The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 125 · 1 year ago

125. A Year From Now, You’ll Wish You Began Today w/ Joseph Jaffe

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You want to level up your customer experience to customer obsession, but how?

Get started now. In a year’s time, you’ll wish you started today.

In this episode, I interview Joseph Jaffe, host of CoronaTV and Admiral/Co-Founder at The HMS Beagle, about the origins of his show and everything he’s learned along the way.

Joseph and I discuss:

- The availability heuristic (things that are harder to measure are the more important)

- How to implement customer obsession as a host

- The origin story for CoronaTV

- The art of having real conversations encapsulates entrepreneurship

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Watch CoronaTV

- Joseph wrote Flip the Funnel

- Joseph is also on Twitter

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

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I'm the worst listening in the world, but just the ability to stay silent and listen. You know, God Gut us two, he has one mouth. Let us use that indirect proportion. That's how I've implemented custom experience. With custom obsession. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Nearly a year ago, is the coronavirus began to spread around the globe, Corona TV came to life. That's right, today's guest started a live, daily streaming show in response to the pandemic. So we're going to learn a little bit of the how and why behind it, because you might be thinking about starting or improving your own show. He's hosted on Corona Tiv. Several guests from the customer experience podcast, including Brittany Hodak, David Merriman, Scott Matthew sweezy and, coming soon, Mark Shaffer, as well as marketing grates like Mitch Joel, Jay Bear, Karyoshegor gone and Chris Brogan. He's a marketing great himself and the author of five books, including built to suck and flip the funnel. Way Back on episode four of this show, he and I talked at length about built to suck in particular, and I'm please to have them back for episode one hundred and Twenty Five. Here, Joseph Jaffe, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Well, I feel like I should be congratulating you. Forget about you talking about me. Maybe we should reverse the roles. So I was I was number four, yeah, and now in one hundred and twenty five, finally enough. By the way, I've started to do that now. When I actually introduce a guest, I put a number next to their name to signify where they are in the sequence, because I want them to realize that they're part of this unfolding story, in this journey, and it's not episode number, it's guests number, because you know I'm celebrating them as opposed to interesting. Yeah, so you know, number four, I'm proud to welcome you back as guest number four. I again. I will I will treasure that number for the rest of my life. That's that's really fun and it was. It was super kind of you. I mean, when I reached out to have you on the show a this show did not exist, like there were no you know, I think we recorded six or eight of them minimum before we actually release the show, and you were kind enough to give me an hour of your time. I had read several of your books as really excited, like I felt like I knew who you were. You were very early with video, you were very early with podcasting, as I mentioned, you had written several books and so I felt very familiar with you and I was excited to have a conversation with you. Just really kind of you to spend time with me, who you did not know, on a show that didn't exist at the time. I want to tell you that I spoke to someone the other day and I said, I actually just almost quote for Batim. I said, if I am fortunate enough and privileged enough to end up whether manager or an agent, which I've never had. You know, I've never had anyway, I've never had a book agent. I'm I've done everything myself, but if I do, I will give them one brief and one brief only, which is if ever someone approaches you for me to come on their show or starting out or their podcast, and you refuse them, I will fire you on the spot. You know, it is always been my pledge and my commitment to help anyone looking to get into podcasting, streaming, blogging and be on their show. I don't care. I will never ask them what their viewership is, I will never ask them what their metrics are. It's just the right thing to do, I feel. And by the way, you know you never know what will happen. Right. This is about paying it for, this is about Karma, but it's really not machiavelian in any way. It's just, you know, this to me is the fundamental, you know, tenant of social media, of community, you know,...

...of digital the ability to connect people that ordinarily would never have been connected. I use the same approach now when I'm looking for guests for my show. I just, you know, approach them on twitter or see if I can find the email address or, you know, go to their website and and you know what, most will say no, but some will say yes. James Rollins, who's my favorite author in the world, said yes any come on the show and he was just a cool, relaxed, pragmatic, kind awesome person. So you know, and that, by the way, is one of the I don't even know if you planned to author question, but a lot of people ask me about guest relations and how do you do it, how do you get guess, and one of them is like, as ask you know, people are accessible, more more accessible than you think, and some of them are actually like kind. So well, that's not here that we live in. It's amazing. I mean most people make themselves available, whether it's through social a lot of people even just their email addresses are easy to get. Not that they not that everyone respond responds immediately to an email, because I'm sure they're in boxes are jammed. But, like you, I had so many people say yes and it's just simply a matter of asking. And you offered a couple really important things there. You said connection. I think relationship. I mean you never know the value of the connection that you're making in the relationship that you're building in the future, not that it's really a transactional thing at all. I also so appreciate that you went to metrics, listenership, etc. Like I've I have actually approached a couple of people who I would have really liked to spend time and conversation with for the benefit of learning about their experience, and they ask those numbers and I gave them to them and they never respond and it's like Yuck, you know. I mean, like you know, there's so much tension between and it's been part because I'm spending a lot of time thinking about and even writing about this. Is The measurables in the immeasurables. We all know that the immeasurables of have a measurable value on our business. We just can't associate them necessarily, and so this kind of grimes that kind of Ro our versus Roy Conversation. You've had Ted Rubin on your show as well. So anyway, I ate. I appreciate what I'm there. So I'll just take that. I'll just take that up a notch, which is yesterday on the show. Like yesterday on the show I had Andy Chris to Dina and he discussed this idea, which are this this this philosophy called the availability heuristic. Have you ever heard of that? No, but I like the sound of it and I made that dadily work I mean no, have I right? And we what we really spoke about is, you know how many people would like hire, you know, someone like Andy to say I saw you speak three years ago and I've been waiting for the opportunity to be able to bring you in. But essentially, the availability heuristic is the fact that the things that are the easiest to measure, the metrics that are the easiest to measure, are typically and the most visible or typically the less connected to real business outcomes and goals, and the ones that are more difficult and less to measure and less visible are more aligned and more connected to, you know, profound business goals and so friends, fans, followers, all the stuff that is so easy, all those same metrics, they actually have no bearing or impact, certainly medium to long term, on the the stuff that counts. Now, why do I even bring that up? Be What, it's relevant to the conversation. But be it proves the point that you made, which is having a conversation with someone else is going to make you smarter if you are listening and if you are learning. And I look back and I almost feel like, how lucky am I to have had over a hundred and eighty conversations with people, diverse people, backgrounds, perspectives. You know, I said enjoying the conversation, which I wrote in two thousand and seven, was published in two thousand and seven. I said production is the new consumption. So whenever people ask...

...me, it's Ironic, what business books have read or recommend, I'm like none, I don't read business books. Are Right, I'm creating content, I'm actively like in it and when I research someone or when I'm talking to someone, I am learning. I don't need to read a book, even mine, even mine, you know. And so I just wanted to kind of like echo the fact that we have to be committed to the long game. We have to be committed and understand the long term impact of relationships, conversations, community generosity. I could keep going on. Yeah, really good. So Gosh, I guess I'll. I guess I'll try to hutter a little bit of the structure of the show. I love that we just got right after it and you already gave that that really nice availability here. heuristic. I kind of saw this as a conversation in three parts. I will would like to kick off on customer experience. I want to get into the show. I want to get into why you created it, kind of what we experienced today, if we join you live and when we join you live, versus what we were getting, say, six months ago, you know, perhaps a little bit about gas relations, etcetera, etceter some of the production techniques, frankly, because that's changed. And then I've got a few kind of broader theme questions that I would love to get to you if we have time, but I don't know that we will and that's perfectly fine. So I guess I'll start with customer experience. When I say that, what does that mean to you, like, what do you do? How do you define it or what characteristics might have? Well, I now use the term, which is something that I developed and then ironically found out that the term was first used by Jeff Bezos in his very first letter to shareholders, you know, titled Day One. The term is custom obsession. I don't even think customer experiences enough or good enough anymore or service or its custom obsession. But your question, how does that relate to the show? Well, you know, Steve Golfield would say to me you shouldn't be talking about the audience, you should be talking about the wood community. You should really be committing to community. So you know this whole idea of servant leadership. I am at your service, my guest. I am at your service my listener to the podcast or my viewer or people that attend and I know will get to at the aftershow, which is a unique aspect of the show. We you respect them and their time. Everything flips on its head and one of the things that I very deliberately decided very early on was that I would never make the show about myself. I would never do that. So my background is always something related to my guest. Sometimes it's their website, sometimes it's their client list, sometimes it's just you know, Dr Harry Cohn and wrote a book called be The Sun, not the salt. I had sunflowers because he talks about the heliotropic effect and you know, that mindset shift is just a vital one a lot of the you know, I love being on your show today because I get to like, you know, let verbal diarrhea take over me. But one of the biggest shifts that happened early on my wife actually like said to me, you talk too much, your verbose, your questions are too long, you don't listen and I change that very quickly. And now sometimes I'll just keep quiet until my guest is finished. If they talk for eight minutes, let them talk for eight minutes and then I will add something. And something crazy happened. People started saying to me, show, you such a good listener, you're the best listener that we and I'm like, what a CROC, I'm the worst listener in the world. But just the ability to stay silent and listen. You know, God gave us two years one mouth. Let us use that indirect proportion. That's how I've implemented custom experience with custom obsession, because I've always believed, you know,...

...everything communicates, everyone communicates, and custom experiences the sum total of every interaction. In my case it starts with my guests, it continues with the audience, the community, and it never stops. Yeah, it's really interesting. I just want to go all the way back to customer obsession where he started, which is the interesting thing about that to me is that you've moved upstream of customer experience. I think if you can culturally build an obsession in support of your customer, that a great experience is going to be the natural outcome. Of it and it's so funny. I mean, you know, one of the things I've been thinking a lot about, and it's related to this idea that you just do the right thing. You jump into conversation, you treat people as community, which begs co creation and engagement, rather than I made something here, go consume it. That we're going to, you know, create something together in the content is just part of that process. You've moved upstream of customer experience and let that become a natural outcome, as opposed to, you know, so many of us think about it an approach it traditionally like we approach other projects and campaigns and things we want to create and distribute, which is what do we want to make? How are we going to make it? How are we going to know that we've made it properly? How do we know that people like it? Iterate? You know that like that still process, you know. You know fundamentally that translates into the fact that the show is alive and that people can comment and be on the show. And there are two aspects to it. I'm and you know, it's a sixty minute live show every day at twelve noon eastern standard time, and then a thirty minute after show on Zoom where you can actually interact live with myself and the guest and actually become part of the show. And often, often times in that off to show, I just put my mic on Mute and just let people talk. I don't need you know, I always said, like even when I wrote going back to again join the conversation. I said, you know, are you life of the party? Are Your Party pooper or your party crasher? You know, a party animal, like this whole idea, like if you if you throw a party, if you host a party, do you eaves drop on all your guests? Do you tell them what to talk about? Do you have to be a part of every conversation? Do you have to say, okay, you know Ethan, and you know and and you know and John, welcome to my party. Let me give you a couple of topics to talk about it would you just let him talk. You know, and and so that is the officer show. But I feel like the way that you respect someone's time is, well, it's two things. One it's recognition and valid it's recognition and validation, and so just the ability to say, Oh, look, this one's here and and thank you for wishing me happy birthday or happy anniversary. It makes for a very different show and one of the things I've been acutely aware of, as I you know, for me, Corona TV is the best of the old with the best of the new. So can I put on a professional show? Can I be a great interviewer, you know, aligned with Tim Ferris and Howard Stern and format kin to bill mar can I execute that, but still do that in a way that is completely fresh, original, innovative and respects who I am, which is born, not born in but but matured and growing through this social media world? And I believe the answer is yes, and by doing that I can create something that isn't the late show or the tonight show or last week tonight, but something that will be unique, original and a keyword which is differentiated. Go back to the beginning. So go back to March two thousand and twenty, and you know what was going on for you and when, like how long had the seed been planted for doing a show like this, and then what was the spark?...

That was? Okay, I gout. Now's the time I got to do this. So first of all, I've ought it's been a bucket list item for me to have a show to be on. It's not really about being on television, but I actually always fundamentally felt that marketing, custom experience, everything that we do, is so under represented on video and and specifically television. You know, this industry that is almost a trillion dollars globally right, everything associated with marketing, internal, external, etc. We don't have one show. There's not one show that actually exists on television to talk about it. There's there are some business channels like CNBC way of Cheddar now, but no one really really is a voice for for creativity, for culture, for for marketing right, for branding and and maybe that's just the Geek in me, because I really you know, I'd Fillip Cottlo on my show. I really, really love the theory in the academic side, the historical side of my business, but also believe marketing is fundamentally challenged right now and and many respects broken in many places. But here's the story and I'll tell it to is as succinctly as I can. I'm in South Africa visiting my mom. She's thankfully doing well, but but it's almost five years into cancer which hopefully will continue to be a chronic managed, you know, disease. And while I'm there I'm giving a presentation. I try and double up while I'm there as well, and I've been going two to three times a year, so traveling from the US. Thankfully my family has been very supportive for me to see her. It's about ten minutes before I go on stage and my phone rings. I pick up the phone. It's my wife telling me she has covid. Imagine that ten minutes, for this is March ten, March eleven. I fly out, get back, landing in London, switch on my phone, see there's a travel ban in place. Go what the hell am I going to get back? Realize yes, I am. I get back, I'm driving back to Westport on the I ninety five. She was getting tested that day in Greenwich. She did have covid. She's fine, thankfully, you know. And I was like realized I was actually passing her. Got Back immediately, went and started self isolating on a different floor, different room in the house, and I don't remember the moment, but there was certainly no let's start a show. I was like, let me just go to facebook and do a facebook live and try and make dear diary capture this moment. I have that first video. That's the beauty of it. The next day I decided to do another one. The next week I went actually for a covid test. There were available. I was negative and I kind of facebook lived driving back from the test. The next week I started playing around with zoom and experimenting, Sharing Screen and doing a few things. One week later, one week later, this is from March sixteen to March twenty seven, I was talking to my sister, who is she lives in London. She's an entrepreneur. She has a spinning studio. They essentially told her she had to like stop doing in person classes. Her quote was I'll never forget it. She said I knew that if I close my doors I would close them for good. So she pivoted a business, put all her bikes in her in a uhaw, emailed custom experience right emailed her best clients. Who wants to bike? Everyone wanted to buy. I said, why didn't you come on the show and and I'll interview you. WHO CARES ABOUT NEPOTISM? You've got a great story. She was guest number one. By the way. She had covid at the time as well. So she had covid. Was On my show, guest number one, my sister, my wife, my mother, and here we are a hundred and eighty five episodes later. And on top of that, I left out a huge part of this, which is the discovery of streaming. Old which is this platform, this...

...piece of software has changed my life. Zoom was not zoom was not the best platform to do this live, but stream odd has changed my life. But I just want to say one more thing. Every day my mother watches my show and every day my motherinlaw watches my show and it's just been the most beautiful thing that a my mother says to me for the first time, I know what you do for a living. But second of all, how we've, how the show is connected us, that every day she sees her son and I can put a comment on screen down him. My Mom's watching. Hope you know. So so what really happened even was there was never a business plan, there was never a grand vision other than just do it, other than put your head down and figure it out and try something new and, if it works, do more of it and if it doesn't, change cause. But soon enough, I realize that's that I had something special and I would tell you just two little anecdotes. One is John Lawson, facebook friend. One day I'm just looking at his live stream. Suddenly, you know, you early on in this pandemic, a lot of people started streaming. For some you know, like that was stuck at home. What were they going to do? And I just reached out to him and I'm like like, dude, like, how did you do that? How did you do the picture and picture and the crawl and the and the banner and the and guests like this is awesome. I'm using zoom. I'm like like a Doofus, and he's like, Oh, I'm using stream odd. Just the generosity. I email them later. He thought I was crazy. I said to him, did you change my life? You changed my life by being as generous and is like thanks, but I think you're a little crazy, you know. So the other thing that happened was streaming. Odd has an amazing community through facebook right, just a message board. It works well. Be To be, to be best practice. And one day just someone else who was on stream lode said Hey, I'm short of a guest. Anyone want to come on my show? Well, I was on his show that night and I heard one insight from another guest, which was, if you're not going to do this for two years, if you're not going to commit to streaming in particular for two years, come hello high water, no matter what, stop now. And I said, you know what I mean. I'm going to put my head down. I'm not going to worry about numbers, I'm not going to worry about metrics. Am I going to worry about monetization. Everyone's going to ask me those questions. Are Answer them or I'll push back. But for two years I am going to perfect my craft and my formula. NOWs are some for one. Love what you do, be true to yourself and stay the course, and if you do, surely good things will follow. And one more thing and then I will shut up, which is I ask everyone this question. I'm going to ask you to you as well. Joe Rogan recently sold or syndicated his show, the Joe Rogan experience, to spotify right for like a hundred and fifty million or something like it. How many episodes of the show do you think he had done when he sold the show? Oh Gosh, I that's certainly a trivial question that I'm well research. I know that he saw this show. I mean I would guess hundreds, if not maybe one two hundred. So the the answers. Most people will guess three hundred, four hundred, you know, etc. The answer was was around one fifteen hundred. So fill there, I guess. Well, you should. You should, and you should also feel good about what you're doing, as I am about, you know, at episode roughly about two hundred, and anyone out there like my biggest advice to people out there right now is started now, because in a year's time you're going to wish you started it now today. And guess what, you know, I am ahead of you guys, because because I started it march thirteen from March sixteen. But you know what, this place for all of us in this beautiful ocean. Come on in the water is warm and that's the beauty of it. Right now, if you actually love what you do...

...or true to yourself and prepared to stay the course for two years, I mean surely good things will follow. That have to. It's inevitable. Yeah, I just want to recap a couple really key things you offered there, because I know some people have started shows and maybe I've had fits and starts on it. They didn't know what success should look like and they're maybe looking at metrics and so maybe they're giving up before they ever truly start in earnest these types of things. And so a couple things I heard from you there. One is just starting. You know, if there's been an itch in you have it again, just start, because you started streaming on facebook. Now you're on also streaming on Youtube and other places. I don't know all the places. Connect with other people. Iteration, learning, growth, and I'm going to ask you a specific question about that and just a moment. You know, joining communities, finding out who else is doing it. People are more generous than ever, I think. You know, you could have asked the I'm are quoting here for listeners the wrong question the wrong person and they would have maybe hoarded that information or ignored your question, but most people are willing to give I'm in a variety of communities where people are just offering things. As soon as people ask. They come with, you know, everything they've learned in a couple additional questions to tack on topping that's a wonderful thing about how we're living, and I'll even tie it back to where we were with guests earlier, which is the world's foremost experts on almost any topic are available to us either through produced pieces like videos and podcasts and books, or through direct communication on social or through any of the digital channels we communicate in, and so I really just wanted to echo your get started. It will get better, don't worry so much about the details, the measurements, etc. Going back to where we were right off the top of the conversation. Like it has benefits in and of itself, and really I've seen it with this show too, you know, because I do pay attention to the numbers. We are spending resources on it, and so I periodically like to give the people that give me the blessing to have these conversations and bubblish them, you know, some updates that I know they can relate to. Besides the value that it provides me, I do internal education based on these conversations. Some of IT turns into business. There's so many benefits that aren't captured in a listener or a download number on a podcast or a viewership number on a youtube video or on a live stream, and so set those things aside. So, and by the way, I don't even want to, you know, like I'm going to refrain from embarrassing you too much in terms of saying how brilliant you are at what you do and how you do it. But they're little subtleties as well. The cell is a soft cell. You give, you give before you aust before you, before you personally an ass back. So they're little things like and I see it even in the room right now, whether it's books at the back, you know, which are far enough back, far enough that I can't read them, but I'm assuming that there are yours or associated with you, as opposed to being in my face right there. There is a there is a bomb, bomb on the microphone. It's subtle, but ultimately your product is an incredible, incredible product. But you, you know, as the old saying goes, and this again came back from from one of my guests now, which is people don't in you know, investors don't invest in ideas, they invest in people, in people, in relationships, and this is, you know, this was a subject that again, it came up in the last few days as well. Tim Ferris. Tim Ferris is the example, his book, The for our work week, the book, the book, the Book was rejected twenty five times and the twenty six time he said, I'm curious to the yes he got. What is the reason that you said yes and they said no reason. But I like you and I feel like you're gonna do everything in...

...your power, with your last life breath to make this a success. I mean, if people needed any more reason to be motivated, there I mean that just demonstrates that ultimately, this is a business of found people and relationships. It's so funny, like we all know this. Intuitively, when I get in these you know what it will like. You just had me all lit up there, because I like I believe all of it, I know all of it. I know all of it intuitively, and yet, and I know everyone listening knows it intuitively. Going back to say yes, because you never know what's going to happen. Say Yes because the conversation you're going to learn something. Something I say about hosting this podcast to echo something you said probably fifteen minutes ago. This is I I regard this as a master's degree that you cannot buy. I'm talking with people who are professionals, with all kinds of as you said, all kinds of perspectives, all kinds of backgrounds. I'm learning a ton in this. It doesn't exist anywhere else, like I couldn't get this anywhere else. And yet it's it's it's timely, it's relevant and it's from the source. And so they're just and yet we're so afraid to do things that we can't measure. I'm going to get back to the show a minute in particular. So I observe it as kind of a talk show that's with produced, opens and closes segments like the seed, that Soliloquy off the top, the aftershow, which you already mentioned, which is much more casually and loose and interesting. It's not more interesting, I mean it's interesting that it exists and it's a typically interesting conversations, especially because you just let him go. Titles, graphics, lower thirds, which you mentioned, shoutouts on people's Birthdays, which I assume you're picking up on Linkedin and facebook, which make them highly available, teases to upcoming guests and shows. Typically would like over the shoulder graphics. You it, as you mentioned. You Change Your backgrounds to reflect the topic of the show or the nature or the background of the guest, live comments and call outs. You're engaging with the audiences the show goes on. You can call them up with graphics, and so I just offer that to people who have haven't seen the show, which you can do by going to corona TV that show and it redirects to youtube and again it's live every day at New Eastern, nine Pacific and talk to me a little. Already mentioned stream yard and we don't need to get all into the weeds on it because there are tons of blog posts on these types of things and communities people can ask. But from that initial, you know, first ten or twenty shows, to what someone would get if they watched it today, just provide a couple highlights on that iterative path for you as someone who is what basically producing the whole thing yourself. You know, I would say the first guest was was fundamental, because bringing on a guest and making it about a guest by definition, shows not about me anymore. Now one might argue that if I had made it about me, that would have been great. I probably would have fifty virtual speaking gigs, you know, lined up with two thousand and twenty one at the moment. I probably have zero. I don't even know. Maybe I have, maybe I don't. I haven't changed my website. I haven't tried to become the world's greatest virtual speaker. I don't want to be a virtual speaker. I want to be a real speaker. I want to have real conversation stations. It took me in a different direction and so I decided to put all of money to be to go all in on this format. So it didn't start off as a talk show. I like the way you're interpreting it. By the way, everyone should interpret it the way they want to and internalize it. Someone said it's a variety show for the modern era. I like that too. You know, for me it's all about firsts. You never forget the first ride, you never forget the first time. So for me I loved the seated Soliloquy. I don't even remember when the first one is, but I'm going to go back and find it. I don't remember. I'm slowly starting to organize it and I'll tell you why in a moment. But now, okay, let me just stop there for a second. I'll talk about the SEATD Soliloquy. Why does the seated soliloquy exist or because most talk show...

...hosts have a monolog at the beginning. Strategically it's the only time the show is about me. It's the only time I'm I'm subtly reminding people that I know a thing or two, that I've written a few books, that that I'm not just an interviewer. But oftentimes, like on this like with you today, I'm the guest as well. But even the Soliloquy is actually not about me. So you know, today I've Christina de Jacoma, who describes herself, you know, as a practical philosopher and she talks about leadership, and so I'm talking about leadership over the next four years in the US, and I'm saying this is not a political post, but he has my thoughts about what she considers to be a great leader. So even the Soliloquy is is a hat tip to her and it becomes a nice breaker and if she's enthralled by it, or maybe she disagrees with it, the first thing is she's going to respond by going by the way in your Soliloquy, as a couple of things I take issue with or there's something you said that made me think blah, Blah Blah. So already I've created a bridge. But there's one final thing, and the point I'm trying to make here, is oftentimes executive execution actually trump's strategy, which is the most heretical thing I've ever said in my life. You've certainly have right heredical things relative to the status but quite in a way, because as the most because I'm a strategist, you know, I'm that is my whole life and I'm sometimes just doing it is so much better than overthinking it. It's when, you know, in this came from one of my guests as well, gut an intuition, trump's you know, the brain talking you out of an idea and overthinking and creating doubt. But here's the Soliloquy. I turned around. I said, you know, everyone's publishing books and putting books out and I need to think about a book, and you know and I but more importantly, I haven't been writing. I need to write and sometimes I joe. Do you realize that, like you have maybe three books if you just took your seated soliloquies and published them every day, three hundred and fifty two four hundred words. That are a commentary on the times we're living in, on things that are happening in the world, in the news. You're related to your guest. Things about generosity, grit, adversity, failure, you know, optimism, leadership, etc. So the first's are amazing. And one more first I have to mention New Year's stream and Eve. Right, who needs Ryan seacrest? Who Needs Anderson Cooper and Andy Kohen? I did a twohour live stream with musical performances with guests, you know, dialing in the New Year. You know, my wife even came on camera and gave me a kiss at midnight. I had my planet fitness hat. I even basically said I made planet fitness the sponsor, even though they actually weren't the sponsor, like, who cares, like what are they going to do to me after the fact? But by doing that I'm showing what I'm showing potential sponsors out there what it might look like. And so the first are the things that I celebrate. And, as I said when you you know, I was so jazz by this new stream and Eve. Why? Because I created a new use case for myself, and you use case saying I can do big events, special occasions, I hadn't thought about it until just now. Super Bowl. Could do the Super Bowl. Why not, you know, have people come on, you know, jump on, jump or jumple. We even did the first night of the RNC, which actually was was was not great just because,...

...like it was just it was just to chaotic and it wasn't coordinated enough as well. But you know, experimentation is the order of the day, and so you know the evolution of it is as such that when something works, do more of it. When it doesn't work, okay well, but I want to add something. There's a very important point I'm going to contradict myself very quickly, which is just because it doesn't work today doesn't mean it won't work tomorrow. And just because it works today doesn't mean it what, it will work tomorrow. Remember that for people that are out there starting, don't give up on something prematurely. Keep mixing it up and be very, very sure when you've determined that it's not working, where you're going to kind of, you know, change course because you just might not have given it enough time. And that is the art of being an entrepreneur and that is the art of being a host right, which is half the time you're going to have listened to people's advice and take it to hot especially if you trust them and respect them and half the time, be true to yourself and stay the course. So that's kind of how it is evolved. There is one more thing that I probably should mention. The zoom after show right, which may be gated at some point. I might go to Patreon, I might tell people, Hey, listen, it's available to you for five bucks. But what has happened that's more important than that, is that what I've realized is the power of communal conversation. So one of the things that I started was I went to my zoom off to show people initially and I said, why don't you all come on a show? But that is created what I call corona community. So every Friday now is a show with five of my previous guests. So I've got two hundred guests, let's say, by the end of January. Well, what happens when you have David Meerman Scott and Mark Shafer on the same show, which we did, or Bruce Turkel, Mitch Joel and Mark Shafer on one show, which we did already? What happens when you start to bring all of these people together and now if six of us on stage at the same time. So all of this is just come through this process of opening yourself up to the universe, you know, to being able to say have a format, have a structure that is fixed but not permanent, if you will, you know that is structured, but not so structured that you can't adapt and change and morph it over time. So good to to observations. I want to make her things that you've mentioned that I want to reinforce. The first is related to not giving up too soon, which is an echo of the two year commitment or one fifteen hundred show rogan episodes, except on a more micro scale, something you're doing within the structure. Don't give up on it until you have some criteria that you've defined to say that this is working, where this isn't working or needs to be adjusted. It is a completely an iterative process, like almost everything that we do in our lives. The other thing I want to say that that I really like about the aftershow in particular in the way that you thought about it, is that you know so much of the customer experience. Conversation is about company to customer, or you know employee to customer or customer to employee or customer to company or brand, and not enough of it is about customer to customer in a community sense. And how much can be learned by customers in conversation with each other, not even including the brand or the company or an employee? You don't need to supervise it, you don't need to guide it, you just let it happen. You may not even know what they're talking about and they may not be talking about you positively, but there's so much benefit to letting customers talk to customers and creating spaces and reasons and opportunities for people to do that. Two more quick questions about Corona TV. I said quick. I don't know that they're going to be but um, I would love just for you know, for the folks who listen to this role of...

...it's a transport epipad. What you're saying to me is joe on, so them quickly. Well, I don't know. I don't know. I want you to answer them in a way. Try. I will try. That's on us. To your experience, you know whether it's whether it's live synchronous video. Like you and I are conversing over zoom and then we'll release it, release the recording of it. By the way, if you want to see that planet fitness hat or clips of this conversation, we we trim this up and post them at Bombombcom podcast. We do short write ups of all of them who do five or six video clips. Of course you have the full embedded audio. We have a new audio player there that you can search for specific phrases. So if you ever listening to an episode like this one and you're like, oh my gosh, I want to go back to that moment where he talked about availability and I don't remember the availability heuristic, you can go to the player at Bombbcom podcast. In this one is, of course, episode one hundred and Twenty Five, and search availability heuristic or availability and will find it in that and you can listen to that section over again. So, anyway, because people are engaged in live conversations like we are, a lot of people are recording and sending video messages and these types of things. I would love for you to provide a little bit of guidance specific to being on camera. Do you do anything in particular to make it engaging for your viewers. Are you conscious about any of that or have any have any of your behavior changes come to mind in the way that you can engage viewers while you are on camera and or do you do anything particular to make it engaging for your guests? Like what are you doing consciously, whether it's with your body or your voice or your eye contact or anything else? What are you doing to make it engaging for viewers and what are you doing to make it engaging for your guests? So, wow, that's there's a lot to think about, because a lot of it is instinctive than and natural. So so not to overthink, I'll tell you one of the best things for me is is that my wife listens to every show, you know, and she gives me really good feedback. Now, I tell her, I push back and I get ready, you know, angry with all the time, but I know and she knows, that she's right about everything. So, as she always is, she knows you as well as anybody. But she tells me like she tells me sometimes what she doesn't like is sometimes I get to buddy buddy with my buddies. So, you know, I might be reminiscing with someone that I haven't seen in ten years, but it gets to esoteric. So by by engaging with the guests too much, I'm alienating and isolating the audience, the community, and vice versa. If I bring on you know, and and, Oh, look at Steve, and it's Tom and it's jolly and Bob says this and Bob says that, then at some point it gets too esoteric on few active commenters side. So balance is key. You know, I I'm up for anything. I'm game for anything. So I'll sing karaoke with a guest. I'll you know, I had a live Taro reading. You know, the ability to disarm your guest is important, all, or more important, I should say, to make them feel comfortable and at home, and the best way to do it is, you know, to smile right into and to pay him a compliment and to thank them. I mean these are and I don't do any of that gratuitously. Like one thing I found is is I really really get joy in really flattering my guest, really flattering them with what I think is deserved, you know, praise, because people don't people don't do that enough. It's so easy just to tell someone that you you know that you appreciate them or that you love them, or you know when you when I have guests on the show like you know Moresha Engel Bird it to it's about the Amori effect, all about love, the power of love. It's liberating as well. So there are little things you know and had tips, I think when when people,...

...for example, let's get practical, if somebody comments seventeen comments and you don't put them on screen, that's that's that's not a good feeling. Right. I will be on shows, I'll see shows streaming and I look on facebook and it says like for people are on. I don't care. But when I say hi there and it goes, Oh, look, Joseph Jeffe said hi, I feel like a million bucks. I feel like a million bucks because because someone said my name, someone acknowledged me, as opposed to, Oh my God, I just got mentioned on a show with a million people, who cares? You know, you got to reduce it down to its some cliss component part, which is connection. So it's connection, connection, connection, connection across the board, genuine, authentic, you know, connection because, as the old saying goes, and don't if I can, I swear a little bit, not sure. Well, I I've got a couple of e marks on some of the episodes. Yeah, well, I mean well, so that you don't have to put an Emilk, but you can't bull. You know something, a bull something, you know. Yeah, so it's like we are if we can strip out all the barriers between us. Something that David Meerman Scott said is right now you and I were four feet apart. We're actually about four feet apart. If we reached out right now, we could touch each other right we could give each other, we could technically shake hands or give each other a hug. That's how close to us. So there is an intimacy associated with this idea of within streaming and I think that's why maybe we're seeing so much of it grow right now and people that are watching feel that we are that close to them as well. So if you visualize that space and you respect that space, it's a very powerful, powerful connection that can result, and at scale right one too many? Yeah, so many good things there. I think the sincerity is really really key. This idea that that you take great pleasure in flattering people. But qualifier, it has to be sincere or else, and I think we can tell the difference. Your viewers can tell the difference, in your guests can tell the differences. So when it sincere, there's nothing better. And you're absolutely right. None of us, you know, despite gratitude, journaling and and you know how many books have been written over the past several centuries about, you know, compliments and saying thank you. It's the kind of thing that, if you're parented well, that you're trained to do, but still none of us does it enough. And I like the extra layer you that would that I inferred from what you said there, which is I appreciate you because I love you, because if you just provided a like a little bit additional reason, it's so much different than cheers or thank you at the end of an email that we all see, you know so often that it's almost meaningless. It is different when someone looks you in the eye and says thank you, I really, really appreciate what you did. But if you can add that because and make it truly personal to them, it makes someone's Day. Even the most hardcore Badass type a people that we know are desperate for what you were talking about, which is this need to be seen and heard and understood and an appreciate it as an individual human being. so much good stuff here. And by the way, I'll tell you very quickly. Every day off to the show ends, I send a thank you email to my guests. I could probably count on one hand the amount that have beaten me to it by thanking me before, because I do it that quickly. That's not a slide. I do it really quickly. I did within fifteen, twenty minutes of the off to show ending. In the email is the because right I say that, the subject is thank you and then I say something very personal associated with with the show and with them being on the show, and then I go here the download links and should you wish to promote it, here are some links and here the files, the files that you can cut up and slice and dice and use for your own purposes. That's important, not to promote me or my show or even your appearance on the show, but if there's a real great sound bite that makes you look good,...

...put that into your real or use that. Sometimes it's just you on camera. And then at the bottom and if you'd like to recommend any guess just all scripe. Often Times they won't even get to the bottom of the email, but they might and go, Oh, you should have this person on your show. So I love what you I'm doing it back to you now, right. I love the because if you on my show right now and this was the interview, I would have captured that moment. Is what I call the Coronaviryte, which is a sixty second highlight of the show, and I would call the highlight because dot dot dot, because it's the because if you've taken the time to thank them, that's eighty percent of the battle. But if you already ready want to, you know, clock that or hit that home run onto the dot, dot dot, because, yeah, it's the kind of thing that people will remember later in the day or later in the week or later in the month. I mean it creates this residual value because it happens so infrequently, even again for people get a lot of attention. Let's go really, really high level for just a minute. You know, you wrote life after the thirty and spot. I think it was your first book. You came out of traditional advertising. You're very familiar with television, as am. I spent a dozen years running marketing inside local TV stations. You were one of the people among several of the people I mentioned off the top that you've had on Corona TV who guided me through your early publishing online and books, to see the transition to digital in general, into social and particular, and you know, to this fragmentation, this idea that you know it anyway, that the kind of the breakdown of a lot of the the the business model around traditional broadcast, and I ended up writing a blog post about five and a half years ago called the shiny authenticity inversion, and it was this idea that, you know, back in the day, if you ran television ads, you immediately got trust because if you're a legitimate enough, big enough, big budget enough business to be able to run ads on television, it must be legitimate, you know, like so it was. It was trustworthy to be able to spend that kind of money. And now, you know, these big brands are doing the reverse, they're coming down market toward us, they're doing just a kind of air quoting here crappier photos and videos in order to become what we are now as publishers, which is more authentic, more there's no there's no mistaking the authenticity, in genuine nature of who you are and what you're doing, and yet you're equipped with these much more powerful tools that are much less expensive than ever before, from the cameras to Dream Yard and the switching between sources and bringing up graphics and all these things that he used to require control room, like the great like the monitors behind you, you know, in a traditional kind of bridemast, and my light just and my light just broke before we started as well, like I have one lamp that I don't know points up to the to the ceiling. But you know, you talked to talk to me about this inversion, like this idea of our ability to do this in the way that is coming together, the way that maybe the pandemic even forced, you know, reporters on national and international television to be, you know, broadcasting from their homes, and so now there's this parody between the multibillion dollar brands and you, as a solo guy, is like it's so much closer than ever. Just talked about maybe the implications or why that is or any thoughts you have about it. Yeah, I know, totally. A so Richard Owen, who actually is? He used to be the Sea of set metrics, which was the company that that that was behind the net promoter school and he's a good friend. He was on the show and it was in the office show any and never forget this sound bite. He basically said the amazing thing that's happening is you guys, you and all the fellows, streamies as I call them. You guys are just raising your game and raising the bar and getting better and better and better. But on the flip side, you've got I mean, he said, you've got all. You've got the felons and you've got the you know, you've got all of these traditional personalities and brands.

He's he's I think, ways were descending into Wayne's world and being shown up for their awkwardness and not and not necessarily in a good way. So he was basically talking about a leveling of the playing field. But ultimately their momentum was not growing whereas ours is now. I'm not taking that as a you know, self congratulatory or or self importance, but it's a fundamental change, which is we're moving forward and getting better and better at what we do. They're in a way going through a massive transition. Will we go back to the live show audience and the canned laughter, you know, and and the overproduced stick. You know, will that be authentic? Will that be what the audience wants and needs and responds to? And my feeling is, yeah, of course they'll be. Are there, we are place for everyone. But that's the difference, and I think you nailed it as well, which is recognizing that. I mean, I don't think this is even conjecture. I don't think any of them will say I think the way that we did at during Covid, the worst of Covid, is how we should be doing it when things get back to normal. They cannot wait to get back to normal. But what is normal anymore? Normal isn't over produced and controlled anymore. Normal is warts and all flaws. I look this my green screen malfunctioned. I am just like you. You are just like me. So I think that's that's it's so astute. What what what you're talking about? And that's why I think people should realize that this is the way life is. This is a an analogy that is perfect for life. The barriers to entry on non existent, but to actually grow it and scale it and make it that's hard. That's really, really hard. So this is a marathon or an ultramarathon. Or an extreme ultramarathon, not a sprint, but anybody can just do it. Anybody can just you know, you don't even need shoes. You could just bare foot start to run, to use that analogy. But over time, if you really want to be a world beader, you got to put in your tenzero hours and you have to raise your game. But the good news is that I think momentum is on our side. And I'll just say one more thing, which is, you know, I I want to in two thousand and twenty one, which we're in right now, develop a new presentation, probably write a new book, maybe even develop a training program or a workshop simply called how I reinvented myself during a global pandemic, and you can too. And the goal is to, you know, hold nothing back, every single tip, tool, trick, software, hardware in a box. Just be able to deliver it tactically, but strategically and conceptually, from a motivational standpoint, just walk people. You know, someone said this to me the other day. They said everyone is talking about pivoting and how they need to pivot, and the word, the marketing word of the You and two thousand and twenty was pivot. You did it, you've done it, you're continuing to do it. I want to tell that story to people. And one of the pivots, by the way, is that the name of the show will change. So my deadline to change the name is the one you anniversary. But as someone said to me the other day, they said, I mean it was just a very, you know, very crest or, not crass, but you know, just very stark point. They said it's like calling your show nine eleven tv, you know, Corona TV, and I was like, but a corona, it's a beer, it's a crown, it's like that, like and I went and searched for the wood corona on Google. I didn't see anything about rings of light and right, or even beer. So that's another pivot, right, which is not getting so attached to a name or even a format that I can't...

...detach and let it go. CAST so good. You could. You could always fall back to where you were a dozen years ago when you started on Youtube is, I think it was jaffee juice TV. Okay, so this has been awesome. I got to let you go because you have a show, you have a life showed to put together. But folks who were listening. I you know I we obviously went a little bit long on this one and so you've obviously enjoyed your time with Joseph. You would also love episode for which we mentioned off the top. Is Your company built to last or built to suck? Episode for the Customer Experience Podcast, a few others with mutual guests of ours. Episode Sixty of this show with Matt sweezy the Context Marketing Revolution. Episode Sixty three you mentioned David Merman Scott. We talked about Fandom, we talked about human connection, we talked about video in that psychological connection built two feet away from the camera, which is four feet away from each other, which is within social distance to bond with other humans even through cameras. And more recently, episode one hundred and twenty two with Brittany HOHODAC, about super fans and building super fandom. Before I let you go, could you give a mention to a person who's had a positive impact on your life or your career and the company, your brand that you respect for the experience they deliver for you as a customer? So no, because I want to say three things quickly to you, and one is I love how you said. You talked about respecting your your view a. You just did that by saying you're obviously enjoying this interview because you're people are still watching at this point. They clearly all enjoying this. So I love how you you know, you didn't do it in a selfdeprecating way, which is well, if you're, you know, a massocrest and still watching at this point, you know, you didn't apologize. You just said, well, you know, you're here because you want to be here. So I like that. The second thing is I would tell people, but I'm going to do it as well. I'm going to go back and watch episode four because I want to see how I've changed between four, one hundred and twenty five. I want to see how promotional or self promotional I wis. I just want to see. That's the beauty of video. You actually have this live, you know, accounting of your life. That's that's why that you know, they call it live streaming, but it's it's also life streaming. So that's a second point that I wanted to make as well. Now I own third point. Little tip for people on Zoom. This also came through my show. There's a thing called self view, take it off. So I'm not looking at myself right now, I'm only looking at you. So hide selfew when you're on zoom, and that's a great way as well, just to focus on the person you're talking to and be much more present. So you know people and companies. I mean it's very, very simple when it comes to people, and it's not gratuitous. It's you, it's all of my guests, it's my community, it's I'm shaped by and I'm part of. You know, always said this, that that the big problem, even enjoying the conversation. The brand doesn't live in the middle. I don't live in the milk. No one lives in the middle and nothing is in the middle. We're just part of this liquid, you know, malleable, you know blob that keeps shifting and changing and it's not about you know, the sun is in the middle and everyone revolves around it as well. But I also recognize my role in that, and so I'm eternally grateful for this opportunity to come back on your show. I am, I really really I have grown so much and learned so much from each and every guest, even the bad, the bad shows. You need bad shows, because otherwise how would you know what a good show is? And in terms of, you know, companies out there, I mean I could give you a I'm still a marketer at the end of the day and we've seen so many marketers just lose their way and brands lose their way and just, you know, just absolutely come up with tonedeaf messaging. But Nike has always been a company close to me and my heart. I remember saying I wanted to dedicate one of my books by saying...

...to Nike, because of the Mantra, just do it, my am I. and Whiley said they mixed it because they said it was too promotional, I said they're not paying for it. I just you know, even you know, when we came through so much of the stress and the strain of this year, going through a lot of unrest, and you know, there was only company that could come out with a message and be true to themselves and talk about the power of not just uniting and uniting through differences but also, you know, kind of embracing that diversity and, quite frankly, the role that support is always played to bring people together. So that would be my answer. Awesome if people want to follow up on this. Where would you send them? I don't even know anymore. I guess you can follow me on Pelleton. I just got a pelleton bike, so I'll do video chat with people that. That's my new thing, is doing video chat with people while I'm like dying on the bike. I'm still at Jaffee juice on on all the socials. And you know, every day the show is live at twelve on facebook, Youtube, linkedin periscope, which is closing down but will be twitter a guests again. So live on those four platforms and I would I would love if people would subscribe to the show on my youtube channel, Corona TV door show, and if they are so inclined, I do a weekly newsletter which is now completely aligned with the show. So what I do is I preview the upcoming weeks guests. I actually give links to all the show the previous week shows, with a little synopsis and the Corona Bryte, and then I provide all of the the I provide the corona question. That's a new thing. So I ask all my guests the same corona question. I stitch that together and then all of my seated soliloquies and if you're in North America. Just text the word Corona TV to six six eight, six six and subscribe to the new satter. So that's that's me. Thank you for the thank you for the opportunity to promote the show. Yeah, you're welcome by again it. As I said before and as you were kind enough to point out, if someone's listening right now, they really enjoyed this. You know you'll keep listening. If you're not, if you're not engaged, so I think you'd be occupy Lobo on it. And if you start a show, if you're listening right now and you start a show and you want me to come on the answers. Yes, awesome. Just just mentioned that you saw me on this show today. Awesome. I will link all this up, as I mentioned, bombombcom slash podcast video clips, all of the social references, the linked to Corona TV and the details on texting, which I'll have to watch the recording in order to type up into the blog post. It's Corona Tiv to six six eight hundred sixt six. Yeah, yeah, see, okay, I'm pretty good. All right, thank you so much. I bid you a great rest either your day continued success on the route to two years. I look forward to what you'll be doing six months and twelve months from now. I really enjoyed it and I'm glad we could do it and thank you. I love being on the show. Anytime you want me back, I will be back. Awesome, sounds good. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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