The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

85. How To Successfully Pivot To A Virtual Event w/ Corey McCarthy


64% of all event planners have never done a virtual or hybrid event before. About 60% of attendees have never been to a virtual or hybrid event. Those numbers are from just a few weeks ago.


How can we know what makes a great virtual event so that we can host one?


In this episode, I interview Corey McCarthy, the CMO at Socio, about how to host great virtual events.


What we talked about:


- What it took Socio to pivot itself and its clients to virtual and hybrid events


- The characteristics of a great virtual event (including why you need an emcee)


- Marketing insights for rethinking the customer journey during a pandemic


- Creating communities, even virtual ones, increases brand loyalty and creates evangelists


Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:




- Corey on LinkedIn


- Steve Axel on LinkedIn


- Who Gives a Crap 

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

Having empathy for the market that you're going after and really being able to dive into and try to really understand what their true needs are and what they're going after. I think makes you more of an authentic marketer. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. So many individuals, teams and organizations have to pivot at one time or another. Sometimes it's by choice or opportunity, other times by force or circumstance. For example, in reaction to a global health pandemic, today's guest is rethinking the entire customer journey in the face of the coronavirus pandemic. As her team helps companies shift from physical events to virtual events and get as close to live as a virtual event can. She founded her own strategic marketing firm serving clients in software, hospitality, financial services and other verticals. She's held several sales and marketing leadership rolls over the past decade. Today, she serves as chief marketing officer for socio, a team dedicated to creating the best event technology for their clients while providing them with world class support. Their clients include brands like Google and Microsoft, Pinterest and Pepsico, Harvard and Hundai, just a name a few. Corey McCarthy, welcome to the customer experience podcast. We then. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. And before we get going, in earnest and I think the the pandemic is going to be a theme here because it's so critical. It's driven pivots at socio and, of course, for all of your clients, as we have to go virtual from physical. But just give me a quick drive by. Set The scenior in San Francisco. The rest of the team is in Indianapolis. What's the situation regarding the pandemic for you? How's it affecting you, your team members, your customers? Just give me a quick drive by on that. Yeah, absolutely. I was hired as a remote Sammo, so my life, other than it's awkward going to the grocery store, hasn't changed much. For the team that I'm leading remotely. I don't get to get there in person. I only started in January and so I had two touch points with them before we went into the pandemic. Luckily, it's a tight knit group that is really bonded and solidified our, you know, working relationship over the last couple of months and so, having worked from home for most of my career, I was able to help pivot the team and help them kind of get up and running a little bit more quickly than usual into that new cadence of working from home. From Company and our customers perspective, we were always set up to do virtual however, most of a business was coming from live events, and so we have a couple of ICPS that we're working with, association's major event organizers, enterprize and tech companies,...

...and it's been very interesting because you can take those two segments and divided into two, one half whose revenue completely relies on producing live events and the others that do events is part of the marketing initiative. So when you drop into the associations and the event organizers, they're really struggling right now, especially the associations, because they've never had to think outside the box in quite this way, and so it's really interesting is we're finding that it's not necessarily a pivot from virtual events, from live events to virtual events. It's actually a pivot from events to marketing, because any virtual event is marketing. And what a lot of the Association of managers don't understand is that the opportunity to reach far outside your existing account base or you're existing membership base is there and there's a really great opportunity to grow and to accelerate the association's mission. And they're not understanding that yet because they've never had to think like marketers. They think like event planners, which is very detail oriented, very process oriented, and so we're asking them in this moment to use an entirely new skill set that either they haven't used in a long time or we never asked to. So my team and I've been doing a lot of education around that to make them feel more comfortable with that pivot. Really good. I'm so excited for the rest of the conversation now. I mean, you know I've been asking that question a lot, but just to get to know people and situations and markets and customers differently from different seats in organizations and from different industries and things. This one obviously lends itself to a lot of the conversation with that divide there between primary and, you know, support. You know, what is the role of the event for these people? So, so interesting and you really teat up an interesting conversation around transitioning from just being a service provider, we provide an APP, we provide tools to you, to being a true partner and how do we make sure that you stay successful? So I don't want to get too far ahead, so we'll start where we always start here, which is customer experience. When I say that, Corey, what is customer experience mean to you? Customer experience means, from the very first time you see or meet a brand, how you feel about it and how you continue to feel about it after you interact with all of the multiple touchpoints that that brand has to offer, and at the end of that journey, are you willing to recommend that brand to your friends and to your family? And so I guess the idea of customer experience is, you know, results in that end goal of the NPSCORE. You captured there. What I did an entire ten minute episode code of this podcast. I do some shorter episodes where I just kind of share some of my own thoughts and experiences, typically based on what I learned from from smart and kind folks like you who spend time with me on the podcast. And it's this. It starts with the feeling and then... becomes thoughts and then it becomes stories, in the stories or what we tell and online reviews. It's what we give an MPs feedback, it's what we provide in terms of word of mouth. I'm right there with you on that whole definition. Thank you for that. So before we go farther, for folks who aren't familiar, we've already kind of previewed a little bit. But for folks who aren't familiar, tell me a little bit about socio, like who is your ideal customer? You kind of define two large groups and then what do you solve for them? Sure, so to is an event platform that works with a number of different companies, anything from an enterprise organization all the way down through the associations, and we work with anyone who is looking to pull together and events. Used to be a lot of five events, of course, but we're really taking a holistic look at how events fit into the greater martech space. Historically, events have represented about twenty percent of all marketing budgets and it is the most difficult to provide our Li stats to feed back into your CEO about and to justify. However, the brand awareness and everything else that goes along with it is extraordinary, which is why marketers continue to do it. So our goal with our event platform is to make sure to capture enough attendee data and allow organizers the tools that they need to communicate with their attention in these and give that really great attendee experience. So when you're talking about customer experience and push that into an event, what does that look like? What does it feel like? So it's been a lot of fun over the last couple of weeks here because we have been doing pivots not only with our clients but also with our technology as well, and going back into the idea that we're no longer working with just events. This is marketing, you know, oneonone that we're working with here. A lot of people spend so much time bringing everybody together into an event and once you get them into your APP, what you've already done is you've created a community, and so now we get an opportunity to interact with that community or the people in the community, not just during the event but three hundred and sixty five days a year. And so, while we can't meet with each other facetoface and getting together for an extended period of time online doesn't make a loft sense, bringing together that community holistically allows brands and marketers to engage very continually over a longer stretch of time through that APP or that platform, which has been really exciting for us to stretch our legs and get into. So good, really, really interesting. This idea that the APP isn't just for those gifts. Back in the day, three days that I was physically on site, maybe today, the day and a half that I spent, you know, on zoom or in some other platform. So folks were continuing to use the APP over a period of times of place to essentially host a community get together perpetually and probably provide content and create some engaging pieces, polls and surveys and things. Absolutely, and what's really great is it's a mix of our ABM targets, our prospects and our existing clients, and so it's really cool about that is our existing clients really love the socio brand and getting them in there...

...and having conversations. They do such a great job making recommendations and giving ideas to nonsensiate clients that they accidentally sell the platform for us, which makes it feel a lot better all the way around. And when you're talking about customer experience, it's a lot more authentic in that community environment, as long as it's curated properly. I've had to fight to keep my sales guys out of it just so that they don't kind of taint that good feeling. Yeah, that's awesome. There's so many conversations to have off this. I'm really excited to get at it, I guess. Let's start with the pivot that you had to make in your team. Had to make a CMO and a marketing team. Obviously. Okay, are at a minimum. Our message has to change. You already talked about making some changes to the tech and continue to probably lean into the virtual event even more. I would assume that you were probably doing supporting some virtual events already, but talk about start with talking about the pivot that you and your team had to make in terms of you know when I show up on your home page, for example, how does it communicate to me today? Or you know what I did this a couple days ago and anticipation of our conversation, it was very obviously all about virtual events. Talk about that process, like when did you realize it was all happening, and you know what was that process like for you all to make that pivot? Yeah, it happened for us very early on. I've been in the event space for quite a while and having produced enough events, I know that getting attendees to come to your event is a really finicky thing. When I was flying from San Francisco to Indianapolis in early February, the pandemic was already here and everyone was already aware of it. So it's very interesting being in the airport at that particular time because you could see already a couple of people wearing face masks and people kind of looking at each other strangely. So it was in that moment that I realize that, oh crap, this is going to impact attendance, because if I'm thinking about it and I'm a little concerned about it, so are a lot of other people, and potentially more so than me. So when I got into Indianapolis, I called my team together. I'd only been there a month and I'm like, Hey, this could be a real problem for our company if people stop going to events the you know, that's revenue for US gone. So we need to start writing, you know, we need to start, you know, adjusting all of our content and writing about hybrid events. And I was even questioning the name hybrid events and like did I just make that up, you know, or is that a thing? And so it's actually a thing. But at first that's what we were talking about and so we started pivoting and my team looked at me like I was absolutely crazy. But now this is something that all of it planners are going to have on the radar and start to worry about. So as soon as we got content out there, that's when the CDC I really started shutting down live events and my team started to look at me with a new round since perspective. So we started we started that pivot very early on and we ended up going back and continually updating and changing a lot...

...of the content that we got out there with, because early on it was yeah, you know, throw some hand sanitizer around, everybody it'd be fine. You know, just be careful and maybe do a hyperd event just in case, you know. So after everybody went into lockdown, and actually a little bit before that, we went through everything and we toned down any sales pitch. We actually we completely removed all of the sales pitches. We went into complete education mode and went back and revised anything that was written a day or a couple of weeks before to take out any of the stuff that just sounded dumb, you know, given you know, at that point the daily, you know circumstances that were being unfolded and unbailed to all of us. So that had a major impact with how we move forward and then obviously trickled down into our website. We're a little hesitant to make too many changes on our website just because of SEO. We would we weren't sure at that time how far the pandemic was going to go, with sort of impact it was going to make, and rather than make me jerk reaction, we did a lot of really great contents on the blog and took it a little bit more slowly with the website. The other thing that we needed to do is while all of this was happening. I was going through and figuring out, oh my God, from a product marketing perspective, where do we fit? Why do you absolutely need to have an event APP? And so it was really great experience to go through because I was able to figure out that, with all of the technology that comes into a virtual event, you need one thing to string it all together, and that event APP actually did become the event because that's actually where all of the sponsorship opportunities lie and a number of other things. So going through that, we're able to make a lot of light tweaks and product to make the virtual version better. But now I've got a product release that I needed to do, and how the hell do you do a product release in the middle of a demo where you can't tell anything? So We'd already been leaning in pretty hard to the thought leadership fate of marketing and really taking on that consultative approach to working with our existing clients and prospects to try to give them ideas about how they could make that pivot themselves. So instead of doing a product launch, I hosted hackathon where we reached out to sixteen different industry evangelists and influencers who all had, you know, very great followings on twitter and invited them to see hack in four teams of for so we got them all together. It was an hour and a half event. They all talked about it, they all came up with some really great ways to, you know, think about virtual events, and so we're serious a company. We are doing a lot of things right. But Somehow we got about twenty five hundred. Actually, no, I think that the end number was more around threezero registrations for the stupid Hackaon and it was a stupid it was so much fun. People are still talking about it because we were able to, as an event company, really make that leap, figure out engagement, figure out networking and come up with something that was unique and truly a wonderful experience, not just for our clients but for the influencers and a lot of other people in the industry as well. So we've been able to...

...find great ways to not only pivot, but do it well and have a lot of fun and inspire a lot of event planners who have been struggling along the way really good, so many, so many fun places to pick up, their first one being your you're the trust that you built with your team by being visionary. This is going to affect us really yes, it is. We go. So I'm clear. When you created the Hackathon, it was let's get creative about how we can make this even more useful and friendly to a virtual situation. Yeah, my CEO has endless ideas and he's constantly coming to me. Hey Cory, what with this? Hey Korry, what about that? And one of the ideas that he wanted me to do was true hackathon. It didn't feel right to get tech involved yet because nobody knows exactly where to go and I think that there was at that particular times to a lot of wayfinding happening and people wanted to be a little bit more Cathartic and talk. So I had been part of the company with a headquarters in Switzerland and a home base in the United States that was just sales marketing, and so our participation in hackathons were just ideation sessions, and so I took that ideation session idea and put that into the event space, because these event planners are incredibly creative, very charismatic and have a lot to say, and so getting them together to discuss and define different solutions to take and make that pivot from live events to virtual events really hit the mark and, you know, we got a lot of really great takeaways, you know, from a platform perspective, different ideas and different things that we can add into the platform. But more importantly, we were able to get everybody talking and figuring out how to save their own businesses, because it really is an ecosystem that is dependent on one another. Yeah, which kind of tease up where I wanted to go next. WAS ANY UNIE've already alluded to it several times. It's the pivot that your customers have had to make, and let's just separate them into the two customers. And I guess I'll add one more kind of common question before I let you go on. Just some basic tips on assisting them through the pivot. I guarantee there are people listening right now that are either their companies doing their planning an event or they're not sure if they're going to do an event, and so you know how we've aided some of these other companies make the transition, whether they're all events all the time or whether events are just part of what they do for sales and marketing. A hybrid event is just the common question I wanted to make. First, hybrid event is maybe where we are doing a live event but we're also, for for a much lower cost, probably doing a stream for hundreds or thousands of people back at their offices that didn't want to make the journey to Las Vegas or wherever? Is that true? And then also then just go on some of the some of the education that you're providing to help people make the transition to a virtual event. Absolutely, and as far as hybrid events, I think that that is our future for the next couple of years, maybe more, because...

...typical event planners were their KPI was the number of people that were attending a live event and so they didn't want to do a virtual event and a live event because they would cannibalize their live events. Kepis now, after having the experience of doing virtual event and understanding the greater impact and greater level of awareness and participation that you can get from the greater community, I think that from a business model, I think it elevates any event business model. It's inclusive and it makes just more sense, I think, to carry into the future, and so I think that in the future what we might see, especially this year. If any events happen this year and into next year, you'll see smaller, more regional events happen with a larger extended audience online, and so I think that that's something that will carry through indefinitely, to be honest with you, just because it's of its level of inclusivity and from an exposure stampoint for sponsors and the brand that's putting it on. There's a lot of value there and so I don't see that stopping anytime soon. Yeah, I don't either. So let's start with companies. That this was a kind of a sales and marketing thing for folks who are hosting events, whether it's their one big annual event or whether it's, you know, the quarterly events or maybe a road show or something. What are a couple points of transition for those folks who they can be successful continuing to use an event experience to generate community, generate opportunity, generate evangelists, etc. Yeah, What's interesting is the thing that not a lot of event planners are talking about right now and for you know, company like Bombama would be you know, you field marketing team. Hypothetically that would be pulling it together. It's still all about the strategy. So what are your goals? What are you looking to achieve from hosting this event? Is a greater engagement? IS IT education? And after you have down those goals that you want to accomplish nailed down, then it gets into more of the tactical execution. You know of it and how are you going to make that work in a virtual setting and what tools do you need to pull that together? So I would start with the strategy and keep you eyes first and then reverse engineer down from there, because whatever technology it is, from streaming to an event APP their containers, and so it relies on the creativity and the ingenuity of the marketing team or the event planners to put all of the right pieces together and then find the right technology to deliver it in a really consistent, great way to the attendees in order to achieve the goals. Great. And Flip now to those folks who are probably even a more challenging situation. They probably weren't doing anything or weren't doing as much hybrid as perhaps these other folks were. What have you been maybe guiding them through? We actually started up an entire services department, so we going to... a follow up question. So good. We've taken a very consultative approach and so we've been on the phone with all of our clients, in fact the entire executive team for the first two weeks, that on, three to five calls a day, listening to what our clients for going through some of the pain points and the decision points that they're having to make. And so event and be held a Webinar a few weeks ago and sixty four percent of all event planners had never done a virtual or hybrid event before, and so that would be roughly sixty percent of our audience that had never done this. And you know the it's a tech company. Everyone's young and capable. So what we've done is we've taken some of our service team and transition them into what we call our orange glove service, and so we literally do every thing. We sit there with the clients during their strategy sessions and translate that for them with how to accomplish it, whether it's recommending and helping them get their streaming service set up, helping them get their ap put together, registration and all of the moving pieces. It's one of those things that we have been inherently sitting there with them for so I love the name Orange Glove Service. That obviously connotes exactly what you want it to, but it's unique to socio excisome. Orange is of primary color. Talk about that pivot, you know, taking resources that were deployed one way and assigning them, in probably a very quick order, to the most acute or pressing me that some of your most valuable customers were facing. Absolutely, services was a revenue model that we were exploring before covid and after covid. You know, as a series of company we had a lot of different financial decisions to make when it comes to burn, cash flow so on. It's a company with a lot of heart. The last thing that we would want to do is do any furloughs or lay anybody off, and so we've taken great care to make sure that we are finding ways to generate enough revenue to keep everybody going, including keeping the, you know, event industry alive and taking care of our own people at the same time. So by infusing services as an offering, not only are we able to provide an even better customer experience but, you know, on a little bit more of a holistic side, we're able to take care of the loyal employees that we have to well, which is awesome. So we pivoted, I think about for people over to the service positions. Odd It's honestly still evolving. I think that we've been selling it for the last three or four weeks. So it's been great because our average contract value has gone up pretty significantly and we, I have an amazing CSM and service team anyway that have won multiple awards and get rave reviews for clients. So it it just made a lot of sense and it was a little bit earlier than we what we wanted to do, but I think that with the pandemic we're all finding that it's the great accelerator. Anything that we wanted to do anyways happening and happening much faster than any of us had planned for. Yeah, so true. I'll bet you know, let's just pretend the pandemic never happened. You probably would have spawn on this idea of services for some time and gathered more information and kicked it around, and let's backburner that conversation in this meeting...

...because we're running out of time. And to your point, like boom, here it is we have to do something and you're probably that the just a learning cycle alone is dramatically accelerated by that as well. Really Smart. Just quick, quick take on this one. What do you think are some of the characteristics of a great fully virtual event? I've been on a number of you know, I've been on the plain old zoom call. Of course I'm still on the plane old fashioned Webinar. I've been in a couple situations with different tech that has like live chat and different rooms on the side. Like from your experience, because you produced a virtual event back in what two thousand and five? Yes, I'm sure the tech was a lot different than an internet. Connectivity was about not nearly as good as it is today, but you know this really, really well and you're teaching it to people and your team is teaching it to people. You're helping people plan it in coordinated what are a few takeaways for folks like what are a few characteristics of a great virtual event? Absolutely, excitement, entertainment and engagement or networking of some sort. I think are the most important points. It's almost kind of the show business and, unfortunately, because not everybody is in a room together, to kind of feel that energy. You rely on having really engaging speakers and so I think that this is a really good time to hire a legitimate MC that knows how to get the crowd going. One of the group set to the Hackathon had a legitimate MC in that group and he was in there with the music going and got the energy up and, you know, did the moderation and was able to generate or replicate that excitement that you would usually have in an in person events, and so bringing that sort of energy is huge. What sort of platform do you have available for engagement? And you have the chat open on zoom. That was one of the big questions that we had when we were first doing it, because it's kind of dice sometimes. We do now have a virtual bouncer and so if you start promoting your stuff, will kick you out nice. But I think that offering the opportunity to get those chats going has been something that not only with are event, but I'm in quite a few SAMO communities. They all have the chats going and get such great information and ability to share and I've met a number of new people through those chats. So I think that that's a really great thing to do. Of course, that's an extension of the APP to keep it going, you know, before during an after because that sense of community, I think, has always been necessary in there, but I think it's more important right now than ever, and so I think it's a really great time for people to lean into that community concept, because we're all home, we're all in a captive audience, we're all looking for something. I think that when you take a look at content, you really need to be careful of the length of your content and the number of speakers that you have. I think the statistic is person can pay attention to one speaker for eight minutes continuously and then they start to lose their attention, and so if you mix up the speakers...

...and mix up the content that you're bringing in pretty consistently, that will help keep people they're involved, engaged, because one of the big things that's happening right now is zoom fatigue and then distractions. How many tabs do you have open on your computer right now? And so is the Webinar and afterthought, or are you able to keep everybody's attention event and be did another Webinar a couple weeks ago and they did a really amazing job with the production value. They had a sketch artist WHO's sketching out each of the speaker's presentations and putting it into cartoons and they would show it after each of the speakers was done. They had a songwriter paying attention to the whole thing and about three quarters of the way through, presented a song, you know, that was base off of everything that he learned. So there are a lot of really neat things that you do from and entertainment perspective that you can weave through to really kind of keep that engagement and experience top. Not so many good tips there. If you're listening to this and you have the thirty second or sixty second bounce back, I encourage you to do so, whether you're an attendee or someone potentially producing something like this. So many great tips there. And as you were offering that, I'm thinking about some good real events I've been at, or not real in person events, they're all real. Some virtual events that I've been at that have been, you know, some good, some bad, and thinking of my son and I go to like one or two NBA Basketball Games every year and that's exactly what they do. It makes so much sense. Is like the second the the primary action stops, there's something else to keep the energy, keep the attention, etc. And it reminds me too of an event that I participated in as a speaker where I had to deliver a five to seven minute presentation and then there were ten minutes of Qa and they just turned us over, turned us over, turned us over, and then a couple events that I've been at. That just as a final, I guess, tip. And then I have a kind of a bigger, separate question for you. Those breaks at the bottom of the hour, you know, tops and bottoms of the hours, that people can go do what they need to do rather than expecting them to just sit there for hours on end until lunch or whatever. Kind of last question here before I get to a couple questions. I always love to ask against Spartan kind folks like you on the show. I just wanted to ask this because you've led sales and marketing teams, you've led global marketing efforts. You've got exposure to and experience in a wide variety of channels and disciplines. What are some like a couple heart and valuable lessons you've learned along the way? Any trends you're seeing. Just just give me a high level on you know, I have someone like you and we have an audience of people in a variety of disciplines. You know, if you were going to give some tips or advice based on all the things you've learned in your experience, we're a couple things that stand out to you that you might offer someone. I think that taking a look at yourself and having empathy for the market that you're going after and really being able to dive into and try to really understand what they're true needs are and what they're going a after, I think makes you more of an authentic...

...marketer. I think that the best experience that I draw from is having run magazines and having to grow an audience, keep an audience and keep them wanting to read your content, you know, week of a week, and that takes a certain level of expertise and intellect about whatever industry that it is that you're serving in a certain level of passion for that industry to really make it resonate and really make it authentic. And so what I've been doing with every marketing team that I've run is we never sell and anything that we produced could be further distributed anywhere. If the Wall Street Journal called needed an article, they could go to our blog and pick up anything, and so I think that that empathy, thought, leadership and just getting down to really good, clean business. When you take a look at Seo, there's like what I called the dark arts. You can get really tricky really fast, but nobody wins in the end. And so if you focus on what your customers need, what they really need, and give them authentic content and tools to support them and support their businesses, everybody wins and that's been one of the things that I strive to do in any deal that I put together. How to do how does the other person win? How do I win? What does that needs really look like to everybody's benefit? There's so much in there and I want to have like another twenty minute conversation, but I won't out of respect for your time and how to respect for our listeners. so much good stuff there. Thank you so much for that. If you've enjoyed this conversation with Corey McCarthy, I've got a couple other CMOS. I have several, but you're too top of mine. If you want to check out episode six with Steve Passinelli, who's the CMO and one of my team members at bombomb that one was called connecting with customers by exploring a shared belief. There's kind of a community element there and it gets to kind of this empathy and authenticity and really being passionate about it and sharing that within through your customers. That's episode stick six with Steve Passonelli, and then on episode fourteen, Samantha Stone, CMO at the marketing advisory network. That was balancing automation, AI and human relationships where we get at this tension, and you were kind of there with the dark arts piece in my in my mind, I'm not deeply studied on this. In my mind, all Google's trying to do is serve the humans searcher, and so the more you write for a human, the better off you're going to be in the long run. To your like, nobody wins with these kind of tricks and Shenanigans and whatnot. So, Cory, how about you take a moment to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and and give a shoutout or a nod to a brand or a company that you really respect for the experience they deliver for you as a customer. Absolutely. I think that a nod that I'd like to give to somebody who helped me professional in my career is my coach, Steve Axel, and he was a NASDEXSMO. I really value the time that he spends with me. He has really helped elevate me as a professional and then to I also use him as a sounding board, so you've got checked...

...different things that I'm doing professionally, since he has such great semo experience. So incredibly thankful for the time that I get to spend with Steve. He and I've been working together for a couple of years now and it's something that I treasure. As far as a brand that I love right now, it's called who gives a crap. They sell toilet paper on a subscription and their marketing is clever, it's thoughtful, it's unique. Every time you turn around there's this moment of delight, whether it's looking at the bottom of the box and it tells you to take a vacation or when you get down to the last role and it says, Oh crap, it's time to order more. So they're funny and it's just a delight. Their CEO had a really nice email that he wrote during the pandemic because they also ran into a shortage, and the level of humanity and humility that he showed in this message was fantastic. And so, as a marketer, I really appreciate their messaging, the way they've been able to position this and really how they've moved through the whole pandemic with grace. Really good and another product that I guess two years ago I never would have expected would be available on subscription, but everything is now. So if you've enjoyed this conversation, I'M GOING TO LINK UP Steve, I'll link up who gives a crap and I'll link up a couple other things that will ask you about now, and if you're listening, can always learn more about the guests. You can see video clips, we do short write ups and again we link up related materials at Bombombcom podcast. And so a couple other things I'll link up here for you, cory. How can someone connect with you or with socio? Where would you send people if they want to follow up on some of the themes that we've talked about today? Yeah, absolutely, I'm socio DOT events is the website for us, and then I'm Corey McCarthy, cry MCC are tchy on Linkedin. More than happy to talk to anybody. I think that now more than anything, right now, it's a great time to get together and share. It is. I completely agree. I appreciate you getting together with me to share ideas with me and with all of our listeners here on the podcast. Again, you can connect with Corey. I'll link all this stuff up at bombombcom slash podcast. I thank you so much for your time and insights, Corey. You're awesome. Thank you so much for having me. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing...

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