The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

9. Why Customers Leave and How to Win Them Back w/ David Avrin

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you want to know why customers leave and you want to know how to win them back, have I got a podcast for you.

I learned so much from David Avrin, a customer experience & marketing keynote speaker, consultant and author, whose most recent book is Why Customers Leave (and How to Win Them Back): (24 Reasons People are Leaving You for Competitors, and How to Win Them Back*).

Avrin helps companies become responsive to their customers and prospect’s needs.

Since the advent of the iPhone 11 years ago, everyone has gotten acclimated to instant gratification.

The problem today is that every failure in customer experience becomes magnified because every person you encounter is armed with a video camera on their phone.

Everyone is on camera. Everything is being recorded. Everything is being shared.

People feel it's not only the right, but it's their responsibility to go online and rant about any slight or infraction.

Unfortunately most companies haven’t adapted to this faster pace. Only 15% of companies have adopted an always-on business model to accommodate their always-connected customers.

Rightly or not, people expect an immediate response.

To learn more about how to get your customers back, click on the podcast link in the first comment below.

Ital audiencees, I toll organizations Iwork with. I said you have to do business with an expectation that everyperson you encounter is armed with a video camera because they are and it'sall on their phone. So it's a scary time to be in business. You're. Listening to the customerexperience podcast a podcast dedicated to helping today's growing businessesrestore a personal human touch throughout the customer. Life Cycle,get ready to hear Hou sales, marketing and customer success, experts, surpriseand delight, and never loose sign of their customers. Humanity here is yourhost eefan Baute! Hey! If you want to know why customersleave and you want to know how to win them back, you are in the right place.Welcome back to the customer experience podcast my guest today is a customerexperience, expert he's a customer experience in marketing, keenote,speaker and consultant he's the author of three books. It's not who you knowit's who knows you, visibility, marketing and the new why customersleave and how to win them back. My favorite thing about this book so farand we'll get to David in a minute is that j bar of convincent convert andthe author of Talk Triggers Calls this book anevicerating indictment of howpoorly customers are often treated and the powerful recipe for doing the exactopposite David avern. Welcome to the customer experience podcast, it's greatto be here. My friend yeah. I love the. I Love The evisterating indictment, I'msure we're going to get into some of those themes, but David. I want tostart where I always start, which is your definition or your thoughts aboutcustomer experience. What does it look like? What does it feel like oitscharacteristics? Sure and that's a great question, because, because Ithink it's sort of a new discipline, though I think some of t e, the tenantsof it are- are fairly timeless, but so many people, I think who used to besort of customer service people, have more fin a custom for experience. I'mactually one of these people that morfed from marketing to customerexperience and sort of the genesist of it for me was the fact that I've beenbeen teaching marketing from the Stage Writing Books Consulting for twentyplus years, and what I found was that I'm working with these organizations,we do a great job of positioning them or maybe repositioning them ofattracting customers and clients, and then they screw it up by pissing themoff. Somehow right, you know, Theye Thee, a wonderful product, gratservices, great people and then they put them on hold for forty five minuteswere things that that will frustrate them and then they no longer recognizetheir greatness because they're distracted by something else. So in mymind, customer experience is how do you as a customer- and I think, ourgreatest rol, even for those of us in business, our most predominant role isthat of a consumer right, as we all are, is how do we experience doing businesswith you at every point of contact way beyond customer service? I think we getthat it's not unimportant, but I think I's a well known that they service witha smile and engage people and beat them...

...to the greed and all of those things. Ithink we get that. I think it requires ongoing reminders and training, butcustomer experience is very different. Is How do your customers, literallyphysically Virtualy, experienced doing business with you at every point ofcontact and what's interesting today? is a failure ant any of those points e,even falling short, that any of those PAS can be enough to drive people awayand into the arms of of competitors, and so what I do is I speak across thecountry and around the world bout. Twenty four countries in the lastseveral years, working with organizations, companies, associationsand others to help them pull out a magnifying glass and look morecarefully from the customers perspective online on their phone paceto face during the transaction after the transaction and saying how arepeople doing business with you and, more importantly, how do they want todo business with you and how do they want to do business with you? Two yearsfro now and what are we doing to addressal of that? That's awesome,really broad coverage there of all the fhemes around customer experience, OGreat Response, and it's that every touchpoint piece and you talked aboutthe various yeah and ways we connect with people. Talk to me now about therelationship between customer experience and visibility. Visibilityis kind of a theme with you, Jorility coachcom visibility, international.What is this theme of Visibility About for you? Well, you know what'sinteresting today and probably more than ever in try is that everythingthat happens is is shared. You know for anybody, W, O and WH. I askd audiences.I said okay, who has teenagers at home right they overshare everything I meanthere is nothing that they don't take. Pictures of and sharing as a parent ispretty scary. Sometimes it's like. Can you actually have a thought that youdon't share with the world because the Internet is forever and so in terms ofvisibility? It's the good is the bad and the ugly yelp trip adviser, rottentomatoes, glass door. Everything is shared, so organizations really have topay attention O give a multibillion dollar company and some moreon sixteenyear old on a friend end, who takes a hamburger, Bun and wipes it on thefloor to get back at a customer and video tapes. It and you know a and putsit on link chattered snap face, or you know, and my kids are funny t e, like,Oh my God, Dad you don't get it. I said. Oh No, no, no, I teach it trust me. Ido so visibility, it can be intertional and it can be inadvertent. I tellaudiences I toll organizations I work with. I said you have to do businesswith an expectation that every person you encounter is armed with a videocamera because they are and it's all on their phone. So it's a scary time to bein business. It's a scary M to be a parent, but the reality is yourcompetitors are dealing with the same thing. Now I don't know how this is allgoing to flesh out in the next several years I mean there. His has to be someway for the pendulum to swing back, but...

...right now, everybody's on camera.Everything is being recorded, everything is being shared but feel notit's not only their right, but it's their responsibility to go online andrant about any perceived slight or in fraction right twenty years ago, peoplein business, you know not everybody's going to be happy, you do everythingyou can you try and make it right and at some point you just got to walk awayright, somebody's just not going to be happy today you can't walk away becausethey won't- and so so in my book why customers will and how to win the back.I detail twenty four resonce that that people get frustrated a companies andalmost every case it's inidvertent on the part of the company they're notintending to frustrate or annoy their customs they're, just trying to beefficient, they're trying to be predictable in terms of their behavior.But what happens in that is that there are scenarios that are outliers thatmaybe aren't part of their training and how they resn to those is reallyimportant. That's the experience that the customers having when there's aspecial request, the easiest answer is always kno. Sorry, we don't do that. What's the alternative D, I mean that Igive you a quick scenario, so young woman's at a restaurant with herfriends and there's a chicken see or salad and she looks on the menu andthey'r shrimp on some othing she says. Can I can I get SRIMP instead ofchicken? They said. Oh sorry, we don't do substitution, why you know whe, theydon't do substitutions because the cook doesn't want to. I don't care what theCook wants to do. I look at this as if I'm the owner of that business, giveher what she wants m charge, her a couple extra buck, she's: Fine! What'sthe alternative not giving your customers what they ask for and thenthey never come back and they go online and they rant about how much you suck,and so I kind of detailed those kinds of things that tha. I think companiesdon't think about the you know. Negative replies aretypically more common than positive ones, but you absolutely scenario whereyou give this shrimp: You do it at equal price and that could maybe not just as likely, but it couldlikely become a positive, oer, positive, post or share. So the picture you paintis really intimidating. I think, and you might have used that word already-might ev ceeded. I should be yeah because it's every touchpoint and we'realways on it's funny. I came from a broadcast television background, and soyou know I always had this idea that these missed opportunities are alwayshappening right, like if I don't have a new promo or the right promo airing inthe right spot like this, it just comes and goes, but now it's everything allthe time, everyone's always on. Let's get a little bit more intodisappointment. I've always sad. One of my life philosophies is thatdisappointment is a function of expectations. Yo are disappointed whenthey expected something more or better or even just different and part of thepremise of your book. Obviously, and you've already alluded to it. A littlebit is that consumers in Er expectations have changed at a highlinace. What's changed, what kind of...

...timeline are we talking about? Hereustalk a little bit about consumer expectations so that we can maybemanage them or meet them or exceed them differently. Absolutely. This ishonestly the heart of everything I talk about and the reason why this is moreimportant than as ever been. It's not just this urgency, because business ishard and is competitive. It always has, but, but there is a significantdifferent. The marketplace has really occurredver the last eleven years or so,since the advent of the iyfolk, because everything so available at the touch ofour thumb at the swipe of our finger that we've become accustomed to gettingwhat we want when we want ton, we were kids and you didn't know how to spell aword, you'd say: Mom. How do you spell Ratito me? What would moms get thedictionary right? We don't do that anymore. We don't have to go to thelibrary to look something up. We expect everything now so I saw an interesting statistic. It saidonly fifteen percent of companies have adopted an always on business month toaccommodate their always connected cu ustomers. The people who are up at twoo'clock in the morning used to be the unemployed and the people sitting withthe Bagga Chetos. When now it's we're global we're world Wi in my office weare incredibly responsive because I'm got clients in Singapore and Doby andJohannesburg and Sydney, and so there's an expectation of immediate response.The other thing that that's interesting is that, like I said, becauseeverything is shared, it's different in our mindset has to change because wegrew up, listen, even you, we did stuff right growing up. There isno record of it right. You know everybody should have the right to makepoort choices as a Tean as a young person we've all done it. I'm dokinginappropriate more than illegal, but today there's a permanence toinfractions, and so today the world is different. It's not just theexpectations in terms of immediacy and accommodation and all of that, but alsoin terms of the permanence of infractions and the permanence ofpeople's comments and reactions, and so it is a challenging time in businessand things are different and so okay, you know I rpeople lament. I work withclients, I said Yeah, but this and this and this and I look I'm Gin- I go. Okay, that's the way it is so what are yougoing to about it? And so the good news is those who are very cognitant andthat's why I think podcast like this are very important to bring to lightsome of the new thinking around this in the challenges and help peoplerecognize so that they can take action, because I still hear there's peoplewith this old mindset and eth and I still hear organizational leader, CEOSand otthers get in front of their companies and they'll still say thingslike listen folks. At the end of the day, it's still about quality and Icould not disagree more at the beginning of the day. It's about Col,bute quality is the entry F. You better...

...be good at what you do. That's not theat the end of the day, it's about competitive annage at the end of theday, it's about recruitment and retention is about being better thanothers who are good at what you do. So I think, there's a real connection tomarketing and I think we can market a superior customer experience, but I'lltake lit's, not it's not woll moments. I mean it's great if you have them, butit's not about somebody having a wow moment and you celebrate that for ayear it's about everybody getting what they want, how they want it. O me, wecan always accommodate everything, but we have to try yeah that couple reallygreat things there in particular the permanence of infractions. I don't knowif that's a great album title from a cool band or if it's a great ebook,that you should offer as as a underlogr at least a really good tweet Hash TagDavid Everan, there you go yeah, the permanence of infractions is awesome,and this this wild moment's thing. Before I get onto the to question, Iintended to ask you toucer bit more about that. I think there's a littlebit of tension, especially in the CS world customer success. pastomersupport world in particular about this balance between. I think what you'readvocating for is the single most important thing is the desired outcome.When a lot of times what gets the headline or gets the conversation orwhat we want to pat ourself in the back for is the while moment talk about thetension or or any other aspect of desired outcome versus whol moment asas a primary deliverable sure. But I I think goes back to what you said before,which is the managing expectations. Wow moments are great, I'm not AAs wellmoments. Well, moments are great because they are shared, probably morethan others, because they are extra ordinary right. It is its somethingwhere somebody went waigh above and beyond, but you don't build business asAA momentary, fleeting press about it's great, but it's an old bossom ine usedto say when you do things like that, it's like it's like peeing in yourpaints. It'll, give you a really warm feeling for a moment, but it's notgoing to do you much good in the long run, and so what I talk about is makingsure that, first of all that we correct anything and everything that mightcause people distress or frustruction, or things like that. But beyond that isgalvanizing in policy. Here's who we are. This is how we do what we do andevery point of Ontech, and so you know, I think we spend so much time, trainingour staff and our people on policy quoting, and I think what we shouldreally do is spend more time, training them on decision making, and so insteadof those situations where it's the easiest thing that a littvlofpredictability comes from. Just here's. How we do it right if we don'tlet them make decisions, then they're not going to make a wrong decisionright. I look at it from the perspective of hiring so compani spendso much time recruiting and interviewing and evaluating prospectsand going through the interview process and asking them questions to checktheir judgment and as soon as we hire...

...them, we neuter them right now. Just doit this way in the reality is, I think, sometimes the greatest gift thatcompanies have is. There is their people right. They have differentexperiences in judgment and and YEA. Occasionally They Mak make a wrongdecision, but give them giving them the freedom to infuse s. A measure ofhumanity. Sometimes just do the right thing,because it's the right thing to do. You may not even make money on it I'll workwith people. Well approach me sometimes about speaking about a subject. I don'tspeak about and what I do is I make sure I they find the exact right personthat will do a killer job. I don't speak on yourship. I don't speak ontime management. I do customer experience and I do Markin, but I willhelp them find the right person, because it's the right thing to do. Youcan call it Karma, you can call it kismit or whatever else. So I don'tknow if I'm answering a question, but but I think the I think that the pollin terms of of Dliverables, I think that that comes about as a result ofhaving very pleased, customers and clients. I think the wow moments areepisotic, but I well designed well executed. Well, reinforced customerexperience program is persistent. It is predictable, as opposed to somethingthat is, that is instantaneous or episodic. Both can be valuable, but oneis sustainable. That's great love it. I also love the call to to recruit andretain and train employees well to empower them to light them up on. Thisis who we are, and this is how we do what we do and then allow them at thespace to make appropriate decisions consistent with the values consistentwith the mission consistent with how you do what you do, but with their ownfreedom to do the right thing. I think companies. I think companies would bestunned if they really took a step back and how often they say no to their customers and prospects, andmaybe that I's not even the word. No, maybe it's just oh sorry. We can'tallow that or sorry you bring that coke in the store. Really, I is that forfifty five year old part, sorry, I'm not going to get chocolate on yourclothes, but you're treating you know, we're leaving stories and they'rechecking our receit. Did your Reyo think I just stole something Ri youtalkig about like every time I leave Cosco. I wonder, like you just making sure I don't have anEty inch TV in my cart, that's not having te seat. It's like it's liketrust him until they until hey become untrustwherte. They have all chapterabout that. I Stup stop treating your customers like like criminals, but wealso say now: There's there's some really interesting ways that that Imean there's one Palhian. I talk about this because this one makes me crazythat most people don't think about, because I think it's actually thecruelest popsy, how many times da you Seeng in the window of a storerestrooms for customers only overseas the column Toiletsright Toil, let'sjust fort for customers on realling somebody. You needs to use the restroom. I mean my God, be a human being. Well we're not here. I don't want totake people take advantage, wer taking advantage you they have, they have togo to the bathroom. You know I talke to...

...audiences an you know, and I there's alot of humor and it's very entertaining when I speak, but I use itstrategically to temper a pretty tough message about what it takes to competetoday and I'll ask them. I say how many of you show by showhands how mny of youhave ever bought something you would never you would nove have never boughtbefore. Just so, you could use the bathroom write, a chapstick, a pack, agum right, a cup of coffee. Well, guess: Wance Sparky, you just made a buck.Thirty, five and I'll never come back again, your jerk, you know I mean it'sjust at some point, we're so worried that people are going to take advantageof and do the wrong thing that we punish everyone for what Astensi ly bethe actions of one percent or two percent a and I get that companies haveto protect themselves against loss and everything else, but I walk into somestole. I was in a a big box, something an in a city and Iwon't I won't name them specifically, but they seem far more concerned aboutwhat somebody might feel than what they might sell. I mean I tried to go in thein the dressoo O Sarry. You can't take more than three items really, but Iwant to try on more than three items. Oh, when you can't bring shoes at all,I'm, like my God, do you really think I'm going to steal something you know,and it's everything and I ter the way certain minorities are treated, is sotragic and so cruel that this this suspicion, tre people like human beings, doreasonable things to you know for lost prevention, but treat people like humanbeings and, once again I go through so many of these things in the books andand everything else. But I really see myself- maybe it's selfappointedcrusader on this, but I think companies businesses can do so much better ofmaking us feel respected. That certainly will foster royalty. Yeah thethe call to treat people likepeople, I think, is, I feel, like it's been emerging well in general businessculture over the past several years. You know, there's companies that get ityeah. I think it's really important and- and I love that that's a theme you'vealready you've- already hit on that two or three times just in thisconversation already to go on that just a little bit his a little bit selfish,but you've serv dozens and dozens of videos with Bombam Andour. Our premisehere is that you're, better in person and that, if you're just a little bitmore personal and human and some of the touches that you're making you'll bemore successful, just Gomo just give me minute or two on why you like video forcommunication and how it maybe humanizes you or how has people feellike they know you before they ever meet you yeah and listen. This is t.This is not an endorsement. This is not. I mean this is not a paid. Endorsementis not a commercial. I am a Bombom, Evangela and, and grantit can be almostany video I like bombam because of the analytics like it can track. Who opensit, but we have we kill it with Bombam, because for us he is that little bitthat pushes it over over the hup. They already we're already talking toengaging with HA perspective, client they're, considering me to keenotetheir confirence, but I also know that...

...whoever else is a finalist is likelyvery, very good at what they do: Ive wonderful colleagues and connectionswho are very good at this. So I know it's just a preference at that point,so we can never allow everything to be equal and so for us, Bombam is ourcompetitive advantage, because if I have an opportur face to face with theclient that they've seen a proposal, they've talked to myn assistant, we'vetalked numbers whill. Now they get a here from me. Here's what I know aboutyour industry, here's what I'll deliver and when we create that duit's, a verysimple bomb bomb right. It's a thro one hi Jennifer David Everen customerexperience Mar Kino speaker know even talking to Tiffany here in my office,about the possibility of me coming and presenting for your conference comingup in Vegas in November. I tell you. I think that fit is great, an going andtalk about their industry. They hear me talking about the deliverables, here'swhat I'll do and I then I look at the camerand. I say I will make you a herofor bringing me in. I promise keep woring with tiffany. Anybody wants tohave a conversation right, because what you can't do an email, as you can'thave inflection you can't have enthusiasm. I mean the best you can dois put things in all caps or bold, but then it looks like your shout get themso for us, it's very personal. It's very face to face. They can see a smileon my face. They can see the enthusiasm can talk about them. The people who are,as we've talked to others and promoted this and encourage them to do itsometimes they're very nervous- and I say, listen first of all, if you don'tlike it, delete it and start over again, I do it. I do it all the time, but Isay how often are you nervous when the phone rings and they go? What do youmean? I so win the phone rings where you you have no idea who's they're,what you're going to say, but you're not nervous. You just have aconversation. I say think of that the same way when you do a bombomb, a videoemail that communication just talk to him, don't give them a speech. Don'twrite a script because it's it' there. IT IS INAUTHENTIC! So there's myendorsement for Bombamb, because we use it, and I will tell you our conversionrate when we get to the point where my assistant says: I need you to do. Abomb bomb have a quick conversation with them: Yere upwards of eightypercent conversion rate, just when we use bomum and it's not about thevehicle, it's about using that vehicle well and to be very, veryconversational. So us it's part of our experience. They love working withTiffany, she's, brilliant she's, a dream very efficient, but then theyexperienced working with me, and so this, for us, is a little bit ofsampling right. This is like Cosco and Sam's Club on a Saturday. You can feeda family of twelve at Cosco on a se right. It's giving them a chance to totry before they buy what it's like to do business with you before they dobusiness with you and so fobomom for us. is they get a chance o? What see whatit's like to work with me to understand my perspective, my approach, mydeliverables before they make a decision, and so for us it has beenremarkably successful. Awesome. I again...

I wasn't just fishing for all. I knowyou were, but I'm Havy to do so. It's important for people to understand iswe're talking about treating people as humans and human connection, and youhit a few really really important key ideas, not using a script. This isabout being who you are, you know being authentic, it's about differentiatingyourself and you are your own best, differenti eater, not only if you'R,David Averan and what you're selling is Davod David Avernan, the David Averanexperience on the stage at your next event. Every single one of us is ourown best differentiator in the Senorin was earned because of who we are, andour next opportunity is going to be one because of who we are, whether you'redirectly in sales or not directly in sales I'll. Let me throw let me throwone last thing before you move on, because I'm I want to Pickyo back onthat. The worst thing that can happen for anoand we're all in sales. We'reall trying to INFOR US Y, even saying in speaking speaking, is not a business.Getting the GIG is the business right. Speaking is the performance. This isdeliverable. The risk is for anybody. INSE is having somebody else presentyour materials to the decision maker, more sales is lost, are lost in thatgap because nobody sells yourself better than you do. Nobody knows whatyou do so, if you present to somebody and then find out they're, not thedecision maker, and then they go. Oh Yeah, I talk to David Averon. He seemedreally smart, nd enthusiastic. He talks about this and this they just lostninety five percent of what I do so the real value for us of the Bombam of thevideo communication is that we are making our pitch for us and nobody, asyou said, does it better than we can do it ourselves, Yep and get past thegatekeeper and then the tracking and analytics close the loop. So you knowyou gout there. So when your see your email got open fourteen times, thenvideo got played eight times. You know you made it through just fine erbefore.I go to to a couple ways. I really love to wrap these conversations. You' runCEO Round Table Groups, you've done it did it for several years, when, ofcourse, you cansult companies all over the world. Talk about that level ofThet Organization. You know at the very beginning of Copersation, you referredto customer experiencas, a new discipline based on timeless tenets interms of the new discipline part of it. Where is customer experience in theCSWEET these days like? How seriously is it being taken? Is it being activelydeveloped, managed structure like what? What are the conversations happening inthe sea? Sweet around customer experience specifically this this newdiscipline version of it not just the timeless tenats of it sure I think moreand more, I think they're really really getting a first of all for those whoare voracious erners within the CSUITE. They cannot help but heare again andagain again about about customer experience. Sometimes I think it it'soverly analytical that sometimes they're so hundred thousand feet thatit's almost too much but they'r recognizing it. I think some of themare just being pulled along and recognizing the significantdifferenceas between customer...

...experience and customer service bothimportant, but I think it's absolutely being recognized more and more how theydo it and in actually putting a personnel in in place and in charge ofthe effort and coordinating with their marketing Eppers coordinaing with theirsales efforts and making sure that it's an inegrated program is it's young, but there are majororganizations who really really get this, who are acting as a model forothers. You know, I think one of e thing that's interesting. Even from aconsumer perspective, historicy we have always business has always been sort ofcompared against others, in their space and and as a business owner. You kindof had to be better than than the middle point of other competitors Yaure,hopefully on Hiherend consumers today are comparing companies to everybodyright. Well, Uber can tell me what my driver looks like where they are andwhen they're going to show up. Why can't you do that Kay, bright, unny,right, rigt or Amazon can deliver in thirty minutes in some city whatever.Why can't you so that alone and the potential loss and the disruption which,of course is profound, is making everybody take notice, and especiallywhen they're sort of a measure of parody in terms of quality andcommitment and carying and trust and all the stuff that alyready talks abouteverybody's good? Today I mean you, if, wouldn't if you weren't a Youd, beouted pretty quickly because the Internet outs under performers, so whatthey're realizing is their real opportunity for differentiation is theexperience, and so I work hard to make sure that they understand theexperience isn't about syperatic Wol momentnts, but it's about aconsistently predictable great better than most experience. Transactionetceer awesome, as you may know, as someone who's been connected with ourteam and our company ATR BUR for some time core value number one for us isrelationships, and so I always like to give you, as we come to a closer alwayslike to give you the opportunity to thank or mention someone who's has apositive impact on your life or your career and a company. That's doingcustomer experience really really well today, sure you know wothere's so manypeople. I love that old nd and I think it's probably a poster, a motivationalposter on the wall of a lot of organizations as well in something thatsays. When I see a turtle on a fence post, I know that he didn't get thereby himself right and so for all of us. Who've had a measure of success. For meit's Cam, but it's also it's also mentors and mentors who became friendsand colleagues, and then it almost like the role switch, because you becomecolleagues when you're young in the business you're in your ties, but whenyou're mature in your s and I'm fifty five now we're all kind of peers atthat point. But but there was a one of my best friends aguy named Eric Chesterwho speaks on sort of the emerging workforce. He wrote so many great books,there's a Grat book called onfire at work, and but Eric Chester for me hasbeen my friend my mentor there's Times t that I've helped him and he's, andthe People Thare sortof with you for...

...decades and he's one of those guys sohey. I appreciate the opportunity gaves o an in terms of companies that do this.Well, I'm trying to think of just I mean there's, there's the classic onesthat come to mind the Zapples and whoever else the southwest airlines andwhatever. But I think there's a couple of things that I think typify them and,and you can almost find two or three companies and almost any category oneis that they are remarkable in the sense that they're worthy of beingremarked about right. There's something they're doing this so interesting ordifferent, or better or faster or more facilitated or more personal orhumorous that it actually makes you want to talk about them to someone elseand so for like Southwest Airlines and one of those just because they have thefunny. You know messages whatever. No, I going to go on southwest airlinesjust because you know that that there's a good chance that the flight attend isgoing to do a funny safety announcement. No, but you remember more you'r yourlikely to betch about him because you know travel is so difficult andeverything else, but then there're the other ones who just make itastonishingly easy to do business with them. And for me, the superstars incustomer experience are the ones who make it, astonishingly easy to dobusiness the ones I mean, there's great companies that you literally cannottalk to a real person. If you want to you, go to their website and you cansearch for twenty minutes and you will not find a phone number or an emailaddress and they intentionally decided as an organization. We will not let ourcustomers talk to us. Like literally, I want to slash mywrists under the table and then they expect us to have loyalty and to wantto do business with them, but they're designing their business to purposelybe dificult to do business with, and it boggles my mind so to answer questionterms of who does this right? Anybody who is astonishingll easy to dobusiness with, and anybody who gives you something to talk about? We love.We say we. If you want people to talk about you, give them something to talkabout love it and you also ran through. If anyone wants to hit that thirty,second back button or fifteen second or sixty second back button, you ranthrough a few characteristics to it doesn't always have to be one thingright. You said you know. Humor is one way to do it, but there're several ways,several ways to do that. The thing I love about southwest personally is thetransferency concept. Yo again, it's not a surprising delight. It's not awow! It's just this, I'm not going to nickel and dyng you even united, whoI'm very loyal to and have the credit card and fly off and rigt they'restarting to charge nine bucks for like the seats in the middle of economy.Instead of putting in the bet it's Likeso. This idea that just buy your ticket, the cost, is thecost. You can bring your bags on we'll get you on the plane quickly. It's likethat's this! That's this desired outcome, delivered really easily hey.Devin Ha's been an absolute pleasure. I assume folks can go onto to Amazon oranywhere else by the way, absolutely to pick up why customers leave and how towin them back wherere. Some other ways people can connect with you sure mywebsite is visibility. Internationalcom,...

I'm actually remarkably easy to get ahold of. I always tell people unless I'm a plane or on stage I'm available.I've got staff, but I am I work once again because I'm in a competitivemarketplace to be astonishingly easy to do business with. So if anybody wantsto reach out, I respond personally as well. I don't always have the time toschedule. My assistant schedules that, but my books are all online they're allon audiobook and my voice, they're all on kindle and I'm an evangelist, so anybody whosWHO's. Looking for for connection, I'm happy to do so, and I appreciate theopportunity to extol the virtues of Bombam, but also to engage in mycrusade to help people and organizations treat people better andrespectfully and more humingly. I have a a levie with this. My Life Mission,my Montra, is on the wall. I staring at it right now and I type it up and Ijust it says I want to spend my life doing things that matter with peoplewho care and that's how I approach everything. It's a perfect conclusion.When you operate from that mindset, it's going to be really difficult to do.Customer Experience Poorly David Averan and for anyone that wants to go checkhim out is just David and then Av Rin, David Averan. It's been an absolutepleasure, love your philosophy, uas well my friend, and continue success toyou and if I can never be a value, let me know all right. Thank you! BODDY! You are listening to the customerexperience podcast, no matter your role in delivering value and servingcustomers. Youre intrusting, some of your most important and valuablemessages to faceless digital communication. You can do betterrehumonize. The experience by getting face to face through simple personalvideos, learn more and get started. Free at Bom, Bomcom you've beenlistening to the customer experience podcast to ensure that you never missan episode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player or visitvon Bomcom. Thank you. So much for listening until next time.

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