The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 132 · 1 year ago

132. Bringing Empathy Back to Cold Emails w/ Jason Bay


The last cold email you received probably made you feel disengaged at best. It’s also the reason why the average cold email response rate is 1%.

In this episode, I interview Jason Bay, Chief Prospecting Officer at Blissful Prospecting, about bringing empathy back to the sales process.

We also talked about:

- The 2 sales enablement fails and what should replace them

- The REPLY method for cold emailing

- The next wave of video and his video strategy

- Long form content vs. bite-sized content

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:


- Jason Bay on LinkedIn

- Proposify

- Apple

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I think of empathy and I think of how are we putting ourselves in the shoes of our customers or on the receiving end of it it? How do I feel like this experience is really tailored to what it feels like to be me going through their customer journey? The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. The average cold email response rate one percent. The average success rate for a cold call one and a half percent. That's a high failure rate and a lot of rejection, and that's why many people feel that prospecting is a Bedr or SDR is one of the toughest jobs in sales and in business. Today's guest is chief prospecting officer at blissful prospecting. With a job title and a company name like that, I know he's got insights to make prospecting better, both for your sales reps and for your customers for a better employee experience and a better customer experience. He built his career through several sales and marketing leadership rolls before heading out to run his own training and consulting firm, which he's done for nearly seven and and a half years now. He sold house painting services door to door, he's run outbound call centers and he's helped hundreds of people master cold outreach. Jason Bay, Jay Bay, welcome to the customer experience podcast. I'm excited for this man. We've been talking a lot over the last couple of months, so I finally get a turn to let you do all the question asking. Yeah, good, it's a move. Has Some really good conversations and I do like I do like being on this side of the conversation, kind of guiding it and really learning more from you. So, before we get going, just to the listener. You know, you may be thinking I don't do prospecting or I'm not responsible for that. We all do cold outreach. We all need or want something from someone we don't know well or don't know at all. We all have questions, requests, opportunities. Some of the things you're going to learn here in this conversation are going to be very useful to you, even if you're not in a bdr str or any kind of sales roll. So, with that said, before we get going, Jason blissful. It's a very it's I like the choice. Why blissful? This is interesting. I mean when we started blissful prospecting, when I talk to businesses about how they prospect, you know, this is when I was more doing like broad consulting, just like lead generation, which included the prospecting marketing type of stuff. When people talked about prospecting, there is this immediate like, Oh, yeah, you know, we don't like doing that. Oh Yeah, and I know we should do more of it, you know, kind of thing. And I was like, well, what's the opposite of...

...that? Because my wife, Sarah and I started the company together. She doesn't work in that company anymore due to her choice. I didn't kick her out or anything weird like that, but it's like what's the opposite of that, you know, blissful, and then I we thought a lot about well, what does that mean? Because I don't want to make it sound like prospecting is like doing yoga, that you're going to be super relaxed as you do it and it's going to feel great afterwards. The thing that I saw missing was like process. There was like process missing and there was a lot of reluctance to prospect because people didn't have a process. In a lot of companies approach prospecting like that were sales. There's so many frameworks are and how to do a good discovery, call on a demo and like what the sales process looks like. But when you look in the CRM, the stage is before like opportunity and like introduction or whatever your first opportunity is, is like pursuing. There's like one stage for prospecting. So giving people a process behind that, I find, gives them more of a relaxed like you know, I can work the process, you know, and I have a framework for how to find people that are a good fit, how to start conversations with them, how to handle objections in a way that doesn't feel super salesy and sleazy. So that's kind of where the blissful part came from. Is Like I'm going to feel a lot better about doing this, even though it's not the easiest thing to do, if I have a process that feels good to me that I feel comfortable, confident and and that sort of thing me and so much good stuff there, and I bet that applies to so many aspects of our well businesses, but also to our lives. Is like, you know, when we leave it a little bit shapeless. It that's that's where a lot of the anxiety comes from. And so I have a bunch follow up questions, but we'll we'll probably fold those as we go I'm going to start with start here where we always start, which is customer experience. When I say that, what does that mean to you? Customer experience? To me, I know it's a buzz word right now and I hate that it's a buzz word, but I think of empathy and I think of how are we putting ourselves in the shoes of our customers or on the receiving end of it? How do I feel like this experience is really tailored to what it feels like to be me going through their customer journey? And there's companies that do it really well. Obviously there's a lot of companies, probably more companies, unfortunately, that don't do it well, but the ones that do it really well are anticipating what they think that I'm feeling, and it's little simple stuff, Ethan, like if I had to send an email to a company because I had trouble logging in and it wouldn't reset my password. Just a simple Oh, ethan, that must be so frustrating, like you haven't been able to log into your account like all day. That's that's not acceptable. Let's get this figured out for you. Just something very little like that, versus, Oh, did you try resetting the password? Yeah, I tried that, man, come on, you know, just the little how's this person feeling? Let me just like talk to that. I'm really on this kick right now with prospecting in the same applies with customer experience just or across the board, and it's people don't need an apology as much as they need acknowledgement. They just need to be acknowledged so that they don't feel crazy for...

...being really frustrated. You need to validate that, empathize, validate, make sure that that's a normal feeling and make sure they know that you're thinking about how frustrating or whatever that emotion is, like really thinking about the emotions. So empathy is really, to me, what it's all about. So good, and I like both layers that you offered there, the one where we're going to anticipate how someone might be feeling or what they're going through at this point, right in whatever aspect of the experience they're involved in or whatever stage, and then also, whether things go good or bad, this idea of validating how they might be feeling at the time. I'm thinking of that primarily in a reactionary way. So this this proactive and reactive quality to empathizing with people to make them feel like they're in a healthy relationship. So good. How you you mentioned that it's a Buzzword, and absolutely it is. How in touch, would you say? Just you're much more in touch with today's kind of modern sales culture that I am, although I'm certainly along for the ride there. How much do you think people are thinking about customer experience, like the broader customer experience and their effect on customer experience in a prospecting or early sales stage? Roll? Oh Man, that's such an interesting question to answer because you know, we spend a lot of time on Linkedin, right you, and you and I both create a lot of content, and you got this kind of Echo Chamber going in there, where your perceptions of things, based off of how it is in Linkedin, don't quite represent how it is like for most companies in my experience. So I see a lot of people talking about empathy on Linkedin and you I post about it and people are like Oh, yeah, yeah, but in practice, especially with companies outside of tech, I find that very few companies have this as a part of their culture. And it's everything from how a manager interacts with a rap when they're giving them coaching and it's doing a call breakdown and listening to the cold call and saying, Ethan, let's go in and pose right here. I'm really curious. What do you think that prospect is thinking right now, like, what do you think's going through their head? Well, I don't know what. Okay, let's re listen to it. Let's listen to that. First fifteen seconds you introduced yourself and then you went into what what our company does and you started kind of pitching that. Listen really closely to their town what they say. Like just just guess, like what do you think they're feeling? And it's always like well, they seem kind of bored, they seem tuned out whatever, and like that part I see missing in most companies. And again it's small sample size because I'm working with these companies. They obviously brought me in because they have a problem. But the experience I have across the board with companies where I work with three reps and companies where I've worked with like a hundred fifty other reps, is it's all the same. I think we have so much going on, especially as sales leaders and managers, where we don't think about this stuff, and the reason that's a problem... I feel like in this kind of circles back to what we talked about before, is if you can make this a part of your identity to where this becomes bigger than like teaching a rep how to have more empathy for their prospects. It becomes how do you have more empathy just for other people, because if you make this a habit in your personal life, which I did not have like as little as like a year and a half, two years ago, like the way that I learned this was going to therapy, especially couples therapy, and realizing like I thought it was such a good listener, because I've been in sales like my entire career and like I suck at listening actually, because I'm not even thinking about as Ethans talking to me. What's he feeling like? What's his take on this? Like how does he feel like this frustrating thing that this customer went through, like what would it be like to be them in the situation? I just wasn't thinking a lot like that. I was thinking tactics and techniques, you know, to sell to them. So it's kind of a long way to answer to your question, but I think it's missing and I think it's it needs to be bigger than just how to do it to improve your prospect and needs to be like how do we just become better human beings and like really understand our spouses, our friends, our parents, are family, are Co Workers? It helps bottoms up and tops down, it helps leaders lead their people better and it helps people be a better employee, you know. So that's that's where I think it that that's the big part that I see missing. Yeah, so much good stuff there. I especially like this this idea that, you know, the way that we think about, treat approach serve our team members is going to significantly impact the way they do that with our customers and potential customers. In addition, this idea that being a more whole and more complete and more thoughtful person transcends the role and certainly transcends any activities in the context of that role to making your life a bit more fulfilling and satisfying. It's so good. I just I've been thinking a lot about those themes as well. As you know that this line, certainly the pandemic drove a lot of it, this line between, you know, our personal lives and our professional lives. For those of us who didn't always work at home, it was a dramatic change in it like brought some of that wall down a little bit. And then, of course, the relationship between customer experience and employee experience and how we're investing in people. And really be curious. I'll follow where I wanted to go, because it does. It does pick up kind of where you were there. There's all of these tactics, tools, technology, reporting that needs to be done, potentially scripts to follow or to customize. In that context. How have you seen people successfully keep the focus on the customer and not on I need to do this and then do that and click this and then follow this thing. And do you know, we are systemized seeing or systematizing all of this stuff and there's a lot of tech and a lot of movements and things that need to be done so that the date is collected properly so we can analyze it properly. And there're things that were supposed to say...

...and there things were not supposed to say, and there are the right words in the right order, but you can modify them a little bit. Like there's just so much to keep track of, I imagine in most of these roles. How have you seen anyone be successful in keeping the other person top of mind in light of all of that? So there's like a I love that question. There's like a kind of a couple ways that I look at it. I look at a kind of, kind of like from a teaching standpoint of like how would your leadership train like your people on this? And what I think of is a format that you my business coaches use and it's called format, actually the number four and then Mat. It's not an acronym, which is, I think, a total waste, but but it's a it's a way that you know, teachers build curriculum and it's based on a very simple philosophy of why, what? How? So a lot of the ways that people train and coach their team is it's it's one of two things. Usually it's extremely why oriented. So Theory, Oh, here's why it's important to be empathetic and like you guys do have more empathy. Go Get it right, let me know how it goes. And then there's the big gap of what does that look like and feel like in practice? Exactly so. And then the other part that I see to this is kind of like this. Let's skip the theory. Let me just give you the tactics, e. Then let me just give you the talk track, because these exactly towards worked for all of our other top reps and if you say this, it's going to work really well. And then now what you're completely what you're doing is like you're robbing your team's, or that reps individual ability to be resourceful. And as people were incredibly resourceful, right, especially sales people of all people are incredibly resourceful. So when you rob someone's ability to be resourceful, you're robbing the entire system that you're using of like improvement, because it's the people executing on this system. That are going to improve it. So from a teaching standpoint, I think you really need to think about why is this important? What should they be doing? What are the bullet points? And let's give them practical house in terms of like what that looks like and then let's coach around that in terms of the like the individual. And this kind of ties into the teaching part as well, as I'm thinking like if we look at a cold call, I like at it in three stages. There's the Intro, there's the hook and then there's the close. So when we're teaching this, the INTRO, I'm not saying, Hey, your goal is too pattern interrupt the prospect. That's completely me center. That's focused on what I'm going to do to the prospect, which is almost like dehumanizes them in a way, and instead what I'm going to do is like, Hey, what I want the prospect to feel in the first ten or fifteen seconds of getting this call? I want them to feel like it's not a random telemarketer calling them. I want them to feel like this person actually like is calling me intentionally, like they're doing this on purpose. So it wasn't just in some sort of dialer where I just happen to be the name of the number that popped up right. So I want them to feel that the hook. What do I want them to feel there? Oh, I want them to feel like I understand their business and noticed a few things going on in...

...their business that they might not be aware of. But I'm calling with the intention of help. I want them to feel like I'm trying to help them. Now, I'm not trying to tell them how to do business their way. I'm not trying to sell them anything, and that's a whole nother topic for another time, because I think people are going too far and though you're not selling, you're helping. Well, yeah, you're selling stuff. Is a salesperson. Let's let's be real, like you are selling things to people that need it, that can use your help. But let's not like sugarcoat what we're doing. We are selling stuff to people, and then you got the clothes. The goal is not to like, Oh, I need to book a meeting. No, I get I need the prospect to like want to talk to me further, because there's like a little bit of a Cliffhan or so, if you teach the process in a way that is customer centric, where you're thinking about how you want the other person to feel. I use the cold call as an example. If you engineer the process and teach it in that way, that's going to build this internal culture of like you go to coach r revenue say hey, how that call go and they say stuff like this, Oh, I think the prospect wasn't really engaged because, you know, I didn't really ask very good questions, and they're thinking about the prospect instead of yeah, I know, I didn't use the opening that we're supposed to do. I didn't pattern interrupt, like they're talking more about what the other person instead of about what they did. Yes, really, really good. I think this. It's such a small shift to think about how do I want someone to feel instead of what am I supposed to do here? And it makes all of the difference in the world and it's so interesting. I mean it means each person can only outcome a little bit more. I just reread a book that was written in one thousand nine hundred and seventy three. It was kind of an economics human centricity type book, and he talked about the tension of order and creativity, and so the order is this, you know, what are the stages of the call and what are some ways we could approach it? But this creativity is kind of like the rehumanizing component for the rep and for the recipient. It allows for that learning, growth and flexibility and when you try something out in your like for four with it, it just seems to be really effective and people are responding well. You feed it back into the system and you can learn together and all this stuff. It's it's I really like that flip there. You mentioned the cold call. Does this same structure and does the same mindset apply equally well in your experience, to say a cold email or even a cold video message? Oh absolutely, yeah. So, like the way that I teach cold email is I start by showing people cold emails. So I open up my inbox. Is really fine. I'll do this in training calls and I have a folder with cold emails and I'm like Hey, you guys, the purpose here is not to shame these folks. I just want you to see cold emails that I get, and I don't get very many even compared to like probably you get Ethan right, like being a leader at a a a decent sized company or some of these even other big company were people getting hundreds of emails per week and you look at all those emails, like what do you guys notice? How do you think they make me feel? When I get an email that says I want to talk with you, you know, is how it the first part of it starts out, or the email starts off.

My name is Jason Bay and I'm with postful prospect. I was like, how do you make think? That makes me feel, you know. Well, one I kind of tune out because that's like what I see, you know, but it doesn't really show me that they have any interest in like actually helping me. They're just it's very me centered, you know. So it makes me disengage. And that's where we start with the emails. So it's the same kind of thing. It's like what do we want the person to feel like with a subject line, for example, one of the things that be lawal bitrowy, really cool dude. I don't know if you follow any of his stuff, but you guys got to go check them out on Linkedin. He's a good friend. He's into the like very provocative messaging. So I'll give you an example, like with a subject line, you think, like when someone sees your email, what do you want them to feel? It doesn't necessarily have to be like Oh, they feel really like joy and like they're so happy. No, like, that's not the saily probably going to get someone to open an email. You could make someone's like make them even like a little irritated, right. So in a subject line you could do something like Hey Ethan, it's not fair or Hey Ethan, it's complicated, right, or that could just be the subject line. It's not fair. Someone's probably going to open up that email, right, and the whole email could be around, like we have a client that helps other companies capture tax credits. So use as an example. So the whole email is like hey, it's not fair, right. Subject Line. The email centered around like, hey, it's not fair that only seventeen percent of small businesses that qualify for tax credits actually take advantage of them because the government makes it so complicated to understand if you qualify or not, like we're here to help you level the playing field so that you can continue competing with those fortune one thou companies out there. Would it be a bad idea if I sent over some ideas around ways in activities that you guys might qualify for. Like an email like that just it works really well, but it doesn't like make the person feel super happy. That's not how I would describe how they feel. It's almost like this fearing feeling of like oh you like I don't know if you ever got an email like that. You see the subject line, Oh, you know, like am I in trouble kind of thing. You open like it wasn't like completely misleading. It like connects here and it gets me like intrigued and like I'm leaning in a like interested. So the same kind of thing applies with emails and what you're thinking about this. That's the sort of central theme here is really one based around user experience. So think of like a product team, right. How are they engineering the experience of using bombomb? It's super intentional, like how they engineer that experience and they think a lot about you know, anytime they design products, like one of the first things they do is like the first stage is like empathy, like what's it going to feel like using this? Who are the people using it? Do that same exercise. What's it like for someone to be on the receiving end of a cold email or a cold call or a video and how can I just engine or something that's different than that? It's not as complicated as you would think. No, two things I really enjoyed about that. Example you shared one that company came alongside. They're not like it immediately takes off this kind of adversarial Predator prey, you know, target salesperson, kind...

...of potentially adversarial relationship and it's just like hey, we we don't think this is fair. We probably we expect you probably don't think this is fair either. And the other thing, and that I really liked about it is that it's this kind of yes or no piece. It's not do you want to skill, let's schedule a meeting right now. It's like, would you like to learn more? But does this seem like it would be of interest to this idea of asking about interest rather than asking someone to do something in particular. It's just so much easier to respond to as well. A lot of really good stuff there. What do you think about video in general, video and prospecting, video and sales, likely lightweight, casual video messaging. Where do you think we are with it? What do you think it's potential is? Where have you seen it go good or bad. Just in any any thoughts you have around it? Yeah, I'd love videos and medium and I feel like we're just barely skimming the surface of the potential of it. Okay, I know it's like there's a lot of people out there that talk about video, but I don't know about you. I really get a video in a prospecting email rarely, and you know where eighty percent of them come from when I connect with people at Bot Haf, you right, always good a customized video from what I connect on Linkedin, even if they reached out to me not even to sell me anything, just to say, Hey, I like your content, you know. Yeah, so I think it's highly underutilized and we could talk about all those reasons. But the the I think the next phase of video. It's what we're starting to do with a lot of our customers. Just like how do you do more than the hey, my name's Jason, put in a face to the video. That works well. Another component of this is like how can you visualize like the story that you're telling them or the problem that you found? So, for example, if you have a way to kind of mystery shop or go through the user experience, of the company that you're reaching out to capture that on a video. Hey Ethan, I was on your website and I started a chat with them and one thing that I noticed is it took about twelve hours for me to actually get a response back. I'm not sure if that's normal and that I'm sure things are really crazy right now. And you flip over the tab one of your competitors, when I noticed that, engage with then. They had all these interesting ways to get like a quicker response and I want to just share some of the things that we're doing with them, and you're open for a quick chat. It's like you're showing them what the problem is and you're doing like one of the most old, like school, but yet highly effective messaging techniques out there. There's an old way and there's a new way. Right there's a before and there's an after, like that is the most old messaging framework that you could possibly use. That is very effective. I think that's the next wave of a video is how do you visually show something to someone, because people are such a visual B learners, most people. How do you get them to be like okay, cool, got it, like I got it, yeah, and reps do this where they'll send like a three minute video even, but the video is like Hey, I notice these problems on these things, and here's why I think it's a problem. They're like educating the prospects through the video in a way that's customized to them, and any VPC level is going to respond really well to that. When you...

...can make that business case and you can visually show it to they're going to be fording at all over. So that's that's like the next wave of video that I think that people are really going to gravitate towards. So smart screen recording maybe combined with some popping out for a full screen you and it could be something that you're showing live or could be something that you've captured. You can structure the story and you may be designed a repeatable process so you can do it for other people to really clever use case. I want to ask you something that's totally you may tie them together. It seems unrelated to where we've been so far. You know, I spend some time, of course, on your website and one of the things that I love about it, a lot of really good things about it, but one of the things I really love is that you're doing book summaries, you're summarizing some of the you've summarize some of the books that you've read and I just wondering. You know, you're obviously a learner, you're obviously a teacher, you're obviously a reader. What do you think the future of long form content like books is, and maybe for people who aspire to read more? When and how do you fit books into your into your week or your day or your month? I've never been asked this before. I love talking about stuff like this. Long form content is definitely here to stay, but I think people need to be a little more I think they need to make it easier to access. So, in other words, I have a guide on my website called the reply method and it's a really, really long guide around the framework that we use for cold email. Now I could gate that and make it a white paper, but how many fewer people would actually look at that? A lot fewer, because I've tested it is. You know, I get that, like as a marketer, your need to capture contact information to remark it to people, but don't do that at the cost of someone getting a good enough taste of what your stuff is to like become a fan of it. So I think with long form content it's being more open to give people access to it and then make a cheat sheet out of that and they let them download that. So I think it's like thinking more longtail. I think books are definitely here to stay. The benefit of a book is that you can get all of these ideas together. It's no different than a course or a company paint me to do a training with them. It's like, yeah, you could take all the free stuff, which like eighty ninety percent of my stuffs there, or you could have me come in and customize it for you and run me run you through like in a linear fashion, like steps a through Z. It's very organized for you to like learn it. So I don't think long form contents going anywhere. Joe Rogan, whatever you think of him, his a threehour long episodes and he's the most popular podcast in the world. I believe people listen to it because the contents good. So to me, like it's about the quality of the content, and that's the thing I worry about with books right now is it's too easy to self publish a book. But I also like that too. You know, I like it. It's like because that's like my first book is going to be a self published book, and we've talked about you know, sort of run ideas by it. But think about like artists and music, like the whole content consumption is because,... the powers starting to be go into the People's hands, which I'm a huge fan of, but it does create more clutter. Great. So I don't think long form contents going anywhere. That's that's the answer to that. In terms of like reading, this is something I kind of go through spurts with. I think that there's a couple things that I've adopted over the last like maybe ten years that have like really helped me get more out of the reading that I do. One Chris Brogue, and I think is his name. Yep, what one time he's like, Dude, if you read the first chapter of a book and you don't like it, you don't have to finish it, and I'm like, Oh, oh yeah, novel, like I don't and I was like one of those people that was like really susceptible to sunk cost fallacy with content. Oh Man, I've already invested an hour into this resource, I might as well finish it right. So if you give yourself permission to not like something and just be okay with that, I think that's great. The second thing, too, is I was really big with I had to have the physical copy of everything. HMM, and I'm not kidding with you, Ethan I had before we moved here to Austin. I had like four big book shelves full of books and I hadn't read maybe two thirds of them, and it just like I would just buy the book, like you know, if it was something I was going to read in the next two or three years, I would just buy and drove my wife crazy. She made me sell all of them before we moved here to Austin, which I like, which is a huge blessing, because I think like adopting more of like an on time consumption of information versus like just in case, is really like only read stuff when you want to learn about that thing and if it's relevant, it's going to help you right now, that's going to motivate you to continue reading. It shouldn't have to like schedule reading time, you know what I mean, like it should be on something you're interested that will be helpful for you. It's sort of my thinking. So I think like that. And then also another thing that we're doing, I think a lot of people don't think about, is this is just a really great way to, you know, not only support your public libraries, but you pay taxes for it. anyways, almost any popular book out there is going to have a copy at the library and they even have the ability to rent it through kindle. It's I don't even have to go to the library or rent a book, and there's part of it that just creates this interesting kind of deadline for you because you can only rent it for three weeks at a time. So it's like you have this like kind of artificial deadline to read it and if you don't like it, it doesn't cost you any money and it's not wasteful in the least bit possible if you don't like it. So I think like kind of removing the barriers and being okay with like not liking something and moving on from it would be my advice. Other than that, I think kindle. I love reading kindle on my phone because I I'm like one of these people will have to share you sometime. I just like the reason why I write those books. Some reasons I have notes files on my computer where I take notes on every single book that I read. Like I don't want to have to read a second time unless it's really good. So I like reading it on the phone because the kindle I can just flip back and forth and copy and paste and just drop in in a notes. I think having an easy way to take notes on your books like that's so much more important that you read the book and you retain the information and get some sort of use out of it then to just read books. So a...

...lot of people like that to they just read books every day and I'm like, well, okay, what was your biggest take away from that book? Oh, I don't I don't really know. Is a good book, though. It's like, okay, that's fun. If your leisure reading, I guess right. are like personal development type stuff or stuff that will help you with sales. I'm assuming you're reading that, so it'll help you do your job better. Yeah, tons of good tips in there. I started going to my local library website before I started going to Amazon when I would learn about a book I wanted to read. I still read a lot in print, but I read with a pencil and then I open up I create separate Google docs for each book and and re type my notes. I go back through all of it and then I use that as a resource going for so much good stuff there. I'm glad I asked. As you are listening to this and you're enjoying it, I want to tell you about two other episodes. The you might like episode one hundred and eighteen with ernest a Woosu, senior director of sales development at six cents. He leads the BDR SDR team there, and we call that the three Cs that make or break the str experience. That's one hundred and eighteen with ernest to Wusu, and earlier episode seventy one, with Ed Briyalt, who's the CMO at a premo. He's a CMO, but he also has BDR SDR reporting to him, and we call that one differentiating your brand by humanizing the experience. So episodes one hundred and eighteen and episode seventy one. Before I let you go, Jason, I love to give you the chance to think or mentioned someone who's had a positive impact on your life or career and a brand or company you appreciate for the experience they deliver for you as a customer. Yeah, the person I'd have to think my my wife, Sarah. There's been so many ways that she's like pushed me that like in my personal life, that have helped so much in my business life. And two quick examples would be one like really pushing me to like think about like raising my expectations just in every way who I spend time with. I'm like what I went through, like when we met in two thousand and sixteen, we got married in two thousand and seventy. We get married very quickly. We've been married for I think almost four years now, in July or five. Don't quote me on that, but the like almost every relationship I had with every single person in my life, including my family and parents, like everything kind of shift. It was really interesting and made me really think about like raising my expectations of myself and like all that other stuff. And then the other thing, and I haven't finished reading this book, but there's a really good book on listening called you're not listening, and she was like you need to read this book, and she's really pushed me to become a better listener, which is helped me so much in my in my practice. You know, be becoming a better coach, trainer, better friend, son, sibling, soon to be father, hopefully in the next couple of years, and you like that kind of stuff. So I'd have to give her a shout out. And then, in terms of like best customer service experience, there's a couple of companies that come to mind. One of them is a company called proposify. So they're a competitor of panda Docs. They just they've had such a great I've I've been with them since it was like ten dollars a month to use their tool, so it's been like a long time and they just have had such great like interactions,... all the empathy stuff I've talked about. And then there's a behemouth company that comes to mine, Apple. I mean just interacting with them is so nice, like I just like texting them. When something doesn't work, you immediately get that Oh man Ethan, that must be so frustrating that you can't log into your itunes account. Let let me help you out, like let's get this figured out for you. Sound like a deal. Yeah, and it's like the whole communication and like follow up is just so nice. And I've never really interacted with their customer service prior to this year. It's been such a pleasant surprise. I just didn't expect that from such a big company. It's awesome. That is, I think, the second, maybe third apple reference and it's a good one. Thank you for sharing all three of those. And he is Jason Bay Bea. Why. You can find him on Linkedin, blissful Prospectingcom any place else you would send people to follow up on this. Yeah, we talked about reply myth that I put together like a one page like pdf for you guys too. It's at blissful Prospectingcom Ethan and you go there. The reply method is essentially a framework for how to structure your cold emails. It's an acronym. There's like a one pitch cheat sheet that you can grab to with like what to include in your email, where to include it, some examples and all that good stuff if you want to grab it. Awesome. Thank you so much for putting that together. That's blissful prospectingcom Ethan. This the first, I think that's the first time I first game's been used in a url in that way. I appreciate it. I appreciate your time here and I hope you have an awesome afternoon. Yeah, thank you for having me on. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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