The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

99. 3 Ways CX Programs Go Wrong (and Right!) w/ Ian Luck

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The CX gap is a misalignment between CX and the C-Suite… and it’s the major reason that CX programs fail.

 

Why? Failure to make the data relevant.

 

In this episode, I interview Ian Luck, VP of Global Marketing at CustomerGauge, about bridging the CX gap and making customer-centric decisions based on accurate CX data.

 

In this episode, you’ll learn about...

 

- What lies at the heart of the CX gap

 

- The 3 biggest CX mistakes (long surveys, ROI, & data distribution)

 

- Achieving alignment between C-suite & CX

 

- The NPS & CX Benchmarks Report

 

Check out this resource we mentioned during the podcast:

 

- CustomerGage’s 2018 NPS® & CX Benchmarks Report


Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play,or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

...whather be Raven, served tat, texte thewebsite visiness support ticpots, it's kind of like that. Amalgamation of allof these did apoints that are important at the account level to gauge sentiment,and sometimes honestly, absencef signal is really what is driving this accountfexperience software in the back on the single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host Eten Beaute, the CX gap, it's the gap that leaves some customerexperience, initiatives and programs underresourced at best and Doa at worsttoday. Well talk about what causes that gap and ways to Bridgeit so that yourteam can start or continue identifying CX issues, advancing a more customer,centric culture and developing CX insights with the support you needamong other activities and accomplishments. Our guests today isserved as a retention. Marketing manager he's created an onlinecommunity for rapid growth marketers and he founded his own demand, GenAgency. He also serves has VP of global marketing for customer gauge, whichcombines experience and revenue data with account insights for clients likeHnr Black Event, bright and DHL, so they can make more customer centricdecisions and grow revenue faster. EAN LUCK! Welcome to the customerexperience podcast. I think you so much for that great intro, you thand, it'sbeen it's phenomenal! Thank you yeah. I, like a variety of things that you'reinvolved in talk a little bit about that. At what point did you decidebefore we get into customer experience at what point did you sid? You knowwhat this rapid growth marketing thing. We need a. We need to pull thee peopletogether and create a Culturang community around it yeah. So I'm notbig proponent of linked in right now and if you go on Linkdon, there are aton of sales experts in Linton and I'm talking like a massive amount of peoplethat are just kicking out some amazing insights every single day and Linkedinfor sales, but I mean and there's a good amount of marketers too lately,especially now with like clary drift, those types of people,sweefish media, stepping up their game and linked in, but there's not a truecommunity like for example, sales hacker is a great one for sales, but Ihaven't really found that go to community for marketers, where they canshare their deep insights at the tactical and strategic level. So that'skind of what really drove me to create that marking Strategycom community, anthat's thats kind of been the history of it. It's started from just a placeof selfishness. I think I wanted a place for myself to learn rom othermarketers and we just rolled it out from there. That's awesome and there'ssomething really strong about that sense of community I'll. Never forgetin a previous industry that I worked in you know. I felt like I was alone in mylocal market and then you go to New York for the big internationalconference you're like Oh, my gosh. All these people are facing the same thingsI'm facing the same problems they're facing theyr like yeah, it's reallynice to feel like you're, not alone, especially today. So it's awesome. So,let's start where we always start here, which is customer experience when I saycustomer experience to you EAN. What does that mean to you? Oh my God, so hat's such a greatquestion. It means a ton of things, but if I had to like narrow it down, Ithink it's the sentiment of your brand, your people, your process, yourtechnology, from the perspective of your customers, and it encompassesevery single touchpoint you have across their entire journey, but it reallyabove all, Elseo. I think it's like one of the only lasting differentiatorsthat brands can leverage for a long term, profitable growth when it reallycomes down to it great answer. I love it. It ties together so many thingsthat I also know oure true of customer experience.First, he said from the customers perspective in the customers. Realityis the reality we can argue about it if...

...we want to, but that is the reality andin the keypoint of differentiation is the thing as well. I mean beyondproduct beyond features beyond price. That is the differentiator that isdifficult to knock off and it starts inside out. You Got Tat, that's exactlywhat we're saying is the precse promotion product placement are kind ofthe old marketing mix, but I think it's being replaced by honest experiences.Now it's awesome. So what do you? I guess I'll just extend that a littlebit. Where do you think the intersextual likes there's a school ofthought that says customer Experienceis, an outgrowth of the customer successorganization and that's where it lives and that's where it comes from andthat's its birthplace, but then there's also the look that is across the lifecycle kind of a cro type approach to CX, which is it is all of the customertouchpoints and it might come out of marketing for you. Where does cx comefrom and what is its intersection with marketing or you know, there'sobviously a deep relationship there. But what is that relationship to you?Yeah great question. I think at its core, properly run. CX stemsfrom the Tos of the company itself, sowhether it be from the founder that puts it in place or the CEO that makesit a prioritized. You know initiative at the company level. I think it reallydoes stem from who you guys are as a company, but then it really does spreadacross the entire Orgu. Every department should touch it in some wareshout perform so and I'm not knocking customer success. I think there'sdefinitely a purpose for it, but I think what really sets some of thecompanies that do this experience thing apart are the ones that integrate itacross all departments, effectively tired to Roy tire to revenue and reportat that level. To the CEO, I think that's really the difference that wetalk about often, but it really for me it's across all touchpornts alldepartments. It really has to be for it to be a meaningfull thing. Awesome. Youreally did a nice job of previewing where we're going to go here over thenext several minutes, but before we get there, I would love to start withcustomer gage for folks who aren't familiar, tell us a little bit aboutcustomer gauge, specifically, who is your ideal customer and what are someof the problems that you solve for them yeah, so customer gage is a bit to be akind of experience software, so we focus primarily on bdb companies andwhat we do really well, as we handle the complexities that go along withthose btob companies. So a lot of these customer experienc softwares they focuson like single contact type feedback. What we do is we look at it it from anaccount level. So if you are a sales and marketing organization that have acomntbase marketing processes in place, we bolt on right to the customer sideof that. We really focus on providing a view of sentiment at the account leveland not only that we provide you with the tools to be proactive to fall upwith that feedback in real time across multiple different departments, we havedashports for sales marketing customer success whatever it might be, but wereally help you predict where turn will happen and it ae had a bit before itdoes happen. It's really what we do ell really interesting, so I can imagine anumber of data sources, obviously plugging intoand feeding it. What are some common inputs to the material that you'rereorganizing into a very sensible fashion for people yeah, so the firstone we start with is honestly revenue. We literally lead with Revenuet, so wewant you to. If you have old serviy did we can outfload that as well? But ifyou want to start from the ground up, we basically say all right give us alist of accounts with the revenue and then we start their actual experienceprogram. We Ou send out serviys, we do an appserving whatever it may be, howwe collect the DITA. We take all these imputs right, whether it be REVENUSERVA did text data website visits, support tickets, it's kind of like thaton the Algamation of all of these did apoirnts that are important at theaccount level to gage sentiment and sometimes honesty. Absence of signal isreally what is driving this accountf...

...experience software in the back end.It's it's saying Al Right. This account we haven't really heard from them in alittle bit. Their last score was maybe a seven or six thet haven't visited thewebsite in a while they haven't consumed content, that's kind of whatwe have baked in the back ind that smart algorithm. That really starts topredict all right. Maybe you might want to reach out to these guys now beforeyou know, six months before they renewled t to make sure that they don'tchurn, they have everything they need to continue your relationship with x company. Suppose I love it. I lovethat your example. There was that big quiet middle, where you know they're,not frustrated or confused enough to reach out to support. They may befilling out the NPS surveys and it's you know it's good, not great they're,not obviously actively using the software, and that is the big kind ofsilent threat in any customer database. Really, you know it's easy easy, not fair to say, but it's a great opportunity anytime.You have someone on the line to improve sentiment, whether they're therebecause they're confused frustrator, maybe even downright angry, but there'se some little things. You can do to turn that around and, of course, yourbiggest friends fans advocates are already engaging with you and they'reout there, hopefully bringing new customers and that type of thing, butthe opportunity to engage people who are just off the radars so so valuable.I love it. One follow up there n and the word sentiment right like you'retalking about account sentiment and it's not account activity. It's notaccount usage, it's not account expansion, although that's kind ofrolled into it to me sentiment, has kind of a connotation that is, I reallylike it. It's it's a little warmer, it's a little more feeling oriented, atleast in some of its connotations talk about the choice of the word sentimentthere yeah. So what I mean by that is likeexactly what I said. Ten A lot of companies approach it from like Hey,let's get all of this random data and like usage, stats, and things like that.I think that stems from customer success a little bit and that's okayright, like there's nothing wrong with that, but we found to be very valuable,is actually getting sentiment across three levels of the organization sealevel, midtle management and frontline staff right so- and this is essentially,how does the sea level feel about your solution? How does the MiddaleManagement Ofpel about your solution? How does the front lind feel about yourSulation, and that is what we really mean by count sentiment right. You geta very clear view, and this happens all the time you sea level loves it to seethe Voland T. sition no managements may be split, but then the front ind hitsyou the frint line, the people that are using the product. Every single day,they're not happy with their solution at all. They do not want to go into itevery day and that that's like common for a lot of companies and wework with a good amount of copanies that have that split where the sealevel gets it. They see the value, but you know, maybe you could do someimprovements to make the front land staff their experience a little bitbetter. So when I said count sentimen, it's really looking at it from aholistic standpoint: it's not just one contact and random with this guy's BPmarking right, it's really like segment ing your audience at the account leveland then getting sentiment on each individual section of those audences,but then layerin in those other data sources like Visis, like usage likesupport tickets, and that's when you really start to get, and we really lead,we believe in NPS like that, is our one of our main things. We really do getbehind in stand if done properly, because that really is the bestindicator of sentiment, but it's also the best enditator of again long termprofitable growth. Now we also believe NPS isn't necessarily enough anymore.You have to do some F of those other things, but that's really what we meanis like you get that that Cenema at the account lavel and kind of layer inthose extra little spices to hopefully help you predict turn a little bitquicker, really good. We will probably get to monetized dnps as a concept anas a practice or as an evolution. But...

...let's start here now with the with theCX gap. Let's, let's go into an organization that whether they'reimplementing something like customer gauge or whatever else a CX initiativelooks like talk about well first, I guess, let's start with, in my mind, thereare range depending onyou know, if you are an hnr black or an event bright, I'm sure CX initiativelooks a lot different than if you are a probably even a customer, gage or abombomb, and so maybe maybe start by defining, like customer experience,initiative or project or whatever, and talk about kind of the ranger scopethere, and maybe some of the pitfalls to avoid when youstart with a new one. It's realljust do observation, so let me expand on that.We talke to a good amount of prospects, as you can imagine, and we talked Toagood amount of customers, but I think on the prospect side, the reallyinteresting thing, especially from the Markenistin pointnd. It's actually achallenge which I love, my team loves, but no program is the same. So everycompany we talk to nobody's, doing it the same way, and Ithink that's what's really interesting about the experience Marketplaceis thatthere's so many variations of what people think to be best practice andhow they're actually implementing their system and it's TNOT. Even the sameacross industry, is like we're in industry even like, for example, SAScompanies. Do it a bunch of different ways it services? Do I a bunch ofdifferent ways? That really is a good cabit. Even is basically can vary likean ethin. Our block will do it very differently than Dachal or a hazard Bush, for example, an HaszarBushes, using our ACON experience software to measure their distributionchannel Er as agnor block, is using it an almost a BTBBTC context wherethey're measuring the Franchisee at the bdb level, their sentiment with thefranchise but they're also measuring it at the BDC level for their unusercustomer. So it really does run the glamine of things, and it isinteresting and threy're all structure, differently, departments own it anddifferent orgs, for example marketing, sometimes on or there is a CS customersuccess, team that owns it or there is a customer Spiren Tein that ons a Senfinate on I'v Sene operations on it. So that's it's tough from a marketingstanpart because, like I can't just say all right, this is our persona. We'regoing after operations, bu done like that. That is- and I don't want to saybecause again t ear plants nothing's easy anymore, but it's an easiermarketing tactic is to to line up er persona, but yeah. It really isdifferent for every org, but at the COR of it. The companies that we work withthat do extremely well are the ones that understand it's about action. It'snot just measuring it. It's not just saying hey. This is a great score. Thegap is when you lead with that score to the sea level and don't really back itup with any discernible metrics like, for example, revenue or return oninvestment or upsell cross cell. Those are the people that we've doneresearch with MIT as well. That literally shows, if you don't focus onreturn on Thi, vestment or upselling crosscell and referrals built in yourexperience program. Not only wil. You struggle to maintain internal bind fromyour sea level, but your program is not going to grow, an might even die, andit's a pretty much. I don't want to be too doom and gloom here, but it'sthere's a good chance that will die if you don't focus on those things, and so what do you think practitionersget wrong in that tame? And you say it and it seems so: common sensical anyoneoperating inside an organization than Wante to continue to operate or evenbetter Giv e resources, whether that's more budget or more team members orwhatever the case may be. Everyone should obviously be trying to mapthemselves to revenue. Just so to hear you sat is like yeah, of course, but Ialso had know the reality that a sometimes it's not easy to do and besometimes the culture doesn't demand it or sometimes maybe even support it. Soyou know for a practitioner who is involved either with a CX title or not.I mean you also. You already addressed...

...a question I had, which is: Where areyou normal? No, IT'S FINE EURE! Normally you know where you normallyplug into an organization. It really is anywhere because again, this istranscendent. CX Is transcendent of anyone, team or department, as we asmost of our businesses are structured today and I'm glad t at that. We'reraising up this conversation, I can, you know, get to a hundred episodes ofthe show and continue to grow the audience and they're still like we're.Just barely scratching the surface, but what do you normally see? Maybe from apractitioners point of view, no matter whether they're doing a small scale ora large scale project? Where are some tips there in terms of building thattrust generating that Byan, maybe proving some of that Roy and likeconsistently managing up selling up in a way that is not too cumbersome?Obviously, cultures are different, so I'm asking a really hard question foruniform, but any any tips you have around this tod be awesome, there's a lot. So let me just start with the mostobvious one, especially on the experience side. Wejust did a podcast on this interly the today. Actually, so I'm Gon, no I'mgoing to lead with it, but having a survey. That's too long. So if you are asking a customer to fillout a fivepage survey with CSET and a hundred questions like you're trying to make the experiencebetter but in fact you're actually probably producing something, that'seven worse than your intended result of the survey, which is a terribleexperience to fill up. That thing, that's a short one right. So, let'sjust everybody knows that Rwehate long service move on, don't don't send a afibe. PITC service is not something you should do. Number two is not focusereon action so again back to that point of you're not running Deda for analysis,you're running Deda, to address customer issues, customer problems andintegrate those and better your business as a result. So I think wherea lot of those practiconis go wrong, is they get this data theyrun a bunch oflike statistical analysis and they try to feed up? This is what they're sayingand before like by the time you do that to the sea level. It's probably like aweek later, it's to let you gotta, you got Ta, take the feed back acting realtime, faup with yheur customers. Do everything you can to resall theirissues or ask HIMG for referrals if they'repromoters, but then report back to the sea level and say hey. This is what wedid as a result of the feedback, and this is kind of what we'r getting outof it. So if you have a referal program, you can actually tie that revenuedirected to your experience program again, Askyong for referal tying it torevenue in your system, keeping that tally of we generated a hundredthousand dollars from referral business from this experience program. So it'shaming back to that disconnect and I keep coming back that even N, whereit's toteally, if you're having the right conversations at the sea level,you should be saying we generated a hundred thousand dollars of revenuefrom referrals this quarter. From this experience program and by the way ourNPS went from my fiy to sixty five, that's the order. You should have thatdiscussion and it's not the other way. Arand. It's not saying we have a greatNPS court, not saying our health score is fifty. I mean the CIIS GOINGNAbelike, all right, great, what's health corn, what do I care? So I think focuson the right thing is as really, if I could do it at a high level, focus onthe right things and honestly, the other. The final piece on maybe andjust on this pieceis not distributing the Dida widely enough.So, for example, we talked about customer success and the thing about Cs, and I think they'vedone a ton to further the space for sure, and I Kdon't really insensitiveabout this. I don't want to knock them in anyway, because I think they'redoing a great job and making companies focus on the right things, but justfundamentally a at a departmental level. If you are relying on the customerSuccess Department to run your experience program, you're going toCrita Sila with that Dita and so again, if, if I was a practitioner, I wouldtry to make that Dida as widely available as possible, but make itrelevant. That's that's another really big mess by these guys is that theyjust think that kick out the score and that's all people care about now makeit relevant so like if you're a sales...

...wrap. You want to give that sales rup adashboard that tracks their top fifteen accounts, give them feedbackspecifically on each one of those cats, tell them what they should do forfollow. BACTIONS, be prescriptive. That's really hard to do for a lot oforganizations, but if you get, there is generally a very, very good thing forthe bottom line. Again, you want to create that great experience, but youalso want to tie to business outcomes and that's hard for a lot of Companiswrougout their head around. It's providing that relevant did at the theright spot in the organization yeah, so many challenges in there. The first isgetting the data coordinated, which is obviously something that you've builtan entire business around doing O, which wit I'm sure you have competitorsin the space as well, which speaks to the challenge of that and Weh. You knowI'm sure, for people who are listening, especially depending on the thematurity of your company, the maturity of your data culture, appropriatelevels of data literacy in these various seats in the organizationassuming most of thats put together, I don't think a lot of what you're sayingwould be crazy, heavy lift, but for the rest ofus that are somewhere short and some of those capacities you know used Y. myhead is just binning thinking about trying to map revenue to some of thethings that we're doing, and it's obviously very challenging what are from again the the gap around. Maybewhat practitioners want right, let's go back to a customer, centric cultureright, that's something that something maybe you might hear out of the SESweda. We have a customer, Centri culture, we're very customer, centricwhor. We want to be more customer centric. I think o the front lines iswhere it really obviously comes to life, because that's where the most contactis so have you quantified in any way like ora scene, a project? That's around a customer, centric culture and beingable to report that up in an effective manner, kind of along the lines of whatyou already shared with us. Definitely so, and this kind of reallygoes after the culture pis. Honestly- and that's that's really- I would add this to your previousquestion. Actually one of the biggest challenges is like getting the rightculture in place to make this success and I think, listen to your podcast. A lot of peopletalk about this and it's true because it is a hard thing to do, and it takesa very I hit to say the word, but politically sabvage, champion of theprogram to operate throughout the departments because honously whatyou're doing you're providing direct feedback that man put thesefrontline people in trouble right like if a customer had an issue and they'renot happy, and it's tied directly to that frontline person, what's theirincentive to buy him to this program if they know that could potentially getthem in trouble or whatever it is right. So you really have to create that thatsafe environment or that the culture of continuous feedback lips with thatcustomer. In order for that to be really successful, because the lastthing you want to do is roll this out and then have again that front linejust really despised the program not by end. So it takes a very courageous championpolitically savvy that can operate throughout the departments, but ittakes trannic and it takes empathy at the champion level at the sea level atthe frontline level. I think it really comes down to putting the things inplace that they need to be successful. So a lot of our customers have greatstories around this, but one of them is really h w one of myactually his name's carry, and he is a previouscustomer, so we actually signed them up as a customer and he ended up coming tocustomer Gidge and Hes now vpof our program and Egitation a yeah. It wasgreat it's a cool story right, but he set up a program where there wasmonthly contests. There was recognition, there was incentive to go abob andbeyond and the way he did that is he systematized the process and trendentire frontline stoff. You went on...

...side, it was the first person there totalk about. This is what we're doing. This is why it's important. This is whyou should care. He built an amazing training Paim, and he comes from agreat background of training of he did a lot of the training for contenerstore. He did a lot of the tranding for game. Stop. So really it takes atalented trander to make sure that everybody understands why we're doingthis. You need a launch event where everybody gets behind it. Maybe eveninternal brand we'e seen that work really well with our customers to islike customer care. initiativeor like we have a loveur counts, that's ourkind of internal brand for a program that goes a long way and having thatexperience tied to like maybe your courte values, or something like that.It's it's super powerful to really bed that in your organization, becausethen everybody buys them but know why they're doing it, that's not a questionanymore, and they want to do it. They want to go above and beyond. You can'tjust can't force people to do anything. You have to make them believe if youhave to get that emotional tie to the program in order for them to reallygive them, give it their best, and I think that's that's where we see thedifference between a good program and a great program man, and that I can absolutely see it.It rins me of a conversation we had on this show with Chris Wallas. He worksat a consultancy, called interview, group Inner Interview and he helpsbridge that gap and great internal campaigns and training and educationand, like the sustained campaign with multiple touchpoints and of course, wecalled that one marketing to your employees, not just your customers,because that's what it takes it so interesting and hearing you deliverthat response. I just kept thinking. You know, okay. This is why you need adedicated resource, whether it's an individual or a team, because that'snot a parttime job. No Ni like that's, not a Oh and I'll, also do that as likefifteen percent of my job, because whatever I mean it can, I can see thesecharacteristics. I really like the way you ran down some of thecharacteristics you're looking for. You definitely need to be able to move in asavvy way from executive meetings to CS meetings tosales meeting and marketing meetings to create a culture where you can behonest with one another use the word safe. I think that's a really good wordthat I think everyone can understand it's safe to be who you are to try yourhardest and to fail at it and not feel threatened by it, because we're all inthis together you're a hundred percent right about this idea of creating thecognitive and emotional buyin of why? Why does this matter? Why me like asense of purpose, because we all know that sense of purpose is what helps uspersevere through hard, difficult or confusing things, and I know all of us.You know whether you're listening and you're, an assass company or no matterwhat business you're in I'm certain that everyone listening canthink of a program that was launchd it one of the companies that they were atat some point in their career where it was like it was either Doa because youknow not again right. This is the fourth one for trying to her the past.You know nine Mohive a new consultant, so we have a new thing or something or you know it's launched, and it'sjust one person's mission and no one ever buys in because that whole stepwas missed. It's just really really painful yeah. It reminds me of one ofour customers that his name is Louise and he works for Anaser Bush shout outto Louis, but he did a small poc with thus right, so he needed to prove theconcept and so wedid a small measurement of one of the countries andthen what he did is he took that POC Deta and went from country to countryto country to country I mean I think he hit up like thirty countries. He did aworld tour, presenting this Dida to not only sea levels but like the frontlinepeople and say wow. Isn't this interesting whyl? I wasn't thisinteresting. Look at this amazing date. I wouldn't you like the same data. WhatI mean abot like politically savvy, but also like a champion like somebody,that's going to take this on their back and you're right. When you say it's nota parttime thing. Th He was a hundred...

...percent dedicated to make this thing arealty, and he anthat was a global program and Han hasher bushis. Obviously, this massive company right he got bought it byingfrom every single country, division at Enhiser, Bush and the corporate levelby doing this kind of world Tor- and this was his job for like two years andwe rolled out globally with this guys, but it was also that wouldn't have happened withoutLouise, like that. That was a special guy that spent a ton of time because hebelieved in what this brought to the organization and if you're passionateabout something like that, I mean people will buy andto it. You just needto make the rounds. And again it's not your point of like. I want to do this,so this is what we're going to be doing that doesn't work like you got ta youhave to make the rounds, you have to shake hands, you have to case bakiesand it's a political maneuver and a lot of companies. Just don't have thatchampion and that's when again one of the million ways these things can fail.If you don't have that that Passionat Chipin, this can be really tough yeah.I love your call to make the rounds. I mean. That's where you that's, whereyou figure out, I mean you, probably have some sense of generically.Speaking Personas, you know the various stake holders involved in what theirmotivations are and what's going to light them up and what theirparticipation needs to look like Ou, you might have three of those you mighthave thirty of those, but making the rounds is how you really dial that INS,just like talking to your customers, no matter what role you're in in theorganization like that's how you close the gap between what you think what youexpect or what you're seeing in a spreadsheet and what is actuallyhappening is like that. You can't, I love the call to make the rounds. Ithink it's exactly right. We don't have time to go all in on thisthing, but you shared with me in advance of the call- and you alreadymentioned it once this NPS and CX benchmark report- that you did withsome folks at Mit. You did it at at customer gauge and it draws this linebetween and I because I just think this is really important. You draw this linebetween traditiool NPS and traditional NPS activities, which you describe asmeasure and act right like we got the score. We got this feedback and nowwe're going to do something about it to, and this has been a theme in theconversation all along, so this is going to be kind of reinforcing some ofthe points you've already made, perhaps- and you know in a little closed piecehere so versus traditional NPS- you set up monetized NPS as an approach and asa set of activities, and that is measure act and and grow. Can you justgive a good pass on that to really reinforce maybe the shortcomings of NPSas it's been done in a traditional way? Yeah. So and again, it's tough becausewe love NPS. We if you look back yeah an you're talking about using it moreand getting more value out of it yeah. I know I know, but it's so difficultfrom, like the Markete standpornt to say you know, T NPS isn't enoughanymork, because we we're so I mean my CEO as good friends with Fred Ri Calde,the fater of NPS, but what we found is when companies isjust relying on PS, it's again, tough to make that connection to that revenueline and really focus on the things that are important. If you focus on thescore and a lot of companies do and a lot of companies do just focusing thescore: What ends up happenings: Yore, just measuring and the next logicalquestion from sea level. Exact is great, our scuore Wen oup. What does that meanright? And so how do you answer that? If you don'treally know what that meas yeah, I think itmight be a leading indicator of retention. Sure that's the TOK trackright! That's what fried laid out an the ultimate question, the one number Ithe grow, but our Dita just shows that there's so much discrepancy in the waythese programs are run that it's not always the kiss. So what we've done iswe've suggested that there is a new way to do it, which is taking NPS and tyingit to revenue, which again means if you...

...get a score for an account, how muchrevenue does that bring in, but also making sure your program is embeddedwith other activities. Like again, that example use about the salesperson, getthem the information they need to. UPSOL N crosscell Ti Tor ExperienceProgram as a result of their feedback from that account or if you have a promoter command, makesure that they get the referral offer right, give them a Tirin your referalprogram with experience program, these upselle Crossell Erfurrals, these threesmall things go a very long way to tie an Roy or a revenue number to yourexperience program. Again, if you do that, that's what we consideredmonetizing that promoter, our new thing that we're we've really an we've beenevolving over the last five years since o've been here started with MPs. Sothen went to monotize n that promoter with that report and Tnow we're onaccounter experience, which it's like it's Monetizedn that promoter we stilltie everything n the revenue. But it's like you need those additional datapoints, especially as companies ifvolve. They transform digitally. You need someother signals and again to original point, sometimes absence the signal wismore important than these signals coming in so it's kind of evolved sincethen, but the real, the core of it, is still there which is Monetoz in apromoter. But that's really just making your call for these organizations to buy an NPS but tie to revenue tied toour Ali Tie to upside Crossall, referral activity and report on that toyour Sealal, because that's our data with mit shows that if you do that, yougrow faster than your your competition. You grow faster than everybody else.That's doing that type of just basicl onps activity. If you tie to growthactivities like upsod cross overforalse, it's going to result and a fastergrowth jectory for your company, fantastic and for those who arelistening. That is a good passage to click that sixty second or thirty.Second back button take another pass. That is what we need to be doing withNPS if we want to a sustain and continue to get resources for ourprograms as tying it to revenue, making it easy to report up and showing peoplethe numbers they actually care about. You know it's hard to get. You know ifyou don't know anything about it's hard to get excited about a health score andNPS score, and you know, and then you got to anchor it to like where was itlast week or last month or last year, and how did we move it? This is whereit's at, because everyone understands revenue. You are a selfdescribedcustomer experience, Addovocate prer your headline in linked in in a momentof advocacy here. Where do we need to go with CX overall, like where do youfeel like? We are? What are you so excited about within CX, and maybewhere are we going with it at kind of a high level? Yeah? I think I'm excited. I think this is one of themost exciting times. TOF Bein sex right now, so just seeing it grow over thelast five years. Even is astonishing, so I've been in the space for about. Ithink it's eight or nine years now. I ran in basically the SX program for CTBank back in the day, and I think what's happening right now is customer.Success is having kind of a big moment right now, where I think everybody'srealizing, especially in Sass that, with the whole global situation, peopleneed to focus on their customer basis. They need to focus on their campuses,that's more important than ever for a lot of companies, because a lot of acquisition pipelines dried upduring covid and and it's not the worst thing that happen during that period.Obviously, but it is a result of what happened so a lot of people lookedinward and made sure that they could grow their acampuses to the best theirability. So I think it's going to take a definitely a more important seat movingforward. I almost think that it's going to be a leadingdifferentiator for a lot of companies, like I, I think, the the days of growthat all costs and spending two hundred thousand dollars on Basebook as therequire new business. I think those days are gone. I think you know wemight have some lingering effect there, but you can see the Basebuk boydcatgoing on. I think experience in customerexperience would be the new growth lover for organizations they're, goingto realize that if they spend the...

...amount of effort and experiences andcreating experiences that they're doing acquiring new customers, it will besignificant growth at a much much cheaper cost, and I just don't thinksome of these larger companies are there that they don't really realizethat they have a lot of what they are to need built into e the experiences ortheir customer Biss. So I think you know next five. Ten Years I fullyexpect that companies are going to best heppily. In this thing, I fully expectthat it will be more than a part time role.I think every company should have a full time position dedicated to the account or customerexperience. I think customer success not to keep ralling on them, but Ithink that they will need to figure out a way to go wider. The organization, Ithink that's going to be something that can figure out. I think, there's a lotof talented people in CS. I just think that there's a trend that I've beenseeing in Sas where people are actually rebelling against the whole customersuccess role in general and they're, going back to relationship managers,I've seen that at a couple companies locally in Boston, so I think continuing to prove thedilue on CS is important. But again, if you tie tothat revenue, if you tie to the ry there will be a bred future foreverybody involved. I love it. It's just it's in when I think about it, andthat was awesome. Thank you for sharing that R. When I think about that, I justthink it's just not only obviously better for customers when you approachbusiness. That way, it's also so much more satisfying for employees. I you'rejust doing it just seems like a move toward doing the right things, theright way and really focusing on what we want, which is satisfied, customers,no one, no one. I know that serious about their career is interested inbeing in a Turnin burn environment, and so I like that this is a mainstreamconversation because we're all going to get all going to get better for it.This has been awesome if you're listening to this conversation with Eand Luckand you've enjoyed it. I've got a couple more that I know you will,like I'm thinking of episode. Thirty six with Sarah Toms She's, thecofounder and Executive Director of the Wharton Interactive at, of course, atthe Warton School at University of Pennsylvania, and that one I thought ofthat one for this conversation, because their definition of customer centricityin the customer, centricity playbook she wrote with one of our colleaguesWilli, focuses on lifetime value, so you know we're. Typically, we think ofcustomer centricity. Is this kind of soft sided thing she's like it isliketime value those two were inseparable, and so that's Sarah townson episode. Thirty, six, the financial side of CX, which customers should you,invest in and then more recently Ben Smith, well he's a CX ANCs designer andstrategist, and we called that one restoring the human factor to fulfillthe big cxtreame. He also sees a CX gap and we do talk kind of like nuts andbolts. What does this look like inside an organization? That's been Smith.Well, on episode, sixty six- and I already mentioned Chris WallaceMarketing Tyour employees, not just your customers, that one was episode.Seventy three. So this is an ongoing conversation. Everyone is unique andnuance. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise here en before I let yougo, though. I've got a couple opportunities, chury personalcuriosities and opportunities for you to kind of give shouts out to peopleind companies that you respect so first thank er mentioned someodyh's, had apositive impact on your life or your career and then give a shout out to abrand or a company that you really respect for the experience that theydeliver for you as a customer yeah. So the person I would say, is my mentor.Yani he's actually my uncle, but he is a I describe as an old school og. Heworked for son Microsystems Hewas, the GP of marking in sales globally thereand their headi, so he's been a just amazing resource for me from a markenystandpoint, but also he was a big CX guy. Before I was big, I mean the hereally cared about the experience he was criating from the Bolth, Marketnand Sallside. So again, shouting out...

Ya'ani IA've done this before, but Ithink I cannot repar that guy enough for what he's done for me. So again,mentorship is super super important in this world. I definitely recommendeverybody have somebody like that in their life. The brand said I think Imean I could go for the obvious ones, like Apple Andmazon, all tat crap, butI think one of the more interesting ones that I've come across in the lastyou know year or so, is this company called swit water? U D! They are amusician kind of ter, a music manufacturer that the ECOMMERCE theysell. Guitars all that stuff, I'm a musician, but the take a reallyinteresting approach. Most other companies out there like Guitar Center.They don't have a dedicated relationship manager. They basicallyare like here. This is what we got take it Sweetwateris, really interestingwhere they have this relationship manager. That is reaching out to me andit's not like corporate brand. It's like this random guys, temes press themand he'll hit me up and when, like based off Fon, my past purchase history.He knows I like fender. He knows I like gips and stuff and t e help. Bascalysaid head, you see this new thing. They released check it out. Here I wasthinking of you. You know beause y about this Blah Blah Blah is reallypersonalized. It must be really hard to do a scale, so I'm guessing they have agood amount of relationship managers on on staff and they have a low amount ofaccounts, but not only that the product and like the experience that coreateevery time I get a package from them, they send a little bag of candy. So mykids is like you can imagine right like they want ore, more stuff, yeah.Exactly so they're literally heading me up like when are we getting somethingeuse? And I obviously I have to run it by the wife, but it's so cool because I, like everybody,gets excited about it. I'm excited because I get my music hear. The kidsare excited because o the candy and it's just it's such an amazing thing,they've created, and they probably I think they know it, but they maybedon't know the level of experience thate created for me and my family, but it's a stupid small thing, and but Icould go on a rent about everything else. They do, but it's they just dosuch a great job about being personalized and human and like a kindof gigantic commerce, type whenit's good. It's so awesome. It'ssuch a great example of human to human at scale. It reminds me I don't know ifyou've read Matt, Sueezy's context, marketing revolution or seen him speakor present, but he loves to share a similar story about the gearheads atback Countrycom, which is similar except it's outdoor gear. But it's areally it's a real person. I think his guys Wesley and somehow they found awayacross thousands and thousands and thousands of customers to still createthis human to human experience. That will certainly- and I'm sure, they'remeasuring it, as you would advocate, certainly be able to look at you e and luck as someone whois engaged with this program and know that your average spend with them isover twice as long a period and some x factor some multiple of revenue andthere's no question that it pays off and- and I love that they take care todo it not just with smart trittered stuff like an Amazon, would do, butwith a real human being, which just brings it all to life. It's crazy. Imean I used to shop a Guitar Sen arused to shop at all of his random places.Whereever had the best proce right now. I I I know I'm getting the best price,because this guy also gives me special deals, but I literally sent him inhemail today is like hey. What do you think about this Blah Blah Blah? I meanit's like I hit to say, because it's kind of like pathetic but he's my buddyhe's like my gear buddy, where he I literally run ideas by Hem, he's atrusted adviser and that's, I think, exactly what they set out to do, butit's so effective because is personalized. It's specific to me getslike what I what I need in my arsenal of crap musically. So it's really coolman. I think it's one of the better brands ofve run across that I've doneit successfully super powerful great example. I've enjoyed this conversationvery much eand. I know listeners will to if someone wants to follow up withyou or they want to connect with customer gauge wherere some places youwould send people who have listened to...

...our conversation. This far yeah coursecheck me out on Linkedin, I'm pretty active on there, usually and thenobviously customer Gagecom, which you can obviously check out. We have a tonof SX content there more so than I think you guys could ever consume. Wehave over like twenty e books and a ton of blogs ditting back ten years, and wehave a whole academy now that we're launching and relaunching with coursesand certifications, it's really cool to check that out and obviously, if you're,a marketer listening go to Markin stravegycom for the latest marketingtips and tricks awesome. If you are listening, you can always visitBombomcom podcast I'll round up these things, I'll drop links into the blogpost. You can see some of the video clips from the conversation and, ofcourse, we have the fully ambedded audio there. So if you want to connectwith en all those links will be up act, O bombom com, slash podcast and, ofcourse you can spellet exactly as it sounds, Sheck im out, I'm linked inthanks, so much EAN. This set then really pleasure to bher clearcommunication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of thebenefits of adding video to the messages your sending every day. It'seasy to do with just a little guidance to pick up the official book.Rehumanize your business, how personal videos, accelerate sales and improvecustomer experience? Learn more in order today at Bombamcom Bock, that'sbomb, vombcom fuck, thanks for listening to the customer experience.podcast remember the single most important thing you can do today is tocreate and deliver a better experience for your customers, continue. Learningthe latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favoritepodcast player, or visit Bombomcom podcast.

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