The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

79. A 4-Part Framework for a Frictionless Experience w/ Anthony Coundouris


Customer experience shouldn’t be an afterthought. Unless you’ve intentionally built it into your organization’s core, you probably aren’t offering an especially frictionless customer experience.

Wait, what’s so bad about friction?


In this episode, I interview Anthony Coundouris, the founder of run_frictionless and author of run_frictionless, about removing friction by aligning 4 quadrants in your business.


What we talked about:


- How to reduce friction by designing to and operating from the four quadrants


- Why you should ignore your competitors and focus on customer expiry


- How to attract and hire people based on shared beliefs


- Why 70% of buying decisions are based out of Q3 (Who We Are) and how to insulate yourself by inspiring irrational buying forces


- How to uncover wild inconsistencies between what sales leaders think they’re selling and what’s actually for sale


Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

The full cues framework is. Itis a decision making prime work and and a sense. What I what Isort of realized, was that siles is not the responsibility of the seals before. It's an organizational goal. The single most important thing you can do todayis to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceedcustomer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast.Here's your host, Ethan Beute. Friction is a customer experience killer.So today we're talking about how to run frictionless with the gentleman who wrote thebook on it. Really, it's called run friction less and it offers asmart, systematic approach to creating in keeping customers. Our guests brings a decadeof experience consulting technology and SASS companies, with an emphasis on early stages anda focus on automated sales and marketing systems that produce predictable revenue. He's thefounder of two companies, including one called run friction less. Anthony candurast,welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thanks very much a having me here.Yeah, I'm excited for the conversation. I really enjoyed the read and I'mlooking forward to getting into the for quadrants. So the conversation is going to bekind of organized the way that you organize the book, which I'm sureis the way you organize some of your consulting engagements. But before we getgoing, you're from Australia and you've worked extensively in Southeast Asia. Where areyou right now and what's the coronavirus situation for you? And I was workingon some projects in Vietnam when the bad news was announced and we evacuated immediatelyand hit a small little town in Thailand and the south near the border ofon Malaysia, and that's where I'm hold up at the moment. I'm livingin a very rural existence and the water I'm drinking today is from a welland the food I ate this evening was from our garden. Wow, whatan interesting situation. Are you there? What's the setup for you? Well, we just didn't think we could trust the Vietnamese government to tell us thetruth about what was happening with the virus. As soon as it was announced,we left and we headed back to my ladies hometown. It's a placecall yeah, I she decides to, no one knows it. It's nota tourist destination and that's why we haven't had a single case of the coronavirus. But we're, like you were, lockdown. No one's allowed to goto the office, has coffee. Shops are all closed, tunes are closed. It's it's bordered home. Right. Yeah. Well, I appreciate makingtime for me and I'm glad you found a nice, quiet, safe spotand it's probably a really ill my assumption and hope for you is that youlook back several years from now and be appreciative for this unique experience. Yeah, I think one of the things that a lot of my friends have commentedon is how much quality times is giving with their families. Perhaps sets doingthe same from a to eight. And Yeah, good for you. Solet's get started properly. I always like to start with your thoughts around customerexperience. When I say customer experience, what does that mean to you,Anthony? Why? Used to think that customer experience was something that was verydivorced from sales, that it was a something that was tacked on to theend, like you said, of build a business and then every one says, oh my God, we need a customer experience right, yes, thegoing to sort of add it, right, all we go to now, goodup, so glad we have that comed. And I used to thinklike that, like so many people, and then what we begetting to realizeour research team was there is a strong correlation between sales and particular wherever youand customer experience. That is, the more improvement you can make in theway that you deliver a service or a product or a customer, the morelikely lay out of by product. And...

...hence the reason why I can improvesales. Awesome, I agree. It is obviously not attack on. Itneeds to be designed from step one and it's an integrated thing and frankly,that's why we're doing the show, is to figure out how to make surewe can connect leadership and strategy and decisionmaking at a high level with sales,marketing, CS and all of the other teams and functions that are responsible forcreating and delivering the experience, because the experience starts sometimes before you even havea customer, and so, as does your book so talk before we getinto it. When did you decide to organize your thoughts into run frictionless andhow did that go for you? What was the writing process like? Iwas it was horrendous because I had no production methodology because I'm the first timeauthor. I've never written a book before, and so I just I told myselfat I can do this in six months, and now it took longer. So I had to go through a process of hacking my work methodology andreverse engineering from the way that I would build a sales process for a companyinto something that was digestible in a hundred and fifty pages, and that's wherethe for Q was born. The fulk you didn't exist before that. Ijust did it unconsciously, you know, but I found it so difficult toexplain it to people until I sat down and said, okay, I'm goingto put pain the paper. How do I explain this in a rational waythat makes sense? Excellent. Good thinking is good writing and good writing isgood thinking. So I'm glad you went through the process. I found ithighly digestible. Before we dive into each of them, can you just giveus an overview of the four quadrants? And I'll just read them off reallyquickly. Q one is who we serve, Q two is what we serve,q three is who we are and q four is how we serve.Can you just give it an overview of those and kind of how they relateto one another? Yeah, sure. Even so, the for queues frameworkis it is a decision making framework and and a sense, what I whatI sort of realize was is that sales is not the responsibility of a salespeople. It's an organizational goal and what you quickly find is but the for quesis that it recognizes and pulls together the entire organization to get behind the salespeople, so the salespeople become just the tip of the iceberg. If I wasjust to give you a quick overview or say what each of those quadrants are, quadrant one, who we serve. He really focuses on customer profiles.Quadron to, what we serve is what you're serving to quadrant one, thattends to be a product or of service in most situations. And quadrant three, which is which is who we are, is really ubiquitous, unlike say,quadrant one and quadrant two, where you can get a fit between quadrantone and quadrant two. quadrant three is about our beliefs and the corporate identity, and it works across all of the three quadrants. And the last one, of course, is probably one of your favorites, quadrant for which ishow we serve, which focuses on a precisely one of the interactions required tocreate a customer. So let's get a little bit into queue one. Whowe serve? Again, it's it's the customer, it's persona, it's theICP quadrant. Maybe provide one or two takeaways for people here. Yeah,sure, you know, one of the most interesting things about quadrant one ishow so few organizations, when I walk into talk to them about what itis that they who they serve, they essentially just give me a very genericexplanation. We just serve enterprize or we serve small business owners. I've evenheard CEO say to me we just serve anyone, anyone who buys. Okay, right, and I laughed because in the back of my mind is I'venever met this person. Call anyone.

Right, I've met Tom and Sallyand Harry, but I've never met this person. Call Anyway. It's justit's awesome person who just buys everything since yet or this person who introduces herselffor himself as the enterprise. It's like there's such a decision maker. Oneof the things that I think a lot of organizations can do is spend alot more time, first of all, just trying to analyze and think aboutwho they are serving and not just talking about age and demographics and all thatsort of stuff, but looking more at really discernible, significant data points likeperhaps their maturity or their sophistication, and looking at asymmetrical ways of measuring thatthat maybe they competitors are using. It's really interesting. I one of thethings I really enjoy read about q one was the discipline of it. I'mgoing to read you one of your quote from from your own chapter and maybegive me a response to it, and I've got one of these free tothe quadrants. By the way, the customer profile is a mutual understanding betweenthe sales force and customer service about who is allowed to become a customer.Yeah, because you know, when you're scaling up and you're trying to freeyourself of the sales role as a founder, if you start paying sales commissions toany profile that a salesperson brings you? Well, of course that's exactly whatthey'll do. They'll bring you anybody. And I started to see like insome organizations where with certain customers we would succeed, like we'd have successfor, say, transaction plast sixty days and then many other profiles in whichcase the success rate was very, very low. What you start to figureout is, is that really the product? Yes, technically could serve a lotof profiles, but really you know that there's only one or two thatperhaps it's really optimized for to work well. You know, like one of thequestions I always ask the salespeople is the sales managers is that look,if you serve this profile, whoever it might be, will you get apositive review? Doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to write something positive, butthey might say something positive. And if you know in your heart that they'renot going to give you a positive review, for goodness sakes, don't serve them. Right, just because you can close it doesn't mean that you should. Because, to your point here, if you can't see retention, potentiallyexpansion, positive reviews, positive word of mouth, referrals, etc. You'reprobably doing a disservice to both you and to the customer. Yeah, becauseyou know there's someone out there right now who really needs your services. Andif you're squandering your time serving customers who are never going to give you apositive review, who are going to hassle you for refunds, who are goingto give you the wrong intelligence to drive quadron to, why are you doingthis when there's customers right now who really need your organization and need yourself sayingthey're the ones you have to focus on. Yeah, so who we serve obviouslycritically matters. Let's move to quadrant to, and that is the whatwe serve, the product in the future quadrant. Obviously this one's closely relatedto q one, but maybe share a couple big ideas in the second quadrant. Yeah, one of the big takeaways I've had in quadrant too, iswhen I talk to CEOS and sales leaders in organizations, one of the thingsI ask them is what are you selling? What do you serve the quadrant one, and what I mean by that is, could you describe the featuresand the benefits? It's all write this down and then what I'll then dois is perhaps to a friction test where I'll interrogate the online chat the telephonypeople, the people who answer their email, and then I'll compare the results ofwhat people are selling and telling me. And inevitably what we find is reallyinconsistent and wild differences day to day and from organization to organization about whatwe sell, even though I'm told nine...

...times out of ten we know exactlywhat we're selling, we know what the product is. Yeah, so thatdisconnect is obviously highly, highly problematic. One of my favorite things in thissection was, you know especially, I think this is super relevant to software. I think most people can relate to it, but I'm sure it relatesto variety of other businesses as well. But I'll quote you and then kindof talk about some of the problems that fall out of it, and Ilove your like what drove you to include this, and it is to avoidfuture cell because it introduces friction, it leads customer expectations. You wind upcreating bespoke software people that can now defer the buying decision because you're promising somethingthat's going to be built and delivered in the future. It makes the saleconditional in a way, like I'll buy it if it were when and itundervalues what you currently offered. It undervalues what you serve today. Yeah,because so often the reason that that the organization contacted you to stop the conversationby actually forget the benefits. And now and then the stiles team actually goingback and reiterating those really important features, which I gin the product right now, that it reinforcing those and reminding the organization. This is why you shouldbuy us. They will essentially open up their their order book and start totake down and the what needs to be in the products of the customers.Like, let's build this in real time together, you know, like manufacturingcompanies got this right such a long time ago. Like they stamp everything.They talk about the limitations of their products every time that they send out information. They shift things with to explaining to you not just what it does,but they say with with unequivocably what it doesn't do, which is part ofthe education to the customer. And coming back to what you're saying before aboutfuture cell the I'm sure you've seen it yourself either and you've done consulting before. It's where, if you're in the early stages of a startup, it'snot so bad because the consequences are very low. But imagine for a moment. You're now. You're now scale up, adding shareholders, customers, staff.People keep hearing and mixing sales messages with the vision of the company,as opposed what's coming in a couple of months, pretty soon. Now everybodybelieves what's in the future is what's selling right now, and that's when thisproblems of these conditional moving targets begin, where custom says, hang on amoment. You promised that it would be there. It's not. I'm notgoing to buy it. Go and build it future. Stuff can happen becauseof a variety of problems. One of the worst, though, is whenit's kind of meet up. I'm the spot and we're to it in orderto address a sale that's like imminent right. That may or may not be theright person and it's definitely not the product that you that you have today. Is that you're you're promising on the spot something just to kind of keepthe conversation going. Yeah, I mean legitimately, though, you know whatthe discipline I try to introduce an organizations. It's Ay, look, product peopleare the only ones who allowed to write those products at shades and inthe marketing, in the sales people could then draw on that and the roadmap, which details what's coming in, you know, future quarters by sightof the organization. It should be absolutely locked away and not talked about,because the problem is is that we suffer a bias where you might just heararound the water cooler a feature which is being released. The sales people,who ever is listening to that, will interpret that as being in the inthe present tense, not in the future, and we'll go out and sell itin the present tense. Yeah, and to your point two, andthen we'll then we'll move on. But to your point, you know,it undervalues what you have today. It's so interesting, like we're so likeI've been at I've been at bomb bomb for over eight and a half years, and so like I'm deep in and it's easy to take for granted someof the most basic features, benefits,...

...opportunities, use cases that people aregetting massive, massive value out of, and and you just stay focused onwhat's new, what's hot, what's fun to talk about, what's this thisthing we've been thinking about our planning for months or four years and now it'sfinally about to come to pass, and so there's this constant future orientation andundervaluing, even internally, of how you can benefit people. Yeah, youknow, good point. It's up to it's really a discipline, you know, if anything. But the one of the things I talked about in thebook is just sell what's in the way house, you know, and Itry to bring it back to the way manufacturing company site. They're really brutal, you know, like they like, listen, man, it's in blackand it's in red. You want it or not? Right. You knowthat sons of this wish people selling software would be as brutal, and actuallythey probably would get the order just by being so confident. I thought youwere to say black or white, but black and red. So put thepoints the same. It's like this is what we have. Would you liketo diet? Awesome. So I you know, I like q three andque for actually, I like all of that. I like the framework.That's why we're having this conversation. But q three in particular is really reallyinteresting. It's who we are, kind of the the brand quadrant, andso share a little bit. Share maybe the top two or three things thatyou really find to be problematic or exciting or interesting as you're consulting people aroundthe themes in who we are. So I think that a lot of organizationstoday to realize that customers birationally from quadrant one out of quadron two, hencea quadrant one quadron to of fit. So they, you know, they'lllook at the features, the look at the limitations, they think about theworkarounds and they compare different vendors and they try to come to a rational decision. Right now, he's really interesting play, though. quardant three is about whowe are. Particular, one of the levels that it operates on isaround this idea of beliefs which is based on cultural identity. So I'll teamget a lot of understanding about cultural identification and the way in which we operateas tribes in the sense of belonging them. Yet right he's something interesting. Someof the research that we've done suggested seventy percent of buying decisions is notout of quadrant too, but out of quadrant three. So quite three,you know, if you struck a quadrant one, quadrant three fit. Ifyou hear this from a customer, I've been telling people this four years.Finally, somebody has built the product that I've been talking about. Thank youso much for listening to me. So seventy percent of buying decisions are madeout of quadrant three, which is this idea of shared beliefs. I'm goingto read one of my favorite sections in the book. Sharing beliefs sets inmotion a set of irrational buying forces that are near impossible for a competitor tomimic. The irrational buying force is so strong that even when sales, productand operations people are screwing up, customers keep buying because they believe in therand. I love this idea to two ideas in particular, and they're obviouslyin a related this shared belief, like the way we see the world asa team and as a company is the same way that our customers see theworld potentially, and so this is this kind of shared belief in this identitypiece. And then this irrational buying force, which is what I think you weretalking about in that setup, which is it's not a que one ora que to decision, it's not this rational decision, but there are irrationalbuying forces that I think speaks to I guess, at a high level kindof the dual theory of the mind, the idea that we make our decisionsemotionally and then we back up, we back ourselves up rationally, and sotalk a little bit about this, this interplay of irrational buying forces and sharedbeliefs and maybe even, you know, to that second line of that Iquoted there, the grace that we're given... our customers even when we're screwingup, because they believe yeah, okay, thanks Ethan. You know, quadronsone and two are not very defensible. Like I've had arguments and CEOS aboutif IQ's. You know, they don't want to put up Faqu's becausethey know that competitors are reverse engineer back out of a fake us in termsand conditions, to figure out even how the product was built. We knowQuadun two is not defensible, and yet so much emphasis is put on product, like when people are talking about I want to increase my price, that'ssay, just add more features. Right. Of course it's not the case becausethe customer doesn't know the product is any better because they haven't bought theproduct yet. And what retailers taught us a long time ago. They said, look, all you need to do is this emphasize a little bit morearound your packaging, which happened to be a buying queue to quadrant too.So quadrant three is a buying q to the quality that's coming in quadrant toand is concept of share beliefs. It's rather interesting. We saw a reallyrecent example. Do you remember the lawn to the test lack truck? Yeah, what happened during the product lawn tray rate the the shattered window right alongshadows the window. So you could say well, and in fact the automotivejournalist did. They said, hey, bad product, a you know,bad quadron to day. You know, this is an example of one ofthese startups bad products. You know, we really shouldn't be listening to them. Yet despite that, at the close of business the following day, TeslaPost a press release saying the receipt over a hundred thousand orders of the truck, and I just watch this video and saying this is going to be nota demonstration of a bad product they but what it means to have a sharedbelieve with a customer. They weren't buying at a quadrant to that completely forgavehim a like. You know what, man, we get all that like, because every every company has a bad product. The difference is, willthey crucify you or they forgive you? It speaks again to that irrationality.And I also like the you started with something that, I add, overlookedor failed to mension, which is this. This is the defensible part of thebusiness. Let's not underestimate how hard it is to achieve a belief.Look Ethan, you and I can have a belief that no one else sharesand we call crazy people and they lock us up right, we're delivered tothe asylum and then that's where we stay there. But there are other peoplewho resonate right and become leaders and then, because people are listening to them,a game. And I get this. I know what you're saying. Ifeel the same way about this. I'm going to I'm going to join. We're going to have a quadrant, one, quardran three fit here.And if you can get that kind of fit going in your organization, it'sso difficult to mimic because it's inside out. You see, you have to hidethe same people who believe in the same thing, because otherwise, assoon as the customer pierces your your organization and gets past the marketing VENEA anddig into Your Business. They're going to find those people who don't believe andthen they're going to get you even. They're going to say, hang on, you sold me on a belief and you're the only guy in the companythat believes and the rest of you don't. And I feel really deceived in thesand or scary or potentially harmful. Aspect of that is that you mightnot even see that consciously. As a customer, you just feel this disconnectorand you feel this distrust and you can't necessarily articulate it, but you're like, this isn't what I thought this was. These people aren't who I thought theywere, this isn't what I was expecting or hoping for. And youmight not and see those things consciously. You just kind of like you knowfrom the company perspective, you know, you swape the credit card once andthen you just kind of disappear. Yeah, because it's not from quadron to theycan't put their finger on the consert. It was a feature or you liedabout a limitation and it's really hot. You quite right. You probably wouldn'teven see it. In an effect like a feedback form somebody replying backabout they just wouldn't know how to articulate this, but boy do they feelit in their heart rate. And it's...

...and again this is this is thedark side of the irrational buying force. This is the this is the irrationalquitting force or similar whatever. It's the flip side of that. So tofour is how we serve. It's the it's really is the customer experience quadrants. So what are a couple things folks should take away from how we serve? First of all, let's make sure we do we have a definitive numberof interactions that are required to create a customer. So our research showed usthat if you're serving small business owners, you're talking between sort of ten tofifteen interactions and if you're serving decision makers, enter price companies, you supporting twentyfive up words of say fifteen interactions. And now what you can really startto do when you do a quadrant one, quadren four fit because youcan start to really look at the cost of service. You can say,well, it's a fifty dollar interaction to twenty five years interaction. Start addingthem up and you start to see really what it costs to serve that customer. So that's, I think, probably one takeaway. But Ethan, he'sanother one. That kind of data point that I think that a lot ofthe readers are listeners today, perhaps not tracking in quadrant one that they oughtto be in. I think we probably come to it at a moment.That's that one called customer expiry. It's a really interesting data play and letme explain how we came about it, how it's how we fumbled upon it. So it happened in two thousand and fifteen, where were asked by aCEO of assass start up to find out why is it that our prospects arewalking away from our pipeline to our competitors? So what we looked at? Itwas looked at about six months worth of data and we got our researchteam to call these individuals to say okay, what what happened during the prospecting stage? He's interesting figure. Fifty percent of them didn't buy anything, andyet we confirmed that they are legitimate buyers by checking their profile on Linkedin.We got back to the sea and I said, well, I don't knowif it's a competitive problem because fifty percent did nothing. But even boy andhe said, well, could you go and find out why? And wedid, and so we probe deeper. It's some telephony survey. Turns outthese customers actually think the whole industry suck. I think that's so much friction inorder for them to make a buying decisions they would rather suck eggs,continue using excel and never hear about these organizations again. And we were ableto figure out a number just by the questions that we asked them. Andit turns out that this group had a signed, consciously unconsciously, between fourteento eighteen days in which they had to make a buying decision in their organization. So when we went back to the sea, we said, well,do you know when you decide to readesign quadron for actually, don't need toworry about your competitors. Just focus on one data point called customer expiring.For Goodness Sakes, to develop a customer experience that could be delivered in fourteendays and you'll probably make a lot of money. Interesting, so talk,just go a little bit more at this fourteen to eighteen days. What needsto happen in that window? Okay, so the number really will change from, you know, like whoever's listening to sure podcast. Right, it's goingto be different. We're seeing buying decisions happenings as short of seven minutes allthe way to six months, right, and it just happens to be that, example, is fourteen days. That is the early, the middle andthe end. Game All has to be closed out. that it doesn't meanrushing or forcing or ramming the customer, but those set of interactions, asfifteen interactions or as twenty five interactions, all still need to be legitimately deliveredwithin fourteen to fifteen or eighteen days. So that means you need to startgetting pretty creative about how you serve those interactions. What will be automated,what will be human? What are going to be the different objectives, becauseyou better make sure that every interaction actually does something, because there's no there'sno time for wasted. You're having a...

...little conversation on the side of theright. It's a little bit talk show. We about about your dog and justcatch up on that. No, no, it's no time for that, because they've got fourteen days and they're going to run away. They're notgoing to buy from anybody. Essentially, the clock is running. Yeah,it's a race, as you put it to me earlier. Yeah, itreally is. It really is a race. It's the best way to think aboutit. Well, that's that's one of the that's the quote that Ipulled out of queue four, which is think about achieving the customers goal asa race. And the reason I like that so much is that it speaksto a theme that I've been thinking about and talking about and hearing more likethe more you pay attention to something more the more often you see it,and it's this idea of owning the customers outcome, not just as like adesired outcome delivered via an appropriate experience, but really owning the customers metrics asif they're your own and really becoming a partner in their success. And then, of course, there's the race component on top of that. You know, like and do it within the expiry window. Yeah, I remember talkingto a bunch of payments companies in Southeast Asia and they thought the customers goal, customers outcome, was to pass the Ky salver verification process and open upaccount to do a cross board of payment. After we got through talking to them, customers did actually, we don't care about that. We want tomake a transfer today. That's my goal. So if I say that by I'vegot fourteen days to make buying this Uson right. It's not necessary tothe goal that you think. It could be something way more elaborate or theoutcome could be a different kind of metric than we first thought it was.Yeah, it's not the acquisition of the productor of the service itself and thetransaction. It's obviously, I mean that's just a that is one of yournecessary checkpoints on the route to whatever sought the customers goal. Yeah, anyother high level observations here about the quadrants? Obviously you it sounds like you developthem as a consequence of organizing some of your your thoughts in your experiencefor the benefit of again, we should have mentioned the subtitles that it's freeinga founder from a sales role. But you also did a nice job inthe book of speaking to early stage and, you know, more developed businesses atthe end of each chapter with the important takeaways. Is there anything wedidn't cover here that that you find is either very interesting or provocative or relevantor necessary for the types of companies that you're working with? When I wrotethe full cues. One of my supposed criticisms of the frameworks is how stupidthey make. The the radar, they they they elect project management tools,you know, assists do it. The results. Oh Wow, you know, that's a framework. Okay, yeah, well, that's true. That's quitetoo simplistic, you know, and it doesn't allow any creativity. Sothe full cues is a rather different for instance, than week. Could startin quadrant too, to retot produce friction as opposed to moving. Don't haveto move sequentially from one, two, three or four. A lot ofpeople starting three, you know, like around beliefs, you know. Sofirst of all there's no starting position, and the thing that also like aboutit is it's a little bit like a woodworking project. Now, let's justsay we're building a table together. Well, to get the various components to fit, sometimes you need to shave off a little bit here and saw abit more of that place, in the sense you're getting a fit and agentonwould called, you know, he sort of use this world product market fit. You can use the quadrants the same way. For example, we talkedabout quadrant three, quadun forfeit. So you do result. You developed thebelief then you wrap those words and pictures from quadron through around each of thoseinteractions which you design and Quadrat for. But he's another interest in play.What about a quadrant one, two four fit? So a lot of timessalespeople don't know what to sell next. So I think one of the playsof quadrant for is to intelligently sell the next product from quadrant to to theright person in quadrant one. Hence the...

...quadrant one, quadrant two, fourfit. You could try and get a fit of one, two four bysaying, well, we can design, you know, individual very unique customerexperiences for each of our profiles and quadrum one. A lot of us aredoing that. Now we're realizing that you can't have generic experiences and quadrant foranymore. But also we can start to intelligently sell product on Quadron to byplaying the same theory really good. So do you, when you engage witha company, do you tend to lead with this book so that you havethe same language to start with, or do you does it kind of comearound? Yeah, it's interesting. A lot of the feedback that I've beengiven by the users, the readers of the book is it creates, ifanything, it creates a common vocabulary where it doesn't really matter whether you're theproduct guy, product goal, the CEO or somebody who's delivering the CX inquadrant for it's really easy for guys and girls to get together and make adecision. So I like to not make the book a barrier. I don'twant to introduce friction into my own seals process. So what I do isis I give them like a one hour quick overview, teach them that thepower of the forcus and just get them using the vocabulary. And it seemslike they start using it in their organizations, like the line managers, and prettysoon the people within the various functions of the Group start using the samewords, which makes it easier than to make the changes that we need tolater. Yeah, really good. So if you are listening to this episodeand you've enjoyed it a of course, I recommend run frictionless from Anthony.It's a really good read and I'll also recommend to other episodes of this show, episode twenty five with Brian Gilman, who is the vice president of solutionsmarketing at Van Edge. That episode is called it why friction is a customerexperience killer. And it's a lot about solutions marketing. And then episode sixwith my longtime friend, team member coauthor on Rehumanize Your Business, and heis the CMO at bomb bomb. That episode is with Steve Passinelli and wetitled it connecting with customers by exploring a shared belief. We had a sharedbelief conversation back on episode six and I think this is going to be episodeseventy something. I forget where we are, but yeah, it's really good.So on. This is an awesome anthony. I really appreciate it.Before I let you go, though, I always like to give you thechance to think or mention someone who has had a positive impact on your lifeor on your career. Yeah, I'd say Andy Walsh, that he wasthe form of creative director that wonderment in Sydney, and he was. He'sone of these beautiful managers where, even under the stress of a corporate environment, it's still a really human experience working with him and we're delivering like reallybig goals but he's not making a big fuss about it. He was ahe's from the United Kingdom. He's a very gifted cready director and when Iwas an upcoming art director. I'd see with him at seven I am inthe morning, getting him a coffee, myself a coffee, open up atlaptops and start work together. It was just fascinating listening to him talk andhelp us to put together the next piece of work that we'd be doing fora telco or something. So good. What a great story. And now, how about a company that you really respect for the way that they deliverfor you as a customer? Lego beautiful, most definitely, I think Lego.They just do you understand product O glimentation without being ridiculous, you know, like they've. They've got such a good hold on the firm group,on quadrant too, and the white permeates the whole business. It's beautiful thattheir product. I mean even as a young boy using their product before Ireally understood anything about quality, it felt like quality when I used to sitdown and play with other kids. You know, we get around and shareour Lego sets, and then it was all about the creativity, what youcould do with them. It was I...

...really feel like as an adult it'ssomehow had a really positive impact on me to youngster leading into my adult life. I think it's done something really good for me their products. Yeah,I completely agree in just to the to the quality piece of it. Ihad a similar experience in my brother and I have a brother WHO's two yearsolder than me. We had a lot of legos, in a lot ofLego sets, but eventually what wound up happening was that they all wound upin one box and so the sets kind of like, you know, havesome outer space stuff with like some you know, trees and and other things, all in one big box and the state of my parents home. Andwhen my wife and I had our son, I got them back out and Ijust went through all of it again and all of the products are stillperfectly intact. They don't break and and and they all work with all ofmy my son's new sets of so, of course one of the ways thatthey've gone to market is, you know, they've done licensing deals with a bunchof, you know, really popular brands and things, and so Ithink my son had some star wars stuff, some Harry Potter stuff, Lego sets, but they all still work, like you can still start the constructionof something new. You know that that doesn't exist in a you know,in a step by step guide on how to build it and all the piecesall work together and they're they're still a wonderful quality. This has been sofun, Anthony. I really appreciate it. I really like the work that youdo in the way you approach it. I'm glad that you went through theexperience of writing in order to a organize these thoughts but then be allowedthem to be easily shared with people. I assume if someone's listening at thispoint they've enjoyed our conversation and may want to follow up with you. Wherewould you send people if they wanted to learn more about you, the workthat you do, about run frictionless as a consultancy or run frictionless as abook? Yeah, I think probably you are well. Run Friction Mostcom,just one word. That's an easy place. So just check me up on Linkedinif you want to post a link there to my Lincoln Account. Ofthey just want to connect with me and start a Carlog. It would gretto share some ID's and some stories. Toge though, super I will dofor folks listening. I do put up right ups of these video clips,if fully embedded audio and more at Bombombcom podcast. That's Bombombcom podcast, andso if you want to connect with Anthony on Linkedin, or if you wantto check out the book, or you want to check out the website,all that will be linked up there at bombombcom slash podcast. Anthony. Thankyou again so much and thank you for listening. Thanks very much, Ethan, for your time and, beside being so patient with me to organize oursession together, I have thoroughly enjoy this Evan Show, very prepared host.I really enjoy the session. Thank you, fellow sure, thank you, andI'm glad again you found a really beautiful and safe spot for this timeperiod. Like I must take care of I'll say in touch with you.Thank you very much. Sounds good. But by clear communication, Human Connection, higher conversion, these are just some of the benefits of adding video tothe messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a littleguidance. So pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videosaccelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at BombombcomBook. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create anddeliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tacticsby subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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