belongingness, like this is the right store for me. I relate to the clerk. They understand me as a person. I even feel a sense of community based on the other shoppers in the store. Maybe another shopper helps you out and says, all, I bought this, or you have just a display that's tips from other shoppers and you have their photograph and you have a little personal story about how they made this product part of their life, part of their habits through routine. There are lots of ways you can play this and you're absolutely right. Even if the product is not superior in some cases or the design of the store, it could be that the saving grace and the value problems Asian could be anchored in the person, the employee that you smartly hired who's warm and knowledgeable and engaged, caring and make things happen for you. So I love what you just said. That's perfect. Yeah, and what you...

...what you closed with there is the reminder that not just hiring and selecting well, which you already talked about, but also making sure that people continue to employees continue to feel invested in, because they are the vessels through which I would I would assume that that you would have something to offer on the contagiousness of emotions, the ability to transfer emotions to other people through like a natural kind of contagion, I guess, is the word that's coming to mind. And making sure that your people care, so that they're motivated, so that they have some level of emotion that they can express and convey onto into other people. Yeah, you want a sense of camaraderie. Yeah, I think in the best stores they feel like they're in it together. They're not just played with. You know, Michael Jordan once said, after a while you don't want to play with rookies. If you are at a store where this constant turnover and you are actually the one knowledgeable person there, but you're constantly having to stop and tell us someone how to run the cash ragers or how to do x, Y and Z, that's a drag and maybe you decide you're going to you're going to abandon hip and get out of there. So I think continuity of staff, that they feel comfortable, that they enjoy each other, that they're good fit for your customers. In a lot of ways you shouldn't. You know as much as you can just drag get. Somebody's going to mirror and reflect back who those people are and can speak to their interests and taste to some degree. This think that makes the whole circle a tire more virtuous circle. I agree. So let's let's transfer this to a because it's the situation we're all in now, as we're all being forced to work from home. A lot of businesses are doing, you know, curbside only or online shopping and delivery. Let's do the transfer now to video. So you know what what we do. Obviously, as we use zoom. We're using zoom right now to record this. I'm really glad we can see each other and we're not just doing audio. I think it's really important to the way that we host these conversations. We use zoom for live video conversations, but you know, that requires that we're both available at the exact same time, or a whole our teams, you know, get together and these kinds of things. And then we use bombomb. We make it easy to record and send short video messages. You can do longer ones if you want to. I always recommend that they be only as long as they need to be so that you can do this asynchronously as well that you know someone is communicating with you by so we did this yesterday, by the way, you sent me an email. I sent a video back. You had this in person moment with me and so obviously so much of what you've shared here already is transferable to a video environment, which is why the company was created, you know, more than a decade ago. Is because we knew intuitively, although not with the language and science that you have, we just knew intuitively, are cofounders did, that that were better in person, that we connect and communic to keep more effectively through video, and I think you probably have something to say about the science behind live and recorded video communication when you can't be there in person. I certainly do. I've done executive coaching. I've been on TV, you know, Good Morning America and the day show, and you know, actually you go back and you look at your video clips and so forth in the art book. Even more specifically, I looked at eighty eight famous paintings or artworks in general, and I use both eye tracking and facial coding to know where people looked and how they felt, but what they were taking in, and a lot of the artworks involved faces, and it's really important because what I've discovered both from my twenty years of research and this art book is it held up. Seventy percent of our gaze activity and seventy percent of our emoting will go to the face. If there is a face president something, and obviously in the videos, you're talking about the email videos, it's going to be a face. So that face is absolutely crucial to the successful delivery. But there's some guideline. For one thing, what's the size of the face? To my surprise, even though we talk about the close up and Hollywood, Mr Mill I'm ready for my closeup, the famous moment from Sunset Boulevard. The face too large on the screen is actually off putting. It feels like it's you know, I'm dealing with a jolly... giant instead of a human being. It's just too much. The face too distant on the screen, of the other hand, starts to take it away from me. I don't have that human canvas, those twenty five square inches of valuable real estate that Da Vinci realized. So a medium size face on the screen is great. The next thing is an expressive face. It was really striking when some of these are self portraits by artists, sometimes their portraits of other people. But if the face was expressive, refe modestly expressive way better in terms of getting engagement and gaze activity than essentially a poker face. Part of that, though, is also going to be what I call being on emotion. Do you create the right emotions at the right time to match your content? You know I'll be looking fearful, even though you're talking about how much confidence you have in your product. And then it's the best one out there. The last one is you might think, well, maybe I should put two people on the camera. Probably not. Well, we found is the more faces you add into the picture, and it's probably talks to your background as well. The more complexity to the background, the more you're actually distracting. What I found in my work as well and in advertising and all sorts of things where you're trying to make that quick first impression, it's a lot like trying to land an airplane on the helicopter pad. The first few seconds are really important and keeping it relatively simple thematically is important, because human beings are like housecats. We don't like to work that hard, so don't make them exert more than they have to and be warm. If you do those things, you got a chance. Yeah, I love it. I always make that recommendation. Sometimes they do it a little bit tongue in cheek, but one of the things I always say is, you know, if you're not sincere about your message, no matter what the message is, or if you're not since hear about the value or opportunity that you're presenting through video, you probably shouldn't use video because people can detect that gap between, you know, what you're saying, the actual words you're saying and everything else, the way that you're saying it, and we can just we can detect that discrepancy and I'm sure it probably creates confusion at best and maybe distrust it worse. Yeah, well, I do a lot of work on political campaigns as a pund in for seeing in and New York Times and Fox and MSNBC and Reuters, and there's a really a pretty basic rule of thumb if you're a candidate in a debate or anyway what you're presenting yourself. First, are you likable? I mean you're not going to buy from someone you don't like. It's just not going to happen unless you really have to you have no other choices. Second, you know what's in it for me. Of course, human beings are naturally selfish and self interested. So does the person on the screen of this case in the video email? Do you have a sense that they understand me as a person? They get who I am, and then implicit in that is if they're offering me something is can I trust them? Well, they actually follow through on their promises, and so that's where that disconnect. That's where you know talking points is fine, feeling points is better. Being on message is okay. Being on message and on emotion is far better. Then you're fighting with two hands. Otherwise you got one hand behind your back and they're really important one. The knockout punch is emotions. The way the brain is oriented is it's sensory first of all, if you go back to evolution. So we take it all those usual signals we do. Then we attach emotional significance to them and only then do we get around to a rational response. But basically the games already set from the sensory and the emotional reaction. The emotional part of the brain sends six times more data to the rational part of the brain than the other way around. In other words, everybody feels before they think. Everybody feels before they think. The value proposition is essentially emotional and the rational part is a little cherry on top of the Sunday. That's all it is. In many cases, nice and I'm sure that's anchored in what you observed is that the brain just doesn't want to work very hard, and so it does what it's instinctual and natural. First and only, maybe out of deep, deep necessity, does it kick it up to the to the heavier weight rational, logical processing. Yeah,...

...we go with a gut instinct. It's quicker, it's easier and we're going to do a little validation. But even the rational stuff is all filtered through, you know, the what happened emotionally first, and then it's validated emotionally, because we're going to choose, naturally, which details we hold on to and we're going to hold onto the deal details we think have emotional significance. The either offer us a lot of hope and opportunity, you know. You know, we want pleasure, pleasure principal. Freud was not entirely stupid. And secondly, we want to stay away from danger, which is where Charles Darwin comes back into the picture. I want to stay alive. I don't want to buy bad things, stupid things. I don't want to make myself look like I'm the animal in the herd that should be, you know, left for dead. This has been so fun and interesting and I expect, if listeners are with us at this point, that they agree. If there's maybe one thing that you would like to leave people with, with where? And I'm going again back to decades of your work, you know, are there one or two things that you just wish? Gosh, if I could, if I could get more people to just flip the switch or know this thing or stay aware of this, we would be in a much better state of affairs or any like kind of high level takeaway for folks. Well, I think to stay with the face and this valuable real estate. It's amazing to me from studies if you even turn sideways, a little bit sideways in profile, if you're talking someone of your clerk can still work as you can see about two thirds of the face, but more your face turns away from them, the less their brain actually fires. By time we see the back of the face, we hardly care at all about the person. So if you're creating the video, that's your great chance for facetime, facetoface, making the connection. Do not be faceless, you not be emotionally faceless. You have to come alive as a person. They want to buy from a person. You are the embodiment of the company in that moment, just like Bill Clinton, who was really a great retail politician, apparently makes everybody who's in a conversation with them feel like he's there the only person in the world to Bill Clinton that moment. That's a that's a great gift, fantastic square up to people, look them in the eye, as much face as possible. Really, really good tips there. If you are listening and you've enjoyed this conversation with Dan Hill, I know that you will also enjoy episode fifty four with Vanessa Van Edwards of the Science of people. That one's titled Unlocking the Science of video and more recently, episode sixty three with David Merriman Scott, who wrote the book Fan Accracy, creating fans through human connection. We had a slightly similar aspect to our conversation as we had here today, where we talked about physical proximity and so everything Dan was offering here about. You know how large your head and shoulders should be in the frame. Is related to some of the things that we talked about with David and episode sixty three. So, Dan, I love to close these conversations with a couple key things. One is your opportunity to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career, and then also a company that you really respect for the way that they deliver for you as a customer. Sure. Well, there's someone named Joe Rich who is instrumental in my company because he was such a minch. He was so emotionally warm but also savvy. And I'll give you a quick story. So he's working for a major AD agency in La the person says to him, we hate everyone at the Ad Agency now, but we still like you, and Joe says, well, we're going to lose the account, right, and they said yes, is. So just do me a favor, let me know the day it's going to happen. So gets the following phone call. The torpedo is in the water. Click, that's it and he knows this is a day. Unfortunately, they're going to lose the account. But Joe was just wonderful in helping me launch the company really a great resource for my book emotion omics. As to a company, I'm always amazed by trader Joe's. They really do seem to have an aspree to core among their workers. When I started my company in San Diego, I used to pick up some items at times and relphs and then I'd also go to trader Joe's from most of it. The difference between...

...the two was absolutely astonishing. You know, add ralls there was, everyone was kind of stollen, there was very little eye contact, no one wanted to help you. It just felt like, you know, a morgue in many respects, specially emotionally, and you go to trader Joe's and they're smiling, they're chatting among each other, they ringing the Little Bell that to tell you that someone needs help at a certain counter. My God, what a difference. Yeah, great recommendation there. I've read a number of really nice stories about them. I mean the way that they that the way that they hire and treat their employees. I think it's foundational to the experience you get as a customer there. There I haven't read like a formal case study on trader Joe's, but I've read a number of, you know, business based articles about the way that they get that done, and so really good call. I haven't heard that one at this point in a conversation yet on this show. So love that one and I agree. I was recently there. Of course they're there, I guess, rationing the number of people in the store in order to maintain physical distance between customers, you know, in this environment, and of course the shelves were you know, people made a run on these stores, you know, when as this as a stayathome, orders and types of things came up, and so I saw this is free to core that you're describing between employees that are just as fast as they can restocking shelves and, you know, restocking the coolers and things with products, and I've had that experience, even under this time of kind of uncertainty and stress. Yeah, no, it just it just feels good. I feel happy coming into the store because they're, you know, they're not trying to fake it, but they're relatively happy, maybe not with a job every moment, but with the interactions with each other and with the customers. I do a really good job of it. Yeah, it really matters and obviously you're as a customer there, you're making a choice based on the experience that they deliver for you. How do I feel when I've made the decision to come in and do my business here? So, Dan Again, I've greatly enjoy it. I really appreciate the work that you've done and if people want to follow up and learn more about you or the books that you've written or your company, where some places that you might send people? Sure? Well, first of all, I do have a website. Naturally, it's called Dan Hill dot sensory logiccom. From that they will find the fact I have a blog called faces of the week that they could sign up for or they can find it through emotions wizard. They will also going to see will be up very shortly now. I'm going to have a little pop up thing they want to keep track of special events and retreats I'm offering. Next year, after the inevitable recession passes, hopefully with the virus, I'm going to launch some one day business retreats really around Eq themed and different directions. They'll be held in the palm springs are your where I have a winter home, so you can escape the winter blues, come down take the one day seminar, go see Joshua Tree or some other things as a tourist and cow away, hopefully wiser, happier, wealthier, whatever. Really good, really good picture. I sounds like something I want to do right now. And you know, we're still here with the promise of spring, and I'd like to be in palm spring. So, Dan Again, I appreciate your time so much. Thank you so much for your insights and I hope you have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much, Ethan. It was a lot of fun. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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